: Okay. So you gutted one of two problem roles.
Strongly agree with the other post here. Like anyone else, a mid Laner definitely HAS THE TOOLS to hard carry. They have good access to the rest of the map. Unlike the jungle that may fall off in levels and get 1v2'd, a strong mid Laner can roam top with impunity knowing they won't get killed in a 2v1 or even 2v2, because they can take the fed enemy top themselves if they're kiting properly (/ get away if it goes badly). Likewise, a mid Laner can roam bot and shut down the enemy bot Lane in a 3v2 or even 1v2 if they over stayed. However roaming bot CAN still be punished, if the enemy bot is fed and engages on you 2v1 (without the element of surprise to burst the ADC it may not go well). Mid often carries THROUGH their teammates - they get their lead and then bring it to their allies. They use the lead to help the allies get a lead, and those allies help win the game. You're entirely wrong about mid Lane winning games by themselves though. There are VERY FEW mid Lane hyper carries - and those Champions shouldn't be getting fed early. Sure, Azir or Karthus can solo carry, but your typical mage gets hard countered by top Lane fighters and tanks. A single MR tank item pretty much shuts them down. Have you even ever tried killing a Mundo or maokai by yourself as a mage? Their base HP Regen pretty much outheals your damage (not really, but you get the point). If someone like riven or Jax gets near you, you're dead too. Most mids spike mid game and use that to give their team the lead to win late if it goes that far.
Saezio (EUNE)
: They introduced the same mechanic to darius where he can ult and get the reset even if the target dies shortly after.
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QykV4Jpq,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T12:50:20.117+0000) > > They introduced the same mechanic to darius where he can ult and get the reset even if the target dies shortly after. But does he still get the free 5 stacks on the enemy he auto attacks after?
Saezio (EUNE)
: What if I am pyke tho. Shouldn't the darius learn to let me get the kill?
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QykV4Jpq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-19T12:21:20.662+0000) > > What if I am pyke tho. Shouldn't the darius learn to let me get the kill? Time it so your ult starts before the kill, but the damage doesn't apply until after his ult. You still get full kill gold if you ult the right place but someone else gets the kill just before. I think you still get your reset too. Pyke's is a lot more forgiving than Darius'.
Rioter Comments
Saezio (EUNE)
: I hope the ranks you are referencing are their past _flex_ ranks.
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aVbe10NV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-18T13:45:40.403+0000) > > I hope the ranks you are referencing are their past _flex_ ranks. No, solo queue. Which is why I commented towards the end: if I had a regular LP loss I would have written it off as bad luck that these high ranked players had low flex ranks. But I only lost 5 LP. That indicates pretty clearly that matchmaking KNEW the match was imbalanced, presumably with their flex MMR vs ours.
: Why annie is a weak laner in this patch
Annie's weakness is lack of mobility. Her damage is incredibly strong. You should look to trade around her stun: last hit with Q to charge her passive, then you can use Q as a targeted stun and follow with W and an auto before backing out to avoid return damage. At 6, she definitely has the damage to burst people down with tibbers (who will also do damage over time to them if she doesn't quite finish them). With higher auto attack range Annie support gets too strong in pro play (and Annie in all levels of play tbh). As noted at the start, the lack of mobility means you need to be wary of ganks. Annie mid is a good Lane to camp as she wins most matchups 1v1, but is easy to gank if she's extended at all - almost guaranteeing she'll flash or die.
Seen (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ValyrianBlade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6wEfKJHy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-18T12:27:07.330+0000) > > I disagree. > > Taking an inhibitor is meant to be a big advantage. Trading an inhibitor for Baron is meant to be a reasonable option. > > Shortening inhibitor timers is just a buff to late game Champions, who already got buffed from bounties (getting their build faster). A lot of the time, an early game team that plays well and establishes a lead STILL gets outscaled. However they never give up pressure and win because of Map pressure, which inhibitors are a huge part of. > > Reducing the ability to maintain map pressure just makes early game Champions that much less viable (and late game Champions too strong). They would need to end in 20-25min or would get outscaled and lose. Getting 3 inhibitors would be insanely hard as you'd need to do it in one push, not resetting in between. I would say it's better to buff supers during the duration inhib is down and reduce the respawn timer. That way the it forces the leading team to capitalize on their lead while at the same time give the losing side a chance if the winning team does not choose to clench the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Seen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6wEfKJHy,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T12:58:55.707+0000) > > I would say it's better to buff supers during the duration inhib is down and reduce the respawn timer. That way the it forces the leading team to capitalize on their lead while at the same time give the losing side a chance if the winning team does not choose to clench the game. It may be an improvement when the inhibitor is taken at 30+ minutes. When an inhibitor is taken at 12-20min, it would basically be an immediate game-over. Right now, losing a super-early inhibitor can be okay. E.g. enemy top is stomping yours and just splits in his lane all game. Your top abandons his lane (not safe to be there and feed) and helps the rest of your team win the rest of the map. Your bot lane was hard winning already anyways. Enemy top gets inhib as team collapses on him for the shut down kill. Your top can now safely farm up under double nexus towers with supers-farm, while the rest of your team can cc/kite the enemy top if he shows up and otherwise just play catch-up for a while. I've won a reasonable number of games from that situation. (I've also gotten top inhib pre-15min by having a small lead top, then jungler solo'ing Herald, ganking top for a kill when the enemy jungle is bot, the two of us finish the tier 1 turret, then drop herald for tier 2. Then enemy jungle/mid tries to stop us but we win the 2v2 and get the inhibitor with Shelly - and while we won that game the enemy team dragged it out to at least 25min). Now nerf the inhibitor respawn time? Your top doesn't get that free-farm for as long. Buff the super minions? Your top can't even kill them and may even be executed to them. Early super minions are already insanely strong. A buff to their power-level would just make an early inhibitor impossible to come back from.
