: The most iconic part of his kit provides easy access to untargetability for champions that were never intended to have it. Breaking the game's fundamental assumptions generally results in a kit that can't be balanced, so it gets nerfed into the ground while it waits for a rework.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R6AVBc5f,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-20T03:52:26.029+0000) > > The most iconic part of his kit provides easy access to untargetability for champions that were never intended to have it. Breaking the game's fundamental assumptions generally results in a kit that can't be balanced, so it gets nerfed into the ground while it waits for a rework. Yeah, that's pretty much the issue -- it's practically only an offensive ability now anyways, they should remove the ability to devour allies in general and make him into a jungler -- at least with the current changes they're giving him. Nerf the Q, put some offensive power on the W, and something for his E and small early game ultimate buff.
Rioter Comments
: > There is no physical way you should ever be trying to trade with a Tahm Kench 1v1 -- that's just a basic rule of the game. He is one of the best duelists (despite the very heavy nerfs he just received, though he has received compensation already on his Q) and since he is designed to kick Tryndamere into obscurity, trading with him at all is borderline suicidal. Are you hearing yourself? You're describing exactly what I'm complaining about, and not justifying it at all. Like how can you say it is never acceptable to trade with Tahm Kench, and then say that the fault lies with me? I should be able to sit in a massive minion wave, and know that he can't just walk into me and auto me to death without hitting any of his tongue lashes. The champion that YOU DESCRIBE is extremely broken.
> [{quoted}](name=Mrs Qtpie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J0UzIiEd,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-07-20T03:53:21.687+0000) > > Are you hearing yourself? You're describing exactly what I'm complaining about, and not justifying it at all. Like how can you say it is never acceptable to trade with Tahm Kench, and then say that the fault lies with me? I should be able to sit in a massive minion wave, and know that he can't just walk into me and auto me to death without hitting any of his tongue lashes. The champion that YOU DESCRIBE is extremely broken. He is a lane bully, not unlike many characters in the game: to a Gangplank, a Tryndamere is practically unkillable in a 1v1 and you don't hear anyone calling Tryndamere OP. Nasus, Renekton, Garen, and Darius can also feel impossible to fight sometimes and can literally run you under tower and kill you -- this is the power of tanky lane bullies. Tahm Kench struggles against champions that are able to trade with him through means outside of his dangerous melee range and even some who can trade with him inside it. Fiora, Vayne, Renekton, Darius, and Garen can all easily out sustain or outdamage the big fish and make him irrelevant if played accordingly. You're literally talking about running one of the characters he hard counters into a 1v1 with him and expecting to come out on top -- Tahm is far from busted post nerfs, but is still annoying into autoattack champions like Tryn.
: > [{quoted}](name=Tahminatrix ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J0UzIiEd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-20T03:44:32.435+0000) > > What are you playing as and what are you even hitting them with, aatrox for example can trade with his passive if he can manage to get in and out easily. Tryndamere based on match history.
> [{quoted}](name=ToxicSquiid,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J0UzIiEd,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-20T03:46:21.338+0000) > > Tryndamere based on match history. Oh, and a touch of Jax, who can trade but only if he times his abilities well.
: What are you playing as and what are you even hitting them with, aatrox for example can trade with his passive if he can manage to get in and out easily.
> [{quoted}](name=Tahminatrix ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J0UzIiEd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-20T03:44:32.435+0000) > > What are you playing as and what are you even hitting them with, aatrox for example can trade with his passive if he can manage to get in and out easily. Tryndamere based on match history.
: You know what my favourite part of Aatrox and Tahm Kench are?
*Checks match history* You do know that Tahm Kench is absolutely the hardest counter to Tryndamere, yeah? There is no physical way you should ever be trying to trade with a Tahm Kench 1v1 -- that's just a basic rule of the game. He is one of the best duelists (despite the very heavy nerfs he just received, though he has received compensation already on his Q) and since he is designed to kick Tryndamere into obscurity, trading with him at all is borderline suicidal. Can't speak on Aatrox since I don't play the guy or against him too often, but he is S-Tier for a reason.
: the lux nerfs.
I'm moreso saying in general that this champ is overtuned. Less about the ultimate, as I usually run tanks anyways and just run her down lmao.
: the lux nerfs.
Yup, an 8-second cool-down for an AP nuke on a support -- sounds totally balanced to me. This champion has been overtuned for patches on end as a support and it honestly needed a heavy gutting. She provides giant shields, negating almost entire health-bars of damage whilst also dealing a cosmic fuck-ton of damage on short CDs. 54% winrate in both pro and below, she's not as frustrating as a Riven, but she had these nerfs coming.
