Rioter Comments
: Do like I do in ranked, just play your champ, not the game, but still take objectives.
> [{quoted}](name=Dowwnwind,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=FpcbQBYE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-07T16:08:10.184+0000) > > Do like I do in ranked, just play your champ, not the game, but still take objectives. I just cancer to play this game at this point
Rioter Comments
: Hence why I said that. Or maybe the actual stack amount should be dependent on the cooldown of the skill? Low cooldown skills stack 1 and high cooldowns count for two? That would weaken cass and ryze but still allow for higher cooldown casters to _consider_ conqueror.
> [{quoted}](name=Pierce The Veal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=000d0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-06T18:33:49.389+0000) > > Hence why I said that. > > Or maybe the actual stack amount should be dependent on the cooldown of the skill? Low cooldown skills stack 1 and high cooldowns count for two? That would weaken cass and ryze but still allow for higher cooldown casters to _consider_ conqueror. I would still goes with my version any day where any skill stacks once.
: The issue is a lot of champions simply are not autoattackers. The whole problem was fervor of battle locked out all non-autoattacker from what was essentially THE bruiser keystone. And it’s not actually like mages are able to abuse it. RYZE AND CASSEIOPEIA specifically are the mage abuse cases. Assassins do not make good use of it, by the time they proc it their damage is already dealt. Most mages don’t make good use of it because they’d have to cycle through a whole combo once or twice to actually proc it. Most adcs don’t make good use of it unless they’re very skill based. The issue with the new conqueror is particularly the four you listed and a few others are spectacularly good at proccing it as well and/or keeping it up after it is procced. There is technically an easy solution to this problem: make skills only count as one stack. There is another noteworthy thing to mention here: the four you listed as well as many other abusers WERE ALREADY OVERTUNED before conqueror debuted as it stands. It’s fine to just nerf them, as conqueror, while good, didn’t actually spectacularly buff these champions. It’s the hair that broke the camel’s back: these champs were already overtuned. And it’s also time to admit something else: old conqueror was never good _because_ of the true damage. It was good because of the unmitigated healing (especially for aoe skills). Maybe it’s time to just give up on the unmitigated healing and give it back the usual reduced healing on aoe skills?
> [{quoted}](name=Pierce The Veal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=000d00000000,timestamp=2019-12-06T17:50:42.777+0000) > > The issue is a lot of champions simply are not autoattackers. The whole problem was fervor of battle locked out all non-autoattacker from what was essentially THE bruiser keystone. > > And it’s not actually like mages are able to abuse it. RYZE AND CASSEIOPEIA specifically are the mage abuse cases. > > Assassins do not make good use of it, by the time they proc it their damage is already dealt. Most mages don’t make good use of it because they’d have to cycle through a whole combo once or twice to actually proc it. Most adcs don’t make good use of it unless they’re very skill based. > > The issue with the new conqueror is particularly the four you listed and a few others are spectacularly good at proccing it as well and/or keeping it up after it is procced. > > There is technically an easy solution to this problem: make skills only count as one stack. > > There is another noteworthy thing to mention here: the four you listed as well as many other abusers WERE ALREADY OVERTUNED before conqueror debuted as it stands. It’s fine to just nerf them, as conqueror, while good, didn’t actually spectacularly buff these champions. It’s the hair that broke the camel’s back: these champs were already overtuned. > > > And it’s also time to admit something else: old conqueror was never good _because_ of the true damage. It was good because of the unmitigated healing (especially for aoe skills). Maybe it’s time to just give up on the unmitigated healing and give it back the usual reduced healing on aoe skills? I mean you said, if you wanted to lock ranged champions from using it and make it only stack once why not make skills as well count as one ? I mean after all most of skills on most of champions can put them in range effect, so it should stack one and not damn 2.
JackMcCarry (EUNE)
: So because Urgot is a unique beast you cant nerf keystones he uses? I'll take nerfing 2 Over bearing champions and 1 averege one (and tuninig him accordingly down the line) rather than nerfing no one.
> [{quoted}](name=JackMcCarry,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2019-12-06T18:11:30.658+0000) > > So because Urgot is a unique beast you cant nerf keystones he uses? > I'll take nerfing 2 Over bearing champions and 1 averege one (and tuninig him accordingly down the line) rather than nerfing no one. You seem like you don't understand the post , again i not talking about the rune i talking about how he keep getting indirect nerfs over and over without anything to make it up for him.
