Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 23
I know that people are going to downforce me immediately for asking this, but do you have any opinions on the champions that just recently shot up to being picked in Competitve like {{champion:103}} ,{{champion:8}} , and {{champion:117}} ? Will they be subject to changes soon (as in 7.7) or will these possible changes come later (7.8-Mid Season). Thanks!
: Pokemon Card Madness! (EVENT)
It is four. I'm half Japanese, can confirm. The phrase for Four( 四 )and Death (死 )are both pronounced with the "Shi" sound if you read them a certain way. This occurs because many southeast Asian languages are tonal, meaning that one tone or combination of tones can mean multiple different things. The term "Shi No Ji" (四の字) is written with the character for 'Four', however it has been associated with death since the Hei-an Period ,平安時代(Literally age of Peace and safety), which occurred over 1200 years ago. I am also pretty sure that a few other southeast Asian languages have the same tonal similarities between Four and Death. I'm pretty sure that this explanation isn't that precise, but {{champion:202}} is pretty much death in many Southeastern Asian languages.
: Miss Fortune and Graves are always going to abuse Black Cleaver unless it is deleted from the game just because of the way their kits are. Lucian building it isn't too weird either because of his ult and his ability to cast spells and auto attack so often. Ashe, on the other hand, makes no sense to me at all.
> [{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Et5Jwjyt,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-03-23T04:40:08.740+0000) > > Miss Fortune and Graves are always going to abuse Black Cleaver unless it is deleted from the game just because of the way their kits are. Lucian building it isn't too weird either because of his ult and his ability to cast spells and auto attack so often. Ashe, on the other hand, makes no sense to me at all. Doesn't her Q apply multiple stacks of it because of how quickly it applies damage? I dunno I just know that it seems to work on Graves and Lucian as well as Darius and Garen, maybe even better.
awdaf (NA)
: The real buff Jinx needs
9/11 best idea I've seen today.
: Lux gets a buff? So should Viktor
I think Viktor can use some buffs, alongside Lux and any other Mage not being picked in LCS ~~because I don't want people taking my Vlad~~ because they could have interesting niches to fill. Btw this is kind of a joke but I do want Vlad out of the meta
Fefnil (EUW)
: Safety is not the only thing you need when dealing with a 1v2. The main problem is being able to quickly freeze the lane to avoid being pushed under tower and eventually lose it, hence you need waveclear. The only marksmen you can realistically bring on a 1v2 are Corki, Graves or, even better, Sivir, which are the only ones who have solo potential. Every other marksman is too much susceptible to being bullied and pushed.
> [{quoted}](name=Fefnil,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k2hyq4AA,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-03-21T11:50:03.036+0000) > > Safety is not the only thing you need when dealing with a 1v2. The main problem is being able to quickly freeze the lane to avoid being pushed under tower and eventually lose it, hence you need waveclear. > The only marksmen you can realistically bring on a 1v2 are Corki, Graves or, even better, Sivir, which are the only ones who have solo potential. Every other marksman is too much susceptible to being bullied and pushed. Yes, however I don't think the choice was bad, especially since you don't know how this player was going to play this "support" pick. Also, Graves and Corki nowadays tend to be better in the Jungle and Mid Lane respectively, and Sivir lacks range on her auto attacks, meaning she will have to burn through a lot of mana early game throwing Q's to try and get CS.
Fefnil (EUW)
: Ok, this is all fine and dandy, but seriously, why pick Ezreal in a 1v2 botlane? He has the waveclear of a Braum. I wonder why enemies get first tower at 4 minutes...
