: Is this game fun again?
It's not fun and you will not enjoy it. I am being honest with you. I had a lot of friends return after a year or a few months off and the game is worse. The Scuttle changes shifted the entire feel and champion pool of the JG. It is too the point that you can only play one type of jungler now or you will fall behind. New champion and popular champions still get the prioritized reworks. It is what it is. The Developers are not going to change.
: Is this game more fun than it was 2 years ago?
No it is not. I appreciate the changes like the Runes and Honor System, but it feels like the balance is out of whack. Everything is still doing too much damage and the game is still changing way too much for anyone to keep up with it anymore. This is a year where we had a lot of unnecessary things being worked on and added into the game, at the expense of the players trying to keep up with it and enjoy the game. The Developers are changing too much and it is annoying players.
: That new rune that no one uses
Are you talking about Nimbus Cloak?
: Like 1% of the player base gives a shit about Karma. If all you're going to do is gloat at the devs then at least pick a champion who actually has a presence within the game.
Oh. Like the 1% of your brain you used to type out this comment? She doesn't have a presence in the game because she is never worked on to be made a presence in the game. Is your logic that unless the champion is Ahri, Lux, Jinx, Ezreal, Ryze and many other popular champions, they are the only ones that are allowed to have work done on them and get skins? You do realize the Developers choose who is a presence in the game with their reworks, item changes and game mechanical changes? Great use of the your 1% brain usage. Let me tell you what you aren't: smart.
: honestly couldnt give less of a shit about karma. there are champs like zilean , amumu and a few others i dont even remember, that suffer every day from looking like trash and having very weird and out dated kits. karma IS a mess. and id like to see her fixed. BUT there is clearly other champions that are also being neglected and need these changes more. much love btw. i love a good rant.
Who are all scheduled for a VGU. Karma is not getting a VGU and will never get a VGU before any of those champions you listed. If you don't have anything to say kid, go back to sewer vent you crawled out of.
: Ivern's version will never be like Karma's version. You're right about it not solving _all_ Karma's problems, but all it needs to solve is the problems with Mantra E and her passive (which goes a long way towards a healthier play style). Other changes can address other problems, but she needs her iconic ability back. What I would suggest is that if they do bring back the shieldbomb, they add a delay to AoE portion of the spell, and an effect indicator to increase counterplay and afford it more power.
As long as it is not the garbage we have now. IDC.
: I'd like to throw out my suggestion to bring back the offensive use of her E. Not as a full on shield bomb again, but as an ability that can be point click casted onto enemies to do damage to them or mantra point click casted to damage them and everyone around them in an AOE. Gives you some options for damage when you need it as opposed to shields.
Bringing back Shield Bomb will not solve the problems with Karma. Ricklessabanndon removed Shield Bomb from Karma and it was put on Ivern. Shield Bomb is an ability that now exists on Karma. I would love to have Shield Bomb back and I won't be upset if it does come back. The problem is she will be in the same place she is in now if it does come back: an ability that already exists in the game on something else. Looking at the future health and growth of this champion, Shield Bomb is going to do nothing for her. Karma's Mantra E needs to be more unique to her.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 8
> Karma - Likely she'll be one of the most in need of work post 8.12 heal/shield changes. Penciling her in for a look as a result. I've had several conversations with you over the years about her, Meddler. I'm not going to go into it again and be rude. I really want a response as to what exactly is going to be done on this champion. It's been 5 years and 6 months. I ask if you are not going to address what is wrong with Karma, don't work on her at all. When you do small little number tweaks that don't address the core problems with Karma, it gets nerfed and she is waiting another year or two for the same type of work. I mean you buffed her Mantra E and it was nerfed a few months later. Nothing the Developers have done on this kit is working out and some of us have been telling you this for years. The following needs to be addressed or don't bother working on Karma. 1) Move Karma's current passive to her Ultimate. Karma needs a new passive that makes her more interactive with other parts of her kit or gameplay. Give Karma auto attack passive so she is rewarded for making risky plays and it plays off of the AA feature of her current passive. 2) Karma's W or Mantra W needs some sort of ally function. The Mantra W needs scalings that fit a mage more than a tank. The current Mantra W is being abused and it is not fun to play against. This is probably one of the worst abilities in her kit that needs a lot of work or just be replaced with something all together. 3) Karma's Mantra E needs to be completely re-imagined. Karma's Mantra E is two item actives bundled into one ability. It's not unique, it is not fun, and it doesn't offer anything unique to the game. History has shown the only part of her kit that is ever worked on Karma is this ability and it is not even that special. Simply putting Shield Bomb back on Karma is not going to solve the problems either. It was removed from Karma for the wrong reasons and put on a new champion, Ivern. Simply putting the ability back on her is not going to make her any better and she will be compared to Ivern. Give us something unique with Kamra's Mantra E because you never should have removed Shield Bomb in the first place. Karma needs a new way to use her shields and that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be shield bomb or the current iteration of it. 4) Give Karma an actual identity other than some generalist champion that can do sub-par things that other champions do 10x better. Her Mantra abilities fit different types of playstyles which gives Karma no true identity. It's not good gameplay, good champion design, and it is not fun to play as or against. Karma needs an identity, but that doesn't mean that identity should be a support that sits in the back and presses Mantra E the entire game. Serious work needs to be done on Karma to discover exactly WHO she is and what she offers to the game. Karma does a lot of things that another champion does much better. ----------- What will not be addressed but should be addressed: 1) Karma has incomplete art assets such as no shield casting animation or running animation. She has a taunt that already exists on a champion. Her VO and interactions no longer work with her new lore and was never very exciting or completed to begin with. -------------- In conclusion, Meddler, Karma doesn't need a VGU before a plethora of champions that need it. Karma's model isn't even that terrible compared to other ones. The problem is 5 years and 6 months ago she was given a relaunch that removed practically everything players loved about her. Since that relaunch nothing has been done to bring back things players liked and it has been very frustrating trying to get any Developer to communicate and actually work on Karma. There should be no excuse that in 5 years and 6 months that Karma cannot get any "real" work done on her. Players don't mean to be mean, hurt your feelings, and insult you. They are fed up and tired of it. New champions get prioritized reworks, popular champions get prioritized reworks, and the same champions that actually need a lot of work get ignored year after year. Enough is enough. I apologize to you if I get feisty and hurt your feelings. It is not my intent. I am just sick and tired of beating an old horse to no avail. - Miss Vanjie.
Mesah (EUNE)
: Riot,stop ruining the game with these terrible patches or you will literally lose your players
The problem is they are changing too much for the sake of change. I don't see the problem nessecarily being their approach to the patch cyle but the need to constantly change the game for the sake of change. It's all been in the middle of the season as well and players are tired of trying to have to learn something every single week. 1) Minion health and csing changes. 2) Mana changes. 3) Baron changes. 4) Unnecessary Scuttle changes. ------- Players are tired of it. Just let the game settle and work on your God damn champions that actually need the work.