Rioter Comments
Iustin (EUNE)
: Matchmaking System Report Option
In general this won't help anything. Most games that we view as imbalanced aren't due to matchmaking, but are due to snowballing, champion/role selection, or inconsistency. While there are obviously Smurfs, those players will typically quickly rise to their appropriate rank and only spend a handful of games at each lower rank. Exceptions aren't due to matchmaking, but due to content creators purposefully keeping their rank down (e.g. by dodging). Complaining about worse players, they got to the same Elo. While again some may have paid for a boost, in general it will just be someone having a bad game. Maybe they got ganked early or barely lost a 1v1 and then got snowballed on. Maybe their main was picked/banned. Maybe they aren't experienced against the champion their Lane opponent is on. Maybe they're tilted. There are plenty of explanations for why someone appears to not deserve the Elo you're in. They still had to win the games to get there though. It's far more likely that matchmaking is fine but the variance in game to game performance is the issue. Pushing that player down just makes them get a really big stomp in the lower Elo game.
Beiggar (NA)
: Inhibitor respawn time debate.
I disagree. Taking an inhibitor is meant to be a big advantage. Trading an inhibitor for Baron is meant to be a reasonable option. Shortening inhibitor timers is just a buff to late game Champions, who already got buffed from bounties (getting their build faster). A lot of the time, an early game team that plays well and establishes a lead STILL gets outscaled. However they never give up pressure and win because of Map pressure, which inhibitors are a huge part of. Reducing the ability to maintain map pressure just makes early game Champions that much less viable (and late game Champions too strong). They would need to end in 20-25min or would get outscaled and lose. Getting 3 inhibitors would be insanely hard as you'd need to do it in one push, not resetting in between.
: First time seeing this. :D
If you trade enough, all of your positional ranks will get brought to the same rank. Basically your best role will come down a little, and the rest will move towards that. It's basically opting out of positional matchmaking. The reason for this is that positional matchmaking is abuse-able otherwise. Let's say I'm a Plat 2 mid laner, Plat 3 top, and Gold 2 Jungle, Gold 4 ADC/Supp. meanwhile my friend (or random I got put into game with) is a Plat 2 ADC, Plat 3 support, Gold 2 jungle, and Gold 4 mid/top. If he's put in mid/top and I'm put in adc/supp we're in a gold 4 game. However if we swap roles we'll be mid-Plat in the roles we swap to, and just have a super easy game AND gain LP in those main roles. So if I do that too often, all my ranks will just coverge to Plat 3. I lose a little off my main rank (plat 3 instead of plat 2 mid) but my other ranks all come way up, so I can't get into easier matches by queuing for other roles. The whole idea of positional ranked is that you should be the right skill level for your game without switching roles. So while occasionally switching is fine (say, strategically, because you got counter picked but can flex into another lane), doing it regularly can deactivate positional ranked.
: would you say there should always be ad teammates?
> [{quoted}](name=Brony Gaymer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KRovQHAk,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-17T17:44:17.202+0000) > > would you say there should always be ad teammates? Yes. Definite, strong, yes. While Riot seems to be okay with letting ADCs or even fighters do real damage to tanks that are strictly stacking armour, the same is generally not true for AP. If a team is all AP and a tank stacks MR, they will become unkillable. Even with as few as {{item:3111}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3001}} {{item:3194}} (4 of 6 items) the tank will tank next-to-no damage from AP only teams.
del0 (NA)
: What happen to my rank borders in loading screen?
I agree that it's pretty dumb. I got plat pretty early last season and yet had the play the whole season with a gold border. Then this season instead of getting the plat border guess what? I'm likely to place in gold and get a gold border again until I climb again. Why do I need to get Plat in two separate seasons to get a plat border for the first time?
: even if they have MR or you can't hit your skillshots? I got 10 kills today with warrior enchant morg and going manamune
> [{quoted}](name=Brony Gaymer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KRovQHAk,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-17T16:47:13.462+0000) > > even if they have MR or you can't hit your skillshots? I got 10 kills today with warrior enchant morg and going manamune If they're building MR that means your AD teammates will do more damage. If everyone built ad, your opponents wouldn't build MR, they would just stack armor. If you can't land your skillshots, then you have two options: - practice - learn to land them - play Champions that aren't skillshot reliant There are lots of Champions that aren't skillshot reliant. Admittedly most are AD (your marksmen) and this wouldn't be a better pick if you're going to build ad because you can't land abilities. Some ap options that don't need to land skillshots: Teemo - you can build on hit (eg nashors and Lich bane) and do lots of magic damage. Azir - you're dealing basic damage by attacking with your soldiers (admittedly this Champion is much harder to play than landing your skillshots on any other champion would be though) Also tanks like maokai or malphite don't really have skillshots to hit (the latter's ult being important though).
: Are there any champions that don't benefit from mixing some ad items into their build?