> [{quoted}](name=Fefnil,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k2hyq4AA,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-03-21T11:32:36.913+0000) > > Ok, this is all fine and dandy, but seriously, why pick Ezreal in a 1v2 botlane? He has the waveclear of a Braum. I wonder why enemies get first tower at 4 minutes... It's because Ezreal is pretty safe with his range and his blink, and being forced to 1v2 Bot Lane means that he must almost certainly forfeit the turret anyway.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 20
@Riot Meddler Any plans for my bro {{champion:8}} ? He has recently resurfaced and pro play and /r/VladimirMains is somewhat nervous with the way his play is turning out. Are there anyways you can think of that could make his pro play weaker and his solo que unchanged/better? We have thought of removing the damage amp for allies since many people in solo que can't take advantage/know how to use the damage amp. Thank you if you read this! :^)
Aptest (EUW)
: considering the system is supposed to incentive you to not OTP? yes there's a simple and easy way: when you hover your Yasuo in champ select? choose something else.
> [{quoted}](name=Aptest,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uPAkzwNZ,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-03-20T16:46:45.148+0000) > > considering the system is supposed to incentive you to not OTP? > yes there's a simple and easy way: when you hover your Yasuo in champ select? choose something else. I don't play Yasuo though. I've been consistently playing Vladimir for most of my past games. I played Vladimir when he was shit, and have over 100 games on him. I'm serious, check my OP.GG.
Derfel (NA)
: yasuo one tricks should earn a slap to the face
> [{quoted}](name=Derfel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uPAkzwNZ,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-03-20T15:49:19.486+0000) > > yasuo one tricks should earn a slap to the face I one trick Vlad tho (Real Vlad main btw, check my op.gg)
: I think if the ultimate scaled more with an ally's missing HP we could niche it. Some hitbox enlargements on E and Q, as well as projectile speed increase on Q, would go a long way. Also his passive shield duration needs to be upped again, it hardly lasts as it is.
> [{quoted}](name=Melledoneus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tGZjBGaE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-19T18:16:20.402+0000) > > I think if the ultimate scaled more with an ally's missing HP we could niche it. This idea that I saw from you and that Rioter was golden. I don't main Shen and I haven't played him that much, but when I saw that idea I was like "Holy Shit this is genius ".
: 2.2 total for her damage ratios, isn't grand but its more than enough to kill squishies with.
> [{quoted}](name=NineTailedMystic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KxzlHgFf,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2017-03-20T03:34:01.505+0000) > > 2.2 total for her damage ratios, isn't grand but its more than enough to kill squishies with. {{champion:8}} has a 2.11 AP ratio on just his Empowered Q plus E, and that's not including the health scaling on his E either. However, he has only recently become 'good' in pro play, and even there he is proving himself so far to be kind of 'meh'. This is likely due to how he lacks hard CC and mobility as well as range, so he has these great AP ratios to compensate.
: This would make the game more snowbally. More assists= more gold. More gold = more snowball. I want it as much as you, but a tiny change like this will throw balance of whack.
> [{quoted}](name=Best Wizfact EUW,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7JE0pFaV,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-03-20T03:19:21.617+0000) > > This would make the game more snowbally. > > More assists= more gold. > > More gold = more snowball. > > I want it as much as you, but a tiny change like this will throw balance of whack. All it would mean is that assist gold would be split up between more players. Not only that most supports are the least snowball class in the game, as they are the class that is primarily played for their inherent utility.
: The same thing that put Ahri into LCS.
> [{quoted}](name=NineTailedMystic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=paAkxAB1,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-20T00:57:35.582+0000) > > The same thing that put Ahri into LCS. I want some other Mid Laners to buffed personally. I'm a Vladimir OTP, so I kind of get screwed whenever my boi Vlad gets picked or banned. I wish they could buff things like {{champion:90}} Mid Lane (emphasis on MID), {{champion:127}} ,{{champion:163}} , {{champion:99}} ,{{champion:143}} Mid Lane, and hell maybe even {{champion:268}} , although I personally despise playing against Azir. Just no one touch my ~~Homo~~ ~~Emo~~ Hemomancer (that means he uses blood to cast his magic, or magic to cast his blood.
MysterQ (NA)
: Find a friend/new account. Just play a game with them every 7 days =\.
