: Is picking X champion in X role considered "Toxic" and/or "Troll"
> I've been playing Veigar support in ranked for the last few weeks. Because it's a VERY unconventional pick, and because it can dramatically change the way the rest of the team plays and builds (especially the ADC), I explain what I would like to do and ask if they're ok with it. And here's the thing: > Veigar is conventional.
: "I wish I had a support" is more punishable than making fun of autism.
I would be highly suspicious if "I wish I had a support" was punishable. > [{quoted}](name=Chermorg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NWxEncey,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-05-04T20:47:12.392+0000) > > What was your intent in saying "wish I had a support" other than to berate the support for being bad then? I'm curious to hear what legitimate reason to had to say that. If someone IS being bad, a casual mention at the current game state should be okay.
Faln (NA)
: very low elo players mindset
I farm when I know I can't contribute. I farm when I know I'm stronger than the enemy team. I only group if I'm not behind or ahead and we're actually doing something. What i don't like are people that are say, 0/x and try to group. Just because you died 1v1, 10+ times, it doesn't mean grouping will suddenly fix all issues.
Asterfix (NA)
: I'm angry that I can't report someone for first timing a champion in ranked.
I tell them I have a 20% win rate instead...... usually they're like "well give you another role."
: There’s something I don’t understand about the mana/minions changes
uh what..... these changes give you MORE MANA to play with early on. making it more interactive.
Chermorg (NA)
: I'm glad tribunal was based on the desire of the community and not just what you yourself wanted.
> [{quoted}](name=Chermorg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0JIhtyBM,comment-id=000000000000000100000001000000040000,timestamp=2018-05-04T00:05:36.641+0000) > > I'm glad tribunal was based on the desire of the community and not just what you yourself wanted. This assertion with the connotation that the player would have been punished is equally valid as the assertion that the player would not be. If I was in the tribunal, game 2 had no purpose of being there and game 1, wouldn't be something I'd personally condemn.
Venompaw (NA)
: I can't trust people anymore.
Update: I got an instant feedback report!
Rioter Comments
Mordius (NA)
: Banning teammate's champion in champ select
> The banning phase takes priority over the picking phase - that's how the game works. There would be just as many trolls if "hover" took priority over banning - but the damage would be quite a bit greater, as trolls could block pick or ban champs by hovering them as last pick, letting the enemy pick them. > I disagree. If someone's going to troll, you're going to lose regardless.
: Trollers and Feeders
Because you win since the other team decided to feed and troll.
Chermorg (NA)
: I didn't say you're ugly, I just said your clothing is ugly. That doesn't *imply* that you're ugly or anything. Calling someone's pick useless is the same as saying "you're useless in this game". It is insulting and not appropriate in League. Attempting to hide toxicity behind the veil of not *directly* and *hardcore* flaming doesn't make it any less toxic. Putting poison in a bottle that says Orange Juice doesn't make it any less poison.
> [{quoted}](name=Chermorg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0JIhtyBM,comment-id=000000000000000100000001000000020000,timestamp=2018-05-03T15:44:37.182+0000) > > I didn't say you're ugly, I just said your clothing is ugly. That doesn't *imply* that you're ugly or anything. > > Calling someone's pick useless is the same as saying "you're useless in this game". It is insulting and not appropriate in League. > > Attempting to hide toxicity behind the veil of not *directly* and *hardcore* flaming doesn't make it any less toxic. Putting poison in a bottle that says Orange Juice doesn't make it any less poison. Someone's pick can be useless. This is an opinion. It's not toxic. It's an undeniable fact that some champions are useless against others. Care to dispute this fact?
: > [{quoted}](name=Chermorg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0JIhtyBM,comment-id=0000000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-03T15:09:46.982+0000) > > Harassment, calling people useless, acting as if they're the boss and know everything and everyone must follow them. > > Not a positive attitude for sure, and in fact very negative. Honestly this post is a terrible example of all of that. If you say this is toxic we honestly should remove in game chat because anything said about the game can now be labelled as toxic.
> [{quoted}](name=SparklingLama,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0JIhtyBM,comment-id=00000000000000010000000100000001,timestamp=2018-05-03T15:18:48.802+0000) > > Honestly this post is a terrible example of all of that. If you say this is toxic we honestly should remove in game chat because anything said about the game can now be labelled as toxic. I agree entirely. You can label somethings as MINORLY toxic if you go nit-picking but it really is a poor game to be shown from the IFS.
