iDarkWind (EUW)
: Don't worry because they will tell you that all you have to do is to not get close to your own wave. In other words, _**don't leave your base**_
: Experimental "Max Cast Range" Changes Coming to PBE!
Have you considered trying this on any of the champs who would actually benefit from it? {{champion:99}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:26}}
Taylor D (NA)
: Please add Zyra's ultimate to this list. It's really annoying when you try to full combo over a wall and you start auto path running around because you clicked your ult slightly out of range. It's such a big spell that I don't think it's unfair to have auto max range on it.
And her W. I cannot tell you how many times I've cast EW and not spawned a plant just because my cursor was right outside W range. You're 100% right about the ult, too. The effective range is so much longer than the cast range that this happens nearly every game. Often multiple times per game.
Jikker (NA)
: Is no one gonna talk about URF?
Will be playing: {{champion:143}} W-max and let the AI do the work. {{champion:74}} Rush Liandry's and solo all the objectives {{champion:9}} Shit on Jax {{champion:117}} Shit on Diana {{champion:518}} W-max trolling. Shit on Nocturne {{champion:350}} Attached to Vlad or Fizz....can you even imagine? {{champion:203}} Shit on Zed/Yi/Malphite {{champion:3}} W max so strong {{champion:127}} Shit on most anything {{champion:133}} E spam is fucking hilarious Will be whining about: {{champion:105}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:62}}
Sirsir (NA)
: I wanna try all the new champs that I didn't get to try since the last urf. Zoe, Pyke, Quiyana, Sylas I'm mostly looking forward to Sylas. All the ults all the time!
> [{quoted}](name=Sirsir,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zZcAUh9t,comment-id=0022,timestamp=2019-10-16T14:40:14.564+0000) > > I wanna try all the new champs that I didn't get to try since the last urf. Zoe, Pyke, Quiyana, Sylas > > I'm mostly looking forward to Sylas. All the ults all the time! Except it's rather common for debuff timers like Sylas' ult steal to not have reduced cooldown because it's not affected by CDR. Same deal with Yasuo's E marks. Also Zoe sucks fat dick on URF because she has a bunch of static delays on QER, which is the same reason new Kat and Eve both suck when old versions were S-tier URFqueens. Sylas with W max, Gunblade, Deathcap, and Spirit Visage is....hard to deal with. Like almost Maokai-level hard to deal with. Would also expect Qiyana to be strong.
: Bring Us Your Bugs!! Celebrating 10 Years of LoL
**Zyra:** * Per https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-96-notes plants should proc Manaflow Band. They do not. * Plants are dealt 8 damage by certain ranged/aoe abilities, including Qiyana elemental Q and Yasuo Q. I get the underlying coding/ability tag issues are necessary for item interaction. At the same time, Zyra has tooltips also, and Qiyana should not be 1-shotting a pack of plants in an area from 900 range. **Katarina:** * Ult cancels under incorrect circumstances. Reddit has guessed that it's an interaction with Sylas or when certain cc's expire during the channel (like slows or snares). * Celerity doesn't work with W active. It actually makes her slower during W speed than not taking Celerity.
Häxel (EUW)
: wat the fck ypu trying to pull. > The AP "crit" stat is the Deathcap multiplier. In any event, this only underscores my point that AP itemization is not diverse enough. Thats bullshit. The Deathcap is not similar to 6 diffrent versions of Crititems,w here some give attackspeed, some Ad. Addding only MORE Items will NOT change ANYTHING. Cause EVERY ap champ scales with the same 3, 4 stats: You read ym fck sentence, see how Bruisers, Adcs, Tanks, Assassins, Entchanters scale all from diffrent stats - and simply don't get it. > Like every AD scales with AD. Thats like 1 thing they have together. Adcs have Crit Attackspeed. Other have onhit Attackspeed. Assassins have lethalaty(&Cdr). And Bruisers go over Health(&CDR), maybe lifesteal too. Still Deaths Dance&Ravenous go totaly diffrent way of Bt&Botrk. What you simply DON'T get is that no matter if you are an Ap Melee Assasssin (Akali, Katarina, Fizz, Diana), an Ap Range Assassin (Ahri, Lb, lets pretend lategame kassa with his mobility is basicly range), a Bursmage(Syndra, Ori, Annie, Veigar,...) a Battlemage(Rumble, Ryze, Vlad, karthus,...) Artilelrymage (Xerath, Ziggs, Vel'koz, Zoe), a Supportbotlanemage (Lux, Morgana, Brand, Karma...), a Junglemage (Elise, Nida, Fiddelsticks, Ekko) or some wierd unique ap champ (Heimer, Singed, Mordekaiser, Teemo...): They will allways scale with the same stats. Even if jungler/support have 1 item, Melee assassins and some of the unique oens replace mana for 1 other item like proto, lich or nashors, the rest stays the same. NOT cause there is lack of itemization. but because everyone wants the same and takes offocurse only the strongest items. Thats the SIMPEL reason riot not randomly brings in 5 new more ap items like players make up dozens of new ones on the boards. Lets give exampels so maybe you will get a hang on it. So lets say Rito adds this shiny new item called "DeathfireGrasp" for Burstmages to Burst more. Suddenly, Ap melee and Range assassisn also abuse it for their rotation and even battlemages like Casiopeia, Malz, Viktor, Anivia turn into Burstmages with this item and a mouseclick. Lets say Riot adds the item Zhoynas Hourglass" for amges to withstand Ad Assassins and maybe for some cool Fiddel Rubmle Kennen Swain interaction. Whoops, again every Ap Assassin uses it as another savetool, Seekers Armguard is a "fck you" item on Toplane as well with the amount of Armor it gives and even Supports can become unkillabel with the ncie Addition of Stopwatch. Lets say Riot adds this cool item "Hextech Glp", it builds out of a Catalysator. Well, sure sucks that it is far to weak to be build by anybody except Aurelion Sol and sometiems Swain. If you make the numbers broken, sure People might all ditch their previous manaitem (like how people used for a short time all Seraph instead of Ludens, NOT only Ryze), but then you also jsut make it more stronger for Sol. So you rework it to also be build out of the popular overtuned Lost Chapter, only to let it remain unpopular. Cause why should battlemages go this, if they could just go Ludens same as Burstmages, Artillerymages and Range Assassins. It just lacks stats that one class wants faaar more and is totaly unusabel on the other class. Health is it not. While you coulds ay Vlad, Swain, Signed, Morde, Ap Tansk would use it more, lets count facts: Protobelt, gets abused by Melee Assassins too. Rylais, gets either not used by anybody except Singed Sol or absued by everybody when to strong. So much of Health beeing alone a reason for a class. ABYSSAL MASK, NOt even an Ap item anymore, Health Mana Mr CDR, got also taken by basicly every Range Mage, from Casios to Anivias, Ryze offcourse, Veigar, etc. Instead of making it melee only (sucks for beeign Vlad/Swain), they toaly fcked up the aura range makign it even unappealing for most melees. So if you still don't get it, that you simply can't make an Ap item that either gets bought by every Class or by no one, max 1-3 champs, then youa re hopeless. You need STATDIVERSITY before you can introduce even more Itemdiversity. Or else you just gonna throw more and more oil into the fire.