> [{quoted}](name=MysterQ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uPAkzwNZ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-03-20T02:52:05.096+0000) > > Find a friend/new account. Just play a game with them every 7 days =\. Thanks for the suggestion! Gonna try that soon probably.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Your main's ult now is global with 0 travel or channel time.
{{champion:8}} AIDS. That's a lot of HIV. (Also I am a real Vlad main. Check my OP.GG)
: Were his lane counters nerfed? Item or meta changes?
> [{quoted}](name=XxxLumberJackxxX,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=paAkxAB1,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-19T17:11:56.367+0000) > > Were his lane counters nerfed? Item or meta changes? {{champion:7}} and {{champion:13}} . Then you can just ban {{champion:69}}
: What does your main say about you?! Part 1
After maining {{champion:8}} for a while, I can give you a general idea. {{champion:8}} : You're a ~~Homo~~Hemomancer Emo kid with hair died black. You like to suck people off (Q), you sink into a pool of depression (W), and you hurt those around when you ~~cut~~ hurt yourself (E). You also have AIDS (R), so that may be the root cause of your depression.
: Vlad gets played once in lcs - does good - now picked/banned.
I'm a Vladimir main (not a meta slave, check my OP.GG I played Vlad even when he was garbage) and Vladimir is (when ahead) almost completely unstoppable with the amount of damage, survivability, and scaling he has. When behind, however, he has no hard CC, and he pays health to slow people. His ult is nice, but then not many people in Solo que can appreciate the damage Amp. If we had to rework him I would change his R, Hemoplague, his passive, and maybe his Q. Many people would disagree with this, but I would personally give it a 15-20 % Max health cost, remove the damage amp tor allies, and give it some other utility (Hard CC, Amplified healing for Vladimir if he Q's an opponent afflicted by Hemoplague, etc). In order to make sure Tank Vladimir becomes broken by this, we can change Vladimir's passive. His current passive is just too much gold efficiency. It's essentially a gold generation passive, as you get more stats for the same amount of gold. I don't what we could put in here, but maybe some movement speed or some method of becoming a bit Tanky through means other than stats (you know, healing) might be nice. For his Q, it might be a good idea to his Lane sustain a bit. Almost every champion I can think of who has manaless sustain, especially in lane, is getting a full VGU or a class update down the line, and some have already gotten pretty big chanage. I am talking about {{champion:266}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:36}} (Im excluding {{champion:64}} and {{champion:154}} from this because although Zac is getting changes in the tank update they are both balanced around being Junglers) it might be a good idea to hit Vladimir's Lane sustain through Q, because his laning is pretty darn safe while also being extremely well sustained. Maybe a change to how his Q interacts with both minions and monsters (healing for Empowered Q is reduced against minions, but not against champions and Jungle camps, so good Vlads will heal off of jungle camps like Gromp, Raptors and Krugs). However, I am very biased on all of this, and all I want is for my champion to become the next in line of the multitude of champions gutted for Solo que because of competitive.
: How many trophies? Got super tilted after my laptop broke down, and the legendary chest gave me a card that I already have and it has no use for me since I have level 2 Lumberjack. So I'm lonely with nothing to do. Lovely!
> [{quoted}](name=WarringNations,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NjWX40Ac,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-17T17:38:18.392+0000) > > How many trophies? Got super tilted after my laptop broke down, and the legendary chest gave me a card that I already have and it has no use for me since I have level 2 Lumberjack. > > So I'm lonely with nothing to do. Lovely! Btw Bandit is broken OP plz nerf ~~Rito~~ Supercell
: Talon rarely gets IE As far as your post is concerned, his Q could just be reworded to "extra damage in melee range"
> [{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fWKncOfa,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-03-17T15:30:33.497+0000) > > Talon rarely gets IE > As far as your post is concerned, his Q could just be reworded to "extra damage in melee range" Yes, but I think (I'm not 100% about this) the damage gets reduced by {{item:3143}} . I think this also goes for {{champion:8}} Crimson Rush Q as well, even though it is magic damage.