: Would you rather your champion abuse it? Because then someone else will complain that their champion can't abuse it either. They can't make runes/items for specific champions because then there wont be any diversity in build paths. Imagine having to only take Aftershock on Jax because the rune was specifically made for him and any other champion that tries to use it is fails to exhibit the same level of performance as Jax. Instead they make general runes for a class of champions or a group of champions with similar characteristics. In S6 after Ryze got the major rework, most Ryze players really didn't have an option that fit his battle-mage style of gameplay. I would often have to take Thunderlord's Decree (which is now Electrocute) or Death Fire's Touch (removed). That version of Ryze gameplay style is completely different than the one now because of the Runes Reforged rune changes. A big issue is people that have a louder voice in the community (ie; Hashinshin) are so dead set on the old runes and how "great" they used to be on several champions. He is so set on trying to re-introduce Fervor of Battle (which is kind of like Conqueror now) and old items that were removed for a purpose. Instead of switching up how he plays, he is playing old strategies/methods in a newer version of League.
> [{quoted}](name=NodirjonSattarov,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=00130000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-06T07:24:45.012+0000) > > Would you rather your champion abuse it? Because then someone else will complain that their champion can't abuse it either. They can't make runes/items for specific champions because then there wont be any diversity in build paths. Imagine having to only take Aftershock on Jax because the rune was specifically made for him and any other champion that tries to use it is fails to exhibit the same level of performance as Jax. Instead they make general runes for a class of champions or a group of champions with similar characteristics. In S6 after Ryze got the major rework, most Ryze players really didn't have an option that fit his battle-mage style of gameplay. I would often have to take Thunderlord's Decree (which is now Electrocute) or Death Fire's Touch (removed). That version of Ryze gameplay style is completely different than the one now because of the Runes Reforged rune changes. A big issue is people that have a louder voice in the community (ie; Hashinshin) are so dead set on the old runes and how "great" they used to be on several champions. He is so set on trying to re-introduce Fervor of Battle (which is kind of like Conqueror now) and old items that were removed for a purpose. Instead of switching up how he plays, he is playing old strategies/methods in a newer version of League. No and my post is direct about my champion not the rune, i care and give a damn about this dumb designed rune. I just want a fix for my champion that his own power move around a dumb rune.
: I believe that Rod of Ages mana refund from damage taken, the healing from mana spent, and Conqueror have good synergy for Ryze and Cass which is why they're doing well. They're seemingly oppressive early on since Catalyst is a quick buy, they don't need to buy AP immediately since they can stack Conqueror. With Catalyst they spend mana, heal, and are refunded mana while taking damage WHILE stacking Conqueror for AP and once stacked obtain an additional 15% healing. Have you tried playing this same way without Catalyst? It's incredibly difficult and you will feel that movement speed from Phase Rush is infinitely better.
> [{quoted}](name=NodirjonSattarov,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=001300000000,timestamp=2019-12-06T06:35:05.199+0000) > > I believe that Rod of Ages mana refund from damage taken, the healing from mana spent, and Conqueror have good synergy for Ryze and Cass which is why they're doing well. They're seemingly oppressive early on since Catalyst is a quick buy, they don't need to buy AP immediately since they can stack Conqueror. With Catalyst they spend mana, heal, and are refunded mana while taking damage WHILE stacking Conqueror for AP and once stacked obtain an additional 15% healing. Have you tried playing this same way without Catalyst? It's incredibly difficult and you will feel that movement speed from Phase Rush is infinitely better. Yet again why my champion get punished on every turn cause there some champions that abuse shit, cause their kit allow them to abuse stuff?
: They're gutting her soon so you can stop crying about her. Any time Rito releases a new champion or rework you people cry, piss, and moan till Rito finally guts them to make them unplayable.
> [{quoted}](name=Bropocolypse,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=saqapExT,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-06T06:36:48.711+0000) > > They're gutting her soon so you can stop crying about her. Any time Rito releases a new champion or rework you people cry, piss, and moan till Rito finally guts them to make them unplayable. Maybe cause people sick of wasting banned on cancer broken kit champions ? maybe cause it not fun to play against them?
Rioter Comments
: Phase Rush out classes Conqueror for both Ryze and Cassiopeia. I have yet to see extraordinary healing values from Conqueror since that seems to be what everyone was complaining about. The only thing that I found useful was that it gave large amount of AP, relative to early game AP values. Fully stacked Conqueror generates 20AP level 1, but healing from it is marginal, since it's 15% of damage dealt and no one really does incredible amounts of damage early on. However, pairing it with Taste of Blood and Ravenous Hunter is what makes it seems really oppressive. In fact, in my games Ravenous Hunter literally out heals Conqueror 5 fold.
