Rioter Comments
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Rioter Comments
Barkley (NA)
: I'm adapting my play because I have to, not because I want to.
Amen. There is a reason why this post and my recent post saying a very similar thing are #1 and #2 on the boards right now. It is true and needs to change. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EhM9Lmbh-why-safe-league-players-will-never-climb-and-why-feeders-determine-94-of-games
: Wow, I really can't believe so many people are upvoting this and jumping on the train here. **Your data is from silver league, and ridiculously incomplete. We can't draw any conclusions here about anything.** I really don't mean to be a jerk, but this is just a long winded post about being hard stuck. You can get better, you can climb. First step to climbing? Admitting you aren't good. Your post season report may say you've done 100 things Diamond level, but guess what? If you were Dia level, you'd be diamond. And you mention playing safe, and a 3.0 KDA. I'm curious what your kill participation is? Actual objective participation? How often were you where you were supposed to be? I mean for all we know, you're version of "playing it safe" is backing out of 5 fight. 3 of them could've been a good choice, 2 of them you could've won. But, we don't know that, because this amount of data misses so much. There are just so many factors missing in this entire post. I just don't get how people are taking it seriously. Personally, I'm not good, and I can't really give out pointers because I'm not really even above your league. I can however say that "Playing it safe" will still allow you to climb. The difference though, is knowing when to play it safe, and knowing when to capitalize.
Thanks for your comments. If you read the last paragraph of the post, I state that my findings are subjective and are not all-encompassing. Also, this was not meant to be a rant about be stuck. Finally, my kill participation is over 70% because I play roam heavy midlaners.
: Interesting post. That said, I think there are some major flaws in your scientific method: >1) Play 50 ranked games in silver 1/silver 2 and mark subjectively whether or not I felt like they were "competitive". >2) For those 50 ranked games, was there a player on either team that 7 kills in 10 or less minutes (we will call this fed). * For one thing, 50 ranked games is an extremely small sample size. I know it doesn't sound small but players who binge/play a ton of ranked can hit some pretty absurd games per season. It'll also rise higher the further up you get, as you're required to play to avoid decay. * Subjective markers are a bad indication of your main point. Instead, you should/should have opt(ed) for an indicator. Say a surrender at 20 after an overwhelming loss or a game timer that is under 25 minutes. Not saying this is key but it could be a measureable example of a game that's easy to mark as competitive/not competitive. * "Silver 1/2. I don't want to harp on this point too much but you should opt to have a spread across the board. This just tells me that in your games in Silver 1/2, one singular player could cause the rise/fall of a team. As a counter point, I could argue that this isn't showing that the game is snowbally but that there is a large amount of smurfs or players who troll Silver games. I don't have proof, but it could be an explanation. I still think this is a great post and that you should delve deeper in. For the future: * Use a larger sample size than just yourself and 50 games. Maybe aim for 100 (I know, it's a lot) and co-check those stats with others. * Expand your rank scale. In doing so, you might find major and important things about the state of the game rank-by-rank. * Take account not just for "feeding" but trolling. See how many games are lost by someone intentionally throwing, because that might tell more about the state of behavior than the state of the game. * Use a more quantifiable measure. Talk with others, see what the general consensus of a "lost game" is to people or one with overwhelming odds. Good luck and I do hope you expand this!
Thanks for the feedback! I would love to do a more in-depth analysis when i have time here!
: Really well thought out and good analysis. I will say I am not sure 50 games is large enough sample size, but I would be really interested in doing a similar analysis on riot provided data. Does anyone have the address to riot's api?
Yes, does Riot have an api for League? I am pretty fluent in Python and would love to take a whack at some in-depth statistical analysis.
Tempist (NA)
: Great analysis. It's nice to see what everyone feels - namely that it's usually the worst player on your team that determines the outcome, and not the best - described with actual numbers and facts to back it up. Maybe post this on the main subreddit as well? With a little luck you can hopefully hit the front page. ;) But regardless, you have my thanks for this post.
: Yup, particularly at low ELO, I would state that playing safe and never feeding is sufficient to climb, without needing to try to actually go as far as actively trying to be a 1 person super star carry. As you climb, what playing "safe" means while still winning requires will get increasingly unsafe looking, but is mostly still "safe" when done right. So deep in the depths of bronze 5, you can be "safe" by wandering around in your base figuring out what buttons do, and potentially win as opponents try to kill the tower without minions, die to minions/tower shots, and inadvertently create a pushing wave so minions win the game for the functionally AFK "safe" player. A little higher up, you can be "safe" as you just chill under your tower and last hit, as the wannabe hard carries try to force plays (but inevitably screw it up since it's low elo) so you slowly get fed and just refuse to die unless they commit tons of resources to killing you, which over lots of games will be punished more often than not by teammates. At the peaks of challenger, you can be "safe" as you flash forward over an enemy skillshot and all in under their tower, since you're a challenger god who knows exactly your damage output and where the other enemy champs are, so what looks super risky is actually a calculated "safe" play since you *know* you'll survive, even if it looks like blind stupidity that ended in luck to most mortals. The issue is people are often keen to push themselves to the far limits of "safe" (as in the challenger case) and generally overshoot, and then end up feeding themselves. Such players may often actually be successful in their insanity hard carry plays sometimes and get some impressive score lines and then grumble about teammates when they don't climb, but if their hard carry plays crumble miserably half the time so they end up feeding in the other half, it won't take them far. (It's not uncommon to see people post links to games where they're like 20/2/10 in a silver game and says its proof of elo hell, but then you dig a little deeper and see they also have other games where they're like 2/12/5.)