: Can we stop handing free crits to champions?
I would rather have guaranteed crits from Fiora and Talon than someone like {{champion:119}} landing one auto with his build looking like this: {{item:3153}} {{item:3072}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3031}} and killing me one shot with a 1K crit or {{champion:41}} landing one barrel when his build looks like this {{item:3078}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3814}} {{item:3147}} killing me with a lucky barrel crit. I just really dislike the RNG element of crit, and I frankly would be fine with more guaranteed crits in champion kits if we could change the RNG of normal crits.
: When everyone in your team has Thunderlord's Decree
Mike Pence called. He wants you to pay your electricity bill.
: Can we talk about this?: Vladimir
So I'm a Vladimir main so I'll disagree with most of what you say here, but I'll throw some ideas out. Scrap the passive. His passive is boring af, and should almost definitely be changed, along with {{champion:27}} passive and {{champion:13}} passive, which do similar things but with mana instead. Another idea is to take away the damage Amp from his ult for allies. This would mean that his teamfight in general would be weaker, and only he would benefit from the damage Amp. I also checked the Vladimir that was in your match history. The best way to beat Vladimir is to pick a diving bruiser/skirmisher and try to snowball against Vladimir. Champs that can do this are as follows: {{champion:164}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:5}} . A couple other bad match ups early game for Vladimir are {{champion:126}} ,{{champion:85}} ,{{champion:68}} , and {{champion:50}} . {{champion:34}} is a complete and utter cockblock for most Vladimir's, he jus the gets zoned too hard. You bought Executioner's Calling, which is good, but you also want a bit of MR in there as well. Also, the Vladimir you went against was 8 divisions above you (You're Silver 4, he was Gold 1)
: Since he was played in LCS and won it means people are going to play him without know how to play him. Which will bring about two things: 1. Win rate will lower 2. People don't want bad vlad players on their team so his ban rate will go up. To many LCS sheep in this game and it's kind of ruining it for a lot of people.
> [{quoted}](name=TheLastShadow45,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NjWX40Ac,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-17T02:21:04.386+0000) > > Since he was played in LCS and won it means people are going to play him without know how to play him. Which will bring about two things: > 1. Win rate will lower > 2. People don't want bad vlad players on their team so his ban rate will go up. > > To many LCS sheep in this game and it's kind of ruining it for a lot of people. Well I'm fine with the Winrate going down, since that means they (might) be less likely to nerf him. With ban rate though...I guess it's time to go back to playing Clash Royale (that mobile app game) because I can only really play Vladimir.
Rioter Comments
: Congrats! You just hit 30, and you're ready to play ranked! Here's some helpful tips.
You probably want to play the game in normals mode until you have enough IP to buy a 2-3 pages of runes. This is pretty important, since runes can provide something like 1400 gold in stats.
: i really wish riot would care more about vlad and other misfit champions that got updated
> [{quoted}](name=GilgameshSol,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s42pIAKQ,comment-id=000d0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-16T05:27:39.373+0000) > > i really wish riot would care more about vlad and other misfit champions that got updated He's currently pretty stable now. He's balancing out at around a 49-50% winrate. If you know how to play him he's pretty good.