La Bello (NA)
: "we need to worry about balance until preseason" what? lol it shouldnt take like 9 different patches to get balance sorted. how about sending some more champ reworks our way? Champions like {{champion:36}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:90}} have DESIGN problems not NUMBER problems. Tweaking an ability by 5 damage here or cooldown by 2 seconds there wont fix shit. You guys NEED to nut up and start fixing these champions that have been in your game for over 8~9 years now. Supports dont need across the board shield duration nerfs. They need a rework to shields period. Mundo/Singed shouldn't be buffed to the point of viability as when they are strong they arent fun to play AGAINST. There is no way you can actually achieve true balance until you decide to start reworking the other 1/3rd of your roster. Winrates are not **FUNRATEs**. even if Teemo has a 50% perfect winrate that doesnt make him any less frustrating to play vs. like how can you possibly "balance" {{champion:203}} with small scale changes? or {{champion:11}} ? getting every champ to 50% winrate is easy but it should not be what you are aiming for. You should be aiming to actually go in and get the deep rooted problems. Forinstance 1. You introduced AP itemization problems but still nothing for AP bruisers. Everyone who wants to go nashors is still arguably better off just getting Lich Bane! Not to mention AP itemization is still balanced around this horrid double pen due to their being few options or ways around getting Void + Sorcs everygame. Also I still dont agree with Rabbadons design as a whole and I feel like the game would be better off without it and easier to balance (imagine if you will a game where you dont have to worry about random spikes of 300 extra AP or more mulplicatively scaling up certain kits). 2. Support items and support champions are all arguably overtuned. To get people interested in the role you powercreeped the items and champions hella hard come preseason. finding a better solution to support should take a good chunk of your time both items and champions can feel really overbearing with only a fraction of the farm other lanes need to be effective. 3. Last but not least what about runes reforged. tons of runes in reforged are simply not working out or are skewing champion balance. at least half of the runes in reforged need to be removed or reworked imo just from sheer poor design (Aery,Grasp,scorch,electro). THAT should be taking a good chunk of your time.
{{champion:36}} {{champion:27}} are slated for a VGU. {{champion:157}} he's the most hated champion to play against. They cannot give him any work unless they are removing something about his kit. No one likes playing against him. {{champion:102}} {{champion:90}} do deserve reworks and Malzahar needs a revert. ----------- Shields did need a nerf and the work they are doing; however, they should have the work ethic to address the fact that some Enchanter shields need to be more unique and stand out. I mean the problem is we have newer champions with more interesting mechanics with their shields than just some stat buff.
: Again, this: >This is a reflection of your work ethic and refusal to do anything on her for 5 years and 6 months now isn't constructive criticism. That isn't a relative thing. Saying "well serial killers are worse" at a murder trial isn't a great defense. As I've said, I think the frustration is valid, but ignoring everything Riot has said about why they haven't touched her (and why they generally don't touch all the champs all the time) is a great way to get ignored yourself. I'm not here to call everyone upset about Karma a whiny baby, I'm here to point out that attacking them is not an effective strategy. You're the second person that has already had a 10x better tone than the OP. It's isn't hard to be respectful, and you're proving it! Now, I do refute that it's a lazy approach; I think that's, again, an ad hominem attack. It simply undermines your position. When you attack the people, you're asking to get ignored. The phrase "you catch more flies with honey" exists for a reason. Riot employees are only human, and whether they like it or not, they *are* affected by our posts here. If you treat them like shit and bad-mouth them constantly, it makes them *not* want to work on your champ. I'm sure it's a lot more fun to work on champs where the playerbase is appreciative and understanding about their time constraints, and even helps out with *constructive* criticism and ideas. The community on Boards, for some reason, thinks that shitting on Riot constantly is effective or justified. My personal opinion is that's because the community is dominated by loud, immature voices. Do not let those people steer you wrong. The more measured and mature you are, the better chance you have of a useful outcome around here. Don't let the 12-year olds who think they are cool for cussing out Riot lead to believe otherwise.
It's a fact though. What I posted is a fact and if they find it insulting, maybe the Developers should change their approach. I mean what they do is work on champions that don't need to be worked on, screw them up, and then spend the rest of the time reverting everything that they didn't need to work on. Year after year the champions that actually need work are ignored for the same work on champions that don't need it. The past 5 years and 6 months have shown that Riot Games worked on champions like LB, Kogmaw, Rengar, and many others that have all been reverted . . . . because they probably needed a VGU more than a kit rework. The Developers aren't learning from their mistakes. They are just working on Ryze, Ahri, Lux, Jinx and new champions now. This is a reflection of their work ethic. I am not insulting them, being harsh and being rude. IT'S THEIR WORK ETHIC AND CHOICES THAT HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF SHOWING THAT THEY ARE DOING IT. Stop trying to make these Developers out to be these amazing content providers. They are . . . for Ahri, Lux, Ryze, and the same champions every year.
: Zyra too. Many Zyra’s mains also wanted her revert, in the current state there are no windows for a good balance for her.
: Ahri didn't need work. She was a healthy balanced champion. Her new passive sucks, and so does charmp amp. It's never 20% in reality, and 53 base damage @18 with full combo isn't much anyway. Also makes her so binary, can't combo freely anymore etc. I have no idea why they don't touch up Nunu, Mordekaiser etc, give Udyr a new model instead... When it ain't broke, don't fix it. Sincerely, a salty ex-Ahri main
: What makes Karma so fucking special then? She’s been in and out of viability competitively and isn’t badly designed, so why do you think she needs special treatment? There are plenty of other worse, forgotten champs like Morde and Shaco. Take you entitled aggression elsewhere
She is badly designed. Q poke mage. W fits a tank. E fits a support. She has no real passive. She does damage early game at the expense of doing none late game and only being a shield bot. When they nerf the shields she is going to plummet even more. She is a badly designed champion with a hardly worked on thematic, art and all over the place kit. You tell me what Karma is.
: If it does happen, your going to be waiting a while. Judging by the times between the more recent reworks (urgot, eveylnn, swain, irelia) which all took a good chunk of time between each other and they still have to finish the aatrox rework.
Yeah. It's not gonna happen this year. I already expected it.
QMighty (NA)
: Where does Karma stand in terms of the gameplay update that's been mentioned numerous times? Will she be next up after AAtrox?
She doesn't stand anywhere. The work he is mentioning is probably another .5 increase to her Mantra E that has been nerfed and added. The Developers will either increase the AP rations on her Q to make her unbearable to play against or buff the strength of her shields. This is the only type of work this Development team and Meddler has shown for years now. He doesn't care. I have been calling this Developer out and communicating with him for years now. They are aware of the scope of work that needs to be done on Karma, but they prioritize work on Ryze, Azir, Lux, Ahri, Ezreal, Jhin, and probably Sol. They don't care.
: Chill tho. Look up a bit and you'll see Meddler is talking about Karma. Also you got to think about how they have to balance. If there are massive problems that need to be addressed, then they sure are gonna not waste time on Karma's mess. Karma is not a pressing issue, but she will be fixed eventually. And chill with attacking people. Meddler doesn't deserve asshats like screaming at him over something that isn't even true. Maybe if you framed your argument in the style of being a respectful person, maybe you will get somewhere.
