Sasogwa (EUW)
: For the last time, spellvamp was not removed because it was strong. It was garbage for every mage except a select few, like {{champion:8}} and could not be good without breaking him. Mages tend to have bursty abilities and not so much DPS, except some ({{champion:69}} for instance), which makes damage - dependent sustain overall not so attractive. ADC's aren't favoured in a mage VS ad comparison because they have access to sustain and mages not. They're strong because their itemization, kits and supports need to be toned down. Don't try to put the problem where it isn't. Giving spellvamp back to mages won't do shit. https://media.giphy.com/media/26uf2JHNV0Tq3ugkE/giphy.gif And {{item:3146}} is taken more for the burst than the sustain, really. {{champion:7}} couldn't care less about sustaining.
Riot's reasoning for removing spellvamp still doesn't make sense since Death's Dance - an item which provides spellvamp for AD characters - exists. And not all AD characters are ADCs - physical damage dealers are just as diverse as magical ones; we have sustained damage dealers, single target and AoE casters and unkillable monstrosities. So why can spellvamp be balanced for those but not for their AP counterparts?
: > [{quoted}](name=NotCounter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ukPA2w0N,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2017-06-20T20:09:16.181+0000) > > i wouldn't call lee's kit is overloaded. thresh's sort of is but it's not even a bad thing for a support to be more than a stun or heal bot. it's just sort of imbalanced because there's not many champions like him yet, but there will be in the future Thresh's kit IS overloaded. Can you name another support that has, Hard cc? 2 peel spells (3 if you use hook to pull threats away from carries) , and then aoe cc.(the box) aswell as being tanky?
> [{quoted}](name=AwesomeGuyDj,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ukPA2w0N,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2017-06-20T20:18:31.516+0000) > > Thresh's kit IS overloaded. Can you name another support that has, Hard cc? 2 peel spells (3 if you use hook to pull threats away from carries) , and then aoe cc.(the box) aswell as being tanky? {{champion:12}}
: Because this game's balance is shit.
Short and clear answer, I see. I like you. But really. AD casters are just as diverse as AP ones. You have champs who just murder you near instantly {{champion:91}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:64}} You have sustain/tanky powerhouses which become even more unkillable with DD {{champion:122}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:64}} You have heavy AoE champions who can heal to near full with good use of their abilities {{champion:21}} {{champion:92}} You have sustained damage dealers which can use it to stay at full (aka all marks(wo)men) But noooo. Spellvamp was completely unbalanceable.
: Guy's, I've found the Ryze of Items
And even before that it was called Stark's Fervor, and gave an attack speed aura for allies while reducing armor of nearby enemies. One more iteration to the count. Damn, now I feel old for remembering that.
: Two reasons; It's a lot harder to play around itemized burst healing than continuous healing, and champions like Vlad and Morde made Spell Vamp broke no matter what.
"Harder to play around against itemized burst healing" doesn't really hold water when Death's Dance exists, since it provides exactly that to AD casters - while also making them even harder to kill due to bleed passive. I think the better question is why is spellvamp considered unbalanceable for AP casters yet perfectly fine for AD ones?
: If you had to rework your own main.. How would you do it?
Raka is the closest thing to a main I have, and I'd honestly just revert the last mini-rework she had. The iteration where she had a sweet spot on Q and healed for every champion hit was just perfect; it actually encouraged me to take risks and use my Q and rewarded skillful play while punishing mindless W spamming from the backline. ...well, I actually loved old, old Raka to death even more, but that ain't happening again. She was THE sustained damage battlemage with piss-poor burst, mobility and CC but once she got inside your team she wreaked havoc on squishies and tanks alike with spammable AoE MR shred (which also slowed and burned with right itemization) while being pretty hard to kill. Yes, she was annoying as all hell but actually had plenty of counterplay and we haven't had a single true tanky brawler mage since then.
: It locks onto their position and fires from that. It does feel weird at first when compared to Noc ult, but Rek'sai's scales better. They'd have to nerf it a lot if they made it lock-on. If there's a lot of cases where it's not hitting then they'll just adjust the delay (like they did with Kled courage bar proccing).