Yes, pretty much any ap champion. If you have ap ratios on your abilities, then building ap will give you more damage (and more burst, front loaded damage is better as it gets your opponent dead faster to stop their sustained damage). Also, most tanks don't benefit as much from building ad as from building tank. They often have percent health damage (either their health or their opponents) and mostly deal damage from these abilities while living a long time to building full tank and using lots of crowd control. Ap champion examples: {{champion:103}} {{champion:34}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:13}} and many more Tank examples: {{champion:113}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:111}} etc.... Some tanks like{{champion:78}} {{champion:98}} or{{champion:72}} can and sometimes do build an ad item or two though (often of {{item:3078}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3053}}
: > [{quoted}](name=ValyrianBlade,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8irIT823,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-16T17:04:09.338+0000) > > The recommended builds aren't amazing, but they're probably better than what you're picking to go on your own if you're only using your own ideas and aren't very high ranked. > > Sites like u.gg or op.gg will generally suggest better builds for you. u.gg even lets you put in who your lane opponent is and somewhat customizes the recommended build to that. > > You should try to get an understanding of why certain items are built in certain situations though, rather than just blindly following a recommended build from the game or these other sites. then can you give me example of itemization for 1 champion and the reasoning behind the whats and the whens?
> [{quoted}](name=Brony Gaymer,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8irIT823,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-16T17:08:03.220+0000) > > then can you give me example of itemization for 1 champion and the reasoning behind the whats and the whens? Well, I play a lot of Ahri. {{champion:103}} You always rush {{item:3285}} because you need the mana, AP, and cdr. You COULD rush {{item:3152}} at high levels of play if you're going to be really conservative with your mana and can reliably get blue buff from your jungler (to alleviate your mana problems most of the time). You'll generally want {{item:3020}} early to give you more damage. {{item:3111}} might be considered against a CC and AP heavy team, but even then you'd probably want Sorcs unless you're behind. After that is when it gets situational. {{item:3165}} is never a bad pickup as it gives you double penetration so you're dealing close to true damage against squishies. However if they don't have any healing you're wasting the grievous wounds. Against AD mid picks you probably should have gotten a {{item:3191}} before completing ludens (basically lost chapter > seekers > ludens), and you should complete Zhonya's here instead of Morello. 4th you either want the one of {{item:3157}} / {{item:3165}} that you didn't buy yet if they're both useful. Otherwise you might want {{item:3089}} if you're snowballing, or {{item:3102}} if they're AP heavy and/or you're behind their AP Mid, or {{item:3135}} if they have lots of tanks stacking MR. You could also go {{item:3152}} at this point.
: Are the reccomended builds good? people say not to use them so i kinda go on my own but idk
The recommended builds aren't amazing, but they're probably better than what you're picking to go on your own if you're only using your own ideas and aren't very high ranked. Sites like u.gg or op.gg will generally suggest better builds for you. u.gg even lets you put in who your lane opponent is and somewhat customizes the recommended build to that. You should try to get an understanding of why certain items are built in certain situations though, rather than just blindly following a recommended build from the game or these other sites.
: Cant have it both ways
> [{quoted}](name=XXXMurderPenguin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NW9cZNaw,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-16T15:23:19.690+0000) > > Cant have it both ways Literally making a suggestion that would make it possible... Why are you commenting if you didn't even bother reading?
Ozu (NA)
: Banned For Taking Ghost/Cleanse Strategically
Honestly the whole banning system is ridiculous. All 4 of your allies should be banned (3 for afk'ing and one for griefing). You're the only person of the 5 that shouldn't be, and probably were only 1 of 2 that did. I doubt the 3 AFKs were even punished beyond a leaverbuster warning. Riot's team for bans is pathetic really. Seeing the automated responses to tickets, etc... it's sickening. I've never received any punishments or warnings, but if even 1% of the shit I read on these forums is true, then Riot's really not handling things correctly. Not to mention the actual shit I see in my games. Like a mid-jungle duo constantly over-extending without vision and getting caught and dying, then spam-pinging that I have teleport up. Yup, like I'm going to TP into the middle of a 2v4 fight when we're already down 7 kills. Probably just would get abandoned and die myself even if we could have taken the fight.
: > [{quoted}](name=oOBestEveNAOo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=QzXJzljw,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-16T14:28:23.401+0000) > > I'm an idiot. I misclicked and was playing a normal. And it was a 4 man. Very not fun game, 4 mans should never be a thing. what would you do when you are a 4 man then? They already disabled it for Flex, so the only remaining option is normal.
> [{quoted}](name=Who Fed Ru,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=QzXJzljw,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-16T14:33:37.149+0000) > > what would you do when you are a 4 man then? > They already disabled it for Flex, so the only remaining option is normal. Not be a 4 man. Either stop inviting at 3, or wait to get a 5th. (just the very literal answer, not necessarily the right one).
: You can turn off clicks to the minimap
> [{quoted}](name=XXXMurderPenguin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NW9cZNaw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-16T13:57:07.890+0000) > > You can turn off clicks to the minimap Literally my first sentence: I like to use my minimap to move most of the time, I don't want to turn it off.
Rioter Comments
: My team vs enemy team: always same story.
