: Junglers lane camping don't feel adequetly punished in farm and level gains
I can tell you as an Elise main, there is just literally no fucking reason for us to farm when jungle camps got nerfed to give welfare XP. Like whats the point of us full clearing when we get more benefit sapping XP shoving in the waves, on top of making our own lane priority, tower plate gold, and tilting the enemy? This is why good Elise players just rush mobis and do as much ganking as possible, cause its not like the enemy jungler is going to tower us in XP and gold anyway if they farm and its not like we're gaining anything if we farm. If you were ganking, there was a tradeoff; you weren't farming and the enemy was.. the gap was atrociously high especially when devouror was a thing, but now its so narrow that the better jungler is the one that can sit in lane, make its own priority so it can extend its lead into starving the other jungler into irrelevance, Its not an Elise problem (especially since she never really got buffed into the meta, she just popped in when the level 2 junglers that abused the strat better got killed off with their nerfs and crab changes) the state of the jungler is just fucking atrocious since season 8. Not sure where you get "late game teamfight contributions" cause that's where she falls off (evident by her decline in wr over game time length). She's pretty much a cocoon bot at that point, and only thrives when a player mispositions to get picked or facechecks her, this is why she's a very tempo based champion cause she wants to end the game ASAP since a late game ADC with PD + QSS is just too much for her to contribute anything to. Yes her early game is bullshit atm, that I can give you. ___ If you want to fix the jungle, here's how: A) BUFF camp XP, what this does is makes more incentive for junglers to actually farm, what this causes junglers to do is; - never leave camps up for the enemy jungle to take as they'll tower above you if they get their camps and yours. This means more incentive to do the camps they walk past rather than straight to the next lane. - flip around what i said above; the enemy jungler will be farming more and invading camps more as they reap more benefit then simply going for the gank, making their lane presence a bit lower. - discourages rubberbanding the same 2 camps + buffs since you'll be missing even more XP from leaving the others level 1 and the rubberbanded camps themselves still won't provide comparable XP to a jungler thats full clearing all their camps. - if a jungler is very ahead in XP even in comparison to laners, well at least they didn't sit in your lane. Of course champs that can power farm that fast and sit in your lane (looking at kayn, potentially evelynn too) need tunings of their own. B) After buffing XP, **REMOVE CATCH UP EXPERIENCE** Base XP means junglers want to reset their camps and take all the camps they can get. Catch up XP basically subsitutes for having to kill a camp or two, which saves the jungler time and allows them to ignore it entirely, making the gap between a champ who does the camp and a champ or doesn't a narrower gap. By removing that crutch, the XP makes a bigger difference between the champs since now all their XP is based on their respawned camps, not their level in comparison to one or two respawned camps (where being behind somehow fucking benefits, even if you full clear as a shyvana and get level 4, the jungler who did 3-4 camps, ganked, is 80% level 3 still, and catches a level 4 respawning camp just profits more in XP and evens out with you who did the full clear. ) XP and gold was never an issue with junglers imo, all of the jungle frustration relates to ganking, and in the past, that frustration wasn't nearly as evident as it is now when we targetted jungle gold and XP to breaking point of farming being irrelevant so pressure increases to make up for it. S7's catch up system was a bad idea, nerfing base XP instead of removing catch up XP and changing crab sooner to spawn later just long term hurts the jungler and indirectly the laners as well.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: Ahri doesn't have higher pick rates than Zed, except for Masters, but that place is shady anyway, I mean Akali has a 57% win rate there while her best win rate anywhere else is 47%, there's barely any difference between them in terms of win rate, except the fact that Zed is banned so much more, even in challenger. Diamond (same order, win, pick, ban) Ahri: 51.83%, 10.7%, 6.1% Zed: 51.91%, 11.3%, 34% Masters Ahri: 56.74%, 9.2%, 3.4% Zed: 50.07%, 10.1%, 18.9% Grandmasters Ahri: 52.35%, 8.6%, 2.9% Zed: 51.87%, 9.2%, 17.4% Challenger Ahri: 55.67%, 6.2%, 2.3% Zed: 55.07%, 9.1%, 9.5% For how hard to play everyone cries he is, not having a negative win rate anywhere is a bit too strong imho.
> [{quoted}](name=Rylalei,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EWRw90A9,comment-id=0000000000000004,timestamp=2019-06-19T06:17:08.595+0000) > > For how hard to play everyone cries he is, not having a negative win rate anywhere is a bit too strong imho. Have to give credit that a lot of his playerbase actually is hard dedicated to zed. Nobody autofilled just randomly pops off with zed in challenger against a mid main. He's also way harder to pull off against players that know what grouping, punishing split pushing, and the general dos and donts of playing against an assassin are. The only real question is if he's too successful given the environment he's in, which may or may not be too high atm. In comparison to say ahri, where a lot of challenger players who pick ahri aren't dedicate to her, she's just a safe pick in general that can at least live, exist, or land a charm or do the glacial build when auto filled. When her numbers are high, you can question whether or not she's too safe for just anybody to lock in during a given meta on top of what a peak ahri player can do.
: Is there still a zero tolerance policy for certain phrases?
The biggest issue is riot's 'consistency' policy part of their player behavior system. Basically, if that player does anything reportable, they absolutely will be punished, BUT before the punishment is issued, riot snoops around to see if they consistently behave like that, and basically say 'eh ok, we'll give him the pass as long as he doesn't do it again the literal next game and also get reported there.' ____ So the system kinda looks like this; Say that this is that player in that screenshot: ____ Game 1: says nothing Game 2: (you are here and report him) Game 3: says nothing Riot: probs just a bad day Game 1: says nothing Game 2: toxic (reported) Game 3: toxic (nobody reports so riot assumes nothing happened and resets the consistency cycle) Riot: looks good to me. ____ He would have to look like this on riot's end: ____ Game 1: toxic (reported) Game 2: toxic (reported) Game 3: says nothing Riot: lets make ivern his only playable champion hehe
: I'm still for the quarantine ban idea. Toxic players get matched with exclusively toxic players. Sure some may view it as "not a solution". But it gives them a label that can be used against them. A similar thing is the only thing that keeps the toxic part of 4chan out of the rest of the site along with the internet with /pol/
> [{quoted}](name=ARequestOfDeath,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TgPEqQHO,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-06-17T18:12:31.172+0000) > > I'm still for the quarantine ban idea. Toxic players get matched with exclusively toxic players. Sure some may view it as "not a solution". But it gives them a label that can be used against them. A similar thing is the only thing that keeps the toxic part of 4chan out of the rest of the site along with the internet with /pol/ The same thing would happen to them as what happens to just flat out perma'd players; They jump on alt. accounts and unleash their built up frustration there. Prison island would instead just look like account lost and found at that point, until either the accounts get freed or the population of prison island players sticking around are so low its just normal solo queue at that point. If anything it might boost them since they can swap mentals and climb off of abusing other weak mental players instead of other competitive players.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q5bm4saK,comment-id=000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-18T18:19:02.866+0000) > > ... What? Exactly as stated. No assassin other than ekko has ever had a meta build that was bruiser.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q5bm4saK,comment-id=0002000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-18T18:19:59.717+0000) > > No assassin other than ekko has ever had a meta build that was bruiser. {{champion:105}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:245}} I don't consider Noc (diver), old Eve (grey area but mostly diver with her ult), or Yi an assassin, but literally everything else did at one point/still does do bruiser builds. Shaco - season 7 they did a trinity force build into tank items, they played mainly for split pushing and being annoying and less on assassination. Rengar - season 7 to now, there's a reason he's gotten reclassified to diver. Kha - season 7 to now has a bruiser build kha mains go when they want to just play off W evo utility and are against full tank/bruiser comps. (warrior, tabis/mercs, duskblade, cleaver, Maw/GA , Deadman's/visage) Fizz - season 6 (onhit fizz top, and i think sunfire fizz was a thing at one point too before ekko proved he was better at it.) Ekko - season 6 (tankko)
: To be honest a lot of people have been calling for the tribunal to come back. The game seemed much more enjoyable when it was around. I have also seen it mentioned that they should allow people to dl these games and watch them to make a decision on if that player should be banned. But this was right after they took the tribunal out of League.