7th Syn (NA)
: {{champion:22}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:110}} when they start falling behing if they have another ad champ doing well should really buy an early cleaver + runaans they have the easiest way to stack the armor shred out of any class and they can still pump out damage doing so. {{item:3085}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3143}} {{item:1001}} is a perfectly fine alternative build to swap to imo, gives them bulk to not just repeatedly get deleted as easy, still has okay damage, and stacks shred on the enemy team while putting out that damage so their other champs like a zed can do their jobs still. HOWEVER None of them do this They still go 100% squishy, usually not even buying lifesteal, then proceed to become a glorified minion dying instantly to whoever looks at them funny while doing barely any damage themselves...doesnt help every time they start using an item for safety riot guts the item though ({{item:3053}} )
> [{quoted}](name=7th Syn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s42pIAKQ,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2017-03-16T03:32:04.127+0000) > > {{champion:22}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:110}} when they start falling behing if they have another ad champ doing well should really buy an early cleaver + runaans > they have the easiest way to stack the armor shred out of any class and they can still pump out damage doing so. > {{item:3085}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3143}} {{item:1001}} is a perfectly fine alternative build to swap to imo, gives them bulk to not just repeatedly get deleted as easy, still has okay damage, and stacks shred on the enemy team while putting out that damage so their other champs like a zed can do their jobs still. > > HOWEVER > None of them do this > They still go 100% squishy, usually not even buying lifesteal, then proceed to become a glorified minion dying instantly to whoever looks at them funny while doing barely any damage themselves...doesnt help every time they start using an item for safety riot guts the item though ({{item:3053}} ) This is pretty true, and I do agree with most of what you are saying, but for one item: {{item:3036}} . This item disincentives health on ADC so much because of how good it is against tanks. Also, in my opinion {{champion:22}} and {{champion:110}} are two of the few ADC who are decent when behind because of their utility and ranged Poke.
: vlad is actually useful?all he does is damage the only thing he brings out side of damage is the ult and being a minor meat shield for a few seconds before being deleted by most teams
> [{quoted}](name=GilgameshSol,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s42pIAKQ,comment-id=000d00000000,timestamp=2017-03-16T02:42:11.906+0000) > > vlad is actually useful?all he does is damage the only thing he brings out side of damage is the ult and being a minor meat shield for a few seconds before being deleted by most teams No, not really in terms of utility. However, he does a lot of damage. Like tons of damage. He also amps damage and tanks a good bit of damage. However you got to build Vladimir as a full AP burst Mage so yeah, by my own logic, my own main is pretty damn feast or famine. However, he has a couple utility/tank routes to go down if the going gets rough, so he isn't as poorly off as an ADC who falls behind. Vlad, for example, can build {{item:3116}} for the utility it brings with its slow, while an ADC really can't build {{item:3022}} as it will scale against their {{item:3036}} . And, as you said, he has a decent damage Amp as well as godly sustain which then gets further amplified by Tank stats.
: I wonder who we contact to get this to happen?
> [{quoted}](name=AndreiRayanovsky,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T2JNb3cm,comment-id=002d00000000,timestamp=2017-03-16T02:41:21.477+0000) > > I wonder who we contact to get this to happen? Ask Rito to copypasta it to the top.
: First off, I think it’s part of the job of a game developer to be aware and listen to player feedback in whatever form it takes. Just because someone is angry doesn’t mean they don’t have some good points, or that how they feel is invalid. I don’t think you have to be too concerned about hurting our feelings. BUT, the thing about angry shitposts is that it’s lot more difficult to break down which parts are good feedback, and which parts are just emotional reactions. And that means that what may have been a valid argument gets lost in the assumptions, knee-jerk reactions, or waterfall of emotional responses. It’s a lot harder to justify taking an argument seriously when it doesn’t feel like the other party is doing so. I don’t think that’s a super great thing for us to do - as I said, just because someone writes an angry post doesn’t negate their point, but the truth is that digging through vitriol to find the nugget of good feedback can be challenging or emotionally draining. The main argument you want to make may get lost in the noise. So, my advice, if you feel strongly about about champion balance, an item, a piece of music, or whatever, and you want to have a discussion about it, think about the core point you want to make, take a breath, break it down, and write it out in an organized, objective way. Try playing devil’s advocate to your own argument, think about the other perspective, test your assumptions. For developers, the most useful discussions come when someone talks through their thought process. I work on videos here, and we have some guidelines we use when we’re looking for feedback on our projects. It’s not a perfect comparison, but I’ll share it here, if you’re interested. 