You seem mad. >You need STATDIVERSITY before you can introduce even more Itemdiversity. You actually don't. You can introduce item diversity through passive exclusivity like Riot has already done with Haste and Hextech. You can introduce full builds through specific synergy like Energized and the Madness item set previewed (and scrapped) by Repertoir. They could expand Harmony/Dissonance, Dissolve, Eyes of Pain, Touch of Death, Echo, Spellblade, etc. to create item subsets tailored to subclasses - like they did with AD. >So you rework it to also be build out of the popular overtuned Lost Chapter, only to let it remain unpopular. Err....GLP + Glacial Augment builds are popular on Ahri, Veigar, and some other mages. >Thats bullshit. The Deathcap is not similar to 6 diffrent versions of Crititems,w here some give attackspeed, some Ad. If you split the Dcap passive into smaller chunks across an item set, suddenly it becomes a stat to itemize for. Instead of packing 40% onto a single item that everyone wants, you divide it into 10% bonuses across a range of items. Like crit. Not a hard concept. >They will allways scale with the same stats. You deal with this through unique passives similar to the way {{item:3174}} interacts with {{item:3028}} {{item:3222}}. Try to use some imagination for a second. Let's say you have an AP assassin item core similar to {{item:3147}} {{item:3142}} {{item:3074}}. Now imagine that the magic pen on these items are part of a named passive that disables Dissolve, and the Crescent equivalent disables Echo. Or imagine an AP bruiser equivalent of {{item:3071}} where the shred shared the named passive Dissolve. Suddenly you have new itemization choices that create stat diversity by *bundling* stats through exclusivity. There's some potential overlap and situational build options, but for the most part those items would be well-tailored for their intended users. Lux isn't going to want an AP Cleaver, but Cassio might. Katarina might not give up Void Staff, but Evelynn might. >Thats like 1 thing they have together. Adcs have Crit Attackspeed. Other have onhit Attackspeed. Assassins have lethalaty(&Cdr). And Bruisers go over Health(&CDR), maybe lifesteal too. Still Deaths Dance&Ravenous go totaly diffrent way of Bt&Botrk. You're just choosing to ignore the plain fact that ADs use every configuration of stats in the game, and you're trying to shoehorn them into tiny boxes to prove an incorrect point. Consider: {{champion:81}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:120}} All of these champs have meaningful variation in their itemization choices, and some even have builds that are polar opposites, like Lethality J4 or crit Quinn or AP-on-hit Trynd or crit Yi.
Häxel (EUW)
: > The AP DPS and bruiser item core has no CDR or sustain of any kind. Basically every other damage class has a diverse stat stick at its core, like Trinity, Cleaver, BotRK, Shojin, Dusk/Ghostblade, and Luden's for burst mages. Yes, that is cause every other class ahs other stats they scale with: Adcs scale with Ad, Attackspeed, Crit. Assassins scale with Ad, lethalaty, Penetration. Bruisers work aroudn Ad, Cdr, health. Tanks work with Health, Armor, MR Entchanters have heal/shield power. EVERY AP SCALES WITH AP. Sure, there is the raw exception of Ap Onhit like Ludens for Kayle, Teemo or Azir maybe and the overlap of Ap on entchanters, but that is it. Every Ap scales with Ap, Magicpen, Cdr. Most scale with Mana too except the Melee Ap Assassins who not have mana or can maybe ditch it (and even there is Kassadin again an exception). There exists no "Ap CRit" stat, where you could say "let normal amges build this and let Ap Assassins or Bruisers focus more around Ap and Mpen". Seriously, every Ap goes basicly Magicpenboots cause why not, they are most tiems the best. And if you are a range amge, you go a lost chapter item, if you are a melee, you probably end up with a hextech item ala Gunblade or Protobelt, big maybe a Lichbane. And then, they all go the same: Zhonyas, Rabbadnns, Void. It all boosts them offcourse. lategame scaling item infintiy edge or spear of shojin only work for certain champclasses, Rabbadons works for every mage. And they go like that not only cause it lacks on alternatives, no cause they are the best alternatives. No matter Fizz or Ori, they both go Burst and nfor sure buy a Rylais. You can't make an item strong for 1 part of the class and not attractive for the other classparts. if it is on one broken to pick, it will be pbroken to pick for everyone (looking defiently at Zhonyas Void Rabbadons). > Mages are still the only class in the game without items that allow them to top off their health bar out of combat or by clearing waves. AD dps have lifesteal, AD casters have DD, hybrids have Gunblade, and tanks have Warmogs. An AP version of Innervating Locket (with regen lockout on champ damage) or DD would be nice. Yes. Mages are alsot he only one who have nearly unlimited manapool in their itembuids. A Jax, a Pantheon, a Talon, a Draven can run out of mana. Mages later nearly never, especialy how they force to get bluebuff on them. Also no other class has zhoynas. Like, they literaly have an item with short cd, that gives them cdr, a good armor value and a devent Ap value, plus best itempath in leauge and probably best active item ingame. Ga, is 10 times worse with no Cdr, faaar longer cd, longer animationtime, less armor and an Ad value that is only good in Bruiser Builds maybe or if you get free ad/tank shred in your kit liek how vayne/Kai'sa get it, but sucks for the rest of Adcs. Gargoyels, laughable. You fck reduce your own dmg with Gargoyles. In Zhonyas you can even wait for your cds to get back up or continue dealing damage and effects on some champs. But zhonyas even fi you are no morgana/fiddel/kennen etc, is still super worth for champs like Fizz, Vlad, Oriana etc. > yet again ah yes, Aps getting nearly every year their ap itemrework. meanwhile Bruiseritems got shifted away from Season 8 midseason to Preseason 9 cause there was to much Adc/Support/mage change midseason. And then canceled completly. hmmm