> [{quoted}](name=Dromar421,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=aGtV3WM4,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-15T21:31:28.935+0000) > > To be honest a lot of people have been calling for the tribunal to come back. The game seemed much more enjoyable when it was around. I have also seen it mentioned that they should allow people to dl these games and watch them to make a decision on if that player should be banned. But this was right after they took the tribunal out of League. The main problem with the tribunal was that there was: a) no incentive for the playerbase to actually care and review the games/chats/contribute meaningfully anyway. b) when there was incentive (rewards) players would just get ban happy to collect the bounty. Making for a clash between those who cared and those who didn't so in the end it was a biased system. Asking for tribunal back is the playerbase's way of saying 'the community should set the standards for levels of severity', tbh I'm pretty sure majority of the playerbase would still consider strats like teemo, singed, and the nunu player did too frustrating to work with, especially nunu/singed where they got banned for being reported multiple times as opposed to nightblue3's ego 'i know a rioter' attack. At being said at least Nb3 wouldn't have riot immunity and we could ban him as well.
Kai Guy (NA)
: I am curious to know if any of it was because {{champion:92}} was made to appeal to Fighter Game players. Animation and Attack Canceling are pretty core parts to those games. I feel like her In kit animation Cancels where put there intentionally and it was just some Items coding that was unintended.
iirc she was built as a fighting game-like character, but not in the sense of animation cancelling. I don't think players knew animation canceling was a thing with her release until later on when eventually everybody figured out you could animation cancel auto attacks with spells with any champion. The E wait 0.15sec - > ability animation cancel riven has on the other hand is a bit questionable since that was implemented in recent years and its hard to tell if it was intentional or not.
Alhtabouras (EUNE)
: Shyvana could use e even though she were stunned by jax
She got the animation off before she was even stunned lol
Weensw (NA)
: Out of every single champion, who can give the best leash?
Its a complex question because every champ offers different potential when it comes to leashing.. Enchanters can keep you from taking damage, or heal off the damage you took. Tanks (ali, braum, Leo) can tank or CC a camp to deny damage being deal to you Control Mages (heim, Zyra) can spawn units to tank aggro entirely, and melt the camp, infact so fast they're at risk of stealing it. and of course, some junglers are just really good at doing camps so it hardly matters who leashes them they're usually really healthy and fast at taking it anyway. Even if you put said junglers in another position to leash for the actual jungler, they're still going to give strong leashes or they're going to do very little in comparison due to starting items mattering. Would be hard to pinpoint what the definition for 'a perfect leash' would be; the healthiest level 1, the fastest level 1 leash, the most consistent level 1 leash (since we can imagine with enough practice everybody can have a healthy and fast level 1 if done properly), smite involvement?, etc.
iWuTaylor (EUW)
: you think that's funny? You must laugh a lot when they give you trolls
I'm in diamond elo and get 'trolls/ebay' nearly every game, its in every mmr and bronze if anything would be the easiest to deal with since nobody knows how to abuse the leads they get off of a guy who's clearly trolling.
iWuTaylor (EUW)
: wtf is the point of bronze?
I've never ended a season in bronze, and i have around 300 games of being in bronze from when I started out. If you can't 1v9 against players that in theory have less macro and mechanical sense than you, than you're just reflecting what elo you're in. Coinflips do exist, but not in that elo.
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Tormentula,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ERKEV7O4,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-07T22:01:07.632+0000) > > High elo rengar is an absolute nightmare to play against. He's actually banned by challenger players all the time just because going against a rengar main is hell (IWD as one example, for somebody that meta slaves he perma bans rengar despite having a decent champ pool against him. NB3 doesn't ban him but he also plays him consistently). > > He's not as weak as you'd think once you peak his skill ceiling. A rengar player that knows how to counter gank early, utilitize his empowered abilities, and select his moments to go in (the biggest gap between high elo and low elo assassin players) make him one of the most oppressive assassins in the game. > > His biggest weakness is mainly his jungle clear early on (rengar main know how to kite their camps really well), and his general early presence (jungle mains know how to predict enemy junglers and countergank them, powerfarm, or even pull off ganks anyway since rengar's empowered E is incredibly good if you save it for after they flash.) 1.4% ban rate......plus, he's barely played in jungle rn, he's almost always played as a bruiser top, and he's not particularly impressive rn, he has an okay winrate as a bruiser, but he definitely needs some changes, i have played tons of rengar and i can barely win as him now a days, i feel safer playing a champ are barely played over rengar, anymore indirect nerfs and rengar will fall into the same state as azir was (like ffs, people are building zhonyas on him just to survive rn)
Again, the skill gap between a low elo assassin main is massive compared to high elo. Also not really sure where you're getting your 1.4% number, [he's consistent been between 12% to 16% banrate globally in masters+ all week long](https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/master/plus/champion/Rengar), with his banrates skyrocketing in NA and EUW while its lows are in Korea (still around 3%). That's 1200-1600 times per week rengar gets banned assuming you sample 10,000 games in masters+. If you take for example; Kayn, a more viable assassin / bruiser atm, his global masters+ banrate is only between 4-8% throughout the week with double rengar's pickrate (counting top). Despite Kayn being more viable, stronger, and easier to pick up, its more agreeable that rengar when in the right hands is still more problematic enough to warrante being banned, hence why he's too unhealthy to really buff given that he clearly can climb, carry, and become hard to stop even in the top tiers when in the proper hands. Another thing; in every region rengar is picked more in the jungle than top. I don't disagree that he isn't top tier, and that he's barely middle tier, but straight up buffing him with his unhealthy kit is not a good solution to bring an already problematic champ up to speed with what is top tier atm. The most they could do is assist his jungle clear but even now, good rengars clear really well with proper kiting, utilizing plants for passive stacks before ganks and before doing certain camps, and efficient usage of their empowered abilities.
: Rengar honestly feels like the worst champion in the game right now
High elo rengar is an absolute nightmare to play against. He's actually banned by challenger players all the time just because going against a rengar main is hell (IWD as one example, for somebody that meta slaves he perma bans rengar despite having a decent champ pool against him. NB3 doesn't ban him but he also plays him consistently). He's not as weak as you'd think once you peak his skill ceiling. A rengar player that knows how to counter gank early, utilitize his empowered abilities, and select his moments to go in (the biggest gap between high elo and low elo assassin players) make him one of the most oppressive assassins in the game. His biggest weakness is mainly his jungle clear early on (rengar main know how to kite their camps really well), and his general early presence (jungle mains know how to predict enemy junglers and countergank them, powerfarm, or even pull off ganks anyway since rengar's empowered E is incredibly good if you save it for after they flash. They also know how to utilitize jungle camps and jungle plants to prep their empowered abilities before ganks or before doing a different camp.) I'd say you might be doing something wrong either with your macro or your mechanics, rengar definitely can 1v9 in the right hands, I've been experiencing it all season cause there's so many rengar otps in diamond in both top and jg, and at least 7/10 of them utterly shit on me and my teams.
: What is one skin you always forget exists?
{{champion:77}}'s base skin Since his ultimate is the only skin I ever see and it looks like a VU lol EDIT: holy shit i completely forgot about dunkmaster ivern already, just remembered it when scrolling through a list of recent skins.
: > [{quoted}](name=Need Gold 4 Tent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=if6d9NcG,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-25T05:36:40.025+0000) > > NyEh HAh bUt hAcHiNcHin RiVeN is A hIgH sKiLL cAP cHAmpIoN. YoU... yOu nEeD t0 aNiMatIon CaNcEL wItH hER What, these are the 'combos' I have heard so much about? This is LITERALLY what you do with every champion, but when it is with Riven it gets special terminology? (flashback: Olaf(?) game, Q move AA E move AA animation cancelling combo <1.2s)
With riven its a bit different. There's a hidden mechanic in her E that allows her to cancel her next spell's animation E - > wait at least 0.15 seconds - > R1/2 or W - > the next ability on cast will break out of the first ability's animation (think of it like 'QSSing' the animation). This allows her to essentially "doublecast" her abilities so she can stun and Q at the same time, or prep ult and move in at the same time.. or burst with R2 while moving. This is why riven has a lot more animation cancelling, since most champs can animation cancel their auto but that E mask enables her even more combos, since you can press Q + R2 + Tiamet in the same frame thanks to it. Visuals timestamped under doublecast: https://youtu.be/tIGCPybXWHQ?t=8
Rylalei (EUNE)
: Old Akali was still in the game with the new runes, so she also had access to RH + ToB, so heal wise they were pretty much equal, but with a caviat. Although they both healed around the same amount, the fact that N Akali could heal from range is a big plus over O Akali. O would put herself more in danger as she needed to auto attack to heal, while N simply had to hit at least 1 creep to get the full healing, so a more reasonable nerf would be to tune the healing based on how many targets were hit, so if she hits just 1 creep, it's not as rewarding as hitting the whole wave, something akin to what Ahri has on her Q, but yes, in a way N was more excessive over O.
Ah ok, that does make a lot more sense with the safety value, melee vs. Q heal does raise some questions like 'what if the heal was on passive' or your suggestion.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: I agree with you with all except 1 point, but that's questionable. You said Akali has Ravenous + ToB + her own healing. Her healing got removed, now she doesn't have any more innate healing, so you are wrong there, unless you ment Gunblade, then you correct fully.
I was focusing mainly on why they gutted that, she could take rav+tob+Q healing+doran's shield passive/damage reduction, which when you stacked all of them was a bit much when you consider her trading ability via shroud and Q. OP wanted them to give her a scaling heal but the problem was the fact there was an additional heal source in general rather than the fine tunings. Old Akali correct me if i'm wrong only had her old passive and the vampirism mastery, making new akali a bit more excessive. I didn't really factor in gunblade
: Skarner rework proposal
Just throwing a random idea here; What if when Skarner ults, he instead burrows and drags his opponent under ground (turning both of you untargetable), but when the ultimate ends him and the target both pop out of the ground? The philosophy is this enables skarner to pull somebody without getting focus down (you run in, flash in, whatever but the entire team just CC's you) and it reduces some frustration (the opponent is CC'd, but they're not getting focused down by the entire enemy team during the CC while being dragged into skarner's team.). This also gives strategic value since now there's a legitmate reason to ult the tank or support or anyone for the sake of just keeping them out of the fight so your team can go for the back line or something, maybe removing the anti-engage so your engage can well.. engage. Gives skarner a bit more depth, and more options in the case of 'well who the fuck do I ult now their carries got QSS.'
Tioym (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Tormentula,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=000c00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T03:45:05.664+0000) > > Because they're all different Elos, there's a difference between the top 12 players of one champion having positive winrates **_in challenger_** and the top 12 being mostly diamond or masters. > > So yes, they do prove akali is a strong high elo champ in comparison to something like trundle which is mostly only positive in diamond. > > Its not cherry picking if its the truth, understand the context, and understand how stats work then disprove them. Or even just play a game in high elo to see the outcome for yourself. I'm not saying Akali needs to be buffed. I'm saying they need to stop nerfing her further. So No your stats prove nothing. You can Look up the Top 10 Player stats for almost every champion and see very high winrates. Does that mean Every fucking champion now needs to be nerfed? How come Top 10 *Insert Champion* Player can have a 60% winrate but when a Top 10 Akali Player gets that you think to yourself: Wow fucking broken better remove. So No Your stats do not prove anything. It's just you twisting things to suit your argument. No Point having an argument with you because you're biased and you will only twist things to prove your point. Good Job.
