SatomiKun (EUW)
: Mundo is rightfully really high on Riots priority list. I mean, come on, he has probably one of the most outdated kits in the entire game. His passive is **literally** just an increased stat: I have more health regen than other guys.... wow. His W, E, and R are all passive effects (glorified sunfire cape, more damage, more health regen) which he can activate on demand. He needs an update badly and I am glad that Riot confirmed that he is high on the priority list. Most likely will get his rework next year, alongside Mordekaiser.
His passive is a percentage. It scales with his actual health unlike normal base regen. The fact that he has extremely high health regen is a significant part of his play pattern as well.
: Oh please, wukong's **design** ain't so shitty as you make it out to be. His kit is very old and outdated and it shows, but he's far from being one of the worst offenders. Do you want go come and tell me with a straight face that Wukong deserves a rework more than Mordekaiser, Pantheon, Mundo? He's not only among the most needed, he ain't one of the most requested either (China is a large share of the playerbase and so its opinion has rightfully a weight, even if you might not like it). So I don't think wukong players are in the position to demand a rework so impatiently. That said, Wukong is sitting in the land of the forgotten, he sure deserves some gameplay changes to inject back some viability (his clone stunning champions and monsters before disappearing, maybe some of his dmg increased if the clone is damaged... For sure he should not get more front loaded damage).
> [{quoted}](name=GelsominoKiller,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cnwZp0dE,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2018-10-19T17:32:40.239+0000) > > Oh please, wukong's **design** ain't so shitty as you make it out to be. His kit is very old and outdated and it shows, but he's far from being one of the worst offenders. > > Do you want go come and tell me with a straight face that Wukong deserves a rework more than Mordekaiser, Pantheon, Mundo? More than Mundo, yes. Mundo isn't nearly as problematic as any of those champions.
Nahui (NA)
: Except that is 100% factual. Hate it all you want, less mechanically intense champions take less mechanical skill to play. No skill doesn't refer to game sense or predictions or mind games or anything. People say no skill because of the champion's abysmally low skill ceiling. Obviously a pre-rework Warwick with double the CS of an Ekko or Kayn is a clear display of skill, but that skill is jungle pathing and general game knowledge. Pre-rework Warwick is still brain dead and him getting kills or even performing at both the most basic level/most advanced level (Nearly identical) does not display any sort of mechanical skill. Some champions you do have to play to understand their skill ceiling/skill floor, but not all. Voli, pre-rework Warwick, Yi, pre rework Nunu, Xin, Garen, etc. Anyone can look at their spell rotations/actions and understand those are just simple, beginner champions designed to be easy to handle. The downside is that they are not versatile, which is where the game knowledge aspect clicks for them. But in terms of raw user-handling skill, a pre-rework Warwick/Nunu/Voli could almost never take more skill to use than most of the rest of the roster, let alone advanced mechanical champions. That's why they exist though. Beginner, easy as shit champions are designed to teach new players the game and develop their game knowledge/sense. Once you get that down, then you move on to a champion that actually takes skill to handle and maneuver.
Yi is actually one of the most high skill ceiling champions in the game, though. Sure his floor is very low, but there's an insane level of skill required to play him perfectly.
Poske (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=LilxPaprika,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tZPOcxjE,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2018-10-17T00:49:12.205+0000) > > I like how enemy can be all AD and have like 1 ap support like {{champion:63}} and that's enough to have to worry about still equipping MR. Meanwhile vice versa one thing I learnt from playing Tournaments IF YOU HAVE FULL AD COMP - Barely matters If you have full AP COMP - Might aswell FF 20 if the enemy team can build
The problem with a full AD comp is that turrets, minions, and monsters ALSO deal physical damage, though.
Moody P (NA)
: i miss when i could be tanky because i had tank items
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tZPOcxjE,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-10-17T00:19:11.884+0000) > > Right now you're better off just running flat health for your first 3 items on any fighter who can afford to pick up This is by design. Riot wants fighters to lean toward health and tanks to lean toward resistances.
: When an Assassin is one shotting thats fine. Wukong isnt one. Or shouldnt be at least
The problem is that it is that oneshotting out of stealth is literally all Wukong is good for.
mack9112 (NA)
: Wukong is not an assassin...
He isn't supposed to be an assassin, no. But like how Blitzcrank was designed to be a top laner, his core design is so poorly thought out that he ends up doing shit he's isn't supposed to do and is trash at what he is supposed to do.
: Yep, we're also increasing turret damage! We're still tuning however, but they'll be punching champs harder
Could you look into doing some work on the AI or firing mechanics of turrets? Part of the problem is how easy it is to simply minimize the number of times you get hit at all if you're playing a champion that can abuse turret aggro mechanics combined with the fact that it often feels like the player getting dove/harassed until turret has next to zero say in how their turret behaves compared to the person diving.
: I'm convinced this rework is literally just out of desperation to bring back/in/keep players. Ezreal has always been one of the most popular champions (i have no idea why, his kit is so boring to me and he isn't difficult. Deal with it.) so making him all shiny new, fun and strong is a great way to do this. SO many other champions needed it more. I mean if theyre gunna go ths route they need to rework yasuo too hes popular and everyone hates him.
Or maybe just understand that the fact that he is popular makes it more important that he look decent because he is one of the faces of the game. Ezreal's outdated model is going to stand out in significantly more games than someone like Mordekaiser. The W rework has been a long time coming because the ability was borderline useless. They decided to kill two birds with one stone.
: Is anybody gonna talk about how Ezreal's rework is a straight buff?
He does lose the ability to hit himself with W which gives him 20% attack speed for free AND a passive stack.
: {{champion:62}} {{champion:102}}
Wukong's passive is actually decent. The problem is that it's ideal conditions are in a position Wukong would never want to be in. Wukong is a champion that tries really hard to be a diver but ended up being an assassin.
: REMINDER, Rek'Sai basically doesn't have a passive
It got nerfed because it was cancer in lane. Every since the mini-rework she accumulates fury even faster and it would probably be even more obnoxious. Mark my words: Buffing her passive will not bring back Jungle Rek'Sai. It will just make mid/top her new meta role.
Rαy (EUW)
: Community: "Damage overall is too high!" Riot: "We are buffing Janna's damage!"
Janna basically does zero damage at all outside of the laning phase, tho. She isn't part of the problem. Would you rather they give her bigger shields, and more tornadoes.
Shukr4n (EUW)
: 1500hp mid game vs true dmg and stuff. Then depends what rank we talking about
Trying to fall back on accusing the other person of being low elo instead of refuting their point? Tank Pyke is even more common the higher your elo specifically because of the reasons I complained about.
Rioter Comments
Shukr4n (EUW)
: But he s squishy.
The thing is that chunking most squishies is a big deal. Like I said numerous times in my OP, Pyke has to be completely killed off for the fact that you caught him out to matter. This is why a lot of high elo players still go tank Pyke despite the inability to build health. If he's tanky enough to barely survive it's just as good as being an outright tank.
Rioter Comments
saltran (EUW)
: >That's why Kai'Sa has not been touched She has been literally nerfed last patch....things like this makes me dislike a thread that I mostly agree with. And in the title you talk about strong champs but sorry, Thresh is not weak but he is definetely NOT strong neither on pro play or soloQ.
It's still a really bad Thresh buff. Thresh's Q is expensive for a reason. This change will effectively remove his need to manage his mana.
: The only reason I give them *some* benefit of the doubt is Azir. While he was on the PBE, no game breaking bugs. Move him to the Live Server, and suddenly the guy is breaking turrets and spawning his passive turret where ever he wants on the map.
A lot of bugs don't get caught because the people on the PBE aren't actually looking for them, they just wanna play around with all the free shit.
Done25 (NA)
: Pyke's biggest weakness is that he literally can't can't do *anything* without his team unless he's 1v1 vs someone really wimpy. Like...Janna or Soraka wimpy.
Pyke can still harass and annoy just fine if his team isn't around. If he snowballs enough he is functionally a pretty scary fighter as well.
: Also, he's also hard capped by how much he can get out of control by the fact that he can't build health. He will always be easy to kill when he's locked down, and competent teams that stick together and play safe will have an easier time against a Pyke than pretty much any assassin.
A couple things: 1. He has very high base health to compensate 2. He can still build resistances 3. You have to fucking kill him completely or else if he gets away he can just step out of vision for a second and come right back healthy enough to fight again.
: His biggest weakness is that he's incredibly team reliant unless built full damage, but even then unless you play extremely carefully you'll just suicide.
Sure he's team reliant, but if he's roaming he's gonna get his whole goddamn team fed.
: @Riot, It's time to nerf the fuck outta Alistar
Damage is high. He knocks you up and if there is a carry nearby you die before you hit the ground.
: We talked about this a bit, and there's another post coming on Friday, but during preseason we're going to be splitting stats out from rune paths, and allowing you to select which ones you want. It won't be quite as extensible as it was in the past (like 25 different selections for each type of rune), but the system will support selecting offense AND defense, in likely varying amounts. This will get us back to a world where people that want to spec heavy into offense can do so, those who want to spec heavy into defense can do so, or those that want a mix can also achieve that. I'd be super super cautious of us looking at overall lethality beyond what we did on 8.16 given the risk of setting ourselves up for a really slow/boring meta moving into World's, and think that preseason will move us a fair way into what you and many others are looking for. We're fleshing out a post to go out on Friday that will get into a bit more of the details, but wanted to touch on it here in the meantime.
This was one of my favorite things about the old Rune system that I felt kinda set it apart from other games: letting players effectively tweak their champion's starting stats. It felt like an RPG where I get to assign some stat points after selecting my class or some shit.
DankSan (NA)
: Same reason Kled can do the same damn thing with his fuckin rope bullshit. Only he doesn't need a gap closer, he just has ridiculous movement speed.
LeBlanc's tether range is 865. Kled's starts starts at 800 and shrinks down to 650. It at no point is ever as long as LB's and actually gets signicantly shorter near the end. Also Kled's even takes longer to proc the pull than LeBlanc's does to proc the snare.
Hayaishi (NA)
: Cancer ass LB should've never been reverted.
Agreed. The rework was bad? Fucking rework her again instead of bringing back that bullshit. It was reworked for a reason.
: If Ezreal's VGU goes well: Jax, Blitz and Kennen are next in line!
: We're going to be doing some pretty substantial changes to turrets in preseason. I don't necessarily want to get into specifics at the moment since we're not fully locked on the direction, but generally we're looking to push back how early turrets can fall in games quite a bit while also adding in some mechanics that ensure champs/players that are able to get pressure on turrets early are still rewarded for doing so.
Reworking turret AI would do wonders for how worthless they can feel when you're getting dived, IMO. It often feels like 100% of the agency in a towerdive is on the people doing the diving because the AI is so incredibly easy to game.
: Yes, increase the gap between Immobile and mobile champions even more. Look, i get that Flash is overpowered. But this spell is so rooted in the game's heart that it would take a dedicated pre season just to rework it. Ignite on the other hand has no excuse.
Plus the dynamic of its cooldown during the laning phase adds depth to the game, IMO. Especially for junglers.
: I see Yasuo as kind of the same problem Smash Bros Brawl had with Meta Knight. They just need to rework Yasuo. There may be a correct way to play against him, but there was also a correct way to play against the old AP Nidalee. The bottom line is nothing should feel that bad and be that frustrating to play against. It's especially bad for the game long term as well. Heck, I have friends who don't play anymore and site Yasuo's release as one of the turning points for them quitting. One of them told me if Riot is willing to release a champ like that, and then never do anything about it for a really long time why invest time into a game where that can happen and destroy all your fun? Just move on to another game where that doesn't happen. I can't even argue with him since they did eventually release Zoe.
Holy shit Yasuo is nothing like Meta Knight. Meta Knight shit on literally every single matchup in the game and was so fucking overpowered that he has his own tier, followed by an empty tier, then Ice Climbers. He was so broken that the tier list placement of every other character was primarily determined by the MK matchup. If you genuinely think they are even remotely comparable you either don't understand Brawl or you don't understand League.
S0kaX (EUNE)
: I was Wukong, and I couldn't do anything. And every toplane champion? {{champion:14}} doesn't destroy yasuo unless he's stupid and he walks in your q.
Sion has no problem laning against Yasuo at all until 6.
: I main Kled, I know how to beat the dog crap out of a yasuo. I E when he dashes, hold me Q till he wind walls and save my ult to dodge one of his tornados. It's not like I believe nothing can beat him, but the purpose of the thread is "Tell me an unpopular League opinion that will trigger everyone." So I said this one :P
People were saying Yasuo counters Kled at first, but I honestly don't see what Yasuo can do against a good Kled.
: Tell me an unpopular League opinion that will trigger everyone.
Supports will look back at season 7 the way assassins look back at season 3. It was the strongest supports have ever been and there was so much variety in the amount of ways you could play support to succeed. We had perma-roaming supports, snowballing mages, babysitters, etc all being not only viable, but powerful.
: Yasuo has obvious and well designed counter play that makes him fun to play against.
Honestly his counterplay is pretty decently designed, but I don't think it is obvious. Every time I see someone bitch about a Yasuo clip I have to write an entire essay explaining to them how Yasuo works and how the person in the video fucked up because a lot of people fundamentally don't understand how to lane against or 1v1 him.
: rip Mordekaiser
Pretty much all of the Juggernauts in that update except Darius were complete failures. Who would've thought reworking 4 champions at once in a short window of time would be a disaster?
: Tell me an unpopular League opinion that will trigger everyone.
People hate Yasuo because he exposes how bad they are at laning.
Fízz v2 (EUW)
: what about {{item:3147}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3036}} tho? Zed oneshotting tanks LUL
The difference is that champions have more armor than health, armor scales harder, and lethality itself also scales with level. At no point does Lethality ever approach true damage.
Rioter Comments
: Jax has the same problem that pre tank rework Maokai apparently had; hes a generalist. Apparently being a generalist is fine if you're Lee sin or jax but if you're maokai, you gave to be reworked and have your iconic ult taken away. :/ Jax was good even when bruisers were apparently "weak." Hes good in tank metas, bruiser metas, ADC metas, assassin metas, and support metas. Jax is flat out always good. Hes never not good.
Lee Sin has always been an early game assassin that transitions into a bruiser lategame. Maokai was just unfucking killable if he got ahead. Jax isn't a generalist in the same sense that he can do everything, but more that his ability to build anything means that while he sorta has to commit to a role eventually, it can be basically anything and he doesn't have to really decide until midgame.
: > [{quoted}](name=TotalJerk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kiuEEJ8Q,comment-id=000100010003,timestamp=2018-08-16T05:30:38.779+0000) > > His ms was actually nerfed a while ago. By 5. And yet champs like Mordekaiser root at 325 base ms without any mobility spells, while a champ with two high mobility spells has 345
You're not making the case for nerfing Lee's MS. You're making the case for buffing Morde's.
: > [{quoted}](name=VanaQuish,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kiuEEJ8Q,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-15T08:05:40.773+0000) > > True. Too bad riot still wont put appropriate downsides on champs with dashes, like having LESS MOVEMENT SPEED. Im sick and tired of getting outrun by champs that have dash AND bigger movement speed. Did you know that Lee Sin has one of the highest base movespeeds? Because poor guy is so immobile, it's not like his Q is a dash, and his W basically a free flash if you have a ward up, it's also not like his E just slows you a fuckton, so it's near impossible to outrun him.
: > [{quoted}](name=Tracker57,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HlrE9Ono,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T23:17:00.972+0000) > > Im thinking of quitting ranked for that same reason, it seems like every time you go on a winstreak (3 or more) you'll Constantly be bombarded with unranked players over and over until you either: > A. lose 2 or more games, or > B. Carry games hardcore untill your mmr is high enough so the unranked players can't come into your games High silver is average elo. If you cant get out of there with people being thrown on either team being garbage you aren't going to climb in higher elos where the same thing happens but with people who actually have the same rank as you.
Way to completely miss the point for the sake of parroting generic platitudes.
Rioter Comments
: No shit, did you look at his ad-scaleings on rlease? I mean Orn would have had about the same value from going ad.... And the scaleings aren't that much better now either... Wondering why pyke goes for tank items rather than ad is like wondering why sejuany goes tank rather than AP....
Combined with that, he's going tanky because his kit has so much "counterplay" baked into it that he inherently has to take more damage than any other assassin while doing his job.
: Has this shown to be problematic? Or is it just a thing that happens? I did expect to see a Frozen Heart or Randuin's creep into his build, though, as, unlike most assassins, he can't grab a BC if he wants a bit of extra durability, meaning he needs to grab armor and MR if he wants it. Plus the item is a lot of utility anyways. And, of course, for Pyke in particular, his base damages...aren't that great. The problem with Rengar and Ekko is that they *had* the base damage to be full tank (or all but) and still do assassins levels of damage. Pyke'll just end up being a Blitzcrank with no health if he tries to build like they did - Still a good amount of damage, but hardly enough to kill anyone.
>he can't grab a BC Yes he can. It's one of his best items in AD builds. People don't seem to understand that 14 hp and 1 AD both have the same base gold value so his passive is efficient.
: It's actually the proper way to balance assassins. Assassins aren't supposed to build tank, but they're still supposed to build survival tools. Giving them mechanics which allow them to weave in and out of fights, but still melt if locked down and focused, is EXACTLY the way assassins should play.
Did you read the entire OP? % damage taken healing favors tanks/bruisers because their playstyles inherently result in more damage taken. With % damage taken healing the more damage you take the more effective HP you have. It is indirect tanky scaling. Tank are more capable of soaking up damage and surviving, therefore they will always heal more.
mack9112 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=TotalJerk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tNis9hcr,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-08-09T16:26:07.674+0000) > > People started rushing items like Frozen Heart on Pyke. Going for pure resistance builds. That can't possible be good
They literally had to patch him to push him more towards AD builds. Have you actually watched a high elo or pro pyke?
: I mean, they very much stopped tank/bruiser builds on Pyke by making him unable to gain health except by level. Any "bruiser" or "tank" build he goes then will probably be intentional, or at least encouraged. {{item:3071}} is already one of his core items, and I'm pretty sure Riot is happy with that.
People started rushing items like Frozen Heart on Pyke. Going for pure resistance builds.
Rioter Comments
: One thing that boggles my mind is that it costs no Energy to cast whatsoever. In fact, it actually restores Energy. What the fuck?
It restores energy because they want her to blow the cooldown when splitpushing to push harder.
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