>EVERY AP SCALES WITH AP Like every AD scales with AD. >every other class ahs other stats they scale with Then you contradict yourself by saying, "Every Ap scales with Ap, Magicpen, Cdr. Most scale with Mana too..." >There exists no "Ap CRit" stat, where you could say "let normal amges build this and let Ap Assassins or Bruisers focus more around Ap and Mpen" The AP "crit" stat is the Deathcap multiplier. In any event, this only underscores my point that AP itemization is not diverse enough. >Seriously, every Ap goes basicly Magicpenboots cause why not, they are most tiems the best. I think you're trying to disagree with me, but you keep supporting my point that AP itemization is boring, generic, and static. >And then, they all go the same: Zhonyas, Rabbadnns, Void. And again... >And they go like that not only cause it lacks on alternatives, no cause they are the best alternatives. Which is a lack of diversity. >You can't make an item strong for 1 part of the class and not attractive for the other classparts. You can. How often does Katarina build Luden's these days? How often does Lux build Rylai's? How often does Maokai build Spellbinder? On the flipside, you clearly see rampant item poaching on the AD side, from IBG Ezreal to Lethality MF to Shojin Sivir. In fact, Shojin *exists* as a response to AD fighters poaching Essence Reaver. The point of itemization is to have those kinds of choices to make. >ah yes, Aps getting nearly every year their ap itemrework. Wat
Meddler (NA)
: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/10/preseason-gameplay-goals/ Just went up a little earlier this morning
From Nexus post: >These will include **support items**, **lethality items**, improved top lane influence, jungle pathing improvements, improved dragon buffs, and keystone improvements. From early announcement: > [{quoted}](name=Riot Scruffy,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=BE56qAN1,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-04-05T17:45:19.464+0000) > > Some opportunities that we would like to pursue with freed up space > > * More choice and options in **lethality** builds > * An ap bruiser / ap melee item > * All around cleanup of **support items**, get some more choice in there and dont force players into 5 actives in one build Notice what's missing? > * An ap bruiser / ap melee item On the off chance you read this comment, I want you to know how extremely disappointing it is that AP itemization is getting skipped over *yet again* so we can get the latest seasonal versions of lethality items. The changelog for Duskblade since season 6 has the exact same number of entries as Gunblade since season 1. Here are the specific complaints: * The AP DPS and bruiser item core has no CDR or sustain of any kind. Basically every other damage class has a diverse stat stick at its core, like Trinity, Cleaver, BotRK, Shojin, Dusk/Ghostblade, and Luden's for burst mages. * Gunblade assassins have virtually zero itemization and build diversity. It is 100% mandatory and the champs are balanced around rushing it every game. It's especially frustrating that it's an extra cooldown/active to manage on assassins that are already some of the most micro-intensive in the game. The old Luden's was a competitive choice here, and it was just removed without a single mention of champs who preferred the old version. * Mages are still the *only class in the game* without items that allow them to top off their health bar out of combat or by clearing waves. AD dps have lifesteal, AD casters have DD, hybrids have Gunblade, and tanks have Warmogs. An AP version of Innervating Locket (with regen lockout on champ damage) or DD would be nice.
Meddler (NA)
: Her average win rate dropped a bit in both average and high MMR post patch. As usual with these sorts of changes though her playrate also spiked. Between less experienced Annie players playing her and need for people to learn the changes hard to say exactly where her balance currently is. Seems likely it's not dramatically higher or lower at the very least though.
>Her average win rate dropped a bit in both average and high MMR post patch. Should be expected when you obviously nerf a champ. >As usual with these sorts of changes though her playrate also spiked. Aren't play rate and "less experienced [champion] players" excluded from your balance formula? It certainly is not considered when a champ is nerfed, players abandon them in droves, and their WR re-stabilizes. Like Lissandra.
Łéø (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Vekkna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sEryBvQi,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-22T23:22:39.827+0000) > > You can do the same thing with Sej or Zac and *literally do more damage.* but his point was specifically on lissandra, idk why youre trying to compare with other champions lol
Yeah, and my point is that Lissandra has worse damage and cc than a tank while being far higher risk. Even amongst mages her engages, picks, and teamfighting are subpar. A suboptimal Syndra combo (QRE) can stun the entire enemy team from 1200 range in less time than the travel delay on Path of Frost. And unlike Lissandra, Syndra can actually burst an enemy if she catches them. >Her cc still provides great engages/teamfighting/catching someone out potential... That's pretty much all she has, and she isn't even the best at it.
: Lissandra is literally the worst champion right now.
>It's NOT that hard. The balance issue is her new passive specifically in high-elo meta where games turn on objective fights. Riot hasn't even acknowledged that it's a problem, nor did they attempt to tune it before skipping right to gutting her entire kit's damage. She's only good because she has incredible synergy with teams that will carry her. That synergy is her only strength, and the second you're in a game with a jungle that won't gank or feed you Blues, or a team that won't follow up on an engage....well you just lose.
Łéø (NA)
: Her cc still provides great engages/teamfighting/catching someone out potential...
You can do the same thing with Sej or Zac and *literally do more damage.*
: Yeah but these runes are too much specific. I mean somes champs benefits way more from a rune than others. Runes should be a little bit more global and less powerful. It's should just be a little bonus. Instead of it, runes make either champs OP, either useless.
I would also add that HOB has a lot of under-appreciated synergy on ADCs, especially when burst is so high and you only have a short window of time to kill or be killed. Examples: * Vayne 3-hit W * Tristana bomb detonate for jump reset * Ashe for stacking Q * Xayah for fast feathers * Sivir for super-fast W attacks * Cait for fast headshot stacks * Twitch for super-fast ult autos right out of stealth
Wacky9 (NA)
: Mordekaiser's ult can be countered (hard) with a QSS. RIP on the other two though if they get fed.
Not enough people seem to know this. Including most Morde players.
zepdrix (NA)
: Legit Question: Does anyone enjoy playing Zyra?
Speaking from 1,000,000 mastery worth of experience (plus games before mastery was added): No, Zyra is not fun to play. Not at all. Nor is she fun to play against. You can thank Repertoir, who will neither read this nor give any fucks. Perfect example of failing upward and mistaking it for talent.
: I enjoy playing her even after the horrible rework. And she scales VERY WELL, one of the best in the game at that. Once you get a Liandry's + Void Staff, you're golden <3 My combo is EW then QWR, but if I'm being jumped on, EWR, then QW while they are being knocked up during R.
>And she scales VERY WELL, one of the best in the game at that. 100% false. Post on your actual account so we can figure out why anyone would possibly say something so hysterically inaccurate. Her theoretical scaling ceiling is quite high, but it's purely theoretical after the plant hp nerfs. If she was a high-scaling champ, she wouldn't be rushing Liandry's and pen in the first place. She'd be rushing as much pure AP as possible.
Meddler (NA)
: I believe it's to free up power budget for the flat damage reduction being tested on her W which is a really powerful effect. To be clear though that's an assumption on my part and the right people to ask aren't around at present.
You said this would make Leo stronger against Kai'sa. Just makes her impossible against Zyra and Brand.
catchick (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Vekkna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jJm1PfAI,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-06-11T22:49:34.660+0000) > > I think Lux is a few small tweaks from balance. > > * Making Q cooldown 12-9 sec with skill ranks would actually make a pretty significant difference in bot. > * Eliminating the shield stacking but keeping the refresh on her W is another option. > * Reverting the R CDR on takedown should really be a no-brainer. > * Reverting the free lvl 1 attack speed would make her support poke a little less safe but would probably hit mid a little more. > > Honestly, any two of these would probably bring her back to par. Two of those were recently changed, the shield stacking and the Q CD, because they nerfed her E. It was a compensation buff. The shield itself only became so strong because they nerfed its move speed so they gave it a compensation buff in the stacking.
I'm aware. The point is to nerf her in an area with a known and quantifiable effect. For example, we know it was a pretty significant buff when they made her self-shield immediate rather than on W return. So we know something like that would be a significant nerf.
Barso55 (NA)
: Lux has been too strong and too safe a pick for too long
I think Lux is a few small tweaks from balance. * Making Q cooldown 12-9 sec with skill ranks would actually make a pretty significant difference in bot. * Eliminating the shield stacking but keeping the refresh on her W is another option. * Reverting the R CDR on takedown should really be a no-brainer. * Reverting the free lvl 1 attack speed would make her support poke a little less safe but would probably hit mid a little more. Honestly, any two of these would probably bring her back to par.
: This is so true. Pure tanks have almost nothing to contribute to fights these days unless that tank has cc {{champion:113}} .. Look at all the tanks that are now building their respective damage source {{champion:54}} {{champion:32}} etc or even going hybrid. When's the last time you saw a malphite actually go full tank vs an all ad team? Assassins and other classes should not be able to 100-0 a tank in a rotation and a half. Hell, when is the last time you saw an adc actually go after a last whisper item third or 4th, hell even second? I mean, look at the most common adc build. Ie, crit, crit, zerker, life steal and angel. They have to get the angel just to survive the initial engage of most fights til their cc bots kick in. As someone stated, they arent getting the armor just for protection. They are getting it for the revive.
: The problem is that resistances scale linearly, while offenses scale exponentially. 60 AD 300 armor vs 300 AD 60 armor, the 300 AD wins every time through autos alone, even without the 130 140 160 AD ratios on some of the basic abilities in the game. Say both have 3000 health. At 300 armor that is the ideal amount for gold efficiency, and can be achieved by some of the more bruiser items easily as well. 60 AD vs 60 armor (Effectively 4800 health against physical damage) = 80 autos to death 300 AD vs 300 armor ( effectively 12000 health against physical damage) = 40 autos to death Of course fights aren't just auto attack contests and there are other factors like boots or innate champion defensive tools, as well as damage from spells, %health damage from spells and items, armor shred, etc., but in the raw stats, damage outscales resistances be a factor of 1:2. But while we're talking about the other factors consider that {{item:3047}} damage reduction only scales multiplicative, not additive, with armor, meaning it grants effectively "12% bonus armor against autos," and the same goes for the effective damage reduced from {{item:3082}} line. Well not quite, because other than {{item:3110}} the attack speed reduction can only reduce the attacks down to 1 per second since they get their normal attack speed back the very second after the debuff gets applied, but we'll include {{item:3110}} specifically just for the sake of it. Alright so both boots and frozen heart applied, the 300 armor champion gets an additional 86.4 armor. {{item:3071}} oh {{item:3035}} oh right, the armor reduction and armor shred also apply multiplicatively to armor, and are twice as strong as the percentage increase from the armor items themselves. Actually more than twice as strong in the case of {{item:3036}} But what the heck, let's say the enemy ad champions are idiots and don't buy any pen because they figure why the fuck should they need to we're big strong ad champs 300 AD vs 386.4 armor (14592 effective health) = 49 autos to death Oh the tank still gets fucking demolished in any one on one against any AD with remotely comparable items. While also losing out on the wave clear that 300 AD grants. And doing less to towers. And taking drake or baron so much slower it gives the enemy time to steal them. Yeah no wonder no one likes playing tanks.
Correction: AD scalies multiplicatively. AP scales linearly, which is why a full AD team crushes and a full magic team is an auto-loss.
nelogis (EUW)
: Welcome to "What the hell just did so much damage to me?!"
This post was actually amazing. Been playing for 5 years, and I've always hated Garen, Noct, Udyr, Shyv, and Rumble for the exact reasons you mentioned. I would add Poppy to this list for Q and E double-hits versus Q/E single-hit combo. Still wondering how J4 can hit QER and assassinate someone and get a duskblade proc without any visible auto attack of any kind. Wukong does the same thing with QE - duskblade proc with no attack animation following his E. And I have no fucking idea what Riven is doing any any given moment. I just hear tick-tick-*BING*-eeeyaaaaaaah! and die instantly with recap saying a billion damage from auto attacks that are literally invisible.
: > [{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zM1VeIWz,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2019-06-03T17:17:20.682+0000) > > Think of it like this: there's no point in riot trying to make Zyra more mid-friendly if her mains are happy with her as a support and won't take her mid afterward. She's so rare as a mid right now that none of the sites I'm looking at even identify her as a part of the role. **THAT HAS TO CHANGE FIRST.** People have to know mid zyra is a thing and that's not going to happen if no one does it. > > Zyra's other problem is she doesn't have that many people playing her right now. At 4.2% pick rate she's definitely in the bottom half of champions played. Riot's not going to dedicate assets to a champ with a lower play-rate so she can play in a role most people don't play her. That's just not a great business decision that's a fair point
It's actually a terrible point. What they just said, in short, is that champ neglect is self-justifying. Champ has problems because Riot fucked up, players abandon champ, then the low play rate is used to excuse Riot from fixing their fuck-up.
: There are lots of problems with Morde's new ult. Like the fact that many champions just flat out can't 1v1 him and require a team effort to survive most situations anyway. I foresee this ultimate being extremely problematic.
It's unavoidably problematic and will be yet another Galio/Ryze situation. I mean....Morde can unilaterally remove any enemy from any team fight, no matter how fed they are. What could possibly go wrong?
: Please revert Lissandra nerfs
Aftershock by itself was never the problem. Even though it was popular in Worlds, she wasn't winning games. Her win rate at Worlds was 40th out of 43 champs picked more than once in the entire tournament. Even at peak bandwagon, it wasn't a balance problem in terms of win rate. The problem is her passive. The old passive had more power in lower elo and was functionally non-existent at high elo. The new passive is incredibly high-impact at high elo, all of which is new power. At low elo the new passive is a crapshoot and not remotely worth the tax on her kit and mana bar. Aftershock Liss existed for 23 patches in season 8, and *not once* was it a balance nightmare. Only after 8.24 did her high elo stats shoot through the roof. So please, for the love of god, identify the right problem.
MtotheN (NA)
: Riot should be very careful with buffing yummi
She actually has a lot of interesting synergy with things like this: {{item:1402}} Short-CD slow + Damage and great stats for a rush item. Cheap as fuck. {{item:3100}} Unattach W procs Sheen. Unattach > Passive > Reattach {{item:2065}} Obvious {{item:3148}} Big damage, big slow, short CD. Q gets max vamp, even while you're untargetable {{item:3907}} Stacks fast with W and E and nearby ally. Active increases Adaptive on W {{item:3089}} Obvious for W mid-late {{item:3030}} {{item:3905}} {{item:3146}} + Glacial Augment
: > [{quoted}](name=Vekkna,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=00800007,timestamp=2019-05-15T17:30:19.016+0000) > > I have serious concerns about his Q at this power level. > Fair concerns, thanks for posting them. We'll keep an eye on it, but so far based on our playtests it's felt largely the same as LIVE in terms of power/oppressiveness.
How many games were playtested in bot lane?
: Hi everyone! Appreciate the continued discussion around Malphite; clearly he holds a special place in a lot of people's hearts as one of the first Champions they ever played. I have a small update with where we're at: 1. We're effectively mechanics-locked as of the latest iteration, and have entered the tuning/number tweaking phase 2. To that end, yesterday I did some bug fixes and am currently testing a minor Base Stat clean-up. Those should be on the PBE today 3. Riot Beardilocks did an amazing job on updating Malphite's VFX across all his skins- check them out if you haven't had the chance! 4. Since this is an opportunistic change list, we still don't have a specific release patch in mind. Stay tuned! While not exhaustive, here's a breakdown of some of the major revisions I've made since posting the original change list. Still seeing a lot of people talking about outdated values and mechanics, so I'd like to dispel some of that now. **Passive- Granite Shield** * Size scaling has been refactored to account for the massive Armor values Malphite can get through his W. His growth spurt now caps out at ~700 Armor **Q- Seismic Shard** * AP ratio reverted to LIVE value * Cast time reverted to LIVE value * Q now checks if "stealing" move speed would result in a faster Malphite, and uses that value in the rare cases when it does **W- Thunderclap** * The much beloved 3x Armor multiplier has been retained * Mana cost increased to 30 from 25 * W's sustained damage and dueling potential was listed as a major red flag during internal testing, so it's seen a number of nerfs over the last two weeks **E- Ground Slam** * Mana cost decreased by 10 at all ranks **Base Stats** Here's the Base Stat clean-up I'm trying; definitely no promises that these will all make it through, as they're almost all buffs and we're worried this update is already pushing Malphite pretty far. Goal was to further solidify Malphite as the definitive anti-AD tank while indirectly nerfing his late-game AA damage potential, which was getting pretty nuts when building Triforce + Wit's End. * Attack Speed growth reduced to 3 from 3.4 * Base Armor increased to 40 from 37 * Armor growth increased to 4 from 3.75 * HP rounded up to 575 from 574.2 {{champion:54}} -Lutz
I have serious concerns about his Q at this power level. * 70-270 + .6 AP * 700 range * .25 sec targeted cast * 1400 speed * 8 sec CD * 20-40% slow + 20-40% speed When you compare that to Annie, Janna, Katarina, Anivia, Pantheon, and other targeted ranged basic abilities, Shard just blows them out of the water. A rank 5 Shard has the same damage as a rank 1 Syndra ult with 25 longer range, less damage delay, and double MS utility....on an 8 sec cooldown. This is basically just an objectively stronger version of Neurotoxin in top lane and Zephyr in bot lane. Speaking of bot lane... 700 range is longer than every ADC's attack range. The poke is unavoidable and high damage. He has a passive shield and armor bonus that lowers risk in a Q trade and shrugs off minion aggro. Even if you can trade back, lulmovespeed gives you a very short window to retaliate. Please consider *not* making this completely predictable and avoidable mistake. Thanks!
: Don't get me wrong, my main thrust is that I want more complexity added to Enchanters, and I think Yuumi is not only yet another simplistic enchanter, she also has an insanely boring kit. At least with a champion like Soraka, or Lux, or Janna, some kind of aim is required in order to land some of their spells, there's some more nuance to them besides being a glorified stat-hat. I think the Enchanter class is already suffering from a lack of mechanical skill tests, and Yuumi is just one more boring ass kit that is getting thrown onto the pile. There is space on the roster for an Enchanter with a really high mastery curve, and this could have been the time for Riot to fill that void - and Yuumi fails to close that gap. I don't see her adding anything amazing to the Enchanter role that wasn't already done by other champs that were already there before her. If you want a good example, look at the Taric rework. There are other Vanguard supports like Braum and Tahm Kench, and pre-rework Taric had a pretty similar playstyle to those guys. But reworked Taric created an entirely different way to play a Tank support, which adds a lot of variety to the game and has given rise to some (admittedly cheesy) new game strategies. I would love to see Riot create an Enchanter with the same depth of thought that they did with Taric. I don't think that's too much to ask, given how much people hate the Enchanter's hallmark of point and click shields.
Aren't these dudes kind of what you're looking for? {{champion:497}} {{champion:432}}
Meddler (NA)
: Prototype Wukong Changes on PBE Context
I couldn't care less about this champ, but I like that you all are communicating at this level with players who care about the monkey. It feels more cooperative/collaborative than usual, and I'm happy that Wukong players are getting some meaningful and positive engagement.
: Your examples are terrible. Ezreal is the only fully fleshed out minor VgU, the rest were kit updates. Miss Fortune had her model updated, but none of her animations nor her VO, which makes her an extremely shitty "update" that Riot still refuses to complete. I'm particularly bitter because she should have been Ezreal level from where she used to stand, but now that Riot has "done some work" on her, they won't finish her because "other champions need more." They need to fix what they started, instead of half assing something and calling it a day's work. It's insulting that they consider Miss Fortune even remotely up to the same standard as Ezreal, when she doesn't even have a proper recall, and still uses her ancient as hell animations and that gaggingly old VO that still references summoners. I would have rather they not touched her AT ALL rather than leave her in this ugly limbo where she's woefully incomplete. Additionally, your "small scopes" are also all over the place. Zilean needs a flat out VGU, he looks wretched, and Amumu is pretty close to that state too. Karma is a no-go, outside of a kit update. Katarina is also a no-go, she had a VGU in 2012 and a kit update not too long ago. Yi also had a VGU around the same time. Udyr needs a flat out VGU. Zyra also got her kit updated, and some polish with new textures that brought her very much to modern standards, so again a no-go. And finally Karthus, who is also a no-go since he already got a VGU in 2013 and he's up to modern standards - he might could get a small kit update, but nothing more.
I intended these as examples where gameplay was updated or polished in a way that showed restraint and respected player investment in the champ. I think they were successes because they improved the champs without doing much to alienate existing players. A few other points: * MF and Karma are in the same boat in terms of animations and being incomplete. So which is it? * When you say "VGU" that means "Riot deletes the champ and starts over from scratch." That's the exact thing I'm saying is bad. * Champs like Zyra and Kat are, again, in the same boat as MF with their ancient VO * At this point, most of the older looking champs have received texture updates on super old skeletons. I think Morg-Ez level updates would look great on champs like Kat, Yi, Sona, Janna, Karma, etc.
Reav3 (NA)
: Its something we are still open to do in the future, though we don't currently have any projects like that in development
IMO, reworks of that scope are some of the most successful work you guys have ever done. You all seem to really thrive in that space, and you do it pretty consistently. Examples: {{champion:69}} (S6) {{champion:60}} (S6) {{champion:81}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:8}} (tuning issues aside) I think you have some pretty decent candidates for visual and/or small scope reworks with these guys: {{champion:26}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:76}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:30}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Nea104,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nX38a2jE,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-04-21T01:21:34.573+0000) > > The **whole** Season 8 proves how much this has had any sort of effect. Season 9 is going exactly the same way: Riot not caring for feedbacks **at all** (not to mention the "useless boards"). > > So... Yeah, nice words, but facts have been and are (and will be?) very different. I'm interested to know of specific examples where a system was **blatantly** not in the best interest of a **majority** of the player base and feedback re; that was straight up ignored. Often times a system may negatively impact an individual, and for sure this does happen, but its done to try and increase the quality of life for a larger group of players (see: jungle plants which at first were given a **very** frosty reception and negatively impacted people who were adept at the old jungle, but over time were adopted and are now viewed positively). However, these changes are (to be frank) educated guesses and when they don't pan out I believe corrective measures have been taken (see: position ranked most recently, Leblanc revert if you go further back). That being said, I 100% know feedback isn't ignored when its is felt and shared by the larger global community. However, we have a **lot** of players and **individual** pieces of feedback may appear to be ignored. That I agree does feel horrible, especially when you are heavily invested in the game and its ecosystem. All this to say: we do, and are, listening to the community and doing our best to intake and respond to feedback (see Joe Tung's developer diaries & update VOD's). But its a lot of feedback, and often quite niche and individualized to a unique players experience. Feedback like that, when taken and put into scope of the larger **global** audience, might have catastrophic impacts and is thus carefully put away or addressed in a different method. Hope this helps
> [{quoted}](name=Bazerka,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nX38a2jE,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-04-21T01:38:35.720+0000) > > I'm interested to know of specific examples where a system was **blatantly** not in the best interest of a **majority** of the player base and feedback re; that was straight up ignored. * Runes Reforged * Mage itemization generally * Level 2 Scuttle do-or-die And probably the biggest and most obvious: * Balancing for pro play It is an objective fact that balancing anything around pro play is, by definition, blatantly not in the best interests of a majority of players. Historical victims include: {{champion:266}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:76}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:517}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:7}} This includes changes like: * Banner of Command and Zzrot yo-yos * Baron changes * Minion speed changes * CS bounties * Turret first blood to deter lane swaps * Repeated support item nerfs * Gutting vision across the board * Mage mana nerfs * Systemic nerfs to defense stats and items * Champ designs geared towards spectators first The list just goes on from there.
Reav3 (NA)
: I want to take a minute to answer this from my perspective. First of all our intentions of doing less VGUs and more New Champs was actually based on caring for the playerbase as well as from player feedback we have gotten over the years as we have done New Champs and VGUs. Let me go into a bit more detail though. First when I said less VGUs I didnt mean we would stop doing them, I just meant we would slow down. Expect to still see plenty of VGUs in the future, just not as many as we have been doing last year. The reason why I feel that his is coming from a caring place is this. There are many players that share your perspective, that they want their main updated, and changed. But you have to understand there are also many other players that love their Champion, and find it very frustrating when they are updated even if many other players think the update makes them way better. We have to care about these players as well, and whenever we do VGUs we also cause a lot of disruption and frustration from players over their Champion being changed. New Champions generally don't cause this player pain. Last year we actually saw a lot higher player frustration over change, partly due to how many old Champions we were updating and changing, with many older players feeling alienated by the changes. At this point, after Morde, many of the Champions we would consider for a VGU have much higher players bases then the Champions we were doing VGUs on in the past. This isn't to say there isn't value in doing them, but if we were doing them at the rate we were doing them last year, on Champions with bigger player bases, then that is many more players that would feel frustrated or alienated by the changes, even if many other players like them. This isn't to say we want to stop doing them as we feel there is value in the game feeling modern and up to date, which means we value updating the things that are getting old and dated. The Champions on the list just aren't as dated as some of the ones we did over the last couple years, and as a result the value in updating them isn't as high, and also has a higher disruption and player pain cost since the Champions have bigger player bases.
>Last year we actually saw a lot higher player frustration over change, partly due to how many old Champions we were updating and changing, with many older players feeling alienated by the changes. What he's saying is true, and I'm included in this data point. In fact, I filled out two or three surveys over the past year and this was my #1 complaint in all of them. How has that complaint affected my play pattern? Well, here's my ranked games played per season: * S5: 1096 games * S6: 1010 games * S7: 1304 games * S8: 846 games * S9: 5 games Here's a brief timeline of my relationship to champ updates: {{champion:17}} Mained in S5. Reworked then stopped playing him. {{champion:55}} Mained late S5 and early S6. Reworked and could no longer play her decently. {{champion:143}} Primary main. Survived S6 rework. Gave up a year after 7.24 hatchet job. {{champion:127}} Switched to main after giving up on Zyra, then reworked in 8.24 to current LCS-only version. In fact, of all the champs I've ever played that were updated, Lux and Janna are the only ones that I ended up enjoying more than the pre-update versions. And yeah, I'm pretty much done starting over...again.
: Item Shop Cleanup
>This leads to always picking whichever one is stronger rather than making decisions around the items' unique properties. Either we find better ways to differentiate them or we can just combine these items and retain both user bases Translation: We're deleting items that aren't used in LCS. >Give access to an effect (usually reactive or defensive) that we don’t actually want all champions to have access to Translation: We're going to leave all the free passive ass-saving procs on AD items. We're also leaving Duskblade and Shojin. Archangel Staff shield will be deleted because it's too toxic. >Some item niches aren't really something that any champion would want We're deleting items you use because you aren't supposed to want them.
: Here's How You Can Win More In League
Or you can quit ranked and be a winner 100% of the time. {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
: range damage debuff in aram a bit much
The funny thing is how the range nerf hurts champs like these: {{champion:31}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:238}} Like, Teemo's shrooms are already completely worthless with Oracle's, and now they get a huge damage nerf on top of that?
Meddler (NA)
: Possible, though when we've looked into cases previously there's been either little difference between mains and non mains or mains have been even more likely to take the most common option. Worth being aware of as risk point though certainly.