Maybe it's the champions you play? i.e. I find the same with my teams, but generally I think it's because I play tanks top and waveclear mid. So if I'm top, I can peel pretty well and the idea may be that we outscale since I'm a tank and if our ADC catches up we'll win. If I'm mid, the idea may be that if I don't get killed I can waveclear and stall long enough for our team to catch up and make the game a coin-flip on one fight. That being said, I like it because I AM one of the players that generally doesn't want to surrender. More often than not I have time to queue for 1 game, I have an hour or so that I'm able to commit to playing. I don't queue for a game if I have less than an hour to play it out. So once you consider queue time + champion select + 15min to surrender - I generally don't have time for another game anyways. May as well do the best I can to win the one I have time to play out.
Kazekiba (NA)
: There is a way you win the lane. It's called he took inspiration and you didn't. You had the upper hand.
> [{quoted}](name=Kazekiba,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3eAK3Xtw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-15T18:41:59.661+0000) > > There is a way you win the lane. > It's called he took inspiration and you didn't. You had the upper hand. And exactly what do I do with that? Fight him? Great idea. Fight him pre first back, win hard. Regardless need to back for mana after he's gone through his 3 pots. He gets a turret plate because he didn't have mana to worry about. After first back he has hexdrinker. How exactly am I supposed to do anything against that - definitely don't have the damage to all in. Poke him down again, but doesn't matter I need to back for mana and he gets another plate. He gets a wave of XP, CS, and a turret plate lead each time I back for mana. After the first back (which I can't do anything about) that's already a 160 + 3x16 + 3x20 + 60 = 328g lead plus experience. And he gets to choose what to buy after seeing what I bought - so I come back with a lost chapter to resolve my mana issues and maybe he goes Dirk+longsword and destroys me as soon as he gets ult with his XP lead. I come back with 2amp tomes and a cloth armor (like I did) and he gets hexdrinker because he knows I won't be a free kill but he can just get the same result as the first back for free since I don't have mana sustain. So please, tell me what exactly is my upper hand?
Rioter Comments
Necroash (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cnYOHnv5,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-15T16:28:24.642+0000) > > It was me(bard) and yasuo. yasuo got oneshotted. > > just because i didn't not do the MOST optimal thing doesn't mean that he should kill me within 0.2 seconds. NO ASSASSIN can do that. > He was in a really unfavorable situation but his kit is so overloaded that he can pretty much do anything. > > i was the support in that game, in case you didn't notice i was playing with bard. > So your argument is pretty much invalid. > > This guy did A HUGE mistake and wasn't even punished for it at all while i did a really tiny one, in the heat of the moment it was really hard to time it. > > You basically saying unless i play FLAWLESSLY and set up multiple cc chains on khazix i will get killed. okay, that's a healthy way to make a champion. > > i know exactly what his passive do. i even stated it in my post. so unless i hug my teammates during teamfights i will be isolated. > The whole point of TEAM FIGHT is that you are NOT ISOLATED. > > Not true. only khazix doesn't have to outplay his opponents because he is overloaded with 150% more damage needed to kill anyone in the game Kha has no CC. Nothing prevents you from just walking away. If you're laning properly, you should be able to stand near enough to your minions to negate his burst, and often times just kill him.
> [{quoted}](name=Necroash,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cnYOHnv5,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-15T16:36:31.401+0000) > > Kha has no CC. Nothing prevents you from just walking away. If you're laning properly, you should be able to stand near enough to your minions to negate his burst, and often times just kill him. I don't know if it's a bug, but it often feels like Kha is able to proc duskblade's slow with his W. I'll be away from him fine and get tagged with his W and all of a sudden I'm barely moving...
: 5 Tank Strategy
as someone else mentioned, 4 tanks plus an ADC works better. I've played against enough of those teams, even if the ADC feeds like mad early, they have so much peel late that they do all the damage anyways, and outdamage your fed adc by the end of the game.
: I mean that is what happens when the Jungle is gutted so bad that you need a champion good at dueling and at ganking.
> [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OUL7KxoB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-14T23:18:07.011+0000) > > I mean that is what happens when the Jungle is gutted so bad that you need a champion good at dueling and at ganking. Kha'zix was long a problem before jungle xp was nerfed. These players aren't just starting to use it, they've been using it all season (and before).
Rioter Comments
: Nocturne Spell Shield doesn't give assist
Even if you didn't block it and were stunned by her ult, she still would have died just as fast... Your spell shield protected you. It didn't contribute towards killing her though. The fact that she ulted you and not herself isn't relevant.
Nadiri (NA)
: There is no way you get EVERY game autofilled. You pick 2 role and you are likely to get one of this roles. Autofill happens but not as much as you are saying. Also autofill gives extra LP.
> [{quoted}](name=Nadiri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KhTAG7jE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-14T17:45:48.591+0000) > > There is no way you get EVERY game autofilled. You pick 2 role and you are likely to get one of this roles. Autofill happens but not as much as you are saying. Also autofill gives extra LP. He means he queues fill. Autofill was in quotes because queuing fill is basically volunteering to get autofilled.
Zyra Bot (EUW)
: Spellthiefs nerf
I agree that they should gut klepto on its main users. Would like to see it go on a 15 second cooldown per use or something like that. Also would like to see RNG removed on it, and have it follow a cycle of the items (with duplicates of the more likely ones).
: Maximum attack speed is a LIE!
Short of miscounting, this is a real problem. If numbers in post are accurate, it either means: The cap is actually lower Or Animations affect your attack speed (which they shouldn't, they may affect how long it takes for the first attack to connect, but shouldn't affect the output rate - meaning at most they should only cause a 1 attack count difference over any time period, which his 40 second test clearly violates).
: Riot Blaustoise “I think some of the worst metas in League had the highest incidents of snowballing.
I dislike how comeback mechanics make the game drastically easier for late game Champions. Oh - you lost early LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO? then when mid game hits even if you lose a fight 5 kills to 3, you're probably netting more gold from the fight (not less) and it makes you catch up while you outscale. That just doesn't feel fair. I shouldn't win a fight, be unable to end off that win, then lose the next fight immediately a minute later; not because you scaled more in that minute (if you stalled 6 minutes since the last fight then fine) or because you played the next fight better, but because you got 2800g on 3 kills thanks to bounties while our team only got 1500g for 5 kills.
Theorex (NA)
: For those of you who want to climb
"don't play tanks in an ADC meta" ??? Like, I understand that ADCs are the best at killing tanks. However tanks are also the best at protecting ADCs aren't they? Surely if your opponent is picking an assassin (with the hopes of blowing up your ADC) and you are picking a tank (to prevent them doing so) you're in the advantage?
Yenn (NA)
: This is some hard proof that this season has a serious issue with snowballing
I mean - I don't get it. If this strategy works so well in the early game, but then he starts feeding the rest of the game, why aren't players abusing the same early game strategy without shitting the bed for the rest of the game? Can you direct-message me the player's name so I can look up some replays for myself?
: > [{quoted}](name=ValyrianBlade,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BQuEFZ6f,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-12T16:35:43.976+0000) > > He's already not only a low Elo pub stomper, but an annoyance in high Elo too. I've watched plenty of Master+ streamers lose games to master yi. Largely because he requires so much attention early that he creates loads of pressure even when not getting fed, then late even if not fed still needs to be a priority target for your team. > > Adding anything even half as strong as what you're suggesting would absolutely bust him. All champions can do well in high elo, but adding this stun to his Q would make him closer in power to other assassins not further away, sorry to break it to you
> [{quoted}](name=Brony Gaymer,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BQuEFZ6f,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T16:39:10.754+0000) > > All champions can do well in high elo, but adding this stun to his Q would make him closer in power to other assassins not further away, sorry to break it to you Sorry to break it to you, but Master Yi isn't really an assassin. He's a huge sustained damage champion that happens to have some front-loaded burst. Not a burst assassin that happens to have really good DPS. Yi gives up some CC/utility that other assassins may have because he does way more damage over time.
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=ValyrianBlade,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BQuEFZ6f,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-12T16:35:43.976+0000) > > He's already not only a low Elo pub stomper, but an annoyance in high Elo too. I've watched plenty of Master+ streamers lose games to master yi. Largely because he requires so much attention early that he creates loads of pressure even when not getting fed, then late even if not fed still needs to be a priority target for your team. > > Adding anything even half as strong as what you're suggesting would absolutely bust him. https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/MasterYi/graphs/ He has medium ban rate, with okay play rate, and average to low win rate (around 50% in plat, and 46-47% in Diamond) in high elo. Nothing tells me he's a big deal in Plat and above.
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BQuEFZ6f,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-02-12T21:11:03.726+0000) > > https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/MasterYi/graphs/ > > He has medium ban rate, with okay play rate, and average to low win rate (around 50% in plat, and 46-47% in Diamond) in high elo. > > Nothing tells me he's a big deal in Plat and above. Apologies, I didn't mean he's a problem in plat+ (he's a low elo pub stomper for sure though) - rather that he requires a lot of attention in high elo still. He definitely still generates a lot of pressure and by doing so can still function at that elo, even though players know to CC him and in general how to play against him. It's not like he's dysfunctional at that elo was moreso what I meant by the "attention" comments.
: master yi is a gimick champion
He's already not only a low Elo pub stomper, but an annoyance in high Elo too. I've watched plenty of Master+ streamers lose games to master yi. Largely because he requires so much attention early that he creates loads of pressure even when not getting fed, then late even if not fed still needs to be a priority target for your team. Adding anything even half as strong as what you're suggesting would absolutely bust him.
Zerenza (NA)
: Red Buff VS Blue Buff and The Fighter Jungle Meta
They used to give bonus percent ap from blue. However this wouldn't help your point (worthless on first clear) and it was OP when given to mid laners (if one got it and the other didn't, mid was basically over). I don't think it's a huge deal that red is stronger, at least early. Mana Regen and CDR are still important for many. You get 2 scuttles so you can play around your opponent and take the one opposite them (you just need to be aware of where they are). You can vertical jungle if they're invading you. Your team can collapse if they're invading you. You can gank the opposite side of the map if they're invading you. You can start red if you're worried they'll invade your red and feel you need it. Or you can clear your whole bot side + scuttle and recall to buy so you have an item advantage (and maybe level) if they went to your red side and waited hoping to ambush you. Jungling is a lot about predicting what your opponent will do. I'm as tired of the fighter dominance as the best guy (albeit moreso in top), but it's not like they can't be beat.
: Seems a bit too strong for escapes. Throw Q forward for slow, dodge Q and bounce on it for easy long escape.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Z6YXEkMG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-12T12:27:47.255+0000) > > Seems a bit too strong for escapes. Throw Q forward for slow, dodge Q and bounce on it for easy long escape. Perhaps make it only grant the double jump if the boomerang hit a target. Would only be usable for escapes if minions were behind him, which if they are he could double jump on them instead
Rioter Comments
Lutein (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mr Elessar,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VEos07lv,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-11T18:43:25.007+0000) > > Define "casual player". > [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VEos07lv,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-11T19:17:12.165+0000) > > How many games do you play per week? I find your claims inaccurate since I, personally have been amassing BE much faster than I was gathering IP. > As a casual player you should also thank riot for changing runes thus making you not have to spend upwards of half a million IP in runes and pages. To play from time to time and not aim for everyday win exp. I have been gaining a level/month so far for playing 2-3 days/ week with 1 game a day (win or lose doesn't matter), I am still around lv 85 only, most of my shards are still shards, because I want to have at least 1 shard for a champ and Disenchant only repeatables. My Total BE is 7800 atm, after farming an year for it. I have been playing since 2009 and have around 1000 hours total playtime over the 10 years. > [{quoted}](name=Unker139,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VEos07lv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-11T18:42:05.877+0000) > > I'm a casual player with 25 champs - a dozen of which I've never played. I have 15K be and 37 champion shards. I can unlock champions far faster than I can learn them. I don't see a problem. This is the definition of a new regular player who plays at least one game a day. Most of the time aiming for a daily win. AND doing ALL events so far. Not casual at all.
> [{quoted}](name=Lutein,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VEos07lv,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-11T19:35:28.911+0000) > > To play from time to time and not aim for everyday win exp. > > I have been gaining a level/month so far for playing 2-3 days/ week with 1 game a day (win or lose doesn't matter), > > I am still around lv 85 only, most of my shards are still shards, because I want to have at least 1 shard for a champ and Disenchant only repeatables. > > My Total BE is 7800 atm, after farming an year for it. I have been playing since 2009 and have around 1000 hours total playtime over the 10 years. > > > This is the definition of a new regular player who plays at least one game a day. Most of the time aiming for a daily win. AND doing ALL events so far. Not casual at all. You're completely off your rocker here. You have kept all your shards - i.e. the thing that they're giving you to produce blue essence. OF COURSE YOU'RE NOT UNLOCKING CHAMPIONS THEN. Like seriously, how did you think this worked? You need to disenchant some shards to unlock others. While it's more efficient to disenchant duplicates, that only works if you own at least a reasonable chunk of Champions first so you have duplicates to disenchant. If you've been lucky enough to get lots of shards that you don't own despite owning a reasonable number of Champions - then you're lucky, not unlucky. In contrast even though I still need 40 Champions, I almost never get a shard for an unowned champion.
: Question for the Jungle mains out there: How should I ask for a gank?
What has worked for me lately when playing maokai is to point out before minions spawn that I have great gank assist (and further point out immobility of my Lane opponent if true). Then I'll say that the jungler should come to my Lane for free kills early, and use the gold to help the rest of the team. I think it works well because a jungler doesn't really want to help get a top Lane fed... Most times when you're in this situation you're on a tank and you're going to be useful regardless so he'd rather you be a bit behind and he get a carry fed. However almost all junglers will understand that it's effective to get fed themselves, and to use that lead to get the carries fed. If that happens to give you an easier Lane, that's a great benefit too. It also shows that you're not just asking for him to always help you. You're volunteering to help the team - you're saying that by getting a kill in your Lane the gold will help win for the team. And it works well: almost every time I've had a carry jungler, I've hard-won games where my jungler got 3+ kills in my Lane for free. Nocturne and Xin Zhao have been my best partners for this, but other picks (e.g. neeko) have done the same. Obviously tank junglers won't work as well though - they'd prefer to go to a high damage Lane since they bring the cc.
: > [{quoted}](name=ValyrianBlade,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AbHd2YMu,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-10T15:30:35.762+0000) > > I mean, your last sentence says it all: it's pretty arrogant of you to just assume everyone else is wrong Listen mate, I'm not saying the way it was utilized was incorrect. The math is saying the way it was utilized was inefficient. They gave up turret plating and failed to collect it, wasted the gold from the waves that could have been collected in part or majority, and all this in a snowball fast paced meta that is largely decided by income advantages acquired in the first 10 minutes of the game. This isn't an opinion. This is mathematical fact. The strategy was misused. That isn't up for debate. What could be up for debate is how to best utilize the strategy, and given my 6 season experience as a top 1% player who occasionally played against pro players I can pretty definitively state that any of us at that level of play will breakdown the strategy exactly as I have and realize it can be utilized in a superior fashion. More over, professional coaches and players will, eventually, also come to these conclusions, not because "I said so", but because that's what the math dictates. There's a reason funnel was run out of mid lane and it's because it maximizes the advantages of the strategy by increasing the area of the map affected and that increase in area also maximizes income generation potential. Now arrogance was assuming anything you stated was a valid point of debate when it's clear that your understanding of the strategy and the math behind it as a whole is limited. That was arrogance. And pettiness is your need to downvote a thread that shouldn't be downvoted or upvoted as it was merely a factual observation.
