Voldymort (EUNE)
: Concerning the "i was defending myself" argument
BRUCE LEE owns everyone with FACTS and LOGIC!
: > [{quoted}](name=Pretty Pink Rose,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=EKnLk3T5,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-10-19T19:16:17.713+0000) > > LMFAO 9/1 Not just that, 0 assists. She's a strong independant support who don't need no team!
AP Janna plays like AP Lulu: Split push until you hear the Valkyries sing and push away anyone who tries to deal with you. Never group because why do that when you can literally just waste the enemy's time by chunking their turret with that sweet AP damage on autos to turrets (which at that point in her build would be like 500 an auto) and rofling away by slapping a W on your attacker and speeding off like the asshole on a segue you are.
: I'm autistic, its hard enough to tell sarcasm in person, let alone in writing alone with no inflection or things that make it obvious.
Then I'll tell you the same thing I explained to someone else before: Listen or read what they say, weigh it against the norm and what they're like as a person. If you don't know what they're like as a person, go with weighing it against the norm. If what they're saying is absurd, there is a significantly higher chance that they're being sarcastic than they are being dead serious. In these cases, you can honestly just assume sarcasm, with the bonus being that **even if they are being serious**, what they've said is, again, completely absurd, so you're basically just dismissing them by assuming such an asinine statement is satirical. In either case, it's a win-win, and safer to assume sarcasm than to assume someone being serious.
: /s is there if ya need it... Maybe next time they should use it since they apparently aren't making obvious enough for everyone.
Honestly, if I have to tell somebody it's sarcasm, they're part of the problem. Hang on while I go put /s at the end of "A Modest Proposal".
Rioter Comments
saltran (EUW)
: Bruh my gold ass can dodge with flash a Malphite R if I have vision.
Not from pointblank range ya fuckin' can't.
: Abandoning a losing lane is usually ideal. However, there is a certain point where you HAVE to help.
I've been that Illaoi before. Literally. Smashing down tower after tower, never seeing the jungler arrive, the enemy mid comes to help _one_ time after I've already dropped a combo onto my opposing laner and they get dropped in a second. There've been points that enemy teams have left me to my own devices so long I could solo 4 out of 5 of them - and have in fact done that. I don't know who started the idea that "Just focusing on winning lanes will improve your odds", but it needs to go because here is something you need to think about every game: #Some champions can _not_, absolutely _can not_ be allowed to get fed or too far ahead. Illaoi isn't even the _worst_ offender. When a Tryndamere is literally just diving your tower time and time again because he literally can with no repercussions - pushed into your turret and free-farming without a care in the world - if your team is allowing him to keep doing that again and again, Tryndamere will just split-push unopposed for the rest of the entire game. And he'll win unless your team can not only ace but force down turrets faster than Tryn can (in vast majority of cases, no team is that far ahead that they can freely dive turrets, kill all 4 enemy champs, and still push down turrets fast enough to keep up). While siege pressure is easy to apply nowadays, sieges still take a while, and Trynd doesn't wait. So unless your team can outdo Trynd, then _somebody_ has to go solo against him - and, I mean, surprise surprise, if the Trynd is fed, nobody on your team is solo'ing him without some form of hard CC alongside a perma-slow. It is the worst feeling to be staring defeat in the face knowing full well without intervention it _will_ be a loss - and just have your teammates fapping around elsewhere ignoring the ever-increasing issue when they're far more equipped to put an end to it.
: I think if you want the best information possible, you'd have to ask EVERY support agent, as I know our moderation team has come to the conclusion that Riot wins most of those rounds, even if some are close. :P
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lctI62iB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-09T17:54:35.792+0000) > > I think if you want the best information possible, you'd have to ask EVERY support agent, as I know our moderation team has come to the conclusion that Riot wins most of those rounds, even if some are close. :P You know what, you're right. We have to go _deeper._
Rioter Comments
: These are the questions that should go to Ask Riot.
> [{quoted}](name=Periscope,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rsqK4PhE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-10-08T15:20:35.434+0000) > > These are the questions that should go to Ask Riot. Why wait? I've submitted a ticket. Hopefully we get a response.
: Actually what the fuck...
Are you relatively new to the game? This was a _literal_ topic of discussion prior to reworking LeBlanc, resulting in one of her many "changes" that ranged from decreasing her E's missile width to be more in-line with the animation to making her W have a significantly lower travel speed. Both changes were scrapped, the E missile width being because after they made the change practically nobody could reliably land her E even when the animation connected - Riot spaghetti code at work.
: At the moment you can have s many different composition: Global map comp with galio/noc/shen/sion. Dive comp (gragas/alistar/ornn) Splitpushing comp (camille, jax, irelia) Late game comp (tristana, ryze, viktor followed by heavy tank/peeler). Mid game comp (using skarner oppressice level 6 along a varus/kaisa/draven and an agressive support to have a huge pressure on lane to snowball early or take too much objectives). You can play tanks or tank counter or heavy scaling/splitpushed on top. It is possible to pick some assassin mid for pressure or go on a heavy pushing mage or take a teamfight/support oriented mage or more of a pick up/lockdown mage. Junglzr depend of what you want, I dont think that the number of pick is that high but their role is very different. Support is most often vanguarg (shen/tahm/braul) or hard engage tank (alistar/leona/tresh), not much to see. Possibility of some mage for pressure and also soraka as a counter pick. Adc is basically varus as the top pick, kaisa for the insane mid game, draven for early pressure and snowballing mid game, tristana as the true late game adc, lucian as a lane bully with heavy pressure if ahead. Some mage like heimer/velkoz/ziggs depending of what is needed. And we didnt see everything yet so... I am pretty sure the diversity of the nature of the pick in this worlf meta is more balanced and logical. Maybe less champ but I am fairly confident it is far more diverse in term of strategy and said viability for said strategy.
