Kei143 (NA)
: Would a team of toxic diamonds win over a team of positive golds in tournament setting in a best of 1 or even best of 5? With a very high probability, yes. Now that we've gotten your stupid tournament example out of the way, let's get on the real stuff. --- --- --- I've lost plenty of close games because of the toxic guy was being a keyboard warrior in the middle of nowhere, and suddenly got picked off and we lost. I've also lost plenty of games that were winnable because some toxic dude decided he would deem the whole game over and refused to participate in fights / objectives. Would those games be easier if I was better at the game? Absolutley yes. I am where I am because of my overall skill level. Would there be more games I would have won without toxicity? Sure. It'll probably contribute to 7%-10% change in WR. Am I still a silver 2 player in skill? Yes. Am I still supposed to plateau on silver2 even without the toxicity? Probably yes, though it may will take me pass silver1 promos if I'm lucky, but not enough to take me to gold. But if I was silver1 level and I'm stuck at 60-Promos , so close to hitting my goal of goal, then I'll take every little edge I can to hit that goal. That might even mean I learn META champs instead of being a largely 1 trick zyra. But chances are I'll drop LP when I play champs I'm unfamiliar with. Anyhow, Would having toxics in my team contribute to a higher loss rate over time, and we're talking over 100s of games? With a high probability, yes.
I respect you, and people like you actually deserve to be listened . Listen dude I'm just so sick and tired of browsing through this boards and seeing people literally type "gold positive players can win vs diamond toxic players" Shit like that triggers me so much, if you can atleast accept that toxicity doesn't affect that much and you agree that a better player would have won games in your position even if your entire team was toxic, you're worth discussing. Anyways my point is that toxic players shouldn't be banned because it literally makes no sense to ban dedicated players, and even though we don't have stats , even though ppl like the djinn claim they do, I'm pretty sure we both can agree that toxic players on AVERAGE are more DEDICATED and are more LIKELY to create NEW accounts when they get banned and reclimbing the ladder and ruining games for other people in lower elo.
: well a group of golds vs a group of diamonds we are talking about a big difference in skill level. that is the main thing that reflects in wining or losing. so even if the diamonds are toxic they are still more skilled. now if you take a group of gold vs gold a team who works together and arent toxic vs a team that does the exact opposite over a series of games the team that works together and arent toxic is most likely to win majority of the time.
Ok? but you don't understand my point, PEOPLE ACTUALLY SAID THEY THINK THE GOLD PLAYERS CAN WIN VS THE DIAMOND BECAUSE DIAMONDS ARE TOXIC LET ME LINK YOU ONE DIRECTLY https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/8LE946Ut-serious-question?comment=0010 PEOPLE LIKE THAT ARE BRAINWASHED INTO BELIEVING TOXICITY DOES THAT I PROMISE YOU THATS WHY IM SO EMOTIONAL ABOUT THIS
: >I already pretty much implied that I dont think toxicity affects games at all. Yet you implied that you believe toxicity does affect games, at least a little. >it goes to show how brainwashed this community is actually thinking toxicity affects **that much** that gold players will win vs toxic diamond players >im just pushing a point so people can realize that toxicity does not matter when it comes to winning\losing **as much** as these people think
Because there's always a 0.01% chance and just to not be literal im avoiding all you kids who want to be literal so I'm giving the 0.01% chance. Anyways why are you dodging the point of the statement though, if you were good you would have carried so why are you blaming toxicity for affecting your outcome?
: You're dodging the question.
Because I completely disagree. I already pretty much implied that I dont think toxicity affects games at all.
: well being toxic dont help win games. so why not just stop being toxic ?
I made a thread yesterday asking the community to pick weather gold players that are positive vs toxic players that are diamond and majority actually think that the gold players have a better chance, it goes to show how brainwashed this community is actually thinking toxicity affects that much that gold players will win vs toxic diamond players its actually pathetic im just pushing a point so people can realize that toxicity does not matter when it comes to winning\losing as much as these people think
Rioter Comments
: I will answer a different question than the one you asked. > If there were a giant money tournament, and I was going to bet on which team would win, would I bet on a full team of confirmed toxic diamond+ players (at least two perma'd accounts) or would I bet on a full team of confirmed pleasant players (no punishments ever, less than 3 valid reports per year as confirmed by Riot) who are gold? I would bet on the toxic players to win. Before you say, "gotcha", let me explain. The toxic players WOULD NOT ENGAGE IN TOXICITY during the tournament. They would really want to win, and not just pretend that it is their goal. They would not ever int to "punish" a teammates misplay. They would not even ? ping their teammates, as small as that is. They would not fake an engage to bait a teammate into diving. They would focus chat almost exclusively on objectives. They would not pester their teammates to surrender. So, what does this say about toxicity? This would say that even the confirmed toxic players KNOW that toxicity hurts your win chances. They only act in that manner when their fragile emotions override their desire to win.
But I can literally just tell you that toxic players are only toxic when losing, atleast the majority of them obviously there are a few people who get mad over a blue buff. But you can't deny that generally toxic players only are toxic when losing
: Unless the tournament says you have to have 1 member of the team ranked below plat then they probably don't want me on the team.
please answer the question, would you rather have 5 Negative diamond players on a team to win a tournament or 5 positive gold players stop making useless random comments its a simple question
: Unless I'm high plat or low diamond, the diamond team prpbably isn't going to have me on their team.
answer the question lol
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=VALUABLE PLAYER,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=tcd28Zfa,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-10-09T19:13:40.218+0000)Why is league the only game this applies to then? You don't see any other games with a mmr system working the same, look at chess for example, it'd be ridiculous to even acknowledge a sub 2000 elo player words because they just don't simply know the game Chess is almost exclusively a mental game, with none of the reflexes, timings, etc. that *League* requires. A player with great knowledge of *League* but poor reflexes is going to be hard limited in a way he/she would not be in chess. Also, if you say "You're sub 2000 MMR in chess so in addition to simply not responding to you I'm also going to tell you flat out that I refuse to acknowledge you as someone with a perspective," *then you're still being a dick.*
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=tcd28Zfa,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-10-09T19:17:20.188+0000) > > Chess is almost exclusively a mental game, with none of the reflexes, timings, etc. that *League* requires. A player with great knowledge of *League* but poor reflexes is going to be hard limited in a way he/she would not be in chess. > > Also, if you say "You're sub 2000 MMR in chess so in addition to simply not responding to you I'm also going to tell you flat out that I refuse to acknowledge you as someone with a perspective," *then you're still being a dick.* So you agree that in chess, a 1300 elo player cannot argue vs a 2000 or higher elo player correct? I just want to know your stance on this
: He hasn't posted in a long time, but Hashinshin was notorious for posting rants about how x was broken that completely missed the mark (lose lane to x = x is broken). High elo doesn't make you automatically right. At the same time, being in elo hell doesn't make you automatically wrong. A champion that trashes low elo players deserves complaints, even if high elo players can handle it. There are elo players with good mechanics and terrible knowledge, and there are low elo players with decent knowledge but terrible mechanics.
> [{quoted}](name=notFREEfood,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=tcd28Zfa,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-10-09T19:21:15.625+0000) > > He hasn't posted in a long time, but Hashinshin was notorious for posting rants about how x was broken that completely missed the mark (lose lane to x = x is broken). High elo doesn't make you automatically right. > > At the same time, being in elo hell doesn't make you automatically wrong. A champion that trashes low elo players deserves complaints, even if high elo players can handle it. > > There are elo players with good mechanics and terrible knowledge, and there are low elo players with decent knowledge but terrible mechanics. But it's impossible to have great decision making and such terrible mechanics that you're bronze 5, because both decision making and mechanics work together it's not just mutually exclusive, and this is where a lot of people tend to disagree, but you need to have some mechanics to understand the game because you cant just simply watch a game and learn it without knowing the little and positional advantage you gain
: Because, quite simply, rank is not a reliable indicator of ability to contribute to a discussion, theoretical knowledge, actual game knowledge, game design knowledge, balance knowledge, pro scene knowledge, or pretty much anything *League* related except actual ability to win games. There is a correlation in many cases, but it is not a strong enough correlation that it should be used as a substitute for actual discussion. Plus, frankly, people tend to be fucking rude about it. I have no personal issue with someone going "You'd think that, yeah, and it may be like that in a bunch of MMRs, or even in theory, but currently in Diamond that's not really the case." It's another issue if they say "Ha. A silver trying to contribute." And the latter is significantly more common on the boards.
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=tcd28Zfa,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-10-09T19:08:07.691+0000) > > Because, quite simply, rank is not a reliable indicator of ability to contribute to a discussion, theoretical knowledge, actual game knowledge, game design knowledge, balance knowledge, pro scene knowledge, or pretty much anything *League* related except actual ability to win games. > > There is a correlation in many cases, but it is not a strong enough correlation that it should be used as a substitute for actual discussion. > > Plus, frankly, people tend to be fucking rude about it. I have no personal issue with someone going "You'd think that, yeah, and it may be like that in a bunch of MMRs, or even in theory, but currently in Diamond that's not really the case." It's another issue if they say "Ha. A silver trying to contribute." And the latter is significantly more common on the boards. Why is league the only game this applies to then? You don't see any other games with a mmr system working the same, look at chess for example, it'd be ridiculous to even acknowledge a sub 2000 elo player words because they just don't simply know the game I dont know how it is considered rank shaming when elo system is literally telling you that the player is not efficient\ smart enough
Rioter Comments
: > Now I love how you shifted the topic, No? I answered your question, and then told you that your question is pointless because Rank doesn't matter. If anything, _you_ were the one who shifted the topic this time. > Toxic players on AVERAGE want to win more games and care more about winning than losing then your non toxic player. This statement comes without any evidence to back it up. Or, is the only evidence the supposition that, toxic players are toxic because losing makes them flame? Or some other wording like that? This entire point is basically just "toxics want to win, non-toxics don't care". Here's a counterargument; Non-toxics want to win, but are more mature and know that they're not going to win every game, as opposed to toxic players who throw a tantrum when things don't go their way. > Some proof, I don't have time to look up the sources but if you dare challenge me I will look it up and cite all of it as long as you agree your wrong. > > Uzi, high korean solo queue, imaqtpie, wildturtle, doublelift all said on video \ indirectly said that toxicity correlates with region strength and they think that competition is fueled from toxicity which is also fueled from motivation to wanting to improve > > Now you might deny that logic behind it, but you cannot say that their word is less important than yours as they are high rated on a video game and you are not. Their word is no more important than mine, regardless of their Rank. They may have more skill than me in the game, but that doesn't make them more qualified to speak on the subject of player behavior, toxicity, or competition than I am. Competition is not fueled by toxicity, and toxicity is not fueled by wanting to improve. Competition is fueled by the desire to perform and show other people your ability, compared to other people. It's about showing who's better, not who can shout the loudest and spew the most insults and swears without breaking their lungs. Wanting to improve does not breed toxicity. How the hell anyone could figure that is beyond me. Wanting to improve leads to people _looking for ways to improve_. I've said it dozens of times before; **_Toxicity is not an inherent part of competition. It is the result of the expectation of mutual respect and good sportsmanship._** Toxicity comes from people who are immature and decide to deny people respect. And, here's a more reliable source of information than a handful of random pro players: History. Competition is meant for people to come together and display their skills, and show who is the most skilled about them in the spirit of good fun. This has been the case all the way back since the Olympic Games, and doubtless even further. If people in the Olympic Games can get on just fine without railing at each other over small shit, we can do just the same today. TL;DR, you can invest as much as you want in the words of pro players, but don't expect others to do the same. I personally don't take them as credible for talking about toxicity and behavior. They may be great at the game, but that doesn't mean they're just as great at discussing behavior and toxicity. > tldr; being toxic means you care more about winning therefore to casuals they cant comprehend this logic so they say "omg so toxic omg i lost because of a toxic player" This is a false dichotomy, and, again, it reeks of the unspoken statement "toxics are pros, non-toxics are bads".
There is literally no point in responding to you after you say this "Their word is no more important than mine, regardless of their Rank. They may have more skill than me in the game, but that doesn't make them more qualified to speak on the subject of player behavior, toxicity, or competition than I am." Yes Umbral regent, nice use of the word may in "may have more skill". Stick to bots man
: > tldr; being toxic means you care more about winning therefore to casuals they cant comprehend this logic so they say "omg so toxic omg i lost because of a toxic player" Your assumptions: 1. Being toxic means you care more about _winning_. 2. Casuals cannot comprehend P1...? Well Im just going to basically go against your first assumption. Im sure youre aware that there are toxic players that run down mid or afk, are you sure they are trying to win? Moreover, why do you think being toxic means caring more about winning? Even if a person wants to win very intensely, does that mean that intensity refrains them from saying "Hey keep it up guys, we can still win this", but have to flame and pout? > that toxicity correlates with region strength Correlation =/= Causation > Toxic players on AVERAGE want to win more games and care more about winning than losing then your non toxic player. Again assumption P1. No arguments behind.
Uzi ran it down mid and soft inted you can look up in reddit it actually happened 2 days ago then koreans started to run it down on him yeah you might argue this is irrelevant because its chinese salt \kr salt but at the end of the day running it down mid is just to show that game is usually over and wasting time playing it out, i know this is hard to comprehend being low elo but usually when you're atleast low diamond you can FORESEE the future and know when games are done
: > [{quoted}](name=VALUABLE PLAYER,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TO1YNlJR,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-10-03T20:02:30.995+0000) > > Your comment makes no sense, no offense. > > If you're a good player you can get to diamond within 30 games on a fresh account. > > I'm not understanding you. What's not to understand? I gave an explanation on why you're seeing high ELO people whining about getting banned on the boards. It's not that people of all ranks don't get banned, it's that people of the highest rank, who have felt that they've lost the most in terms of what they accomplished on their accounts, come to the boards to whine about in some futile hope that Riot will unban them. They don't want to make a new account, because they want the stuff on their old account. Making new accounts _is the entire thing they are trying to avoid._
"but also the hours to get to their higher rankings - so they of course feel especially indignant and entitled. " unnecessary comment and made no sense which is why I said that. Based on your opgg and history, you aren't a competitive person and you don't know how the game works and competition works after being bronze-silver for 3 years. Any decent \ smart individual will be atleast gold in any game within 3 months of playing
: The answer is yes, it is a coincidence. And further, it's pointless to care about the supposed point that "banned players are usually a higher rank than the people who tell them that their punishment was justified", because when it comes to Player Behavior, Rank literally doesn't matter.
Now I love how you shifted the topic, and you claim it is a coincidence. Here is my view, and if you deny this then you're not being honest. Toxic players on AVERAGE want to win more games and care more about winning than losing then your non toxic player. Some proof, I don't have time to look up the sources but if you dare challenge me I will look it up and cite all of it as long as you agree your wrong. Uzi, high korean solo queue, imaqtpie, wildturtle, doublelift all said on video \ indirectly said that toxicity correlates with region strength and they think that competition is fueled from toxicity which is also fueled from motivation to wanting to improve Now you might deny that logic behind it, but you cannot say that their word is less important than yours as they are high rated on a video game and you are not. tldr; being toxic means you care more about winning therefore to casuals they cant comprehend this logic so they say "omg so toxic omg i lost because of a toxic player"
: You're only seeing higher ELO people complain about being banned on the boards because those people felt that they have lost the most from their ban, and thus feel a need to bring their grievances to Riot. They've not only lost whatever money they've spent in the game, but also the hours to get to their higher rankings - so they of course feel especially indignant and entitled. Sure, there are some lower ELO people too, but they are fewer because they don't feel the need to vent since they've not invested as much time and energy rising through the ranks. And it doesn't matter what rank the people are who respond to them, that's irrelevant. Your ranking does not protect you or give you freedoms to be an asshole to people.
Your comment makes no sense, no offense. If you're a good player you can get to diamond within 30 games on a fresh account. I'm not understanding you.
Rioter Comments
: Yes because eventually that toxic player realizes that they're wasting time and money by buying/leveling accounts.
People who get banned usually view league as a hobby\ and accounts can last up to 1-2 months so 15-30$ a month for a hobby isn't even that bad if we're talking realistically. I'm not here defending "toxic players" I'm just showing some points. People spend more then 100$ on other hobby's a month
Rioter Comments
: >Keep in mind though that the players I was talking with had racial slurs in the names. Doesn't really matter, there's no such thing as "this player did this and that and had this and that" when it comes to punishments. It doesn't justify your actions in any way. Your arguing with them is what caused the ban. Plus the score shaming and rank shaming. When you mute them, stop talking about the subject. When someone is flaming you just mute them and then report, there's no point in arguing with them.
Please ignore molt, he's a aram only player, check his opgg. no competitveness xD
: >How do you not get that? why do you have to be such an ignorant person and make such blatant lies This is why you do not get good discussions, I think. You're discounting opposing viewpoints as ignorant and lies, even when simply fact (Riot has stated those things I mentioned). It's hard to take the desire to discuss at face value as a result. I'll leave you to it.
Because again you don't answer my question and you word around it, - about an hour ago Why did you have to include "sometimes it is someone else" and ", but ultimately it's almost always that we, as a team, failed to manage to neutralize the threat in time. " you do realize 99% of the losses is because you didn't know how to carry, YOU ? Is what I asked , and you didn't bother to answer.
: > [{quoted}](name=BIunder,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ttO1TcMj,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-08-12T16:29:12.454+0000)Really? The reason you can say that is because a toxic player would not flame a team that is winning. That probably does figure in a bit, yes, but I doubt it accounts for the entire difference. >Therefore the data is skewed. Then again with your skills and rank I do not expect you to blame yourself for your losses. Instead keep blaming being silver on toxicity. I don't find Silver toxic at all, nor do I usually blame anyone for losses. Sometimes it's me having a bad game, sometimes it is someone else, but ultimately it's almost always that we, as a team, failed to manage to neutralize the threat in time. It happens, and nobody needs to be raked over the coals for it. Doing so benefits no one.
Why did you have to include "sometimes it is someone else" and ", but ultimately it's almost always that we, as a team, failed to manage to neutralize the threat in time. " you do realize 99% of the losses is because you didn't know how to carry, YOU ? How do you not get that? why do you have to be such an ignorant person and make such blatant lies, once again, you don't want to have a civil discussion on discord, dodging all my questions and talking around it.
: Dardoch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIzGXt--Ig4
First off , I wonder why dardoch is still in a team!!! and second, he was a real talk person, he didn't keep his emotions hidden because when you're trying to be the best, you have to tell your team whats actually going wrong and not make lies.
: >He won't have any useful conversation anyways AMIRITE? You are correct. But every player permanently muted is one NOT permanently muted player I don't have on my team. In short, it reduces my odds of getting a helpful, communicative teammate. >Well, aren't you a smart economics major, you really think a company doesn't want money! Given that Riot has explicitly, on several occasions, said they do not want toxic players playing their game, I would say that the people repeating these statements are correct, yes. >Toxicity makes you lose games This is also supported by data Riot has, as announced in a video they made a few years ago.
I ignored your first 2 comments because they're just ignorant and your ignoring my post entirely, i clearly stated that if they're being toxic, and you think toxic players don't benefit the team, muting them is better then letting them talk, by your logic, so why would you get mad that you have to mute them? Also, to your last comment, when you're winning, why would anyone be toxic? the data is skewed and therefor is trash.
: > "Riot doesn't want toxic players in there game" > Well, aren't you a smart economics major, you really think a company doesn't want money! You are at a restaurant. There's a guest being incredibly obnoxious, going over to people's tables and harassing them, being loud, etc. The restaurant staff does nothing about him. How likely are you to go back to that restaurant? The atmosphere that toxic players causes Riot to lose more customers than banning a single toxic player does. If they get the point of them permabanning you, it's a sign saying "Don't come back, we don't want you here." > "Toxicity makes you lose games" > You don't even play ranked, looking at you Molt, toxicity has no effects on winning\losing. It's 100% about skill So you're saying that someone constantly berating teammates for every little mistake, being insulting and rude, all that makes you play better? Why then have pro teams consistently released players because of poor attitude and behavior? Acting like a dick makes it harder for people to actually work together.
Okay, name one person that got kicked for purely having poor attittude. and don't say c9, they got benched for lack of performance and not caring, not about bad "BEHAVIOR". And , to answer your question, you dont need your team to win games, it's 100% about skill, once again.
Rioter Comments
: [Idea] Additions to Punishment System - with sources!
Oh god no, stop making this club penguin. Just mute the toxic player. Stop being such a baby
Aneirin (OCE)
: ***
low-key rank shaming? then you call me a rank shamer? hypocrite ?
: > ...but now a single chat restriction can make you ineligible due to how long it takes to level up your honor. I've seen a fair enough blend of people talking about how quickly/slowly they've made their way back to Honor Level 2 that I can say this with confidence: If someone is taking a long time to go back up to Honor Level 2..._They_ are the problem, not the system. We already know that Honor Progress can be slowed/negatively impacted by valid reports, whether or not those reports result in a punishment. And we also know that there are people who can level back up to Honor 2 in a matter of weeks. That information tells me that if someone is having trouble climbing back to Honor 2, then _they're still not being honorable._ They're either not showing honorable behavior, or they're showing dishonorable behavior that's slowing their progress.
The fact that you think the honor system is about being a honorable and nice person is a joke, majority of the community just honors the carry lmfao
: Rank shaming is harassment. There is no need for it. Furthermore because people are matched with people with similar skill levels. The person doing the rank shaming is just as bad as the person he is harassing.
most of the times, yes, sure, but you do realize smurfs are a thing right?
: You're more than welcome to take note of a rank, and ignore a person as you see fit if it benefits you. What you cannot do, is take another person's rank and publicise it as a means to discredit them or turn your teammates against them. It's not helpful.
okay, but the thing is , the djinn literally stated that he knows the game at a high level but he just cant apply it in solo queue, this is why rank shaming should be allowed, why does he say such nonsense?
: >Is this really worthy of a chat restriction?? Yes. You were insulting and rank-shaming your teammates. > ProudDadofSion: I have 4 kills retard > ProudDadofSion: she thinks she's good > ProudDadofSion: when you're silver 4 and on a champ with no mana > ProudDadofSion: because you can't cs for crap > ProudDadofSion: go through the tunnel you mokey > ProudDadofSion: and jhin just really bad
Once again The Djinn, rank shaming is not a bad thing, it lets you see the individuals rank and you can just ignore his perspective because it literally does not matter when it comes to competition.
: A bronze support main can tell a diamond top lane main how supporting works. It's simple as that, that not everyone can know everything about the game. One tricking makes the difference even more apparent because someone who only played let's say Riven from bronze to diamond will hav little to no idea about champions outside of how they relate to Riven.
> [{quoted}](name=AnAggravatedPimp,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NiyKk1Ez,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-07T11:46:52.565+0000) > > A bronze support main can tell a diamond top lane main how supporting works. It's simple as that, that not everyone can know everything about the game. One tricking makes the difference even more apparent because someone who only played let's say Riven from bronze to diamond will hav little to no idea about champions outside of how they relate to Riven. In order to get to diamond, you need to know the basics of the game, a bronze player support main cannot know the basics, bronze is literally worse then average if you think about it logically, the diamond riven player, while yes if played on support role in a diamond game will be smashed, he will have more knowledge then a bronze support main, he would perform better in bronze elo playing support vs your average support main in bronze. Agree or disagree?
Pyrosan (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=VALUABLE PLAYER,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NiyKk1Ez,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-08-07T11:39:50.578+0000) > > False, he was never gold 1, he was always a diamond level solo queue player, as of now he's platinum, but he's been diamond. Nick De Cesare ‏ @LSXYZ9 Oh SKT's coach is almost d1 now, he used to be gold. He was Gold 1 when he was employed for coach, he then progressed significantly lol
> [{quoted}](name=Pyromethius,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NiyKk1Ez,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-08-07T11:43:20.028+0000) > > Nick De Cesare > ‏ @LSXYZ9 > > Oh SKT's coach is almost d1 now, he used to be gold. > > He was Gold 1 when he was employed for coach, he then progressed significantly lol Okay sure ? Every team needs a coach, but the players definitely knows more then the coach, the coach is just there to keep them updated on the talks they had and not to have high ego and disrespects the teams decision planning into the game. Analysts are different then coach.
: Only talking about your last statement. High plat low diamond have decent mechanics but trash decision making. Silver players have better decision making then them.
> [{quoted}](name=wzxy,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NiyKk1Ez,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-07T11:42:55.373+0000) > > Only talking about your last statement. > > High plat low diamond have decent mechanics but trash decision making. Silver players have better decision making then them. While it might look like so, remember that elo is relative, if the low diamonds and platinums where to play in the silver game, their decision making is a lot better. Relative is the word here.
: > [{quoted}](name=Pyromethius,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NiyKk1Ez,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-07T11:38:33.369+0000) > > SKT's coach was Gold 1. False, he was never gold 1, he was always a diamond level solo queue player, as of now he's platinum, but he's been diamond.
> [{quoted}](name=VALUABLE PLAYER,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NiyKk1Ez,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-08-07T11:39:50.578+0000) > > False, he was never gold 1, he was always a diamond level solo queue player, as of now he's platinum, but he's been diamond. Also, forgot to add in, we don't even know if KKoma talks about gameplay mechanics and such, all we know is that he helps draft the team and is the coach, there's analysts that chip in information.
Pyrosan (NA)
: SKT's coach was Gold 1.
> [{quoted}](name=Pyromethius,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NiyKk1Ez,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-07T11:38:33.369+0000) > > SKT's coach was Gold 1. False, he was never gold 1, he was always a diamond level solo queue player, as of now he's platinum, but he's been diamond.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=VALUABLE PLAYER,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=B8WxnNpi,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-08-06T15:55:09.016+0000)Why is rank shaming bad ? Because it dismisses the other person's perspective entirely just because their number isn't high enough. This isn't conducive to meaningful discussion of even *gameplay*, let alone behavior. Just because you're a mechanically better player doesn't always mean you know more about the game, game design, or game balance, and it *definitely* doesn't mean you necessarily know more about player behavior.
dismissing others perspective can be a good thing, would a programmer take advice from a air conditioner guy ? No. Why do you think it is healthy or even smart for someone that is masters to listen to a gold player give advice? Okay now sure this isn't about player behavior but it makes it seem like you want to branch out and im asking a general question not just necessarily only about PB, its about the whole forum, the fact that rank shaming gets you banned is weird
: So, first off, I'm noticing some low-key rank-shaming in these comments. Let's have everyone cut that out, m'kay? Thanks. -------------------------------------- With regards to why toxicity is bad, it's important to first acknowledge that not *everyone* considers it to be bad, so if you enter the discussion with the idea that it isn't and don't care what others think about it, then you're not going to be able to be convinced. That's fine, but it doesn't mean that the rules will change to adopt your perspective, which is important to keep in mind. Toxicity does a few problematic things. Again, these are things that *most* people find true, but not *all*. * It makes many people feel unwelcome. * It makes people not comfortable spending time playing *League*. * It gives people bad in-game experiences, and creates negative associations. * It tilts people. * It makes people stop caring about playing as a team. All of these things are opposed to what Riot stands for as far as their community goes, and these are all things that the bulk of the community agrees are bad to have in the community.
Why is rank shaming bad ? Rank tells you how skilled the individual is, if you're bronze-gold , your argument heavily falls in favor of the higher ranked, because of more experience, would you take advice from lebron james or a middle school basketball player? Rank does matter.
: Okay, there are some things that should be clarified here. Mostly if you flame on somebody they are already trash (thats why you flame them.) It really does not help the game, but neither does cursing when you hit your pinkie toe, yet we still do it. (Also, if the "harassed" player will not play another game, then it's better for the community.) If you get flamed and you will feel butthurt because of it, then you are a snowflake who cant handly anything. The whole chat thing is an opt-out, if you dont like it, mute, but do not start crying in a corner because your feelings are hurt... (I'm looking at you 'murica) But if you get permanently banned, you cant opt-out from the ban. I hope you understand the minimal difference. Also it's funny you say it ruins the "fun", but ppl like you never consider how braindead trolls ruin the fun too. (TBH only they ruin the fun, since the chat has literally 0 gameplay effect, if you dont like it, you can chose not to see it)
> [{quoted}](name=Ph03n1xb1rd,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=B8WxnNpi,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-08-06T15:24:03.723+0000) > > Okay, there are some things that should be clarified here. > > Mostly if you flame on somebody they are already trash (thats why you flame them.) It really does not help the game, but neither does cursing when you hit your pinkie toe, yet we still do it. (Also, if the "harassed" player will not play another game, then it's better for the community.) > > If you get flamed and you will feel butthurt because of it, then you are a snowflake who cant handly anything. The whole chat thing is an opt-out, if you dont like it, mute, but do not start crying in a corner because your feelings are hurt... (I'm looking at you 'murica) > But if you get permanently banned, you cant opt-out from the ban. I hope you understand the minimal difference. > > Also it's funny you say it ruins the "fun", but ppl like you never consider how braindead trolls ruin the fun too. (TBH only they ruin the fun, since the chat has literally 0 gameplay effect, if you dont like it, you can chose not to see it) 100% agreed brother, there's a reason why pro players say that toxicity in korea and euw is a lot higher then in na, they care more about the game! WHAT A COINCIDENCE BROTHER! Look I get it, if you're a NORMALS\ARAM only player then JUST MUTE THE TOXIC PLAYER. BUT TOXICITY DOES NOT AFFECT UR OUTCOME IN GAMES, ITS 99.99% ABOUT SKILL. ps.. what a coincidence that the only person agreeing with me is platinum atleast
Yatol (NA)
: Because, it doesn't contribute to anything, it makes everyone play worse and eliminates the only reason actually play video games "fun" people can circlejerk about how people are "snowflakes" because they're the one who gets pissy just because someone sucks in some video game, while they the same people will whine about trolls and INT or want to get in a hugbox because they're banned, because they "dindunuffing" Its a video game. people dont login to get shit on.
> [{quoted}](name=Yatol,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=B8WxnNpi,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-06T15:09:38.570+0000) > > Because, it doesn't contribute to anything, it makes everyone play worse and eliminates the only reason actually play video games "fun" > > > people can circlejerk about how people are "snowflakes" because they're the one who gets pissy just because someone sucks in some video game, while they the same people will whine about trolls and INT or want to get in a hugbox because they're banned, because they "dindunuffing" > > Its a video game. people dont login to get shit on. There's a mute button, and don't come here telling me "i was already offended, so muting doesnt solve the problem!" It does, in real life, if someone is harrasing you, you leave and walk away, you can MUTE them. there's no difference and if you permanently ban someone(like me) for example, ill just make a new smurf and get it to diamond in 2 days without dropping games and ruining the ladder for people in silver-d5 because i win 95% of those games .
: Negative attitude makes the target play worse, and just adds to the fire
> [{quoted}](name=Primaquarius,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=B8WxnNpi,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-06T15:05:08.218+0000) > > Negative attitude makes the target play worse, and just adds to the fire Sources? How come I'm d2 and I'm always negative, I'm super negative even if we're 0-1 Coincidence or just luck
Rioter Comments
: Why Should People Get Banned For This
They shouldn't, the people who say this should be punishable if you look up their opgg they're all not active ranked players, and at best they're all below platinum, players who hang in the player behavior boards section are just not competitive players and they don't know that ranked is a totally different environment then normals\arams
Rioter Comments
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=VALUABLE PLAYER,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7ujZfLIm,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-08-04T16:51:56.051+0000) > > So you're telling me toxic players were just toxic in another form? so what does perma banning people do, it just makes them smurf on a level 30 account and reclimb the ladder They tried allowing them to reform, they tried perma muting, they tried lesser punishments, all those methods failed because all the people dead set on being toxic continued to be. A Permaban is them asking you to leave and preferably not return.
Once again, ignoring the problem, Do you really think that players who get permanently banned on average are going to quit? Most players who get permanently banned are usually the ones who care more about winning games, at least from anecdotes, I haven't met a toxic player who was just toxic just for the hell of it .
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