: Please, I beg, stop allowing new champions in ranked.
the new morde has 56 percent winrate on the first day lmao so this is kinda invalid, at least for this situation
Hotarµ (NA)
: If you're talking about the Mystery Mini Icon, go to: Store > Accessories > Summoner Icons > "Mystery Mini Icon Box - Noxus" Sometimes the bundles were disappearing from the shop for some reason, so you might have to reopen it or purchase a standard mystery icon to make them reappear.
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=jacvWL9b,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-11T16:55:58.817+0000) > > If you're talking about the Mystery Mini Icon, go to: > > Store > Accessories > Summoner Icons > "Mystery Mini Icon Box - Noxus" > > Sometimes the bundles were disappearing from the shop for some reason, so you might have to reopen it or purchase a standard mystery icon to make them reappear. thank you thank you thank you
Rioter Comments
: Riot Zhanos destroying diana on purpose
She's marked as a fighter and is supposed to be in a subclass called "divers" like camille and irelia, but there's such a lack of AP bruiser items that making an ap bruiser, without going the route of sylas where he just heals and shields every other second, doesn't work. They want her to feel more combative than "assassinate-tive" but they don't have the right items to to do that.
Saezio (EUNE)
: I think the opposite should be done, where all champions should be valid picks in pro. But I don't trust riot to do that, so IDK where I stand really.
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ywVxhwRT,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-24T05:44:50.601+0000) > > I think the opposite should be done, where all champions should be valid picks in pro. > > But I don't trust riot to do that, so IDK where I stand really. were it so easy
: No what it says is one person can lose you a game, meanwhile one person can't solo carry. Two even ranked players play against each other. One loses hard, and tilts and begins to hard feed. Making it impossible for anyone else who is doing exceptionally well, to carry.
> [{quoted}](name=Lunar ArcS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=skBFsGbv,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-23T21:46:19.490+0000) > > No what it says is one person can lose you a game, meanwhile one person can't solo carry. > Two even ranked players play against each other. One loses hard, and tilts and begins to hard feed. Making it impossible for anyone else who is doing exceptionally well, to carry. Doesn't that kind of contradict what you're saying? "one person can't solo carry" though that person getting fed off of the weakest link on the team **is** solo carrying the game. When the bad player's on your team, you see it as "oh he's solo losing the game" but you don't see it as, "that player is better than him and will solo carry the game for the other team."
: Hi, Im a main and only Teemo player. This rework as it is will kill teemo ! and will make me delete the game. In my opinion: AA range should be incerased In Stleath mode teemo should not take any damage in bush R Shrooms should not be revealved by anything or should take longer to destroy W speed should be increased or should disable any CC With all those new busted champs Teemo is less and less viable. Riot please listen to Ipav !
> [{quoted}](name=666 peuXpeu 999,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Pu0ZGbkE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-22T08:27:10.978+0000) > > Hi, > Im a main and only Teemo player. > This rework as it is will kill teemo ! and will make me delete the game. > In my opinion: > AA range should be incerased > In Stleath mode teemo should not take any damage in bush > R Shrooms should not be revealved by anything or should take longer to destroy > W speed should be increased or should disable any CC > > With all those new busted champs Teemo is less and less viable. > Riot please listen to Ipav ! Lol I dont know if this is ironic or not
: and how will you prove it
> [{quoted}](name=letsfeedtogether,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uTmQOUEu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-20T10:35:21.107+0000) > > and how will you prove it Anyone that is high or drunk will tell you that they're high or drunk. They really like the attention.
: Do not want. I once accepted a group invite after a good ARAM game and for some reason accepted (I usually ignore these requests). I forgot that chat for groups had gone live. The people in the group weren't particularly toxic toward teammates but they were not the sort of people I would normally want to chat with in my day to day life. Hearing their voices was somehow incredibly intrusive and distracting compared to regular chat in game. Even with my own friends IRL that I sometimes play with I prefer not to be in chat with them. I just concentrate better without talking or listening to others.
> [{quoted}](name=Mr Dalloway,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LPUQVLVH,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-19T22:18:45.007+0000) > > Do not want. I once accepted a group invite after a good ARAM game and for some reason accepted (I usually ignore these requests). I forgot that chat for groups had gone live. The people in the group weren't particularly toxic toward teammates but they were not the sort of people I would normally want to chat with in my day to day life. Hearing their voices was somehow incredibly intrusive and distracting compared to regular chat in game. > > Even with my own friends IRL that I sometimes play with I prefer not to be in chat with them. I just concentrate better without talking or listening to others. I work the same way, but you can always mute them since OP proposed a mute person/people voice chat option. If it helps other people play their best, I'm all for it, but I'm not going to down something just because it doesn't directly benefit me as an individual.
Nice Try (NA)
: Thank you for the memories Riot Games Im sorry i couldnt improve and be less toxic. (Please Read)
thats why we need an irrevocable mute self button that allows people to mute themselves for the rest of the game.
Rioter Comments
Kruton (NA)
: For support, it's a huge nerf. For top lane, not bad.
https://u.gg/lol/champions/tahmkench/build/ Currently tahm kench is now +4 percent increase top lane winrate and +3 in support from 9.8. Just goes to show that the most liked comment isn't always the most correct, or at least on league boards.
Dyromic (EUNE)
: Some of your points are valid but not all. Women are more willing to play with female champions for some reason or another, that's clear. But you seem to ignore the fact even females prefer the oversexualised, beautiful comic book characters over real diversity. Illaoi and Taliyah have been around for almost 3 years or more now but never actually got into spotlight, or at least that's what I experienced. I get to play with quite a few girls throughout the years (since s4) but not a single one of them ever picked either of the beforementioned characters like, ever? They were mostly supports too and when not, they played midlane or top with champions like Ahri, Lux, Zoe Fiora, Diana or even Lulu. We can argue female players lack diversity in champion pool, but that completely ignores the fact the majority of female players are indeed support mains who prefer bubbly, easy-going, beautiful female characters over someone like Illaoi or Taliyah.
> [{quoted}](name=Dyromic,realm=EUNE,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=W30TX4wE,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-04-27T13:07:02.401+0000) > > Some of your points are valid but not all. > > Women are more willing to play with female champions for some reason or another, that's clear. But you seem to ignore the fact even females prefer the oversexualised, beautiful comic book characters over real diversity. > > Illaoi and Taliyah have been around for almost 3 years or more now but never actually got into spotlight, or at least that's what I experienced. I get to play with quite a few girls throughout the years (since s4) but not a single one of them ever picked either of the beforementioned characters like, ever? They were mostly supports too and when not, they played midlane or top with champions like Ahri, Lux, Zoe Fiora, Diana or even Lulu. > > We can argue female players lack diversity in champion pool, but that completely ignores the fact the majority of female players are indeed support mains who prefer bubbly, easy-going, beautiful female characters over someone like Illaoi or Taliyah. I agree with your points, but you're using bad examples. The reason illaoi isn't used is because she's an immobile juggernaut, and her entire playstyle revolves around you walking towards her. She's strong in the laning phase but has almost 0 team fight potential unlike darius' hard cc that's able to physically pull people towards him and his team and force flashes. All illaoi does is pull a ghost that takes reduced damage and slows the target for a few seconds. Taliyah, on the other hand, for some time she was mediocre in solo queue, but strong and overused in proplay, so she was "adjusted." Then she was overused in the jungle in both solo queue and proplay. Then she was nerfed into the ground and returned to being a little worse than how she originally was made. Another thing is that taliyah is a bit hard to play. She's in the top 8 champions for highest mastery curves (see here: https://twitter.com/RiotBlaustoise/status/1075515580570980352), mostly because the majority of her core skills are skill shots and her ultimate isn't a combat ult and requires team coordination or is sometimes used as an escape mechanic. So her difficulty makes her a bit unappealing to some people.
: Article 13 at it's finest...
> [{quoted}](name=PlatinumWolfZ,realm=EUNE,application-id=EBBIvmVK,discussion-id=XnQHiqRf,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-04-23T05:06:42.741+0000) > > Article 13 at it's finest... this has been around before article thirteen believe it or not. In fact, this goes back to when they were doing "secondary reviews" that were promised to take a month but ended up being almost a full year. Many content creators have been hit by it and it usually hits content creators that aren't uploading their own work. Youtube has made a statement saying even if you own the rights to upload it, if it's still on another source such as twitch or dailymotion, then it's unmonetizeable. Many compilation channels have been hit due to this, but I find it strange that his channel is the only one being hit, because synapse, fun of legends, etc are doing the same thing, so it doesn't really make much sense, but again, this has been around for a while.
: What did Kayle rework accomplish ?
she actually had the second highest winrate toplane for games at 21 minutes and in 9.6 she never leaves top 3 check here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcb7WScjN_g. People that think she's "unplayable" before level 11 are either biased and want buffs or don't really know how to play the champion.
Rioter Comments
SnupRawr (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=SLX Raigus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=sTZbZpyu,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-17T22:11:12.245+0000) > > how to get carried? How to get carried: 1. Spam your mid to pick yasuo 2. play riven, vayne or teemo top 3. Do nothing under turret until yasuo lvl 6 4. GG you have a 70% chance of winning game
> [{quoted}](name=SnupRawr,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=sTZbZpyu,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-04-17T22:25:46.709+0000) > > How to get carried: > > 1. Spam your mid to pick yasuo > 2. play riven, vayne or teemo top > 3. Do nothing under turret until yasuo lvl 6 > 4. GG you have a 70% chance of winning game you forgot play ivern and camp a lane for 3 minutes while the other jungler has to farm
: Riot ruined smurfing in Season 9 and it's killing games for both smurfs and non-smurfs
youll still get plat mmr I think, but you wont get the plat ranks. SO people smurfing just for the rank tag won't receive it and they play in the same elo in which their skill level is in. Thats why many times you'll see posts on the boards asking "why is this silver 3 player in my gold 1 promos?"
: I support this, there will always be high honor players who are surprisingly toxic once in awhile but nobody can control that. Only real problem is this might be seen as an "unfair advantage" for being honorable....which is kind of funny.
> [{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nNkyYEn7,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-15T01:32:48.040+0000) > > I support this, there will always be high honor players who are surprisingly toxic once in awhile but nobody can control that. > > Only real problem is this might be seen as an "unfair advantage" for being honorable....which is kind of funny. well technically dishonorable players are at a disadvantage whenever they're chat restricted.
: wtf, you _are_ the support.
> [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=OyGVJnhk,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-04-14T23:19:52.584+0000) > > wtf, you _are_ the support. what are those downvotes. My god has the boards gone to shit with these downvote/upvote bots.
iTaLenTZ (EUW)
: Its the teams support not your support
> [{quoted}](name=iTaLenTZ,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=OyGVJnhk,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-04-14T23:07:23.835+0000) > > Its the teams support not your support you're trying to argue semantics, usually when anyone says "My support" in this game, they're using the INCLUSIVE version of "my."
abca98 (EUW)
: Next time Riot tells you how difficult identifying a bot account is, show them this screenshot.
: What champion do you think represent the game the most
: CAN U NERF KAYLE?
they are nerfing her
Rioter Comments
: The toxicity of this community astounds me.
Before you entire a game hit that /mute all. Especially in ranked games. I do it alot. It helps.
AIQ (NA)
: Champions like {{champion:103}} {{champion:28}} and {{champion:21}} make me feel like I'd get an STD if I walked by them. When Eve says "You know you want me" after selecting her, I'm like no I don't like used cars that are run into the ground. Ahri is definitely in this boat. Just a basic sex icon, nothing special. Edit: People have made it very clear that Eve is likely a virgin I did not know that still I just meant the type of person they all represent. Skanky, sex driven, seducing, thots. I get that Riot wrote her that way as a curve ball, but lets be serious. If this champion existed in real life, do you honestly think she'd remain a virgin long and not try it a few times? lol
> [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ig6VVEa5,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-10T15:58:32.243+0000) > > Champions like {{champion:103}} {{champion:28}} and {{champion:21}} make me feel like I'd get an STD if I walked by them. When Eve says "You know you want me" after selecting her, I'm like no I don't like used cars that are run into the ground. Ahri is definitely in this boat. Just a basic sex icon, nothing special. > > Edit: People have made it very clear that Eve is a virgin I did not know that still I just meant the type of person they all represent. Skanky, sex driven, seducing, thots. > I get that Riot wrote her that way as a curve ball, but lets be serious. If this champion existed in real life, do you honestly think she'd remain a virgin long and not try it a few times? lol I was about to reply that evelyn is actually a virgin, but it seems like everyone and their mom's already replied that :(
Ladrac (EUNE)
: Another Morgana nerf?
Not saying that riot doesn't need to prioritize other champs, but morgana is a pretty uninteractive champ that counters alot of champs just with her black shield. She's been strong for some time. I'd like to see maybe a change or rework for her so her entire kit and being isn't being balanced around black shield.
BTheM (EUW)
: As Ivern main I have to explain how my abilites works almost every game
I'm happy that he started to be picked up more by alot of people during the jungle exp nerfs so now alot more people know what he does. But yeah, I think they need to make his Q "pull" indicator more sensible to people that don't know what he does.
: Except she's NOT hitting those marks. She has a 44% Win rate among players with more than 200 games on her. In other worse, her skill gap is INVERSED. Early game champ structure is heavily sabotaged in low elo, where your team doesn't do things with you. Her Play rate is high because they sexualized her, not because she's in demand. Her Ban rate is purely because she semi counters the meta champs we think are overpowered, like Pyke, Zyra, Draven, Zed, Blitz, and they want a free reign of the game. Her OVERALL win rate after the W buff was 51%. "Absurdly High." (Looks at {{champion:238}} {{champion:121}} , who both have 55-57% overall, positive skill curves, and don't fall off)
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OOopG2XL,comment-id=0017000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T17:50:57.240+0000) > > Except she's NOT hitting those marks. > > She has a 44% Win rate among players with more than 200 games on her. In other worse, her skill gap is INVERSED. > Early game champ structure is heavily sabotaged in low elo, where your team doesn't do things with you. > Her Play rate is high because they sexualized her, not because she's in demand. > Her Ban rate is purely because she semi counters the meta champs we think are overpowered, like Pyke, Zyra, Draven, Zed, Blitz, and they want a free reign of the game. > Her OVERALL win rate after the W buff was 51%. "Absurdly High." (Looks at {{champion:238}} {{champion:121}} , who both have 55-57% overall, positive skill curves, and don't fall off) ? > She has a 44% Win rate among players with more than 200 games on her. In other worse, her skill gap is INVERSED. 1) Where do you see a 44 percent winrate with players with 200 games? I hope this stat isn't from champion.gg. It's been proven countless amount of times to be innacurate due to it drawing data both from ranked and normals. Even if this isn't accurate. It would make sense. The champion isn't very skill expressive. Root, shield, free spell thief's proc with pool and ult into the enemy team with zhonyas. If this graph is representing climbing, the easier and simple champ is, the stronger it is in lower elos due to it allowing the player to focus more on macroplay than micro. See amumu for reference: silver: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/silver/champion/Amumu/Jungle/ diamond: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/diamond/plus/champion/Amumu/Jungle/ The more skill expressive a champion is, usually the stronger they are in higher elo because they can do much more. This isn't in anyway saying that morgana is weak in high elo, because she isn't, you can check the stats, but there are many who will try to play or one trick morgana to higher elos and then play badly due to her skill ceiling not being as high as other high elo champs. > Early game champ structure is heavily sabotaged in low elo, where your team doesn't do things with you. 2) Yes, usually early game champs are weaker in lower elos because they don't know how to close out a game. But morgana in no way follows this trend. Her position is silver is currently rated as the second best support: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/silver/champion/Morgana/Support/ so please tell me how that's relevant? > Her Play rate is high because they sexualized her, not because she's in demand. 3) Her play rate was already high before they reworked her. Check patch 9.4 https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/9.4/diamond/plus/champion/Morgana/Support/ along with her already high playrate she was ranked 1o/40 as one of the best supports. You're forgetting that along with the rework, riot wanted to make her less reliant on zhonyas so they buffed her ultimate. Hence the increase of playrate and winrate and banrate. Not because "they sexualized her." Omegalul. Another reason for her power is also due to the increase of kayle's power. Whenever Kayle is strong, morgana compliments that. It almost works just like the lore. This is because how well kayle's ultimate and mrogana's black shield work togther. Kayle can make herself or an ally free from damage but still cc-able, and morgana can make someone free from abilities and CC but still damageable. What happens when you combine these two? Well usually if you can't damage someone, you cc them, if you can't cc someone, such as olaf during his ultimate, you burst him down before he can kill you. But if you're both unCC-able and undamageable, there isn't anything the enemy team can do. This has nothing to do with "how sexy" a champ is, especially in ranked. This might be true in normals, but in ranked people are focused on winning. That's just a bias you hold. To give more evidence to my claim, the jungler ranked 1/50 in this current patch is reksai https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/9.7/diamond/plus/champion/RekSai/Jungle/ . And as you know, that's not a very "sexy" champ. Both are getting nerfed next patch > Her Ban rate is purely because she semi counters the meta champs we think are overpowered, like Pyke, Zyra, Draven, Zed, Blitz, and they want a free reign of the game. 4) Very few of those champs listed I consider to be "meta," but this is due to how her black shield works correct? If this was the case. then her banrate should have been the same pre-rework. The only thing they buffed on morgana was her pool and I think a part of her ultimate or how it works, which in no way is a semi counter or direct counter to any champions listed. A +4 percent playrate increase shouldn't result in a +30 percent banrate no matter how strong morgana's counterpart, kayle, is. And to imply that without morgana those champs would have free reign is a bit laughable. I'll admit draven, zed and blitz are all annoying, but they're most definitely counter-able by other champions, such as thresh, maokai, leona, etc. > Her OVERALL win rate after the W buff was 51%. "Absurdly High." (Looks at {{champion:238}} {{champion:121}} , who both have 55-57% overall, positive skill curves, and don't fall off) I agree that both khazix and zed are troublesome and they will get their time soon. In fact, zed's getting nerfed next patch as well, but the difference between this trio is that both zed and khazix are much more skill expressive and interactive than morgana so that's mostly why. Sad to see a champion you like nerfed, I know but she's been super strong for a while and it's a very deserved nerf.
: Have you bothered to interpret WHY? Oh right. Early game Q's and E's enabling adcs. Look at the direction of her wins over the duration of a game, and by players with 200+ games on her. She's one of the only champions whose win rate actually gets WORSE the more you play her, and the longer a game goes, that is a mage.
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OOopG2XL,comment-id=00170000,timestamp=2019-04-10T02:50:15.904+0000) > > Have you bothered to interpret WHY? > > Oh right. Early game Q's and E's enabling adcs. Look at the direction of her wins over the duration of a game, and by players with 200+ games on her. She's one of the only champions whose win rate actually gets WORSE the more you play her, and the longer a game goes, that is a mage. Yes I have interpreted why, but regardless of how you interpret it, the results are still the same. The winrate and banrate is high along with her pickrate. The reason for it doesn't contest why she's being nerfed. Regardless if you're a late game or early game champ, if you're hitting all those marks, usually the balance team will do some sort of change, whether it be a nerf or an adjust.
: Why is Morgana mid getting gutted? Why?
It could also be because she's a strong support https://u.gg/lol/champions/morgana/build/ look at her numbers.
kuzzy47 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=IvernGreenFather,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3FNBAqAP,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2019-04-09T20:40:57.657+0000) > > You're not the only one. There have been many complaints and her ban rate is high. They're nerfing her next patch so no need to worry. Wasn't she nerfed already or you mean more? Her power does feel it comes from lvls than from items.
> [{quoted}](name=kuzzy47,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3FNBAqAP,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2019-04-09T23:56:06.766+0000) > > Wasn't she nerfed already or you mean more? > Her power does feel it comes from lvls than from items. another nerf. She's way too strong. I think they should take that true damage away and make it armor and magic pen instead for level 16
: Feelings about Kayle
You're not the only one. There have been many complaints and her ban rate is high. They're nerfing her next patch so no need to worry.
: After ARURF league just plays too slow for me now.
Yes that's the main reason why they removed it. Because alot of people quit after it because it makes summoner's rift feel sluggish and boring.
: Just got a Silver 4-1 Duo in my Gold 3 ranked game.
Not to try to discredit you, but what's up with the 12 game losing streak? You gotta relax mate. As stupid as it sounds, sometimes you just need a deep breath.
Kalikain (NA)
: A moderator that cannot be named.
does his name start with a "J?" If so, that was one of the main reason I started using reddit more.
: Because “fun had” is a subjective measure. For every person that doesn’t have fun playing against x champion, there’s another that does. Likewise, for every matchup that isn’t fun for one champion, there’s another that goes the exact opposite way for another. While this is a game, which are supposed to be fun, this is also a competition. You can’t put too much stake in balancing for subjectivity, as that won’t actually balance anything. All it does is enforce bias. The fact that you believe this: > I really felt this when the Rioter posted the stats with champion nameplates off asking the community for balance choices. It'd be very sad day if that's actually how they think the game should be balanced. Champion nameplates should be on. Some champions are inherently more problematic and require more immediate attention, even with lower win rates. Demonstrates that you don’t have the right mindset to be balancing anything. Balance is just that: balance. You don’t use personal bias to nerf something just because you don’t like it. > Stop trying to "argue" with the community. You know the stats and game better than us. If doing what you're currently doing is making the game better (increasing # of players). Then go right ahead. Ignore the boards/reddit/streamers. But if it's actually hurting the game - then maybe try and change something up? And that’s precisly what they’re doing: trying to improve the game. The point of showing those blind statistics is to *educate* the player base, not to argue with them. It’s to help them understand in some aspect what balancing a game as complex as league actually entails. > You are game designers. You should understand things at a deeper level. Balance to make the game as fun as possible. Are you not doing the same thing, except this time *without* the knowledge and skills of a game designer? All you are looking at is superficial aspects of “ban rates” or “fun”, ignoring if things are actually strong or weak. Balance is to make things *balanced*. Sure, in some cases that may be what’s most fun. Other times it won’t be. If I’m playing Nautilus or Ashe against an Olaf, it feels like shit. But I know Olaf is designed like that *in order* to make those champs feel like shit. It’s what countering means. If I pick a carry top or an ADC like Kalista or Lucian, Olaf becomes much less of a pain point.
> [{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t2q356dT,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-07T15:40:18.567+0000) > > Because “fun had” is a subjective measure. > > For every person that doesn’t have fun playing against x champion, there’s another that does. Likewise, for every matchup that isn’t fun for one champion, there’s another that goes the exact opposite way for another. > > While this is a game, which are supposed to be fun, this is also a competition. You can’t put too much stake in balancing for subjectivity, as that won’t actually balance anything. All it does is enforce bias. > > The fact that you believe this: > > Demonstrates that you don’t have the right mindset to be balancing anything. Balance is just that: balance. You don’t use personal bias to nerf something just because you don’t like it. > > And that’s precisly what they’re doing: trying to improve the game. The point of showing those blind statistics is to *educate* the player base, not to argue with them. It’s to help them understand in some aspect what balancing a game as complex as league actually entails. > > Are you not doing the same thing, except this time *without* the knowledge and skills of a game designer? All you are looking at is superficial aspects of “ban rates” or “fun”, ignoring if things are actually strong or weak. > > Balance is to make things *balanced*. Sure, in some cases that may be what’s most fun. Other times it won’t be. If I’m playing Nautilus or Ashe against an Olaf, it feels like shit. But I know Olaf is designed like that *in order* to make those champs feel like shit. It’s what countering means. If I pick a carry top or an ADC like Kalista or Lucian, Olaf becomes much less of a pain point. I disagree. While "fun had" is subjective, you can find that as quantitative data through banrate or dodge rate when they are picked. Also > "While this is a game, which are supposed to be fun, this is also a competition. You can’t put too much stake in balancing for subjectivity, as that won’t actually balance anything. All it does is enforce bias." Isn't exactly true. Many champions will be banned for their frustration to improve the quality of the game. Remember when both irelia and akali had sub 44 percent winrates and were still receiving nerfs just because of their banrate (yes even in high elo they were performing poorly)? They weren't winning games, but the shroud mechanic and irelia's ability to dash almost infinitely coupled with her cc and unique cc (disarmed) in team fights were greatly disliked. I agree that he's wrong in saying "the nameplates should be on" but I'd like to address the > > "Are you not doing the same thing, except this time without the knowledge and skills of a game designer? All you are looking at is superficial aspects of “ban rates” or “fun”, ignoring if things are actually strong or weak." I'd say it's wrong to try to discredit the argument because he's not a game designer. Many times when looking at if a champion needs nerfs or not, all you really need are the statistics and riot's balance philosophy or examples of what's been nerfed in the past for what reason. Usually those things will be (I'll try to use recent situations) a high winrate and high banrate: Kayle high winrate with a high playrate: (on hit) neeko above Average winrate on a high banrate champ that's supposed to be hard to play champ or mechanically intensive: Yasuo (after conqueror rework) And there are more, such as: being seen to much in proplay (ryze), slightly below average winrate but an extremely high playrate (ezreal), etc. but these are the main three. And if a champion fits this category or more, players do have the right to question why they're receiving different treatment.
: Because most tank item abusers haven't been ranged. The most recent tank item abuse (Barring champion-specific abuse, which is a special case) I can think of was tank Ekko/Fizz/Yasuo, none of which are ranged. The reason that there aren't more ranged/melee splits is because, for the most part, items *can* be balanced around both, simply because there's not many ADCs or mages that really want to delve into defenses more than necessary, because otherwise they lose too much damage. The only hard and fast ones have been those rare instances where an item was inherently broken on the unintended class - hydras on ranged, for instance - or where it gives an effect Riot does *not* want to let ranged (or melee) champions have because it'd just be a case of the former.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GOAWlkZd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-04T12:51:32.396+0000) > > Because most tank item abusers haven't been ranged. > > The most recent tank item abuse (Barring champion-specific abuse, which is a special case) I can think of was tank Ekko/Fizz/Yasuo, none of which are ranged. > > The reason that there aren't more ranged/melee splits is because, for the most part, items *can* be balanced around both, simply because there's not many ADCs or mages that really want to delve into defenses more than necessary, because otherwise they lose too much damage. The only hard and fast ones have been those rare instances where an item was inherently broken on the unintended class - hydras on ranged, for instance - or where it gives an effect Riot does *not* want to let ranged (or melee) champions have because it'd just be a case of the former. The only ranged tank item abuse is by kogmaw building mallet, urgot (but he's a juggernaut anyways) ezreal and viktor with iceborn.
: because new skins are never available right off the bat of a new update riot usually adds them in either later in the day (if you are lucky) or within 2-3 days after the patch drops (with a week being the max due to some bug)
> [{quoted}](name=MordridtheBlack,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=oa8XcA3F,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-03T12:05:30.440+0000) > > because new skins are never available right off the bat of a new update > > riot usually adds them in either later in the day (if you are lucky) or within 2-3 days after the patch drops (with a week being the max due to some bug) Thanks for the info friend, but now I'm sad.
Rioter Comments
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Anime Fizz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UV6c4V9Y,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-04-01T22:54:23.902+0000) > > And 2% ban rate. > I don't understand this argument, a lot of champions with 0% ban rate got nerfed in the past : -Ivern -Janna -Jhin -Corki >she like nami/sona are champs that dont break the game when they are strong (and the later 2 have been very strong for years too btw yet nobody talks about nami 54% wr 18% pick rate). Bad example, they both got nerfed Nami got a single nerf Sona was olafed 3 patches in a row last year > > when lucian is meta almost every other adc becomes unplayable Lol nice one He has sub 50% win rate in pro, in high elo and in plat+ Jinx has a higher win rate than him + destroy him match up stat wise If lucian makes everyone unplayable why does he have 48% win rate and 21% pick rate? Jinx has 3 less pick rate but has fucking 55% win rate omegalul If every adc is unplayable because of lucian how comes ezreal MF draven vayne kai'sa cait Jinx are playable? the only unplayable adcs are garbage adcs, not because of lucian being meta. even fucking sivir has 53% win rate and 10% pick rate, how is lucian making her unplayable
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UV6c4V9Y,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-04-01T23:04:53.437+0000) > > I don't understand this argument, a lot of champions with 0% ban rate got nerfed in the past : > -Ivern > -Janna > -Jhin > -Corki > > Bad example, they both got nerfed > Nami got a single nerf > Sona was olafed 3 patches in a row last year > > Lol nice one > He has sub 50% win rate in pro, in high elo > and in plat+ Jinx has a higher win rate than him + destroy him match up stat wise > If lucian makes everyone unplayable why does he have 48% win rate and 21% pick rate? > > Jinx has 3 less pick rate but has fucking 55% win rate omegalul > If every adc is unplayable because of lucian how comes ezreal MF draven vayne kai'sa cait Jinx are playable? > the only unplayable adcs are garbage adcs, not because of lucian being meta. > > even fucking sivir has 53% win rate and 10% pick rate, how is lucian making her unplayable don't forget aurelion sol
: No joke, when is Urgot seriously gonna get nerfed?
they're nerfing him next patch actually. In just 2 days. You can see all nerfs and considering nerfs at surrender at 20. http://www.surrenderat20.net/
CytheGuy (NA)
: Kayle is dominating lanes right now for ONE REASON
Kleptomancy is an offender but to say that's the "one reason" would be kinda funny. If you check her rune paths on u.gg you can see that while yes, kleptomancy is her main go-to rune, she's just as strong with most of everything in the precision tree and grasp of the undying https://u.gg/lol/champions/kayle/runes She's just a strong champion in general. The reason why she seemed as if she was doing bad when she first came out was because, that's exactly what it was, she first came out. Everyone was still learning how to play her and many people were banning her just because she was a newly reworked champion so it was harder to learn to play her in the first few weeks. Along with the "quality of life buffs" they did that took away her cast time for her abilities she's just absurdly broken on this patch and is another true damage offender that wards off tanks and the meaning of building resistances in the game. True damage by itself really isn't bad concept if you use it sparingly but kayle's AOE true damage RANGED waves at level 16, unless she's a champion that gets one shot just by a single basic attack in the laning phase, she's going to be problematic regardless. I think they can and should definitely change the way she works with kleptomancy, but that will only fix some of her problems. Her main problems includes that she just scales too well without a punishable early game (she currently has no counters, as in she has a positive winrate against every champ in the game, including early game champions. She even COUNTERS RENEKTON AND ILLAOI champs that are supposed to be early game lane bullies that prevent scaling https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Kayle/Top/) and another thing that people don't realize that makes her good is alot of times she escapes skillshots aimed at her just because of the way her character model's floating works. The way the angle of the camera is makes it seem as if she's in one place but her actual model will be a tad more to the right. Another thing that makes her really strong is just the fact that she has the ability to prevent herself from being bursted with a shield that makes her invincible for a short period of time. So that wards off potential weaknesses in trying to assassinate her. To be honest, I find it funny that a carry champ would/should even have an ability that prevents damage entirely. Xayah's is more reasonable because it makes her untargetable but it doesn't have the second part in which it also does damage and she can still be killed in her untargetablility with DOT skills. Kayle completely But yeah I hope this champ gets what she deserves.
: Back in season 4 you could use strategies to counter a champ, not just items. A 100 to 0 Zed? No problem, pick a team comp with strong shielding and play around 2 carriers, and wait until late game. I remember back then QSS even cleansed Zed’s ult. Also, with more vision, you can play safer and avoid ganks.
> [{quoted}](name=YG TheyWorshipMe,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=e1B9maEa,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2019-03-31T03:29:05.927+0000) > > Back in season 4 you could use strategies to counter a champ, not just items. A 100 to 0 Zed? No problem, pick a team comp with strong shielding and play around 2 carriers, and wait until late game. I remember back then QSS even cleansed Zed’s ult. so the entire picking order changes around 1 champion choice? That's seems a bit excessive. I see why they allow the buying of items as counterplay. I heard that zed was a problem back in the day but I didn't think it was that bad. The game's evolved to allow more agency and less dependency. I'm not saying all the changes they made were/are good but you're assuming that this game is or was as strategic as you're implying on a solo queue level. Many times in solo queue, people will either pick a champion that they're good at or just one trick entirely. The scenario you've given sounds like something from proplay but not from the solo queue ladder where players are only a conglomerate and act on their own. Secondly, Believe it or not, there are still "strategies" in this game including champion counters. If someone picks zed, you can pick lissandra without having to do anything drastic, but that option isn't available for those that either A) pick before zed or B) Don't have lissandra and this goes for every other counter/countered by champ. BUT If the counterplay for a champion ends in champion select, then that champion playstyle and game experience on the receiving is unhealthy. If the game required a single player to rely on a 4 other players they've never met or 3 other players they've never met (depending on if they're duoing) to pick around that one champion choice, it would be a bit more stressful wouldn't you agree? I can understand if you have nostalgic feeling about the old league, but the way you're describing it doesn't sound very optimal or even better than the current state league is in. Edit: Just to clear when I say picking order I'm not speaking chronologically, I'm referring to the stat of the champion select.
: Some of my thoughts about League of Legends after more than 6 years of playing.
remove stopwatch? What would be the counterplay to zed ultimate at early levels? Seeker's armguard by itself doesn't save you from his 100-0 combo.
: > [{quoted}](name=IvernGreenFather,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEhpLgZt,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-30T02:10:21.380+0000) > > LMAO!!!! I find it hilarious that I state that these champs CAN be played in certain roles but they are less viable because riot consciously tries to make them so in other lanes because that would lower the champion pool and then you post stats only verifying what I say. **The fact that they have over a 40 percent winrate in other lanes means they win 4/10 times in a role they "aren't supposed to be in."** Do you not see the problem? In a role they are supposed to be in, they're supposed to win 5/10 times. If you're losing only 1 more time in an off role.. do I need to go on? You're asking for an adc to be up to par on the same level as they are in their main element? _Your blind favoritism for the adc class is showing._ > "ignoring asol top, soraka top and mid" > I'll agree maybe the examples I gave weren't as good as I thought. I'll give you that one, but if you look at the statistics for soraka top and khazix top, you see they win around 4/10 times in their off role. My main point was that adc's aren't the only champions that have only a specific role they do well in and then the other they're mediocre and this only strengthens the analogy. I was wrong about aurelion sol though. I'll break this down Barney style for you, since reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong suit. Champions are DESIGNED with a single lane in mind for them. Darius goes top, Syndra goes mid, Udyr goes in the jungle, Caitlyn goes bot, Soraka goes support. Hence, they have terrible win rates when put in lanes they don't belong in. So why is it, that when Riot gutted bot lane out of nowhere and said, "Good luck against mages nerds" everyone called ADC's babies and told them to quit bitching? When Viktor was being played top, top mains cried and bitched about it until Riot gutted him. When Taliyah was being played jungle, jungle mains cried and bitched about it until Riot gutted Taliyah. Let's say you're a top main and Riot decided to nerf every bruiser and every bruiser item, completely out of nowhere, and told you top lane is where supports go now. Would you just accept it and play Sona top? Or would you be on the boards crying about how Riot is full of terrible dev's, and everyone who works there must be braindead? > > "The Earth is the center of the universe, Pluto is a planet," I find it funny that you talk about a strawman fallacy and then make an unequivocal one. We're talking about champs stats and performance that can be found out just by the press of the button on multiple sites all available to us, while these scenarios are the result of the lack of technology to find information. Almost the complete invert of the topic. Again, reading comprehension. "Here's a tip, usually the more you hear something or the more someone shares the same opinion or philosophy as another, USUALLY the higher the likelihood of it being true." Just because you're a sheep, doesn't mean we all are. Some of us have more than 2 or 3 brain cells and the ability to think for ourselves. > > And okay let's say that its because of the jinx buffs that she was doing fine. I'll give two more Sivir: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/9.2/platinum/plus/champion/Sivir/ADC/ and kaisa: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/9.2/platinum/plus/champion/Kaisa/ADC/ also before you say "wait kaisa's winrate is only around a 50 percent not over a 50 percent" look at the playrate. Sivir will always have a decent win and play rate, merely because of the fact she's a super simple ADC to learn and play. Kai'sa was actually better off before the crit item (half) revert. She relied on the Stormrazor power spike, and built a mix of on-hit and AP > > "quinn isn't an adc." She's an auto based ranged damage carry. That's usually what classifies someone as an adc. Just because she's used to bully melee champions top lane, it doesn't discredit this. > Quinn is NOT an ADC. Quinn is an assassin.
> [{quoted}](name=SovereignMammal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEhpLgZt,comment-id=00040000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-03-30T02:52:33.378+0000) > > I'll break this down Barney style for you, since reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong suit. Champions are DESIGNED with a single lane in mind for them. Darius goes top, Syndra goes mid, Udyr goes in the jungle, Caitlyn goes bot, Soraka goes support. Hence, they have terrible win rates when put in lanes they don't belong in. So why is it, that when Riot gutted bot lane out of nowhere and said, "Good luck against mages nerds" everyone called ADC's babies and told them to quit bitching? When Viktor was being played top, top mains cried and bitched about it until Riot gutted him. When Taliyah was being played jungle, jungle mains cried and bitched about it until Riot gutted Taliyah. Let's say you're a top main and Riot decided to nerf every bruiser and every bruiser item, completely out of nowhere, and told you top lane is where supports go now. Would you just accept it and play Sona top? Or would you be on the boards crying about how Riot is full of terrible dev's, and everyone who works there must be braindead? > > Again, reading comprehension. "Here's a tip, usually the more you hear something or the more someone shares the same opinion or philosophy as another, USUALLY the higher the likelihood of it being true." Just because you're a sheep, doesn't mean we all are. Some of us have more than 2 or 3 brain cells and the ability to think for ourselves. > > Sivir will always have a decent win and play rate, merely because of the fact she's a super simple ADC to learn and play. > Kai'sa was actually better off before the crit item (half) revert. She relied on the Stormrazor power spike, and built a mix of on-hit and AP > > Quinn is NOT an ADC. Quinn is an assassin. I stopped at the first sentence. "I'll break this down Barney style for you, since reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong suit." This is no longer a worthwhile conversation and your tone has moved from an attempt at being informative to just condescending. Enjoy the rest of your day.
: > [{quoted}](name=IvernGreenFather,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEhpLgZt,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-29T23:32:45.172+0000) > > So you're saying that 1) ADCs were still being played bot lane when they're considered bad and 2) assuming you viewed my links, that even though you acknowledge that their winrates and playrates were still high before the item reworks that you still consider them to be trash?!?!? Interesting. > Jinx got 3 straight buffs after 8.11 before the crit item (half) revert. Like I said in my previous comment, Draven wasn't hit as hard as other ADC's by the 8.11 changes, simply because he isn't crit dependent. > Secondly let me stop you there. Many adcs CAN be played in different positions, it's just that many adc mains enjoy the safety of having a personal bodyguard that will sacrifice themselves to save them and usually benefits the most from the support's vision control. The main ones you will see being flexed will be Lucian, ezreal, mf (I won't add corki considering that mid lane is his main lane) can all go mid. Vayne, Lucian, quinn can all go top lane. Kaisa, quinn, twitch, can all go jungle. Again those are the main ones. Someone playing kaisa could go top if they wanted to. Someone playing varus could go mid if they wanted to, the reason they don't is because of how much more safe bot lane as a role is. Thirdly, riot consciously tries to limit how strong adcs are by themselves. This is a class that has un-dodgeable auto attacks that scales to be able to three-shot or two-shot enemies. If adc's were more flexible than how they already are, there would be an already smaller champion viablity pool. It's already hell for melee champs whenever they're put against ranged top laners such as jayce, quinn, vayne, teemo, urgot, kayle because not only do they either shutdown or brick their laning phase by punishing them whenever they try to farm, but they're much more viable later on in the game due to how their item scales and playstyle of kiting. > Quinn isn't an ADC, nice strawman. Twitch jungle only works in low elo due to terrible vision control and lack of map awareness. Ezreal mid: https://u.gg/lol/champions/ezreal/build/?role=middle Varus mid: https://u.gg/lol/champions/varus/build/?role=middle MF mid: https://u.gg/lol/champions/missfortune/build/?role=middle I'll give you Lucian, he has the mobility to play mid and top > > Fourthly, Yes there are SOME adc's that can only be played in the bot lane, but this isn't a class exclusive thing. There are more champions than adc's that can only be flexed into one position. Darius, aurelion sol, garen, ivern, reksai, soraka, the majority of the support roster, amumu, kha'zix etc. The difference between the adc's and other champs is that when they're considered to be "bad," they don't get seen at all, but whenever adc's are considered to be bad, they're still played bot lane because of how reliable their auto attack damage and scaling is and also because as you say"people just don't want to stop playing them because they've played them for so long lmao okay." > MOST ADC's can only be played bot lane, with the exception of Lucian and Vayne. So you're going to cite Ezreal, MF, and Varus mid as "viable" picks they can be flexed into but completely ignore A Sol top, Soraka top and mid, and Kha'Zix top? Your ignorance and blind hate of ADC's is showing. "The difference between the adc's and other champs is that when they're considered to be "bad," they don't get seen at all" So when Darius is bad, Darius mains don't play him? When Ivern is bad, Ivern mains don't play him? It's the same shit in bot lane. If Tristana is bad a Tristana main isnt going to just say "Well Trist is bad, time to become a Swain main" No. That person is going to continue to play Tristana, because that's who they enjoy playing. > PS Another thing is I see you started your reply with "I'm sick of people propagating this flat out lie." I'm guessing you hear these points regularly. Here's a tip, usually the more you hear something or the more someone shares the same opinion or philosophy as another, USUALLY the higher the likelihood of it being true. Not always, but you should definitely consider it. > The Earth is the center of the universe, Pluto is a planet, and ADC's were never bad
LMAO!!!! I find it hilarious that I state that these champs CAN be played in certain roles but they are less viable because riot consciously tries to make them so in other lanes because that would lower the champion pool and then you post stats only verifying what I say. **The fact that they have over a 40 percent winrate in other lanes means they win 4/10 times in a role they "aren't supposed to be in."** Do you not see the problem? In a role they are supposed to be in, they're supposed to win 5/10 times. If you're losing only 1 more time in an off role.. do I need to go on? You're asking for an adc to be up to par on the same level as they are in their main element? _Your blind favoritism for the adc class is showing._ "quinn isn't an adc." She's an auto based ranged damage carry. That's usually what classifies someone as an adc. Just because she's used to bully melee champions top lane, it doesn't discredit this. "ignoring asol top, soraka top and mid" I'll agree maybe the examples I gave weren't as good as I thought. I'll give you that one, but if you look at the statistics for soraka top and khazix top, you see they win around 4/10 times in their off role. My main point was that adc's aren't the only champions that have only a specific role they do well in and then the other they're mediocre and this only strengthens the analogy. I was wrong about aurelion sol though. "The Earth is the center of the universe, Pluto is a planet," I find it funny that you talk about a strawman fallacy and then make an unequivocal one. We're talking about champs stats and performance that can be found out just by the press of the button on multiple sites all available to us, while these scenarios are the result of the lack of technology to find information. Almost the complete invert of the topic. And okay let's say that its because of the jinx buffs that she was doing fine. I'll give two more Sivir: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/9.2/platinum/plus/champion/Sivir/ADC/ and kaisa: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/9.2/platinum/plus/champion/Kaisa/ADC/ also before you say "wait kaisa's winrate is only around a 50 percent not over a 50 percent" look at the playrate. EDIT: I accidentally replied to myself below. lmao
: I'm sick of people propagating this flat out lie. ADC's remained in bot lane because that's the only lane most ADC's can actually be played. It had nothing to do with them still being viable picks. With the exception of Lucian, Ezreal, and MF ADC's were trash tier champions. Picking a crit ADC was basically shooting yourself in the foot. You were forced into buying that stupid fucking Stormrazor so you had even the smallest iota of surviving early and mid game, and games were over before you could finish your core crit items. ADC's were complete trash. Most of them still are too be honest. There are some exceptions e.g. Jinx, Vayne, and Draven. The first two are MASSIVELY overtuned right now, and Draven will always be strong, due to the fact he really just scales off raw ad. The only reason ADC's are "meta" in bot is because people who have played ADC all these years don't want to give up the champions they love. If they were able to be played LITERALLY ANYWHERE ELSE I guarantee we would have a lot more diversity in bot lane.
> [{quoted}](name=SovereignMammal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEhpLgZt,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-29T22:04:13.798+0000) > > I'm sick of people propagating this flat out lie. ADC's remained in bot lane because that's the only lane most ADC's can actually be played. It had nothing to do with them still being viable picks. > > With the exception of Lucian, Ezreal, and MF ADC's were trash tier champions. Picking a crit ADC was basically shooting yourself in the foot. You were forced into buying that stupid fucking Stormrazor so you had even the smallest iota of surviving early and mid game, and games were over before you could finish your core crit items. > > ADC's were complete trash. Most of them still are too be honest. There are some exceptions e.g. Jinx, Vayne, and Draven. The first two are MASSIVELY overtuned right now, and Draven will always be strong, due to the fact he really just scales off raw ad. > > The only reason ADC's are "meta" in bot is because people who have played ADC all these years don't want to give up the champions they love. If they were able to be played LITERALLY ANYWHERE ELSE I guarantee we would have a lot more diversity in bot lane. So you're saying that 1) ADCs were still being played bot lane when they're considered bad and 2) assuming you viewed my links, that even though you acknowledge that their winrates and playrates were still high before the item reworks that you still consider them to be trash?!?!? Interesting. Secondly let me stop you there. Many adcs CAN be played in different positions, it's just that many adc mains enjoy the safety of having a personal bodyguard that will sacrifice themselves to save them and usually benefits the most from the support's vision control. The main ones you will see being flexed will be Lucian, ezreal, mf (I won't add corki considering that mid lane is his main lane) can all go mid. Vayne, Lucian, quinn can all go top lane. Kaisa, quinn, twitch, can all go jungle. Again those are the main ones. Someone playing kaisa could go top if they wanted to. Someone playing varus could go mid if they wanted to, the reason they don't is because of how much more safe bot lane as a role is. Thirdly, riot consciously tries to limit how strong adcs are by themselves. This is a class that has un-dodgeable auto attacks that scales to be able to three-shot or two-shot enemies. If adc's were more flexible than how they already are, there would be an already smaller champion viablity pool. It's already hell for melee champs whenever they're put against ranged top laners such as jayce, quinn, vayne, teemo, urgot, kayle because not only do they either shutdown or brick their laning phase by punishing them whenever they try to farm, but they're much more viable later on in the game due to how their item scales and playstyle of kiting. Fourthly, Yes there are SOME adc's that can only be played in the bot lane, but this isn't a class exclusive thing. There are more champions than adc's that can only be flexed into one position. Darius, aurelion sol, garen, ivern, reksai, soraka, the majority of the support roster, amumu, kha'zix etc. The difference between the adc's and other champs is that when they're considered to be "bad," they don't get seen at all, but whenever adc's are considered to be bad, they're still played bot lane because of how reliable their auto attack damage and scaling is and also because as you say"people just don't want to stop playing them because they've played them for so long lmao okay." PS Another thing is I see you started your reply with "I'm sick of people propagating this flat out lie." I'm guessing you hear these points regularly. Here's a tip, usually the more you hear something or the more someone shares the same opinion or philosophy as another, USUALLY the higher the likelihood of it being true. Not always, but you should definitely consider it. Edit: present-tense to past tense words
: Feels like everyone forgets that Neeko can disguise as other champions
People usually aren't fooled by it is why. Unless you're playing normals or at a really low elo, many times people can guess just by the pace of the game and through vision on the map which champions are which at almost any given time.
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Tree in a Bush

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