: Players that are not listening to shotcalls should be banned
"Teamwork is a group of people doing what I say." "I'd gladly group up but nobody else is following me."
Totenau (EUW)
: Need to Vent
Poor objective prioritization is very common. I play mostly with a small group of friends and even we struggle with it, despite being on comms together all the time. I will frequently reward somebody with "good shotcalling" for suggesting we get an objective when the getting is good. All you can really do is ping the objectives, maybe try to split push when your team won't stop chasing kills, and find a group of like-minded friends who will prioritize objectives more rationally.
: I understand the design philosophy behind Pyke was an Assassin Support
On the micro-level, I can see the strength of your arguments against. On the macro-level, I think I see a stronger need to experiment and broaden the definition of "support". You have enchanter supports, which are hard to balance and often toxic whenever they're strong enough to lane alone. You have tank supports, which never really get to be full tanks; they're just supplemental CC that's a little harder to kill (and right now, maybe not even that.) You have mages with a little utility getting played as supports. In the recent past, it's the latter that have dominated the meta. The first two are self-limiting and the third is maybe just a degenerate property that emerges from the nature of bot lane. I can understand why they'd want to find different ways to fulfill the support ROLE without resorting to the traditional and slightly broken support FUNCTIONS. (Broken in the sense that they don't work as intended; not in the sense that they're overpowered.) Maybe it can't be done in a healthy way but I don't fault them for trying.
Jaspers (EUW)
: I think there are also people who want her to remain support viable, let's hope whatever they do it stays to the nature of the champ, unlike Aatrox. If anything anyone planning to rework a champ should play nothing but that champ first, get to know them, hang out (anonymously) in fan pages etc. The decide on the direction.
I'm definitely in that camp. I love to play oddball champs in the support role. That included pre-rework Galio and Urgot, once or twice with pre-rework Aatrox, and recently with Skarner. I especially like Kayle in bot lane because she can actually serve either as a fighty support or as a utility-heavy adc. I really hope they preserve that duality.
iiGazeii (NA)
: Can we talk about Jhin's Traps?
"This post is not about the balance of the ability or Jhin as a whole, but..." You can't really approach the possibility of a buff without at least thinking about power budgets. Jhin seems to be in a pretty good place right now and I've never known him to be weak. He happens to be down to 49.5% in 9.1 but he's been consistently been above 50% for a while. Shifting his power budget to the traps means making something else weaker. I don't think that taking damage away from his W would be a meaningful nerf. Do you tune down his grenade or AA's to make the traps better?
: Toxicity and why I will look for fun elsewhere
I'm sorry that you had such a rough experience last night. If you decide to give League another try, you can come play with me and my friends. We're extremely relaxed and usually strive to be overtly positive.
: Pretty good cinematic. But does anyone see the common theme in each scene?
Male vs. Female, you mean, with the exception of Kennen. Even if it weren't intentional, I still think it's an interesting observation. Now what I'd really like to see? Illaoi, Neeko, and Taliyah beating up Singed, Teemo, and Twitch. Powerful, nonconformist women taking down (literally) toxic masculinity.
: I figured out why league sucks
This is one reason why I hate the early surrender culture.
: Champion remodel : morgana
I have to say, I'm looking forward to this. Sinful Succulence Morgana has good splash art but the model is so dated.
Dr Dog (NA)
: true that wouldnt exactly be ezreal tier, but it sucks having her as feast or famine because i do love her kit her passive just ruins the entire champion for me
No argument here. I understand the desire to have minigames for some champions - Skarner's spires, Fiora's pressure points, Vayne's silver bolts, to name a few. I don't think the mark system is well implemented for Kindred, though. Other champs' minigames feel small-scale and tactical. You execute them well, consistently, and get a power boost. If somebody outplays you or you make a mistake, you might lose that interaction but you can still win the next one. Kindred's minigame is large-scale and strategic. Either they succeed at it and become OP, with no tactical counterplay, or they get strategically outplayed (denied stacks) and lose relevancy regardless of good tactical play.