> [{quoted}](name=oOBestEveNAOo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AbHd2YMu,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-10T17:13:43.659+0000) > > Listen mate, I'm not saying the way it was utilized was incorrect. > > The math is saying the way it was utilized was inefficient. They gave up turret plating and failed to collect it, wasted the gold from the waves that could have been collected in part or majority, and all this in a snowball fast paced meta that is largely decided by income advantages acquired in the first 10 minutes of the game. > > This isn't an opinion. This is mathematical fact. The strategy was misused. > > That isn't up for debate. > > What could be up for debate is how to best utilize the strategy, and given my 6 season experience as a top 1% player who occasionally played against pro players I can pretty definitively state that any of us at that level of play will breakdown the strategy exactly as I have and realize it can be utilized in a superior fashion. More over, professional coaches and players will, eventually, also come to these conclusions, not because "I said so", but because that's what the math dictates. There's a reason funnel was run out of mid lane and it's because it maximizes the advantages of the strategy by increasing the area of the map affected and that increase in area also maximizes income generation potential. > > Now arrogance was assuming anything you stated was a valid point of debate when it's clear that your understanding of the strategy and the math behind it as a whole is limited. That was arrogance. And pettiness is your need to downvote a thread that shouldn't be downvoted or upvoted as it was merely a factual observation. I never actually downvoted your thread, so you can get off your high horse. "Math" is a nice argument. It really works great in a video game where there are so many uncontrolled variables. As I mentioned in my responses, mid laners could function better against the strategy. Let's go back to my first post - I made a very clear statement that you've entirely ignored and failed to make any argument against. Zilean was even with gold in Urgot, NOT because the strategy gave Zilean full gold but because Urgot was significantly lower in CS compared to the two mid laners in the game. If the enemy champion can handle the strategy better than Urgot (let's say, through having multiple ranged abilities that can farm safely from range) then how exactly is this strategy supposed to work against them? You'll be significantly behind in gold early. You're then depending on your jungler's extra gold to work better than your mid lane deficit. That extra gold that is reduced by 10 per minion if it's too close to monster gold, as well. Oh - and you're also giving up map pressure of your jungler top/bot (because they can play aggressive knowing where your jungler is) AND their jungler can still have pressure / steal camps / gank other lanes / roam with mid / etc... Yes, in simple terms funneling that gold would get your team more net gold and experience. Simple math. In practice, it MIGHT not translate into more/easier wins.
: > [{quoted}](name=ValyrianBlade,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AbHd2YMu,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-10T03:29:40.936+0000) > > I missed the pick order, but did watch the strategy. The purpose is not only to get gold from spellthiefs (not cs'ing to avoid putting it on cd, until you upgrade it so you get extra gold in total) but ALSO to severely bully your Lane opponent and hard deny them CS. > > If you look closely, you'll notice that while zilean was even in gold to Urgot when he finished his quest, Urgot was significantly behind the mid laners in CS. > > This is the issue with taking the strategy mid: you can't deny a mid Lane nearly as well. You also would severely risk exposing yourself to ganks by trying to harass that hard. > > Top Lane you're hoping to be bullying a melee Lane so much that they actually get almost no gold (and even a ranged Urgot was held back pretty significantly, however I'm not sure if they picked the strategy into Urgot or if Urgot was picked against it). You also only really have one access for ganks, so you're more able to harass with lower risk. > > Finally, top or mid, the jungler taking CS also means you're sharing XP - so you'll fall behind your Lane opponent in levels = can't harass them off the wave as easily (may even just die to them 1v1). While it may be more optimal gold wise, it may not be optimal from other perspectives. Most of this analysis is flat out incorrect. Mid lane can easily harass without pushing in most matchups and the prevelance of melee mid laners as priority picks in the meta increases the effectiveness of the strategy (irelia, akali, galio, aatrox, etc.) so simply eliminating a meta ranged mid lane pick in ban phase 1 could push teams into trading a power pick there. You are less exposed to ganks in mid lane with this strat, not more, as the strategy relies on not pushing waves and mid lane is closer in proximity to every other member of the team which makes dive plays very risky for opposing teams. In terms of exp, based purely on the math, this strat is much more effective in mid lane for sharing exp with the jungler and transferring a significant level lead to that player. It doesn't mean much to be down a level on something like karma to a lane opponent while your jungler being up 2, 3, or even 4 levels is a significant advantage, particularly with something that hyper scales. Smite advantage doesn't mean much in solo q, but we're talking competitive play here and it's huge in competitive play. A whole lot of flawed thinking in your statements here, but hey, the pros also made these same fundamental mistakes when considering the strategy.