: Everyone will have 5 MMRs next season. If you are an adc main next season and get autofilled jungle, you can go disco nunu and it will have no impact on your LP or MMR for adc. Knowing that people would worry about this, Riot specifically, but vaguely, addressed that they would come up with a way for punishing players performing suspiciously poorly in their off roles. Did you read that Dev corner post? Maybe I misunderstood it but it seemed pretty explicit to me that they are planning on adjusting the punishment system
> [{quoted}](name=comedybingbongs,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=pyhfMBeG,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-03T15:11:52.595+0000) > > Everyone will have 5 MMRs next season. If you are an adc main next season and get autofilled jungle, you can go disco nunu and it will have no impact on your LP or MMR for adc. > > Knowing that people would worry about this, Riot specifically, but vaguely, addressed that they would come up with a way for punishing players performing suspiciously poorly in their off roles. Did you read that Dev corner post? Maybe I misunderstood it but it seemed pretty explicit to me that they are planning on adjusting the punishment system 5 mmrs... WHAT INCENTIVE do I have to play off roles then? This sounds like the worst idea ever....
Chermorg (NA)
: Harassment, calling people useless, acting as if they're the boss and know everything and everyone must follow them. Not a positive attitude for sure, and in fact very negative.
> [{quoted}](name=Chermorg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0JIhtyBM,comment-id=0000000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-03T15:09:46.982+0000) > > Harassment, calling people useless, acting as if they're the boss and know everything and everyone must follow them. > > Not a positive attitude for sure, and in fact very negative. but for game 2 he didn't..... It's certainly implied displeasure at his teamates actiosn but that counts as fair criticism and analysis.
: Will poor performance being punishable next season with the ranked changes?
but what is suspiciously poor? I have horrible records on Twitch bot lane and Azir bot lane, the only difference is one is meta and the other is not.
Chermorg (NA)
: Your concept of logic is certainly your opinion. A logical conclusion is almost never pure fact. You have no right to assume your logic is perfect and force it on others. The old tribunal would have punished this OP. I participated in tribunal quite a bit with a well I've 90% accuracy (can't remember the exact number). The OPs blaming, insulting, harassing, and "holier than thou" attitude are certainly something that was commonly punished by tribunal.
> [{quoted}](name=Chermorg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0JIhtyBM,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-03T14:34:55.255+0000) > > Your concept of logic is certainly your opinion. A logical conclusion is almost never pure fact. You have no right to assume your logic is perfect and force it on others. > > The old tribunal would have punished this OP. I participated in tribunal quite a bit with a well I've 90% accuracy (can't remember the exact number). The OPs blaming, insulting, harassing, and "holier than thou" attitude are certainly something that was commonly punished by tribunal. What in game 2, do you find offensive? Edit: Why won't the reply marker show up?
nuletic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=archerno1,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0JIhtyBM,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-05-03T09:18:32.349+0000) > > From those chat logs its clear that you didnt have trolls, but that yyou call teammates trolls every time they make bad decision or mistake. Hell these lines shiw it clearly: > > > RiftScuttlerOP: our mid trolled > RiftScuttlerOP: not intentionally > RiftScuttlerOP: just his play > > Calling teammates trolls when they make mistakes isnt constructive criticism. Its plain and simple abuse. You are not victim here. Even if it might not be constructive, that's not the same as being "toxic". That's like saying, because someone wasn't Mother Teresa, they must be terrible. It's a really unrealistic standard to hold someone to. If someone dives the enemy full HP under turret and they don't realize what will happen, that doesn't make them less of a troll in a ranked game.
> [{quoted}](name=nuletic,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0JIhtyBM,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-05-03T14:53:45.913+0000) > > Even if it might not be constructive, that's not the same as being "toxic". That's like saying, because someone wasn't Mother Teresa, he must be terrible. It's a really unrealistic standard to hold someone to. If someone dives the enemy full HP under turret and they don't realize what will happen, that doesn't make them less of a troll in a ranked game. But some champions CAN dive people that are full hp under turret.
: The thing is that when people flame me and if i return the flame > i get chat restriction and they go away like nothing happened. Nice justice there.
> [{quoted}](name=PowerSlave993,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0JIhtyBM,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-05-03T14:01:46.952+0000) > > The thing is that when people flame me and if i return the flame > i get chat restriction and they go away like nothing happened. Nice justice there. I think both players get a chat restriction?