These are problems they created themselves. They work on content that doesn't' need to be worked on but have an excuse for not working on what really needs to. After five years and six months of dealing with Meddler, Morello, and Reav3s . . . there is no excuse as to why Karma cannot have any work done on her. Dedicated Karma mains and myself have been creating threads for years now asking this single Developer to work on a champion that has been blatantly ignored for years now. Every year he says she needs work, has an identity problem, is a mess, and will probably get work done later on in the year. I only started being vocal 3 to 4 years ago and communicating with Developers. Think of all the mains who have been asking for 5 years and 6 months. Past and present Developers are purposely ignoring Karma mains and we are now getting to a point that being nice, offering our suggestions, and giving them the benefit of the doubt is not working. The excuses and community that is defending their horrible, bias work ethic is not acceptable. We have Lissandra mains asking for work to be done on her for months now. We have Morde mains pleading for reverts, revisions, or a VGU that is consistently ignored. We have FIzz mains waiting for reverts like LB received. We have Malzahar mains asking for his kit to be looked at since he is no longer fun to play because of recent work on him. Finally, we have Karma being brought up daily, weekly, monthly and yearly with the same passive aggressive answers that say they are aware of her problems, but choose to work on Ahri and Lux for more than 3 months and 4 patch cycles, give Ryze 4 reworks and 2 VGU, and prioritize work on anything that isn't the right thing to work on. Excuse me if I am a little upset and no longer care about your complete devotion to a Developer that has shown a clear favoritism towards the same champions every year. I no longer care about his feelings and I am not even being that mean to him. I calling him out on his choices and work ethic. His work ethic and comments clearly show that through-out the years he is aware of the problems with all of the above champions, but chooses to prioritize work on champions like Ahri, Lux, and Ryze every year. Ahri received 3 reworks the past 3 years that didn't really do that much for her, all because she had a sub-par winrate that has always been higher than Karma's. Get over yourself and accept that fact that there are a lot of players out there who are really annoyed with being ignored year after year for the same content to be worked on.
: >This is a reflection of your work ethic and refusal to do anything on her for 5 years and 6 months now. This is a surefire way to make sure that they don't come talk to you about this. They likely agree with you about a lot of these problems, but when you're openly hostile to Riot, why would they try to talk to you more? They have limited resources, and they have other priorities. That's the simple reality. It has nothing to do with their work ethic, and saying that seriously undermines your credibility.
They don't respond period. I've been creating threads, conversations, and active community involvement about this champion for 5 years and 6 months. Not a single Developer listens, comments, or cares. They talk about Ryze, Ahri, Lux, and other champions. They don't care. It's a shame I reached a point where I no longer care about their feelings, but I am fed up. A lot of us are fed up with their ignorance, arrogance, and stubbornness. They don't care. 5 years is way too long. Players are fed up.
: > [{quoted}](name=Vanjie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qOB3xX9q,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-06-06T17:20:44.052+0000) > > KARMA DOESN'T NEED A VGU. Ok, with you so far. >She needs minor work done on her animations to actually complete the animations such as a running and shield casting animation. Karma needs some abilities tweaked, removed and reworked so an actual identity can be put on this champion. Karma needs an actual passive and her current one moved to her ULT. ...that's a GU/VGU. A Visual(?) and Game Update. Not a Sion-scale or Galio-scale one to be sure, more like the stuff from the MYMU, but GUs don't have to rebuild the champion from the ground up. For a GU, we're talking major non-numbers changes to abilities ("abilities tweaked, removed and reworked", "an actual passive and her current one moved to her ULT") and playstyle (" so an actual identity can be put on this champion"). I'm not sure if animation polishing counts for the V part of a VGU; my gut says no. I heartily agree that she needs identity. I don't play her, but I know that when facing her, other than Q poke, I'm never actually sure what she's supposed to be DOING. Is she there just to poke? Defend the ADC with shields? Early game Brand, Soraka(maybe), or Vel'koz can do her job better. Lategame, any tank support with Shurelya's and Locket can do the same as Karma's RE. And in both scenarios, the alternatives bring more to the table than just the mentioned jobs.
I don't classify it as a VGU because her model isn't terrible compared to Xin and Cho'Gath. The problem is they slated Xin and Gho'Gath for VGU way before Karma ever will and worked on their art assets. It shouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities to work on incomplete art assets on a champion who already has a decent model but a champion slated for a VGU that will probably have those art assets removed . . . gets one. It makes no sense to me.
Rioter Comments
Lakrosin (NA)
: {{champion:82}}
: {{champion:9}} - VGU. {{champion:82}} - VGU. {{champion:111}} - VGU. {{champion:80}} - VGU. {{champion:127}} - Currently being worked on, but is doing better than Karma who's sitting at a 46% W/R (mid) and 47% W/R (Supp). Lissandra is at 49% mid and top, doesn't look like she's more in need at all.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 6
What is going on with Karma, Meddler? DId you forget about her? You promised us work on her last year and it is 5 years and 6 months now with no work on her. The nerfs to her shields are warranted and so are the shield nerfs to enchanters. Unfortunately I just love how you are not giving any of their kits compensation or actually working on them if you know the only thing holding them together was their shields. What are you doing about Karma's: 1) Identity crisis. 2) Incomplete animations and art assets? 3) All over the place kit that confuses players as to who and what Karma really is. 4) Bland and boring kit that has elements from mechanics and abilities already in the game. 5) The Karma mains who have been complaining for more than 3 years now for you to work on her. Maybe if you guys stopped changing the game so much and prioritizing work on champions like Ahri and Lux every year, you can get to champions like Lissandra, Fizz, Morde, Skarner, Malz and Karma. Stop with the favoritism Meddler. It is getting old.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 6
This year has been one of the worst times for me to play League of Legends. The game is changing too quickly for players to keep up with it. I am tired of having to learn some new mechanic or feature in the game when I already took the time to learn previous ones. You need to stop changing the game so much for the sake of change and just do obvious work at this point. 1) Runes Changes. 2) Minion Changes. 3) Baron Changes. 4) Mana Changes. 5) Scuttle Changes. 6) Massive JG Changes. Most of us are tired of it Meddler. All of this is going on in the middle of the season as well and effecting how well players play in ranked games. Stop changing the game so much so that players cannot keep up with it anymore. The Runes Changes were necessary and still need a lot of work. The work you did to Minions, Baron, Mana, Scuttle and the horrible JG changes didn't need to to be so drastic. The game is changing too much and the Scuttle changes shifted the entire meta of the game and now only a specific type of jungler is viable. Graves, Xin and several other early game junglers and duelist junglers are better in the jungle now. Too much power and emphasis is being put on the Scuttle and forcing players to pick a particular champion. The top 10 junglers right now are mostly AD and early game/duelist. The Diversity is gone and the enjoyment of playing your favorite champion in the JG is gone. Every single Developer is aware of how much the community hates the Scuttle changes. Get rid of it. I don't want to be forced to play Xin or Graves when I want to play Elise, Diana or another jungler. Some junglers are just irrelevant now because of the constant unnecessary and drastic changes you keep making to the game. Stop it please. Let players play the game they fell in love with and now the constant changes that you keep trying to force down our throats . . . for the sake of change and not what needs to be actually addressed.
Rioter Comments
: Riot I think you should take a look as this sums up everything.
The problem is they are reworking the same champions instead of working on the ones that really need it. I don't mind VGU and we need more. I have a problem when they don't take anything into consideration when they work on a champion. Karma.
