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Rioter Comments
: I Want You to Give an Honest Evaluation
I think the problem is some things feel better to get outplayed by. It is not fun to get outplayed by Yasuo hitting W behind himself and flashing mastery 7 at you. It is less not fun to get utterly destroyed by a xerath because you've got two left feet and can't dodge a skillshot.
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: > [{quoted}](name=ThurgotOfThunder,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mEUVE7F2,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-04-18T20:00:31.744+0000) > > Slowly, the way it should be. Bring his damage down with everyone else's, suddenly he isn't one-shooting squishies. You can dodge his Q and Silence fairly easily, especially with mobile or ranged champs, and can kite him. That's his weakness, as a juggernaut. technically, he's always been able to one-shot squishies, The unlimited stacking on his ult...however...that used to be limited to...I think it was 6 stacks of 75 to 150 ? which would be a total of 450 to 900 health
> [{quoted}](name=3TWarrior,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mEUVE7F2,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2019-04-19T16:42:03.208+0000) > > technically, he's always been able to one-shot squishies, The unlimited stacking on his ult...however...that used to be limited to...I think it was 6 stacks of 75 to 150 ? which would be a total of 450 to 900 health Technically, you're wrong, because it also only used to scale with AP, not HP. If he was one-shotting someone, he was not building tank, I promise. Also, it maxed at 6 stacks, but he lost stacks on dying.
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: ok well if you reduce damage how do i deal with {{champion:31}} without bringing the 4 other members of my team
> [{quoted}](name=Sandsexual,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mEUVE7F2,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-04-18T19:52:39.563+0000) > > ok well if you reduce damage how do i deal with {{champion:31}} without bringing the 4 other members of my team Slowly, the way it should be. Bring his damage down with everyone else's, suddenly he isn't one-shooting squishies. You can dodge his Q and Silence fairly easily, especially with mobile or ranged champs, and can kite him. That's his weakness, as a juggernaut.
: Of the current top 20 champions in plat+, winrate wise, 13 require more then one rotation or a significant number of autoattacks to kill. Of the ones who don't are Ahri (who frankly probably belongs in the 13), Vi, Riven, Hecarim (who does a lot of his work overtime but can be bursty so I'm counting him on your inane side), Lux, Malzahar (...who takes 3-4 seconds for his combo still but it is technically one rotation), and Fizz. But y'know, I'm sure Ashe and Kayle and Jinx are all just champions who suck in extended teamfights.
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mEUVE7F2,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-18T15:57:07.354+0000) > > Of the current top 20 champions in plat+, winrate wise, 13 require more then one rotation or a significant number of autoattacks to kill. Of the ones who don't are Ahri (who frankly probably belongs in the 13), Vi, Riven, Hecarim (who does a lot of his work overtime but can be bursty so I'm counting him on your inane side), Lux, Malzahar (...who takes 3-4 seconds for his combo still but it is technically one rotation), and Fizz. > > But y'know, I'm sure Ashe and Kayle and Jinx are all just champions who suck in extended teamfights. Winrate doesn't mean anything toward what I'm saying. And neither does "single rotation" necessarily. It refers to champions who particularly need fights to last longer for their kit to be meaningful. No, Ashe, Kayle, and Jinx don't NEED that, they're just also good at that. Champions like Amumu, Mundo, Cho Gath that are being buffed to just do more damage, are SUPPOSED to need that, but they don't get it anymore, so rather than look at why they're struggling or not feeling like themselves, we slap more damage on them. Use inane in a way that makes sense next time, and know what you're arguing.
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: imagine thinking that lower mana costs = more damage lmfao
> [{quoted}](name=Marshbouy,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4hNdvPeB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-17T00:24:51.330+0000) > > imagine thinking that lower mana costs = more damage lmfao Imagine thinking having less resource management to worry about did not directly correlate to more abilities being used, and therefore more potential damage in every trade.
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Eldeazar (EUW)
: Your point is valid and I don't disagree with the thrust of the argument but the initial premise is wrong; items, gold earning, resource pool and a great number of other things are also balance levers...
> [{quoted}](name=Eldeazar,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aWJip4uA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-13T20:47:32.203+0000) > > Your point is valid and I don't disagree with the thrust of the argument but the initial premise is wrong; items, gold earning, resource pool and a great number of other things are also balance levers... They are, but they are under utilized or used poorly.
Rioter Comments
: I think Morello should be reverted to the same slot efficiency as before BUT instead of offering Mpen, Oblivion Orb should offer grievous wounds and more AP. Lifesteal is a bit of a luxury stat for champions which are meant to be good vs tanky targets. It's also most effective late game where these champions should shine. I'm not sure it's really a problem yet. Most of the time, I don't even have Bloodline stacked by 25 minutes.
I don't think it's quite a problem yet, but it is on its way, and with in-combat sustain continuing to get buffed, things are looking worse and worse for tanks.
