Bazerka (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Nea104,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nX38a2jE,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-04-21T01:21:34.573+0000) > > The **whole** Season 8 proves how much this has had any sort of effect. Season 9 is going exactly the same way: Riot not caring for feedbacks **at all** (not to mention the "useless boards"). > > So... Yeah, nice words, but facts have been and are (and will be?) very different. I'm interested to know of specific examples where a system was **blatantly** not in the best interest of a **majority** of the player base and feedback re; that was straight up ignored. Often times a system may negatively impact an individual, and for sure this does happen, but its done to try and increase the quality of life for a larger group of players (see: jungle plants which at first were given a **very** frosty reception and negatively impacted people who were adept at the old jungle, but over time were adopted and are now viewed positively). However, these changes are (to be frank) educated guesses and when they don't pan out I believe corrective measures have been taken (see: position ranked most recently, Leblanc revert if you go further back). That being said, I 100% know feedback isn't ignored when its is felt and shared by the larger global community. However, we have a **lot** of players and **individual** pieces of feedback may appear to be ignored. That I agree does feel horrible, especially when you are heavily invested in the game and its ecosystem. All this to say: we do, and are, listening to the community and doing our best to intake and respond to feedback (see Joe Tung's developer diaries & update VOD's). But its a lot of feedback, and often quite niche and individualized to a unique players experience. Feedback like that, when taken and put into scope of the larger **global** audience, might have catastrophic impacts and is thus carefully put away or addressed in a different method. Hope this helps
> [{quoted}](name=Bazerka,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nX38a2jE,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-04-21T01:38:35.720+0000) > > I'm interested to know of specific examples where a system was **blatantly** not in the best interest of a **majority** of the player base and feedback re; that was straight up ignored. * Runes Reforged * Mage itemization generally * Level 2 Scuttle do-or-die And probably the biggest and most obvious: * Balancing for pro play It is an objective fact that balancing anything around pro play is, by definition, blatantly not in the best interests of a majority of players. Historical victims include: {{champion:266}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:76}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:517}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:60}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:7}} This includes changes like: * Banner of Command and Zzrot yo-yos * Baron changes * Minion speed changes * CS bounties * Turret first blood to deter lane swaps * Repeated support item nerfs * Gutting vision across the board * Mage mana nerfs * Systemic nerfs to defense stats and items * Champ designs geared towards spectators first The list just goes on from there.
Reav3 (NA)
: I want to take a minute to answer this from my perspective. First of all our intentions of doing less VGUs and more New Champs was actually based on caring for the playerbase as well as from player feedback we have gotten over the years as we have done New Champs and VGUs. Let me go into a bit more detail though. First when I said less VGUs I didnt mean we would stop doing them, I just meant we would slow down. Expect to still see plenty of VGUs in the future, just not as many as we have been doing last year. The reason why I feel that his is coming from a caring place is this. There are many players that share your perspective, that they want their main updated, and changed. But you have to understand there are also many other players that love their Champion, and find it very frustrating when they are updated even if many other players think the update makes them way better. We have to care about these players as well, and whenever we do VGUs we also cause a lot of disruption and frustration from players over their Champion being changed. New Champions generally don't cause this player pain. Last year we actually saw a lot higher player frustration over change, partly due to how many old Champions we were updating and changing, with many older players feeling alienated by the changes. At this point, after Morde, many of the Champions we would consider for a VGU have much higher players bases then the Champions we were doing VGUs on in the past. This isn't to say there isn't value in doing them, but if we were doing them at the rate we were doing them last year, on Champions with bigger player bases, then that is many more players that would feel frustrated or alienated by the changes, even if many other players like them. This isn't to say we want to stop doing them as we feel there is value in the game feeling modern and up to date, which means we value updating the things that are getting old and dated. The Champions on the list just aren't as dated as some of the ones we did over the last couple years, and as a result the value in updating them isn't as high, and also has a higher disruption and player pain cost since the Champions have bigger player bases.