Rioter Comments
: I quit League
I'm in the same boat. I don't think I can bring myself to come back. The game is not going to get better and I have been playing since season 2. The Runes made the game hard to balance but the Scuttle changes made it unbearable to play. The way the Scuttle changes work is you have to play a specific type of jungler to contest for the Scuttle Crabs. A Warwick is always going to beat an Elise in a Scuttle fight because Warwick can duel better. The changes to Scuttle crab they did to this patch didn't solve the core problem with the Scuttle Crab changes. Duelist and early game champions will always be ahead of another champion that is mid to late game and cannot duel enemies for the Scuttle Crab. I've been playing since season 2 and I can tell you the major problem I have with the game is the Balance and Update team and the choices they make. Every year the same champions get work done on them and this Development team uses the same excuses every year as to why another champion never gets work done on them. Where is the Lissandra passive? Fizz reverts? Malzahar reverts? Morde work? Skarner work? Karma gameplay update? Where is all of this work that should have been addressed the past couple patches, month and years? it's on the same popular champions like Lux, Ahri, Ezreal and Ryze. They just don't care anymore and it is clearly evident that this Development team never will. Accept their work ethic for what it is. They will never change and they will continue to be bias in their decision making. They just don't care. This Development team wants you to play specific champions and shift the meta depending on the type of skins they are creating the next couple months. I bet you 10 bucks there will be a Graves, Xin, and other early game jungler skins for champions.
Meddler (NA)
: Still looking to do some gameplay changes sometime this year. Not sure if there's anything on the narrative side planned or not, if so would be independent of that gameplay work.
5 years and 6 months. It has been this long and still nothing is being done. Please stop giving us hyptothetical timelines that will probably not happen. You said the same thing in November and she still has nothing. If this is going to be one of these situations where you say now she is going to get work done on her . . . and then in October announce that she has to be pushed back because Ahri needs another gameplay update to make her meta again. You prioritize work on Ryze and popular champions every year. It is 5 years and 6 months now. You really need to make something happen soon because it is insulting and says something about your approach to champion work.
: My take. > 1- Why exactly the big hatred?!? At the time when I worked on World of Warcraft, Blizzard developers had a pretty low social presence. The two lead designers, Kaplan and Chilton, posted occasionally, but the rest of the blue posts were really from the community team. Overall, the way the WoW team communicated to players was through actions not words. If you wanted to know if Blizzard though druids were too strong, you'd wait for the next patch notes. Before I went to Blizzard, I worked at Ensemble Studios on Age of Empires for 10 (!) years. I enjoyed talking to players as part of that job. I felt like it made me a better developer because I could ask questions directly and get more detail and nuance. (Note this was entirely in English, which remains a weakness of this approach.) Suddenly, WoW players were getting a lot more direct communication with a developer than they were used to. Many of them might not know a single person on the WoW development team other than me. There is this human desire to target another human rather than generically target a company, with reactions that are both and bad. So if there was something players liked, I received credit whether I deserved it or not. If there was something players didn't like, I received blame whether I deserved it or not. This being the internet, there was always a lot of the latter. :) Also note that I was never even the lead designer on WoW (my title was closest to assistant lead, but I shared that role with 1-2 other designers most of the time). Any decisions I made would have to be approved by the game director and production director. Blizzard being Blizzard, I was certainly not able to ram my personal pet projects, petty notions about the way games should be made, or bad ideas into the game. There is a Blizzard or even a WoW design philosophy, and at most one can influence that philosophy, not dictate it. But if you played a warlock, and you saw warlock nerfs, and Ghostcrawler posted about why we wanted to change dot scaling, then it was easy (if not completely accurate) to connect the dots. >2- What are the mistakes he did? I have made a lot of mistakes in my career, as anyone with a long career has. As I mentioned above, a lot of the things the community might consider mistakes were things that the development team (or at least the leaders of the development team) agreed upon, so in that sense these weren't decisions that I was solely responsible for. But as part of those leadership teams, I'm perfectly comfortable taking the blame. What rubs me the wrong way though is when a single person is given, by the community, that much influence over a product that is developed by hundreds of people. It's just not fair to all of those other developers who pour their soul into their work. If I sound defensive at times, it's trying to raise the visibility of all of those who work really hard to do the right thing, but remain transparent to many players. I think overall it works better at Riot, where players know the names of lots of Riot developers, so we seem more like a company of real humans than a corporate entity with one or two known spokespeople. That isn't intended as a swipe against Blizzard, because they've also figured out ways for developers to communicate a lot more to players these days. I also *did* just want to list some of the many, many mistakes I've made over the years, in the interest of being open. It would take a lot of detail to explore any of these, so these bullets may be frustratingly terse. :( * First, a lot of the mistakes I've made, players have never seen, because they were thankfully caught by colleagues, betas or playtesters before they were foisted upon the community. * Other mistakes get really personal (and therefore need to be kept private), such as hiring people I should not have, or firing people slower than I should have, or trusting the wrong people to get things done (or not trusting the right people). * Early in my career, I made the mistake of trying to imagine that I was a proxy for the player base. If I played a certain way or had a certain value, then lots of players should probably feel the same way, right? You can see this with my early approach to randomness in game design. I am comfortable with randomness as a player and view it as an obstacle to overcome, but I know now that not everyone sees that way. * Also early in my career, I fell in love too much with my ideas and wasn't as objective with outside feedback as I should have been. For example, I was insistent upon using Joan of Arc as the first campaign in Age of Kings, when part of the company wanted to use William Wallace instead. I pushed a fantasy story for the Age of Empires 3 campaign, instead of a historical recreation as our previous campaigns had been. * The WoW Death Knight was one of my first projects at Blizzard. I was attempting to solve a problem I perceived in WoW at the time, which was having dedicated tanking and DPS talent trees. With the DK, I tried to let players tank in any of the 3 trees. It mostly worked, but was a lot of upkeep for the team, and when the design problem was solved a different way (though the dual-spec feature) the DK talents then had to be redesigned. * Another early feature I did for WoW was hunter pet talents. The goal was noble, but the feature didn't actually add any depth because it was very solve-able. I'm not sure if there are even any vestiges left of hunter pet talents in the game. * When we launched the Cataclysm expansion, I championed making dungeons more challenging, because I was worried about the resonance (and therefore longevity) of dungeons that players could just blast through without coordination. I think this was the right call, but we didn't offer any alternatives for players who did enjoy a lower stress way to play. * I also championed Raid Finder based on the success of Dungeon Finder, but the implementation was pretty flawed, and encouraged players to just bail from any group that wiped rather than trying to solve the boss as a puzzle. This led to us having to tune Raid Finder down so much that the raid was more of a tourist mode rather than an epic experience. * Switching to LoL, I argued strongly for the champion roster project, under the belief that we could only solve a bunch of health issues with older champions by working on several at once. This eventually kind of devolved into just doing normal updates in groups of champs at a time (say a few ADCs at once), and some of those were not even particularly good updates. And of course, we really didn't fix the problem of having older champs with unhealthy play patterns or classes without really sharp strengths and weaknesses. * We built Dynamic Queue with the noble goal of letting players play with their friends and form premades more akin to the esports that we keep saying LoL players should aspire to be. But we were a little tone-deaf with our messaging, and it felt to a lot of players like we were telling them they were playing the game wrong if they valued a solo experience, or even valued competitive integrity over the ability to play as a group. I think we are tackling the problem much better in the new Clash feature (launch problems aside). * I don't want to throw players of these champions under the bus, so I won't name names, but there are a couple that I could tell were not trending well in development. I kept giving the teams feedback when I should have taken a more proactive role in forcing changes (or possibly even killing the project). * I could go on and on. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've done a lot of things I am proud of as well, but that's not the topic here. :) >3- How the hell did a marine biologist end up in developing games?!?!? I have been making video games for 20 years now, so I feel I am as qualified as anyone at this point. So the real question was whether I was qualified to make games in my first year on Age of Empires, and the answer is no. At the time, there were very few college programs in game design, and while there are more around today, the vast majority of designers we hire at Riot come with no education in game development. I applied to Ensemble looking for a junior position with no experience. I answered a want-ad, as one does. I think technically it was an interview with one of the designers saying they were looking to grow. They liked my application and I did well in the interviews, and thankfully, they took a chance on me. There were some skills that crossed over from oceanography to game design, but not many. The most valuable are probably communication skills and the ability to interpret data. I drew more heavily on my hobby of having played 1000s of hours of games.
