Meddler (NA)
: I believe it's to free up power budget for the flat damage reduction being tested on her W which is a really powerful effect. To be clear though that's an assumption on my part and the right people to ask aren't around at present.
You said this would make Leo stronger against Kai'sa. Just makes her impossible against Zyra and Brand.
catchick (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Vekkna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jJm1PfAI,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-06-11T22:49:34.660+0000) > > I think Lux is a few small tweaks from balance. > > * Making Q cooldown 12-9 sec with skill ranks would actually make a pretty significant difference in bot. > * Eliminating the shield stacking but keeping the refresh on her W is another option. > * Reverting the R CDR on takedown should really be a no-brainer. > * Reverting the free lvl 1 attack speed would make her support poke a little less safe but would probably hit mid a little more. > > Honestly, any two of these would probably bring her back to par. Two of those were recently changed, the shield stacking and the Q CD, because they nerfed her E. It was a compensation buff. The shield itself only became so strong because they nerfed its move speed so they gave it a compensation buff in the stacking.
I'm aware. The point is to nerf her in an area with a known and quantifiable effect. For example, we know it was a pretty significant buff when they made her self-shield immediate rather than on W return. So we know something like that would be a significant nerf.
Barso55 (NA)
: Lux has been too strong and too safe a pick for too long
I think Lux is a few small tweaks from balance. * Making Q cooldown 12-9 sec with skill ranks would actually make a pretty significant difference in bot. * Eliminating the shield stacking but keeping the refresh on her W is another option. * Reverting the R CDR on takedown should really be a no-brainer. * Reverting the free lvl 1 attack speed would make her support poke a little less safe but would probably hit mid a little more. Honestly, any two of these would probably bring her back to par.
: This is so true. Pure tanks have almost nothing to contribute to fights these days unless that tank has cc {{champion:113}} .. Look at all the tanks that are now building their respective damage source {{champion:54}} {{champion:32}} etc or even going hybrid. When's the last time you saw a malphite actually go full tank vs an all ad team? Assassins and other classes should not be able to 100-0 a tank in a rotation and a half. Hell, when is the last time you saw an adc actually go after a last whisper item third or 4th, hell even second? I mean, look at the most common adc build. Ie, crit, crit, zerker, life steal and angel. They have to get the angel just to survive the initial engage of most fights til their cc bots kick in. As someone stated, they arent getting the armor just for protection. They are getting it for the revive.
: The problem is that resistances scale linearly, while offenses scale exponentially. 60 AD 300 armor vs 300 AD 60 armor, the 300 AD wins every time through autos alone, even without the 130 140 160 AD ratios on some of the basic abilities in the game. Say both have 3000 health. At 300 armor that is the ideal amount for gold efficiency, and can be achieved by some of the more bruiser items easily as well. 60 AD vs 60 armor (Effectively 4800 health against physical damage) = 80 autos to death 300 AD vs 300 armor ( effectively 12000 health against physical damage) = 40 autos to death Of course fights aren't just auto attack contests and there are other factors like boots or innate champion defensive tools, as well as damage from spells, %health damage from spells and items, armor shred, etc., but in the raw stats, damage outscales resistances be a factor of 1:2. But while we're talking about the other factors consider that {{item:3047}} damage reduction only scales multiplicative, not additive, with armor, meaning it grants effectively "12% bonus armor against autos," and the same goes for the effective damage reduced from {{item:3082}} line. Well not quite, because other than {{item:3110}} the attack speed reduction can only reduce the attacks down to 1 per second since they get their normal attack speed back the very second after the debuff gets applied, but we'll include {{item:3110}} specifically just for the sake of it. Alright so both boots and frozen heart applied, the 300 armor champion gets an additional 86.4 armor. {{item:3071}} oh {{item:3035}} oh right, the armor reduction and armor shred also apply multiplicatively to armor, and are twice as strong as the percentage increase from the armor items themselves. Actually more than twice as strong in the case of {{item:3036}} But what the heck, let's say the enemy ad champions are idiots and don't buy any pen because they figure why the fuck should they need to we're big strong ad champs 300 AD vs 386.4 armor (14592 effective health) = 49 autos to death Oh the tank still gets fucking demolished in any one on one against any AD with remotely comparable items. While also losing out on the wave clear that 300 AD grants. And doing less to towers. And taking drake or baron so much slower it gives the enemy time to steal them. Yeah no wonder no one likes playing tanks.
Correction: AD scalies multiplicatively. AP scales linearly, which is why a full AD team crushes and a full magic team is an auto-loss.
nelogis (EUW)
: Welcome to "What the hell just did so much damage to me?!"