Chermorg (NA)
: >Just got chat restricted because I guess the trolls in my game didn't like that I wasn't happy with their choices. No, you were chat restricted because instead of being a victim, you used their crimes to justify committing crimes of your own. The fact that other people have committed theft does not give you the right to go do so. This isn't a "but they did it first" or "everyone *else* jumped off a cliff" scenario. You're responsible for your actions. >and being incapable of viewing either the game or the full logs to see what/who I'm responding to. Riot is **more than capable** of viewing the game and the full chat logs. They do not normally do so because **it doesn't matter**. You're responsible for your chat. You choose to hit enter. You choose to type. You choose to hit enter again to send the message. That's three things that nobody else forced you to do. >Honesty not allowed, criticism not allowed, analysis not allowed. Honesty, criticism, and analysis are allowed. Harassing and insulting other players is not. You were doing the latter. >They can int games and that's OK. They can AFK and that's OK. Those things are not OK. Those things are very commonly punished. Even so, it does not give you a free pass to be toxic in chat. >It's not like I called them retards or told them to jump off a bridge. You don't have to use hateful and offensive speech to be insulting and abusive.
> No, you were chat restricted because instead of being a victim, you used their crimes to justify committing crimes of your own. The fact that other people have committed theft does not give you the right to go do so. This isn't a "but they did it first" or "everyone else jumped off a cliff" scenario. You're responsible for your actions. > > There are no crimes here. It wasn't even flaming. > Riot is more than capable of viewing the game and the full chat logs. They do not normally do so because it doesn't matter. You're responsible for your chat. You choose to hit enter. You choose to type. You choose to hit enter again to send the message. That's three things that nobody else forced you to do. Context DOES matter. I'm not sure how the IFS is set up, but I bet it got flagged due to the word: trolled. > > Honesty, criticism, and analysis are allowed. Harassing and insulting other players is not. You were doing the latter. > Insulting? people need to get thicker skin. This is on the border of being a false positive. > > Those things are not OK. Those things are very commonly punished. Even so, it does not give you a free pass to be toxic in chat. > Game 2 has NO offensive comments. Game 1 has a few borderline comments but I would say it's not enough to warrant a chat restriction. > > > You don't have to use hateful and offensive speech to be insulting and abusive. Your attitude / history of posts on the boards is offensive. All you do seems to be posting to justify "lolol the system is right." With the blessing of the boards, and a few posts I can link to, I think I should report everyone every game for verbal abuse because nothing will happen to me if I do and I might get the joy of getting people punished over and over.
: PSA: dont play ranked with a champion you're new with.
i play new champions in ranked if I want to. You can't stop me either. Doing badly is not reportable.
XHick (NA)
: How to not Rage type against trolls?
> Mind you that our graves was 2-9 and repeatedly was dying every time he tried to split. We tried to explain to graves that we should either fight as 5 or let pantheon split because nobody on their team could 1v1 pantheon yet. His response to that was simply you all know nothing, "if i can't split its gg". > Graves should be splitting. Your team should be forcing fights as 4v4.
XHick (NA)
: How to not Rage type against trolls?
Are they inting? If so, complaining won't change it. Are they just bad? Accusing them will likely make them worse. Define griefing though.
Mob Piru (NA)
: sustain supports are actually the best ones in the game right now {{champion:267}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:497}} with adc having no MR to start the game players who pick ap healers are doing tons of more dmg in lane, so now getting hit my namis abilties and janna tornados hurt alot more now. so therefore they legit have the best of both worlds. Ranged dmg and heals shields poly mophs stuns all that shit all in one champ. they are legit god tier
> [{quoted}](name=Jerzey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ifOGJZz4,comment-id=000000000000000100000001,timestamp=2018-05-01T17:29:01.325+0000) > > sustain supports are actually the best ones in the game right now {{champion:267}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:497}} > > with adc having no MR to start the game players who pick ap healers are doing tons of more dmg in lane, so now getting hit my namis abilties and janna tornados hurt alot more now. so therefore they legit have the best of both worlds. Ranged dmg and heals shields poly mophs stuns all that shit all in one champ. they are legit god tier not in my world. Those champs on my team if I'm adc = high chance to lose.
: Have you seen the new updates to mana? Regen is going to be hard to come by. Mages are going to fall out of favor just like tanks did. You won't be able to have Brands and Zyras in lane for too long because of their already pretty bad mana issues. Have you played as a mage support before? The amount of poking you need to do in order to push the other team out of lane or to lower them enough for a kill is very painstaking. If they have a sustain support against your mage support they will be in lane for a long time in comparison. Edit: They're nerfing spelltheifs mana regen. It's an essential item for Zyra Brand Lux etc.