As someone who knew of you . . . . now I feel like I know you. I think the community, myself included, need to be a little more subdue with our comments that are personally attacking Developers. At the same time you have to actually show the community, not words, that you are listening and care about every champion and role in the game. I want to say I understand Riot Games work ethic a little better, but I don't. I just cannot respect a Development team that blatantly ignores pleas to work on specific champions for years, to ultimately work on Ryze more than 4 times, waste months and months on Ahri and Lux only because they have a bigger playerbase, and decide to work on a champion because they have a spiffy new skin coming out. I understand you need to make money and I understand that skins are supposed to be something that makes a champion popular again so that is why you decide to work on them. Is that really fair though? I, and many others, have been campaigning for YEARS now for you to work on Karma's problems that were not actually completed and brought to fruition with her VGU 5 years ago. You are aware of the Karma community and their frustrations with everything, the hate about the new lore is very evident of that, but you do nothing about that. Why is nothing being prioritized on champions like Karma, Lissandra, Fizz, Malz, Skarner, and Morde? You are very aware of how the MAINS, and not the players that play these champions because an item or numbers buff makes them broken, and nothing is being done. These are players who have been playing these champions for years and some even the very beginning of the character's introduction into the game. You know this but work is being prioritized on the same popular champions and Ryze every year. Players are not mad or want you to lose your job. The community is frustrated with a Development team that has not worked on any of the champions they have been pleading for work to be done on for years now. I don't want to see or hear about another big Developer post about Ryze because for years that is what players have been asking for Morde, Karma, Lissandra, and many others. The above is just my personal gripes with the company and their work ethic. I am sorry if this attacking you or making you feel bad but it had to be said. The game is about work being done on popular champions vs what champions need the work and what the community has been asking for. There is no comparison or excuse why Morde, Skarner, and Karma still don't have anything being done for them when you have worked on Ryze more than 6 times the past 5 years. It's insulting and makes people think a specific way about you, because Morde, Skarner and Karma are a reflection of YOUR work ethic that you guys no didn't work out. Instead of working on them you sweep them under the rug for more than 2 years and expect these players to have patience with you. Nope. Not when I hear about your giving Ahri, Lux, Ryze, Ezreal, and any other popular champion another rework like you do every year. Show you care instead of talking about how much you care about your champions. I see you care about the same ones every year and ignore posts and requests about champions like Morde, Skarner, Karma, Fizz, Lissandra, Malz, and many others. Stop talking about Ryze, Ahri and Lux and actually start talking about the champions you blatantly ignore every year.
Rioter Comments
Phridolin (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Vanjie,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lmUsxWEM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-24T20:20:33.043+0000) > > Karma needs a visual update, VO updates and updates to incomplete art assets. Sona needs a visual update and VO updates. Janna needs a visual update and VO update. > > Everything in this game needs the work. Instead they are giving it to Ryze, Cho'Gath who is getting a VGU sooner than Sona, Karma, and Janna. They don't care. Karma?? Karma??? Karma got one back in - I think 2012/13
> [{quoted}](name=Phridolin,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lmUsxWEM,comment-id=00010004,timestamp=2018-05-25T11:53:15.640+0000) > > Karma?? Karma??? Karma got one back in - I think 2012/13 So greatly done and really captures the essence of unfinished work. I guess a no running animation, shield casting animation, resonating theme and identity means she is a cohesive champion in your eyes. Here, do yourself a favor and don't comment on my posts if you don't like me. Goodbye, moron.
: > [{quoted}](name=Vanjie,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lmUsxWEM,comment-id=000100030000,timestamp=2018-05-25T03:44:11.903+0000) > > No running animation, no shield casting animation, no resonating theme through out her kit or art. There is nothing in her VGU that was completed and her kit is all over the place in terms of identity and theme. You tell me what Karma does amazing that nothing else in the game can do better? Yeah, she does damage. Well guess what? It is blocked by minions, her only damage move, and doesn't do nearly enough damage it should be doing mid to late game. > > She needs a lot of things. Yeah . . . she does damage . . . but there is so much working against her that she needs something. Karmas damage is perfectly fine,i dont know what you're talking about. Not to mention she's a support, she has technically 2 damage abilities, and they can both be buffed by her ult, making them stronger. Have you never seen a karma support that got fed from taking her adcs kills lol? she can get you to half hp with one R + Q with eye of the watchers, adrent censor, and ludens echo. her kit is fine. yeah she's not the most complex looking or the best animated, but she still shouldnt get 2 VOs before so many champions that need it WAY more havent gotten their first yet. that just doesn't make sense.
> [{quoted}](name=Charm With parm,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lmUsxWEM,comment-id=0001000300000001,timestamp=2018-05-25T21:30:24.002+0000) > > Karmas damage is perfectly fine,i dont know what you're talking about. Not to mention she's a support, she has technically 2 damage abilities, and they can both be buffed by her ult, making them stronger. Have you never seen a karma support that got fed from taking her adcs kills lol? she can get you to half hp with one R + Q with eye of the watchers, adrent censor, and ludens echo. her kit is fine. yeah she's not the most complex looking or the best animated, but she still shouldnt get 2 VOs before so many champions that need it WAY more havent gotten their first yet. that just doesn't make sense. Don't tell me, loser . . . season six player? You played her one way, one time, and only in the support role. You don't care about the players who play her mid, played her since the very beginning, and are actively asking for change? Play her support and make yourself useful. You are useless to me, imbecile.
: What We Heard on Ranked 2019
Riot SapMagic, is a vote to kick option being considered? I don't want to be the one but I am going to be the one. It feels like an obvious feature that should be in the game is to kick that one player who is afking the entire game, feeding relentlessly and is toxic, is being toxic and spamming surrender, and just not a team player. If you want a real way to deal with players that are being toxic and ruining the ranked experience, take away their ability to actually play ranked games if they don't deserve it. The typical player wants to play out a game and try to win it and have fun. There is always that one player who has to be the one to ruin it, is toxic, and feeding. He or she shouldn't have the opportunity to play ranked if they are going to act like this. Here you are expecting your community time and time again to be the bigger people and just report, report, report and file tickets. Your punishment system is seriously flawed in the sense that it is essentially punishing everyone that is just trying to climb in your toxic ranked community. I don't want to play the game anymore and I don't want to play ranked anymore. -------- When a player meets a specific set of requirements to warrant a kick from the game and punishment, remove that player and punish him/her. Replace the player or just allow the other players the opportunity to play and try to win the game. Often times it is better to remove the root of the problem so players can focus on the game rather than that one player who is feeding the entire game and is being toxic about it. https://imgur.com/a/cUovRIq Xerath decided it was everyone elses fault he fed his lane 5 deaths and proceeded to feed and then spam surrender the entire game. When he finally got a few kills he died for the last time and was unwilling to play with everyone and try his best. He was toxic, spammed all game, spammed surrender and utimately left for 10 minuets because he wasn't getting his way. To you, this player is amazing. This player deserves to play ranked. He has the right as an amazing teammate to play with other people to end up being toxic, rude, immature and just leaves. This player matters. The players like Yasuo, Skarner, Jhin and me do not matter . . . but allowing this Xerath to play in ranked games really matters. YOU CREATE THE ENVIRONMENT AND EXPECT WAY TOO MUCH OF YOUR COMMUNITY TO HAVE TO CONSTANTLY DEAL WITH THIS ON A GAME TO GAME BASIS. You expect your players to deal with this because you are way too lazy to work on your systems.