This post was actually amazing. Been playing for 5 years, and I've always hated Garen, Noct, Udyr, Shyv, and Rumble for the exact reasons you mentioned. I would add Poppy to this list for Q and E double-hits versus Q/E single-hit combo. Still wondering how J4 can hit QER and assassinate someone and get a duskblade proc without any visible auto attack of any kind. Wukong does the same thing with QE - duskblade proc with no attack animation following his E. And I have no fucking idea what Riven is doing any any given moment. I just hear tick-tick-*BING*-eeeyaaaaaaah! and die instantly with recap saying a billion damage from auto attacks that are literally invisible.
: > [{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zM1VeIWz,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2019-06-03T17:17:20.682+0000) > > Think of it like this: there's no point in riot trying to make Zyra more mid-friendly if her mains are happy with her as a support and won't take her mid afterward. She's so rare as a mid right now that none of the sites I'm looking at even identify her as a part of the role. **THAT HAS TO CHANGE FIRST.** People have to know mid zyra is a thing and that's not going to happen if no one does it. > > Zyra's other problem is she doesn't have that many people playing her right now. At 4.2% pick rate she's definitely in the bottom half of champions played. Riot's not going to dedicate assets to a champ with a lower play-rate so she can play in a role most people don't play her. That's just not a great business decision that's a fair point
It's actually a terrible point. What they just said, in short, is that champ neglect is self-justifying. Champ has problems because Riot fucked up, players abandon champ, then the low play rate is used to excuse Riot from fixing their fuck-up.
: There are lots of problems with Morde's new ult. Like the fact that many champions just flat out can't 1v1 him and require a team effort to survive most situations anyway. I foresee this ultimate being extremely problematic.
It's unavoidably problematic and will be yet another Galio/Ryze situation. I mean....Morde can unilaterally remove any enemy from any team fight, no matter how fed they are. What could possibly go wrong?
: Please revert Lissandra nerfs
Aftershock by itself was never the problem. Even though it was popular in Worlds, she wasn't winning games. Her win rate at Worlds was 40th out of 43 champs picked more than once in the entire tournament. Even at peak bandwagon, it wasn't a balance problem in terms of win rate. The problem is her passive. The old passive had more power in lower elo and was functionally non-existent at high elo. The new passive is incredibly high-impact at high elo, all of which is new power. At low elo the new passive is a crapshoot and not remotely worth the tax on her kit and mana bar. Aftershock Liss existed for 23 patches in season 8, and *not once* was it a balance nightmare. Only after 8.24 did her high elo stats shoot through the roof. So please, for the love of god, identify the right problem.
MtotheN (NA)
: Riot should be very careful with buffing yummi
She actually has a lot of interesting synergy with things like this: {{item:1402}} Short-CD slow + Damage and great stats for a rush item. Cheap as fuck. {{item:3100}} Unattach W procs Sheen. Unattach > Passive > Reattach {{item:2065}} Obvious {{item:3148}} Big damage, big slow, short CD. Q gets max vamp, even while you're untargetable {{item:3907}} Stacks fast with W and E and nearby ally. Active increases Adaptive on W {{item:3089}} Obvious for W mid-late {{item:3030}} {{item:3905}} {{item:3146}} + Glacial Augment
: > [{quoted}](name=Vekkna,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=WpJn3mE8,comment-id=00800007,timestamp=2019-05-15T17:30:19.016+0000) > > I have serious concerns about his Q at this power level. > Fair concerns, thanks for posting them. We'll keep an eye on it, but so far based on our playtests it's felt largely the same as LIVE in terms of power/oppressiveness.
How many games were playtested in bot lane?
: Hi everyone! Appreciate the continued discussion around Malphite; clearly he holds a special place in a lot of people's hearts as one of the first Champions they ever played. I have a small update with where we're at: 1. We're effectively mechanics-locked as of the latest iteration, and have entered the tuning/number tweaking phase 2. To that end, yesterday I did some bug fixes and am currently testing a minor Base Stat clean-up. Those should be on the PBE today 3. Riot Beardilocks did an amazing job on updating Malphite's VFX across all his skins- check them out if you haven't had the chance! 4. Since this is an opportunistic change list, we still don't have a specific release patch in mind. Stay tuned! While not exhaustive, here's a breakdown of some of the major revisions I've made since posting the original change list. Still seeing a lot of people talking about outdated values and mechanics, so I'd like to dispel some of that now. **Passive- Granite Shield** * Size scaling has been refactored to account for the massive Armor values Malphite can get through his W. His growth spurt now caps out at ~700 Armor **Q- Seismic Shard** * AP ratio reverted to LIVE value * Cast time reverted to LIVE value * Q now checks if "stealing" move speed would result in a faster Malphite, and uses that value in the rare cases when it does **W- Thunderclap** * The much beloved 3x Armor multiplier has been retained * Mana cost increased to 30 from 25 * W's sustained damage and dueling potential was listed as a major red flag during internal testing, so it's seen a number of nerfs over the last two weeks **E- Ground Slam** * Mana cost decreased by 10 at all ranks **Base Stats** Here's the Base Stat clean-up I'm trying; definitely no promises that these will all make it through, as they're almost all buffs and we're worried this update is already pushing Malphite pretty far. Goal was to further solidify Malphite as the definitive anti-AD tank while indirectly nerfing his late-game AA damage potential, which was getting pretty nuts when building Triforce + Wit's End. * Attack Speed growth reduced to 3 from 3.4 * Base Armor increased to 40 from 37 * Armor growth increased to 4 from 3.75 * HP rounded up to 575 from 574.2 {{champion:54}} -Lutz
I have serious concerns about his Q at this power level. * 70-270 + .6 AP * 700 range * .25 sec targeted cast * 1400 speed * 8 sec CD * 20-40% slow + 20-40% speed When you compare that to Annie, Janna, Katarina, Anivia, Pantheon, and other targeted ranged basic abilities, Shard just blows them out of the water. A rank 5 Shard has the same damage as a rank 1 Syndra ult with 25 longer range, less damage delay, and double MS utility....on an 8 sec cooldown. This is basically just an objectively stronger version of Neurotoxin in top lane and Zephyr in bot lane. Speaking of bot lane... 700 range is longer than every ADC's attack range. The poke is unavoidable and high damage. He has a passive shield and armor bonus that lowers risk in a Q trade and shrugs off minion aggro. Even if you can trade back, lulmovespeed gives you a very short window to retaliate. Please consider *not* making this completely predictable and avoidable mistake. Thanks!
