Rioter Comments
: If they are behaving in the tournament they aren't being toxic, which kinda was part of the condition in the question. It's extremely relevant. I'm not going to join a team that I believe will just get kicked out.
The question said toxic players. Those who got fined at worlds are toxic by definition. But they behave in a tournament. Think before you type.
: Considering a tournament with a huge prize pool is likely to kick out or heavily fine players for unsportsmanlike conduct; The positive gold players. At least I wont be banned from future tournaments and fined.
Irrelevant. First of all most toxic players behave in tournaments shown by all the players that were fined in worlds for raging in soloq. Your comment is plain ignorant.
: Firstly, it's not respectful to insult people. That's just not something allowed on the Boards, regardless of the reason or severity. Secondly, it actually undermines your argument to resort to ad hominem. If that D1 player knows so much, why can't he win the argument without denigrating his opposition? Knowing the game well and playing the game well are definitely related skills, but they aren't the *same* skill. You can know a lot about the game and not be diamond. Is it likely that bronze player has top-notch game knowledge? I would say it's unlikely, but that doesn't mean insulting them is the right way to engage them. Thirdly, there's a difference between using rank in an argument and rank shaming. If a bronze player tells me that Taric is unplayable because his teams won't play with him, it's ok for me to say "that might be true in bronze, but not in high gold/low plat. At that elo, players can play with you and Taric is more valuable there." I'm not shaming him for being bronze, I'm just explaining why Taric is in the game even if he sucks in bronze (I have no idea if that's true btw, just an example).
I am a 2100 elo in chess. https://lichess.org/@/ChaoticForce If a person that is 1300 elo was trying to argue something about the game with me it would make no sense. In chess people with lower elo understand that people with higher elo know more and they don't argue someone who is better. In league silvers think they know about the game when they don't. That is his point. There is no "rank shaming" just rank.
: Why is rank shaming a bad thing?
Because silvers think they are good and dont realize that they have no understanding of the game.
: A racist is more than just a 'moron'. A racist offends, hurts and incites hatred and those have lots of realistic consequences ---- I think you need to understand this instead ----- I understand you want to win in a game, but does winning stop you from being a decent person? Does it stop you from thinking that the racist person should be reported and punished for his behaviour?
A racist in league has no power. Why would u get hurt by something he is saying over miles away. Idc if he is racist in league. i dont want him banned because I do not care. I do not condone him being racist but he has the freedom to say whatever he wants. And even more to toxic players. They actually want to win. They arent being toxic for the sakes of being toxic.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: Those other sports don't have people playing with random other people so it's pretty difficult to say what they would do in such a scenario. I also don't see anybody being punished for saying something in an interview here, either. >Also you cant keep calling it a coincidence if it has a pattern. Yes… I mean, seriously, you are **literally** describing a coincidence if you accept that there is no causal link. There is a very clear pattern between the amount of pirates and global warming. Are you suggesting that is **not** a coincidence?
Thats a non sequitur. There is a link between toxicity and higher rated players and between toxicity and better regions. Also sport players when not in official games are toxic as hell either on twitter or in other forms. Pirates have no correlation to global warming because they are different subjects. But Imaqtpie, ls, wildturtle and other pros have said that toxicity improves the game. You should watch some beyond the rift. These are high rated players. I wouldnt expect a past season silver to respect them tho.
: Correlation can very well be a coincidence... Not sure where youre getting that from... > Toxic players want to win more so it does matter. This is also not true. You can want to win and not be toxic. > And being a decent person isnt what matters in league. This isnt a psychologist office. Idc if I play with a racist as long as I win the game that is all that matters. Im sorry but thats quite a fucked up view. Yes being a decent person isnt what just matters in league, because you should be a decent person in no matter what situation. And, id rather have one less racist in this world than to win that one game... Also about that Tarzaned thing, like I said, this is because Riot does not want to endorse toxic behavior and punishing them encourages new players and talents to join the scene.
I know that a person who is racist is a moron. But when Im in a league game idc if he is racist. I care about winning. You need to understand that.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Thinker,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=KIa42EEm,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-10-08T14:27:52.631+0000) > > Also since there is correlation between higher elo and toxicity even if its not the causation its not a coincidence. Correlation without causation is literally the best definition I can think of to define the word "coincidence". >Toxic players want to win more so it does matter. That's debatable. A better point somebody recently made is that toxic players **care** more about winning. But that doesn't have to be a good thing. Being too emotional can limit your ability to think clearly; with anger being an especially tilting emotion that makes people play worse. >And being a decent person isnt what matters in league. This isnt a psychologist office You're right with the second statement. This is a sport. Want to take a wild guess where the term "sportsmanship" comes from? It's not psychologist offices, surprisingly enough. Being a decent person matters everywhere. You can't just treat people like shit and expect there to be no consequences.
Yeah and sports only ban when they are toxic inside their competitive games. I get why they shouldnt be toxic inside the worlds games. But just like NFL didnt ban Aaron Rodgers for calling his offense garbage in an interview one week ago. Or Odell pointing fingers at Eli yesterday. Riot shouldn't ban players in SoloQ. Also you cant keep calling it a coincidence if it has a pattern. A pattern showing higher rank are more toxic is literally the opposite of a coincidence.
: > [{quoted}](name=Thinker,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=KIa42EEm,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-10-08T14:49:45.749+0000) > > And NA gets stumped in worlds every time. So what? It's not hard for players to stop being dicks if they want a chance at real money.
Not about being dicks. They want to win, winning is all that matters.
: Because as a majority, that's what Korea wants. As a majority, NA wants annoying players to take a hike.
And NA gets stumped in worlds every time.
Modi (NA)
: > Toxicity makes regions better and china/korea dont ban for toxicity. I'm curious, how does it make a region better? I think you are mistaking a causal relationship without any accounting for other factors, such as the fact that the culture in South Korea and China have, historically, been more accepting of gaming as a profession, while in the US (and to some degree Europe), this is relatively new. That is just *one* factor, where there could be hundreds or thousands of variables to take into account.
Let me also say no players from NA got fined. Sven is an import from EU.
Modi (NA)
: > Toxicity makes regions better and china/korea dont ban for toxicity. I'm curious, how does it make a region better? I think you are mistaking a causal relationship without any accounting for other factors, such as the fact that the culture in South Korea and China have, historically, been more accepting of gaming as a profession, while in the US (and to some degree Europe), this is relatively new. That is just *one* factor, where there could be hundreds or thousands of variables to take into account.
Or how about the fact that LAN is almost as strong as NA, or that EU is much much better than NA? Both of those regions dont witch hunt toxicity.
: I mean, the players in Korean SoloQ are the ones who reported the player for their actions. Not NA.
But in korea they normally dont take action. And it was an NA reddit post that revealed that uzi inted.
: > Toxicity makes regions better No. You can say that theres correlation between toxicity and skill level but you cannot say theres causation (or at least all your examples right now are for correlation instead for causaton, so unless youre giving arguments for causation you cannot just presume this) > So if you are silver or gold you have no right to say UZI deserves to get fined because your rank is so bad you do not understand the game No. You dont have to understand the game to understand how to be a decent person. > NA as a region is doomed if we keep going this way because all we care about is being positive and not about winning. Im also doubtful of this claim. Sure you can say that some pros are being denied into the pro scene because of toxicity, but you also cannot deny that positivity of the game make more new talent and players join the game who woulve otherwise not joined because of the toxicity.
How come tarzaned usually a rank 5-1 in NA got denied for being toxic. Tarzaned could be the difference between Team liquid going to quarters or going 0-6 in groups because they have someone like xmithie who is god awful and plays sej every game. Also since there is correlation between higher elo and toxicity even if its not the causation its not a coincidence. Toxic players want to win more so it does matter. And being a decent person isnt what matters in league. This isnt a psychologist office. Idc if I play with a racist as long as I win the game that is all that matters.
Hocker (NA)
: Most of them were fined for racist remarks... so is this just another one of those Alt-Right attempts at trying to "normalize" their rhetoric so they don't get continuously bitched out for it? go back to your plantation if that's really what this is about
First of all in politics Im a leftist but nice deduction. But this has to do with the fact that whatever they say in game does not matter.
Rioter Comments
: Toxicity just refers to the being awful and acting with poor sportsmanship. You can want to win while being toxic and want to win while not being toxic. Toxicity isn’t inherently tied to or defined by desire to win as those are just two things that can happen at the same time.
Why would I be toxic if I am winning? If my top lane is not 0/15 then there is no reason for me to rage. Your argument is god awful and truly SJW type of garbage. Negative reinforcement is a thing. Also since R107 is lvl 13 Im assumming is either a smurf or got banned. While you are a gold v soraka 1 trick that plays normals. Just by disagreeing with the post you are proving the god dam point.
: > Now I love how you shifted the topic, No? I answered your question, and then told you that your question is pointless because Rank doesn't matter. If anything, _you_ were the one who shifted the topic this time. > Toxic players on AVERAGE want to win more games and care more about winning than losing then your non toxic player. This statement comes without any evidence to back it up. Or, is the only evidence the supposition that, toxic players are toxic because losing makes them flame? Or some other wording like that? This entire point is basically just "toxics want to win, non-toxics don't care". Here's a counterargument; Non-toxics want to win, but are more mature and know that they're not going to win every game, as opposed to toxic players who throw a tantrum when things don't go their way. > Some proof, I don't have time to look up the sources but if you dare challenge me I will look it up and cite all of it as long as you agree your wrong. > > Uzi, high korean solo queue, imaqtpie, wildturtle, doublelift all said on video \ indirectly said that toxicity correlates with region strength and they think that competition is fueled from toxicity which is also fueled from motivation to wanting to improve > > Now you might deny that logic behind it, but you cannot say that their word is less important than yours as they are high rated on a video game and you are not. Their word is no more important than mine, regardless of their Rank. They may have more skill than me in the game, but that doesn't make them more qualified to speak on the subject of player behavior, toxicity, or competition than I am. Competition is not fueled by toxicity, and toxicity is not fueled by wanting to improve. Competition is fueled by the desire to perform and show other people your ability, compared to other people. It's about showing who's better, not who can shout the loudest and spew the most insults and swears without breaking their lungs. Wanting to improve does not breed toxicity. How the hell anyone could figure that is beyond me. Wanting to improve leads to people _looking for ways to improve_. I've said it dozens of times before; **_Toxicity is not an inherent part of competition. It is the result of the expectation of mutual respect and good sportsmanship._** Toxicity comes from people who are immature and decide to deny people respect. And, here's a more reliable source of information than a handful of random pro players: History. Competition is meant for people to come together and display their skills, and show who is the most skilled about them in the spirit of good fun. This has been the case all the way back since the Olympic Games, and doubtless even further. If people in the Olympic Games can get on just fine without railing at each other over small shit, we can do just the same today. TL;DR, you can invest as much as you want in the words of pro players, but don't expect others to do the same. I personally don't take them as credible for talking about toxicity and behavior. They may be great at the game, but that doesn't mean they're just as great at discussing behavior and toxicity. > tldr; being toxic means you care more about winning therefore to casuals they cant comprehend this logic so they say "omg so toxic omg i lost because of a toxic player" This is a false dichotomy, and, again, it reeks of the unspoken statement "toxics are pros, non-toxics are bads".
First of all, no not a coincidence. If it was one person then yes but the fact that issues like these keep getting brought up in platforms like beyond the rift and high elo players keep saying toxicity has either a positive effect on skill or at least no negative effect is not a coincidence. You can keep closing your eyes and living in your bubble but the fact of the matter is that regions with higher levels of toxicity are more skilled. LS even said Tyler1 would have never been banned in Korea, How many world championships do they have again? Second of all, MAY have higher skill than you??? You are a gold v player with negative Win Rate. Saying these high elo players may have higher skill than u is a f**ing disgrace. You are not good at this game and that makes your opinion worthless. Why would I listen to my friend the mechanic about the pain in my shoulder if my doctor is telling me something else? The same thing applies here. Why would I listen to your Gold V rank when Diamonds and above players say something else. I'll leave you with this. In life everything has rank, from the degree we get in school to videogames. These ranks give you the ethos required for someone to listen to you. As a gold V player your opinion is nothing more than wasted words, just like if a Diamond player says something that contradicts what I think in league I am wrong because I am only Plat IV and I am bad at the game myself. But I at least respect the opinion of higher elo players and I do not go around thinking that my word has the same value as someone who is actually skilled and knows the game. Also last but not least, even if the discussion is behavior rank still matters because higher elo players know how the game functions better even when it comes to behavioral things.
: >He won't have any useful conversation anyways AMIRITE? You are correct. But every player permanently muted is one NOT permanently muted player I don't have on my team. In short, it reduces my odds of getting a helpful, communicative teammate. >Well, aren't you a smart economics major, you really think a company doesn't want money! Given that Riot has explicitly, on several occasions, said they do not want toxic players playing their game, I would say that the people repeating these statements are correct, yes. >Toxicity makes you lose games This is also supported by data Riot has, as announced in a video they made a few years ago.
> This is also supported by data Riot has, as announced in a video they made a few years ago. Really? The reason you can say that is because a toxic player would not flame a team that is winning. Therefore the data is skewed. Then again with your skills and rank I do not expect you to blame yourself for your losses. Instead keep blaming being silver on toxicity.
: Still haven't had a valid discussion on toxicity
I have seen theses types of comments too. It is really frustrating that people actually think toxicity makes the game worse, on average these people also reside in the lower elo bracket but if I go on certain mods will claim its rank shaming only because they belong to said rank. I think toxicity actually makes the game better because we got people that care about the game and that want to win, Imaqtpie and wildturtle even said this in one of their beyond the rift. I also saw what you did there with "Molt". I'll let the mystery go on for now but funny. Nevertheless trolls should be flamed and toxicity does not lose you games whatsoever.
Yatol (NA)
: i swear i see these argument poping off constently > There's a mute button, and don't come here telling me "i was already offended, so muting doesnt solve the problem!" so? i didnt come to play "league of muters". You think that prossess is fun? >It does, in real life, if someone is harrasing you, you leave and walk away, you can MUTE them. there's no difference no you can't. thats not what muting means. Usualy when someone is harrasing you, the fix usually involves authorities >and if you permanently ban someone(like me) for example, ill just make a new smurf and get it to diamond in 2 days without dropping games and ruining the ladder for people in silver-d5 because i win 95% of those games . you climb diamond ,You went trough the possess of grinding back to your level to be able to play ranked (which takes a decent amount of time) then you have to climb back to your rank. You don't reform, so you get banned again. Is it really worth it, just to flame a few players
Yatol, nobody levels up accounts anymore, he bought it. Its pretty easy now a days, just go on ebay and pay 10$
: > [{quoted}](name=VALUABLE PLAYER,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=B8WxnNpi,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-08-06T15:55:09.016+0000)Why is rank shaming bad ? Because it dismisses the other person's perspective entirely just because their number isn't high enough. This isn't conducive to meaningful discussion of even *gameplay*, let alone behavior. Just because you're a mechanically better player doesn't always mean you know more about the game, game design, or game balance, and it *definitely* doesn't mean you necessarily know more about player behavior.
Like always Djinn, you are missing the point. Anyone in silver does not have a strong enough grasp of the game to comment on gameplay. Since they are low elo and do not understand the game their comment is moot. It's like me telling a doctor what to do because I am doing my bachelors in biology to go to med school, it does not fit. But I respect a doctor telling me to shut up because he has more knowledge, but you do not seem to respect people who put it more hours and invest more time into this game to actually comprehend it. Instead you think everyone opinion matters. They don't and that is the harsh truth. People who are diamond and above actually and fully understand the game we play, beyond a level that you think. If you don't believe me then I encourage you to play more instead of spending 24 hours on the behavior forums. See how much of a difference it makes. Get to platinum and shut me up. But you won't because 1 of 2 things will happen. You will delete or ignore my point and go back to saying brainwashed points that riot has made or you might actually get to a decent elo and realize that things are different. When someone is trying to climb they care about the game, they want to achieve something better and some troll rammus adc going 0/15 is preventing them. This is what you will never get. I know to you its just another game but to them is 30 mins wasted off their life because of a troll that should be flamed. I hope you will not delete this response but even if you don't I can anticipate your dispute from 5 miles away because you type the same on every thread.
: League of Landslides - matchmaking or mismatchmaking?
Thats your experience im not playing ranked anymore till season 5 but in normals games are pretty close unless i play with lvl 29 friend then its a complete stomp. I dont think is the new jungle. But it might be because im in normals.
: > [{quoted}](name=Cale017,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XOHGOVmT,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-01-01T12:52:26.598+0000) > Sucks to say, but in all reality getting out of Bronze, and to an extent Silver, is more about luck and grinding than actual skill. This needs to change. On every level..
Like i Said its not luck, its skill.
Cale017 (NA)
: Try not to rage so much. I understand your frustration, it's a large part of why I've decided not to bother with ranked play. From the way you're talking here it certainly seems like you might be acting similarly in matches and that definitely won't help you. Sucks to say, but in all reality getting out of Bronze, and to an extent Silver, is more about luck and grinding than actual skill. It doesn't matter how good you may be if you have 4 inane teammates coughing up 300 gold every minute of the game. Just keep plugging away, and try to avoid the urges to hit caps lock along the way.
Why are you talking you are unranked and bronze v in both teams. Getting out of silver and bronze is not luck Im gold and i have a smurf on latin america north kprronny already in promos to gold after my a friend gave it to me in bronze 3, and raging doesnt mean anything I can rage all i want and I can still make it to gold.
: How do people get out of Bronze?
Ok hate me all you want but if you are in bronze you deserve to be bronze because you are just horrible at the game and thats it. Now to get out of bronze get better at the game doesnt matter if you are support you can still carry yourself out dont listen to people telling you not to rage, I got a friend in d5 that rages more than an angry dog. Let me ask you something you think silver will be better? Because its not much better trolls are in every rank. Im in gold i dont think i deserve higher because i cant carry myself out. Now that you loose some games because of trolls that is acceptable but that "I CANT MOVE ON WITH INDIVIDUAL PLAY" that is major bs because how come dyrus can get out of bronze like a breeze on individual skills. Just an advice also play good champs that can roam like tf or champs that completely stomp lane like Jarvan top he is a monster.

Thinker

Level 120 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion