Rioter Comments
Rodnii (NA)
: This is great! Don't let them "ignore" this situation. Notice how on the last Poppy post they changed the topic to {{champion:34}} and only responded to comments about her. They know they screwed up.
Which discussion we talking here?
: Poppy is getting buffed slightly. They reverted some changes and gave her 5 extra move speed. RIOT is working on her, but does not want to make her OP. Hopefully after the next couple patches she will be better. They did buff her E range too.
> [{quoted}](name=webstar1108,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=exp7dQuO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-16T14:41:23.184+0000) > > Poppy is getting buffed slightly. They reverted some changes and gave her 5 extra move speed. RIOT is working on her, but does not want to make her OP. Hopefully after the next couple patches she will be better. They did buff her E range too. *MUNDO GOING WHERE HE PLEASES NOISES* I mean, if Poppy is such a threat where any buff needs to be supplemented with nerfs then i don't know how they could have messed up so bad there
: Why the Poppy "changes" were not strictly nerfs in a nutshell
Well you seem to still be missing what I was trying to say, so I'm starting to regret counter arguing with you to begin with. My issue, from the very beginning, is how Poppy is a perfect example of Riot's poor system of balancing. My issue is that Riot took one of the worst champs top lane and, no matter how hard we want to argue about what specific change is a nerf or a buff, killed her even harder. Champs who are nearly in an unplayable state don't need "neutral balance changes", especially not when those changes irrefutably drop them even harder. Riot dropped the ball here as they have dozens of times over, and they have proven time and time again that they are not improving. They are not listening to their playerbase and they are not taking responsibility for their mistakes. This is why i am mad, this is why there are so many others that are very harshly criticizing them.
Pika Fox (NA)
: Poppy still operates well as a hard counter support into certain matchups. This will always be the case as long as she has her W, and thus she is not dead.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=exp7dQuO,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-05-16T17:17:18.415+0000) > > Poppy still operates well as a hard counter support into certain matchups. This will always be the case as long as she has her W, and thus she is not dead. I don't think it's healthy nor should it be encouraged to have any champion only played as a hard counter. In a perfect world each champ can be played in several instances while being stronger in some and weaker in others with variation in those regards. I know it would be stupid to ask Riot for perfection with that, but it needs to be better than it is now. Poppy specifically is so fundamentally weak she can't even carry vs her counters and is only even playable in very specific circumstances. If you pick Poppy into Riven or GP right now, those kinds of champs are so strong that even if you win lane they will contribute so much more to the rest of the game that you did yourself a disservice by picking Poppy (top). Same with Irelia, Mundo, hell Garen now, ect. Their kits, numbers and their items offer so much more to the game that even if they are counter picked from a technical standpoint, they will still carry the game with their raw strengths as long as they don't turbofeed.
: Tanks are literally unplayable, its not a Poppy issue. They've dramatically shifted power into carries/bruisers that unless you get that lucky tank vs tank match up or a jg willing to camp you, tanks are not playable. You're literally inting by picking one.
I'm certainly noticing this, only a few tanks seem to be able to hold their own up there right now. It's like they've been slowly power creeped out of their main lane ever since runes got reworked. This honestly doesn't feel like a good thing, since it's GP/Camille/Irelia domination up there and it's not like those champs or champs like them are in anyway more fun to handle than tanks. That on top of how when Riot actually decides to look at selective tanks they are so hit and miss with their balance it's painful. In one patch they fumbled Poppy to an embarrassing degree while making the absolute mistake that is Mundo. (Now I don't actually hate Mundo and I'm sure players appreciate him being playable, but it seems pretty obvious that having that ballostats that strong is an issue) If this is their approach to balance top lane then maybe I should just be in the jg more lol.
: This post is steaming with ignorance. You should be disappointed in yourself as a League player who mains a champion. What we saw in the changes were a trade: taking away some of her ballostats, and giving her improved mechanics, which I like to refer to as swagger. And, to top it off, now you got your movespeed back, which you completely failed to mention. Let me sum up the buffs first, since you seem to think that there are none, which is so god damn far from the truth. Edit: You wanna talk Poppy? Let's talk Poppy. Increased wallbang range. If I had a dollar for every time Poppy missed her wallbang on me by 30 units, sheerly because I flexed SO hard to dodge it, I would be a very rich man. I'm definitely going to tilt a little the next time a Poppy lands a bullshit Heroic Charge on me. That's power in your hands now you god damn fool. The net range on this bs is literally equivalent to a Caitlyn auto attacking with a goddamn Rapid Firecannon in her inventory. And you have the nerve to shrug off this important buff, AND shit talk Riot when they give this swagger to you. Increased passive range. Poppy has an incredible, extremely powerful passive when used properly. Once you have just a bami's cinder, maybe a giant's belt too, your buckler gives you an enormous shield. You can now last hit from an even safer distance, which is actually exactly equal to Vladimir's auto attack range, for effing reference. This isn't MASSIVE because the shield doesnt land 30 degrees closer to you or anything, but the ability as a whole is VERY powerful and it's usabability, or swagger, WAS increased. Increased ultimate speed. Now this one, was big. It was already really fast, and, sound familiar?, this is a very powerful ability in the right hands. Before, it was fast, and now, it strikes like lightning. Literally among THE fastest, AND widest skillshots in the game after the 25% increase in speed. Now, a player with a brain should literally never miss it. A main like yourself might even land this teamfight turning ability at its max range of..... wait, am I reading this right.... 1900 units............ The ultimate's knockup "change". This one I'm going to say is a buff. 25% less CC time, but now Yasuo can effing ult onto it. Brand can W. Vlad can E. Ori can ult it. Mf can ult it. Anything dude. Gp barrels. Sivir Q. Graves Q. Alistar could knock them up even further. The list LITERALLY does not end. Every single game you play, there will be an opportunity for your team to use this change to your advantage, but here you are, the Poppy main, shitposting about how these changes were a "strict nerf". --------------- Ok. now let's look at the nerfs! You can tank 10% less damage on what is already one of the single tankiest champs in the game .......................................Yep, thats fucking it. Oh wait actually, your movespeed also went from godly whatthefuck to just really, rreally fast. For reference, 30% movespeed is what phase rush would grant at, what level? Level 11. Yep. That shit was strong as hell, and really.. Still is. And I just realized that it only even affects you from level 14-18. --------------- Before I flame you for talking shit about the balance team (as a fucking Poppy MAIN bro), let's take a look at WHY these buffs to swag and nerfs to ballofstats hurt her winrate. What is the play rate of this champ on champion.gg, aka the bible for people who think one site can sum up the true balance of a champ? 1%. Meaning if you go out and play 100 games, roughly 50 HOURS of gameplay, you will see a Poppy in top lane 1 time. Hm....... Now, did you stop to take a look at the average # of games played for those 1 players in 100 games? Bet you fucking didn't. I'll fill you in. It's 4. Meaning that, on average, when those extremely rare players pick Poppy, it's their 4th time playing her in rank. That puts her at 39/48th for least mained champion currently, ahead of a couple guys like Garen and Mundo who are being played bc buffs. So when a champ gets a buff to playability but a nerf to her raw stats, I'm not at all shocked that her winrate dropped 3%. -------------- What is "absolute insanity" is that a Poppy MAIN failed to see ALL the good in these changes. This post was "honestly" not a discussion, but a shit post from a player who does not even love this game for what it really is. I can tell this because you completely overlooked a lot of buffs to Poppy's actual gameplay. Your attempt at a "discussion" fell flat on its face, as you were completely biased and looked at the changes through the lense of "my gameplay would be better if Poppy got buffed". You also put a lot more words and time into shittalking the balance team, who has granted us playability to a VERY solid champ pool in EACH lane, instead of talking real shit about how the 10% less armor and mr could possibly affect your gameplay, or about how now your W won't enable you to catch up to....... Wait a sec, dude, who tf can actually outwalk a 30% bonus ms at the press of a button which also stops their dashes from functioning? Back to what I was saying. YOU should be the one ashamed of yourself for FAILING to recognize what kind of power Riot handed to you as a MAIN of a champion. This post is actually what's embarrassing. ----------------- Lastly, I want to mention that Poppy has been strictly buffed (in the literal sense. Not in your twisted sense of what is a strict buff or nerf.) since season 6 until right now. Meaning Poppy has only grown stronger, and stronger, and stronger, since she was being SPAMMED in pro play, which we ALL remember. Lastly, as a tip to you, and I'd like to reference to your comment about how Poppy is not oppresive when fed. I played a game as Mid into an enemy Poppy top who did really well, probably thanks to her excellent laning game. She assassinated the fuck out of me with Trinity Force Duskblade, a build which is almost ENTIRELY untouched by these changes. 10% of all that 0 bonus armor and mr (in exchange for ABSOLUTELY no excuse to mess up your E with this build). Just build HP and abuse that broken passive dude.
Hey guys I think I found the Rioter who lost to Poppy But for real though, your bias to hate this champion is showing a lot harder than my bias for her to do good. Let me correct you on some points. The E range, as previously mentioned, is a buff increase to the engagement range and NOT the push range (though I am of the mind to believe there is a hidden value that makes you push targets slightly farther if you target them from farther away, but that's moot unless it's official). You went on to mention having to dodge the ability, well then congratulations, you should be happy to know her E is worse off now than it was before. The discussion from experienced Poppy players, myself included, agrees that the strength of her E lies in positioning, not it's raw range. YOU as the player need to either set up or punish the circumstance that allows you to use your E consistently, and the increase in range does not make up for how the rest of the changes to her kit make doing that more difficult. Positioning, or lack thereof, is most likely why these changes where nowhere near neutral and gutted her (again) Of course it's not all bad, her passive is a straight up buff. This would be appreciated if she wasnt made a worse champion overall with these changes. Let me explain, since I bet you think her ultimate change is a complete buff. 8.9 took away more options for positioning than it gave (didn't give any really). Being able to use your W for positioning was extremely important in every stage of the game, having the active MS lowered at all ranks hurt her ability to do that at, well, all ranks. It is now more difficult to position for your E in lane, period. 50 range grants less opportunities than a good active MS, which is what Poppy mains are saying but players like you ignoring. (not to mention how valuable her W MS was for chasing and locking down some of the more disgusting mobility champs) Then we have her W. Aside from the MS loss, she lost 5-15% bonus resistances depending of the circumstances. That is A LOT. That seriously affects how she will do in every stage of the game. She's easier to poke, she's easier to burst and she has less staying power in teamfights, which is where she is supposed to EXCEL. She looses even harder to her brutally strong counterpicks with no real compensation at all. 50 range on your passive? Ya I am sure Darius cares lol Then her ultimate, which is a fantastic opportunity to also examine how disconnected and stubborn Riot is about some things. The exact same thing is happening here, it takes more than it gives. For example, Poppy used to be able snapcast near a wall and reposition herself using her W in order to set up a pin. Now unless you are willing to blow flash the window to pull off this kind of play has been greatly diminished, since Poppy is stuck in her snapcast animation for a majority of the knockup on top of having no MS to follow up with anything. The knockup itself is now garbage. Like not just garbage, hilariously pathetic for what is supposed to be an "ultimate". Now it is essentially a worse Chogath Q with no slow and a two minute cooldown, wow. And I can hear you getting riled up to retaliate with the target-ability, but that's also garbage. A 0.75s melee range knockup as an ULTIMATE that also roots the caster is just plain insulting. Any bonus chain CC potential is lost to that small window, especially when you could CC chain her ultimate before anyway. Previously, champs hit by the snapcast where still stunned just for a moment when they hit the ground. This allowed Poppy (and her team if they knew what they where doing) to guarantee a followup, especially Poppy if she positioned well. On top of that, there is so much more technicalities that occur now that the targetability has changed. Is it better for them to be targetable? Yes, but it also presents new opportunities for both the enemy and their team, so much that in no way is the knockup reduction justifiable given the champs current strength. Targets can now be healed, swallowed, made invulnerable and absorbed. There is a lot that can now contend with the damage your team will be putting out, so it's a wonder why they thought a champ this weak deserved nerfs to compensate for a change that was by no means powerful to begin with. And that honestly is the core issue, which is also the whole point of the initial post (that you so willfully ignored). These changes would have been fine if she was say, 10th and dropped down to 16th. The issue is that Riot looked at this champion who was in clear dire need of raw buffs and decided she needed an adjustment instead. That, on top of the fact that her adjustments where so poor she dropped 6 places in the spot that's hardest to drop in. You try to hold the Average Games as some sort of smoking gun for your argument when it honestly just proves you wrong. Her playrate has gone up by 0.04 percent, so basically nothing. Her Average Games top? Hasn't changed. It is literally static this patch. This means that the same people who have always played her have kept playing her the same amount and we still see this massive drop in winrate. A drop that has so much more impact being at the very bottom of the roster. Like seriously, look at the raw numbers. 40th to 46th, out of 48 total. How can anyone seriously look at that and say "well you SHOULD appreciate the silver lining" No, we shouldn't. We should see this for what it is. Riot took one of the worst champions at their role and turned them into one of the worst champions in the game. The only role that improved was JG, which hardly matters since she doesn't come anywhere near even touching the powerhouses that are in there now and (at least for me) is just sanctuary since she just cannot be played anywhere else. Treating a champion this way is insulting to their playerbase, even more so since Riot has admitted that 8.9 was the direction Poppy's VGU designer wanted her to go. This just tells us Riot actively chose to ignore the players last patch and this patch in favor of one person, which lead to changes that fundamentally made the champion weaker when they where already in a horribly weak position. This is supposed to be a competitive game, and if this is Riot's method of balancing then they have failed to meet expectations, simple as that. Yes I know I am being mean, but this is all true and it's not my fault if it hurts. To take a struggling champion, ignore your entire playerbase in favor of one person, and then try so pathetically to save face and not take responsibility for this absolute failure on their part is also a disservice to the players, the ones who keep this game alive. Yes I know she's getting five MS back, and I'm pissed about it. This kind of drop means a revert, not this paltry crust that they've thrown at our feed. What a joke. Oh and just for closure, Poppy was not strictly buffed season six. 6.24 saw her shied duration lowered from 5 to 3 seconds, and her snapcast damage cut straight in half. She was also primarily so strong because of how strong Courage was when she was reworked. When she was gutted other tanks simple took her place and where just as oppressive, leaving her wrongfully blamed. To call her passive broken now is hilarious, because there are 45 other champions who look at her in lane and just laugh. She can't even be good at what she's meant to be good at. Honestly, what does Poppy do that Ornn can't just do better? Oh but that broken passive tho lol, totally just abuse that dude. Oh and by the way using the word "probably" during an argument usually doesn't help you. In this case though, you where probably in unranked, or your top laner was probably so garbage that you where always going to lose. Seriously, you're actually trying to argue that carry Poppy is a thing because one time a Duskblade Poppy stomped you in game and that item isn't changed this patch? If that is how you argue that these changes are justified or just not ouright nerfs, then maybe I just wasted all my time typing this out.
: Some riot player probably lost against a poppy.
> [{quoted}](name=VeganScout,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pzyzsrEx,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-15T20:28:01.665+0000) > > Some riot player probably lost against a poppy. You honestly have to assume this is the case. How can you even look at a champ that was doing as badly as she was and go "well we think she needs some adjustments, but we want to keep her "power neutral" and then proceed to make those changes and call THAT an adjustment
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Tremaursen

Level 81 (NA)
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