It locks onto their position and then hits after a massive delay. How can you not see the huge problem it represents? It has all the drawbacks of a highly telegraphed skillshot with none of the control over where you aim it.
: Thats like asking why can lucian q miss. It just can if done right dont bitch
Lucian's Q has a split second delay. Rek's new ult is unhittable unless someone lands a hard CC on your target. Imagine if Lucian's Q had a 2 second delay. You'd be surprised if you ever actually managed to land that shit.
: continue to be a moron i dont care haha
Since you replied you do care. And have a tip: Insulting someone in an argument puts a big, flashing neon sign over your head saying "I'm wrong and I have no valid argument to back myself up". So I won't waste my time anymore trying to get through your thick skull since it's utterly pointless.
: there was nothing logical about what you said cause all your points were assumptions thank you NEXT!
My "assumptions" are based on cold hard numbers on Syndra's damage and cooldowns vs. an average squishy's HP pool, which you can access on this game's wiki page. And I see you still haven't bothered to come up with a logical argument, so I'll just disregard your opinion as insignificant since you have nothing of value to back it up.
: OK, Here's why we used to think >>Orianna<< was balanced and now we think she's OP.
This goes both ways. You ask for us to present arguments and evidence on why she's balanced, yet your argument/evidence consists of "she is broken, deal with it." So, where is your evidence if I might ask? If you are asking for it from other people then surely you can provide some yourself.
Atanchan (NA)
: I'm pretty sure it's not the "noisiness" but the multitude of voice lines it has. With something like those two other examples, it doesn't matter so much because they aren't exactly going to play during a chaotic fight. On the flipside, if Requiem's voice lines were played to the enemy team, one of like fifteen very different sounds could end up playing at any time, potentially obscuring the main sound effect of the spell, making it a case where someone could have _no idea what Karthus is currently doing_ due to having not heard the voice line before. And after learning what Karthus does, that's still fifteen different voice lines you'd need to develop a mental response to. Compare that to like Rek's global screech for her ult. There's absolutely no variation to it - if you've heard it once, you'll hear what it'll be like every time afterwards when she uses her ult. Overwatch's heroes used a similar principle for their ultimate voice lines, only have two - and while they're very different, their differences actually serve a vital purpose, given that one always plays for an enemy ( or your own ) ultimate, and one always plays for an allied ultimate.
But Requiem has a very distinct visual effect that is impossible to miss. People aren't going to be "Hm, Karthus said something different than last time, I wonder what it is?", they are going to see ghostly pillars above their heads and go "Oh shit, Karthus is ulting" no matter which voiceline he utters. And Overwatch's heroes are kinda different because it's a FPS. Unlike League where you have a 360 degree vision radius, in OW if enemy ults behind (or above) you you aren't going to see them so you need an audible cue to warn you. With Karthus there is no way you won't see his ult visuals, and there is no way to get them confused with anything else.
: so many stupid arguments from you NEXT!
Damn. I must really take my hat off before counter-arguments that logical and eloquent.
: Why is syndra allowed to be OP
If Syndra is missing everything and then deleting her with her ultimate alone then one of following two scenarios has happened: 1.) Syndra missed her stuff and only got a few spheres out and still almost deleted you. For this scenario to happen she has to be fed to ungodly levels. And if that Syndra happens to be the one who misses all her abilities often like you mentioned then how the hell did you manage to feed her? And we are not talking about 1 or 2 lucky kills she gets with a jungler gank, we are talking about much bigger advantage, 2.) Syndra missed her stuff until she got 7 spheres out and then deleted you. In this scenario, you let her spam her spells for at least 10.5 seconds (the amount of time she needs to get 7 spheres with 40% CDR if she spams them on cooldown). And honestly, if you are dumb enough to not punish her for dancing around you doing effectively nothing for 10+ seconds your nexus should immediately explode from sheer stupidity and not just your lifebar. And it's not like she still has 3 sphere grab anymore which used to make 7-spheres ult easy to pull, so you don't even have that for an excuse.