> [{quoted}](name=oOBestEveNAOo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AbHd2YMu,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-10T14:17:46.939+0000) > > Most of this analysis is flat out incorrect. > > Mid lane can easily harass without pushing in most matchups and the prevelance of melee mid laners as priority picks in the meta increases the effectiveness of the strategy (irelia, akali, galio, aatrox, etc.) so simply eliminating a meta ranged mid lane pick in ban phase 1 could push teams into trading a power pick there. > > You are less exposed to ganks in mid lane with this strat, not more, as the strategy relies on not pushing waves and mid lane is closer in proximity to every other member of the team which makes dive plays very risky for opposing teams. > > In terms of exp, based purely on the math, this strat is much more effective in mid lane for sharing exp with the jungler and transferring a significant level lead to that player. It doesn't mean much to be down a level on something like karma to a lane opponent while your jungler being up 2, 3, or even 4 levels is a significant advantage, particularly with something that hyper scales. Smite advantage doesn't mean much in solo q, but we're talking competitive play here and it's huge in competitive play. > > A whole lot of flawed thinking in your statements here, but hey, the pros also made these same fundamental mistakes when considering the strategy. I mean, your last sentence says it all: it's pretty arrogant of you to just assume everyone else is wrong and you're correct. First: Just because melee mid laners exist as strong picks, doesn't mean they're necessary picks. A lot of usable mid laners can deal with the strategy well. If they've already locked in something like Aatrox/Akali/Galio/Irelia they could all flex into top lane picks anyways. There isn't a single mid lane pick that couldn't deal with this at least as well as Urgot that also can't be flexed into a top lane pick. Second: "The strat relies on not puhsing waves": this is simply untrue. The strat relies on harassing heavily. Auto attacks, as well as some abilities, trigger minion aggro. If the enemy minions are attacking you, while your minions are attacking the enemy minions - guess who's pushing? Before your lane opponent gets enough AP to waveclear you will end up pushing the wave as they just avoid harass and focus on last hitting and trading with you a bit. It makes you an easy gank target. Once they get waveclear (which almost all meta mid laners have excellent waveclear, something that top laners typically don't have) then they can shove the wave and leave the lane - meaning you have NO ONE to harass to get spellthief's procs. This strategy would be terrible mid. Early levels you're trading with a small advantage but end up shoving the lane because you're taking minion aggro so you get ganked and give up free kills to an enemy carry, then your opponent gets some AP and just shoves the wave and roams applying pressure to the rest of the map while you have no one to get procs off of. Third: The pick is really important. Zilean is a great pick for this strategy in pro play because of how powerful the revive is in late teamfights. While solo queue boosting/funneling strategies like picks such as Lulu, Zilean is FAR more effective in coordinated gameplay. Lulu is good in solo queue because she's easy and reliable. As soon as the engage starts on her carry she can press R. She can use shields and cc on cooldown. However Zilean needs to time his R for right before someone is going to die (to prevent them just not finishing the target and switching to another target) while needing to make sure he actually gets it off. Then there's his more difficult to land AOE stun which is huge in fights in jungle areas like near baron or dragon. Basically the point is that Zilean is a much better pick for this. And Zilean mid is going to struggle to trade with most mid laners using this strategy because his bomb is AOE and therefore would push the wave / could accidentally kill creeps if he uses it to trade. You'll notice that Zilean only used his bomb when none of the creeps were low enough to die to it. In mid lane he wouldn't have nearly the harass from ranged auto attacks though. Fourth: XP. Yes it's a big advantage for your jungler to get more xp. It's also a disadvantage for your laner. It's a net xp advantage for your team (because sharing xp gives more than 50% to each). Again though, putting your mid lane behind in XP is a dangerous proposition. It gives the enemy mid priority. If they can solo kill your lane, they can exert so much map pressure. If you can even just shove the lane easier and then roam, they can counter your jungler's ganks and again gain an advantage for their team. In solo queue the strategy could work a lot better because people aren't as good at predicting the jungler's movements and can overextend and give the jungle kills to snowball on. In pro play that won't happen. Instead, you're much more likely to get advantages by bringing both mid and jungle somewhere and having a 2-champion advantage to initiate dives. A stronger mid is important for this.
: Why Do I Play A Game That Does Not Let Me Choose?
This was the common argument when picking 2 roles became a thing: Support was already least desirable Any player who didn't mind playing support a reasonable amount of the time would stop playing it entirely because they'd always get it. People who were support primaries but still wanted to play other roles might end up stop playing support and people who were support secondaries or less would definitely stop playing it. It would end up making even more players forced to fill compared to before. And some others would be pushed from 50-90% support to 100% support. And I would say it largely did that. There was a while where Riot released statistics and they argued they fixed matchmaking so you'd get your primary more than your secondary no matter what - however I don't think it's still working. I think what players complained about is true. Now - auto fill is needed (at least with role selection - without role selection the players need to voluntarily fill in the lobby based on draft order). However they need to modify the algorithm to allow support secondaries to thrive. I think the best option is that if someone queues support secondary/fill secondary and plays a game of support, they can choose to queue for only 1 role the following game with fill protection.
: Game is too snowbally and early game is all that matters
Meanwhile I've had the exact opposite feeling for a while now. The game only feels more snowbally when your whole team is winning the map. Despite the extra gold available, it feels less possible to carry from one fed lane. If your top/mid is really snowballing but the enemy bot lane is even a little better than yours while scaling harder, it seems that mid game fights may still go your way in general but if you don't win in 20-25min they outscale you and your opportunity is lost.
: So, the new "No CS" strat shown in pro play today
I missed the pick order, but did watch the strategy. The purpose is not only to get gold from spellthiefs (not cs'ing to avoid putting it on cd, until you upgrade it so you get extra gold in total) but ALSO to severely bully your Lane opponent and hard deny them CS. If you look closely, you'll notice that while zilean was even in gold to Urgot when he finished his quest, Urgot was significantly behind the mid laners in CS. This is the issue with taking the strategy mid: you can't deny a mid Lane nearly as well. You also would severely risk exposing yourself to ganks by trying to harass that hard. Top Lane you're hoping to be bullying a melee Lane so much that they actually get almost no gold (and even a ranged Urgot was held back pretty significantly, however I'm not sure if they picked the strategy into Urgot or if Urgot was picked against it). You also only really have one access for ganks, so you're more able to harass with lower risk. Finally, top or mid, the jungler taking CS also means you're sharing XP - so you'll fall behind your Lane opponent in levels = can't harass them off the wave as easily (may even just die to them 1v1). While it may be more optimal gold wise, it may not be optimal from other perspectives.
Rioter Comments
Show more

ValyrianBlade

Level 117 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion