: Who is the most balanced champion in league?
{{champion:75}} You know his game, his win condition. You know when you can beat his ass in. When he can eventually beat your ass in, you know the game just stalled too long. E max is the vice versa. You know you can't beat him early. And when he has no stacks and becomes a glorified wither-tank who just gets murdered without doing anything at all, he'll know he let the game go on too long.
: I think {{champion:14}} is basically perfect right now.
> [{quoted}](name=RenownedWheat42,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hoXyjoyH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-04-28T17:55:56.709+0000) > > I think {{champion:14}} is basically perfect right now. He could use a little base stat love, but yea, I'd agree he's in a great spot
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 28
So what's going to happen when no one builds randuins anymore? Is that going to chill out with {{item:3056}} in the "most useless armor/hp items" section? Also, while it's nice that steraks is getting a buff, there's little incentive for me as a darius player to buy it. My guillotine and bleed scale only off of bonus AD. You'll probably see a lot of darii switch either to deaths dance or just do the same old cleaver into full tank. That being said, I think steraks will be a good change for {{champion:420}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:86}} Any chance you can shave off 5% of the base ad on the steraks fury and instead give the item more hp? It gives less HP than tank items which is counter-intuitive considering your stance on tank vs jugg itemization goals.
: ...nothing? Make him build lifesteal if he wants to heal.
> [{quoted}](name=Keevalroy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HzB7E0K5,comment-id=0012000000010000,timestamp=2017-04-27T00:34:47.508+0000) > > ...nothing? Make him build lifesteal if he wants to heal. youre actually intellectually incompetent. Thank god you're not a part of the balance team.
: My biggest issue is the Q heal, but other than that...meh, I suppose it's fine. Much better than the original.
> [{quoted}](name=Keevalroy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HzB7E0K5,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2017-04-26T17:20:44.955+0000) > > My biggest issue is the Q heal, but other than that...meh, I suppose it's fine. Much better than the original. What the hell else would go in its place? Even better base stats than he already has (and he has pretty much the best in the game overall)?
: You're replying to something completely different than what I'm talking about. I was saying specifically that all the less-than-ideal things that EndlessSorcerer listed as so-called counterplay were things you had to do to deal with him even before the rework, and they are still all you can do against him now if you don't have one of the champs that has tools to handle him. Not much has changed in that regard. What you are saying doesn't really stack up even if it was on topic though, because it's not like you can now suddenly do something against a Darius if you weren't able to before the rework. He's still an incredibly binary match-up for most other melees, and beating on him relies on him being bad more than you being good. Sure, he has SLIGHTLY more wiggle room if you are facing him, but the argument is whether or not the rework successfully made him significantly more healthy, and the answer is; No, not really.
> [{quoted}](name=Akaliholic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Oy3gNcBy,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-26T09:05:38.134+0000) > > You're replying to something completely different than what I'm talking about. > > I was saying specifically that all the less-than-ideal things that EndlessSorcerer listed as so-called counterplay were things you had to do to deal with him even before the rework, and they are still all you can do against him now if you don't have one of the champs that has tools to handle him. Not much has changed in that regard. > > What you are saying doesn't really stack up even if it was on topic though, because it's not like you can now suddenly do something against a Darius if you weren't able to before the rework. He's still an incredibly binary match-up for most other melees, and beating on him relies on him being bad more than you being good. Sure, he has SLIGHTLY more wiggle room if you are facing him, but the argument is whether or not the rework successfully made him significantly more healthy, and the answer is; No, not really. The answer is yes, because while his counterplay patterns haven't changed too much, they got a lot easier to exploit for many champions (Q was always try to get hit by handle if not possible to dodge, and as an added bonus, handle no longer applies bleed like it used to and the spell has a .75 second cast time). The only people who should be pissed off at his rework are tank mains.
: Yes, and all that applied BEFORE the rework. My point is that he's still almost as unhealthy as ever. Sure you can beat him. Doesn't mean that he's suddenly healthy. Not much has really changed from the old Darius to now in terms of what his opponents can do against him. And it was pretty much unanimous back in the day that release Darius was pretty much the most toxic and worst designed kit ever.