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Aarron (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ThurgotOfThunder,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=msEYflbc,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-03-24T20:00:44.479+0000) > > resists actually stack against themselves, becoming less potent the more you buy If you actually math out how resistances works you'd know this is a load of shit
> [{quoted}](name=Aarron,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=msEYflbc,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-03-25T12:11:32.415+0000) > > If you actually math out how resistances works you'd know this is a load of shit 100 armor on top of 500 armor means a lot less than 100 armor on top of 0 armor.
: Bone plating + resists + HP all multiply each others effectiveness. Now if Aftershock didn't have free damage added to it (just make it a slow ffs...), vision runes didnt get free damage added to it, Lethality items didnt stack so hard, and defensive items didnt get truck loads of AD ({{item:3812}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3080}} {{item:3026}} ) Maybe tanks could be valuable. "Sej is weak? Lets give her 130 more damage on E"
> [{quoted}](name=MankeyMadness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=msEYflbc,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-03-24T19:50:18.743+0000) > > Bone plating + resists + HP all multiply each others effectiveness. > > Now if Aftershock didn't have free damage added to it (just make it a slow ffs...), vision runes didnt get free damage added to it, Lethality items didnt stack so hard, and defensive items didnt get truck loads of AD ({{item:3812}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3080}} {{item:3026}} ) > > Maybe tanks could be valuable. > "Sej is weak? Lets give her 130 more damage on E" Boneplating is flat damage reduction, resists actually stack against themselves, becoming less potent the more you buy, and there is only one % hp increase and it's on a jungle item.
: you think youre hot shit cause you know words
> [{quoted}](name=1 800 Top Lane,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=msEYflbc,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-24T17:34:37.082+0000) > > you think youre hot shit cause you know words Google thesaurus is the real mvp.
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: > [{quoted}](name=ThurgotOfThunder,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=c1eJuPbB,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-03-24T17:09:53.422+0000) > > This is a video game ruled by mechanics meant to make it a fun, interactive experience where players can use skill to out play their opponents, not real life. And having all of your mobility on a mobility reliant champ disabled by an enemy pressing a button is not interactive.
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=c1eJuPbB,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-03-24T17:12:28.785+0000) > > And having all of your mobility disabled by an enemy pressing a button is not interactive. I would argue that having a huge crowd control cooldown be totally wasted because a champ can QSS with a normal ability is far, far less interactive than someone reacting to a dash, using their crowd control according, and being punished because unstoppable btw. Dodging is interactive, and most crowd control in this game now is some sort of skillshot. Instant cleanse and get out of jail free card is not a skillcheck, but a reaction time/fps check, and hurts the game.
: All marksmen autos should be dodgeable and have a wind up of a second before they become at all accurate and need to research ballistics before they will be able to at all accurately target a moving enemy. Change my mind.
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=c1eJuPbB,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-24T16:24:31.605+0000) > > All marksmen autos should be dodgeable and have a wind up of a second before they become at all accurate and need to research ballistics before they will be able to at all accurately target a moving enemy. > > Change my mind. This is a video game ruled by mechanics meant to make it a fun, interactive experience where players can use skill to out play their opponents, not real life.
Aarron (NA)
: Ah yes Because Crowd control isn't strong enough already It really needs this buff
> [{quoted}](name=Aarron,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=c1eJuPbB,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-03-24T16:47:24.761+0000) > > Ah yes > Because Crowd control isn't strong enough already > It really needs this buff No, crowd control doesn't need a buff, but mobility needs a nerf.
: > [{quoted}](name=ThurgotOfThunder,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mLhcnec2,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-03-24T15:07:25.076+0000) > > The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Malphite's Ultimate. Enlighten me. Yasuo’s E, Kalista Passive, Talon Parkour, Warwick’s ultimate somewhat. Aside from those, I don’t think any others scale with MS.
> [{quoted}](name=JustMonika13,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mLhcnec2,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-24T15:10:44.934+0000) > > Yasuo’s E, Kalista Passive, Talon Parkour, Warwick’s ultimate somewhat. > > Aside from those, I don’t think any others scale with MS. Does Kalista scale just with boot purchase? I did forget about that one. Not sure I ever knew about Talon or Yasuo.
Rioter Comments
: You realize that most dashes already do that lol.
> [{quoted}](name=XShadowAlkX,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mLhcnec2,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-24T14:39:54.217+0000) > > You realize that most dashes already do that lol. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Malphite's Ultimate. Enlighten me.
: > [{quoted}](name=ThurgotOfThunder,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=c1eJuPbB,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-03-24T14:43:18.037+0000) > > 1- Trist doesn't ride her rocket. 2- If Taric uses UNLIMITED COSMIC POWER on some yordle with a gun, she would probably do more than get knocked out. It isn't about thematics, it's about gameplay. I sorta agree and sorta don't. Mechanically, I think some abilities should include knockdown effects even though they currently don't. Leona's R is actually a good example of one ability that should knock down on impact (regardless of stun or slow). I think adding it to a few abilities won't hurt but I don't believe it should be universal. For all other purposes, knockdown effects should be limited because of how high damage is. Even if you do dash/jump out, getting stunned/snared/silenced halfway through means you're still potentially in trouble because the enemies will usually be close enough to follow up. I understand mechanical versus thematic argument, but there's reasons mechanically for not doing it (mainly due to where balance currently stands).