> [{quoted}](name=Tioym,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=000c000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T04:31:14.427+0000) > > I'm not saying Akali needs to be buffed. I'm saying they need to stop nerfing her further. So No your stats prove nothing. No one said she needed buffs. As for needing nerfs, I wouldn't say the term nerf is appropriate, more or less powershifts or a straight up redo of her kit. >You can Look up the Top 10 Player stats for almost every champion and see very high winrates. You missed the point If you can't identify the difference between this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581257949524262932/unknown.png and this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581340419145728004/unknown.png Then don't bother trying to come up with logic. That doesn't mean one needs nerfs, or one needs buffs, that means akali, does succeed more in challenger, where as other champions don't succeed much at all in challenger despite lower skill floors. You started this topic, how do you fail to keep up with it? >Does that mean Every fucking champion now needs to be nerfed? Dodges the point > How come Top 10 *Insert Champion* Player can have a 60% winrate but when a Top 10 Akali Player >gets that you think to yourself: Wow fucking broken better remove. Dodges the point because if the top peak of the leaderboards feel the need to ban a champion, and that said champion does infact do significantly better at that peak where assumingly everybody should know how to counter it, but it doesn't do well in lower MMRs, its literally Azir syndrome where the champ is toxic and if it is performing well, its probably too strong and warranted enough to nerf or adjust it. This isn't the case because if trundle has a 60% winrate, but mostly only in diamond and masters, thats not the peak performance, thats him succeeding in less coordinated lower MMR where players make mistakes that he can punish, that doesn't make trundle good infact he's pretty shit right now. There's no reason to nerf something because low diamond can't handle it, but there is a big issue if high challenger can't handle it to the point they're banning it since again, that's a sign maybe there isn't counterplay after all. As for other champs that are all challenger peak performance; Jayce (oh wait he is getting nerfed on PBE), Aatrox (hot damn, how many nerfs has he gotten already?), Riven (nerfs on PBE), Vayne (nerfs on PBE) must be akali exclusive. > It's just you twisting things to suit your argument. https://www.potterybarn.com/pbimgs/rk/images/dp/wcm/201849/0387/kensington-pivot-oval-mirror-o.jpg > No Point having an argument with you because you're biased and you will only twist things to prove your point. Good Job. Imagine being hardstuck denial. I think you should focus on practicing playing the game and less on debates because somehow your conversation skills are worse than your game experience. I should just say 'nah you're biased' anytime i'm wrong, I wonder how far that'll get me {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
Tioym (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Tormentula,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=000c000200000000,timestamp=2019-05-23T23:22:43.724+0000) > > where are you seeing 49% 'mains'? > > You mean in this screenshot? > > https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581238486707994675/unknown.png > > cause that's the collective number, not the 'mains' number. The 'mains' number is actually the 56% as that's the number collected from high elo mains of the champions. > > The average of these stats: > > https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581257949524262932/unknown.png > > That's not unrewarding to master if every 'master' is having a productive success rate, with the average expectancy of peak performance being 56.5%. It'd be unrewarding if you didn't have productive stats (such as trundle where 3 of the top 12 are D4, 2 are D1, 2 masters, 3 GM, and only 2 are challenger, showing its a lot less productive to get anywhere above an average of diamond or masters by picking up trundle in the current meta). > > Problem is ravenous hunter + taste of blood + doran's shield + akali's own healing. It puts her at an edge over other laners (especially top laners) given they couldn't even trade back with her due to the empowered auto range, Q range, and shroud. > > It'd be a different story maybe if she didn't have the best escape tools and trading tools on top of sustain, but all of that at once is too much. > > Its a serious mess of a kit, everything about it is problematic.. the Q spam is toxic, the empowered auto bonus range is toxic, the shroud mechanic was her biggest problem to begin with pre and post rework, and even gutted its still toxic, the E 2nd cast isn't that much of a problem but the knock back effect is way too good, and the ult giving two charges of untargeted dashes makes her incredibly too slippery and hard to punish/avoid. She needs back to the drawing board cause no matter how weak she is, if an akali is good enough to identify a situation they can still bullshit their way out of unfavorable scenarios, sometimes with a positive outcome. The Problem is not Akali's Healing. There are dozens of other champions with the same amount of healing. This is not the Problem Your Stats Prove NOTHING. Look up Stats for the top 10 players for *ANY FUCKING CHAMPION*. You will see a high winrate in all of them. Stop trying to twist things to your advantage. Stop trying to cherry pick a few people out of context to support your argument.
> [{quoted}](name=Tioym,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=000c0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T03:00:14.927+0000) > > Your Stats Prove NOTHING. Look up Stats for the top 10 players for *ANY FUCKING CHAMPION*. Because they're all different Elos, there's a difference between the top 12 players of one champion having positive winrates **_in challenger_** and the top 12 being mostly diamond or masters. So yes, they do prove akali is a strong high elo champ in comparison to something like trundle which is mostly only positive in diamond. Its not cherry picking if its the truth, understand the context, and understand how stats work then disprove them. Or even just play a game in high elo to see the outcome for yourself.
GripaAviara (EUNE)
: 49% at a master level mains? you're proving the exact opposite. You have a hard champion that offers little reward for mastering. They don't need to buff Akali, just make her less punishing. Akali needs a little buff to middle/late game sustain. Her initial heal was great at that point but broken early. They just needed to offer her a scaling AP+AD heal on passive
> [{quoted}](name=GripaAviara,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=000c00020000,timestamp=2019-05-23T22:56:55.307+0000) > > 49% at a master level mains? where are you seeing 49% 'mains'? You mean in this screenshot? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581238486707994675/unknown.png cause that's the collective number, not the 'mains' number. The 'mains' number is actually the 56% as that's the number collected from high elo mains of the champions. The average of these stats: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581257949524262932/unknown.png That's not unrewarding to master if every 'master' is having a productive success rate, with the average expectancy of peak performance being 56.5%. It'd be unrewarding if you didn't have productive stats (such as trundle where 3 of the top 12 are D4, 2 are D1, 2 masters, 3 GM, and only 2 are challenger, showing its a lot less productive to get anywhere above an average of diamond or masters by picking up trundle in the current meta). >They don't need to buff Akali, just make her less punishing. Akali needs a little buff to middle/late game sustain. Her initial heal was great at that point but broken early. They just needed to offer her a scaling AP+AD heal on passive Problem is ravenous hunter + taste of blood + doran's shield + akali's own healing. It puts her at an edge over other laners (especially top laners) given they couldn't even trade back with her due to the empowered auto range, Q range, and shroud. It'd be a different story maybe if she didn't have the best escape tools and trading tools on top of sustain, but all of that at once is too much. Its a serious mess of a kit, everything about it is problematic.. the Q spam is toxic, the empowered auto bonus range is toxic, the shroud mechanic was her biggest problem to begin with pre and post rework, and even gutted its still toxic, the E 2nd cast isn't that much of a problem but the knock back effect is way too good, and the ult giving two charges of untargeted dashes makes her incredibly too slippery and hard to punish/avoid. She needs back to the drawing board cause no matter how weak she is, if an akali is good enough to identify a situation they can still bullshit their way out of unfavorable scenarios, sometimes with a positive outcome.