Regenos (EUNE)
: How low account hijackers had become
I just can't comprehend how can this game be so popular for so long and still not implement even the most basic security measures; with "you're held responsible for everything involving your account" policy it is just unacceptable.
: Can Lee be dumpstered now that 7.09 didn't change anything
Considering that he has reached near 50% pick rate with around 25% ban rate without Riot doing anything, i think he will probably have to reach old Kassadin levels before Riot finally decides to do something. Oh, and he will reach that level once 10 bans hit, I assure you. inb4 patch 7.XX notes: >"We noticed that Lee is near-permanently banned due to universal frustration he caused to the player base over the years while killing diversity all by himself, but he brings too much of a value to competitive scene to nerf him significantly. We have a fix in place to allow Lee players to continue to~~ abuse~~ enjoy their champion while not reducing his power greatly" > -3 base AD >NEW Wardhop the ban hammer - Lee is now immune to ban phase
: ***
Actually Lucian had times when he was below 10% pick rate. And during cinderhulk meta for a patch or two Lee had around 18% pick rate, compared to almost 50% he has today. So where were those 30% when Lee wasn't top tier? That's well more than a half of his player base not playing him because he's fun but rather because he's busted - making "he's just fun" argument invalid. And it's one thing being careful how they nerf him. It's entirely another thing if he gets buffs after a single patch of not being top tier. You know what? Riot, their favouritism and Lee players can go collectively fuck themselves once we get 10 bans. If they refuse to balance him then I'll simply remove him from my games. Permanently.
Amihan (EUW)
: Seeing no lee sin nerf yet on PBE be like...
47% pickrate and rising. Seriously, how high does he need to go before Riot acknowledges the problem? Can't wait for those 10 bans. Once I am able to permanently remove him from my games jungle will become a much more varied and healthy place.
: Every semi-mobile champion and every champion with hard CC says hi. {{champion:103}} and {{champion:92}} enthusiastically waving. {{champion:30}}…is crying. Most definitely crying.
Funfact: Lee has double the pickrate of those 3 you listed combined. Just saying, if one in 130 champions gets played in half of all games then maybe he actually is an issue.
: RIOT PLEASE DON'T KILL AP RAMMUS
On the one hand we have Riot claiming that they "aim to preserve alternate builds". On the other hand we have them destroying every single one of them when they update a champion - even deliberately going out of their way to do so by reducing scaling that has zero effect on a champion's primary build. Since actions speak louder than words I'm just going to call their words a blatant lie.
Vallalan (NA)
: People do not play lee because he is good. he is popular even when he is bad. they play him because his kit is fun. for example: Ivern is straight up busted right now, but has a lower playrate. Lee Sin is not busted, just relatively strong. and he is being played all the time. People play this game for fun. Sure we love to win and we're all serious but there are very few jungle champions as fun as Lee Sin. Hell he may be the MOST fun jungler out there come to think of it. I'm tired of Lee too, just like I'm tired of Lucian, Yasuo, Ahri, Ezreal, and Thresh...but there's a reason champs are popular. just gotta accept it.
I really don't know. That argument might have been passable for, say, 15-25% pickrate, but 40? Is Lee that much more fun than other 130 champions? Does Riot suck at champion design so much that they can't make a champion at least equally fun as Lee in more than a hundred attempts? Back in Cinderhulk meta Lee sported around 18% pickrate for a few patches. Less than half of current pickrate. He didn't receive significant kit changes which made him more fun since then. Riot simply nerfed his competitors and buffed him back to #1 spot. That's more than half of his playerbase not playing him because he's fun but because he's undisputed king of the jungle. Take Lucian as another example - another champion you mentioned. Lucian is fun to play and flashy champion, same as Lee. He has strong early game during which he can build a sizeable lead for himself if played properly, same as Lee - yet he only started seeing this much play after BoTRK changes, before which he was under 10% pickrate. Again, BoTRK changes didn't magically make him more fun - they just made him busted enough to be picked in almost half of all games.
Sraeg2013 (EUNE)
: >And I'm pretty sure the thing that made her overpowered - triple sphere grab on W which made team wide stuns and 7-ball spheres much easier to pull - got removed 2 or 3 patches after it got introduced. To be exact it was _"2-3 patches after it got any recognition in LCS"_. It actually took them **16** patches after the introduction (6.9-7.1). They were 6 days short to making it exactly 6 months. The joke is that for those initial 4-5 months only Syndra players had any problem with the passive. I love how LCS works on people. >"Syndra misses all skills and still oneshots me with her ultimate even though it isn't really possible QQ" Well, it is possible, but you either have to be AFK for at least 10 minutes in the beginning or be a complete glass cannon in late game. In most cases, however, it's _"we are both level 6 without items and she 100-0 me with ult only"_ which indeed is impossible.
My bad then. Really thought it was faster. But it still stands that she got nerfed when the problem was recongized. And I especially love people who say that she misses everything and one-shots them with a 7 ball ult. She takes more than 10 seconds at 40% CDR to get 7 spheres up. Why the hell are you allowing her to dance around doing effectively nothing for that long without punishing her in any manner? You deserve to get deleted instantly in that case. ...either that or she is fed enough to murder someone with less than 7 spheres. In which case she does exactly what an insanely fed damage champion should do.
Sraeg2013 (EUNE)
: >{{champion:134}} So... how long do you play this game? For nearly a year she was unplayable due to bugs introduced after Riot nerfed her and you're telling me she in a "Never Nerf" club?
And I'm pretty sure the thing that made her overpowered - triple sphere grab on W which made team wide stuns and 7-ball spheres much easier to pull - got removed 2 or 3 patches after it got introduced. But hey, let's farm upvotes to "Syndra misses all skills and still oneshots me with her ultimate even though it isn't really possible QQ" people.
: Every champion. He has three mechanics missing from his kit: invulnerability, invisibility, and max health % damage. If he had that he would have every mainstream mechanic in the game.
He has missing health % on his Q tho. And his R kinda has max health % too - and stronger than regular max health % if used properly since you are dealing tank's HP% to a squish instead of squishy's HP% to a squishy.
: Lee is riots poster boy, having been in the meta pretty much since season 2 and I doubt they are changing that anytime soon
Well maybe when Lee becomes only playable in blind pick after we get our 10 bans it will finally open their eyes.
: {{champion:98}} At least you can hold your weapons.
{{champion:43}} You guys at least have some of your identity left preserved.
: Member these? http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130319094452/leagueoflegends/images/9/9c/Sword_of_the_Divine_item.png https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/b/b8/Madred%27s_Razors_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20130319090701 https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/e/e5/Wriggle%27s_Lantern_item.png/revision/latest?cb=20140115130057 http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140301100532/leagueoflegends/images/7/74/Feral_Flare_item.png http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130731230043/leagueoflegends/images/a/a8/Deathfire_Grasp_item.png http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130319090010/leagueoflegends/images/3/3b/Atma%27s_Impaler_item.png http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130319090425/leagueoflegends/images/d/d3/Heart_of_Gold_item.png
Old Flare was when I had the most fun in playing this game. Flare + {{item:3085}} (which gave 70% AS back then) {{item:3009}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3072}} on Jinx. Thanks to her minigun she could reach near 2.5 AS with Flare and Hurricane only. And then you could pretty much facetank 3 people while shredding them with some pretty insane hybrid damage.
: @Riot Why are you so resistant to giving Tank Junglers bonus damage to monsters?
Last time Riot made tank junglers strong they pushed Lee Sin out of the spotlight. Riot is sure never to repeat that atrocious mistake again.
: Skirmishers tend to be defined by short-ranged, persistent mobility though, and also have inbuilt defenses that they're expected to rely on besides raw tankiness. Fiora, for example, has short-ranged dashes on a really low cooldown, plus persistent bonus MS, and relies on her W block to survive encounters, while generally building damage. By contrast, Lee mostly facetanks, though his mobility does let him dodge some things, and unlike a skirmisher, he can reach the back line pretty much immediately. Skirmishers also tend to have to walk or fight their way out of an encounter, since their mobility isn't really long-ranged, whereas Lee Sin still bypasses that with his ward jump.
He doesn't really fit in any of melee subclasses tho. Divers, as you said, are good at getting in and dealing damage, but not good at getting out. Lee is good at all of those. Skirmishers are defined by low-CD mobility they have to use to survive and sustained damage; Lee can tank his fair share and also has great burst. He could've been classified as an assassin, having tools to get in, burst his target, and get out. But again, his W and passive give him the tools to win sustained fights too. He does have utility to be a tank (and champions with less CC/utility than him have been built tank to a great success) - except he has too much damage to be one. Juggernauts - just no. Lee might have the damage to be one but he certainly lacks immobility of them. I wish Riot would just decide what they want Lee to be and go with that. As it stands, he possesses the strengths of all melee character subclasses with none of the weaknesses.
: one is a skillshot and the other requires an ally, usually a ward. so if you dodge the skillshot then you're good, if he has no wards, you're fine. if you use wards, then he wont be able to walk up within his w range and pointblank q you as the op says. and lee doesnt have really good damage, like its ok. but its not the greatest past 8 mins or so. second. WHO CARES IF HE HAS A HIGH PICKRATE! HES FUN TO PLAY! LIKE JESUS PPL SAY CHAMPIONS ARE BORING BUT THEN WHEN THERES A FUN ONE AND IT GETS PLAYED ALOT PEOPLE CRY LIKE LITTLE BABIES WANTING NERFS. honestly, what are they supposed to do? remove the parts of his kit that make it fun, becasue doing that would hurt his already subpar winrate? or change the numbers to make him win less, making him win less and making him less fun, while again hurting his poor winrate. you say 40 percent pickrate, like he destroys every game hes in, which he doesnt. and half the time statistacally hes on your side, so you only have to face him every 5 games, which is a lot. but that should give you time to learn to play against him. are are you just really bad?
Between jungle item and trinket there really isn't a moment where he does not have a ward unless he gets really, really reckless. And how exactly is around 50% winrate on a supposedly high skill champion subpar? High skill champions are supposed to be sub-50%, especially when they are picked a lot. But no, even when Lee's pick rate takes a leap his winrate does not change much. This means one of two following things: 1.) Lee is actually not a high skill champion. 2.) Lee is overpowered enough that you can fail with him and still win. And yes, he destroys games: not directly, but by completely killing variety by himself. For years viable jungle pool has consisted of Lee and jungles who can deal with Lee; and this has been and still is actively enforced by Riot. With that high pick rate you can't really pick a junglier who isn't able to deal with Lee and just hope other team does not have him. Honestly, they could just rename jungle to Lee Sin role and it would not be far from the truth. And I've learned to play against him - you really don't have a fucking choice here when you see his ugly mug in half of your games. Also, just saying - when you pull "you're just bad" card without anything to back it up it is a huge flag saying "I'm all out of valid arguments". Also thank God for 10 bans coming soon. League will become a much better place without Lee.
: 41% playrate 50% winrate
I really want to see Lee nerfed into the ground just for one patch. Because judging by arguments of Lee players he is picked in almost half of all games solely because he is so much fun to play - and I'm just dying to know how many of them would drop him at the first notice of him not being the undisputed king of the jungle.
: it's pathetically low Winter's Wrath [W]: 60 mana 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 sec Cooldown Sejuani swings her flail, dealing 12/19/26/33/40 (+x) physical damage and applying Frost to enemies hit. She then lashes out with her flail, dealing 48/76/104/132/160 (+x) physical damage and applying Frost. Winter's Wrath deals 20% bonus damage to monsters. And you need roughly 4000 HP to double its damage at rank 5. she should keep her DPS tank identity. it's unique to her and it would be far more interesting than being a stunbot
And the fact that they made it deal physical damage just adds insult to injury. Current Sej might go Liandry's and/or Void Staff to a surprisingly good effect if her team needs more damage. I feel like this change was to specifically shift her away from a DPS tank to be honest.
: Okay but her passive lets her sit at over 100 armor and mr every 15 seconds. Sooner if you build at least one MS item. Why is no one talking about that in her abilities? I feel like this thread is just mad the ults not as great anymore. She charges in there and nails a headbutt, team follows up while she uses the w (and before it was just a garen spin that did AP and slowed like okay?) to stack the frost, then yeah its just a a matter of freeze squishies, blow them up, ult someone, and clean up. I like this new sej and she makes me actually wanna play her. Looks way more fun than just "Press R when 3+ are in range and hope your team isnt potatoes"
No one is denying that her passive is bonkers. That strong of a defense steroid + potential max HP damage is nothing to be laughed at. Thing is, she's probably going to be another Malzahar with it: so much power loaded in her passive that rest of her kit is watered down to the point it just feels like shit to use: W becoming a glorified stacking tool (and they turned its damage into physical? REALLY?) and R being utterly destroyed in every aspect.
: ***
And the fact that he gets buffed when he isn't a top pick for two patches all but assures for him to always come back.
Rioter Comments
: Popular and viable is problematic because.....why?
Because at this point we can rename Jungle role to Lee Sin role and it wouldn't be far from the truth. For years Riot has enforced the meta of Lee and people who can deal with Lee and now that he has passed 40% pickrate it's worse than ever.
Borsuk (EUW)
: Lee Sin's safety is freaking aggravating
This is the biggest offender with Lee IMO: You don't play against him. He plays against you how he pleases. Can he kill you? He will and there's nothing you can do because he has 2 gapclosers, a slow and for some reason 350 base MS to go with those. He can't kill you? Well you aren't killing him either because, again, he has 3 ways to escape. And he has passed 40% pickrate without Riot doing anything. Thank God that 10 bans are coming soon, I'm looking forward to never having to see him again.
: Client Tabs Out At Least Once Per Game
Running into problems on Mac last few patches too. But my game doesn't just minimize - it causes my entire computer to restart. Basically makes the game unplayable since every match is a gamble: will it happen during an important fight or while I'm walking to lane?
: So what's the counterplay when lee comes to your lane with red and ward jumps ?
Same as Annie. Don't ever get in range of his gapcloser or you die in a second with nothing you can do. Except Annie actually has a meaningful downtime due to Flash having a long cool down.
Borsuk (EUW)
: > 15 base damage on Q (This is a fucking joke) How is a total of 45 damage on lvl 1, which gets to 120 by 16, on a spammable ability _a fucking joke_? Changes are still a nerf overall, obviously, but 120 damage each 5 seconds is huge for a tank.
No, it does not get to 120 by 16. It gets to 120 IF he pulls the blade through someone. Which realistically you will do only after you E through someone - and his E is most certainly not up every 5 seconds and still requires a massive chunk of energy. And here I saw how they said they'd nerf Shen for pro play and buff him for solo play - and I actually expected he'll get actual shifts in power and not just plain nerfs. Yes, I get it, he is picked in LCS and is not named Lee so he can't be allowed to be picked often. But i's still fucking love to play him without gimping myself for doing so.
Saewin (NA)
: Your three highest masteries are your waifus. how screwed are you?
{{champion:143}} Would probably kill me {{champion:37}} I'm more than OK with this {{champion:18}} Hell, I'm more than OK with this
: Doesn't do anything about her having tons of easy magic damage harass while being basically immune to melee champs.
She still has the same harassment as before, except from an occasional magic attack - which is a nerf to early game. As I see it has no base damage or scaling and you can't really stack it fast early due to her mana issues, so MR will hurt her more than before. It is a buff later when you stack it up and get some penetration tho. Overall, I like it. Nice to feel like actually having a passive for a change,
RexSaur (NA)
: Everytime Lee's "wardhop R Q-Q s" me i feel in bathed in awe
It has the same skill requirement, counterplay and the effect on its unfortunate target as that of Annie's flash + bear combo... Except it's up far more often since Annie is restricted to when she has Flash up.