>Last year we actually saw a lot higher player frustration over change, partly due to how many old Champions we were updating and changing, with many older players feeling alienated by the changes. What he's saying is true, and I'm included in this data point. In fact, I filled out two or three surveys over the past year and this was my #1 complaint in all of them. How has that complaint affected my play pattern? Well, here's my ranked games played per season: * S5: 1096 games * S6: 1010 games * S7: 1304 games * S8: 846 games * S9: 5 games Here's a brief timeline of my relationship to champ updates: {{champion:17}} Mained in S5. Reworked then stopped playing him. {{champion:55}} Mained late S5 and early S6. Reworked and could no longer play her decently. {{champion:143}} Primary main. Survived S6 rework. Gave up a year after 7.24 hatchet job. {{champion:127}} Switched to main after giving up on Zyra, then reworked in 8.24 to current LCS-only version. In fact, of all the champs I've ever played that were updated, Lux and Janna are the only ones that I ended up enjoying more than the pre-update versions. And yeah, I'm pretty much done starting over...again.
: Item Shop Cleanup
>This leads to always picking whichever one is stronger rather than making decisions around the items' unique properties. Either we find better ways to differentiate them or we can just combine these items and retain both user bases Translation: We're deleting items that aren't used in LCS. >Give access to an effect (usually reactive or defensive) that we don’t actually want all champions to have access to Translation: We're going to leave all the free passive ass-saving procs on AD items. We're also leaving Duskblade and Shojin. Archangel Staff shield will be deleted because it's too toxic. >Some item niches aren't really something that any champion would want We're deleting items you use because you aren't supposed to want them.
: Here's How You Can Win More In League
Or you can quit ranked and be a winner 100% of the time. {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
: range damage debuff in aram a bit much
The funny thing is how the range nerf hurts champs like these: {{champion:31}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:238}} Like, Teemo's shrooms are already completely worthless with Oracle's, and now they get a huge damage nerf on top of that?
Meddler (NA)
: Possible, though when we've looked into cases previously there's been either little difference between mains and non mains or mains have been even more likely to take the most common option. Worth being aware of as risk point though certainly.
Isn't matchup difficulty a more salient question when it comes to Aftershock vs. damage keystones? Aftershock is a keystone you would usually opt into against many enemy laners with high kill threat. But since AS generally a strong pick, we can infer something about the situations in which players *opt out* of AS. Specifically, you might expect these matchups to be easy enough that AS is unnecessary or a handicap. If I'm laning against Renekton, I'll get shit on without AS. Odds are that I'll get shit on even *with* AS, but I improve my chances of survival. If I take Electrocute, I still can't burst him down. If I'm laning against Katarina or Fizz, I'm going to run Electrocute or Aery because it's a kill-or-be-killed matchup. If I run AS, Fizz still has overkill damage, and Kat will just blink to safety. But these matchups are generally yours to lose either way. So my question is this: Are damage keystone win rates inflated by players opting into them in the safest and easiest matchups? Is the performance gap further narrowed by Aftershock being the go-to pick for most really hard lanes?
94372148 (NA)
: %HP true damage shouldn't exist, change my mind.
I'll buck the popular opinion and disagree here. *However,* I will also say that the current implementation of % max true damage (and most true damage generally, for that matter) is not good. The main issue with true damage currently is that most of the designs scale with skill rank, CDR, attack speed, and/or stat ratios. In many cases the scaling is multiplicative and ends up being uncounterable by any defense. Champs like Vayne or Yi you have to counter with offense because defense doesn't work at all. So I think % max hp true damage has a place if it's implemented in the healthier way modeled by Red Smith or Red Buff. Imagine abilities like Amumu's W (without the AP ratio) or the DOT portion of Swain's ult dealing true damage. Those would be pretty healthy and reasonable uses. You could also consider the ways in which % max true damage could be used to *limit* burst, snowball potential, and problematic builds. Imagine for a second that you replaced some portion of damage/scaling on these ults with %max true damage: {{champion:55}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:236}} If properly tuned, you could use % max true damage to eliminate persistent issues of feast/famine or oppressive/useless. In most of these cases, it would mean replacing total AD ratios with a hybrid % true damage component and bonus AD flat damage component. In doing so, you also devalue the lethality stat. On something like Veigar, a % max true damage component is a way to cap power on a low-counterplay ult. On Vel, splitting his ult/passive true damage between flat and % would be a way to dramatically increase the threshold at which he can literally 100-0 enemy ranged champs with R. On Katarina, her ult is the kind of ability with enough built-in counterplay to support % max true damage over time. **I'm not saying these are real or good suggestions.** I'm only using certain abilities of examples how it could work generally or the impact it might have in certain frustrating kits. With the Wukong example it shows how % max true damage over time *as a component of total damage* could shift his itemization towards bruiser. Or with Lucian and MF, it shows how % max true damage can actually be more fair when compared to flat damage upwards of 3-4k.
: Lissandra and Morgana mid are getting nerfed while Zed is dominating the mid lane.
Zed isn't in pro play, so they'll ignore him for ages. Zed isn't AP, so they'll ignore him for ages.
: When is a good time to play rank?
The only good time to play ranked was before season 7.
Meddler (NA)
: We're confident both Sylas and Lissandra, need some power taken out regardless, based off their performance with other keystones. Extremely confident that's the case with Sylas. Fairly confident that's true for Liss too, though will assess post Aftershock changes and see how she's doing given it's been her primary and most effective choice for quite a while now.
Why not try separate ranged/melee values on Aftershock? Which champ is precluding that option? >Fairly confident that's true for Liss too, though will assess post Aftershock changes and see how she's doing given it's been her primary and most effective choice for quite a while now. My hypothesis is that the new passive's impact correlates with the impact of team fights within the meta. The lower you are on the ladder, the more players scatter like roaches. The higher you are on the ladder, the more team fights are choreographed, objective-based, and pivotal to the outcome. In a highly skilled and highly organized game, the damage potential, disruptive value, and overall influence of the passive skyrockets. Let's be real here: you guys took a sledge hammer to her QWER and mana bar, and it hasn't worked. I think that's because her passive and aftershock have game-phase synergy that hasn't been touched at all. Have you considered that at all? Can you at least tell us if it's been ruled out?
: Can it be that Liss's performance with other keystones is a bit skewed because mains are going for other options while the majority runs aftershock?
I asked a similar question weeks ago about whether other keystones are picked as "win more" runes in the easiest matchups. No answer of course.
Saianna (EUNE)
: Now when you mention it...
New items since season 6: {{item:3812}} {{item:3508}} {{item:3123}} {{item:3036}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3033}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3095}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3147}} {{item:3814}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3161}} New items since season 6: {{item:3102}} {{item:3152}} {{item:3907}} {{item:3030}} {{item:2065}} Removed items: * Banner of Command (AP) * WOTA * Abyssal Scepter * Zeke's Harbinger * AP Trinity * AP IBG AD lost, like....Brutalizer and Avarice Blade? The imbalance here is just dumb. It's not even a matter of AD having more diverse classes. AP has tanks, bruisers, dps, supports, mages, and assassins. The difference is that ADs actually get items tailored for each class while APs don't.
: Can we acknowledge that they have been moving in the right direction in some areas?
>I’d argue Season 9 is a step in the right direction compared to 7 and 8. Shit tacos are definitely a step in the right direction compared to shit salad and shit burgers. Tacos are better, but it's still full of shit.
: Why is witts end going to deal . more damage than nashor tooth.....
Saianna (EUNE)
: I'd say the item sustain (lifesteal + defensive steroids) is beyond good... But only for ADs
> [{quoted}](name=Saianna,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mHWvzWnR,comment-id=00070002,timestamp=2019-03-26T16:39:48.164+0000) > > But only for ADs You just summed up seasons 6-9 in 4 words.
: 53% winrate, 30% pickrate y 35% banrate
Riot's response: "Vayne and Jinx are looking a little too strong. To give their competition a fighting chance, we're adding 5 lethality to Dirk items, nerfing support income, and nerfing Zyra's plant damage by another 10%."
Meddler (NA)
: Yep, I believe those are all unintended (very confident most are, fairly confident the rest are). We're working on a range if issues at present, those affecting Zyra like that included.
Is the pet patch note stating that Zyra plants are no longer treated as basic attacks for dodge purposes (or defensive ball curl)?
: If you order delivery, please tip your driver.
Here is some info: * Under no circumstances is it legal for you to work and earn less than $7.25/hr average in a *pay period,* inclusive of tips. If you make $0 in tips over 2 weeks, Domino's has to pay you $7.25/hr in wages. * Domino's is required to guarantee you $7.25/hr minimum *after* reimbursing your driving expenses. The IRS recommends this reimbursement be paid at $0.58/mile in 2019. * Federal overtime pay kicks in on hour 41 in a single Sun-Sat work week (not 7 consecutive days). You say that you are paid $0.28/mile for deliveries? Here's a news article where Domino's paid $850k to settle a class action for underpaying mileage at $0.30/mile. https://www.daytondailynews.com/business/400-pizza-delivery-drivers-win-850k-settlement/62YLxxKEFrQZXJoSVetLVJ/ There are actually lots of other examples, including 8-figure settlements involving Domino's for uncompensated mileage, undercompensated mileage, unfair tip deductions, and failure to meet minimum wage requirements. Here's a nice list of cases filed by just one firm that does a lot of these cases. If everything you say here is true, you might give these folks a call. I did a quick search and couldn't find where these issues have been litigated against Domino's in Louisiana. http://pizzalawsuits.com/experience/ Source: being a bloodsucking lawyer.
: My best guess would be the single target damage assassins can output. An assassin can delete out of position enemies, true, but they usually have little input in a larger team fight, due to their damage being single target. Assassins also tend to die just as quickly as they can kill. Those who have increased gold as part of their kit I find typically do a lot more in team fights, and as a result have less effective damage in the name of "balance". - On that note, having a small bonus of extra gold in the kit can allow their abilities to work as intended without making the abilities of those champs to out damage the assassins themselves. To be punished for having extra gold in place of more powerful abilities would completely negate their speciality advantage, leaving them incapable, and therefore pointless to pick.
The income champs I can think of are: {{champion:41}} {{champion:4}} {{champion:119}} Are there any others? Of these three, only GP is an aoe/teamfight monster. TF is pick-focused like an assassin. Draven is kill/snowball-focused like an assassin. What you're saying makes sense in theory, but I'm not seeing how it plays out in the actual context of the income champs we currently have.
: Generally the same reason that GP TF, or Draven don't get larger bounties based on the gold their kit uniquely gives them. Klepto is balanced around other runes in the system, and we start getting into strange territory if it increases your bounty
How is that any different from assassin kits that are designed to give them kill gold?
: Upcoming Bounty Changes
>But bounties are meant to be a reward for killing powerful or valuable members of the enemy team, not necessarily members with lots of kills. In pro for instance, teams funnel tons of CS into their carries. We think it’s GOOD that the bounty system is more accurately assessing their power. Then why not just assign a player's kill value based on their total income from all sources, where kill value is Base x %deviation from game-wide average? Assume a game has average income of 10,000 gold, but a carry has 15,000 gold and a support has 5,000 gold. You would get 150% of base kill gold for killing the carry but only 50% of base for killing the support. The result is that the lowest-income champs are always worth the least gold, and the highest-income champs are always worth more. Is there anything that the current system fixes more effectively and clearly than what I just described? What I'm describing here is a bounty system that actually provides anti-snowball functionality in a way that is always proportionate to the advantage or disadvantage of any player on either team. None of this nonsense where a team is getting crushed, but the losing team's assassin gives up 800g because a poorly-designed system doesn't distinguish between killing sprees and winning the game.
Meddler (NA)
: Ah, cool! Good to hear, expecting we'll see more of that sort of communication from both of them :)
I think a good follow-up post might address how you intend to read the data. A lot of replies to that post wanted to know why there was no mention of play rate in the list of guideposts for each tier of play, and it's hard to understand how the data is being applied. Compare Lucian, Zyra, and Sona in 9.2. In the context of Rep's post, there's absolutely no rational explanation for why Lucian got a love tap, Zyra got hit for 2% WR, and Sona was left to continue climbing into 54%+ WR territory. Here the champs with highest WR, PR, and BR were mostly ignored. The champ in the middle got nerfed by 2% WR, which is massive by any historical standard. Having a more objective balance philosophy is all well and good, but it would be nice if players could refer to the philosophy to make sense of changes. Instead it just does the opposite because, as far as I can tell, your own philosophy would require nerfs to Sona instead of Zyra.
Meddler (NA)
: We'd like to keep Morgana effective as both a mid and support pick. That's been the case for her historically for a long time, can't see any need or likelihood we change it.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=xe4HBZAv,comment-id=00240000,timestamp=2019-03-13T20:31:30.498+0000) > > We'd like to keep Morgana effective as both a mid and support pick. That's been the case for her historically for a long time, can't see any need or likelihood we change it. I remember hearing this about Zyra, and look how that turned out.
: Q can clear casters and can do it WHILE poking the opponent. That alone is a safe reason to max it. There are several other reasons why E max is bad! The only REAL issue Q has is its indicator. It has none. You have to use it 100 times to get a decent grasp where this damn blade actually deals damage! Small Indie Developer BTW!!!
Q is pretty obnoxious to use in itself. Like, why is there an eternity-length cast delay on a skillshot with unexceptional projectile speed?
: > [{quoted}](name=EmpressOracle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UumU8Bp4,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2019-03-12T15:47:32.255+0000) > > They think "western" is a race Race isn't even a Race. Scientifically Human Beings as a whole are one race (Sapiens), everything else is merely a social construct.
Technically, Sapien is a species, not a race. "Race" describes a constellation of social attitudes and identities at the intersection of phenotype, genotype, ancestry, national origin, ethnicity, sub/culture, and law.
Keyru (NA)
: We launched it with autoclosing comments to test a feature which turned out to be super successful, just not in the appropriate place to use. Listening to that feedback, from our original announcement thread, we're in the process (or it's already registered) to removing the commenting blocker so players should be able to comment in rant now. I don't have plans to allow upvotes or downvotes in there but we've included Discussion View and Chronological View available there.
Good call. For the Rant section to work, it has to function as a trap/outlet for circle-jerks and cheap validation. Otherwise, those behaviors will be more likely to spread to other sections or reincarnate as toxic replies that can't be re-categorized.
arkment (OCE)
: A Kayle mains lament
To quote myself from a Kayle PBE thread: > [{quoted}](name=Vekkna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gsnxeTIN,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-02-21T17:46:01.534+0000) > > I've had 7 ranked games that lasted past level 16 in the last **four months combined.** > > Pretty sure we'll just have a very weak early game that smoothly transitions into an open nexus.
: This is really an excellent point. I really enjoyed old galio, karma, swain, and poppy. None of them devastated me when they were changed, but it did bum me out a little, and I pretty much don't play any of them anymore. not because I dislike them now exactly, but more because I miss what they were.
I'm just using myself as a reference point from my experience with these folks: {{champion:143}} More or less gutted out of mid lane by season 6 rework, followed by tons of nerfs to accommodate the new passive in bot lane. 1,000,000 mastery points into this champ, and I can't even enjoy playing her anymore despite maintaining high win rates. {{champion:127}} 8.24 rework totally changed her solo agency, build options, laning style, and power curve. I don't have much success with her anymore, and when I do it's absolutely fucking miserable. {{champion:55}} This was a relatively small-scope change compared to the rest of my list, but her rework completely changed the *nature* of her skill requirements. Old Kat was 100% a test of judgment, knowledge of enemy champ kits, and opportunism while being technically easy to play. New Kat is like 80% micro and spacial awareness, which is literally the *polar fucking opposite* of her old skill test. I passed the old test and fail the new test. {{champion:28}} I sucked ass at old Eve and actually do much better with the new one (because Riot holds her hand through every jungle clear). But I don't really care about playing the new Eve because she's incredibly static in terms of build options and gameplay flexibility. She can't function in a lane, and her only real "choices" are the order of Spellbinder, Lich, and DCap. Huge departure from the amount of time I sat around theorycrafting (and then feeding) builds on old Eve. I went back through my match history for seasons 6-8, and by this many weeks into the new season I have always logged 100-130+ games. This season I've played **4 ranked games.** Why? Because I don't have a main champion anymore. I spent years and thousands of games learning and improving with Zyra, Liss, Kat, and others. They used to be champs I loved to play even when I lost; now they're champs that aren't even fun when I win. I cannot even begin to imagine what it must be like for Galio, Aatrox, Karma, Akali, Morede, and Urgot mains whose champs were literally deleted from the game and replaced with an unrecognizable, unbalanceable shitshow.
Meddler (NA)
: Agree it feels bad to see support items nerfed due to use in other positions. Disagree that they're in a terrible state and need buffs. We've pushed a lot of extra power into them over the years and support gold generation's around the highest it's ever been. With you useability needs work, we'll work on at at some point (certainly this year, not sure yet beyond that). Personal take is Dark Seal might be slightly strong but not problematically so.
With the ally proximity requirement for spellthief gold proc, can we remove the CS penalty? Or, at the very least, remove all the proximity and CS penalties upon upgrading to Remnant?
: I partly blame the VGU team for this mess. I'm pretty sure riot lost $100 million in sales when people saw they deleted Frostbutt irelia, the best irelia skin there was and one of the best skins in the game because some twit who needed to be fired wanted a snowday skin instead. I mean why would you throw money at skins if riot is just going to delete them in the next rework. If one of the top 10 skins in the game got randomly deleted, nothing is safe.
>I partly blame the VGU team for this mess. I actually agree with this, though for slightly different reasons. The broader issue, I think, is that reworks have had very little fidelity to the original. Using movie analogies, we started with Eartha Kitt Catwoman, hoped for Michelle Pfeiffer Catwoman, and ended up with fucking Halle Berry "Catwoman." That applies to both champ update gameplay *and* many popular skins. Examples: {{champion:84}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:104}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:114}} That's not to say that all of those were failures. I think several are pretty well-regarded for either gameplay or visual reasons. Either way, they all served to alienate dedicated players of the older versions, if for no other reason than the sheer scope of change. This is largely a self-inflicted wound. For example, there was no real reason to make such drastic change to Evelynn's ratios and default costume, or totally change Karma's thematic, reinvent so many of Irelia's skins, or make such drastic gameplay changes to Galio, GP, Morde, Skarner, Aatrox, Quinn, etc. Riot has attempted to reinvent these characters instead of refining them, and the players are less concerned with the quality of the end product than they are with the familiarity of it. Obviously I don't have any data to support this, but I would expect this to cause player churn that adds up over time.
Sukishoo (NA)
: Cats vs Dogs - Rengar, Yorick, Fizz and Corki!
: Ranked 2019 — /dev Update #3
After all this time, there has still not been a single comment about players who climb through certain ranks using certain roles. Example from my own ranked history: Bronze: Teemo top Silver: Zyra mid & Singed top Low-MId Gold: Zyra mid/top & Katarina mid High Gold-Plat: Zyra support It's a pretty simple concept. As Zyra, I can't carry a bronze/silver game from support consistently, but I can from mid or top. As Katarina, I can't close out a game below gold, but I can't play her at the skill level above gold. Above gold, Zyra can't cheese mid anymore, and I have to swap to support. This is such a glaring flaw in the new ranked system, and it blows my fucking mind that Riot has given no indication that they are even aware that this is a thing.
: I love Twisted Treeline, but it's been completely left to rot, with no attention for map-focused balancing or even specific inclusion in missions for ages. Makes me sad.
>it's been completely left to rot, with no attention for map-focused balancing This is different from Summoner's Rift below Diamond?
: To be fair, it's a lot easier checking the data from this mode and just adding or subtracting overall damage done/taken from a champion. Twisted Treeline has def been super neglected though.
They could do the exact same thing to TT. It's not an elegant solution, but it would be better than nothing.
: About a month ago, I made a post saying I hate how Rioters never respond to negative criticism here
It's just how the gamer demo is at a macro level. They tell everyone to get thick skin or get off the internet. They act like it's a character flaw to be angered by slurs and hatespeech. Then they act like a mob of monkeys when someone calls them "man-babies," doesn't engage with forum complaints, or uses any of their trigger words (like "girl" or "representation"). The entire culture is a tragicomic shitshow, tbh.
Meddler (NA)
: First thing we'd need to bring it back is a strong argument on why it wouldn't lead back to the same issues. Interested in it because it allows a very different type of output, and therefore choice, from an item. Highly suspicious of it because of how strategic/macro level items like this have tended to dictate play significantly or be useless. That's ok or even desirable sometimes (e.g. vision play), but can remove a lot of depth and be really limiting in other cases (Banner or Zz'Rot when either let alone both have been strong).
There was a very long period of time in which Banner was not problematic, wasn't there? I don't remember there being any issues with it for the entire time it had AP on it.
Riot Jag (NA)
: Teemo changes temporarily on PBE for early feedback
Thoughts on something like this? >Mushrooms have no "arm time" but enter stealth after 3 sec. Stealthed mushrooms deal 50% less damage This gives Teemo a strong and immediate ult if he casts it on an enemy during a fight. Range is super short, so there is risk involved In exchange, invisible mushrooms deal much less damage. I think this might make him a better fighter, less hobbled by sweeper/dusk, and even further reduce the "half-healthed by invisible trap" element.
Vekkna (NA)
: Is there some clear rule for what applies stacks of Conqueror? As far as I can tell, it was designed with unique interactions that totally defy core elements of the game. Stacking defies definitions of basic terms like "attack" and "ability;" common rules around application of spell effects, on-hits, lifesteal, etc.; and precedent set by other interactions between champs, items, and runes. Examples listed in reply to this post. **Question:** How are players supposed to know how the game works if it does not work in a clear and consistent fashion? Why do so many interactions - particularly Conqueror - come down to pure guesswork?
>**Examples of Inconsistent, Illogical, or Unexpected Conqueror Interactions** Corki and MF: Why do these attacks only apply 1 stack of Conqueror while counting as 2 attacks for other purposes (1-shotting Zyra plants) Echo: Applies spell effects like Liandry's and counts as an ability for other keystones (Comet, Elec, Phase). Why does it not apply any stacks of Conqueror? Tiamat: I believe on-hit AOE adds a stack, as does the active. Why? Urgot: Why does his W add 1 stack of Conqueror per hit while only applying on-hits at 1/3 effect? Shouldn't every third W hit add a stack? Ashe: Why does Q instantly apply 5 stacks when it counts as 1 attack for every other interaction in the game? Twitch: Why does his ult apply 1 stack per enemy champion hit by the same auto? Why do aoe abilities not stack per enemy hit? Sol vs. Singed: Poison trail never adds more than 1 stack under any circumstance. Sol P/W adds 1 stack per hit per champ. Why the discrepancy between skills with such similar gameplay functionality? Rumble: Why do none of his DoTs apply more than one stack or refresh duration? Annie: Why does Tibbers apply exactly 1 stack instead of 1 stack for cast, 1 stack for aura, and 1 stack for minion attack?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 22
Is there some clear rule for what applies stacks of Conqueror? As far as I can tell, it was designed with unique interactions that totally defy core elements of the game. Stacking defies definitions of basic terms like "attack" and "ability;" common rules around application of spell effects, on-hits, lifesteal, etc.; and precedent set by other interactions between champs, items, and runes. Examples listed in reply to this post. **Question:** How are players supposed to know how the game works if it does not work in a clear and consistent fashion? Why do so many interactions - particularly Conqueror - come down to pure guesswork?
: > [{quoted}](name=Vekkna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aa1zzwg5,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2019-02-21T17:53:37.404+0000) > > His rank 3 ult does 2250 damage with literally no runes or items or buffs of any kind. It gains +1000 damage per 133 bonus AD. > > Draw your own conclusions. If you eat an entire channel of a Lucien ult, that if 10000% on you.
Or it's because he can move and dash during it? >eat an entire channel of a Lucien ult LOL, you think it takes an entire channel? If you're an enemy ADC at level 16 and Lucian is at ~250 *total* AD, he can miss *literally half* of his ult shots and still 100-0 your ass. He could literally sell all his items and buy 6 tears, and still 100-0 you with a full channel. So while you say "don't eat and entire channel," the obvious counterpoint to that is "don't be a Lucian with 6 tear and no runes."
: Maybe it's a sign if champs have nearly 80% ban rate, that they're overpowered
78% ban rate? -3 AD will fix it! {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
: I thought Lucian "strong because other ADCs suck"
>Was/is Lucian still just really overpowered. His rank 3 ult does 2250 damage with literally no runes or items or buffs of any kind. It gains +1000 damage per 133 bonus AD. Draw your own conclusions.
: Looks like Riot really did well with the power progression on Kayle.
I've had 7 ranked games that lasted past level 16 in the last **four months combined.** Pretty sure we'll just have a very weak early game that smoothly transitions into an open nexus.
: You'd be correct. I'm one of those. I still do think that proplay is a good indicator for the state of a champion.
Why would you think that? Pro play has a unique meta, 5-man premades, voice comm, and a strategic pick/ban phase that comes with knowing the people you are playing against. It's almost a different game from the solo/duo ranked ladder. Your point is pretty easily disproven with the pro/solo gap we've seen in recent seasons on Shen, Sej, Ryze, Akali, Galio, Rakan, Alistar, and historically on Kalista, Azir, Thresh, Syndra, Gragas, Lee, Elise, Leblanc, Karma, Nidalee. Now Lissandra is heading in that direction. There are many examples of champs that, if balanced for pro play, are dumpstered in solo/duo at most or all elos. So why would you use that as any sort of barometer for the overall state of a champion? Not even Riot thinks that, which is exactly why they keep tinkering with the champs I listed instead of balancing around just pros.
FSRER (EUNE)
: Kata can heal for most damage she does thanks to gunblade. Zed does not do that even tho he got buffed so he can escape easily a all-go-in because assassins were totally created to get in, instakill 2 or 3 people and then just get out!!
>Kata can heal for most damage she does thanks to gunblade "Most." LOL. Literally 5% of her damage on anything other than Shunpo, which heals for literally 15 hp when Kat has 120 AD and 100 AP. Her biggest heal comes from Gunblade's own active.
: I just wanna ask, how are the whole 3 times he got picked this split "regular play" ? data in question http://gol.gg/champion/champion-stats/114/season-S9/split-ALL/tournament-ALL/patch-ALL/role-MID/league-ALL/
Some people play this game instead of watching it on TV. Just fyi.
Meddler (NA)
: Morg - we did try some other changes including on the passive. Conclusion was overall Morg's kit was in a fine spot though, including with good balance and counterplay across a really wide range of skill levels. Decided not to change too much as a result. Kayle - Her late game is intended to be really strong (hypercarry). Intent is that she should pay for that with a pretty weak early game. If she does look out of line first thing we'd assess therefore is whether her laning's actually soft enough. Second thing would be whether, even if she struggles to get there, her late game's just too hard to deal with. Feeling pretty good at this point about her balance off internal testing, real test's always once a champ goes live though.
>Morg - we did try some other changes including on the passive. Conclusion was overall Morg's kit was in a fine spot though, including with good balance and counterplay across a really wide range of skill levels. Decided not to change too much as a result. Mad respect for this decision. I sincerely appreciate the time when you guys stay very true to a champ's gameplay pattern while making changes and polishing older kits. Morg, Cassio, Ezreal, Xin, Heimer, etc. are great examples of that, and it's a big relief when an update still feels familiar.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 20
Good info on CS bounties. I agree they aren't very transparent or easy to understand the triggers, etc. Can you tell us if Zyra's plants will be getting hp fixes? Or if you're concerned about Lissandra trending toward an "elo gap?"
: According to my match History, this is my 6th account started December of last year as my third smurf account. I played her in Season 4 *whistles.
That makes you look worse, not better. At least having not played her pre-7.24 could make sense of the things you're saying.
: We're parsing weeds now, but I'm going to only comment on one thing: Heim is interactional; You just need to learn to play around the turrets. For example, Stealth, Mag shields, dives, Dashes, Long range Nuke. He's generally far easier to approach than Zyra. Orianna does have a similar effect for some champions. She does have significant gap if she misses though. Syndra is only a challenge when one champ is involved, and the entire exchange is frontal (Kai Sa) Vel Koz can be face tanked with Mag resist, and he's slow. You just need to burn a skill or two of his to go in. Ziggs I'd agree. Zoe is super easy to get near. Just dodge E and go. (and don't use summoners) Lux I'd agree.
>Vel Koz can be face tanked with Mag resist, and he's slow. Has the same MS as Zyra. Also has an ult that deals 800 +1.25 AP *true damage.* >She does have significant gap if she misses though. Her Q has base CD of 3 seconds by level 9 with no CDR. >He's generally far easier to approach than Zyra. Are you trolling me?
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Vekkna

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