saltran (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Vanjie,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lmUsxWEM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-24T20:20:33.043+0000) > > Karma needs a visual update, VO updates and updates to incomplete art assets. Sona needs a visual update and VO updates. Janna needs a visual update and VO update. > > Everything in this game needs the work. Instead they are giving it to Ryze, Cho'Gath who is getting a VGU sooner than Sona, Karma, and Janna. They don't care. Why does Sona needs a VO, isn't she mude?
> [{quoted}](name=saltran,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lmUsxWEM,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-05-24T20:23:51.487+0000) > > Why does Sona needs a VO, isn't she mude? She talks to the player as summoner . . . . there is no more summoner. The game is an established universe.
: > [{quoted}](name=Vanjie,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lmUsxWEM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-24T20:20:33.043+0000) > > Karma needs a visual update, VO updates and updates to incomplete art assets. Sona needs a visual update and VO updates. Janna needs a visual update and VO update. > > Everything in this game needs the work. Instead they are giving it to Ryze, Cho'Gath who is getting a VGU sooner than Sona, Karma, and Janna. They don't care. Karmas already had a full champion rework, which updated everything about her. She should be very very low on the list for a VO. Not sure why you'd give her her second VO when many many champions haven't gotten their first yet.
> [{quoted}](name=Charm With parm,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lmUsxWEM,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2018-05-25T01:17:37.699+0000) > > Karmas already had a full champion rework, which updated everything about her. She should be very very low on the list for a VO. Not sure why you'd give her her second VO when many many champions haven't gotten their first yet. No running animation, no shield casting animation, no resonating theme through out her kit or art. There is nothing in her VGU that was completed and her kit is all over the place in terms of identity and theme. You tell me what Karma does amazing that nothing else in the game can do better? Yeah, she does damage. Well guess what? It is blocked by minions, her only damage move, and doesn't do nearly enough damage it should be doing mid to late game. She needs a lot of things. Yeah . . . she does damage . . . but there is so much working against her that she needs something.
: Rest in Peace TotalBiscuit
Rest in peace, TotalBiscuit. :( Very sad.
: Ap itemization feels pretty bland atm
They were told this and it didn't address concerns players had and wanted. They don't care. Adjusting a few AP items is the only scope of work they are willing to do, yet they added more ADC and AD items that both melee, assassins, and ADC can abuse all together. All AP users need is more diversity and defensive options with AP attached to it. The Development team was told this and they didn't listen.
CLG ear (NA)
: Janna needs a visual update
Karma needs a visual update, VO updates and updates to incomplete art assets. Sona needs a visual update and VO updates. Janna needs a visual update and VO update. Everything in this game needs the work. Instead they are giving it to Ryze, Cho'Gath who is getting a VGU sooner than Sona, Karma, and Janna. They don't care.
: "scuttle timer raised"
This company just likes to make more work for themselves than actually working on the problems. All the Developers had to do was: 1) Decrease EXP earned from JG camps so it stops early game ganks. 2) Nerf specific junglers like Graves, Xin, and others. 3) Buff junglerst that are non-existant in the jungle right now. 4) Buff Runic echos and make it easier for AP junglers to do their job in the JG. Instead they: 1) Alienated almost all junglers that are not early game and cannot duel against the Scuttle. 2) Gave way too much importance to Scuttle that gives too much EXP and gold . . . . which is the sole reason why a jungler will now lose in the JG. 3) If a jungler does not get scuttle crabs they are behind 2 levels and in gold . . . . no matter how many times they gank or farm their jungle . . . the jungler will always be behind. 4) Midlane is taking smite. --------------- They didn't actually work on the problems. They just increased more work for themselves and more balancing for champions. It's going to take 6 plus months to get the jungle back on track . . . if it ever will. Adding a spiffy new mechanic into the JG is not what it needed. To Riot Games . . . that was the answer though.
Fasmodey (EUW)
: Zoe needs adjustments, again.
She is fine. Before her nerfs I would have said she needed them but they put her in a state that she has to do well to actually do well. This seperates the players that took the time to play Zoe and do good on her than the ones who whine about her because they cannot dodge a skillshot. She is fine.
: > I wonder if I get a red response on this... Sure, I'll give you a red response on this. You guys still seem to make a lot of assumptions about how we work. The League org is really big. It is big partially because we are our own publisher and partially just because it's a big game with a lot of moving parts. Our organizational structure is to have a lot of smaller teams focused on specific problem spaces. For example the Live team makes the patch to patch balance changes, and overall focuses on problems like game health, fairness, and frustration. There is a different team that works to improve matchmaking and another that builds new game modes. In that environment, it's not any one person's job to go around and say "Hey I have this personal value, so you need to start implementing the game in this particular way." If I left the team tomorrow and another designer took my place, it would be really hard to detect any difference from the viewpoint of a player. What you see are Riot values and League values, not my values. I have also personally been focusing a lot lately on features like the new player overhaul and Clash (and some things we haven't talked about), so if anything I'm a little out of touch with recent gameplay changes. But that's fine, because I have very capable leads like Meddler who do keep in touch with that part of the game. Like I said, large org. All of that said, I'm fine with you blaming me for anything in the game that you find annoying or just don't like. But that's not because I go down to the champion pit and tell them to design champions to fulfill a particular vision. Maybe I've been focused on the wrong things in the short term, or maybe our high-level philosophy isn't being acted upon, or maybe we just have the wrong designers working on the wrong problems in some places. All of those things are also my problems to solve. To address some of the other points: * We've heard a lot of feedback from players that we've shifted the game too far from solo carry potential to team coordination mattering too much. It's something we are working to change. * The jungle changes were not made to shift power to a particular subset of junglers. They were overall made because we were concerned that junglers had too much effect on the outcome of the early game and we wanted to slow that first gank down just a little bit (that is oversimplifying a lot, but that's the basic idea). Systemic changes like this can definitely impact individual champions, and we shake those out over time. If the goal had been to just buff duelist-type junglers, we would have just said that and could have enacted it much more simply. * It is a constant struggle for us to decide what to change without changing too much. I am 100% certain that players would get bored and move away from the game if we just decided to stop trying to improve it over time, and we want to create a game that is around for years or decades. We know there is a cost to any change we make to League. There's a cost if you have to relearn something. There's a cost if you just don't like a change we made. We understand that and we try to only make changes that leave the game in a better state than it was before, but we definitely take steps backwards in order to take steps forward from time to time. All of our changes have goals though, and if the goals are unclear (and I think they were for the jungle changes mentioned above) then that's a communication failure on our part. At least then you can challenge whether you disagree with the goals, or whether you agree with the goals and just disagree that the specific implementation will deliver on them. * Overall, I am concerned that we put a lot of different things into new and updated champion kits these days. It is done with a noble purpose of making sure that you guys get excited about new champs, but it does mean a lot of our newer offerings are much more complicated than our older champions. We need to get better about being happier (and making sure you guys are happy) with some champions with relatively simple kits with maybe one or two complex abilities instead of all 4 (5 if you count the passive) requiring a lot of information to play around. (I often wonder how well a Lux or Jinx would do today if they were new champions.) On the other hand, I don't think the mobility arms race (or shield arms race or range arms race) is as bad as players sometimes like to argue. Very mobile champions can still have sharp weaknesses. It's harder for champs who can do everything really well to have sharp weaknesses, but usually this just manifests as their strengths not ending up all that sharp, because at the end of the day, even a wildly unbalanced champion tends to have a winrate in the 50%s. So I really think what players are talking about here is the frustration it can take to shut down an enemy champ, not that they can't win a game against that champ. This is why some of the strongest complaints still come in about champs with strong duel potential (the Rivens, Zeds and Yasuos). Their winrates may not be all that awesome, but it can be frustrating when they catch you alone one-on-one. But I don't think in that case the answer is just to make sure their winrates are low. It also gets into the whole conundrum of how to give players more individual agency when some of the champions designed with a lot of individual agency are some of the most frustrating and most complained about. :( * "I mean, when you look at Ghostcrawler's history before WoW, he has mostly worked on RTS titles (he started with Age of Empires after all). Back in the time, no one was playing these games for a competitive multiplayer - people played the campaign, and the multiplayer was for you and your friends to mess around with during LAN parties (man good old times, when was the last time I had a good old fashioned LAN-party?)." FWIW, we playtested Age of Empires almost exclusively in 4v4 multiplayer LAN games. The ridiculous thing about game development back then was that was pretty much all we had - we had no way to gather actual data from players so we had to balance the whole thing ourselves (with the kind of results you'd expect). Now days we can gather tons and tons of data about the actual player experience. I designed most of the campaigns for the AoE games, but they didn't get a ton of playtesting. Almost all of our playtesting was multiplayer. It's amazing the games ended up as good as they did. * ''You don't need to play the game in order to design it'' Look, the people who build airplanes rarely pilot them, but they still have a pretty good idea of how one flies a plane. That's all I was saying. That quote (taken out of context as these things sometimes are) was in response to the persistent yet somewhat tired theory that the best players should be the ones to design competitive games. There are some players who are excellent designers (and we hire some of them), and there are other players who would be dreadful at the job. If you don't play the game you design, it will definitely be much, much harder for you to be effective, but yes, in a theoretical sense, it is possible. * "Problem with Ghostcrawler is that he thinks he knows more than what he does." Nah. You always want to be in a situation where you're the dumbest person in the room, and fortunately that's pretty easy for me at Riot. The problem with Ghostcrawler is he has less time to talk to players than he used to, and struggles to find the right format these days. :( Okay, that was a pretty long answer, but what did I miss that you were really hoping for an answer to?
I just see Developers making the same mistakes we had since the beginning of the game. I mean you can sit here and tell us all of this, but at the end of the day you are at fault. I don't care what you work on, what you do, and how well you do it. You in one way or another know what is going on. The community may be wrong once and awhile but for Riot Maple to compare relatively simple additions like Blast and Vision plants to the scuttle and massive JG changes, makes it seem like almost all of you are out of touch with your game. You should have known that these JG changes would alienate almost all of the JG champion in the game. You should have known that AP champions in the JG are still suffering. You should know that there are already four movement speed enhancing mechanics in the Sorcery Tree but you added another one for the sake of it, but continued to give other trees new runes and interesting mechanics. I've played other games you were part of, Ghostcrawler. As a game Developer I do not like your work ethic at all. I don't like any of the Developer's work ethic at Riot Games because you work on the same champions every year, you ignore the same champions every year, you add some new flashy game breaking mechanic into the game midseason that breaks the balance of the game, and you seem to think adding new champions into the game instead of working on existing ones, is the answer. The fact of the matter is I have yet to see a single Developer comment about or work on a champion that isn't popular, isn't new, and doesn't have a skin coming out the next patch. You all are stubborn, arrogant, don't care about the community, and you seriously only care about the same popular champions every year. ---------- I, and so many others, have been championing work to be done on Karma since her VGU so many years ago . . . that still has me hating this Development team. There are so many Lissandra, Skarner, Karma, Morde, Malz, Fizz and other champion mains, still, waiting for work to be done on their champions. Instead almost all of the comments you guys make is about Ryze, Ahri, Lux, Zed, and any other popular champion that had their kits reworked and numbers adjusted more than once over the years. You just don't care anymore. You guys have reached a standstill with the community and they are finally getting fed up. They are not mad, they are not calling for you guys to lose your jobs and shut down the game. Almost every single player is just exhausted and fed up with trying to wait for a Development team that only cares about the same 15 champions every year, when you have 130 plus champions in the game. You were told to stop creating champions and work on existing ones, but you continue to ignore the ones that actually need work. If you know Morde mains want a VGU for him and have been begging for years now because of your work ethic that ruined him, why is nothing being prioritized on him? Because you wanted to give Ryze more than one VGU over the years and give champions like Swain, Akali and Irelia prioritized VGU because you know . . . they really needed it. This behavior and hate towards you and many Developers is not hate, is not players wanting you to shut down the game. They actually want you to start working on what they have been asking for years to be worked on. To you and almost every other player that is not a Karma main, I am just a crappy, whiny Karma main that is still salty about her VGU. The fact of the matter is what you replaced her VGU with is unfinished, all over the place, isn't unique and is just disgusting to look at. For a champion I had a personal connection with and loved over the years, was turned into one of the worst VGU in LoL history. To you and many other players, I am just a salty Karma main. To me I am a player who cares about Karma more than a Development team that works on Ryze 4 times with reworks and gives him two VGU. Let's also add that Ahri has 3 patch cycles worth of work and Lux received 6 to 7 plus patch cycles worth of work. Choices. Your choices are always skewed towards the same content and champions in the game. When you start to care about that disgruntled Karma main from 5 years ago, that Morde main who had his favorite champion's identity ruined, or that Lissandra main who has been asking for a new passive for more than a year now, then you can come and say what you want to say. Actions speak better than words. Make stuff happen or it will just continue to spiral out of control. Listen to your community and stop being stubborn.