: Unfortunately Riot created another Azir, she's going to have to be nerfed into the dust because she's a pretty heavy pick in pro play and honestly just takes up a ban slot every game.
She's more like Shen, actually. She'll be ban or pick in LCS as long as she has that ultimate, no matter how shit the rest of her kit becomes. There are enough balancing levers in the rest of her kit to make her strong but not overbearing for the 99.999% of non-LCS players. And I hate her, mind you. But these nerfs are too fucking much. Jungle Camille is dead and top lane Camille loses way too much of her sustain. Plus, early her ultimate will be usable fot a kill only when jungler comes, since it already offers little in direct combat value and losing almost half of the duration is really painful.
: believe it or not, when i see lee sin picked, i have a sigh of relief
At least those champions aren't in every fucking game and can actually be punished if they fuck up. Hell, I'd fight against release Kha'Zix in his full broken glory of evolved W+E against Lee anytime. Lee isn't hated because he's overpowered. He's hated because he's frustrating to play against AND because he is killing variety by himself. Kha and Shaco are overpowered. They are going to get their due nerfs, we will forget about them and will continue to circlejerk about next top picks. But Lee - Lee will remain and continue to kill variety even then.
Lugg (NA)
: I have loved hearing how ADCs are so under powered this season. They are just as OP as always. Outside of Morde (who is OP as well) you never see a single pro team not playing at least one ADC in their games.
Just sayin', even when boards were chuck full of ADC players complaining how terrible they were having an ADC was still mandatory. When mage, assassins, bruisers or tanks are in a bad state they don't get picked; other characters take their roles - mages and assassins being interchangeable for mid while tanks, bruisers, assassins and an occasional mage getting top and jungle. But when ADC's are in a "terrible spot"? Still mandatory, except for an occasional Ziggs bot - and even with him you probably have an ADC top, mid or jungle anyway. Honestly, I think ADC's are only considered "good" by their mains when they are in top picks for every role except support.
Skorch (NA)
: Can we stop referring to every champ that gets buffed as favoritism?
You really can't say Lee isn't being favorized when it has been openly stated by Riot that he is. For other champions - excluding those in line for a full scale rework - I agree.
: My problem with Lee is that he has a lot of decision making, but anything he decides to do will ALWAYS be on his terms. He wants to fight you? He can do that whenever he'd like with his Q, ward hopping or dashing to minions. He starts losing the fight? He just kicks you away and retreats, or lurks outside of your range to pick another engage and finishes you off.
A hundred times this. Riot talks about how they want their champions to feel interactive - and Lee is anything but. You don't play against Lee. Lee plays against you however the hell he wants, and maybe - just maybe if he fucks up you get a say in the matter. And he still has 3 ways to disengage, so said fuckup has to be beyond colossal.
Aimléss (NA)
: About the Lux Buff...
Remember when they massively increased early cooldowns on several champions' ultimates because they considered it toxic to get killed by an ultimate and have that ultimate off CD and ready to kill you again when you get back to lane? So can anyone explain me the logic in this buff? Lux doesn't need buffs, and even if she did that buff shouldn't be something openly stated toxic by people who make this game.
: Soraka doesn't feel right anymore
Riot: "We want Soraka to interact more with her opponents and be less of a healbot." *Proceeds to massively increase the risk and reduce the reward of landing Q while removing any skill factor it had while doubling early W cool down essentially forcing her into maxing it first* Everyone: "Soraka is a toxic champion who provides a passive, non-interactive lane experience." Well no fucking shit. Grade A logic right there. I don't get what was wrong with her kit when she was first reworked. Her W costed more, meaning that you couldn't jut spam it but Q healed more if you land it on several champions and also had that sweet spot which was very rewarding to hit. I felt incentivised to build AP and actually play with my opponents instead of standing slightly behind my ADC and pressing W every once in a while. Not as much now my Q does piss poor damage, offers no rewards for skillful play while having increased risk AND me being forced into maxing W - leaving it's already terrible power even worse.
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Ulquiorra995

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