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=c1eJuPbB,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-24T15:02:42.597+0000) > > I sorta agree and sorta don't. > > Mechanically, I think some abilities should include knockdown effects even though they currently don't. Leona's R is actually a good example of one ability that should knock down on impact (regardless of stun or slow). I think adding it to a few abilities won't hurt but I don't believe it should be universal. > > For all other purposes, knockdown effects should be limited because of how high damage is. Even if you do dash/jump out, getting stunned/snared/silenced halfway through means you're still potentially in trouble because the enemies will usually be close enough to follow up. > > I understand mechanical versus thematic argument, but there's reasons mechanically for not doing it (mainly due to where balance currently stands). This would also be a good place to start looking into toning down damage. Making dashes less reliable would mean people would have to be more wary about their reckless engages, buff immobile champs, and give mobility some sort of check.
: If youre blasted through the air (on a trist rocket) and you get knocked out doing it. Do you suddenly stop moving and land?
> [{quoted}](name=Cind3rkick,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=c1eJuPbB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-24T14:37:05.920+0000) > > If youre blasted through the air (on a trist rocket) and you get knocked out doing it. Do you suddenly stop moving and land? 1- Trist doesn't ride her rocket. 2- If Taric uses UNLIMITED COSMIC POWER on some yordle with a gun, she would probably do more than get knocked out. It isn't about thematics, it's about gameplay.
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: The only reason ranged characters have a better chance is because they're at a farther distance. Not because they're more mobile. The fastest ranged champion (in terms of base movement speed) is still going to barely be faster than the slowest melee champion. This is a fact. Only a few ranged champions have solid movement speed steroids in their kit (not including dashes/blinks/jumps here) and only a few are inclined to build movement speed items such as Zeal or Aether Wisp and their upgrades. Those with blinks/dashes/jumps have to give up that mobility to make the dodge and that goes for both melee and ranged champions. Ranged champions also get fewer blinks/dashes/jumps as a whole, often only getting one skill for such mobility and lucky if there's any reset on it at all. People say range trumps movement. They conveniently forget that melee champions often have more options and better options for mobility/CC while also ignoring that ranged champions are often forcibly given the short stick when it comes to some of those choices.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Gc33uLJ7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-10T15:33:26.299+0000) > > The only reason ranged characters have a better chance is because they're at a farther distance. Not because they're more mobile. > > The fastest ranged champion (in terms of base movement speed) is still going to barely be faster than the slowest melee champion. This is a fact. Only a few ranged champions have solid movement speed steroids in their kit (not including dashes/blinks/jumps here) and only a few are inclined to build movement speed items such as Zeal or Aether Wisp and their upgrades. Those with blinks/dashes/jumps have to give up that mobility to make the dodge and that goes for both melee and ranged champions. Ranged champions also get fewer blinks/dashes/jumps as a whole, often only getting one skill for such mobility and lucky if there's any reset on it at all. > > People say range trumps movement. They conveniently forget that melee champions often have more options and better options for mobility/CC while also ignoring that ranged champions are often forcibly given the short stick when it comes to some of those choices. I'm not implying that range=mobility, just that range=greater opportunity to dodge. Also I bet you can't name a full build for an adc or mage without at least one movespeed item, and while there are options available to melee champs, I wouldn't say there are more or better ones.
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: > [{quoted}](name=ThurgotOfThunder,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=chv6XRod,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-03-09T15:15:17.469+0000) > > I can't say I disagree, but I think with a little rearranging they would only have to tune numbers rather than delete mechanics, which would keep the core champion intact. Windwall would be just as toxic at 2 seconds duration versus its current 4. It needs to be deleted.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=chv6XRod,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-09T15:19:02.663+0000) > > Windwall would be just as toxic at 2 seconds duration versus its current 4. > > It needs to be deleted. I posted before about a few fixes to windwall to make it more fair to play around. I think in its current form, it is way too strong, but it could be balanced with little effort.
: They actually need to simply delete one or two of his biggest offenders. Rearranging them won't be enough.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=chv6XRod,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-09T15:11:28.456+0000) > > They actually need to simply delete one or two of his biggest offenders. Rearranging them won't be enough. I can't say I disagree, but I think with a little rearranging they would only have to tune numbers rather than delete mechanics, which would keep the core champion intact.
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: The Unsupported Speculation Thread
Amumu is Nunu from the future and he's so sad because Willump died.
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: You've literally posted this exact same thread 2 times already. Why do you need to repost it a 3rd time?
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=WEBM83dB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-24T23:26:25.733+0000) > > You've literally posted this exact same thread 2 times already. Why do you need to repost it a 3rd time? I posted it once when the boards were screwy relax.
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ThurgotOfThunder

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