Isn't matchup difficulty a more salient question when it comes to Aftershock vs. damage keystones? Aftershock is a keystone you would usually opt into against many enemy laners with high kill threat. But since AS generally a strong pick, we can infer something about the situations in which players *opt out* of AS. Specifically, you might expect these matchups to be easy enough that AS is unnecessary or a handicap. If I'm laning against Renekton, I'll get shit on without AS. Odds are that I'll get shit on even *with* AS, but I improve my chances of survival. If I take Electrocute, I still can't burst him down. If I'm laning against Katarina or Fizz, I'm going to run Electrocute or Aery because it's a kill-or-be-killed matchup. If I run AS, Fizz still has overkill damage, and Kat will just blink to safety. But these matchups are generally yours to lose either way. So my question is this: Are damage keystone win rates inflated by players opting into them in the safest and easiest matchups? Is the performance gap further narrowed by Aftershock being the go-to pick for most really hard lanes?
94372148 (NA)
: %HP true damage shouldn't exist, change my mind.
I'll buck the popular opinion and disagree here. *However,* I will also say that the current implementation of % max true damage (and most true damage generally, for that matter) is not good. The main issue with true damage currently is that most of the designs scale with skill rank, CDR, attack speed, and/or stat ratios. In many cases the scaling is multiplicative and ends up being uncounterable by any defense. Champs like Vayne or Yi you have to counter with offense because defense doesn't work at all. So I think % max hp true damage has a place if it's implemented in the healthier way modeled by Red Smith or Red Buff. Imagine abilities like Amumu's W (without the AP ratio) or the DOT portion of Swain's ult dealing true damage. Those would be pretty healthy and reasonable uses. You could also consider the ways in which % max true damage could be used to *limit* burst, snowball potential, and problematic builds. Imagine for a second that you replaced some portion of damage/scaling on these ults with %max true damage: {{champion:55}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:236}} If properly tuned, you could use % max true damage to eliminate persistent issues of feast/famine or oppressive/useless. In most of these cases, it would mean replacing total AD ratios with a hybrid % true damage component and bonus AD flat damage component. In doing so, you also devalue the lethality stat. On something like Veigar, a % max true damage component is a way to cap power on a low-counterplay ult. On Vel, splitting his ult/passive true damage between flat and % would be a way to dramatically increase the threshold at which he can literally 100-0 enemy ranged champs with R. On Katarina, her ult is the kind of ability with enough built-in counterplay to support % max true damage over time. **I'm not saying these are real or good suggestions.** I'm only using certain abilities of examples how it could work generally or the impact it might have in certain frustrating kits. With the Wukong example it shows how % max true damage over time *as a component of total damage* could shift his itemization towards bruiser. Or with Lucian and MF, it shows how % max true damage can actually be more fair when compared to flat damage upwards of 3-4k.
: Lissandra and Morgana mid are getting nerfed while Zed is dominating the mid lane.
Zed isn't in pro play, so they'll ignore him for ages. Zed isn't AP, so they'll ignore him for ages.
: When is a good time to play rank?
The only good time to play ranked was before season 7.
Meddler (NA)
: We're confident both Sylas and Lissandra, need some power taken out regardless, based off their performance with other keystones. Extremely confident that's the case with Sylas. Fairly confident that's true for Liss too, though will assess post Aftershock changes and see how she's doing given it's been her primary and most effective choice for quite a while now.
Why not try separate ranged/melee values on Aftershock? Which champ is precluding that option? >Fairly confident that's true for Liss too, though will assess post Aftershock changes and see how she's doing given it's been her primary and most effective choice for quite a while now. My hypothesis is that the new passive's impact correlates with the impact of team fights within the meta. The lower you are on the ladder, the more players scatter like roaches. The higher you are on the ladder, the more team fights are choreographed, objective-based, and pivotal to the outcome. In a highly skilled and highly organized game, the damage potential, disruptive value, and overall influence of the passive skyrockets. Let's be real here: you guys took a sledge hammer to her QWER and mana bar, and it hasn't worked. I think that's because her passive and aftershock have game-phase synergy that hasn't been touched at all. Have you considered that at all? Can you at least tell us if it's been ruled out?
: Can it be that Liss's performance with other keystones is a bit skewed because mains are going for other options while the majority runs aftershock?
I asked a similar question weeks ago about whether other keystones are picked as "win more" runes in the easiest matchups. No answer of course.
Saianna (EUNE)
: Now when you mention it...
New items since season 6: {{item:3812}} {{item:3508}} {{item:3123}} {{item:3036}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3033}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3095}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3147}} {{item:3814}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3161}} New items since season 6: {{item:3102}} {{item:3152}} {{item:3907}} {{item:3030}} {{item:2065}} Removed items: * Banner of Command (AP) * WOTA * Abyssal Scepter * Zeke's Harbinger * AP Trinity * AP IBG AD lost, like....Brutalizer and Avarice Blade? The imbalance here is just dumb. It's not even a matter of AD having more diverse classes. AP has tanks, bruisers, dps, supports, mages, and assassins. The difference is that ADs actually get items tailored for each class while APs don't.
: Can we acknowledge that they have been moving in the right direction in some areas?
>I’d argue Season 9 is a step in the right direction compared to 7 and 8. Shit tacos are definitely a step in the right direction compared to shit salad and shit burgers. Tacos are better, but it's still full of shit.
: Why is witts end going to deal . more damage than nashor tooth.....
Saianna (EUNE)
: I'd say the item sustain (lifesteal + defensive steroids) is beyond good... But only for ADs
> [{quoted}](name=Saianna,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mHWvzWnR,comment-id=00070002,timestamp=2019-03-26T16:39:48.164+0000) > > But only for ADs You just summed up seasons 6-9 in 4 words.
: 53% winrate, 30% pickrate y 35% banrate
Riot's response: "Vayne and Jinx are looking a little too strong. To give their competition a fighting chance, we're adding 5 lethality to Dirk items, nerfing support income, and nerfing Zyra's plant damage by another 10%."
Meddler (NA)
: Yep, I believe those are all unintended (very confident most are, fairly confident the rest are). We're working on a range if issues at present, those affecting Zyra like that included.
Is the pet patch note stating that Zyra plants are no longer treated as basic attacks for dodge purposes (or defensive ball curl)?
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Vekkna

Level 219 (NA)
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