> [{quoted}](name=Akaliholic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Oy3gNcBy,comment-id=00010000000000010000,timestamp=2017-04-25T21:17:11.676+0000) > > Yes, and all that applied BEFORE the rework. My point is that he's still almost as unhealthy as ever. > > Sure you can beat him. Doesn't mean that he's suddenly healthy. Not much has really changed from the old Darius to now in terms of what his opponents can do against him. And it was pretty much unanimous back in the day that release Darius was pretty much the most toxic and worst designed kit ever. "all that applied BEFORE..." No it doesn't. Before the rework his Q was instant making it near impossible to dodge, and even if you did only get hit by the handle darius didn't care because it applied a bleed stack anyways for his ultimate. His W was a monstrosity that gave him unparalleled early game dueling with its slow AND cripple. His E was bullshit (though one could argue that's old code and not old darius's design).
Rioter Comments
: If you're someone who bans new champs in normals, may I ask why?
watch people cry {{champion:122}} mains most toxic mains
meowwow7 (NA)
: i'm sorry but whenever someone is usually complaining about a mechanic it's usually a mechanic that counters their main
> [{quoted}](name=meowwow7,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UHMIIqAn,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-23T23:37:38.269+0000) > > i'm sorry but whenever someone is usually complaining about a mechanic it's usually a mechanic that counters their main A heal can also fuck up darius because it can cockblock his dunk just as well as a shield. you must be braindead huh?
Rioter Comments
Ralanr (NA)
: They also usually have more built in sustain that scales with their health. So more health means more sustain. Juggernauts can basically last longer in a fight despite having fewer resistances because of all that sustain.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2jzTHvZ8,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2017-04-20T13:24:00.422+0000) > > They also usually have more built in sustain that scales with their health. So more health means more sustain. > > Juggernauts can basically last longer in a fight despite having fewer resistances because of all that sustain. Aye, I find it funny when people get shocked at how squishy darius can be if you outplay his Q.
Rioter Comments
: Most of Yasuo's problems could be solved with one simple yet crazy change...
He can no longer build lifesteal of any kind either since life steal is an on-hit effect. Of course, you could make a specific exception for that, since that alone would kill yasuo.
: So Riot, you actually are going to live with these Shen "changes?"
Agree with the post for the most part, I think you missed a 10hp per level buff they gave him. He now has a decent 1980ish base HP at level 18 compared to the ADC-level base HP he had before.
Rioter Comments
: Yes he is broken. Not overpowered but broken. Don't be a bronze and learn the different meaning already. His entire kit screams broken which it is but that does not necessarily make him overpowered. Ekkos kit is broken as well which allowed him to go full tank but is he overpowered? Don't think so. He just has an unhealthy scaling imo. And it's funny how you guys always assume yasuo players don't get better? His whole power is only gated by the skill of his player. Yes you might be able to dumpster some gold yasuo and then a diamond yasuo shits on you. Thenyou finally got better and reached diamond and suddenly master yasuo players shit on. So "getting better" is not a healthy way to deal with obnoxious champs.
> [{quoted}](name=GayFluffyUnicorn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fPy2sLHp,comment-id=000400000002,timestamp=2017-04-12T14:27:45.077+0000) > > Yes he is broken. > Not overpowered but broken. Don't be a bronze and learn the different meaning already. His entire kit screams broken which it is but that does not necessarily make him overpowered. Ekkos kit is broken as well which allowed him to go full tank but is he overpowered? Don't think so. He just has an unhealthy scaling imo. > And it's funny how you guys always assume yasuo players don't get better? His whole power is only gated by the skill of his player. > Yes you might be able to dumpster some gold yasuo and then a diamond yasuo shits on you. Thenyou finally got better and reached diamond and suddenly master yasuo players shit on. > So "getting better" is not a healthy way to deal with obnoxious champs. Diamond EUW aka NA gold, you're irrelevant
Ralanr (NA)
: It's giving juggernauts their toys back.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oFvh1FAH,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-04-11T20:56:06.483+0000) > > It's giving juggernauts their toys back. I didnt catch that in the notes, must have missed it. My bad. Still kinda wished they'd give it more HP instead of more damage, but I guess this is good too.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 11
Any chance you can make steraks shield scale off of only bonus HP so that it's optimal on juggernauts and only decent on light fighters? It should be an item that light fighters should only consider when they need a decent defensive boost without giving up too much damage. Also, you're not worried that straight buffs like this would just break the item on champs like graves? Why so scared to make it melee only? Also, can it get back some HP? The actual defensive stats it has is garbage.
Rioter Comments
: My bad, I don't expect people who are 0 kills and 4-8+ deaths with half my CS to scale into a complete monster with only PD and maybe an IE by 20-30m. But of course you'd call it a shitpost. Typical.