Dr Dog (NA)
: honesty a better passive, her current one fits her theme ya but they could give her a much better hunter-type passive if the looked into it and her abilitys as a whole need more wolf in them as it just feels like lamb is the champion when it should be both. and her current passive is just too dependent on her getting those first 4 stacks making her too feast or famine, if i were to rework it id definitely just have every champion have a once consumable mark from the start with the rest of that marks being on camps like they are now along with reducing the bonuses got as you'd be getting more stacks as a whole from a change like this
I agree with this but it seems to me that changes of these magnitude would push them beyond a very light rework, as "Ezreal tier" suggests to me. Making it clear that they're Wolf & Lamb and not just Lamb - that alone would take more than a minor rework, IMO.
: Who's on your list for an Ezreal tier revamp?
{{champion:4}} His E needs an active ability, even if it's something small, and his W could use some fine tuning. I'd like the card cycling to be more predictable (always start on the same card and put the Gold card last in the cycle to compensate.)
Saezio (EUNE)
: All you can do is ignore (mute if you like) report in the end game screen and _maybe_ send a ticket about it. Also next time you see your support roaming level 1, you should ask "Hey mate, what's the plan? Can I help?" maybe that nami indeed had a plan in mind but it failed miserably and then they proceeded to feed out of frustration. I understand you are 100% in the right and they are 100% in the wrong, however you can always try to accommodate your lane partner in order to keep them in good spirits. You don't _have_ to do this but it sometimes helps, especially when the other player is not toxic at heart but just frustrated maybe because in their last 3 games they had someone do exactly that to them. Keeping a cool head in the worst of situations can be quite beneficial to you as well, one day you will have kids (or not if you don't want to no judgement just go along for the example) and you will have to live in the same house as them, and they _will_ do stupid senseless things, you can see toxic players as training for that or other situations where you need to coexist with non-cooperative people.
"Maybe that Nami indeed had a plan in mind but it failed miserably and then they proceeded to feed out of frustration." Although I don't think that was likely the case in this specific instance, there's another similar behavior that I'd like to point out. The person who thinks their plan is good and will try harder and harder to implement it, despite the mounting evidence that it's not working. They're not even feeding out of frustration. They're so convinced that they know what they're doing that the tryhard and die until the enemy team has an almost insurmountable advantage.
Ilovemobas (EUNE)
: Who is your favourite non-meta champion
{{champion:61}} - I'm not really sure if Oriana is meta or not. I don't see her a lot but has she _ever_ fallen out of the meta? I think she waxes and wanes in popularity but I think she's always reliable. If not Oriana, then maybe {{champion:72}}. I've played him as support recently and it's not bad. His ratios are mediocre, so you can just build him tanky and count on his CC. He's good for helping out at dragon and he can easily take a scuttle crab all by himself.
Wfury (NA)
: Dear Riot: I want a Pentasisst
Penta-cyst. Literally cancer.
Khabith (NA)
: Can we all just stop copying each other? It's getting kinda sad
Can we all just stop copying each other? It's getting kinda sad
: Yep this new champion aka Sylas is totaly not broken especially his ultimate and his W
I actually don't think that Sylas's ult is going to be broken. Let's suppose that ALL it does is take the mechanism of the stolen ult, no additional scaling or anything. 1. Sylas might not have the right numbers to make particularly good use of it. 2. The Sylas player will never have a reliable ult of his own. He will constantly be trying to figure out what he can do with whatever he can nab _that game_. That's both a high burden of knowledge and a high cognitive load on the Sylas player.
: How to tell good Pyke players from bad ones
I suggested to my friend who plays Pyke that he making a binding to say in all chat, "X gon' give it to ya".
: Biscuit delivery on poppy as supp?
I love to supp on poppyseed biscuits.
: Or we just could rework binary crit ADCs like Tristana or Vayne into more ability-focused ADCs, like Ezreal or Lucian. The problems are that there's no real counterplay to crit ADCs, AND that they're most reliable/riskless class when it comes to dealing damage.
Is it crit focus or AA focus that's the problem? I agree that a heavier emphasis on abilities would be good all around. There's an aspect of that idea that I can't quite figure out, though. AP, by definition, only affects (some) abilities and not AA's. AD, by definition affects both (some) abilities and also AA's. If the goal is to make more champs like Ezreal or Lucian, is the idea basically to make AD-scaling mages who, because they use AD instead of AP, also have particularly good AA's? Is there room for even a couple of champions who have heavy reliance on AA's with less powerful kits? I'd say that Jhin also falls into that category and he's pretty good right now. But what about Graves and Corki? I think they fit that description and I don't see much of them these days. What about Ashe? Getting rid of crit-reliant marksmen wouldn't suddenly make her work in this meta. (I'm not saying that your idea is a bad one; I like it a lot. I'm just not sure that it would solve "the problem" of marksmen struggling to be relevant right now.)
GigglesO (NA)
: None of the adc mains are going to upvote you. They won’t admit that adcs need to be a team class because of how stat checking happens when they have the same or better numbers. Adcs are just a giant stat check of ranged+ damage.
I play quite a bit of adc and I agree with this. IMO, the big problem right now is that the two team elements that most facilitate adc success, enchanters and tanks, are both in a rough place, which leaves adcs in a rough place. The other factor I've observed is that the shortening of games seems to be deliberate, while adcs thrive in longer games. I'm not sure what the solution is. Reducing the cost of adc items a little bit could help but there could also be unintended consequences, such as letting them get their first-item power spike too early. (Maybe the tapering power, relative to other champs, that they experience until their third item would make a slightly earlier power spike okay?) Edit: Maybe one or the other. Empowering tanks and enchanters again could naturally lead to longer games without any other intervention.
: Or buff tanks and enchanters back to former glory so they can be viable enough to soak the damage. Also remove Conqueror and true damage on items. Introduce healthier mechanics like health% magic damage or health% physical damage in their place if necessary. People forget how much tanks being out of the meta increases the probability of squshier targets getting dove and how much damage enchanters can prevent when they do. Before Enchanters got nerfed, they actually countered mages like Brand. Now nothing counters Brand except other mages and Support Mages always countered Support Tanks.
I think the last time we had a healthy, tank-centric meta was 2015. I really enjoyed that season. There seemed to be a fair amount of diversity in all lanes and games were won by smart, coordinated play. If tanks and enchanters were brought back into line with other classes, either by buffing them or nerfing the others, would we get back to that state? Closer, anyway. I think it's a little easier to bypass a front line now than it was then. Perhaps if the tanks are empowered to actually _tank_, that would be enough. _How_ to bring tanks and enchanters back into line with other classes? I don't know. Both suffer from similar problems, IMO. Either other classes can make better use of the tools that they're given to do their jobs; or their kits are overtuned and they don't feel fair. It's a problem that I've seen in a lot of games. How do you properly balance "denial" options? Tanks say "No, you can't kill me" and enchanters say "No, you can't kill my friends". Strong defenses like that are perceived as negative to other players' experience and probably don't make great e-sports viewing.
: Exactly. Her kit has nothing defensive or support like besides her shield. Meanwhile champs like Nami have support abilities all over their kit including their passives. Common sense people. -.-
IMO, "support" doesn't mean defense, shields, buffs, or anything strictly related to enhancing an ally directly. To me, it just means sufficiently high base numbers and sufficient utility of any kind (including CC) that the champion can operate with minimal itemization early in the game. Therefore, you can have an offensive champion in the support role.
Sukishoo (NA)
: Lux, Morgana, Mal, Karma and so many others are Mages first, but they've all ended up in Support more often these days due to nerfs and reworks just kind of forcing them there. So, blame Riot, not the people calling them what they call them.
Why even talk about "blame". The metagame is an emergent feature resulting from innumerable complex interactions. I've seen Annie go from mid to support and back twice now. Morgana migrated from mid to support. Quinn found her place top and then jungle. Victor migrated from mid to top. Swain went from mid to top and back again. Sion and Ziggs moonlight in bot lane. None of these things are right or wrong. They're just people taking things where they happen to work at the time. Enchanters aren't great in the current meta, so you see less of Janna and Soraka and more of Zyra and Brand. They work on a limited early-game budget, so they can play in the support role. It's just a thing that's happened. Maybe the meta will evolve again and enchanters will be better picks. Maybe they'll become less relevant and be forgotten for a while; that's happened to other champs and it's not the end of the world. Maybe Riot will revise the 'enchanter' archetype into something that can be relevant again. But none of these changes is strictly good or bad; they're just different ways that the game can evolve. Some people will always like whatever's current in the metagame and others won't. I personally play a lot of enchanters and AA-based marksmen, so I'm not very comfortable right now. But I'm adapting and that's okay.
: Discussion on Context and Objectivity
When two kids are caught fighting at school, both get detention. It doesn't matter who started it; if you're caught throwing punches, you're in trouble. The purpose of that form of punishment is to teach the kids that fighting at school won't be tolerated. Objectivity: you were caught being toxic Context: somebody else was being toxic too We know that a single report will trigger review of somebody's chat logs. If player A gets reported and player B does not but both were being toxic, does the review of player A's log also implicate player B and add to their behavioral record? Could it? Riot's policy generally allows one a few free passes, so it wouldn't necessarily result in simultaneous punishment. Perhaps people would be more comfortable with their punishments if they knew that the other guilty parties were definitely implicated as well. Having said that, there nonetheless seems to be a prevailing attitude that toxicity is okay, in context. Where does this come from? We don't allow kids to fight in schools and we don't endorse adults publicly saying horrible things to one another. And that, I think, is a key reason why I strongly favor objectivity. From a recent poll I posted, the average LoL player is a young adult. A young _adult_. And yet we daily see arguments from people who think that schoolyard fighting is acceptable, so long as one doesn't throw the first punch. As a decidedly established adult (37), I'm glad to see Riot punishing this kind of behavior and not allowing the juvenile excuse of, "He started it".
: The Hardest Gameplay Decision in League
{{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} Oh wait... You're serious... {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
: 8-2 iron 1 really riot? hahahah
I haven't done my placements yet this preseason. Two seasons ago, however, I went 0-10 and still placed into Silver IV. I don't understand their algorithms at all.
: Is Riot's pricing fair?
I find myself more concerned about BE costs. I've been playing for six years. Last month, for the first time, a champion that was released during the time I've been playing (Thresh) got an IP/BE price reduction.
XD haha (OCE)
: To Those Who Abuse Pings
> ! - does not mean "you cannot fight this person leave now!" If I am engaging on a fight that meant I have cased that person to the best of my abilities and even if I fail it's a learning experience for future games, I don't need random pings in the middle of a fight to make me pause my combo and think "what did I miss" just because you thought I might have missed something. The ! ping should be used to signal "ACTUAL" danger, like unseen enemies, or "Look at your map right now there is an enemy there" I generally agree with this but the one situation where I will use it to mean something like, "You can't win this fight; leave now" is when there is a pre-fight dance happening and my teammate has pinged for help (esp. if it's my help that's implied.) I'll use the ! ping to signal that I'm not coming and they should back off.
BradNo (NA)
: This doesn't apply to all adcs. You're talking like this is the golden rule when it's not. And going even is that bad. As long as you have a good support, you can do good mid game.
It's a generalization, yes, and there are exceptions to it. From what I've seen, Miss Fortune, Lucian, and Jhin, for example, all do okay. Most of the AA-focused adc's, however -- Ashe, Jinx, Caitlyn, for example, are struggling through the mid-game. That's not necessarily a problem, except the pace of the entire game has generally accelerated recently, meaning that many games are decided relatively early.