1. Identify the “Why” - So you don’t like the editing of this scene - great, but _why_ do you feel that way? 2. Don’t be prescriptive. - Identify the causes of problems, rather than demanding specific remedies. - Pitching ideas/solutions is awesome, as well as providing examples as to why you feel the way you do. 3. Be specific. - Detail is very helpful. - “This Sucks” is not very helpful. This doesn’t mean that every post that does these things will get a Riot response, but I can promise you that if I’m reading through the boards and see a thoughtful discussion, I will send it to a Rioter working on that thing. In my experience, those kinds of posts are much more likely to make their way around the office and get seen.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Calad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T2JNb3cm,comment-id=002d,timestamp=2017-03-16T02:28:47.396+0000) > > First off, I think it’s part of the job of a game developer to be aware and listen to player feedback in whatever form it takes. Just because someone is angry doesn’t mean they don’t have some good points, or that how they feel is invalid. I don’t think you have to be too concerned about hurting our feelings. > > BUT, the thing about angry shitposts is that it’s lot more difficult to break down which parts are good feedback, and which parts are just emotional reactions. And that means that what may have been a valid argument gets lost in the assumptions, knee-jerk reactions, or waterfall of emotional responses. It’s a lot harder to justify taking an argument seriously when it doesn’t feel like the other party is doing so. > > I don’t think that’s a super great thing for us to do - as I said, just because someone writes an angry post doesn’t negate their point, but the truth is that digging through vitriol to find the nugget of good feedback can be challenging or emotionally draining. The main argument you want to make may get lost in the noise. > > So, my advice, if you feel strongly about about champion balance, an item, a piece of music, or whatever, and you want to have a discussion about it, think about the core point you want to make, take a breath, break it down, and write it out in an organized, objective way. Try playing devil’s advocate to your own argument, think about the other perspective, test your assumptions. For developers, the most useful discussions come when someone talks through their thought process. > > I work on videos here, and we have some guidelines we use when we’re looking for feedback on our projects. It’s not a perfect comparison, but I’ll share it here, if you’re interested. > > > 1. Identify the “Why” > - So you don’t like the editing of this scene - great, but _why_ do you feel that way? > 2. Don’t be prescriptive. > - Identify the causes of problems, rather than demanding specific remedies. > - Pitching ideas/solutions is awesome, as well as providing examples as to why you feel the way you do. > 3. Be specific. > - Detail is very helpful. > - “This Sucks” is not very helpful. > > > This doesn’t mean that every post that does these things will get a Riot response, but I can promise you that if I’m reading through the boards and see a thoughtful discussion, I will send it to a Rioter working on that thing. In my experience, those kinds of posts are much more likely to make their way around the office and get seen. We need to pin this Rioter response to the top of the gameplay boards along with that Bill Nye "Consider the following" post.
: I'd say you're about 30% correct. From the stand point of function, an ADC does only serve one purpose realistically with the exception of Sivir/Ashe who bring legit strong utility to a team. However, adcs scale so hard that even when behind, they scale so exponentially faster than most classes with items that they become real damage threats pretty quickly, even when behind. Consider that they also don't rely on getting ahead, this makes that claim about them being feast or famine untrue mostly. Adcs are perfectly content with a farm game, true feast or famine champions aren't. And that's because a slow paced game of farming favors adcs the most and this isn't the case for feast or famine champions. I think their natural design is problematic and seeing armor pen/lethality builds work has convinced me the option of removing crit is realistic because it was once believed crit in addition to AS/%armor pen was the only consistent way to DPS a tank down. And while both do comparable jobs, I'd argue the lethality/armor pen builds are much healthier in nature with more consistent scaling. Now naturally it would need to be tuned differently but I believe this work much better and be healthier. And I think while this wasn't the point you were trying to make, this may be a better explanation along your lines of thinking.