........ Those aren't new. Global comp was a thing before. As was Diving, Splitpushing, Late-game. Those are literally all team-comps that have existed since the dawn of the game because those champions do something called **_synergize_**. So when you have a comp that **_synergizes_**, it tends to beat a comp that doesn't synergize at all, with the only meta breaking that being season 7 when there was an enchanter - quite basically that meta was take a hyper-carry, slap a shield on them, and let them carry the game, so in most cases the only picks that really mattered were those made in bot-lane. What you've pointed out is literally nothing new. Even season 4 had a pretty wide range of options for team comps so long as, again, _**your picks had synergy**_. Season 5 was the best example because not only did _every_ champion - literally _every single_ champion that was in the game at that point - make an appearance, but _every_ team comp was viable. So you've named nothing new. Once again, the only real season that you can argue had less diversity than this season was 7, and it's literally because it was borderline _mandatory_ to bring enchanters. So the argument for a while hasn't been whether or not you can find a team-comp that works - it's that champion diversity is moldy dick.
: It is a fallacious point, as usual. There will ALWAYS be a dominant pick in some lane, at the moment you mentionned Kaisa but the most banned ADC is Varus... Varus is a top pick and the reason people pick Kaisa is because Varus is banned, making her easier to pick and less able to be counterpicked botlane. Botlane is always about picking the most wanted ADC, and except if it counter a comp, it will always follow the top/high tiers. If you nerf crit ADC, people will always pick on-hit/lane dominant/strong mid game ADC: Kaisa, Varus, Draven, Lucian & Xayah. Nobody said Graves is broken (and it is convenient that we say what one announcer say, considering the NUMEROUS number of thing they said and people mentionning other champions being super strong, etc...), we have seen TONS of Gragas (with insane play btw), quite a bit of nocturne, we have seen some xin zhao, a lot of skarner, etc. And yes, of course Akali shroud is powerful, it is her playmaker ability but watch the world and tell me how much Akali dominated? We have seen Lissandra as a counter, we have seen Zilean, Syndra, Orianna, Galio, Urgot, Corki... She didn't over dominate, it is like saying "The power of Orianna ultimate" and then being like "WOW YOU SEE? ORIANNA IS REALLY BROKEN BECAUSE HE SAID IT WAS POWERFUL". This world meta is actually the most diverse in term of possibility of composition... It isn't perfect ofc, and I am not telling you that Kaisa doesn't need tuning, but what you claim is so wrong...
> [{quoted}](name=Nevrankroaton,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mEEk9A5G,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-10-08T14:09:25.381+0000) > **This world meta is actually the most diverse in term of possibility of composition...** No, that was season 5. I will say that the enchanter meta was far less diverse, but this season isn't particularly diverse, either.
: By the looks that you uninstalled the game, why are you still talking about it?
> [{quoted}](name=JPLangley,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5kBklePE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-10-03T21:53:39.445+0000) > > By the looks that you uninstalled the game, why are you still talking about it? Same reason there are people who'll talk about sports teams that moved away from their cities or people who'll talk about old jobs they used to have. Some people actually did care about the subject matter. I'm sure there's something you like that I might find fun but I could drop it in an instant, kick it to the side and say, "Meh, whatever," while you'd still think back fondly on what it used to be and be sad it's gone. So a fair amount of people liked this game for its glory days, when it was actually something worth the care. Honestly, people like you always confound me because you can never step away from yourself and realize that everyone has different tastes, so things you don't care much for other people very well may. Not everybody gives a shit about the local sports teams, and not everybody wants to frequent the local bars to get shitfaced, nor does everyone care about whatever show went downhill for you and that you say sucks nowadays. People like what they like. Don't begrudge them it. Not like this world provides more joy than hardship to begin with.
: BuT YoRiCk Is PoOrLy DeSiGneD AnD iS DuMb ChAmPiOn- Jax Mains, 2018
It's funny because Jax naturally counters literally every aspect of Yorick's kit except the fact that Yorick is supposed to be stronger early game (no longer since the nerfs, go figure).
Kadexe (EUW)
: Okay but we're simply asking for a buff to his waveclear, not his damage or mobility or anything that would make him pentakill easier.
Except one of the issues is when he just split-pushes - as a champion who is fucking _absurd_ when it comes to a 1v1 (in that anyone who isn't a fed as fuck assassin can't fight him during his R), the last thing I would justify him having is the ability to split-push efficiently, especially someone who dispatches of opponents with a speed that Zed and Talon could only dream of. Yi is fine as he is. Until he gets reworked, he should 100% stay just on the under-side of viable, and that isn't even that bad or an all-inclusive case considering he still breaks the game if the enemy fails to take enough CC.
: > [{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HAnqrQTv,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-01T16:55:18.431+0000) > > Oh no, a game where the enemy team countered you. Wonder what other champions that shows up on? > > Right now, Yi's only "counters" are point-and-click CC champs since trying to aim shit at Yi is faulty at best. You _have_ to build against Yi not in items but in team-comp instead, and it makes the entire game anti-fun for both sides when you can pretty much win a teamfight, have used pretty much all your shit, and have one asshole on a point-and-click champion just rush in and clean up off resets with a free untargetable ability. > > I'm not going to argue that he's OP. I will argue that he is cancerous to deal with and makes the game feel fucking awful when you're staring at a ticking time-bomb that loves to split-push and make the game feel even worse than just his presence allows for. He's like if Tryndamere didn't require his undying ult and instead just immediately deleted anyone that came close. I will agree that Yi is unfun to play against, but its only when people don't take time to understand the source of his damage. It is common sense not to attempt to fight a split pushing Yi with full stacks of rageblade and conqueror proc'd so you really have no one to blame but yourself when you do get deleted. There's always an interval where his stacks and conq wears off before the next wave of minions arrives so its just about being sensible and picking the right time to go in. Also, using alpha strike as an excuse that he can dodge every cc is just plain unreasonable. its just as hard for Yi mains to dodge it just as hard as it is for you guys to hit it. And that's not even taking into account all the buggy interactions which causes it to fail against certain champions. And Yi's alpha of dodging cc can absolutely work against him if you time your cc right by ccing him right after he comes out of alpha, which makes it impossible for the Yi to avoid it. Also the resets thing literally applies to every champion with resets
Except if he's already nearing your turret then he just resets all the stacks on the turret and the stacks last a good 3-4 seconds each. No it's not just because "people don't take the time to understand the source of his damage", it's because his damage is fucking cancer. And "just as hard for Yi to dodge CC as it is for you to land it" is a fucking _pitiful_ argument in itself - so if the CC is easy to land then it's super easy to dodge then, right? But then if the CC is hard as fuck to land then it must be hard to dodge it. You see how bad of an argument that is? Yi is unfun to play against because what he does is completely unfair - try all that you want, and he right clicks you and kills you. He solo's the entire roster minus Fizz come 30 minutes and he does it in a way that is infuriating - it's not hitting a skill shot, it's not doing a full combo, it's pressing R, sprinting up to you, and auto-ing you to death. And CC'ing him right out of alpha is faulty at best when he gets a guaranteed auto right out of alpha. Half the time that's the killing blow once he's at end-game, especially if he's going the newer stormrazor Yi build. Like it or not, your "main" is fucking cancer.
Mael bro (EUNE)
: What about this shit? {{champion:39}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:39}}
Naolk (EUW)
: Please Riot, fix Yorick Arclight skin color, is too yellow.
This was brought up before the skin was released and I will now give you Riot's answer: "Fuck you Yorick isn't as popular as other champs so we're not putting in that kind of work." I may be paraphrasing.
: In what fucking world is Zed balanced?
Pretty sure the exact state of Zed is that he is broken in terms of when his power is. Early he is a fucking obnoxiously unfair douche-canoe that procs two items worth of free damage off of an ult, drops a 300 damage summoner spell on you, and then spams laugh afterwards, while late-game he sucks donkey chode as everyone and their mother has GA and Zhonya's and the tanks just giggle at his attempts to do much of anything. I have asked multiple times to stop this "LolgottawinearlyorI'mworthlessasdogshit" balancing nonsense with Zed, but Rito doesn't care. Just pumped more power into his early and hoped that balanced out his win-rates versus putting in effort to make the champion itself more balanced.
: Right. Last game i played on him (not on this account of course) had a Fiddle mid, Jax jg, and Raka support. I could not help in teamfights as hard as i tried. If i jump on Fiddle he fears me then i cant even Qss because raka E and or Jax jumps on me. Oh btw they have a xayah adc so i could never kill her either. We ended up winning because our Janna was god tier at peeling for our Kog but DAMN that game was annoying
Oh no, a game where the enemy team countered you. Wonder what other champions that shows up on? Right now, Yi's only "counters" are point-and-click CC champs since trying to aim shit at Yi is faulty at best. You _have_ to build against Yi not in items but in team-comp instead, and it makes the entire game anti-fun for both sides when you can pretty much win a teamfight, have used pretty much all your shit, and have one asshole on a point-and-click champion just rush in and clean up off resets with a free untargetable ability. I'm not going to argue that he's OP. I will argue that he is cancerous to deal with and makes the game feel fucking awful when you're staring at a ticking time-bomb that loves to split-push and make the game feel even worse than just his presence allows for. He's like if Tryndamere didn't require his undying ult and instead just immediately deleted anyone that came close.
CLG ear (NA)
: So far I've lost 30 pounds
Not sure what the Lyndis picture is about, but good for you.
Rioter Comments
: And people hated the tank meta for how stale it was.
You mean the meta where the entire roster was considered playable? Yes. "Stale".
: An opinion cannot be subjective or objective. Damage is higher, sure. But the measure of “too high” isn’t something that can be quantified, and therefore an opinion on it cannot be right or wrong.
Dude. An opinion is subjective. Objective is unbiased. Like the literal definition of subjective is that it is existing within the mind rather than in the material realm. It's hard to take your argument seriously when you're missing the point of words as well. As for the "stability" statement, it means that everything stays the same to how it was without deteriorating and instead slowly returning to a place of homeostasis - since the game has steadily been deteriorating, pushing it further down that road means that it is still unstable. It would be a similar if not identical situation if tanks were absurdly strong and nothing died ever and instead of just kind of evening the game's flaws out for the time being, they implemented an item that gave 150 armor and mini-stunned anyone who auto-attacked the wearer.
Rioter Comments
: Woah.
I do enjoy how GD has basically turned into r/okbuddyretard.
saltran (EUW)
: Because it makes sense and I'm trying to argue with the Gameplay Boards which is a mistake, let me edit my coment to suit better the context. Edit: JHIN IS THE ONLY GOOD DESIGNED ADC NO BRAINDEAD RIGHTCLICK NO MATTER HOW MANY GUINSOOS OR LETHALITY OR STORMRAZOR HE ABUSES HE IS THE PINNACLE OF DESIGN BECAUSE 4 JOKES HA HA HA NERF EVERYTHING BUT HIM.
No, it's because you're still wrong about Jhin being the problem. Jhin was perfectly serviceable and in an okay spot before Stormrazor. He was out of the meta because he's an immobile ADC that couldn't take towers efficiently. Even with his "two-shot" builds, he still needed at the _least_ three items to pull it off, where as a lot of ADC's at the time only needed the two - IE and some crit item. During the initial ADC item rework this season and Stormrazor's addition, Jhin was still trash tier due to his relative immobility compared to other ADC's, and Lucian was utterly dominating in botlane. Stormrazor, on the other hand, is an item that was initially abused to hell by assassins and was mediocre on ADC's, and now it just offers a straight up obnoxious amount of movement speed to ADC's so they can chase and clean-up post fight or run away from anything they don't want to deal with. Stormrazor is the problem. It is not a good item, it is a stupid overloaded shitshow that doesn't belong. In fact, if you ditched the MS increase on the item altogether, it would be trash tier as an item and nobody would buy it and Jhin wouldn't even be broken anymore.
: No only one champion is OP atm with that item and it's Jhin. So yes Jhin is the Problem. If they gutted the item instead Jhin would still maintain his relative strength in relation to the other ADCs. Other ADCs are building that item and not dominating like him, it makes zero sense to nerf an item because of one champion. This would be Ezreal all over again.
The item is a cancerous shit-stain on the game and should be removed, not nerfed. Trying to force it into the game and balancing Jhin around it would force Jhin to be 100% reliant upon the item like Ezreal became reliant upon Klepto. You act like you don't learn from Riot's past mistakes - Klepto was also a cancerous shit-stain rune that needed to be nerfed to oblivion to keep it from causing champs who abused it from just snowballing on top of snowballing. Let's also recall that before Stormrazor, Jhin wasn't the best ADC in the game. Even after Stormrazor was implemented, Lucian was the one dominating bot and making it hell - that's why he took nerfs in the very next patch after Storm was added. Jhin was also practically irrelevant during the entire bruiser-bot invasion, as he was basically feasted on for free. And even before that, it was Caitlyn/Twitch/Tristana who were still chowing down on botlane and causing havoc. The item is the issue. Jhin wasn't an issue until the item was added. The item isn't even a fucking good or healthy item to begin with and is near identical to Duskblade in how overloaded it is. Get rid of the item.
: It's still Jhin's passive that is at fault here, otherwise how would you explain him abusing each and every AD itemisation path? Guinsoo's most definitely wasn't at fault, it was Jhin's passive (as noted by the bugfix being on Jhin's passive not Guinsoo's itself. Lethality, Jhin's ridiculous scalings were at fault, this is the one buildpath where you can say that his passive was NOT at fault. Crit, yes his passive was most certainly at fault. Watch any clickbait-y YouTuber play Jhin on release and you'll immediately notice that their builds let them have ~800-1k AD, so yes, that was Jhin's passive at fault; which Riot bugfixed. Also he was not "on par" with other ADCs, at that time he was still maintaining a solid 52-54% winrate with a 20% pickrate, he was kinda good.... MF was/is causing problems? I wonder why, maybe it's because of her broken passive. Wait, who would've guessed, she ALSO has a passive that fundamentally breaks her when she builds a certain way making her inherently unfun to play against.....what are the odds? Now we're at Stormrazor. You say that assassins are the ones abusing Stormrazor and yet the only assassin who abuses it is Rengar, and even then it's just a win-more item on him. It's too much of a win-more item for assassins to efficiently abuse on a game to game basis. Zed doesn't want it all the time, nor does Talon, and it doesn't even work properly on Shaco (his passive damage is actually REDUCED if he buys Stormrazor). Jhin's passive is at fault, otherwise how does he reach movements of ~547-760? That just doesn't make sense. No other ADC runs as fast as Jhin does when he procs Stormrazor's crit, so what does that tell you? It tells you that Jhin's passive is being nonsensical again. Hail of Blades was actually always the keystone for Jhin, it's just that it took time for people to realise. Fleet Footwork was most certainly great, but Hail of Blades just screams Jhin Jhin Jhin since he naturally wants raw attack speed to amp. his AD AND he can cleanly charge it if he weaves in and out of fights. It's the worst rune in the game for everyone except Jhin. Although I will say one thing, this keystone is so underused that nerfing it would just discourage any further experimentation with it past Jhin, so I'm in favour of changing Jhin's passive. I'm not advocating for a direct nerf per say, I just want his passive's numbers to be reasonable as to ensure that he doesn't just abuse every new AD item/trend that pops up.
Again, you're confusing "abused" for "benefited". At _no_ point in _any_ of those instances was Jhin top-of-the-line. Jhin remained middle to upper-middle class as an ADC through _all_ of that, and even when upper-middle you were looking at just topping off at 7 out of 17 of the ADC's at the time. Lucian has a near _identical_ history of breaking AD items as Jhin, yet he is nowhere in your rambling nonsense of a post. If Jinx topped the class in the future, you'd probably site this as being a period when she was "breaking Stormrazor because it let her reach her ridiculous late-game quicker". You need to learn the difference between _breaking_ - I.E., Ezreal with Klepto, Lucian with Black Cleaver, Jhin now with Stormrazor - and _being relevant_. Jhin was not, at all, relevant the first _half_ of this season and was middle of the road or even worse - he was completely immobile and exploded if an assassin so much as poked him in the shins. Even with Guinsoo's, _again, Jhin had to reach his late-game first_. Which Jhin generally _did not_ because, again, _Jhin is a fuckin' immobile ADC_. What you're basically saying is, "Make the ADC with no escape, a set attack speed, and no natural defenses completely unable to deal with his competition." Jhin couldn't even two-shot enemy ADC's - which was the only thing problematic with Guinsoo's - until the game was pushing 40-50 minutes or Jhin was _absurdly_ fed, and both occurrences required him to build so squishy he could still be nuked. He didn't have the same absurd movement speed boost he's getting now to bolt from any danger, if you got on him he was still likely going to die unless you built straight squish. Your problem with Jhin appears to be similar to Lee Sin and Thresh in earlier seasons - you think that by seeing a lot of him, he must be broken or powerful. Truth is Jhin is usually never broken. People just like him, along with the versatility he can provide - an ADC that can occasionally bring the ability of an assassin to guarantee low-health finishes as well as bringing solid catch potential isn't something to scoff at. But if you want to talk _broken_, check Tristana's passive history and her relevance at any given point - that was _actually_ broken. By the way, Hail of Blades was never "the rune" for Jhin and in fact until Stormrazor was added wasn't even his highest winrate rune - it was Fleet Footwork that was highest, with Arcane Comet being the most chosen. Hail of Blades was known as most effective on Jhin due to the fact it did give him a good burst of power during combat, but was inferior in that it meant Jhin's in-lane sustain was significantly lowered and he was subject to getting jumped until he had items to boost his crit passive. While Hail of Blades was _usable_ on Jhin, it put him in too much danger (I.E. he truly had no escape and couldn't recover if behind in lane) and ultimately was just worse than his other rune choices that allowed him to not have to eat shit early game. Hail of Blades was also added as a competitor to the other "assassin" oriented runes as a way for on-hit champions and three-hit-passive champions to do their job with relative quickness and ease - problem being that this is only really relevant early as later basically all applications would be done during a team-fight and the assassin would have to get out of combat completely to re-apply the buff, not to mention having to still auto 3 times is still a much slower process than just making someone explode. ADC's couldn't see decent use out of it compared to their other keystones since it dropped their sustained damage tremendously. The rune is awful, flat out without question shit tier. It was an okay concept that was executed poorly, and should just be scrapped since the idea of three quick autos holding the same bursting power as electrocute at all is an idea that will either always not be the case or when it is the case, means that that rune is likely completely busted.
: See, we would agree, but Jhin has proven time and time again that his passive is poorly thought out and it really does need to be changed. Every single time new AD items are released or already existing AD items are reworked Jhin **will** find a way to abuse it/them to the max. First it was crit. giving him up to 1100 AD, then it was lethality, then it was Guinsoo's, then lethality again and now Stormrazor as well as Hail of Blades. They really do need to fix his passive.
I'm not sure you know what "abuse" means. Jhin didn't "abuse" crit. Jhin was on par kind of sort of not really with other ADC's while building crit because he needed a way to offset the fact he had to wait several seconds to keep firing while other ADC's didn't. Jhin basically was good at dispatching squishy targets while being ineffective at killing tankier units. This was directly offset by the fact he shared the same place as Jinx - completely immobile outside of their passives, so once you jumped them they died. Lethality wasn't "abused" either, as Jhin still only came in middling while MF was the one actually causing immense problems due to her asinine early game. Guinsoo's was something of a coin flip, as it didn't break Jhin until way later in the game - basically Jhin still needed to get built before it did anything truly beneficial, so he could still be shut down early with no issue. Until Jhin's crit was stacked alongside Guinsoo's it did nothing for him. This was also the actual thing giving him 1100 AD, mind you. And now we have Stormrazor. You can't even lump Hail of Blades in there as it's been there for a fuckin' _while_ and was considered the worst rune in the game - still is. It's the fact that Fleet Footwork's nerf combined with the celerity buff (changes) gave a bunch of free AD with movement speed, so Jhin could stack MS with AS and gain additional AD on top of his AS-AD scaling. That is the _only_ thing that put Hail of Blades up higher than Fleet Footwork on Jhin. The rest of it is Stormrazor doing its work - Jhin wasn't even as nightmarish when it was just a 10% movement speed increase, but that meant assassins were actually the ones abusing Stormrazor, not even Jhin - crit ADC's were still getting shit on and Jhin was still catchable. Then they switched some of the AD into AS on Stormrazor - which meant Jhin still benefited from bonus AD, but also gained MS on crit. Then they also increased the movement speed boost given on hit - which meant Jhin now benefited _absurdly_ from it. That's why he's zipping around and chasing people down right now. It's not Jhin. Just like we haven't "fixed" Lucian for breaking Black Cleaver/Essence Reaver on their releases, Jhin shouldn't be "fixed" for a couple items being released that not only are problematic to begin with, but that break him rather than the other way around.
: In the original lore, they got married because Tryndamere's tribe was marauding across the Freljord and ended up attacking Ashe's people (for things like food, necessities, etc.). Simultaneously, Sejuani was attacking from the opposite side. Ashe needed an army and to get one of them to stop, so the political marriage with Tryndamere happened. His people got a home, Ashe got an army. In the current lore, Tryndamere's people were slaughtered by Aatrox, and now Tryndamere is an angry murder-hobo walking around looking for Aatrox to get revenge...I predict he becomes Aatrox's new host. I can't see any way to reconcile these two things to make it so that the political marriage still happens, as Tryndamere has absolutely nothing to offer Ashe anymore, the entire impetus behind the thing is gone, and he would have to give up on his revenge, which probably ain't happening. Edit: whoops, meant to respond to Toxic Control. Sorry for pinging you. In response to YOU, a jealous Tryndamere is rather funny to imagine
That's actually disappointing that they scrapped the political marriage bit. That was actually one of the most actually unbelievably "real" character relationships in the entire game. No pomp or circumstance or the usual "oh it's true love" or some kind of gradual bonding - no, just a hasty marriage between rulers to bring two factions together. Just the "political marriage" piece of lore in general always held so much weight behind it whenever it was mentioned because if you tried to get into that kind of discussion nowadays you'd be shot out of a cannon about how you were objectifying women or the like, even though neither side is likely to enjoy being forced into a marriage. Maybe Riot really has lost their spine...
LTK KoRo (EUW)
: People on boards are also complaning about Duskblade and Zed, i wouldn't take them seriously
Duskblade is an overtuned item that will either be too weak to purchase or too strong to pass up and is a staple in its respective role. Zed just gets to benefit from it. I would say the same thing for Zed as I would for Jhin: Zed wasn't fucking unbearable until Duskblade dropped. Obnoxious, sure - unbearable, no.
: His ult is just him remembering all the men who want his wife.
To be fair, in the original lore I'm pretty sure it was a lukewarm-at-best political marriage and the two wouldn't be too broken up if one or the other died.
saltran (EUW)
: Lucian with StormR LUL Yep, it's the Gameplay Boards.
Oh hey, you pointed out literally one ADC of that group that doesn't _commonly_ build Stormrazor. So what's your comment on the rest of them then? Or were you just going to overlook that tidbit?
saltran (EUW)
: Kai'Sa goes {{item:3095}} because Rito has been nerfing {{item:3124}} as first item along all this season (a good idea imo) and they also nerfed her Q interaction with {{item:3812}} so she doesn't heal as much as she did on release with Q. But you have to keep other fact in mind to understand why does Kai'Sa go StormR first: with just{{item:3095}} and {{item:3124}} she is able to upgrade her Q AND E, this means that she gets a massive power spike at 2 items that it's not comparable to the intended{{item:3095}} users like {{champion:51}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:498}} {{champion:222}} that all go{{item:3095}} as first item because the path that they used to build ({{item:1038}} into Zeal item into{{item:3031}} ) is atrocious after the 8.11 crit items change. This topic needs a more deep view than just "LOL Kai'Sa builds StormR nerf that" And regardless Jhin, he IS the problem, to be more accurate: the interaction between his passive and {{item:3095}} is a problem that only appears on him out of all adcs. On Spring 2017 {{champion:51}} was really strong and one of the reasons was that her passive interaction with {{item:3085}} gave her too much single target dps in teamfights (because she stacked the Headshot too easy due to the Runaan's bolts on others targets) And you know what they did? They removed the interaction with her passive and Runaan, not nerfed all Runaan users by gutting the item. They just need to tweak the interaction between Jhin passive and StormR.
Jhin is not the only problem. Stormrazor is a "win more" item similar to Duskblade. Once a champ builds Stormrazor, the speed boost is universal and doesn't care who's using it - just because Jhin breaks it doesn't mean other champs don't abuse it. If you're behind versus Stormrazor, unless you can put a wall between you and the assailant, you will be chased down. If you try to turn, they will just outrun you. It's not just Jhin. Having {{champion:67}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:222}} {{champion:145}} - really, any ADC ever that builds this nightmare of an item - hound you until the end of time because they stagger their autos a bit just to keep chasing you is a god awful way to have to play the game. Stormrazor basically allows the ADC that's ahead with it to choose when they want to fight you. It is not a healthy item in the slightest.
Rioter Comments
AmazoX (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=WEqukdkj,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-09-23T06:59:17.903+0000) > > If by "outplayable" you mean "he tries to go Faker mechanical and ends up fucking himself over", then yes. He means by his not as brain dead as Yi,Jax,Trynd,Xin whom right click you to death with strong defensive buff with a press of a button.
> [{quoted}](name=AmazoX,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=WEqukdkj,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-09-23T07:58:08.334+0000) > > He means by his not as brain dead as Yi,Jax,Trynd,Xin whom right click you to death with strong defensive buff with a press of a button. Pretty sure Yas can still right-click people to death come end-game no problem. They're all stupid. Just because one is more stupid than the other doesn't make any of them not fucking stupid.
Rioter Comments
: [UNPOPULAR OPINION ON BOARDS] Let’s not beat this male sexism thing into the ground, okay?
They're not equatable. It's two different forms of sexism, one visible and outspoken (the barring of males from half of the PAX docket), the other is quiet and more under-the-hood. Don't lessen one to try and make the other more important - they're both fuckin' awful practices, plain and simple. No, we shouldn't ignore the sexism against women and non-binary folk that takes place inside the company. But no, we also shouldn't ignore the barring of men from the event. It's not a "This event is more important than the other one, so ignore that other one", it's that both occurrences must be accounted for and answered for. Actually, pretty sure a fair amount of the people denouncing Riot for PAX also pointed out that "answering for your sexist ways by switching to the other extreme isn't the correct way to deal with this" as well, meaning that a lot of people agree to this point - both must be answered for. I'm not saying that some people hijacked the issue to their own ends, but with the Internet being the great heaping mess of politics it is nowadays, sometimes you will have to just use your judgment and ignore the asinine arguments and focus on the ones with actual merit. You can just as easily apply that to some of the feminazi levels of left-extremism versus the actually valid statements and posts of the more general feminist/liberal. Both have bad apples - just because you're more attached to one side than the other doesn't mean you shouldn't take the time to recognize this fact. In other words - no, beat this dead horse and beat the other one while you're at it. You have two hands, don't you?
: So, Netflix is supposedly going to cast a non-white actress as Ciri for their Witcher show
I hope they pull a Tupac instead and have Stefan Karl Stefansson play Geralt as a hologram.
: >The true damage guarantees you can't actually itemize against Jax. It's not like you could itemize efficiently against him before. He does deal magic damage too, after all.
While true, his damage was lower due to him having to scale first, and his first items were generally AD if he didn't want to get blown up, which meant after laning if he didn't come out on top (which with literally no poke and previously not having the ability to just all-in freely without getting punished to hell, he usually came up either just even or getting stomped) Jax had a period of "down time" in which he basically was nothing but a periphery in any team skirmishes, either being on clean-up duty or having to back out relatively quickly. Now he just leaps in and kills the ADC without a second thought. Unless you have the CC to keep him at bay, he pretty much just rolls his face on the keyboard and stomps his way forward.
: Here is Jax in a nutshell-- Builds Trinity+Titanic+Steraks(Bruiser). Becomes God tier assassin(wtf?). Becomes God tier bruiser(Okay, makes sense.). Becomes God tier tank(wtf?). Becomes God tier sustained dps(wtf?). Has S tier mobility. Has outplay potential. He is overloaded to an extreme. He is a Assassin, Tank, hypercarry all at the same time. Obviously needs to be nerfed into only fulfilling 1 role with a freakin bruiser build.
That was never really a problem before (I mean excluding his release and when dodge stat was a thing, good lord). Issue isn't so much Jax as the meta and Conqueror allows him to do shit he shouldn't. Jax now out-trades tanks in lane and brute-forces them to oblivion. Jax gets a myriad of free stats to aid his historically dog-shit early-game, including bonus AD from Conq and the bonus bulk from his ult. The true damage guarantees you can't actually itemize against Jax. And in a time when the most oppressive enemies are bursty-as-fuck champions from botlane, being able to render them completely meaningless is a _very_ powerful trait.
uNhoLeee (OCE)
: Good. Now he can go fight for feminism and sexism in Israel or Africa.
> [{quoted}](name=uNhoLeee,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PhMKWOOl,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2018-09-07T18:45:21.963+0000) > > Good. Now he can go fight for feminism and sexism in Israel or Africa. Isn't that where he'd get beheaded for that?
Rαy (EUW)
: Daniel Z. Klein not working for Riot Games anymore
Swear to god, if Klein and Lehman are just who they offloaded the blame onto... Like, don't get me wrong, Klein deserved some significant punishment for his actions, but if they see this as a show of "good faith" and expect us to forget that Riot themselves passed the PAX decision **on top of them being ousted as sexist fucks**, they're going to be sorely mistaken.
: Just because they didn't make a public Gaddafi video of him doesn't mean he wasnt punished. I know at my job we don't get on the PA and announce to all the customers when someone was written up. I can't imagine why Riot would be different
> [{quoted}](name=420 grams,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gVnUPgUa,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-09-06T16:29:45.982+0000) > > Just because they didn't make a public Gaddafi video of him doesn't mean he wasnt punished. I know at my job we don't get on the PA and announce to all the customers when someone was written up. I can't imagine why Riot would be different Except that Riot released an official statement on Riot Sanjuro that they had "severed ties" with him. AKA fired his ass.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Labias Fate,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2bZ5VH01,comment-id=00000015,timestamp=2018-09-06T19:54:23.118+0000) > > It's not. Everyone of every gender gets harassed online in games.. men certainly do but they don't receive insults based on their genders
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2bZ5VH01,comment-id=000000150000,timestamp=2018-09-06T20:43:20.889+0000) > > men certainly do > but they don't receive insults based on their genders It's because insults based on gender are easy. I've already said this, but I'll say it again: if you're trying to get under somebody's skin, most of the times you're not going to be elaborate, you're just going to shoot for what you know will probably work. For female gamers in competitive games, the easiest target is their gender - since they're already considered uncommon in **competitive** (exclamation point emphasis, I get that women are gamers, too, but there is a difference in general genre preference between sexes), most women will already feel self-conscious about their sex in a competitive game, so it's the _easiest target to insult._ Males don't have that same air about them - since we make up more of the competitive community, it looks more as if we "belong" there, and so we get targeted for everything else. The tables would most certainly be reversed were we to look into something that is more dominated by women as opposed to men. Can practically guarantee if we went to a hair salon and told a guy he doesn't seem like he belongs there because he's male, he'd probably be far more bothered by that statement than any female ever would. You will tend to be more self-conscious in areas where you're already pre-disposed to believe you don't quite "match" those around you, and unless there's a perfect 50/50 spread (which there will practically never be in League, I'm sorry to say) one side will always feel kind of like an outsider.
: > [{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PEvopjiJ,comment-id=00020006,timestamp=2018-09-05T04:02:42.453+0000) > > So I'm going to repeat this for the tenth time since you also seem to be a sorely misinformed person: > > #Males did not wait a couple hours for a panel. > > #Males were excluded from 4 and a half hours of panels each day of Pax which composed of over half of the events of Pax, leaving men with literally only LCS viewing, cosplay, and the narrative presentation in the main hall. > > #They had to pay the same price to get a ticket to this event as a female/non-binary person would for literally a fraction of the content without ample prior information before buying the tickets to the event. > > #In fact, the original Pax West post Riot put out did not even say that men were excluded, this was instead covered in an answer by a Rioter to a comment in the thread, and this answer was downvoted so much that it no longer showed up normally. > > For the love of fuck, if you're going to put your "two cents" in, at least make sure that it's actual copper coins and not plastic play coins you use in your toy register. Get informed on the goddamn topic. Boo hoo
> [{quoted}](name=Grimspeake,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PEvopjiJ,comment-id=000200060000,timestamp=2018-09-06T14:26:11.736+0000) > > Boo hoo Tell ya what. You buy a ticket on a plane in advance, board the plane, then get asked to get off and wait a day for another flight because they overbooked the flight, next day you get on and you get a downgraded seat in the back of the plane. Then come back and tell me what you thought of that service. Then I'll just say "boo hoo" to you.
: An in-depth analysis: In this scenario Akali has a single drink and leaves early because as it turns out she wasn't the intended audience for the bar and she doesn't much care for the place. Meanwhile with Shen being a regular he would have actually stayed through the night and invited his friend Kennen "The Heart of the Tempest" who on top of being enthusiastic would bring energy to the place and actually encourage Shen to get drunker off of Hextech ches- I mean, Ionian liquor. Therefor, in trying to pander to sensationalist med- I mean, rogue assassins as opposed to their actual customers the bar actually made a horrible mistake. Not only because they've given credibility to claims that they mistreat ninjas but furthermore because they've capitulated to not just Ninjas, but rogue assassins - an element that is actually harmful to society despite their best interests. I'm particularly proud of how well the characters actually fit into the situation. Man, I hope that bartender fixes their mistake soon. Shen will probably stick around for awhile because he's a loyal guy but I'm not so sure about Kennen. As for Akali? Well, I mean, she doesn't even go to the place. Maybe a rogue assassin every now and then might go to the bar but they're a rare exception.
> [{quoted}](name=TheFoxWolf,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4JuHo1FZ,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-09-06T04:40:10.218+0000) > > An in-depth analysis: > > In this scenario Akali has a single drink and leaves early because as it turns out she wasn't the intended audience for the bar and she doesn't much care for the place. Meanwhile with Shen being a regular he would have actually stayed through the night and invited his friend Kennen "The Heart of the Tempest" who on top of being enthusiastic would bring energy to the place and actually encourage Shen to get drunker off of Hextech ches- I mean, Ionian liquor. Therefor, in trying to pander to sensationalist med- I mean, rogue assassins as opposed to their actual customers the bar actually made a horrible mistake. Not only because they've given credibility to claims that they mistreat ninjas but furthermore because they've capitulated to not just Ninjas, but rogue assassins - an element that is actually harmful to society despite their best interests. > > I'm particularly proud of how well the characters actually fit into the situation. Man, I hope that bartender fixes their mistake soon. Shen will probably stick around for awhile because he's a loyal guy but I'm not so sure about Kennen. As for Akali? Well, I mean, she doesn't even go to the place. Maybe a rogue assassin every now and then might go to the bar but they're a rare exception. Not to mention with how much Shen sucks right now, he could really use a few shots to take the edge off...
: > [{quoted}](name=Leetri,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2bZ5VH01,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2018-09-06T05:36:03.420+0000) > > You'd be surprised how unwelcoming some communities are to women. Basically every single time I play overwatch and there's a girl in the voice chat the rest of the team starts either hitting on her or saying sexist stuff to the point that she either leaves voice chat or leaves the game completely. The one and only exception is if she's in a premade with 2+ friends, cause then the sexist idiots are outnumbered. Two of my best friends are women and they have to deal with idiots like that constantly. > You'd think voice chat would make people less toxic, but nooooope. I've heard worse things in Overwatch voice chat than in all my years playing League. That pales in comparison to the amount of things males say to other males. Period.
> [{quoted}](name=yaboydanny,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2bZ5VH01,comment-id=00180000,timestamp=2018-09-06T06:28:20.613+0000) > > That pales in comparison to the amount of things males say to other males. Period. Basically this. A lot of people forget: It's probably not as often plain sexism so much as it is harassment or just plain bullying. So when somebody really wants to get at you or press your buttons, first thing they're going to try and find is your vulnerability - whatever will piss you off the most or make you upset. For women, since it's one of the more uncommon hobbies for them to play **competitive** games, first thing they're going to target is your sex because it's really easy. The reason guys don't get their sex targeted (unless they're in a game with mostly females, in which case, hilariously, the tables get flipped so hard I legitimately couldn't stop laughing throughout that entire game of Left 4 Dead) is because since we're more common in competitive games, we seem like we "fit in" more. So it goes straight to game ability, our mothers, or any number of other things that trolls and teenagers have to spitball at in order to get a rise out of someone. So while the concept may seem completely insane, astronomical odds are that when somebody's harassing you for your sex, there's some good odds it's not actually out of hate for women as a whole - it's probably because they want a rise out of you. And when it comes to League and its anonymity of age and otherwise, guarantee you most of the people harassing you are under the age of 18.
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Toxic Control

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