Tioym (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-23T12:36:20.966+0000) > > "oh no!! they're nerfing my champion because of pro play!!" > "nerfing a X% win rate champion" > > Akali is incredibly overpowered when played by a skilled player. Don't try to get statistic, don't try to search further than what it is. Akali mains that played the champion hundreds of times above master have like 60%-70% win rate on her. > > It's like {{champion:268}} over and over again, where people refuse to get good on the champion and blame high elo/pro play for nerfing their broken champion. > This is not going to change, {{champion:268}} was always like that and will remain like that. Akali is an other example of a champion balanced around skilled players > just like how {{champion:35}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:19}} are balanced around low elo and got nerfed despite never being OP in pro play. > > People need after so many years to understand that in every moba, you have characters balanced around different tiers of MMR. 6.86 Arc Warden in dota2 had 30% win rate and got nerfed because of fucking Alexthefool who had **94% WIN RATE ON HIM** in high MMR. > > If you want to play Akali, don't complain about her nerf and try to become better at her. Who are these Skilled Players you speak of? Winrates do not mean EVERYTHING but Let's still have a look because they are more reliable than someone's Opinion. If Skilled Players are **Challengers** then How do you explain this: **Kennen 4.7% Pick Rate Roughly 60% Winrate** **Sona 7.2% Pick Rate Roughly 59% Winrate** **Akali 7.5% Pick Rate Roughly 45% Winrate** I DON'T SEE A HIGH WINRATE LOL. The Trend should be that her winrate goes up as you go up the Ladder but that's not really happening. There are DOZENS of champions in challenger that have a considerably higher winrate than Akali. Heck she has one of the lowest winrates even in Challenger which is just stupid if you bother to think about it. All you do is Whine how "SKILLED" Akali Players are unstoppable but the Stats don't show it. You're pulling stuff out of your arse. She does not win in Low-Elo and she does not win in High Elo. The Only reason she's actually getting a fucking nerf is because she's Pick/Ban in Pro--Play. That's why Akali Players are Raging: Once again Riot is Balancing the game for Pro-Play and not for the Miliions of players that actually play the damn game.
You're ranting how winrates, but neglect that the sample pools in high MMR are significantly smaller. What you're assuming is akali's pickrate are ALL experienced Akali players, but that's far from the truth since challenger is only the top 200 players and there's only so many mains/otps of each champion in that sample pool. Realistically, 2% maybe are OTPs with high winrates, where as the rest are either a) autofilled b) new to the champ and practicing it, and c) still accounting for the losses veterans would get. Ban rates are also something you can account for potentially making her playerbase even small than that, and only left open for comps built around/against her. Sona's statistics in comparison show she's was more accessible to both veterans of her, and players that are picking her up/autofilled, considering her skill floor and skill ceiling, this makes more sense. She's also not banned nearly as much since she's not that threatening in high elo. Kennen's statistics show less people actually play him so a larger fraction of his player base are veterans. Also not too sure what your source is, but in chally + akali seems way higher than those stats (among jax of all things): NA challenger: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581237503831441408/unknown.png Filtered for global masters+ : https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581238486707994675/unknown.png Global masters+ with a visible banrate (and the filter says normal + ranked? Does it seriously count normal games on this site?). also goes to show not all sites are similar, or that akali really does peak at challenger level. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581239688254193665/unknown.png
FireDrizzle (EUNE)
: Nerfing a champ because they are powerful if mastered is ok but they shouldnt nerf because they are only strong with coordination from teammates.
> [{quoted}](name=FireDrizzle,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AQmiZB2W,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-23T13:06:08.836+0000) > > Nerfing a champ because they are powerful if mastered is ok but they shouldnt nerf because they are only strong with coordination from teammates. Its depends, In hindsight, if something is broken with coordination then its just clearly broken for something, and you can't nerf coordination from the game to fix it. {{champion:421}} was nerfed for this same reason, rek'sai was broken due to coordination on top of her other strengths, and this put the champ in a really bad position (do they nerf all the aspects until the fighter ends up just becoming a tank knock up bot with broken tremor sense coordination, or do they fix the part that obviously has issues so they can focus on the other areas of the kit?) Its kinda the same problem with {{champion:98}} {{champion:3}}, if they have any form of coordination they're just too good regardless of their numbers, which leaves them in terrible states since their numbers have to be gutted for the sake of balancing out their solo carrying potential vs. their supportive qualities that break them. If they have access to both than they're just broken.
Mr Meat (OCE)
: When is Riot going to take a serious look at shaco?
Shaco is one of those champs that needs nerfs to his abilities to make room for buffs. He's too cheesed based and when a champ is cheese based, they're either broken to be good because you can't really counter the playstyle/kit, or piss weak because its acknowledged that the champ is better left in a bad state for the sake of skill based competitive gameplay. Like he does not have a lot of counterplay, he's just so shit that he isn't useful but he still is frustrating and uninteractive to play against, especially now that they patched out the ability to level 1 cheese his boxes. I think shaco would be healthier if his Q was more like kayn E, let him go invisible and ignore terrain/unit collision instead of being a straight up free flash+invis+extra damage ability that makes it impossible to punish him, allows him to take ignite, and allows him to cheese gank level 2. Do that and you could add 50 damage to his E for all I care. If they buffed shaco with the current kit he has now, they'll just end up gutting it immidiately after lol... you'd be surprised how many people in my MMR (d2) actually perma ban shaco just because even the mains up here are too painful to even deal with, despite how bad he is. >He has no wave clear This I disagree with considering the typical shaco build buys {{item:3077}} and he split pushes really well with it. His first clear before it kinda sucks, but you're mostly playing to gank early on like camille jg and i think shaco's clear still isn't as bad as her's. Not to mention how fast his clone helps him split push on top of it. In the past {{item:3087}} was sometimes also bought. >His stealth is a blink that does less damage than a katarina shunpo shunpo doesn't turn kat invisible and shunpo requires a unit to target the ability on where as Q is anywhere he pleases. Not a fair comparison. >His ulti is incredibly situational, and is easily outplayed if you just click on it and see which shaco is real/look at marks/buffs/auto damage I thought all that stuff showed up on the clone too, or at least it did when I last played him. EDIT: Yep they do show: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/581206527411748894/unknown.png only thing different is the MS.
: Cant even remember what dft did...
: it's actually pretty powerful and works wonders with the AD thresh builds, typically what is taken top but he's so versatile he can do almost anything
That sounds pretty wintrade ngl. Especially when Nautilus top or other AD champs like Urgot, Aatrox, and irelia have more engage, power, and utility.
: yes, and my comment was not about them being manaless but instead showing that there are lots of ranged champions toplane who function similarly to those mentioned resource management is pretty nonexistent now anyway, especially with so many champions having practically free abilities. Thresh gets an empowered auto every few seconds as an example
Àéry (NA)
: The jungler rarely should be the one to have the herald, typically top or mid takes it to exert pressure so the jungle can do dragon or take an objective. Plus Control Wards.
I always take herald because the mid/top aren't going to be roaming as aggressively as say, the one who's going to take herald and immidiately go gank a lane and pop it, guaranteeing a 2v1 or 3v2 scenario rather than say, the laners attempting to use it themselves 1v1 especially if you don't plan on coming back to it is a waste. If you give it to a laner, they won't have wards to ward their own lane, they won't have oracles to sweep (if given to the support but every jg should have oracles already, even some lees rely on control wards instead.), and they won't use it efficiently since now you're forced to save it for when a gank happens or forced to use it in that specific lane, giving the enemy time to prep playing around where as a jungler can choose where.
: TFW you get 80% KP but still can't carry because they have a front line and you don't
: Alright everyone let's see your Yuumi builds
So far, I tried; {{item:3098}} {{item:3504}} {{item:3107}} {{item:3174}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3089}} With runes; Guardian, Font of Life, Bone Plating, Revitalize, Manaflow, Absolute Focus Thought process was to give me some slight survivability with resolve runes and increase sustain through them. Absolute focus + deathcap are mainly for the passive part of her W, the adaptive conversion gives your carry a ton of AD, and absolute focus is pretty easy to keep in range due to being untargetable most of the time. We lost that game as me and my kayn turbo inted with zoomies + shadow step and lost the entire game off of getting caught once and him giving a draven all his shutdown gold. Then I took her mid with this build against a talon; {{item:2033}} {{item:3030}} {{item:3905}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3157}} (game ended before i finished hourglass) With the same rune setup as a glacial augment ahri. We won that game and I actually put in a lot of work despite having the worst wave clear and lasting i've ever experienced. I also took TP so I could recall with my top laner, attach, follow their tp in the middle of the wave, and just goon their top laner with R. ######that play literally didn't work because yuumi's damage is fucking awful and it was a riven that dashed and shielded away despite getting hit by our everything.
: #REWARD 1 TRICKS New Mastery 8 for one tricks or people who play the champ alot
At least if riot does give reconition to one tricks, please let it be optional (ie, only level up to 8 if you manually craft it, not automatically hit a threshold)
: It's actually not uncommon for software projects to fall behind schedule even with good planning. Testing, writing the code, designing, fixing bugs, etc all can make the project take significantly more time. This happens across all companies not just Riot. Throwing more money at it doesn't guarantee these problems won't happen.
Also would it be possible given all the controversy going on that riot is short on staff/not putting their all into these projects? For all we know half the guys working on the toggle could've left and they figured short handed wouldn't be feasible in time.
: Small Diana Gameplay changes coming to PBE
Is this a stealth nerf to diana? The R Q interaction is fine, the problem is AP bruisers have no good itemization and diana is the poster child of AP divers, you either have to adjust her numbers in a way where full burst isn't better and she gains more from building health (her shield value should scale with health not AP) or actually address how shit AP diver itemization is in comparison to AD diver itemization. Increase her base values, lower her ratios, and congratulations she's not an assassin and you can build her into a bruiser from there. How she becomes good as a bruiser with no tools available is the biggest problem that I honestly don't know how to fix considering if AD divers in mid lane aren't good, there is no way an AP diver will shine and in the jungle evelynn/nidalee/elise are just better.
: Or with immortality you could repeatedly jump out of window out of frustration
Or give it to yas so he can't feed and reach his 10 death power spike.
: Zac changes coming to PBE for 9.11
While the old ult was infinitely better since the current one is super counterable (or busted as fuck if it is allowed to succeed), the new Q is what bothers me most about the zac rework. It not only feels clunky, but a bit overkill since old zac was historically a good champion and with the added CC it pushed him over the edge while making him feel less fun to play (just like the rengar Q rework which overbuffed his clears, his AoE damage, but felt shittier to use). Zac pretty much was always his E and his R, since his E is just ridiculously strong with its range and knockup as CC. I'm surprised power was never taken out of his E when adding all this stuff to his kit. imo revert the Q, or alternatively do what ShadowParker suggested and make it similar to pyke Q/Poppy R, which makes jungle clearing, and just poking/wave clearing much more satisfying, and the utilization of whether to hold the cast or quick cast it an addition to his skill ceiling. We can at least give benefit of the doubt and see what current zac Q paired with old zac R looks like for a bit.
: I'd imagine that Morde would be held off for a patch or two. Yuumi will be arriving to Live Servers in patch 9.10 & Mordekaiser may completely overshadow her if he was released in the following patch.
> [{quoted}](name=Boss Corgi,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=sWxHP0IA,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-05-12T01:33:11.965+0000) > > I'd imagine that Morde would be held off for a patch or two. Yuumi will be arriving to Live Servers in patch 9.10 & Mordekaiser may completely overshadow her if he was released in the following patch. Urgot got revealed almost an entire week before kayn hit live servers.
: In honor of Yuumi, the Magical Cat
{{champion:60}} The spider women {{champion:28}} The reason we have a T rating {{champion:103}} The death sound {{champion:106}} {{champion:89}} The sun women {{champion:37}} The eye candy {{champion:119}} The Alpha {{champion:105}} The slippery little shit {{champion:14}} The juggernaut {{champion:157}} The mastery {{champion:201}} The good guy {{champion:86}} The alright guy {{champion:42}} The short guy {{champion:30}} The outplay {{champion:72}} The forgotten
: The Boards should organize a walkout!
Sounds fun, I'll join you at lunch time.
: > [{quoted}](name=Tormentula,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=lEnnmqHA,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-05-09T23:26:07.921+0000) > > But what if they gave you the embodiment of nightmares a gun? {{champion:56}} > > That's like.. > > your worst nightmare with a gun! Heresy. Nocturne is a dumb fartcloud who can't even hold a gun Give Fiddlesticks a Gun 2020.
bu-but.. Spiders with guns! Zombies with guns!.. Edward gunnerhands! Being buried alive... inside a gun!
: Vote Fiddlesticks so That They Can Give Fiddlesticks the One Thing he TRULY Needs...
But what if they gave you the embodiment of nightmares a gun? {{champion:56}} That's like.. your worst nightmare with a gun!
: [Discussion] Which Champion do you think is going to win next years VGU?
I feel like I'd be doing an injustice to vote and make riot rush a VGU. idk, just doesn't feel right to vote out of a pool of VGUs when they originally picked them based on what they were most confident on gameplay direction with (and if they knew exactly what to do with all 5 of these, then they could confidently say they'd just do them next instead of 'we might move on to others'). Personally I wish shyvana got changed, there's still a handfull of shyvana playerbase and she's incredibly weak to the point she's just building mage right now.
: > its this concept called counterplay. I'm not an eight-year-old, I know what counterplay is. And on that note I still think Kindred has way to much of it. Think of champions like Master Yi, if Master Yi got what I'm calling the "Kindred Counterplay Treatment" he would; 1. Appear on the minimap whenever he used ult 2. All enemies near Yi would get a visual indicator telling them that Yi just ulted. 3. When Yi ults, all enemies would also get an attack and movement speed buff just like his Kindred is a testament to the fact that that not all champions are created with equally viable kits. Kindred has so much counter-play that a Jungler with half a brain can completely stop Kindred from ever getting stacks. > if only kindred is given that information, that's a huge disadvantage to the opponent who has absolutely no interaction to be able to deny that mark. You say this, yet Veigar, Nasus, and Rengar all have the ability to stack, yet have no indicator of what stacks they are going after next. How come Kindred is the odd one out who shows enemies where stacks are? > Because that wouldn't make sense??? lol?? Kindred is a hyper carry that needs counterplay so it doesn't 1v9 at the press of a button. Imagine ranged tryndamere with runaans, thats what you're asking for. Raka essentially gives up a teamslot just to heal allies, it doesn't need to heal opponents because her kit dedicated to doing basically one thing is already the drawback. Despite your loling, my point still stands, Kindred's ult at the end of the day is **making your opponents invincible**, there is no context in any situation, **ever**, where making your opponents invincible is a good thing. The fact that Kindred has an ultimate that is equally beneficial to both teams completely invalidates any usefulness it might have, it still stands that it is a total waste of an ability that does nothing but give your enemy multiple chances to kill you as soon as it's duration ends. It needs to be changed, if that means it's nerfed or gutted then fine. I would rather have an ultimate that benefits me and my team very little than one that give my opponents equal benefits. Finally a quick question > the entire gold funneling strat with taric+yi (ranged yi mind you, i fucking played against this 3 times TODAY and the mere thought of another one tilts me even more) When the fuck did they make Yi ranged? Either you or riot must be smoking that pack.
> [{quoted}](name=zeskgames,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ie6Zf4Ex,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-05-08T02:46:11.474+0000) > > >And on that note I still think Kindred has way to much of it. >Think of champions like Master Yi, if Master Yi got what I'm calling the "Kindred Counterplay Treatment" he would; > 1. Appear on the minimap whenever he used ult y? lol. Yi's ult is not why he's broken. Kindred's passive and ult are why they are considered broken and that correlates to why those parts have counterplay. > 2. All enemies near Yi would get a visual indicator telling them that Yi just ulted. Its kinda fucking obvious if you have eyes LOL > 3. When Yi ults, all enemies would also get an attack and movement speed buff just like his tbh nobody would probably notice this change. Consider yi wins most duels anyway and that buff doesn't do shit for non-adcs/hyper carries. He'd still come on top due to red smite. Again the ult isn't the problem with yi so there's no reason for that to offer counterplay. The problem with yi would stem from either his E true damage, Q untargability, double auto passive, or damage reduction W, or even synergy with items for that matter (double procs of true damage+faster passive+faster CD Q with guinsoo's). If counterplay is needed, thats where to target. Kindred's itemization, W, and E, aren't problematic as the E can be dodged, the W can be kited out of or ignore because it does little anyway, but the mark system is what gives kindred the range, ability scalings, and the ult is what can turn winning scenarios into losing ones even if the kindred is 0/10 merely by ulting before dying and then bringing you low enough only to flash out and kite you out and suddenly come back into the game. _____ > Kindred is a testament to the fact that that not all champions are created with equally viable kits. What the fuck... lmfao That's a joke right? No champ has an equally viable kit to the other. If you played league competitively as long as anyone else, you'd know every champ has shown in the spotlight repeatedly and gone out as well. Kindred actually has a history of being picked A LOT, at release and in both 2018 and 2019 LCS. In patch 9.8 alone, kindred has been picked 29 times in LCS. For comparisons: {{champion:64}} picked: 13 {{champion:421}} picked: 35 {{champion:60}} picked: 7 {{champion:59}} picked: 36 {{champion:30}} picked: 9 {{champion:113}} picked: 17 {{champion:79}} picked: 10 {{champion:120}} picked: 26 PLUS Kindred was banned 20 times, https://lol.gamepedia.com/Kindred/Ban_History please do research. You're right about one thing, not all kits are equal in viability, cause kindred is eons better then most of them lmfao. ____ > Kindred has so much counter-play that a Jungler with half a brain can completely stop Kindred from ever getting stacks. Clearly that's why they're so successful in Korean masters+ https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/389945345594884098/575522751767379969/unknown.png ___ > You say this, yet Veigar, Nasus, and Rengar all have the ability to stack, yet have no indicator of what stacks they are going after next. How come Kindred is the odd one out who shows enemies where stacks are? Because they're in a fucking lane where they get stacks for last hitting with abilities or hitting you. Even rengar you can check by clicking on him and hovering the ability icon, you don't play around these champs stacking you just play the game with the intention of ending before they stack too much, or in rengars case, just play to survive regardless of the stacking mechanic at all as it caps the moment he assist in at least a single teamfight anyway. Their counterplay is clear; fucking win, bully them early on, don't get hit by spells, stay out of range or buy QSS, group up so they don't single you out. Kindred as a jungler is less clear because you can't necessarily stop them from doing their thing especially if they understand what lane priority, vision control/sweeping, objective trading, and they can hyper carry if they do get those stacks (nasus, rengar, and veigar can't really kite and rip teamfights apart as they are mainly single targeted burst, a kindred ahead with runaan's, mark range boost, and with peel will basically carry to the extent of a marksmen.) _____ > Despite your loling, my point still stands, Kindred's ult at the end of the day is **making your opponents invincible**, there is no context in any situation, **ever**, where making your opponents invincible is a good thing. The fact that Kindred has an ultimate that is equally beneficial to both teams completely invalidates any usefulness it might have, it still stands that it is a total waste of an ability that does nothing but give your enemy multiple chances to kill you as soon as it's duration ends. It needs to be changed, if that means it's nerfed or gutted then fine. I would rather have an ultimate that benefits me and my team very little than one that give my opponents equal benefits. You don't understand how to use it that's why lol. I remember when bard had this same argument years ago, good times. ___ > Finally a quick question > When the fuck did they make Yi ranged? Either you or riot must be smoking that pack. Taric+yi gold funnel is broken because the invinicibility taric gives on yi is just too fucking good. You're trying to turn kindred into a self funneler that also has range advantage. I'm comparing kindred to this strategy because we do have a visual on what a jungle hyper carry with invincibility _from a different source_ looks like, except what you're proposing is the ult is thrown on said hyper carry itself, and the hyper carry is ranged with a shit ton of terrain scaling and mobility. ____ Hard truth is this; You can't just play norms, go 0/5 on kindred, then rant about why kindred is bad when you haven't even gotten ranked experience on your account (and there is no excuse for that to be a smurf with those performance rates). Your points don't still stand because you don't even understand why the ability has to function that way for game health, and the way in which it does infact benefit the champ. I've already mentioned the scenarios about how it benefits and I'm not going to /r/kindredmains for you to get more or a kindred coach to have this discussion with. You need to focus on improving to gain a better understanding of the game and less on champ design for something you don't even have a long history of playing (you have 30,618 mastery on kindred, thats not a lot of experience, Thats about between 30 - 60 games depending on the win/loss ratio, in norms.). If you want to continue arguing instead of getting advice, God bless, but it ain't gunna be from me. I'm not trying to be toxic (but i know i suck at it), I just don't know how to convince you reality when you're adamant about not being convinced. https://www.reddit.com/r/Kindred/
afmghost (NA)
: Hat Kid and Caitlyn: Are they the same person?
More importantly, can we make caitlyn's dance this now? https://i.imgur.com/25ELF1O.gif?noredirect
: Kindred is (are?) the worst champion in the game: Change My Mind
Kindred is fine rn. The fact that the current meta consist of these; {{champion:59}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:28}} and a marksmen jungler somehow manages to have a balanced statistic with them in Korean Diamond [according to lolalytics](https://lolalytics.com/ranked/kr/diamond/plus/champion/Kindred/), being 51.42% WR, 7.98% pickrate, and averaging an 8% banrate over the past week... should speak for itself. Even IWD climbed to grandmaster playing kindred (not exclusively but he's a meta slave user typically) ____ 1. High elo kindreds actually abuse this too well, if you're inexperienced with kindred then it'll feel like shit considering efficiency of getting marks is part of their skill ceiling. Doesn't matter if everybody sees it on the map, what matters is if the kindred can predict where the next mark will be via the number of marks they currently have and what jungle camps are spawning in addition to having jungler tracking experience to track which camps come up first, something good kindreds can abuse. Kindred's terrain scaling and just being at that camp when it spawns is what nets them stacks. Of course inting for ones you obviously can't go for without priority isn't a viable option, but its way easier getting marks then you make it out to be. Of course enemies can also predict these marks, its this concept called _counterplay_. (and lets be real, unless you have the wiki open and are constantly clicking to check kindred's marks whenever they show in vision, its unlikely the enemy can predict these as easily for this to consistently be countered) A. this solution makes things worse because it essentially invites the enemy into your jungle. If marks are in their jungle, there's only two locations they can be, making prediction easier (or play making, say they do go to your marked gromp on their side of the jungle, and you trade for rift herald or top. If they instead go in your jungle to invade that mark, you're cornered with fewer options as the goon squad goes into YOUR jungle instead of camping into THEIRS.) B. This removes part of the counterplay. The thing is that mark gives information as to where potential pathing options maybe, if only kindred is given that information, that's a huge disadvantage to the opponent who has absolutely no interaction to be able to deny that mark. This is why skarner's changes were fine because neither team had more information, and you could still identify the spires by scrolling around looking at them, and tracking via taking them and knowing when they're been switched on or off. The only balanced options would be both teams or neither team could see the mark, and i think that would be even more frustrating for the player actually trying to find them (kindred). _____ 2. Let this sink in; a 6 item marksmen that can reach 600 or more range, with invincibility. Yea thats actually dumb, if anything that ult needs removed entirely if thats the design. Fucking hell you're basically giving kindred the entire gold funneling strat with taric+yi (ranged yi mind you, i fucking played against this 3 times TODAY and the mere thought of another one tilts me even more) in a single kit, even kayle doesn't auto during her invincibility considering she can just 1v9 if she did, fuck she does that currently. Old kayle perhaps, but her kit limited her to AP itemization so she wasn't actually stacking as much damage as a crit or on-hit marksmen, and she didnt benefit well from defensive items like QSS, maw, Phantom dancer, Death's Dance, etc. It affects everybody because it doesn't auto win the game for kindred, and there are still scenarios where its actually beneficial to ult enemies (you can ult baron to deny them smiting it, in a tower dive you can save the enemy longer to juggle the aggro to somebody else before commiting to fully killing them, etc). Typically, if you have to ult, its when you're about to die so its a lose-lose either way, except it gives the chance to bring them low enough before you die either for a) your team or b) to kite them out of it and finish them with a properly timed E execute. "If you think Kindred's ult being teammate only would be busted, then how come I don't see you complaining about Soraka ultimate not healing enemies?" Because that wouldn't make sense??? lol?? Kindred is a hyper carry that needs counterplay so it doesn't 1v9 at the press of a button. Imagine ranged tryndamere with runaans, thats what you're asking for. Raka essentially gives up a teamslot just to heal allies, it doesn't need to heal opponents because her kit dedicated to doing basically one thing is already the drawback. _____ I wouldn't say kindred has too much counterplay. If anything I'd say there isn't enough lmfao. Even some pros wish kindred didn't have such bullshit terrain scaling and the ability to do whatever the fuck they want because high elo kindreds actually track junglers and position smart. ######also kindred isn't trundle atm.
: Yummi?
may 15 I believe. PBE cycles typically last 2 weeks then patches to live servers on wednsdays, unless there's a delay due to a holiday and they push it to Thursday. Right now we're in week 2 so the following week will be the patch launch.
: Okay, so don't nerf Yi because he stomps in low elo but sucks in high elo?
{{champion:238}} preforms around the same as low elo as high elo. The difference is in low elo, zed players stomp because low elo doesn't understand what to do against him, while in high elo zed players stomp because they're actually good at zed and know how to play around their weaknesses (one won't repeatedly ult the guy who built hourglass/has an untargetability for example) Yi doesn't preform any better because the skill ceiling for him isn't that high, the only thing is yi mains in high elo have better game knowledge to play around timing when they want to do stuff, but even then he's severely outclassed.
: ?? Why would Riot ask this Question??
They're likely referring to how some skins can legimately be pay-to-win. (arclight vel's hitboxes are way harder to dodge, mecha kha's isolation beeps making it easier to tell when something is isolated, etc,)
: Early 9.10 Patch Discussion
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=82cE8haV,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-26T17:00:08.511+0000) > **Runic Echoes** > We’ll be looking into whether Runic Echoes is strong enough or if, for example, its best users are being held to standards more comparable to Warrior’s average-to-good users. As an Elise and Eve main... no seriously do not buff runic echoes LOL. The mana crystal sucks but considering the state of the jungle buffing runic echoes for the only 3 playable AP junglers that can still preform well (nid, elise, eve) is a huge mistake. If individually there's a weakness in the AP user role, target them directly (don't buff elise and evelynn to make fiddlesticks viable, you've learned this mistake in season 6 and 7) I do agree even they don't hold to the standards of warrior users, but thats because of how broken and abusable {{champion:59}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:421}} are, no need to power creep them to their level so everything is broken.
: Why is AP cho'gath still in the game?
AP cho is terrible lol Super easy to just dodge his Q, kite everything else since he's melee, and the bigger he gets the easier it is to land shit on him.
: You go back in time to 1v1 your self ..
The outcome probably wouldn't matter, it'd be a 50/50 What I'd be afraid to imagine is how badly one me would flame the other me's self esteem to breaking point. Fuck even I hate me.
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Tormentula

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