> [{quoted}](name=HateDaddy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s42pIAKQ,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-03-16T01:04:36.568+0000) > > I'd say you're about 30% correct. From the stand point of function, an ADC does only serve one purpose realistically with the exception of Sivir/Ashe who bring legit strong utility to a team. However, adcs scale so hard that even when behind, they scale so exponentially faster than most classes with items that they become real damage threats pretty quickly, even when behind. Consider that they also don't rely on getting ahead, this makes that claim about them being feast or famine untrue mostly. Adcs are perfectly content with a farm game, true feast or famine champions aren't. And that's because a slow paced game of farming favors adcs the most and this isn't the case for feast or famine champions. > > I think their natural design is problematic and seeing armor pen/lethality builds work has convinced me the option of removing crit is realistic because it was once believed crit in addition to AS/%armor pen was the only consistent way to DPS a tank down. And while both do comparable jobs, I'd argue the lethality/armor pen builds are much healthier in nature with more consistent scaling. Now naturally it would need to be tuned differently but I believe this work much better and be healthier. And I think while this wasn't the point you were trying to make, this may be a better explanation along your lines of thinking. As I stated in Point 3, an ADC's 'feast' is getting to late game. Their famine is everything leading up to that. It's just that so many games end so early now that I call them feast or famine. They may not have been in the past, but the game has evolved to the point where I believe they are truly feast or famine. Crit almost definitely needs a rework, and I think lifesteal does too, since it's the same idea is Mordekaiser's shield passive (Damage=Survivability)
: > An ADCs survivability, at least to a certain extent, is based on how much damage they deal, which is also associated with how much gold they get. I am of course talking about lifesteal. Items like bloodthirster and blade of the ruined king heal the user for a % of damage dealt BotRK shouldn't give lifesteal and bloodthirster should be removed. Or Riot should add Will of the Ancients back into the game (and leave Vlad as-is). It's only fair that AP mages get spell vamp on items if ADCs get to keep lifesteal.
> [{quoted}](name=PrinceOfStorms,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s42pIAKQ,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-03-16T00:34:47.085+0000) > > BotRK shouldn't give lifesteal and bloodthirster should be removed. Or Riot should add Will of the Ancients back into the game (and leave Vlad as-is). It's only fair that AP mages get spell vamp on items if ADCs get to keep lifesteal. I'm a Vlad main so I'd personally love that idea, but that would probably break Vladimir IMO.
: > [{quoted}](name=Toastersaot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s42pIAKQ,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-03-15T21:05:58.565+0000) > > {{champion:238}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:104}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:103}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:64}} all excel at diving into the back line and in one way or another blowing them up. > Most here don't DIVE into the back line.
> [{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s42pIAKQ,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2017-03-15T22:19:08.370+0000) > > Most here don't DIVE into the back line. Well, most of them can get upclose to the back line, release a good amount of burst, and then either escape or Tank through some damage. They still all do pretty well at killing squishies very quickly, and can get in range to do so through decent to high mobility.
: no i actually forgot her but she is still picked in the lcs too
> [{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s42pIAKQ,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-15T21:25:29.967+0000) > > no i actually forgot her but she is still picked in the lcs too Wait really? I didn't know that. I though put she was gone along with the other Crit users.
: you forgot kalista which is why she is still played in lcs and it's always the same thing, CC or vision except varus he has grievous wound which is nice
> [{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s42pIAKQ,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-03-15T21:21:01.244+0000) > > you forgot kalista which is why she is still played in lcs > and it's always the same thing, CC or vision > > except varus he has grievous wound which is nice Yeah {{champion:15}} Ult just doesn't cut it any more in 2K17.
: *most of some have utility which is nice, and i think every adc should have utility at the expense of losing damage BUT NOT THE SAME UTILITY, or they would be all similar
> [{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s42pIAKQ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-03-15T21:13:23.478+0000) > > *most of > > some have utility which is nice, and i think every adc should have utility at the expense of losing damage BUT NOT THE SAME UTILITY, or they would be all similar Hence I mentioned {{champion:22}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:110}} . They still have useful utility when behind.