MysticMan I agree. This might be personal bias and preference, but I hate people who play the game like that. LoL is a 5-man team game for a reason. Dying over 10 times in any ranked game (outside of bronze) is never a good thing for your team. However, Crede777 I would argue that this does not even out. With such high volatility it is way more likely that you just get lucky and go on a win streak and climb from that, compared to the games being flattening over time. In addition, why would Riot want there motto to be, "play 1000 games so that eventually your skill will overcome all of the fed Yasuo's and feeding Teemo's and you will climb out of silver - hopefully you don't quit before then because you are tilted by all of the meta changes, the whirlwind of feeders, and the generally lower skill level that you are playing at". In my opinion, it should be, "as you develop a higher level of skill at the game and consistently perform, you climb until you are no longer consistently performing at the level of the average player in your tier." The fact is the "it will even itself out strategy" just plain doesn't work. Again i reference you to my statistics that average that of a Diamond player and my 68% win rate on Lux (over 100 games) last season, as well as the 1000s of other disgruntled players that are stuck in Silver/Gold. In hasn't evened out plain and simple. I'm not complaining, I love this game, I am just trying to clearly state a problem that exists.
: This is the most legit "game is broken" post I've seen in quite a while. Great analysis and solid reasoning. +1 I agree 100% And no I'm not being sarcastic.
: Well also because of the low elo many less players actually know how to efficiently and effectively play around a fed champion. If more people knew how to do that, and how to slow down and stabilize a game, your comeback potential would go up greatly. Just some food for thought. It is very difficult to play against a fed champion, but I think a lot of games just have to do with mentality. There's a fed enemy on the team and everyone just gives up and blames or flames. If people were more forgiving of mistakes and learned how to win the game outside of kills, then any elo would be much easier to climb. So much goes into a game of league of legends, and a few of the rules change based on the meta. I'm sure if you ever talked to a pro about the problems you have with league they would tell you that you are doing so much wrong or that it's more than just the problem you're thinking of. Just a thought though. I do agree with much of what you said. A lot of the game does seem unbalanced, but I'm hoping that once LCS starts there will be a more structured meta to go off of. That way there's not just a bunch of rng and unpredictable shit that happens.
I agree, I do hope a pro meta starts stabilizing things, though I am not sure if that is always the most reliable way to balance LoL. Like you said, pro's have a mindset that works around a lot of the problems that exist in lower elo (rallying around a losing lane, vision that prevents continual roaming, etc). Sadly, a lot of these problems can't be overcome unless you are in a 5-man team like the pros - and since 95% of LoL players play in bronze-gold solo/duo it will probably still be a problem.
: Why the players of League are most notably upset at the developers
I agree. Please see my new post that argues many of the same things: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EhM9Lmbh-why-safe-league-players-will-never-climb-and-why-feeders-determine-94-of-games
Rioter Comments
: Replays are Live in the New Client!: FAQ & Pro-Tips
Do replays get saved on your computer when you download them so they don't disappear with the next patch? If so where? Thanks!
: Creating a team for a organized low elo league!
Silver III Mid Morgana, Lux, Galio, Cho, Veigar Pros: I don't feed, great map awareness, great at peeling for adc, great awareness of limits of champions Cons: Rarely carry or snowball hard in lane (more of a roamer while playing safe in lane) Salt and Light1
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Xonra (NA)
: HEADS UP: DC Issue threads being removed?
What the heck, mine was just deleted too. They don't want to fes up to their mistakes.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mysticman89,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=fbhddWAA,comment-id=0000000000000002,timestamp=2016-03-28T03:36:16.519+0000) > > Do all the lines you record typically make it into the final cut (i.e. all the decisions on what to include are done at an earlier stage), or do you have a secret stash of unused lines for various champs on a hard drive somewhere? We normally cut a few lines in the process if we feel as a team that they aren't up to par with the fantasy we are trying to create with the skin or if they just plain aren't working in game. I'm a firm advocate of quality over quantity to make a better skin. The time they are in production that they get cut changes from skin to skin. Sometimes they are cut in the script phase (narrative is great about giving a really clean script) Sometimes they are cut during recording, sometimes even after I've done processing on the VO. Alternatively, we sometimes add lines on the fly (i.e. Sion "Hype train" pentakill line) because we think they think they will add to what we are trying to create. Ultimately the goal is to create something kickass you all will enjoy playing that expands on the character.
VONDERHAMZ, can you get someone to look at the NA servers???? There are DC's all over the place. I just lost a ton of LP.
: I'm finding it harder and harder to stay interested in League in 6.2
I just don't understand why Riot hasn't commented on this post yet.
: If I wanted a crappy short game easy mode MOBA I would play HoTS. I played LoL because I wanted longer more complex games. I am not enjoying this season either.
: I'm finding it harder and harder to stay interested in League in 6.2
I actually completely agree with this post. I am surprised a Red hasn't jumped on yet with all of the popularity this post has. Maybe they actually have no response. No doubt League is going downhill.
: Need some Varus help
I would also like some advice on a bot lane Varus build.
Balthid (NA)
: Guys relax. Ranked team doesnt unlock until you do your ten placement games. I can play ranked 5's right now as soon as i finished them
That hasn't been the case in the past though. You never had to be ranked to play on a ranked team. At least i think...
: Ranked teams are not coming back during Season 6, though I think Rito said they were looking at ways to integrate teams into the dynamic queue. I'd have to re-read Lyte's post, which I don't feel like doing atm. I don't really know how the dynamic queue works since I don't have any league friends, but the gold players may be able to invite both the plat and the silvers. If not, you're out of luck this season :(
I hope this isn't the case...I feel like Riot would not want to limit the options for its players. Plus ranked teams is what League is all about. You don't have solo queue tournaments or pro seasons. You have teams. I just want to be able to play League with my friends.
Rioter Comments
: Hey guys, we've tracked down a cause of this bug and are working like mad to get it hotfixed out as soon as possible. We are testing a fix and doing our best to kill this bug with fire. This is a super sucky bug, I'm sorry that this went out {{sticker:zombie-nunu-tears}} EDIT: We've patched out a fix for the bug, please update if you're still running into it!
Also wondering if we will get back lost LP, or new chances at a series if we got hit with this bug. Thanks!
onesc (OCE)
: Champion Select - Unable to Pick and Screen Greyed Out
Same problem. I would like my lost LP back.
Kazaashi (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Salt and Light1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o6LK8z8m,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-17T21:30:13.773+0000) > > So i am Silver 5 and I have been finding it extremely difficult to move up even though I have been winning a ton of my games. I blame the messed up Elo system. Please observe the LP won and lost my last 11 games in order from top to bottom: > L - (-19) > W - (+15) > W - (+17) > W - (+19) > L - (-23) You went on a 3 game winning streak, so the system was unsure about your ranking, therefor you get more for a win (as evidenced by the increasing LP from the wins) and lose more for a loss. > W - (+15) > L - (-23) Given your 30W 59L, the system is pretty unsure if your win streak was luck or a skill increase and since you won 4 and lost 3 of your last 7, it is not confident enough to increase your LP gains, and since you gained more LP from the wins, it keeps the higher LP losses to even things out. > W - (+17) > L - (-19) > W -- (+17) > W - (+14) Not enough wins to show the system that you deserve to climb, so your LP gains and losses have evened out. Basically, for you to climb, you are going to have to bring your Win/Loss Ratio to higher than 50%. By doing that, you will increase your MMR to being equal to or higher than the relative MMR for your rank and then you will be able to climb. It looks like your past 20 games have a 60% winrate, so if you can keep that up, you will repair your MMR in no time and then you will start to see more LP gains and less LP losses. Good luck on the Rift!
Thanks for the realistic advice! This actually helps a lot. I made the mistake of duo queuing too many games early I think.
Rioter Comments
: Silver is overpopulated and Bronze is deserted, this should be addressed before S6 begins
This is a beautiful post and could not agree more. From being in all of the above mentioned leagues and Gold, Silver/Bronze skill level is equal and this should not be the case! Way too many times a person gets lucky and wins 4 of their placement games and get put into Silver and are terrible. I played with people in Silver that finished the game with under 50 cs as an adc and don't even buy trinkets. Here is the main problem: IN A 5 PERSON TEAM, ONE PLAYER SHOULD NOT BE AT SUCH A LOWER SKILL LEVEL THAT THEY ALONE THROW THE GAME FOR YOUR TEAM. Yet this happened all the time to me. Players that should unquestionably be in Bronze throw an entire game, not because they are having a bad game Riot, no, because of things like NOT KNOWING WHAT A WARD IS. Please fix the ranking system. ACTUALLY MY THE PLAYER DISTRIBUTION IN A PYRAMID SHAPE.

Unstable Unicorn

Level 98 (NA)
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