: Don't get me wrong, my main thrust is that I want more complexity added to Enchanters, and I think Yuumi is not only yet another simplistic enchanter, she also has an insanely boring kit. At least with a champion like Soraka, or Lux, or Janna, some kind of aim is required in order to land some of their spells, there's some more nuance to them besides being a glorified stat-hat. I think the Enchanter class is already suffering from a lack of mechanical skill tests, and Yuumi is just one more boring ass kit that is getting thrown onto the pile. There is space on the roster for an Enchanter with a really high mastery curve, and this could have been the time for Riot to fill that void - and Yuumi fails to close that gap. I don't see her adding anything amazing to the Enchanter role that wasn't already done by other champs that were already there before her. If you want a good example, look at the Taric rework. There are other Vanguard supports like Braum and Tahm Kench, and pre-rework Taric had a pretty similar playstyle to those guys. But reworked Taric created an entirely different way to play a Tank support, which adds a lot of variety to the game and has given rise to some (admittedly cheesy) new game strategies. I would love to see Riot create an Enchanter with the same depth of thought that they did with Taric. I don't think that's too much to ask, given how much people hate the Enchanter's hallmark of point and click shields.
Aren't these dudes kind of what you're looking for? {{champion:497}} {{champion:432}}
Meddler (NA)
: Prototype Wukong Changes on PBE Context
I couldn't care less about this champ, but I like that you all are communicating at this level with players who care about the monkey. It feels more cooperative/collaborative than usual, and I'm happy that Wukong players are getting some meaningful and positive engagement.
: Your examples are terrible. Ezreal is the only fully fleshed out minor VgU, the rest were kit updates. Miss Fortune had her model updated, but none of her animations nor her VO, which makes her an extremely shitty "update" that Riot still refuses to complete. I'm particularly bitter because she should have been Ezreal level from where she used to stand, but now that Riot has "done some work" on her, they won't finish her because "other champions need more." They need to fix what they started, instead of half assing something and calling it a day's work. It's insulting that they consider Miss Fortune even remotely up to the same standard as Ezreal, when she doesn't even have a proper recall, and still uses her ancient as hell animations and that gaggingly old VO that still references summoners. I would have rather they not touched her AT ALL rather than leave her in this ugly limbo where she's woefully incomplete. Additionally, your "small scopes" are also all over the place. Zilean needs a flat out VGU, he looks wretched, and Amumu is pretty close to that state too. Karma is a no-go, outside of a kit update. Katarina is also a no-go, she had a VGU in 2012 and a kit update not too long ago. Yi also had a VGU around the same time. Udyr needs a flat out VGU. Zyra also got her kit updated, and some polish with new textures that brought her very much to modern standards, so again a no-go. And finally Karthus, who is also a no-go since he already got a VGU in 2013 and he's up to modern standards - he might could get a small kit update, but nothing more.
I intended these as examples where gameplay was updated or polished in a way that showed restraint and respected player investment in the champ. I think they were successes because they improved the champs without doing much to alienate existing players. A few other points: * MF and Karma are in the same boat in terms of animations and being incomplete. So which is it? * When you say "VGU" that means "Riot deletes the champ and starts over from scratch." That's the exact thing I'm saying is bad. * Champs like Zyra and Kat are, again, in the same boat as MF with their ancient VO * At this point, most of the older looking champs have received texture updates on super old skeletons. I think Morg-Ez level updates would look great on champs like Kat, Yi, Sona, Janna, Karma, etc.
Reav3 (NA)
: Its something we are still open to do in the future, though we don't currently have any projects like that in development
IMO, reworks of that scope are some of the most successful work you guys have ever done. You all seem to really thrive in that space, and you do it pretty consistently. Examples: {{champion:69}} (S6) {{champion:60}} (S6) {{champion:81}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:8}} (tuning issues aside) I think you have some pretty decent candidates for visual and/or small scope reworks with these guys: {{champion:26}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:76}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:30}}
Bazerka (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Nea104,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nX38a2jE,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-04-21T01:21:34.573+0000) > > The **whole** Season 8 proves how much this has had any sort of effect. Season 9 is going exactly the same way: Riot not caring for feedbacks **at all** (not to mention the "useless boards"). > > So... Yeah, nice words, but facts have been and are (and will be?) very different. I'm interested to know of specific examples where a system was **blatantly** not in the best interest of a **majority** of the player base and feedback re; that was straight up ignored. Often times a system may negatively impact an individual, and for sure this does happen, but its done to try and increase the quality of life for a larger group of players (see: jungle plants which at first were given a **very** frosty reception and negatively impacted people who were adept at the old jungle, but over time were adopted and are now viewed positively). However, these changes are (to be frank) educated guesses and when they don't pan out I believe corrective measures have been taken (see: position ranked most recently, Leblanc revert if you go further back). That being said, I 100% know feedback isn't ignored when its is felt and shared by the larger global community. However, we have a **lot** of players and **individual** pieces of feedback may appear to be ignored. That I agree does feel horrible, especially when you are heavily invested in the game and its ecosystem. All this to say: we do, and are, listening to the community and doing our best to intake and respond to feedback (see Joe Tung's developer diaries & update VOD's). But its a lot of feedback, and often quite niche and individualized to a unique players experience. Feedback like that, when taken and put into scope of the larger **global** audience, might have catastrophic impacts and is thus carefully put away or addressed in a different method. Hope this helps
> [{quoted}](name=Bazerka,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nX38a2jE,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-04-21T01:38:35.720+0000) > > I'm interested to know of specific examples where a system was **blatantly** not in the best interest of a **majority** of the player base and feedback re; that was straight up ignored. * Runes Reforged * Mage itemization generally * Level 2 Scuttle do-or-die And probably the biggest and most obvious: * Balancing for pro play It is an objective fact that balancing anything around pro play is, by definition, blatantly not in the best interests of a majority of players. Historical victims include: {{champion:266}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:76}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:517}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:7}} This includes changes like: * Banner of Command and Zzrot yo-yos * Baron changes * Minion speed changes * CS bounties * Turret first blood to deter lane swaps * Repeated support item nerfs * Gutting vision across the board * Mage mana nerfs * Systemic nerfs to defense stats and items * Champ designs geared towards spectators first The list just goes on from there.
Reav3 (NA)
: I want to take a minute to answer this from my perspective. First of all our intentions of doing less VGUs and more New Champs was actually based on caring for the playerbase as well as from player feedback we have gotten over the years as we have done New Champs and VGUs. Let me go into a bit more detail though. First when I said less VGUs I didnt mean we would stop doing them, I just meant we would slow down. Expect to still see plenty of VGUs in the future, just not as many as we have been doing last year. The reason why I feel that his is coming from a caring place is this. There are many players that share your perspective, that they want their main updated, and changed. But you have to understand there are also many other players that love their Champion, and find it very frustrating when they are updated even if many other players think the update makes them way better. We have to care about these players as well, and whenever we do VGUs we also cause a lot of disruption and frustration from players over their Champion being changed. New Champions generally don't cause this player pain. Last year we actually saw a lot higher player frustration over change, partly due to how many old Champions we were updating and changing, with many older players feeling alienated by the changes. At this point, after Morde, many of the Champions we would consider for a VGU have much higher players bases then the Champions we were doing VGUs on in the past. This isn't to say there isn't value in doing them, but if we were doing them at the rate we were doing them last year, on Champions with bigger player bases, then that is many more players that would feel frustrated or alienated by the changes, even if many other players like them. This isn't to say we want to stop doing them as we feel there is value in the game feeling modern and up to date, which means we value updating the things that are getting old and dated. The Champions on the list just aren't as dated as some of the ones we did over the last couple years, and as a result the value in updating them isn't as high, and also has a higher disruption and player pain cost since the Champions have bigger player bases.
>Last year we actually saw a lot higher player frustration over change, partly due to how many old Champions we were updating and changing, with many older players feeling alienated by the changes. What he's saying is true, and I'm included in this data point. In fact, I filled out two or three surveys over the past year and this was my #1 complaint in all of them. How has that complaint affected my play pattern? Well, here's my ranked games played per season: * S5: 1096 games * S6: 1010 games * S7: 1304 games * S8: 846 games * S9: 5 games Here's a brief timeline of my relationship to champ updates: {{champion:17}} Mained in S5. Reworked then stopped playing him. {{champion:55}} Mained late S5 and early S6. Reworked and could no longer play her decently. {{champion:143}} Primary main. Survived S6 rework. Gave up a year after 7.24 hatchet job. {{champion:127}} Switched to main after giving up on Zyra, then reworked in 8.24 to current LCS-only version. In fact, of all the champs I've ever played that were updated, Lux and Janna are the only ones that I ended up enjoying more than the pre-update versions. And yeah, I'm pretty much done starting over...again.
: Item Shop Cleanup
>This leads to always picking whichever one is stronger rather than making decisions around the items' unique properties. Either we find better ways to differentiate them or we can just combine these items and retain both user bases Translation: We're deleting items that aren't used in LCS. >Give access to an effect (usually reactive or defensive) that we don’t actually want all champions to have access to Translation: We're going to leave all the free passive ass-saving procs on AD items. We're also leaving Duskblade and Shojin. Archangel Staff shield will be deleted because it's too toxic. >Some item niches aren't really something that any champion would want We're deleting items you use because you aren't supposed to want them.
: Here's How You Can Win More In League
Or you can quit ranked and be a winner 100% of the time. {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
: range damage debuff in aram a bit much
The funny thing is how the range nerf hurts champs like these: {{champion:31}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:238}} Like, Teemo's shrooms are already completely worthless with Oracle's, and now they get a huge damage nerf on top of that?
Meddler (NA)
: Possible, though when we've looked into cases previously there's been either little difference between mains and non mains or mains have been even more likely to take the most common option. Worth being aware of as risk point though certainly.
Isn't matchup difficulty a more salient question when it comes to Aftershock vs. damage keystones? Aftershock is a keystone you would usually opt into against many enemy laners with high kill threat. But since AS generally a strong pick, we can infer something about the situations in which players *opt out* of AS. Specifically, you might expect these matchups to be easy enough that AS is unnecessary or a handicap. If I'm laning against Renekton, I'll get shit on without AS. Odds are that I'll get shit on even *with* AS, but I improve my chances of survival. If I take Electrocute, I still can't burst him down. If I'm laning against Katarina or Fizz, I'm going to run Electrocute or Aery because it's a kill-or-be-killed matchup. If I run AS, Fizz still has overkill damage, and Kat will just blink to safety. But these matchups are generally yours to lose either way. So my question is this: Are damage keystone win rates inflated by players opting into them in the safest and easiest matchups? Is the performance gap further narrowed by Aftershock being the go-to pick for most really hard lanes?
94372148 (NA)
: %HP true damage shouldn't exist, change my mind.
I'll buck the popular opinion and disagree here. *However,* I will also say that the current implementation of % max true damage (and most true damage generally, for that matter) is not good. The main issue with true damage currently is that most of the designs scale with skill rank, CDR, attack speed, and/or stat ratios. In many cases the scaling is multiplicative and ends up being uncounterable by any defense. Champs like Vayne or Yi you have to counter with offense because defense doesn't work at all. So I think % max hp true damage has a place if it's implemented in the healthier way modeled by Red Smith or Red Buff. Imagine abilities like Amumu's W (without the AP ratio) or the DOT portion of Swain's ult dealing true damage. Those would be pretty healthy and reasonable uses. You could also consider the ways in which % max true damage could be used to *limit* burst, snowball potential, and problematic builds. Imagine for a second that you replaced some portion of damage/scaling on these ults with %max true damage: {{champion:55}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:236}} If properly tuned, you could use % max true damage to eliminate persistent issues of feast/famine or oppressive/useless. In most of these cases, it would mean replacing total AD ratios with a hybrid % true damage component and bonus AD flat damage component. In doing so, you also devalue the lethality stat. On something like Veigar, a % max true damage component is a way to cap power on a low-counterplay ult. On Vel, splitting his ult/passive true damage between flat and % would be a way to dramatically increase the threshold at which he can literally 100-0 enemy ranged champs with R. On Katarina, her ult is the kind of ability with enough built-in counterplay to support % max true damage over time. **I'm not saying these are real or good suggestions.** I'm only using certain abilities of examples how it could work generally or the impact it might have in certain frustrating kits. With the Wukong example it shows how % max true damage over time *as a component of total damage* could shift his itemization towards bruiser. Or with Lucian and MF, it shows how % max true damage can actually be more fair when compared to flat damage upwards of 3-4k.
: Lissandra and Morgana mid are getting nerfed while Zed is dominating the mid lane.
Zed isn't in pro play, so they'll ignore him for ages. Zed isn't AP, so they'll ignore him for ages.
: When is a good time to play rank?
The only good time to play ranked was before season 7.
Meddler (NA)
: We're confident both Sylas and Lissandra, need some power taken out regardless, based off their performance with other keystones. Extremely confident that's the case with Sylas. Fairly confident that's true for Liss too, though will assess post Aftershock changes and see how she's doing given it's been her primary and most effective choice for quite a while now.
Why not try separate ranged/melee values on Aftershock? Which champ is precluding that option? >Fairly confident that's true for Liss too, though will assess post Aftershock changes and see how she's doing given it's been her primary and most effective choice for quite a while now. My hypothesis is that the new passive's impact correlates with the impact of team fights within the meta. The lower you are on the ladder, the more players scatter like roaches. The higher you are on the ladder, the more team fights are choreographed, objective-based, and pivotal to the outcome. In a highly skilled and highly organized game, the damage potential, disruptive value, and overall influence of the passive skyrockets. Let's be real here: you guys took a sledge hammer to her QWER and mana bar, and it hasn't worked. I think that's because her passive and aftershock have game-phase synergy that hasn't been touched at all. Have you considered that at all? Can you at least tell us if it's been ruled out?
: Can it be that Liss's performance with other keystones is a bit skewed because mains are going for other options while the majority runs aftershock?
I asked a similar question weeks ago about whether other keystones are picked as "win more" runes in the easiest matchups. No answer of course.
Saianna (EUNE)
: Now when you mention it...
New items since season 6: {{item:3812}} {{item:3508}} {{item:3123}} {{item:3036}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3033}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3095}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3147}} {{item:3814}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3161}} New items since season 6: {{item:3102}} {{item:3152}} {{item:3907}} {{item:3030}} {{item:2065}} Removed items: * Banner of Command (AP) * WOTA * Abyssal Scepter * Zeke's Harbinger * AP Trinity * AP IBG AD lost, like....Brutalizer and Avarice Blade? The imbalance here is just dumb. It's not even a matter of AD having more diverse classes. AP has tanks, bruisers, dps, supports, mages, and assassins. The difference is that ADs actually get items tailored for each class while APs don't.
: Can we acknowledge that they have been moving in the right direction in some areas?
>I’d argue Season 9 is a step in the right direction compared to 7 and 8. Shit tacos are definitely a step in the right direction compared to shit salad and shit burgers. Tacos are better, but it's still full of shit.
: Why is witts end going to deal . more damage than nashor tooth.....
Saianna (EUNE)
: I'd say the item sustain (lifesteal + defensive steroids) is beyond good... But only for ADs
> [{quoted}](name=Saianna,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mHWvzWnR,comment-id=00070002,timestamp=2019-03-26T16:39:48.164+0000) > > But only for ADs You just summed up seasons 6-9 in 4 words.
: 53% winrate, 30% pickrate y 35% banrate
Riot's response: "Vayne and Jinx are looking a little too strong. To give their competition a fighting chance, we're adding 5 lethality to Dirk items, nerfing support income, and nerfing Zyra's plant damage by another 10%."
Meddler (NA)
: Yep, I believe those are all unintended (very confident most are, fairly confident the rest are). We're working on a range if issues at present, those affecting Zyra like that included.
Is the pet patch note stating that Zyra plants are no longer treated as basic attacks for dodge purposes (or defensive ball curl)?
: If you order delivery, please tip your driver.
Here is some info: * Under no circumstances is it legal for you to work and earn less than $7.25/hr average in a *pay period,* inclusive of tips. If you make $0 in tips over 2 weeks, Domino's has to pay you $7.25/hr in wages. * Domino's is required to guarantee you $7.25/hr minimum *after* reimbursing your driving expenses. The IRS recommends this reimbursement be paid at $0.58/mile in 2019. * Federal overtime pay kicks in on hour 41 in a single Sun-Sat work week (not 7 consecutive days). You say that you are paid $0.28/mile for deliveries? Here's a news article where Domino's paid $850k to settle a class action for underpaying mileage at $0.30/mile. There are actually lots of other examples, including 8-figure settlements involving Domino's for uncompensated mileage, undercompensated mileage, unfair tip deductions, and failure to meet minimum wage requirements. Here's a nice list of cases filed by just one firm that does a lot of these cases. If everything you say here is true, you might give these folks a call. I did a quick search and couldn't find where these issues have been litigated against Domino's in Louisiana. Source: being a bloodsucking lawyer.
: My best guess would be the single target damage assassins can output. An assassin can delete out of position enemies, true, but they usually have little input in a larger team fight, due to their damage being single target. Assassins also tend to die just as quickly as they can kill. Those who have increased gold as part of their kit I find typically do a lot more in team fights, and as a result have less effective damage in the name of "balance". - On that note, having a small bonus of extra gold in the kit can allow their abilities to work as intended without making the abilities of those champs to out damage the assassins themselves. To be punished for having extra gold in place of more powerful abilities would completely negate their speciality advantage, leaving them incapable, and therefore pointless to pick.
The income champs I can think of are: {{champion:41}} {{champion:4}} {{champion:119}} Are there any others? Of these three, only GP is an aoe/teamfight monster. TF is pick-focused like an assassin. Draven is kill/snowball-focused like an assassin. What you're saying makes sense in theory, but I'm not seeing how it plays out in the actual context of the income champs we currently have.