> [{quoted}](name=NodirjonSattarov,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2019-12-06T03:38:07.106+0000) > > Phase Rush out classes Conqueror for both Ryze and Cassiopeia. I have yet to see extraordinary healing values from Conqueror since that seems to be what everyone was complaining about. The only thing that I found useful was that it gave large amount of AP, relative to early game AP values. Fully stacked Conqueror generates 20AP level 1, but healing from it is marginal, since it's 15% of damage dealt and no one really does incredible amounts of damage early on. However, pairing it with Taste of Blood and Ravenous Hunter is what makes it seems really oppressive. In fact, in my games Ravenous Hunter literally out heals Conqueror 5 fold. You get the point here anyway but again as you extra AP mixed with heal make it better option
Klique (NA)
: Santa Yorick
> [{quoted}](name=Klique,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=Ld8v3jas,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-05T19:00:39.003+0000) > > Candy cane staff, elves for souls, snow fort for his dark procession, and the Maiden could be a snowman, or a giant elf, or Mrs. Claus Imagine being all of this years without that amazing idea
: Riot doesn't understand their game and will take the easy way out every time. See how many melees are effectively abusing it, yet where are their nerfs when they skyrocketed to 52% winrate?
> [{quoted}](name=WoonStruck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=000d0001,timestamp=2019-12-04T18:54:42.854+0000) > > Riot doesn't understand their game and will take the easy way out every time. > > See how many melees are effectively abusing it, yet where are their nerfs when they skyrocketed to 52% winrate? They understand how to make other useless games and modes
: Eh not so much just mages, moreso just "enhanced abilities and resource manipulation". Applies to everyone, but yeah mostly mana-based mages. Problem is we've had celerity, nimbus cloak and waterwalking for so long that just cutting them doesn't seem like the right choice. They also don't seem to fit into other trees well either.
> [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleepier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=000c000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-04T20:24:16.633+0000) > > Eh not so much just mages, moreso just "enhanced abilities and resource manipulation". Applies to everyone, but yeah mostly mana-based mages. > > Problem is we've had celerity, nimbus cloak and waterwalking for so long that just cutting them doesn't seem like the right choice. They also don't seem to fit into other trees well either. Cause they moved alot of good stuff from that tree, i remember back then was it good tree with things like CDR on ultimate which helped alot of mages to be something special things like Annie, Malz and such
: > [{quoted}](name=Stonemason2121,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-12-04T08:26:13.696+0000) > > how does the rune 'conqueror' fit with precision anyway? ”Improved attacks and sustained damage” Ignore the titles of rune trees, the descriptions are what matters. If anything, Sorcery is the worst tree at doing what it’s supposed to. “Empowered abilities and resource manipulation” Aka the movement speed tree... for some reason. Manaflow Band is quite literally the only resource manipulation rune.
> [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleepier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2019-12-04T12:18:48.102+0000) > > ”Improved attacks and sustained damage” > > Ignore the titles of rune trees, the descriptions are what matters. If anything, Sorcery is the worst tree at doing what it’s supposed to. > > “Empowered abilities and resource manipulation” > > Aka the movement speed tree... for some reason. Manaflow Band is quite literally the only resource manipulation rune. You are right, they should focus on making what meant to be mages rune page to be more powerful for mages and not the other way around.
: Honestly I find it pretty dumb as well. Just because Ryze, Heimerdinger, Casseiopeia, and a few other ranged champions abuse it too well doesn’t mean it should be nerfed for everyone else. The worst part is many of these abusers WERE ALREADY too strong before conqueror. Nerfing conqueror for all ranged champions that might take it is silly when all of the abusers were already problematic champions. The worst part is the nerfed conqueror will actually be worse than old conqueror. Easier to stack, but objectively worse. Why? You ask? Old conqueror healed MORE (because its healing was unaffected by resists) while also increasing your damage via true damage. Maybe we should _JUST_ nerf the major conqueror abusers, see how that goes, _THEN_ consider nerfing conqueror further. As it stands conqueror on most of its users (and not abusers) is something that is niche or has alternatives.
> [{quoted}](name=Pierce The Veal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-12-04T12:32:45.383+0000) > > Honestly I find it pretty dumb as well. > > Just because Ryze, Heimerdinger, Casseiopeia, and a few other ranged champions abuse it too well doesn’t mean it should be nerfed for everyone else. > > The worst part is many of these abusers WERE ALREADY too strong before conqueror. Nerfing conqueror for all ranged champions that might take it is silly when all of the abusers were already problematic champions. > > The worst part is the nerfed conqueror will actually be worse than old conqueror. Easier to stack, but objectively worse. Why? You ask? Old conqueror healed MORE (because its healing was unaffected by resists) while also increasing your damage via true damage. > > Maybe we should _JUST_ nerf the major conqueror abusers, see how that goes, _THEN_ consider nerfing conqueror further. As it stands conqueror on most of its users (and not abusers) is something that is niche or has alternatives. I mean why even make skills able to proc it in first place, like they legit want it to be like old favor of battle yet it about skills. Right cause we want mages and ap assassins / divers to abuse it freely too, like for the love of god stop making everything works for every champion cause some champions meant to not use other things cause it can be overpowered. If it was about putting damage through AA, it would fix alot of problems starting from overtuned {{champion:13}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:82}} etc easy ability to proc to make it actual balanced
: Can't they just make it class specific instead of range specific?
> [{quoted}](name=RadeticDraws,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-12-04T12:54:46.914+0000) > > Can't they just make it class specific instead of range specific? Wish they can and alot of shit would be fixed happen.
: Okay, Let's be realistic. Urgot's ranged auto attacks do not stack faster than Ryze/Cass' 2 second full stack. Not only that, but Ryze/Cass get MS during their stacking while Urgot LOSES MS during his stacking. Urgot isn't weak at all right now, but let's not pretend Cass and Ryze aren't more broken.
> [{quoted}](name=WoonStruck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-12-04T04:34:03.380+0000) > > Okay, Let's be realistic. > > Urgot's ranged auto attacks do not stack faster than Ryze/Cass' 2 second full stack. > > Not only that, but Ryze/Cass get MS during their stacking while Urgot LOSES MS during his stacking. > > Urgot isn't weak at all right now, but let's not pretend Cass and Ryze aren't more broken. I don't know why response to someone who thinks that urgot a ranged champion that have no spamable ability on short cdr can stack faster.
Arammus (EUW)
: yo i dont wanna be that guy, but urgot struggling? thats ONLY because of hyper mobile champs who he cant ever hit. the dude tends to get 200 armor or mr, 3k hp about 200-300 ad and does a big amount of % hp. imo urgot is a fucking beast who can 1v1 pretty much anyone.
> [{quoted}](name=Arammus,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-12-04T01:31:33.359+0000) > > yo i dont wanna be that guy, but urgot struggling? > thats ONLY because of hyper mobile champs who he cant ever hit. > > the dude tends to get 200 armor or mr, 3k hp about 200-300 ad and does a big amount of % hp. > imo urgot is a fucking beast who can 1v1 pretty much anyone. The dude can't stay over 50% winrate with almost near 1% pickrate, yes he is struggling. And ye he is struggling in lane phase till he hit level 11 cause that when his passive kick in, what you talking about a very late game level 16 urgot which is strong but before that where is urgot ? Right dead and useless. Both Kass and Kayle kick their power spike before him.
PB4UAME (NA)
: What I would love to see is one of either two things: 1, classify Urgot as melee, as he isn't actually ranged, plays in melee or very near melee ranged most of the time, shoots the closest target in W so has to be basically in melee half the time, has his E which is delayed, 350 range, and only hits if it comes into melee contact with an opposing champion, and finally, he loses lane to every single actually ranged champion from Jayce to Kennen to Vayne to Teemo. Hell, he actually gets bullied out of CS range against most ranged champs unless he gets his jungler to camp top (good joke this season). 2, Have Urgot be considered melee while Purge is active. Basically the same as above, but there is some control over it. Urgot players using {{item:3085}} to double or triple proc his passive with one auto still can, they just can't do so during Purge.
> [{quoted}](name=PB4UAME,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-12-04T01:15:38.051+0000) > > What I would love to see is one of either two things: > > 1, classify Urgot as melee, as he isn't actually ranged, plays in melee or very near melee ranged most of the time, shoots the closest target in W so has to be basically in melee half the time, has his E which is delayed, 350 range, and only hits if it comes into melee contact with an opposing champion, and finally, he loses lane to every single actually ranged champion from Jayce to Kennen to Vayne to Teemo. Hell, he actually gets bullied out of CS range against most ranged champs unless he gets his jungler to camp top (good joke this season). > > 2, Have Urgot be considered melee while Purge is active. Basically the same as above, but there is some control over it. Urgot players using {{item:3085}} to double or triple proc his passive with one auto still can, they just can't do so during Purge. That is the point, either put him at full of that or that. Don't make him mix cause it won't work.
Eedat (NA)
: Ryze and Cass? Practically every champ that can use it takes it right now lol
> [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-12-04T00:25:41.700+0000) > > Ryze and Cass? Practically every champ that can use it takes it right now lol Yes but they targeting this two champions at the most, cause the rune shift that happen to them special Ryze
5050BS (NA)
: {{item:3085}} Not that any Urgot builds this.
> [{quoted}](name=5050BS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-12-04T00:13:02.384+0000) > > {{item:3085}} Not that any Urgot builds this. ^ Right ?
Kazekiba (NA)
: Same reason Kogmaw didn't get buffed when Kaisa killed Rageblade
> [{quoted}](name=Kazekiba,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-12-04T00:03:42.629+0000) > > Same reason Kogmaw didn't get buffed when Kaisa killed Rageblade But he got buffed at the end, while Urgot just struggling.
: Urgot being strong because Conqueror is strong isnt a good thing. If he needs buffs, he needs ACTUAL buffs, not indirect ones. Hes doing fine btw. The nerf will probably barely affect him outside of instances that probably should have been nerfed anyway. ____________ Welcome to why the new rune system is shit design btw.
> [{quoted}](name=WoonStruck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-03T23:50:31.369+0000) > > Urgot being strong because Conqueror is strong isnt a good thing. > > If he needs buffs, he needs ACTUAL buffs, not indirect ones. > > Hes doing fine btw. The nerf will probably barely affect him outside of instances that probably should have been nerfed anyway. > > ____________ > > Welcome to why the new rune system is shit design btw. I know right, i never liked the runes and never will. {{champion:86}} is slowly busted cause his E able to full proc Conquer, imagine if he was stacking it normal he won't be consider that op. It just the dumb runes, what if they just made it like the damn Favor of battle where actually a AA make it proc and nothing else, right how else mages would be able to abuse it.
5050BS (NA)
: Urgot attacks should be flagged as Melee and Ranged for advantages. He should be able to use all Melee Only items as well as all Ranged only weapons.
> [{quoted}](name=5050BS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-12-04T00:03:07.051+0000) > > Urgot attacks should be flagged as Melee and Ranged for advantages. > > He should be able to use all Melee Only items as well as all Ranged only weapons. He already have like what ? 350 range and that isn't even consider ranged cause champions with AA power up can go with that range and he need to go in melee with his E. So why he flagged as ranged i don't know
Kazekiba (NA)
: Because you're not playing with people who have 15ms ping and 280+ APM
> [{quoted}](name=Kazekiba,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mLJNHWoR,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-04T00:04:23.429+0000) > > Because you're not playing with people who have 15ms ping and 280+ APM ^
Rioter Comments
: As much as I love Garen, I do want his power curbed. He can't be allowed to be this strong as long as his kit remains the way it is. Start by nerfing the Conq. stacking on his E, so it hits Garen's power without actually touching his kit.
> [{quoted}](name=Ungrateful Thug,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VdEj2E5E,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-12-02T22:58:59.856+0000) > > As much as I love Garen, I do want his power curbed. He can't be allowed to be this strong as long as his kit remains the way it is. Start by nerfing the Conq. stacking on his E, so it hits Garen's power without actually touching his kit. Or maybe let it stack conquer just like Singed, if he tab out and in with it not just running over you with it.
Tokishi7 (NA)
: The balance team took a sabbatical, they'll be back in time for season 11.
> [{quoted}](name=Tokishi7,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VdEj2E5E,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-12-02T07:09:28.707+0000) > > The balance team took a sabbatical, they'll be back in time for season 11. Rip
: if a garen can rub together two brain cells, even counter matchups become manageable. his passive allows him to take unfavorable trades and come out on top so long as he dials back his aggression.
> [{quoted}](name=R0ses R Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VdEj2E5E,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-12-02T03:20:17.955+0000) > > if a garen can rub together two brain cells, even counter matchups become manageable. his passive allows him to take unfavorable trades and come out on top so long as he dials back his aggression. I mean what is the counter when you back off and just heal then go back in and heal ?
: With {{champion:23}} also please
> [{quoted}](name=AlterMordred,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VdEj2E5E,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-12-02T15:48:13.997+0000) > > With {{champion:23}} also please Atleast armor cause work against him due to his AA based damage.
: Cuz he got nerfed already and that nerf had a huge impact on his winrate. He's a non-issue.
> [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleepier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VdEj2E5E,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-12-02T01:51:44.834+0000) > > Cuz he got nerfed already and that nerf had a huge impact on his winrate. > > He's a non-issue. Sure non-issue infact, non-issue that only 3 champions that able to hold over 50% winrate against him.
: It was a normals but considering their jungler was 0/0/1, it seems you lost the lane 1v1 to a superior player. Garen is good at stat checking enemy champions, and has favorable trades in lane but he still isn't anywhere near OP, especially considering all the other champions in top lane.
> [{quoted}](name=LanceTheMighty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VdEj2E5E,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-12-01T23:15:12.686+0000) > > It was a normals but considering their jungler was 0/0/1, it seems you lost the lane 1v1 to a superior player. Garen is good at stat checking enemy champions, and has favorable trades in lane but he still isn't anywhere near OP, especially considering all the other champions in top lane. What is the superior about champion that legit can just spin, kill all ghouls and then just melt you special when he diver under tower and take towers shots like it nothing due to his W ? And that when i was ahead of him in terms of kills and lane pressure but he killed cause he got access to his full attack speed items ? Like wth and cause i missed one E ? Come on don't tell me it superior player it just dumb champion that legit by numbers got only 3 counters and he win one of them in lane phase
: One thing I find a little unusual about Garen is, despite how his spin looks and logic in general, it's not a channeled ability. Even if he's stunned, silenced, or slept during its animation, it continues.
> [{quoted}](name=Everyday Legends,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VdEj2E5E,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-12-01T23:00:18.602+0000) > > One thing I find a little unusual about Garen is, despite how his spin looks and logic in general, it's not a channeled ability. Even if he's stunned, silenced, or slept during its animation, it continues. Man just imagine how it funny how it the only skill that able to proc it fully, like even {{champion:27}} can't do the same thing unless you go in and out of his poison while Garne just spin on you and it stacked in less of second.
: >Honestly when that cancer spin to win, brain dead champion going to get nerfed ? I don't think that {{champion:62}} needs nerfs now to be honest.
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VdEj2E5E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-01T22:56:37.665+0000) > > I don't think that {{champion:62}} needs nerfs now to be honest. :')
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Donkey Kong Jr,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=ws7hu2EH,comment-id=003d,timestamp=2019-11-29T18:31:36.630+0000) > > Qustion to @Riot Lutzburg : > > I am absolutely happy with both new versions but didn't really understand if they are mixed or the latest version is based on the current wukong. What is it? > > And also a BIG **THANK YOU** for that cristmas present. The change list I shared this week is relative to the LIVE GAME. That means Q still has armor shred and 300 range, for example, but no heal.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Lutzburg,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=ws7hu2EH,comment-id=003d0000,timestamp=2019-11-29T21:35:46.144+0000) > > The change list I shared this week is relative to the LIVE GAME. That means Q still has armor shred and 300 range, for example, but no heal. That is the point, we need a heal the shield is amazing and all but he will still struggle without sustain in some way special that his E will be magic damage and his Q give no damage early hence the 0 AD ratio level 1.
: We don't, it's just that no one wants to talk about it or the weebs will emerge from the depths of their basements to defend their waifu.
> [{quoted}](name=Tin Obliterates,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvyQWAIE,comment-id=001a,timestamp=2019-11-30T12:24:12.935+0000) > > We don't, it's just that no one wants to talk about it or the weebs will emerge from the depths of their basements to defend their waifu. I know right, look down at the people that defend her and think that is fine.
: Uh...
It RNG Game, what is ranked even ?
: She can get 2 q autos in before running out of energy but honestly akali is pretty free without her shroud. Shes almost useless without it. My problem isnt her damage but her 3 gap closers /escapes
> [{quoted}](name=RyzeRework,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvyQWAIE,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2019-11-29T14:44:57.659+0000) > > She can get 2 q autos in before running out of energy but honestly akali is pretty free without her shroud. Shes almost useless without it. My problem isnt her damage but her 3 gap closers /escapes That is the point, maybe without shroud she is free but she can escape at same time. That is the whole point, assassin able to poke you from distance then get double their auto range ,refund their cost hide and if you catch her she run. She only start a full combo once she know you going down and that mostly after she poked you like 5 times atleast to 50% hp.
: Welp I stand corrected. I found out Riot canned the heal a while back (I think in May)... which begs the question of, "What else makes/made Akali problematic?" I then remembered that she either goes Footwork for sustain or Electrocute for more burst. In both situations I feel as though I'm watching a one-sided fight. Then I remember she will probably rush a gunblade (an amazing item considering how it compliments her passive) for even more heals via Footwork or more methods to proc Electrocute.
> [{quoted}](name=Sergeant HbA1c,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvyQWAIE,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2019-11-29T22:34:18.266+0000) > > Welp I stand corrected. I found out Riot canned the heal a while back (I think in May)... which begs the question of, "What else makes/made Akali problematic?" > > > I then remembered that she either goes Footwork for sustain or Electrocute for more burst. In both situations I feel as though I'm watching a one-sided fight. > > Then I remember she will probably rush a gunblade (an amazing item considering how it compliments her passive) for even more heals via Footwork or more methods to proc Electrocute. Not only that, her ability to engage and disengage on you whenever she wants is another problem on it own. She who decide the lane cause she got the poke from range with heal, ability to go in and out when she want.
: He has near 52 % wr, how's that strugling ?
> [{quoted}](name=Hi Its Scirocco,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nhEtpuWI,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-29T22:08:14.725+0000) > > He has near 52 % wr, how's that strugling ? Increase the play rate to match other top laners and you will see how he is struggling, play him and you will see how is struggling. He got good win rate just cause few people that mains him, are good at him and that is all.
: Shes fun to play against like Yasuo. Ever tried to play against Veigar. Shits so easy to play against its boring. Oh, wait. Yasuo is easy as fuck if youre playing Cass.
> [{quoted}](name=MrSîsterFister,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvyQWAIE,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2019-11-29T21:25:36.724+0000) > > Shes fun to play against like Yasuo. > > Ever tried to play against Veigar. Shits so easy to play against its boring. > > Oh, wait. > > Yasuo is easy as fuck if youre playing Cass. I mean only a virus can kill another virus lol
Rioter Comments
: Uuuh Akali no longer has sustain in her kit, it was taken from her Q long ago. She's "one direction champion"? I'll pretend I understand this phrasing so as to say that old Akali had 4 point clicks built into her kit, 3 of which were dashes. Old Akali was trash because she was not a champ before level 6 and couldn't get lane prio for sht. Pretty much
> [{quoted}](name=NelsieLisnen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvyQWAIE,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2019-11-29T18:34:27.815+0000) > > Uuuh Akali no longer has sustain in her kit, it was taken from her Q long ago. She's "one direction champion"? I'll pretend I understand this phrasing so as to say that old Akali had 4 point clicks built into her kit, 3 of which were dashes. Old Akali was trash because she was not a champ before level 6 and couldn't get lane prio for sht. Pretty much When i talked about healing, i talk about the fleet rune and gunblade. And when i talk about fun wise playing with her or against her, tell me what is so fun about not having an intractable lane or even worst for the akali player that once the enemy champion hit their powerspike she become useless ? Like honestly where is the fun that suppose her new rework to bring that is different from the old akali ?
: I don't play Akali, but I play a lot of very un-interactive champs (Garen, Mundo, Maokai, ...), and the pleasure comes from properly evaluating the situation and taking the right decision. The game feels more like a single player puzzle game than a fighting game, but it's still fun and interesting to play as. Though, yeah, it's to fun at all for the person playing against. Sorry, not sorry ^^'
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvyQWAIE,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2019-11-29T17:51:04.127+0000) > > I don't play Akali, but I play a lot of very un-interactive champs (Garen, Mundo, Maokai, ...), and the pleasure comes from properly evaluating the situation and taking the right decision. The game feels more like a single player puzzle game than a fighting game, but it's still fun and interesting to play as. Though, yeah, it's to fun at all for the person playing against. Sorry, not sorry ^^' You are right on that but atleast you can play around them and see them, interact with them on way or another while akali special if you are melee. You sit back get poked can't engage on her and in same time she got the hand to engage on you.
koshkyra (NA)
: Fleet footwork + {{item:1054}} = she has no downsides
> [{quoted}](name=koshkyra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvyQWAIE,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2019-11-29T15:11:03.807+0000) > > Fleet footwork + {{item:1054}} = she has no downsides We want to buff top laners but right there cancer that can abuse stuff
: I'll get roasted for saying so, but... ah well, the problem isn't with Akali, it's with the balance team themselves. Akali and many others could theoretically be balanced, even with their unique kit mechanics like true invisibility... but because Riot makes all the money in the world (for not doing their job)... Your issue is with sustain. This problem affects: Akali, Aatrox, Caitlyn, Cho'Gath, **Darius**, **Draven**, **Fiora**, Illaoi, **Irelia**, **Jax**, **Yi**, Vladimir the list goes on and on... but... if you can name me a broken champion, chances are they'll be balanced out by balancing sustain. Unfortunately, many people ignore that and choose to blame the champion themselves like you've just done and, so, the issue never gets resolved. You notice Fiora? Darius? Yasuo? Akali? Aatrox? Lots of healing, right? It's almost like the healing is stacked _onto_ their kit, sometimes in ways that don't even make sense (Irelia) and the champions who don't have self-healing are in turn overloaded as fuck because they, otherwise, _can't keep up._ We have CertainlyT to thank for this, but fortunately he's not going to be designing LoL anymore after releasing yet another ~~overloaded champion~~ balance nightmare. Edit: in some cases, the healing IS literally stacked onto their kit ({{item:3146}}{{item:3812}}{{item:3072}} or Fleet Footwork/Conqueror) and a 40% healing reduction just isn't enough to deal with something like that.
> [{quoted}](name=Inari Fox Orrion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvyQWAIE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-29T04:32:49.871+0000) > > I'll get roasted for saying so, but... ah well, the problem isn't with Akali, it's with the balance team themselves. Akali and many others could theoretically be balanced, even with their unique kit mechanics like true invisibility... but because Riot makes all the money in the world (for not doing their job)... > > Your issue is with sustain. This problem affects: Akali, Aatrox, Caitlyn, Cho'Gath, **Darius**, **Draven**, **Fiora**, Illaoi, **Irelia**, **Jax**, **Yi**, Vladimir the list goes on and on... but... if you can name me a broken champion, chances are they'll be balanced out by balancing sustain. Unfortunately, many people ignore that and choose to blame the champion themselves like you've just done and, so, the issue never gets resolved. > > You notice Fiora? Darius? Yasuo? Akali? Aatrox? Lots of healing, right? It's almost like the healing is stacked _onto_ their kit, sometimes in ways that don't even make sense (Irelia) and the champions who don't have self-healing are in turn overloaded as fuck because they, otherwise, _can't keep up._ We have CertainlyT to thank for this, but fortunately he's not going to be designing LoL anymore after releasing yet another ~~overloaded champion~~ balance nightmare. > > Edit: in some cases, the healing IS literally stacked onto their kit ({{item:3146}}{{item:3812}}{{item:3072}} or Fleet Footwork/Conqueror) and a 40% healing reduction just isn't enough to deal with something like that. No you are right, it about the healing and always about the healing. But unlike the rest of champions she having the short CDR access and she can poke you from a good distance.
: It's the slow in her Q that makes her so abusive. She can virtually poke you down with little chance for retaliation since her spammable poke is a conal slow that helps her get away from ganks on top of her shroud, E dashback, and gunblade slow on top of 2 dashes from her ult. She has way too many outs of mispositioning or getting caught out. A way worse version of Zed since at least Zed has a 22 sec cd on his escape outside his ult, and his slow is not spammable nor does it have the range of Akali's slow. It's too easy for her to dictate the terms of engagement, and once she gets gunblade she gains way too much healing.
> [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvyQWAIE,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-11-29T07:31:07.371+0000) > > It's the slow in her Q that makes her so abusive. She can virtually poke you down with little chance for retaliation since her spammable poke is a conal slow that helps her get away from ganks on top of her shroud, E dashback, and gunblade slow on top of 2 dashes from her ult. > > She has way too many outs of mispositioning or getting caught out. A way worse version of Zed since at least Zed has a 22 sec cd on his escape outside his ult, and his slow is not spammable nor does it have the range of Akali's slow. > > It's too easy for her to dictate the terms of engagement, and once she gets gunblade she gains way too much healing. It just fun to see yourself pushed under tower while she pokes you and heal , poke you and heal , backing to base and back with more healing item. Worst part even your best defensive skill would have twice her q CDR.
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ValiantKiller

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