: how exactly can you be the easiest person to kill in a game when you are the furthest person to reach to on your team and every adc save kogmaw has an excapes and even kog maw has a slow stronger than as big as and doing as much damage as braum's ult slow on a basic ability and ranged.
> [{quoted}](name=LordGeovanni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s42pIAKQ,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-03-15T20:47:44.101+0000) > > how exactly can you be the easiest person to kill in a game when you are the furthest person to reach to on your team and every adc save kogmaw has an exacapes and even kog maw has a slow stronger than as big as and doing as much damage as braum's ult slow on a basic ability and ranged. {{champion:238}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:104}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:103}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:64}} all excel at diving into the back line and in one way or another blowing them up. Then don't forget about those guys who can nuke you from medium-long range as well {{champion:41}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:112}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:30}}
Toshiai (NA)
: exactly why I started to play apc more
> [{quoted}](name=Toshiai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s42pIAKQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-15T19:49:37.905+0000) > > exactly why I started to play apc more This. Ziggs bot has higher base damage (he's a Mage) he has better waveclear than most ADCs, has a better early game, and takes towers just as well if not better than most ADCs. Hell, he even has more CC than most ADCs.
Rioter Comments
: Front line tanks
One of the reason I main the champion I do ({{champion:8}} ) is because if necessary I can fulfill both a Damage role or a Frontline role based on my teamcomp. I'm my team's main source of magic damage? {{item:3285}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3089}} {{item:3135}} {{item:3001}} . Am I supposed to be a strong front Liner who can soak damage? {{item:3157}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3026}} (I don't do this that often, but it works pretty well if you have some experience on Vladimir) This way, I can concentrate on things like rotations, map awareness, and objectives a bit more.
: Pick one thing out of a champion's kit that doesn't make sense.
{{champion:110}} W sort of, because why use autos when you can throw Q's from a screen away? However they recently changed it so I dunno.
CritDoge (NA)
: Let's talk Grievous Wounds (Again!)
I'm vey biased as a Vladimir main, but I like your idea, keep it up, fuck {{item:3123}} , mistake of an item just like {{champion:157}} , the Lethality changes and Anime.
: How about add some older versions of items as a new items ?
I want WoTA back. Such a unique and fun item. ~~totally not cause I main Vladimir and want spell vamp~~ /s
: Morellos has become a crutch item for mages
I can build {{item:3165}} on {{champion:8}} and it is still more than cost efficient if you include Vladimir's passive. {{item:3285}} , and item with no mana, is only 92% gold efficient on Vlad. I agree with OP.
: Then if she is so good and always picked in competitive, why isn't {{champion:61}} Nerfed too? You do have a good point though, props to you for that
> [{quoted}](name=Jargon Wan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6N2pmmlg,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-09T19:48:19.828+0000) > > Then if she is so good and always picked in competitive, why isn't {{champion:61}} Nerfed too? > > You do have a good point though, props to you for that She might. Not because she is god tier, but she may slowly become god tier because everyone around her is gettting nerfed ({{champion:7}} just got hit pretty hard, {{champion:13}} just got nerfed and will probably get nerfed some more) , so she might become number one Mid laner because everyone else get nerfed.
: True, but proposing just cause we buff an item that might be good on one champ, we have to immediately nerf that champ *cough {{champion:69}} Seems a bit ridiculous.
> [{quoted}](name=Jargon Wan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6N2pmmlg,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-03-09T19:43:55.188+0000) > > True, but proposing just cause we buff an item that might be good on one champ, we have to immediately nerf that champ *cough {{champion:69}} > Seems a bit ridiculous. So I think OP's idea is to revert the utility aspect of Rylai's, where it would slow for 40% on single target spells. Now imagine current {{champion:69}} with a 40% permaslow. OP's idea is just to recode {{champion:69}} 's E to apply the Rylai's slow for a DoT, where it is only the current 20%. So basically, her interaction with {{item:3116}} will be the same as it is now.
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Toastersaot

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