: Generally the same reason that GP TF, or Draven don't get larger bounties based on the gold their kit uniquely gives them. Klepto is balanced around other runes in the system, and we start getting into strange territory if it increases your bounty
How is that any different from assassin kits that are designed to give them kill gold?
: Upcoming Bounty Changes
>But bounties are meant to be a reward for killing powerful or valuable members of the enemy team, not necessarily members with lots of kills. In pro for instance, teams funnel tons of CS into their carries. We think it’s GOOD that the bounty system is more accurately assessing their power. Then why not just assign a player's kill value based on their total income from all sources, where kill value is Base x %deviation from game-wide average? Assume a game has average income of 10,000 gold, but a carry has 15,000 gold and a support has 5,000 gold. You would get 150% of base kill gold for killing the carry but only 50% of base for killing the support. The result is that the lowest-income champs are always worth the least gold, and the highest-income champs are always worth more. Is there anything that the current system fixes more effectively and clearly than what I just described? What I'm describing here is a bounty system that actually provides anti-snowball functionality in a way that is always proportionate to the advantage or disadvantage of any player on either team. None of this nonsense where a team is getting crushed, but the losing team's assassin gives up 800g because a poorly-designed system doesn't distinguish between killing sprees and winning the game.
Meddler (NA)
: Ah, cool! Good to hear, expecting we'll see more of that sort of communication from both of them :)
I think a good follow-up post might address how you intend to read the data. A lot of replies to that post wanted to know why there was no mention of play rate in the list of guideposts for each tier of play, and it's hard to understand how the data is being applied. Compare Lucian, Zyra, and Sona in 9.2. In the context of Rep's post, there's absolutely no rational explanation for why Lucian got a love tap, Zyra got hit for 2% WR, and Sona was left to continue climbing into 54%+ WR territory. Here the champs with highest WR, PR, and BR were mostly ignored. The champ in the middle got nerfed by 2% WR, which is massive by any historical standard. Having a more objective balance philosophy is all well and good, but it would be nice if players could refer to the philosophy to make sense of changes. Instead it just does the opposite because, as far as I can tell, your own philosophy would require nerfs to Sona instead of Zyra.
Meddler (NA)
: We'd like to keep Morgana effective as both a mid and support pick. That's been the case for her historically for a long time, can't see any need or likelihood we change it.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=xe4HBZAv,comment-id=00240000,timestamp=2019-03-13T20:31:30.498+0000) > > We'd like to keep Morgana effective as both a mid and support pick. That's been the case for her historically for a long time, can't see any need or likelihood we change it. I remember hearing this about Zyra, and look how that turned out.
: Q can clear casters and can do it WHILE poking the opponent. That alone is a safe reason to max it. There are several other reasons why E max is bad! The only REAL issue Q has is its indicator. It has none. You have to use it 100 times to get a decent grasp where this damn blade actually deals damage! Small Indie Developer BTW!!!
Q is pretty obnoxious to use in itself. Like, why is there an eternity-length cast delay on a skillshot with unexceptional projectile speed?
: > [{quoted}](name=EmpressOracle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UumU8Bp4,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2019-03-12T15:47:32.255+0000) > > They think "western" is a race Race isn't even a Race. Scientifically Human Beings as a whole are one race (Sapiens), everything else is merely a social construct.
Technically, Sapien is a species, not a race. "Race" describes a constellation of social attitudes and identities at the intersection of phenotype, genotype, ancestry, national origin, ethnicity, sub/culture, and law.
Keyru (NA)
: We launched it with autoclosing comments to test a feature which turned out to be super successful, just not in the appropriate place to use. Listening to that feedback, from our original announcement thread, we're in the process (or it's already registered) to removing the commenting blocker so players should be able to comment in rant now. I don't have plans to allow upvotes or downvotes in there but we've included Discussion View and Chronological View available there.
Good call. For the Rant section to work, it has to function as a trap/outlet for circle-jerks and cheap validation. Otherwise, those behaviors will be more likely to spread to other sections or reincarnate as toxic replies that can't be re-categorized.
arkment (OCE)
: A Kayle mains lament
To quote myself from a Kayle PBE thread: > [{quoted}](name=Vekkna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gsnxeTIN,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-02-21T17:46:01.534+0000) > > I've had 7 ranked games that lasted past level 16 in the last **four months combined.** > > Pretty sure we'll just have a very weak early game that smoothly transitions into an open nexus.
: This is really an excellent point. I really enjoyed old galio, karma, swain, and poppy. None of them devastated me when they were changed, but it did bum me out a little, and I pretty much don't play any of them anymore. not because I dislike them now exactly, but more because I miss what they were.
