: Ghostcrawler and Meddler misunderstand what makes pro-play enjoyable.
I mean, if you want actual physical proof of the moronic nature of making the game "flashier": Season 5: Highest amount of views on record for LCS, leading to an article by several sports networks about the potential rise of e-sports as a major event. Also Season 5: exact opposite meta to current League. It doesn't take a genius to tell that either these guys are morons or they're legitimately only serving the cyber-cafe casual market. There's really no hiding their intent; pro-play is almost certainly a side-note at this point.
Rioter Comments
: I never understood the point of having animation cancelling being the pinnacle of a champion's skill expression. Is it healthy, or do I just not get it?
It's not really healthy and it was labeled a bug a long time ago in Rito's spaghetti code - a "behind the scenes" on Riven basically said that it was something that they thought about fixing and then decided they "liked it". It's not actually particularly balanced or fair since animation canceling makes the champ required to be balanced around it, much like an overpowered item or keystone. So players who don't use the mechanic will never get the full extent of the champ and will often underperform while simultaneously being a mechanic that isn't told to you at face value - you're forced to work on it yourself. That has some attraction to it - you do get a feeling of really "mastering" a champion if you have to go super in-depth into the finer points. However, it gives vastly mixed signals in a competitive game where your ability to calculate something can win or lose a game for you, and these are completely uncalculable. You'd notice this a ton if you went from one game against a Riven that never animation canceled into a game with one that does - and it is a very noticeable difference because the second one you're going to get stomped when you're pretty sure you can win. "But Riven is modeled after fighting games, where these kinds of things are meant to be a feature." Except League doesn't share that - most of League's champions have zero animation canceling whatsoever (or at least no beneficial ones), and it's not even a natural part of the game, so the fact people say that it's okay is absolutely confounding.
Jaygo41 (NA)
: Zoe and Yasuo are only tolerated because of outrage fatigue
The only champion that compared in the entire history of the game was Kassadin, hitting near 100% banrates in every single tier until his mini-rework (if you could really call it a rework versus just a small change). And even Kassadin wasn't _hated_. He was overpowered. Everyone knew that. But he wasn't infuriating to play against, and he wasn't even great as a stand-up champion on his own - it was just the fact he could blink so far of distances that he _would_ get fed. No matter what, Kassadin would find the opportunity to get fed. It wasn't that you couldn't fight him early or that he out-traded, it's that he could just pick and choose when and where to fight, so a smart Kassadin would just find a way. Yasuo and Zoe win stand-up fights, and in ways that are completely and unabatedly unfair. Zoe's E - which is "easy to dodge" mind you - can be barrel-stuffed by her just R'ing into your face, immediately throwing her E at you, and then from there you're just dead. Yasuo dashes 97,000 times and then stabs you in the face multiple times, then hits you with one knock-up, ults you, and proceeds to burst you down because Conqueror offers him such absurd damage early it's unfair. And to go even further, Yasuo at the start of the season was considered trash due to the fact he didn't get the most out of any one rune, and he was _still_ despised. I have historically seen less hate at fucking _Fizz_ than at Yasuo. _That_ is astounding in and of itself.
: Do people really think old Aatrox took skill?
He did and didn't. Like any AA champion, right-clicking is the basic idea and if you get that down, no it's not necessarily hard. But if that were the case, then why was he considered garbage-tier for literal years? Other than a few lone mains, and one of them master tier, that I remember looking up. 56% winrates on a "garbage" champion that he mained almost exclusively in master. Thing was his W took timing and prepping to get a perfect battle in. There was actually a knowledge aspect to Aatrox that was grasped by so few it was absurd, kind of like how Nunu had 40% winrates and yet his mains were hitting above 70% when he was considered bad enough to _buff_. But the simplistic part of Aatrox had to eat shit due to his otherwise reliable kit - it was a lot like how Janna mains will argue their mechanics, but way more justified because Aatrox in high tier couldn't stand his ground without actually utilizing him to the fullest. Conqueror kind of changed a lot about that. Much of the champions that took actual effort and now pub-stomp have that dogshit rune to thank due to its abhorrent early power.
: Good job, gameplay boards.
I'm gonna be honest, despite the cries to buff from the boards, I doubt it's the sole reason Aatrox is getting hotfix buffed, or we'd never see Yasuo again. The hotfix buff is more likely a reaction to the gauge of difficulty of learning new Aatrox, and, unlike Gangplank's rework - that I recall vividly because I spammed the fuck out of him despite 2-3 entire patches worth of people telling me he was trash tier, sub-50% winrate un-meta garbage - we are now in the realm of "quick play". In other words, the game's pace is sped up and so champion play and dedication is sped up as well. It's no longer 2-3 patches of learning the champ and becoming truly proficient at him after time, patience, and trudging through people blaming you for a loss that was more likely caused by the 3/12 botlane rather than the going-even Gangplank top being a "trash champion" - it's now pick up the champion, learn the champion, love or hate it and play, baby, play. As the game pace increases, so does the meta-gaming - games go quicker and so people have to be able to grasp the champion quicker. These buffs aren't really so much a knee-jerk reaction to people crying wolf, but more a product of the times we're in - enough people said it's hard, so Riot wants to make it easier just so that we can move on sooner. After all, hard to put in the time to learn a champion when you only get 30 minutes in a cyber cafe a day, right?
: Ahh Cinderhulk meta. IMO, once they toned it and the problem users down, it was one of the most enjoyable metas to play in
It's what we're referring to when we say "season 5". Right around now in season 5, the game was the most varied and balanced thing we'd had in a while. People talk about the "plague of cinderhulk" without remembering that _oh right_, it was balanced in the same exact season it was introduced in, and stopped being cripplingly overpowered shortly after the end of pre-season. Balance tweaks from then on were mostly made based on high-tier play while lower-tier was a confusion of "WHAT'S EVEN STRONG!? WHAT DO I ABUSE TO CLIMB!?" Oh, right. You abuse the champ you yourself were good with and synergized with. What a concept that you didn't _have_ to enslave yourself to the flavor of the month. Gangplank and Fiora came in toward the end and nearly into pre-season 6, so as far as they're concerned, I'd pin them as more the turning point for when we were prepping for season 6 rather than a representation of season 5.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: he's getting a buff in next patch
To quite possibly the worst part of him, too. Thing is his R's counterplay is the fact he's so kite-able if you run a champion that abuses Rylai's passive - I love playing Brand against Tryn because the bastard isn't killing anyone so long as my teammates aren't chewing on paint chips. But the fact his E gets its cooldown lowered by two seconds - bestill my fuckin' heart - will render this completely moot since now he practically permanently ignores slows. There's pretty much nothing to be done other than pack enough CC to suppress Egypt (outdated reference). And if Tryn is last-picked and you didn't happen to already be bringing enough metric tons of lead to sink an island, then you get to just bend over and prepare your anus for the painus. Still can't understand why Aatrox was updated before Tryn when Aatrox at least had some depth to his gameplay. Tryn is as simple-minded as taking a piss, and at least one of those requires you to fuckin' aim.
: There's still time to avoid hotfix-buffing Aatrox
Or. Get this. Delete his E, make him able to move during his Q at a reduced speed to make him not even need the dash, and then give him an entirely different E.
Rioter Comments
: you read my mind red eyes probably
Cuspids are pretty cartoonishly sharp as well, so that could be it.
Rioter Comments
: Sounds like pre-rework {{item:3031}} on ADC's. https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/13/2/1522148214-xh59cdw.png This patch is great, the turrets need to be stronger, that's the only caveat.
I dunno. I enjoy playing Kayn, but I know a lot of people who aren't too pleased with the efficiency with which I can delete people this season and get away scott-free.
Sharuken (NA)
: Music and Lore = :))
Lore is ehhhh ahhh mehhh hnnnnh.... Let's say "hit or miss". Depending on the champion, it's either great or it's a big ol' hunk of dooky. Their champion designs are generally phenomenal (even considering reworks tend to scrap the old champions were we to have gotten the reworks out of the box by themselves and never gotten the old champions there'd be no controversy), their artwork is fantastic, and their music is top of the line. Let's just say the arts teams are all just swell. Let's not talk about the rest of the equation. 'Cause that's where the happiness ends.
Kazo Kurosu (EUNE)
: t-thx riot
#Riot: NOT ON MY CHRISTIAN SERVER.
: No, I wouldn't. It's terrible. But one game is definitely better than an entire season of making your ADC wanna commit suicide. I don't think you should be banned for bad gameplay, and I classify playing first time in ranked as bad gameplay. This strategy here is toxic, but not unviable. Riot locking the champion in ranked before you played X normal/bots games is actually a good idea.
As long as you're consistent in your stance, that's good enough for me. I agree then.
: Some people tend to forget that this is a GAME. If he gets a >50% winrate but creates a miserable play experience for one or more people in the game, then he needs to stop.
Then would you care to defend people who first time a champion (ever) in a ranked game and make the game a completely miserable experience for all on their team?
JRobin31 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Anatera,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d8ckfQ6E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-17T19:18:52.807+0000) > > Welcome to the Riot balancing philosophy. We'll tweak something until it's overpowered as fuck, then we'll nerf it to uselessness. Why? Who the fuck knows. 'Change for the sake of change' *something something* 'keeps players interested' #designphilosophy
"Hi, my name is _Starcraft_, and I have been the same stock game since for-fucking-ever ago. People still play me competitively and for enjoyment and a lot even still prefer me to my sequel." Rito: "What the fuck is a starcraft?"
: is brand a burst mage or a DoT mage or a teamfight mage?
Most people say "Yes", and that is the answer. Brand is predictable and doesn't have a lot of protection besides damage, baby, damage. His Q at anything that isn't point-blank range is extremely easy to bait and dodge due to its relatively low travel speed, his W does meh damage unless you're already ablaze, and his R is about as impactful as passing wind in a tornado if it doesn't bounce. His passive tends to be most of his laning damage and it helps him to synergize with DoT items, but he can't _stay_ a DoT mage because, again, no real protection and no escape whatsoever, so unless he had the ability to stay 1000 units back instead of having to get closer to enemies ever, he'd be blown up by the entire roster before his damage burned his enemies away. As a result, his "protection" is to make whatever's standing in front of him fucking dead so long as he hits a full combo to its entirety. So unlike Cass who is a DoT mage through and through, Brand sits comfortably in a "burst mage" category with DoT tendencies that requires enemies be closer together to make the most of his abilities. That is the "yes" answer explained out for you.
: Depending on how experienced you are i would say. At first i was frustrated at how he self roots each slam. Now that i can micromanage his dashes, its kinda easy to aim the end of the blade. His W can be used very effectively to lead people where you want the blade to be.
Certainly after a while you end up learning how to aim your abilities. I would trust that Riot had the intention of making the champ at least _playable_. But I don't get the appeal of him anymore. He's so clunky that it's hard to find enjoyment in playing him, and it may be shallow to say his animations reinforce this, but they really kind of do - if you're watching him move, he jumps up during his Q's and then dashes to the sides, but his model doesn't actually change at all - he just kind of shifts over like you're dragging and dropping an asset. It certainly looks odd to see Camille hover around as she moves to W, but there's no sudden jerk to her animation - it still smoothly moves around. Aatrox just goes from dead still to "over here now". It not only feels weird, it looks janky as hell as well. On top of it all, Aatrox's E isn't even an ability he needed - if he were allowed to move during his Q, his E could have actually _been_ something more suited to his kit, and the problem of him being clunky as hell to play as would have been massively minimized. His W is still just plain weird to use in his kit, but he'd have a far better flow. As is he's too stop-and-go to really enjoy his kit to the fullest.
Rioter Comments
: > The thing is that her winrates and playrates are identical to Udyr's According to ***your own source***, they dont lol https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/udyr/platinum https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/taliyah/platinum ?????????????????????????
http://champion.gg/champion/Taliyah/Jungle http://champion.gg/champion/Udyr/Jungle There are two sources you can go to for these things. Sorry that it must take you a lot of effort to type it into google. leagueofgraphs is a daily pull for champion statistics while champion.gg works from patch to patch. Taliyah was sitting at miniscule playrates for a while until her recent spike (and by "recent" I mean quite literally within the last week). Udyr hasn't actually changed at all in the mean time and is no weaker than he was, though Taliyah is the "flavor of the month" that a lot of junglers without dedicated mains are swapping to. For the span of the _entire patch_, Taliyah and Udyr are within less than a % point of each other on both accounts, overnight popularity spike aside. Taliyah will probably pull a % point ahead of Udyr by the end of this patch while Udyr will sit consistently at his current % because, again, dedicated fanbase that I mentioned in the original post. What leagueofgraphs _is_ very useful for is the fact you can pull numbers from the champions' "top players", and those numbers very much _are_ identical with both reaching over 70%, though I can understand that on top of searching something, it must be very hard to simply scroll down a page as well. My finger gets tired just clicking let alone moving the middle mouse button, my what a chore.
Rioter Comments
Olympius (NA)
: why is leblancs chain so long?
Because this was a fix a while ago that they actually did before her rework that they gave her for the reason that she was toxic to play against due to the fact she literally either bursted people down without repercussion or risk or she was borderline useless the entire game, so they tried to give her "counterplay" by reducing various missile speeds on her, starting with her chain, which made it next to impossible to land against anyone with a working brain cell and then they tried increasing the width on it which resulted in it basically always hitting so long as it was in the ballpark of 50 feet of the target, and then they tried decreasing W's travel speed which made it one of the easiest things to dodge as well and so on and so on and so on and so that brought us to the rework that they did that they ultimately reverted because playing as LeBlanc was clunky and awkward and didn't feel very good, just like how playing _against_ her now feels. In short: Riot doesn't know what the fuck to do with her.
Kivolan (NA)
: What The Hell Are These Celerity Changes?
Part of the reason (I would imagine) is to have it synergize with Nimbus Cloak better, since currently MS is soft-capped pretty hard outside of Homeguard effects (even with Teemo's W maxed with Nimbus Cloak proc'd, celerity, and waterwalking active, I was only hitting about 490-ish speed). This resulted in the combo feeling a wee bit "wasted" since Nimbus Cloak would end up only really giving you about 35 speed or so. On other champions I would imagine that it'd only drop to about 50-ish, which isn't bad but still nothing great. This meant that the rune only worked about half as well while not really benefiting celerity, either, so taking the two in tandem ended up just being a waste of rune space. With this, nimbus cloak effectively gives you "more" movement speed (it just gets reduced by less, honestly) and more power to celerity, making it synergize much more nicely. This is of course fucking stupid because if the goal is to make them synergize well together, then inevitably the two are going to be completely mandatory with each other to get the most out of them, or you take neither of them, whereas currently you take one or the other depending on if you feel like you need a burst of speed after ulting (if your ult is meant to be dumped and left) or if you take a passive speed increase for roaming and positioning purposes. So that whole "meaningful choices" horseshit that was being used as a buzz phrase for the past few seasons is now being traded in for "best synergy". How nice.
Cloud273 (NA)
: What's the point of using rock types in Pokemon?
They're strong against the best type, which is Bug. Mmmmmmmmmmmmbugtypes...
MadSeer (NA)
: So people are not worthy of respect because they're not as skilled as you are? If you give the lead to your lanes but you tilt when the balance starts shifting you might as well have fed the enemy team. There are players who will do everything to not listen to you, but if your answer to a mistake is "Dude, wtf?!" (being very mild here) you can expect them to ignore you for the rest of the game. You don't hit people over the head over a mistake they made 5 minutes ago, you tell them how you're going to engage (taking your Naut exemple) and how they should follow up. Works more often than you think. You have to break the neverending tilt cycle.