: > [{quoted}](name=Tulare,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WhMXB6ed,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-12-31T23:49:42.680+0000) > > Morgana is the big one, although Lux, outfitted to support, also qualifies. Leona, Zyra. Anybody with a good stun or root. One I discovered just recently, which I haven't really stress tested yet, is Skarner. Should try out Nautilus. You want to see an enemy adc or support lose heart in the game if they are hit by a hook? Q, auto, W auto reset, E, R, auto.... all while your adc is hitting too. They are locked down with knock ups or stuns for about 3 seconds while taking tons of damage, and the enemy adc or support you are not hitting cant kill you or peel you off easy at all. Then your Q is up again pretty quick and the cycle repeats. When it works well you feel bad for the enemy. He isnt seen much, but he is still very strong indeed.
Yup. I'm familiar with Nautilus support. I just dashed a quick list off the top of my head and didn't think of him.
BradNo (NA)
: Or they will get feed. "Or both of them will have an average early game...": How does this equate to having a bad mid game?
Because that's where marksmen stand right now. They get a modest power spike at one item but then taper off until they get their third item. You say "Or they will get fed." I already implied that. One side feeds, the other gets fed. If neither side feeds/gets fed, then neither adc is relevant during the mid-game, while assassins, mages, and bruisers are highly active right now.
BradNo (NA)
: Brand and lux are not the most effective supports. Traditional supports provide much more for your team than a brand or lux does. I know some ADCs are bad, but it's better to have a good adc player/main who is playing a bad adc than to have a bad support player/main who is playing a good support in the meta
There's a tough balancing act there, though. You're right that traditional supports provide much more for the team, in the abstract case. But in practice they have to survive laning phase without feeding the enemy carry, while earning enough gold to itemize. Take two highly traditional support / adc pairs right now and put them bot lane. One of two things will happen. Either one of them will feed and the other team will have a relevant adc by the mid-game. Or both of them will have an average early game but be mostly irrelevant in the mid-game when all of the important action is happening.
BradNo (NA)
: Oriana is better than brand and lux. And what do you mean by "lockdown support?"
Morgana is the big one, although Lux, outfitted to support, also qualifies. Leona, Zyra. Anybody with a good stun or root. One I discovered just recently, which I haven't really stress tested yet, is Skarner.
BradNo (NA)
: The support meta is fucked up.
It's not a fun time to be an enchanter or tank. That leaves lockdown supports, which are okay, and off-mage supports like the ones you mentioned. I agree, some of them have a rough time with the actual "support" role. It's a lousy time to be learning how to play support because of how the meta is right now. The whole bot lane meta is really hostile to traditional lanes so a lot of marksmen are on the bench, unusual picks like Ziggs and Heimerdinger are showing up in the "carry" role, and the off-mage supports really punish a lot of the traditional support champs. Janna is my highest-rated champ but I've been enjoying Orianna, of all things, in the support role lately.
: idk why I would ever put this here.. but I need help
If you're thinking about harming yourself, please call the national suicide hotline instead. 800-273-8255. There are people there who can help you. I've struggled with depression, so I have some idea of how grey and hopeless you feel. Your circumstances are temporary and can be improved. Life can be better than feels possible to you right now, I promise.
: I have a problem with Nexus blitz but I am pretty sure this would be an easy fix.
I'm annoyed by how quickly a meta of "NB viable champions" emerged. I'd like to see a variant with all random champ selections, (including the week's free picks, like ARAM does now), to mitigate that aspect.
: If someone does that to me, I delete them instantly.
> [{quoted}](name=Still Virgiñ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EKjT6RU3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-31T13:25:26.911+0000) > > If someone does that to me, I delete them instantly. I've also deleted some people who invited me to queue but then wouldn't start the game until we had a 5-man team. The one guy, after we had already waited five minutes and nobody else had joined, was like, "Back in 5. I'm going to get lunch."
: Blue light in sky in new york
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that heralds the arrival of Gozer, the Destructor.
saltran (EUW)
This got me thinking about an adc who attacks by snapping his fingers. I'd like to see the Fabulous Fitzkarald in LoL!
: Phreak brings up a good issue about Jinx's kit
I think you're overthinking it. I think one small change would be sufficient. Let Fishbones keep the bonus damage and AOE. Let Pow-Pow keep the stacking AS. Move the range bonuses to Pow-Pow. Maybe reduce the cost of shooting rockets slightly to compensate.
: at least it was. support income is very close to the carry's lately with all the passive gold gen and bonus gold around, in addition to it no longer being absolutely necessary to get higher wards like pinks when you can use your trinket or support item
Ah, that's an interesting point. I haven't looked at actual data in a while. I quickly reviewed my recent match history and I can see some evidence of what you've described. In games that we won, most of the time the bot laner (not always an AD marksman) had 15-25% more gold than the support. There were three or four cases, however, where they were about even, and one where the Neeko support had more gold than the laner.
He4rtkiller (EUNE)
: Term support is the name of a class of champions but it is also the name of one of the positions you can play in the game. For example Soraka is a support champion that plays in the support position (as are Nami, Lulu and others). Leona is a tank champion that plays in the support position as well (as are Braum, Alistar and others). Brand is a mage champion that plays in the support position. Zyra is another example of a mage playing in the support position. There is no rule that says which type of champion can play in which position. Brand seems to work best in the support position so people play him there.
> [{quoted}](name=He4rtkiller,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Fb47hO9K,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-12-27T20:09:13.281+0000) > > Term support is the name of a class of champions but it is also the name of one of the positions you can play in the game. For example Soraka is a support champion that plays in the support position (as are Nami, Lulu and others). Leona is a tank champion that plays in the support position as well (as are Braum, Alistar and others). Brand is a mage champion that plays in the support position. Zyra is another example of a mage playing in the support position. There is no rule that says which type of champion can play in which position. Brand seems to work best in the support position so people play him there. Good distinction!
: My reaction when I see the enemy team has a....
Is that when you see them on your team, on the enemy team, or either? What if you see one of those on _both_ teams?
: how is brand a supp champ?
He operates adequately on a shoestring budget. Since "death is the best CC", he provides control in bot lane. True, he doesn't buff or debuff but enchanters aren't the only supports.
: I don't mind people playing mages bot lane, but for gods sake don't call it support when you're doing that. It's like michael phelps an olympic gold medal winner, you take him and put him in the special ed swimming olympics and then say those handicapped people are equal to michael phelps. It's stupid to see people play mages in bot lane, then through the chat say ignorant things like "gee, weird to see a support carry huh?" "I'm just a support" "Support, lol" you're not a support you're just in a different lane. Pyke being made as a "support" just re-enforces that mentality that if i play something in bot lane it's a support.
"Support" is more about the budget than anything else. If you pick up {{item:3098}}, generally avoid CS'ing, and (at least early) prioritize your laning partner, you're playing support. If your mid game transition has your team leading enough that you can go full mage, good for you. You parlayed a meagre early game budget into something much more impressive.
: Champions such as Velkoz & Xerath should NEVER be "supports"
How do you feel about {{champion:61}} support? It used to suck but I'm 7:2 with it in the last few weeks. (I'm inexpressibly happy about this.)
: Why do people complain about the mages played as supports but not assassins/bruisers?
I'm not even sure why anybody complains about _any_ champion being played "in the wrong place". Who goes where is purely an emergent property based on income and experience budgets and objective control. If the support budget is sufficient for a "non-support" mage to succeed in the support role, then mage supports emerge from the meta game. If more damage and less utility prove to be a more effective strategy than whatever's currently prevalent, mages will thrive there. In a lot of cases, off-meta choices don't even have to be "superior"; they just have to be surprising enough that the enemy team can't figure out how to deal with them before it's too late. In that regard, I guess I do understand why people complain, but it's really just whinging. "No fair, I was expecting an enchanter and you brought a mage." Tough. It _is_ fair. The meta game, up to and including what types of champions play well in which lanes, is descriptive, not prescriptive. Full disclosure: I don't like the current meta, but nobody's to blame for it. It just is what emerged from the system.
: I logged in just to downvote this
Naalith (NA)
: Time to downvote this post.
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