Bultz (NA)
: Nerf Karma
Far from it it. She actually needs a rework so maybe they can take some power early game and allow an actual identity in the game other than a backline shield bot.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 23
Instead of just adjusting the EXP values and nerfing a few outliner junglers, that were the real problem with lanes being ganked early, you mess the entire balance of the jungle with the Scuttle changes. The change is not fun to play against if you are ahead or if you are behind. You can adjust as many junglers as you want, specific champions will always be better in the new JG because they can contest for the Scuttle better than another. Specific junglers will always be behind for the reason that they don't have a kit that can compete with a Graves, Xin, Warwick or Lee Sin wen fighting for a Scuttle. You now have to spend more than 6 months or more working on buffing, nerfing and reworking champion kits to accompany the new JG. All because you couldn't do what was actually needed in the JG in the first place. The new changes have not been well received. Riot Maple wants to compare these changes to the Plant additions that came out last year. There is a big difference between adding a few blasting and vision plants than completely butchering almost the entire balance and meta of the jungle. If the champion is not an early game champion they will always be behind and cannot contest the Scuttles. Every single one of you Developers know this and understand this but you still let these change go through. Are you purposely trying to dictate that types of champions players use in this game? It seems to me you are because you just don't get it. Revert the changes, adjust EXP values of jungle minions, and buff AP junglers JG items; this was all that was needed to be done. You didn't though. You implemented a new JG mechanic half way into the year that has, yet again, dictating how well I do or don't do in the game. I'm tired of having to adjust to new changes in the game almost every month. Can we not have big changes like this not be put into the game until end of season?
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Vanjie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AXxPEAIe,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2018-05-20T03:37:24.413+0000) > > You are right about everything but there is so much more since season 7. I've been playing since season 2. It's just a long list of things they know is an issue and they are not addressing. The turning point for me are the Runes changes. At least they can nerf Ardent and make it useless. Now when a Rune or Keystone is nerfed, it effects a boat load of champions and makes them unplayable. They just really ruined the balance of the game when runes reforged was introduced into the game. Damage is too high, towers are weak, gamebreaking mechanics are not making the game fun to play, and specific elements of the game are just exploitable and unfair to play against because of runes reforged. The problems started going downhill because of runes reforged. > > I am also tired of new champions and popular ones being made a priority when they know almost their entire champion pool needs a VGU, rework, or art changes. New champions take priority and obvious favoritism towards Ryze, Ahri and Lux is clearly evident. > > Either accept the game for what it is and expect the Developers to fix things with hotfixes, or move on. If the JG changes are not massively changed, JG diversity is restored and better, and AP junglers are still bad . . . . I am leaving for good. I am still annoyed about so many things in this game, but something like the recent JG changes just makes me not want to play period. It's annoying to have to be forced to play one type of champion in the JG because the Balance and Update team cannot make it one sided. I agree with the top part that you said but "Either accept the game for what it is and expect the Developers to fix things with hotfixes, or move on" isnt right Riot cant just exsect people to put up with there lack of care to fix things. People need to start making a stand e.g stop buying skins ect dont buy from Riot online store (the board game ect) people posting what need sorting everyday and also stop watch esports as if people stop watching then they will have to listen or face losing money and sponser/investors at the end of the day money talks, so hitting them where it hurts is the only way
Exaclty. I mean the viewers on Twitch is clear evidence that no one has been happy with the game for awhile now. I still stand by Runes Reforged ruining the balance of the game. I dont plan to buy anything else from here on. I just bought my friend a skin for his birthday. That's all that is going to happen until things are massively changed. A lot of people are at the same turning point I am.
: Long list of reasons why Riot's team does a bad job (personal opinion)
You are right about everything but there is so much more since season 7. I've been playing since season 2. It's just a long list of things they know is an issue and they are not addressing. The turning point for me are the Runes changes. At least they can nerf Ardent and make it useless. Now when a Rune or Keystone is nerfed, it effects a boat load of champions and makes them unplayable. They just really ruined the balance of the game when runes reforged was introduced into the game. Damage is too high, towers are weak, gamebreaking mechanics are not making the game fun to play, and specific elements of the game are just exploitable and unfair to play against because of runes reforged. The problems started going downhill because of runes reforged. I am also tired of new champions and popular ones being made a priority when they know almost their entire champion pool needs a VGU, rework, or art changes. New champions take priority and obvious favoritism towards Ryze, Ahri and Lux is clearly evident. Either accept the game for what it is and expect the Developers to fix things with hotfixes, or move on. If the JG changes are not massively changed, JG diversity is restored and better, and AP junglers are still bad . . . . I am leaving for good. I am still annoyed about so many things in this game, but something like the recent JG changes just makes me not want to play period. It's annoying to have to be forced to play one type of champion in the JG because the Balance and Update team cannot make it one sided.
: im just gonna say this now, and i dont care what kind of hate comes after this. yes, jungle got nerfed, and yes, we are complaining. But you guys are also complaining about junglers being opressive, no? the objective of a jungler is to provide vision control, objective control, and lane pressure and get your laner ahead. and if they are camping you, that means you're an easy target. So play smart, outplay, use your kit and ward. its not impossible to get out of a gank (unless your in a CC train that is lol) now, why to me this patch is bad. ppl say its good because now they dont have to deal with junglers constantly ganking them. But that's also the same exact reason why its bad. see, jungle is now a feast or famine. Scuttle is something to compete over like drake or baron. And with this being said, YOU as a laner have to go out of your lane, miss out on CS/exp, just to compete for the scuttle crab since its now a mini-objective. On top of this, the jungle pool is GREATLY limited to champs who excel in lvl 2 fighting and invading. this can include trundle, gaves, kha'zix, lee sin, etc. BUT here's the catch. with the new jungle, your allied jungler has to fight for ALL camps in the game, which then means they have to constantly invade and deny the enemy jungler camps and kill them. and if you are not a controller jungler, you just lose that because you are not that good at early game fighting. and if you lose objective and river control and cant invade, you will always fall 2-4 levels behind while the enemy jungler flat out snowballs. and since your jungler is 2-4 levels behind now, it is nearly impossible for them to help you and get you a winning lane. why? because if your jungler is lvl 4, they are 6, if your jungler is 6, they are 9 if your jungler is 9, they are 13. Because of the lack of exp, if they fail to pick a controller jungler and successfully steal majority of the enemy junglers camps, it is now a unbalanced 4v5 because now your jungler is utterly useless, and now the enemy jungler has just snowballed hard, and guess what? the enemy jungler has just snowballed and now is very hard to stop and will continue to taunt you and beat you down to a pulp because they have now snowballed, and your jungler has no way of helping you. So tl;dr why this patch is bad is because not only the jungle pool is greatly limited, if your ally jungler is not hard fed, its instantly gg and there is no possible way they can help you or be of ANY use at ANY stage of the game because they are always 2-4 levels behind.
The only problem I have with the patch is jungle diversity. The changes didn't do anything to help AP junglers and it limited the changes to early game only junglers. It's a problem I know for sure they are not going tp fix anytime soon.
Rioter Comments
: This patch needs to be hot fixed or risk serious long term consequences
What I don't like is how the work was supposed to make it easier for players to choose all different types of junglers. That is not the case at all. You have to play early game junglers and junglers who can duel really well . . . . before level 4 to practically win the game. The game is decided by Scuttle Crabs but also the fact that a jungler cannot come back at all. All the Developers had to do was nerf EXP and nerf a few early game junglers. This did not happen at all. They put too much power into Scuttle Crabs and it is dictating the presence of the game. On paper it is not a bad idea. Unfortunately when you put too much power into one thing, it's going to create a mess. It also alienated almost the entire JG roster of champions that do not clear well and is early game. Either early game jungglers need to be nerfed and scale into mid to late game, or the changes need to be reverted and the idea needs to be severely tweaked. AP junglers also still feel incredibly weak and even worse for taking Scuttle. The top 10 junglers now are all early game and attack speed base.
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Vanjie

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