: If you had to rework your own main.. How would you do it?
{{champion:105}} I'd change Fizz into the premier AP bruiser of League. Lower the damage and cooldown of his E so he is probably the most mobile champ in the game. Maybe also lower the untargetability time to like half a second. Take away any base damage on his q and lower his base AD so its cooldown can be lowered as well. His W would be changed to something similar to its old function of empowering his autos when it was active. No more of the current iteration where it crits after cooking a few seconds. It doesn't have to be percent health damage but I'd like that. His ult is fine. He would be an auto attack focused bruiser with HUGE mobility. Because of this I would want him to have very low base stats defensively. His play style would focus on evading damage as opposed to just soaking it up. The rework would really focus on enforcing his identity as the nimble fighter. Deleting people would be a thing of the past and he'd actually get to have a skill ceiling higher than my knees.
: Where does AD Tank Fizz's Damage Come From?
His q applies all on-hit effects and 100% of his AD. Its basically an auto attack that turns into a targeted dash with an ap ratio for good measure. His W is an auto attack reset with hefty base damage and good scaling when he lands the active correctly. All of this means that he synergizes quite well with anything that builds out of sheen. He also gets a lot of mileage early game out of dark seal due to his high scalings. Honestly, his kit fits a fighter more than it fits an assassin which means people will build him as such when they can get away with it. If you're up for some cheese, Garen works quite well into fizz. The silence screws him over in a big way.
: > [{quoted}](name=Dirty Jhin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iUmgRGAg,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-05-17T00:49:11.157+0000) > > Because in Platinum everyone goes for the risky plays still. Ex. Jungle trying to consistently invade instead of the safer choice: farming and ganking. Exactly. Especially mid game where one mistake can turn the game around. I've lost so many games by just someone dying randomly on the map (well including myself too) and then the enemy capitalizing on that mistake. (Nash etc) I'm feeling like you have to play mid game close to perfect in order to win it later. Throws are too often and so punishable.
Oriana, Sion, and Wukong are great for the unexpected cheese at that level. Plat has probably the widest variance in skill between the players residing in it, making it the true elo hell for many. You are also correct on the bad decision making mid game. Diving and stomping works quite well until you get to around plat were people know how to land a stun or something.
: Stop making champions
Agreed, they could relocate the new champ team to the map skins dept. I'd like more of those.
: Fizz changes wont change a godamn thing you made him even worse heres why
He will need 375 AP to break even with his pre-nerf W. The build you're suggesting will have him dealing strictly less damage than before the changes. Again, the buffed ap ratio will only compensate for his loss in base damage past 375 AP. Mejais only gives like 150 fully stacked?? That's not 375.
Xozi (NA)
: I'm bronze and I get what you're saying... **ALL REWARD+NO RISK** = Nurf I play Ahri low elo because it's pretty much a guaranteed win unless I have like, a 0/10 bot lane at 8:00. (its happened.)
Trust me that doesn't stop happening the higher you climb.
: So a Circlejerk got Ahri up for a nerf
The only thing I would want to change on her would be her early wave clear. At present, I think its a little to easy for ahri to go "Oh, I'm losing trades? Better just afk farm." She then proceeds to stay out of range and farm pretty well with q. Considering the positioning power her ult gives her, I would like a little more interactivity pre 6. Other than that shes fine.
: Stop being purposefully unhelpful. You're wasting people's time.
I would say its a combination of her safety and higher end damage. If she finds herself in a bad matchup, its really easy for her to just toss out a q and clear the wave without ever really interacting with her opponent. She even gets free health sustain and a ms boost to back off quickly. On the other side of the coin, she has great mobility and picking power with enough damage to win 1v1 and help a lot in teamfights. At the end of the day, the reason people are complaining is the same reason they complain about champs like fizz; lots of damage, mobility, and inherent safety. Granted ahri is far more skill based than a champ like fizz, she still probably offers too much in the hands of a decently skilled player.
: 10 Bans might force riot to change kits that are fundamentally toxic to play against.
Honestly, I think it depends. RIOT might just decide that its ok for some champs to be perma-banned in low elo. The introduction of 10 bans is likely to introduce a new meta that changes based on the tier you play at. Some champs are banned in bronze but not in plat etc. I see them accepting this as it ads a bit of diversity to the champ roster depending on the level of play. This hits one-tricks who might need a champ to get through an elo that their champ is always banned in but honestly they could stand to learn something else instead of playing the same thing over and over.
: Don't Change Fizz like this.
AP Fizz needs 375 AP to break even in damage after this change. Sure, his late game will have extra damage, but everything up until that point will have him hitting softer than before. Also, these changes are likely to force E max instead of his usual W max in lane, making him more unreliable early. Its a good change that will likely kill bruiser Fizz but leave AP Fizz playable.
Joxcab (NA)
: If you did the math correctly you wouldn't be saying bullshit like that. Try again.
Fallen you have to learn how to do math a little better. Joxcab is correct here. Overall it is a nerf to AP fizz's damage until he has over 375 AP. At that point he will do more damage than previously.
: That's interesting that you'd say that. I'm going to hammer something home: * Akali **players** want the dash to be satisfying (i.e. remain how it is) * **Everyone else** wants the dash to be less effective. You mention you haven't played Akali in years - that means you've been playing against her, and therefore fall into the category of '**Everyone else**'. Yes, she is **known** for her **Twilight Shroud**. My ranking system is **not** based on what she's known for by **everyone else**. The rankings are based on what Akali **mains** have come to associate with her identity. As I explained, this is why it is difficult for **everyone else** to understand the way Akali mains would like to see her kit progress. I'm not trying to treat these players like they know better than **everyone else** or anything like that. I'm simply voicing what I've seen to be their perspectives as a fellow Akali main. Thank you for your thoughts!
What if they made it so that the dash didn't do damage if she didn't touch her target? That way if someone times their mobility correctly they can avoid some of her damage? Or they could make the dash a skill shot that damages the first champ she hits?
: Assassin Meta vs Mage Supports
From what I've seen of the reworks so far, Kha is by far the strongest and will likely be changed. Hopefully.... Everyone else has been changed to have more delayed and conditional damage. But honestly, support healers are supposed to be squishy. They are supposed to be a high priority target that will just sustain their team through a team fight single single handedly if they aren't focused.
Talinis (NA)
: @Meddler@Shrieve I'm still confused on how AP fizz is actually going to be viable in higher elo
He'll be built more AP bruiser with this rework for sure. That's fine for me though. I've always felt that he's way more fun to play as, and is healthier to play against as a mobile fighter. Nashors and Iceborn into whatever tanky is already super fun on him and it will only make more sense after the rework. I just hope they give rylais more health because he wont need all that much ap to kill with his rework ratios.
: How to play Fizz?
The funnerist fizz build I play with right now is nashors, iceborn, rylais, and liandries. You can add whatever else at the end and boots are situational. I've always found him to be more fun as a fighter rather than an assassin. Of course his AP build is more consistent.
: New Talon Intended Roles
Honestly he seems like a mobile bruiser to me with this rework. Unless you're just standing next to a wall so he can vault on you he pretty much has to walk up to people and use that obvious dash. Now this is just spit balling, but I'm betting hes gonna be played as a roaming juggernaut in the mid or top lane. This depends on his final numbers of course.
: To everyone saying "I stopped playing 'X' because they kept getting nerfed"
I'll keep playing fizz, even after this crappy assassin rework.
Jeddy017 (NA)
: Um no, they're not creating an unique stat, they're just reworking how flat armor pen works & giving it a new name.
Then why not rework how flat magic pen works as well? They could make it so that percent pen is a stat for mages making them good team fighters and tank busters while the ap assassins build the items that have the new flat pen stat. This would focus the assassins attention on squishy targets like they thematically should be doing and make them more inherently weak to tankier targets.
: Idk why people are complaining ad assassins get another MR option with a spell shield to screw mages over and idk how adc will fair next season. That Katarina is disgusting same for every other assassin. If anything assassin mains should be happy because now they have more options and build diversity more than ever. Kat: gained wave clear and tons of mobility, better laning phase and more tower diving power Talon: impossible to gank in jungle and great gawking options Rengar: received wave clear and cc immunity and free cleanse Leblanc: still deals a lot of damage and now her Q will be her main damage source and wave clear Akali: not sure if the passive changes will fair well but gotta wait and see Fizz: more upfront burst than before Ekko: I'm happy about this Shaco: better tools and better clearing time Zed: not sure about this gotta wait and see I think I named all but all these changes seem to benefit assassins a lot and screw every other squishy over, but can't jump into conclusions because it's not out yet
Actually Fizz has far less upfront burst and his DPS has been taken away with the current changes to his w. To match his current burst, the reworked fizz has to land a max range shark and hit all of his abilities to get similar damage. If he has to blow any cooldowns to get to you after he lands the shark, he wont likely have enough damage to kill you anymore.
Penns (EUW)
: Oh, k. Because surr@20 didnt show that change. Well if thats true I can understand removing the dmg amp from Fizz ult.
Not really. A 10% magic damage amp is the exact same thing as 10 flat magic pen. It's a strict nerf to the item as the scaling pen it previously had has been removed.
Jeddy017 (NA)
: So how would they make an AP item that is favored by AP assassins & won't be abused by every other AP champ in the game? The only way I can think of is having Riot create some unique stat only AP assassins have & create/ rework items with that stat in mind. That's the only way I can think of to stop champs like Annie, Syndra, Veigar, AP Sona, etc from abusing any possible AP assassin item. Buddy, AP assassins works just fine with the AP items available.
Well they are creating a unique stat only AD assassins have and are doing exactly what you describe with them.
: They already got decent itemization tbh
I'd like more things that are set apart from the standard Mage itemization. And you could just as easily say that AD assassins had decent itemization before this update as well. It's a class update for crying out loud, and half the class is just gonna be ignored? There's going to be a whole new mechanic just for assassins "lethality" that the AP variants won't even get to partake in.
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