You realize that ironically this doesn't do it either, right? You come off as insincere or overcompensating, like in your head you actually mean "are you fucking kidding" while instead saying "Oh, that was a good try." Of course this is the cost of having only text to try and communicate, which has layers on layers of inferences and implications. At the end of the day, you might as well just be silent. Which unfortunately is a legitimate strategy a lot of players vouch for to climb, just due to the fact that Riot handles toxicity on such a universally poor level - with literally every other game in existence handling it far better, from their automated ban systems to their communications mechanics. HotS even upgraded to in-game voice for everyone, not just in parties - you can opt in or out of voice chat at any time, and reportedly it's decreased toxicity levels. Yes you still get the occasional game where it's a clusterfuck of shouting, but hey - you can literally just hit a button and leave the channel. Don't even need to click anything - the "leave chat" button is a hotkey. Then again, the game and community forces a more team-oriented approach whereas this game is as selfish as ever, so. Can't say it would actually work here.
Wanfear (NA)
: If you make your top lane leash blue or red, you need to remember to pay attention to their lane because they won't get level 2 first. You're gonna lose top scuttle and they'll be farming under turret. I'll watch buffs no problem. If I ward a buff, I expect the jungler to ward the river bush when they take it.
What is with all these comments about leashing. The post is about watching the buff. In general. Just watch it. Make sure the enemy jungler doesn't steal it. I specifically said this in the first _line_. Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.
: neither of those jg's NEED to start blue buff, also both those Jg's have a SLOW clear on the 1st buff, which means they would benefit more from the 2man leash damage from botlane (or would keep their toplaner out of lane longer potentially setting them back). Amumu especially can start red, taking E and W first and then easily clear raptors 2nd, and still have fine mana to do blue buff. Having an ap jungler is not an excuse to set your toplaner back, you arent going to go OOM after 2 camps and you can easily take your blue buff 3rd or 2nd.
It's much less about the slow clear or what's fastest - it's a lot more that those two champions are examples of champs with "INVADE ME" stamped on them in neon letters. They don't need blue to clear their first camps, no - but if they get invaded and lose their blue, those champs have next to no options left. Starting it is the most guaranteed way for them to be able to ensure they get it. If you've ever been a mana hungry jungler and had your blue taken from you, then you'd know that you are basically the kid they put on milk cartons because nobody will see you for a very, very long time.
: As a top laner I always gaurd my JG's toplane buff and ward it at 1:25. However, I HATE HATE HATE junglers who demand a leash from their toplaner, GO BOTLANE DUMBASS, the leash is FASTER, You lose less HP, and NO ONE GETS PUT BEHIND BECAUSE OF IT. Junglers who leash toplane are inconsiderate idiots: Change my mind.
Fiddlesticks on blue side. Amumu as well.
: Like hit E.
Or Q, or W, or even R. Really just any key at all to give himself a speed boost.
Rioter Comments
: Is first item the problem though? A lot of groups of champions have that same "issue" but then 2-5 after they pick items based on the game.
That was the problem with Morello, and the primary reason for the massive rework to it - it was the "need-to-rush" item of the game, even if the rest of AP itemization would tend to boil down to the situation. The other notable issue was that a lot of AP itemization was just incredibly weak by comparison to their AD counterparts. Duskblade is the front-runner for the argument that Riot has immense double-standards currently - it is an item that has, since its release, trumped any and all other AD items in its category, meaning rushing anything else besides Duskblade is just outright moronic. Even in its extremely gimped state, it still trumps all other AD armor pen items in the vast majority of cases. There really isn't an excuse for Duskblade being how it is - and yet it remains and has for quite a while.
wildfox99 (EUW)
: the problem is still the same : AP items only gives raw stats and actives/passives aren't interesting at all and mostly offer more uninteractive damage (except for {{item:3145}} items,but {{item:3146}} is so niche and {{item:3152}} is never used for its initial purpose : giving a dash to immobile champions),so the one that gives more damage for the cheaper cost is the best while AD items on top of giving stats and damaging passives gives some useful effect ({{item:3094}} on top of giving an empowered AA makes the passive charge faster and increase your AA range,{{item:3285}} passive is just some damage and nothing else) don't forget then that while each AD subclass have its own items **all** APs share the same items,there are no AP assassin or bruiser items at the beginning i like the idea of making a different start item for each playstyle,but then they overnerfed {{item:3030}} making it useless for chasing (why slowing someone if you don't deal him damage?),removing its damage they removed the start for the ones that didn't want anything but damage they overbuffed and then nerfed {{item:3003}} and now we have luden that is covering all those playstyles (its passive can be used both for bursting or poking,it deals so much damage early game that even a champion supposed to scale in lategame starts to oneshoot people) srsly,revert the {{item:3030}} active changes and make the {{item:3003}} stack faster on champions that can't spam (for example giving stacks based on how mana your ability used,long CD abilities usually have an high mana cost),then just make Mpen less mandatory and items like {{item:3116}} can come back atm AP have less runes,less items and you can't even choose them,they have a mandaroty build...
To be 100% fair, AD assassins are pretty fucking uninteresting as well considering the immediate go to almost all the time is {{item:3147}}.
: What ranked Tomorow looks like
I don't get the joke. That's not a picture of Pyke feeding all the starving kids of Africa.
magewick (NA)
: IMO, removing runes when so many champions are balanced with them in mind will create far more balance nightmares than leaving them in. The problem isn't having runes/masteries as much as having them change so often. The last change from pay to win runes to free runes should be the last major change to runes. Riot needs to stick with one system for 2-3 seasons so that they can actually balance all 140+ champions around said system.
That is literally identical to outright removing the runes, but far more complicated. So when Riot changed Runes and how they worked, they did a wide, sweeping change to literally every single champion in the game to try and compensate for the swap over to the current system - and now with the current system Riot has had to rebalance every champion multiple times to try and clean up mess after mess caused by the system change. The thing about the runes, however, is that the runes are changing the game's playing field constantly by being there - if X champion breaks a rune that Y champion desperately relies on to even passably function, then X champion gets nerfed - but X champion keeps getting nerfed until that champion can no longer viably use any other rune than that single rune, and now finally the rune gets nerfed. This literally happened with Kleptomancy - Ezreal at first broke Kleptomancy but was nerfed into place - but Gangplank abused it and abused it nerf after nerf after nerf until finally Riot just said "Oh fuck it, nerf the rune instead" and Kleptomancy finally got the nerf it should have gotten ages ago, but left it completely unusable to other champions that were relying upon it but weren't quite broken with it (like Illaoi or Nasus). _With runes, every change keeps switching the landscape of everything else around it as well as the problem itself_. Now, if you were to _remove_ runes, then you have basically eliminated an entire scale that needed balancing in the equation, leaving us with items and champions - while items can still break the landscape of the game based upon who uses what better, they aren't nearly as extraneous of a detail as runes are and are far more accessible to players. In other words: having less branches of gameplay to try and balance out makes it much easier to balance out the game. It would really only require a couple of passes of balancing to work out the kinks of a runeless game (basically just a lot of reverts) and then from then on the game would be immensely more stable. It'd be like this recent pre-season but with an actual payoff at the end instead of an infuriating mess.
: Greentext
That's not my favorite. My favorite is the person begging you to switch roles with them and saying "trust" over and over, and then feeding their lane to kingdom come when you agree. Nothing teaches me not to be nice quite like League does.
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GAN78P6L,comment-id=0001000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-27T01:38:22.599+0000) > > This phrase - you clearly don't understand what it means at all. Logical fallacy, argument by assertion. Merely stating something doesn't make it true. You never attempt to demonstrate why my use of logical fallacies was inaccurate. > Banner offers 60 armor with 10% CDR and 30 magic resistance, along with bonus health regen to boot. Yorick - a champion that tends to build bulk over damage - gets two defenses boosted on top of the 10% CDR, which for a champion heavily reliant upon his ultimate tends to be a very key thing to look for. This is where you only dig the hole of your Yorick ignorance deeper, by not realizing why it has no special synergy with Yorick. Yorick doesn't scale with resistances, but health. And if he wants resistances there are far more useful and synergistic options available like deadmans and visage. There's a reason top Yorick players generally don't build banner. You need to deal with that fact and come to terms with why that is. I can tell you why: A Yorick who builds banner is choosing to take an inferior item to maximize pushing power, which really is redundant by that point anyway considering how much pushing power he already has. You "can" do it, if you're fed and ahead anyway why not, but you don't need to. And you sacrifice your dueling power to do it. > What this does is effectively allows Yorick to be in the right place at the right time on demand - he can push where he needs to be pushing anytime, anywhere. You haven't disproved my original point. Which I can quote for you: _It would be no more broken on Yorick than any other champion who decided to buy it and use it to farm two lanes at once._ There's a big failure in your logic underlying everything you try to argue - You think this is unqiue to Yorick. You could make the same argument for any split pushing juggernaut or skirmisher. You even try to argue that Nasus sometimes builds it for that same reason. There is no special synergy with this item on Yorick. Anyone who wants to take turrets faster can use it the same way. It actually makes the least sense to build it on the guy who needs it the least to push towers effectively, which is why most top Yorick players don't. >The "fact" that pros and top players don't build the item on Yorick has literally no bearing on whether or not the item has any synergy with Yorick. It already factually doesn't have synergy with Yorick by looking at the stats, as I already established. The fact that top and pro players don't build it is just further evidence of that fact. They know what they are doing on Yorick - you don't.
You failed to address the vast majority of the argument, all your points were ostensibly weak by comparison, you used the same points to try and re-argue a point I already disproved, and you're so ignorant of how the game itself works as a base as well as how Yorick works as a champion that this has become tiresome and boring. Feel free to continue wallowing in your ignorance. Once you finally hit adult age you'll probably gain that critical thinking you so desperately need, but until then, ta-ta.
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GAN78P6L,comment-id=00010000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-26T05:54:03.453+0000) > >A split pusher would get nothing out of an item that increases the effectiveness of his splitpushing. Logical fallacy, avoiding the issue. I gave many points why your claim was wrong, and you made no attempt to address any of them. Here they are quoted for you: _ He has no special synergy with that item, nor any particular reason to build it for it's stats. He already can use ghouls to push and farm a secondary lane, and he already pushes a turret down fast. Banner is a win more item at that point if you're already ahead. You don't actually need it to do anything. It would be no more broken on Yorick than any other champion who decided to buy it and use it to farm two lanes at once. Thus, there is no special reason to make Yorick a dumpster tier dueler out of fear of what that item could do. There's also no such thing as "early pressure" with banner when it's a third item buy at best. Nor is there such thing as "early pressure" of double pushing lanes when the lane phase is still going on. Your teammates wouldn't appreciate that. _ Adding on to that: In your ignorance of Yorick, you make the mistake of thinking that just because a character is played as a split pusher that they have some inherent synergy with banner. That is completely wrong. Tyrndamere is often played exclusively as a split pusher by people but you never see him building banner. You don't see Nasus building them. There is nothing Yorick can do with those two items that another juggernaut can't do with it. The fact is, pros and top yorick players generally never build either banner or zzrot. It's unnecessary because he can already take towers without it. And it doesn't synergize with any of his stats so it ends up detracting from his ability to effectively duel by giving up better items. > It could be because you're looking at Yorick purely 1-dimensionally - a straight line. That his only proper build is as a duelist. You can't split push as an effective strategy without being capable of 1vs1ing anyone on the enemy team. That is a defining attribute of what makes someone capable of split pushing as opposed to just farming an unoccupied lane. >All I said is that he's probably going to be broken upcoming patch for more than just one reason Logical fallacy, argument by assertion. Merely stating something doesn't make it true. You have given no logical reasoning as to why we should think Yorick would be overpowered with the changes. Yet others here with experience and game knowledge have given you many reasons why he will be hurt by the upcoming changes.
> [{quoted}](name=Risen29,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GAN78P6L,comment-id=000100000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-26T16:57:31.359+0000) > > Logical fallacy This phrase - you clearly don't understand what it means at all. So to break the champion down into terms that you can finally stand to grasp, I will read the items off just for you since, well, apparently reading's difficult for you. Banner offers 60 armor with 10% CDR and 30 magic resistance, along with bonus health regen to boot. Yorick - a champion that tends to build bulk over damage - gets two defenses boosted on top of the 10% CDR, which for a champion heavily reliant upon his ultimate tends to be a very key thing to look for. Already everything works with Yorick. Every one of those stats is something Yorick is going to be looking for. Are they massive stat boosts? No, but the secondary effect makes up for this: **Point runner: builds up to 20% bonus movement speed over 2 seconds while near turrets, fallen turrets, and void gates.** What this does is effectively allows Yorick to be in the right place at the right time on demand - he can push where he needs to be pushing anytime, anywhere. It increases his reliability in his job as well as allowing him a way out in a lot of cases since it's pretty difficult to catch up to somebody speeding away with that much of an MS boost. So already you've proven that you not only don't have a clue what the item even does to begin with, but you know literally nothing about what you're talking about. You've not played Yorick regularly nor do you even understand what the champion should be looking for. You also show no ability to think about macroplay and how certain effects can be massive boons besides just the usual binary. But hey, you probably get tired of hearing how clueless you are all the time, so let's move on to just every other thing that's wrong with your statements: On the subject of Yorick being able to outduel other champions and needing items for it: he outduels the vast majority of the roster right after Trinity Force with the only stipulation being that they can't be fed to hell. Have you legitimately never played Yorick? You know, the premiere lane bully? The one Riven and Renekton dream they were? Yorick's only competition as far as bullying goes is Mordekaiser, and the two are both generally dealt with the same exact way - gank the shit out of them or just clear well enough that they don't take the tower immediately. Implying Yorick needs more than one item to effectively do his job is just absolutely telling about your knowledge of the subject. On the subject of your other split pushers: straight splitpushing Nasus can actually be found building Banner, especially if he has absolutely no interest in grouping with his team. Considering Nasus rips down turrets with minimal need for damage items to begin with - Sheen usually does the job - and his ultimate is a straight stat-checker, Nasus' synergy with Banner is actually surprisingly high, especially since, once again, Nasus makes critical use of CDR. Considering Nasus also already gains bonus health from his ultimate, the flat bonuses to his resistances are made much greater through effective health. If you don't know what that is, just look it up. I'm already babying you enough as it is. Tryndamere doesn't ever build it because Tryndamere builds for crit, which is a dedicated build - you don't half-ass a crit build. There's a reason that ADC's rarely build strictly defensive items besides boots, and it's because crit as a stat heavily relies upon two other stats in addition to crit itself - attack speed and attack damage. Double your attack damage doesn't mean much if your AD is low, and having crit at all doesn't mean much if your attack speed is too low to make effective use of auto-attacks. These stats are also spread out amongst a variety of items, so most of Trynd's build is going to be strictly dedicated to acquiring those items. This takes up most of his item slots, so Trynd's never going to see the item used. And then on the subject of "argument by assertion" - my god you don't even know what an assertion is. This list is ever-expanding. An assertion would imply that there is no possibility of the statement being false - "Yorick **will** be broken" is an assertion. "Yorick **never** builds banner of command" is another one - oh wait, you made that one. Guess I should call you out on it in a way that makes me look like a cockface, huh? Look, I'm just like you! What I offered is a theoretical statement - Yorick will probably be broken with these changes due to this, this, and this. That is a theory. It's all theoretical until the changes actually drop. But judging by everything else you've said so far, I'm not surprised you've confused the two. >The fact is, pros and top players -- So funny enough, not only did I know you were going to use this argument - and I legitimately fucking called it, like holy shit I must be an oracle or you're just that predictable - this one actually _is_ a logical fallacy. The "fact" that pros and top players don't build the item on Yorick has literally no bearing on whether or not the item has any synergy with Yorick. In fact, Guinsoo's for a long time had synergy with many champions strictly speaking, but was pretty lackluster for a couple reasons: One, its unique stacks gave flat number bonuses, which with the change to a % increase based upon total (bonus for AD) stats, allowed the item to flourish much more effectively into the end-game. Number two, and I need you to follow me on this one: **the item was fucking expensive**. Trying to build for Rageblade was generally just stupid due to the fact that you would be largely forgoing most of the other necessities that would have to go along with the item (more AS to reliably stack it, bulk for melee users) in order to even afford the item in a timely manner. The item was consequentially considered lackluster even though it synergized great with champions like Xin Zhao and Jax. So the item sat on champions that really needed it out of necessity rather than as a core item competitive with other items. Rageblade got the changes and the item got to be one of multiple changes that broke the meta for a few weeks. Point is, just because an item isn't built on a champion doesn't mean it doesn't offer synergy - in most cases, the item just isn't strong enough or takes too much time, or is even just situational. Youmuu's is an example of an item that was popular for no fucking reason for a while way back when for the sole reason that pros built it - and people lost hard with it, because the item wasn't actually that great. What it did was helped snowball a lead or helped maintain a lead by allowing fed champions to run from lost battles or quickly make catches and preventing escape. Was to be built as a first build item exclusively, and people ignored that little stipulation because "the pros built it". So as a whole: that argument is generally dog-shit unless you understand the asterisks that are lined up directly after the statement. Now onto the final point, and you should really try your best to grasp this concept because it's very simple and even that may make it too complicated for you (unfortunately I really am not the person to just show pictures and grunt at them like you must be accustomed to): #Banner is getting changed next fucking patch. Your _entire_ argument is completely irrelevant due to this single point because you have literally only argued against current banner, and even that was ineffective. **If** your original argument had just been "Nobody builds Banner unless their team is already ahead and they want additional pressure", that would have been actually true - current Banner is an aggressively okay item that feeds off of teams being inattentive and sending the wrong person to kill promoted minions. Even then, the minions didn't actually do much damage to turrets and were pretty much weaker baron minions. #But. That still has no relevance because that would be old banner again. New Banner increases the damage these minions do to turrets by 100% on top of their damage buffs as well as 70% **total** damage reduction from champions. Good job, you now have an actual super minion very early in the game. This is all calculated after bonus stats. This means that Banner can actually effectively stifle an enemy team when used early, and the 100% increased damage to turrets effectively means that a siege minion attacking with Yorick at base damage already nets him around twice as much damage to turrets as Yorick currently gets from Sterakk's - it is effectively a versatile replacement meant for splitpushing, and honestly using your own logic against you, is a more consistent damage dealer than Yorick's own minions and Maiden who don't update their stats. But you know what. I really don't even need to bother with most of this. I'll just use you as a puppet to argue against yourself. >You only see it built if someone **wants to maximize pushing power** at the expense of fighting power. Oh hey. Look. A contradiction in your arguments. If I'm aiming to split-push better, I would take an item you openly admitted maximizes that strength. It's almost like you don't actually think before jumping into the conversation.
: I'm just curious what the problem was.
In before it's that somebody forgot to turn Riot's wi-fi on.
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GAN78P6L,comment-id=000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-25T20:12:02.924+0000) > > My post was relevant to the topic of Yorick potentially being broken .... Yorick can basically farm two lanes at once and focus down two towers at once, that's the idea. ... extremely strong minions early can cause him to create heavy pressure and dominate early It was irrelevant because you are ignorant of how Yorick works. He has no special synergy with that item, nor any particular reason to build it for it's stats. He already can use ghouls to push and farm a secondary lane, and he already pushes a turret down fast. Banner is a win more item at that point if you're already ahead. You don't actually need it to do anything. It would be no more broken on Yorick than any other champion who decided to buy it and use it to farm two lanes at once. Thus, there is no special reason to make Yorick a dumpster tier dueler out of fear of what that item could do. There's also no such thing as "early pressure" with banner when it's a third item buy at best. Nor is there such thing as "early pressure" of double pushing lanes when the lane phase is still going on. Your teammates wouldn't appreciate that.
> [{quoted}](name=Risen29,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GAN78P6L,comment-id=0001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-05-25T21:09:51.372+0000) > It was irrelevant because you are ignorant of how Yorick works. First of all, quite the assumption, and an ironic one at that. A split pusher would get nothing out of an item that increases the effectiveness of his splitpushing. Hum! What a completely controversial statement in how moronic that is! I never thought about how an item _built to aid in splitpushing_ would offer _absolutely nothing for a splitpusher_. It could be because you're looking at Yorick purely 1-dimensionally - a straight line. That his only proper build is as a duelist. Meanwhile I've seen players successfully build him to splitpush with banner/zz'rot and it works just fine so long as their team holds our attention for longer than 10 seconds. Teamwork makes the dream work, as it were, and eternal pressure is worth more than you'd care to give it credit for. You'll also notice at no point did I say that Yorick deserved to be a dumpster tier dueler. All I said is that he's probably going to be broken upcoming patch for more than just one reason - but since Neanderthals tend to want to jump to conclusions as soon as they can grasp them, I can understand why you decided to just make the massive assumptions that you did. That's my bad, I shouldn't have overestimated you like I did. My apologies. I am curious, however, as to what makes you a Yorick expert in this case. Please. Enlighten me. Would you be willing to fill me in on all your Yorick-based exploits and detail me out every strategy in the book? Or would you like to spout some more Twitch streamer phrases and claims at me before they inevitably change within the next week? Because something tells me that you're not bringing any of these claims as first-hand experience, or even as observational experience.
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GAN78P6L,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-24T21:58:40.947+0000) > > I don't think he means just because of the fighter item updates. Banner is getting a meaty change as well that transfers gold slain by promoted minions to the user - as well as increasing their attack speed and power by an enormous amount. > > In other words, promote the cannon minions, farm two lanes at once, and force eternal pressure on the game. Do this when the enemy is sieging your team and you could very well take a tower just from them being distracted for a minute. Banner is a crappy item on Yorick to begin with. He doesn't make good use of the stats and doesn't need the active. There's nothing about the banner that has any special synergy with Yorick over other fighters. You only see it built if someone wants to maximize pushing power at the expense of fighting power. As someone also said, your post is also irrelevant because we're talking about Yorick's fighting power.
My post was relevant to the topic of Yorick potentially being broken. I offered an explanation for why the belief goes, and banner's new buffing mechanism delivers on that - extremely strong minions early can cause him to create heavy pressure and dominate early, and the empowered minions now transfer gold to the person who empowered them. Yorick can basically farm two lanes at once and focus down two towers at once, that's the idea. There's such a thing as side-conversations that happen in these threads. Maybe you should follow the conversation rather than just jumping into it willy nilly, hmm?
: I know this won't happen, but I really wish she would stop looking like a human. She is a wind spirit. Nobody knows what a wind spirit looks like, so why not use that freedom and create something visually interesting, instead of a barely clothed human?
> [{quoted}](name=DerMangoJoghurt,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lmUsxWEM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-24T20:17:54.079+0000) > > I know this won't happen, but I really wish she would stop looking like a human. > She is a wind spirit. Nobody knows what a wind spirit looks like, so why not use that freedom and create something visually interesting, instead of a barely clothed human? ... Yes we do. She's basically the Greek/Roman "sylph", a wind spirit that basically was just a windy nymph, minus the whole wanting to bone all the time thing.
: Don't Say The Word "Co-on" In League of Legends Either
The ban sensors are pretty over-sensitized to go along with community demands. I'm sure it'll get sorted out in the long run. I wouldn't sweat it too much. By the way, your step-father's probably just American. He'd have to be from Africa to be African, and then become a US citizen to have the full nomenclature. He's born here and raised here, never became a citizen of an African city-state - American. If he actually is African-American, then lucky you. Man probably has a lot of tales and insight to tell from another culture.
: > [{quoted}](name=ALegoPiece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GAN78P6L,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-05-24T21:06:04.965+0000) > > I agree also but yorick will be broken Using that logic every juggernaut should be broken next patch because they already do what im requesting. And trust me, yorick mains really DONT want him to get popular and broken because we couldnt play him as our niche. I only want to... well... use juggernaut items in a juggernaut. I dont think is that much.
I don't think he means just because of the fighter item updates. Banner is getting a meaty change as well that transfers gold slain by promoted minions to the user - as well as increasing their attack speed and power by an enormous amount. In other words, promote the cannon minions, farm two lanes at once, and force eternal pressure on the game. Do this when the enemy is sieging your team and you could very well take a tower just from them being distracted for a minute.
CoffeeMug (EUNE)
: A 47% winrate on an easy champions to pick up on ( {{champion:16}} , {{champion:37}} , {{champion:23}} , {{champion:1}} ETC) is much easier to interpret ,because the difference between someone who played 20 and 50 games is smaller, than when compared to champions who require a lot more experience ({{champion:157}} , {{champion:92}} , {{champion:136}} , {{champion:119}} ). If a hard champions like has a 18% playrate(like huge) and a 49.5% winrate,it may very well be an indicator that champion in questions is too strong on people who just started him. The best way to judge if a champion is good/bad/OP is by playrate,winrate,banrate,but lastly palyer experience ( do people like having that champion on their team? Does the champions force the enemy to feel like any options they take will backfire?). IMO , I always find {{champion:157}} annoying to deal with. Whether he has a 51% WR or a 46%. Conqueror was certainly a buff for him.Not so sure how big it was tho.
It was pretty goddamn significant since Yasuo barely put any other keystones to use effectively, so his damage got immensely boosted by the additional true damage. And if you think that's bad, wait until the IE changes go through. Tanks might as well not bother building armor at that point.
Rioter Comments
Quort (NA)
: Oglaf?! And you even cropped out the naughty bits! Well done!
> [{quoted}](name=Quort,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=XvOunkIu,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-05-20T01:03:45.841+0000) > > Oglaf?! And you even cropped out the naughty bits! Well done! So happy more people know about that comic, 'cause I always feel like it's both great but inappropriate to bring up randomly in conversation.
: No need. It's all in the name. ;p
That's namist. Just because it's my name you think that must be how I am? What if my name was Dick? Huh? Check your privilege!
: Stop trying to control my toxicity!
Did you just assume my intentions!?
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Toxic Control

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