Rioter Comments
: So with the new W —> R change... Does that mean I can go eat anyone? I can run up to their fed ADC and just grab them and run? Doesn’t seem very fair.. If you tell me that I need to apply 3 stacks before using R, that’s also kinda BS. I get a free charm for hitting them 3 times? And then right after I get to eat them? That’ll be one hell of a CC train.
> [{quoted}](name=4G PnutCollida,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l3JmMvly,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-07T06:52:41.096+0000) > > So with the new W —> R change... > > Does that mean I can go eat anyone? I can run up to their fed ADC and just grab them and run? Doesn’t seem very fair.. > > If you tell me that I need to apply 3 stacks before using R, that’s also kinda BS. I get a free charm for hitting them 3 times? And then right after I get to eat them? That’ll be one hell of a CC train. The R would be anyone, but you're still slowed by 95% when eating an enemy, which just serves as hard CC and it has a much higher cool-down than before, and maybe Tahm cannot attack while holding a devoured champion, making this purely either a defensive save or an offensive temporary removal. The charm I was suggesting removes the stacks, so that it would mean burning an ult cool-down to make that the typical scenario, rather than his current 20-second W. In hindsight, I think if his R is that strong at any point in the game, the cool-down should be drastically higher, maybe around (190/160/120) and it serves as either CC/ Damage or purely defensive saves, and maybe a defensive save can restore a little bit of cool-down (20-35%) or so.
Rioter Comments
Haziv (EUW)
: I want to make a petition : Give Shaco a mini-rework like you did for Wukong!
I mean, I love Shaco, but there are much more problematic champs right now, the current topic of debate: {{champion:223}}
: Patch 9.9 notes
{{champion:223}} My best friend ;-;
CLG ear (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ToxicSquiid,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XlxtQQFo,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2019-04-30T17:43:06.469+0000) > > > And WHY Graves and Ezreal? Graves doesn't fit the role, and Ezreal has enough skins to last a lifetime. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
> [{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=XlxtQQFo,comment-id=00100000,timestamp=2019-04-30T17:44:37.074+0000) > > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Damn, ya got me.
: Battle Academia Skins (Ezreal, Graves, Katarina, Jayce, Lux and Yuumi)
So many missed opportunities: And WHY Graves and Ezreal? Graves doesn't fit the role, and Ezreal has enough skins to last a lifetime. {{champion:240}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:36}} Could all have easily replaced Graves
Rioter Comments
SirPurrr (NA)
: NOT A SINGLE JUNGLER WITH A POSITIVE WIN RATE VS UDYR PLAT+
{{champion:223}} Fairly good counter jungler to Udyr's counterjungling, since invading Tahm alone is almost a death sentence, but since he's being removed this patch, I guess someone like Fiddle will do, just fear him before he gets anywhere near you and silence him as you run :P
RR8Rosie (NA)
: You find out you are actually the human counterpart to your favourite champ.
{{champion:223}} Oh no, guess it's time to eat a man's life savings and his wife.
: Early 9.10 Patch Discussion
: I don't main either of them (mildly play Vayne). I don't want either gutted. I don't want **any** champions gutted. It's not healthy for the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=no8wZqh0,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-24T22:14:35.542+0000) > > I don't main either of them (mildly play Vayne). > > I don't want either gutted. I don't want **any** champions gutted. It's not healthy for the game. {{champion:223}}
: They could say more 300 yearold mummified ducks play the game than humans do... How would you prove them wrong? Dont be surprised if they just say random unbelievable stuff.
> [{quoted}](name=WeaselRune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vkWIPYnW,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-04-25T20:52:44.670+0000) > > They could say more 300 yearold mummified ducks play the game than humans do... How would you prove them wrong? > > Dont be suppressed if they just say random unbelievable stuff. Honestly, 300 year-old mummified ducks are probably better team mates than most of the other people on League; I bet they'll believe in you.
: Why do you ban Morgana?
Hard-counters almost every other support due to her ability to completely negate CC, which any good Morg will time almost flawlessly. Hell, she's even annoying mid for mages.
Ospraey (NA)
: The Buffs Gnar REALLY Needs
Or, we could nerf the overtuned opponents in top-lane, because when Gnar is buffed to a certain point, he just breaks everything.
: strongest passive in the game? (just the passive, ignore other aspects)
{{champion:555}} : Best out-of-combat regen, possibly in the entire game. {{champion:6}} : Literally so much damage. {{champion:111}} : Free stun on any enemy champ or minion/monster every 4 seconds. {{champion:516}} : Buy items outside of lane, upgrade allies items, what's not to love?
: Teammates that do no actively ruin the game on purpose. Opponents that would rather play a real match than have no honor.
> [{quoted}](name=Boo Koo God,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZiBBzwQn,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-25T21:17:28.651+0000) > > Teammates that do no actively ruin the game on purpose. Opponents that would rather play a real match than have no honor. Pretty much this. Communication is key, and muting everyone is literally condemning yourself to a lack of map awareness and important queues. People should not be insulted because they are playing a competitive game -- the anonymity on the Internet is what enables it, and such anonymity is not simply going to be removed. So there must be according punishments to people who are just flat-out dicks. No one should have to change the way they play just to avoid other people -- it's a TEAM game and a TEAM, must stick together, even if it's only for a game or grudging through a hard game.
uNhoLeee (OCE)
: when is morello coming back?
When Tahm Kench is Meta again. Since, y'know 44% wr was too fucking crazy.
: Ahri VU?
VGU? -- Hell no. Her kit is innately fine, a few particle changes is all she needs and some new animations and an updated model. But, there's a lot of champions far more in need of VU's and Ahri is not anywhere near the top of that list: {{champion:32}} {{champion:34}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:26}} I would like to see her VU'd, but not until some of the big bois get their much needed ones
: Would you rather have Vayne and Riven be gutted to the ground or keep their current state?
Let's see, they just gutted Kench's DPS from early to late, removed his R until level 11, and made his main support utility worthless because he was "too good of an action-stopper" in high level play, while maintaining a 44% Winrate, at best. Oh, but they gave him some minor reverts to act like it's not a gutting. 10 movespeed, a Q slow, and a little extra HP regen from E. Yeah, they can go. Gut them. The amount of counterplay, or more accurately, lack thereof, is too damn much. If one ability can remove a character like Tahm from every role he has, then I think these two are far overdue with their overtuned kits.
NemeBro (NA)
: Tahm's W on allies has always been broken. It needed to be gutted. Maybe now he can be balanced since he might not be able to brainlessly protect his carry from any retribution if the players are good at all.
> [{quoted}](name=NemeBro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Pv0TOw1,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-04-19T03:24:32.657+0000) > > Tahm's W on allies has always been broken. It needed to be gutted. Maybe now he can be balanced since he might not be able to brainlessly protect his carry from any retribution if the players are good at all. Remember your words when you ping a Tahm missing on your team for not saving you from the 7/1/3 Riven. And if all that he had on him that was broken was a single ability in his entire kit, then he's one of the most balanced characters in the game in its current state.
Alzon (NA)
: Looks pretty good, except for a couple things. 1. The partial refund on Devour’s mana cost and cooldown should be triggered even if the targeted enemy unit dies before they can be devoured. 2. The damage on Devour is kinda underwhelming already - there’s no need to nerf it. Look at Ornn and Mundo in comparison. If you really want to hit Support Kench’s oppressiveness, have the damage scale with champion level instead and raise the ability’s cooldown at earlier ranks. Everything else here is fine. Just some power shifts to make Tahm less of a get-out-of-jail-free card, including a revert (?) of his Q and a solid E buff.
> [{quoted}](name=Alzon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Pv0TOw1,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-04-19T01:32:00.865+0000) > > Looks pretty good, except for a couple things. > > 1. The partial refund on Devour’s mana cost and cooldown should be triggered even if the targeted enemy unit dies before they can be devoured. > > 2. The damage on Devour is kinda underwhelming already - there’s no need to nerf it. Look at Ornn and Mundo in comparison. If you really want to hit Support Kench’s oppressiveness, have the damage scale with champion level instead and raise the ability’s cooldown at earlier ranks. > > Everything else here is fine. Just some power shifts to make Tahm less of a get-out-of-jail-free card, including a revert (?) of his Q and a solid E buff. The nerfs far outweigh any buff to his E, and the cool-down increase on his Q combined with the damage nerf on his W effectively removes him from not only his support lane (for poke and engage) but also for top lane (vs. tanks and ranged opponents like Kayle and GP) and jungle (max HP damage vs monsters and enemy jungles). There is not enough they could do to keep this character even remotely viable and these changes will likely drop Kench to the lowest playrate and winrate in the game; which seems to be exactly where Riot wants him. It's really sad honestly. I feel for these Rakan players; but man they got off easy.
: Jesus Christ, just remove Tahm's ally Devour at this point.
Better yet, remove Tahm - because he's too good for this world and this game.
: Support role was always better than toplane/jungle role as tahm kench. No matter how much his fighter role gets buffed, it will still be less impactful than playing as a support. You just get outscaled late game trying to play as a fighter while support kench will always be useful in all stages of the game. Considering that his main support ability is almost useless , would he still be considered a support? Wasn't tahm kench's kit originally designed as a fighter/peeler. I don't get their design philosophy anymore. They are just changing him into a different champion with a different role.
> [{quoted}](name=XxoRazorBladeoxX,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Pv0TOw1,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-04-19T01:23:57.621+0000) > > Support role was always better than toplane/jungle role as tahm kench. No matter how much his fighter role gets buffed, it will still be less impactful than playing as a support. You just get outscaled late game trying to play as a fighter while support kench will always be useful in all stages of the game. > > Considering that his main support ability is almost useless , would he still be considered a support? Wasn't tahm kench's kit originally designed as a fighter/peeler. I don't get their design philosophy anymore. They are just changing him into a different champion with a different role. Honestly, if he has any viable role after this aside from poke mage, I'd be incredibly shocked, since that's a gutting to his Q, W and R
: Jesus Christ, just remove Tahm's ally Devour at this point.
Honestly, what the fuck Riot? Tahm Kench literally only sees pro-play now because of how shit tier of a support he is - now you're effectively gutting his Top and Jungle as well. This is actually outrageous. Rework the character if you're going to gut him, and take Vayne and Riven with him since 43% win rate is too damn high for you.
Rioter Comments
: So uh... that new Zed skin.
I always had a feeling that the ninja fucker half healthing me with a Q was some fuckboi who's father was a lawyer... thanks Riot. Never reveal Jhin's face please, I couldn't handle it if he was one too.
: We should take a second to appreciate the fact that League of Legends is free to play.
Very few things abuse a good Sylas player (not that you could tell a good one from a bad one because of how broken his basic kit is) but he is easily abusable by certain tanks - such as Tahm Kench and Ornn - at least in my experience. He honestly needs his mana gutted and if not his mana then his ability to trade so often AKA lower damage or higher cool-downs. Or better yet, all of the above.
Nęko (NA)
: We need a true creepy champion
{{champion:9}} Is a scarecrow with control over birds which literally rip his victims apart. {{champion:555}} Undead sailor who comes to murder people on the misty docks of a sunken city with no intentions other than revenge. {{champion:223}} A demon known for his beguiling nature and habit to devour people whole, delighting in their suffering. {{champion:412}} An undead apparition which finds pleasure in torturing the souls of his victims for eternity {{champion:161}} Probably into hentai and absorbs knowledge by deleting people from existence. To name a few already present.
: What champions do you associate with each class?
{{champion:111}} Controller {{champion:41}} Fighter {{champion:161}} Mage {{champion:21}} Marksman {{champion:555}} Slayer {{champion:223}} Tank
: Riot, you cant say damage is to high and then buff Yasuo's damage right after.
Those Tahm Kench nerfs and Lee Sin buffs... what are you guys smoking?
: Give Tahm Kench a new ult
Tahm's ult is pretty strong if you can use it successfully, and it's really his last ditch effort in a risky escape. I have M7 130000 pts. on Kench and can definitely see the desire to be more impactful on Kench as a support, but as far as Support Kench goes, he's practically not viable. You'd have better luck playing him Jungle or Top where he can duel someone one on one rather than getting insta-popped by high damage squishies in the botlane. Instead of changing his ult, they should tweak it. Maybe, instead of just popping up on the map with an ally in hand, his ult could knock up enemies within a certain radius of his exit point. Obviously nothing insane, maybe like a Maplhite Ult but smaller. It would make his ult feel much more impactful and give him a reason to charge into a fight and not save it as an escape or for solely mobility purposes.
Rioter Comments
Lumiose9 (NA)
: Skins For Forgotten Champions
Forgot someone {{champion:223}}
: Can we have skins for the rift?
Pretty sure you used to be able to manipulate the map's appearance by messing around in the files in the past, but you'd risk messing up your game drastically, so an actual option to choose a map skin would be great While were on the topic, let's consider: * Choice of Announcers * Choice of Skin Display on Profile * Choice of Displaying Rank And ect.
: Xerath Battle Boss skin?
{{champion:136}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:6}}: Current wishlist for boss skins, I guess Xerath is due for a skin too, though, but a lot of other champs could benefit from skins rn.
: Woad Scout Xayah
Xayah and Kench both need fur coats, Rito pls.
Cåracal (NA)
: 20 Nami Skin Concepts
That Predatory Nami is dope; please Rito.
: Personally I'm still praying for a Kench plushie
*Unfolds wallet; buys unnecessary amounts of Kench plushes.*
: Skin ideas in celebration of star wars. Dianna Vader and more.
Jabba should most definitely be Tahm; both enjoy food and lavish styles of living.
Rioter Comments
: PROJECT: Skins for 2018
Project Tahm Kench tho
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ToxicSquiid

Level 124 (NA)
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