I'm just using myself as a reference point from my experience with these folks: {{champion:143}} More or less gutted out of mid lane by season 6 rework, followed by tons of nerfs to accommodate the new passive in bot lane. 1,000,000 mastery points into this champ, and I can't even enjoy playing her anymore despite maintaining high win rates. {{champion:127}} 8.24 rework totally changed her solo agency, build options, laning style, and power curve. I don't have much success with her anymore, and when I do it's absolutely fucking miserable. {{champion:55}} This was a relatively small-scope change compared to the rest of my list, but her rework completely changed the *nature* of her skill requirements. Old Kat was 100% a test of judgment, knowledge of enemy champ kits, and opportunism while being technically easy to play. New Kat is like 80% micro and spacial awareness, which is literally the *polar fucking opposite* of her old skill test. I passed the old test and fail the new test. {{champion:28}} I sucked ass at old Eve and actually do much better with the new one (because Riot holds her hand through every jungle clear). But I don't really care about playing the new Eve because she's incredibly static in terms of build options and gameplay flexibility. She can't function in a lane, and her only real "choices" are the order of Spellbinder, Lich, and DCap. Huge departure from the amount of time I sat around theorycrafting (and then feeding) builds on old Eve. I went back through my match history for seasons 6-8, and by this many weeks into the new season I have always logged 100-130+ games. This season I've played **4 ranked games.** Why? Because I don't have a main champion anymore. I spent years and thousands of games learning and improving with Zyra, Liss, Kat, and others. They used to be champs I loved to play even when I lost; now they're champs that aren't even fun when I win. I cannot even begin to imagine what it must be like for Galio, Aatrox, Karma, Akali, Morede, and Urgot mains whose champs were literally deleted from the game and replaced with an unrecognizable, unbalanceable shitshow.
Meddler (NA)
: Agree it feels bad to see support items nerfed due to use in other positions. Disagree that they're in a terrible state and need buffs. We've pushed a lot of extra power into them over the years and support gold generation's around the highest it's ever been. With you useability needs work, we'll work on at at some point (certainly this year, not sure yet beyond that). Personal take is Dark Seal might be slightly strong but not problematically so.
With the ally proximity requirement for spellthief gold proc, can we remove the CS penalty? Or, at the very least, remove all the proximity and CS penalties upon upgrading to Remnant?
: I partly blame the VGU team for this mess. I'm pretty sure riot lost $100 million in sales when people saw they deleted Frostbutt irelia, the best irelia skin there was and one of the best skins in the game because some twit who needed to be fired wanted a snowday skin instead. I mean why would you throw money at skins if riot is just going to delete them in the next rework. If one of the top 10 skins in the game got randomly deleted, nothing is safe.
>I partly blame the VGU team for this mess. I actually agree with this, though for slightly different reasons. The broader issue, I think, is that reworks have had very little fidelity to the original. Using movie analogies, we started with Eartha Kitt Catwoman, hoped for Michelle Pfeiffer Catwoman, and ended up with fucking Halle Berry "Catwoman." That applies to both champ update gameplay *and* many popular skins. Examples: {{champion:84}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:104}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:114}} That's not to say that all of those were failures. I think several are pretty well-regarded for either gameplay or visual reasons. Either way, they all served to alienate dedicated players of the older versions, if for no other reason than the sheer scope of change. This is largely a self-inflicted wound. For example, there was no real reason to make such drastic change to Evelynn's ratios and default costume, or totally change Karma's thematic, reinvent so many of Irelia's skins, or make such drastic gameplay changes to Galio, GP, Morde, Skarner, Aatrox, Quinn, etc. Riot has attempted to reinvent these characters instead of refining them, and the players are less concerned with the quality of the end product than they are with the familiarity of it. Obviously I don't have any data to support this, but I would expect this to cause player churn that adds up over time.
Sukishoo (NA)
: Cats vs Dogs - Rengar, Yorick, Fizz and Corki!
: Ranked 2019 — /dev Update #3
After all this time, there has still not been a single comment about players who climb through certain ranks using certain roles. Example from my own ranked history: Bronze: Teemo top Silver: Zyra mid & Singed top Low-MId Gold: Zyra mid/top & Katarina mid High Gold-Plat: Zyra support It's a pretty simple concept. As Zyra, I can't carry a bronze/silver game from support consistently, but I can from mid or top. As Katarina, I can't close out a game below gold, but I can't play her at the skill level above gold. Above gold, Zyra can't cheese mid anymore, and I have to swap to support. This is such a glaring flaw in the new ranked system, and it blows my fucking mind that Riot has given no indication that they are even aware that this is a thing.
: I love Twisted Treeline, but it's been completely left to rot, with no attention for map-focused balancing or even specific inclusion in missions for ages. Makes me sad.
>it's been completely left to rot, with no attention for map-focused balancing This is different from Summoner's Rift below Diamond?
: To be fair, it's a lot easier checking the data from this mode and just adding or subtracting overall damage done/taken from a champion. Twisted Treeline has def been super neglected though.
They could do the exact same thing to TT. It's not an elegant solution, but it would be better than nothing.
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