> [{quoted}](name=MissingKayo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fPy2sLHp,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-04-11T17:36:29.544+0000) > > My bad, I don't expect people who are 0 kills and 4-8+ deaths with half my CS to scale into a complete monster with only PD and maybe an IE by 20-30m. > > But of course you'd call it a shitpost. Typical. It is a shitpost, you probably misplayed hard. Yasuo isn't anywhere NEAR broken.
: Renekton actually isnt that easy to play, he might not seem as fance as riven or yasuo with there million dashes, but its quite hard.
> [{quoted}](name=Marcus Phillida,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fPy2sLHp,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-04-11T18:47:17.679+0000) > > Renekton actually isnt that easy to play, he might not seem as fance as riven or yasuo with there million dashes, but its quite hard. Renekton is a pure combo champion. Learn combos and you're good to go. He's nowhere near as hard as riven. I can't speak for yasuo since I haven't played him, only against him.
: *shits on Yasuo in lane* *20-30m mark comes, Yasuo starts melting entire teams*
You goons probably got outplayed. I never have an issue with him as {{champion:122}} even towards late game. Got all the tools we need to shut him down and keep him down.
koshkyra (NA)
: When you say "ggez", you're are legitimately being an A-hole.
settle down there cupcake, it's not the end of the world that some random guy online said you suck at a videogame.
: Midseason AD Itemization Changes
Any chance you guys can address the fact that even after all the small nerfs ivern has received he still has a climbing win rate in high elo and is now above 58%? Seriously, you can't just nerf numbers anymore, I think his kit is overloaded and something actually needs to be taken out.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Sasogwa (EUW)
: Not necessarily. Because %pen/%shred is nerfed, resists are way better for everyone now, including juggernaughts. Juggernaughts that are not melted are allowed to have their full power more reliably and longer, and it's really good for them. Fights should last longer and be more healthy. All in all, the changes look really really good.
> [{quoted}](name=Sasogwa,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iumMiUG9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-04-10T22:18:06.807+0000) > > Not necessarily. Because %pen/%shred is nerfed, resists are way better for everyone now, including juggernaughts. Juggernaughts that are not melted are allowed to have their full power more reliably and longer, and it's really good for them. Fights should last longer and be more healthy. All in all, the changes look really really good. No Juggernauts are just worse. Cleaver wasn't broken for juggernauts, it was broken for the ranged assholes who took it. Instead of reducing stack effectiveness from ranged champions, riot has decided they'll just water down yet another juggernaut item, the only juggernaut item left worth buying.
Rioter Comments
  Rioter Comments
: What are Lee Sin's weakness?
He's heavily reliant on landing Qs in most scenarios which is fairly easy to dodge if it isn't point blank or you're CCd. He can't handle heavier fighters at all on his own. All of his mobility spells are interruptible (as darius I can apprehend him out of his Q or hop). In order to have meaningful DPS he cant spell spam, he has to weave autos between spells. This ties in again with the fact that if he isn't fighting a squishy that he can just full combo he's going to suffer heavily trying to auto between spells for any real sort of DPS potential. He falls off pretty hard. Late game he amounts to "can I make an insane play?" If he doesn't make an insane outplay, he's pretty much just a shitty fighter who can neither tank all that much nor deal any meaningful amounts of damage.
: Yeah, but he's not strong because of good design. Luckily, Vlad is not as problematic as Nunu, and thematically it feels like he is halfway there: Tranfusion and Pool are core elements, as I kept them in the concept I proposed. However, the rest of his current kit just feels lackluster at best.
> [{quoted}](name=Speedweeb,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MqvKAm0O,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-09T14:37:08.232+0000) > > Yeah, but he's not strong because of good design. Luckily, Vlad is not as problematic as Nunu, and thematically it feels like he is halfway there: Tranfusion and Pool are core elements, as I kept them in the concept I proposed. However, the rest of his current kit just feels lackluster at best. vlad is fine as he is.
: Can we at least get a red response on why they choose to leave Steraks as a shit item
> [{quoted}](name=Mordepool,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rVeibxpG,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2017-04-10T02:19:08.419+0000) > > Can we at least get a red response on why they choose to leave Steraks as a shit item It's very aggravating
Rioter Comments
Ralanr (NA)
: Don't forget the scaling on his Q and ult also.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rVeibxpG,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-04-08T22:31:58.243+0000) > > Don't forget the scaling on his Q and ult also. True, and he's one of the few tank who will still be able to get decent to great bonus HP after these tank item changes.
Rioter Comments
: Follow-up to early Midseason Durability feedback
Any chance you can take a look at this suggestion for steraks and give your thoughts? https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/rVeibxpG-riot-this-is-the-time-to-actually-make-steraks-worth-a-slot-for-juggernauts Steraks is in a pretty bad spot right now.
Ralanr (NA)
: Sion would fucking love this.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rVeibxpG,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-04-08T22:05:32.057+0000) > > Sion would fucking love this. Probably since his W IIRC is bonus hp so as the game goes on the 50% bonus HP scale starts to kick in heavily compared to the 30% max HP. Overall I still believe the 50% bonus HP scale is going to be a small nerf for most champions and that's why I wanted to have the shield decay over 5 seconds instead of 3 as a counterweight. Unfortunately, items like warmogs are shadows of themselves so trying to actually get a ton of HP these days, even before the tank items update, is pretty hard.
: I'm frankly not sure why a skirmisher getting a sterak's is even really an abuse case tbh. It's just another choice of item they can get instead of Maw, which several of them can build. Anyway, decent changes, the numbers might not be completely right but the idea is good. Make it an item that benefits champions with high base AD and who actually build a good amount of health.
> [{quoted}](name=PermabannedGaren,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rVeibxpG,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-04-08T21:53:10.873+0000) > > I'm frankly not sure why a skirmisher getting a sterak's is even really an abuse case tbh. It's just another choice of item they can get instead of Maw, which several of them can build. > > Anyway, decent changes, the numbers might not be completely right but the idea is good. Make it an item that benefits champions with high base AD and who actually build a good amount of health. Numbers too high? Too low? Too cheap or expensive? Feedback appreciated Also, I was thinking more of the days when ADCs took it, and occasionally I see a graves get it much to my chagrin.
: You might see some melee carries buying this with BC and Titanic and abusing it if the bonus ad lasts until out of combat. RIven with those three items and new GA would be a pain in the ass to kill if her last item was lifesteal. As well as not really losing out of the damage portion with the way titanic works in her kit.
> [{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rVeibxpG,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-08T20:58:23.073+0000) > > You might see some melee carries buying this with BC and Titanic and abusing it if the bonus ad lasts until out of combat. RIven with those three items and new GA would be a pain in the ass to kill if her last item was lifesteal. As well as not really losing out of the damage portion with the way titanic works in her kit. Not really, her shield probably wouldn't be too big since she won't be building too much HP. A build like this would make her lose out on a lot of bonus AD scaling, and it won't give that much AD for her passive and Q which are the only total scales in her kit. Riven has a pretty shitty base AD too so steraks won't be giving her all that much, I'm not worried about riven potentially abusing a steraks like this at all.
: tl;dr Revert it to what it was previously, it was fine
> [{quoted}](name=fuffychan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rVeibxpG,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-04-08T17:24:20.689+0000) > > tl;dr > > Revert it to what it was previously, it was fine No the proposed steraks is different from any past iteration of steraks. Read, God gave you a brain, and it's not even that big a wall of text, I pressed Enter a lot of times to make it more readable.
: Remember why it was gutted to begin with? Marksmen were abusing it to outlast mages & assassins. I agree it's meant for bruisers, but you're just asking for a repeat problem if you buff it without some kind of limitation. The bonus health could work, though it could still be an issue; hence why I'm jumping the gun to cut them off at the pass.
> [{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rVeibxpG,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-08T17:13:30.988+0000) > > Remember why it was gutted to begin with? > Marksmen were abusing it to outlast mages & assassins. I agree it's meant for bruisers, but you're just asking for a repeat problem if you buff it without some kind of limitation. > The bonus health could work, though it could still be an issue; hence why I'm jumping the gun to cut them off at the pass. It was gutted because marksman did the maw + steraks combo. That combo was demolished when the passives were made unique.
: I'm not the defacto voice for juggs or anything, just an enthusiast who'd like to see them be actual melee carries and not discount tanks. i'm glad somebody else noticed that the AD doesn't even last until out of combat, and doubly so that someone else is fed up with durable items being nerfed and having their prices cut.
> [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rVeibxpG,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-04-08T17:17:45.809+0000) > > I'm not the defacto voice for juggs or anything, just an enthusiast who'd like to see them be actual melee carries and not discount tanks. > > i'm glad somebody else noticed that the AD doesn't even last until out of combat, and doubly so that someone else is fed up with durable items being nerfed and having their prices cut. You're not, nor am I the de facto voice for darius, but we're not quiet on these boards. It'd be nice to get malicious on board with this as well. It's about time we try and collectively come together as juggernaut mains and tell riot what's up, and that they can't forget us in this upcoming update.
: good changes
> [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rVeibxpG,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-04-08T17:11:18.471+0000) > > good changes Aye Big Lincoln, it's good to have your approval on this. It'd be nice if this could go through.
: *Melee only*
> [{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rVeibxpG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-04-08T17:07:51.029+0000) > > *Melee only* I don't think we have to go that far yet, but I'm all for this if that's necessary good sir.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Verxint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bAm2ssE7,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-04-07T16:58:18.146+0000) > > We're losing 10% crit damage reduction for an 80/80 armor/mr item and something with an active that **doubles** our HP in a teamfight. I can live with this. Acting like only tanks buy omen... Fighters are getting screwed over by this more than people will admit.
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bAm2ssE7,comment-id=00000004,timestamp=2017-04-08T04:07:01.858+0000) > > Acting like only tanks buy omen... Fighters are getting screwed over by this more than people will admit. Amen. Juggernauts are going to feel that randuins gutting like a five star to the back.
LankPants (OCE)
: Rand's is more of a jungle tank item. Lane tanks rarely even consider it since they already buy Sunfire. Jungle tanks can't lose 60% of their damage. Jungle tanks are actually AOE damage reliant. These changes don't even effect the same sorts of champions.
> [{quoted}](name=LankPants,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bAm2ssE7,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2017-04-08T00:56:23.802+0000) > > Rand's is more of a jungle tank item. Lane tanks rarely even consider it since they already buy Sunfire. > > Jungle tanks can't lose 60% of their damage. Jungle tanks are actually AOE damage reliant. > > These changes don't even effect the same sorts of champions. "Rands is more of a jungle tank item. Lane tanks rarely even consider it..." You're joking right? And it's also core on many juggernauts, not just tanks.
: {{item:3748}} forgetting this and also this one kappa {{item:3022}} But yeah I see what you mean. Think they just need to make more juggernaut items then. As per Deadmans idk. I've built it on tanks before but mainly as another armor option when stacking vs an all AD team. And also a few times when Randuins woulda been a good choice but Deadmans exists so there's really no reason to get Randuins unless you really need the anti-crit (cuz the AoE slow is useless when 4/5 champs have dashes).
> [{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xzpx38K3,comment-id=000d00000000,timestamp=2017-04-08T04:00:07.651+0000) > > {{item:3748}} forgetting this and also this one kappa {{item:3022}} > > But yeah I see what you mean. Think they just need to make more juggernaut items then. As per Deadmans idk. I've built it on tanks before but mainly as another armor option when stacking vs an all AD team. And also a few times when Randuins woulda been a good choice but Deadmans exists so there's really no reason to get Randuins unless you really need the anti-crit (cuz the AoE slow is useless when 4/5 champs have dashes). Titanic and mallet are just mediocre. Ironically, Titanic rewards higher attack speed onhit builds (even if you dont stack as much HP, if you're attacking way more you're getting more out of it than a slow hyper-tanky juggernaut like darius or garen or illaoi) as opposed to tanky builds and the same goes for mallet which is probably more core on certain ranged champions as opposed to melee champions. Randuins right now is pretty much better than deadmans. It has a lot more anti kite, the active is 4 seconds man, that's a LONG ASS time to be slowed. Dead mans also doesn't do much for you since the smallest of CCs saps stacks.
Ralanr (NA)
: http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2017/01/dev-state-of-champion-update-january-2017/ >We want tanks to get a much greater benefit from tank items than other classes, **so they can correctly play the role of being the tankiest champions in the game.** Check again.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xzpx38K3,comment-id=000600000000000100010000000000010000,timestamp=2017-04-07T23:27:56.208+0000) > > http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2017/01/dev-state-of-champion-update-january-2017/ > > Check again. Riot has long maintained that juggernauts and tanks retain relatively similar levels of tankiness. Supporting language of this goes as far back as when they first decided to name the subclasses http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses
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Tychusfindlay919

Level 30 (NA)
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