> [{quoted}](name=MikaGeeks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ifOGJZz4,comment-id=000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-05-01T16:32:40.013+0000) > > Have you seen the new updates to mana? Regen is going to be hard to come by. Mages are going to fall out of favor just like tanks did. You won't be able to have Brands and Zyras in lane for too long because of their already pretty bad mana issues. Have you played as a mage support before? The amount of poking you need to do in order to push the other team out of lane or to lower them enough for a kill is very painstaking. If they have a sustain support against your mage support they will be in lane for a long time in comparison. > > Edit: > They're nerfing spelltheifs mana regen. It's an essential item for Zyra Brand Lux etc. They're not live yet. Buffing base mana should make mage supports even stronger.
: You DO need sustain. There are lots of heavy poke mages in the meta as supports right now. Sustain supports like Soraka and especially Nami are incredibly useful because we just need to take coin, wait for the enemy mage support to blow all their mana trying to poke, and then both heal you and hurt them. Nami is incredible when it comes to damage + sustain. And yes, do yourself and your support a favor and try not to get caught out. Let the supports make the plays and you follow them up.
> [{quoted}](name=MikaGeeks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ifOGJZz4,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2018-05-01T16:23:32.337+0000) > > You DO need sustain. There are lots of heavy poke mages in the meta as supports right now. Sustain supports like Soraka and especially Nami are incredibly useful because we just need to take coin, wait for the enemy mage support to blow all their mana trying to poke, and then both heal you and hurt them. Nami is incredible when it comes to damage + sustain. And yes, do yourself and your support a favor and try not to get caught out. Let the supports make the plays and you follow them up. sustain supports are bad. The bot lane is decided by the best AP support. If you don't have one, it should be an autoloss. Mages don't run out of mana anymore.
Mob Piru (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Venompaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ifOGJZz4,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-01T15:10:14.883+0000) > > This is why I lose most of my games when paired with tanks or healers. They want to do something on their own but they can't. While Brand just deletes them from a safe distance. in those games just tell ur support to let them engage and u kite back and call for ganks. When ur have healer or just a tank u usually want to play passive. healer ur just tryna famr up and out sustain them. for a tank u wanna abuse CD and go in when they cant fight back
> [{quoted}](name=Jerzey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ifOGJZz4,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-05-01T15:15:41.856+0000) > > in those games just tell ur support to let them engage and u kite back and call for ganks. When ur have healer or just a tank u usually want to play passive. healer ur just tryna famr up and out sustain them. for a tank u wanna abuse CD and go in when they cant fight back but see, I don't need sustain and if I'm caught out of position vs useful champions, I'm dead anyway making the healer not so useful.
Mob Piru (NA)
: A message to supports from your ADC
This is why I lose most of my games when paired with tanks or healers. They want to do something on their own but they can't. While Brand just deletes them from a safe distance.
BoOmFaZe (NA)
: Banned because somebody trolled my ranked game.
> BoOmFaZe: good boy > BoOmFaZe: Treat > BoOmFaZe: wow raka > BoOmFaZe: no heals for me > BoOmFaZe: reported > BoOmFaZe: im ready baby > BoOmFaZe: lets go baby > BoOmFaZe: WATCH OUT > BoOmFaZe: STALL > BoOmFaZe: IM DOING 238 DAMAGE TO TOWER > BoOmFaZe: nice team > BoOmFaZe: stupid hed > BoOmFaZe: dumb heads > I find THIS to be a far bigger issue. Like really.......
: > [{quoted}](name=SpaceRazzerKappa,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4qaEZv0K,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-01T14:30:04.491+0000) > > No because what you are not thinkeng about are the trolls the people who play ranked to troll their team is you want to doge so you wont lose 14 LP from a loss you should be greatly punished for saving your team from a troll still sitting here now up to **16** dodges in a row. think that's acceptable?
> [{quoted}](name=only trash teams,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4qaEZv0K,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-05-01T14:42:21.071+0000) > > still sitting here now up to **16** dodges in a row. > > think that's acceptable? Cancel queue, wait like 2 minutes.
Rioter Comments
: Riot needs to specify what is considered as flaming and what isn't.
ConeJzma (EUNE)
: So people are banning my champ on purpose.. If i declare yasuo they ban him
Dasdi96 (NA)
: To support mains: when ap carry bot becomes viable, here is how to support one:
AP carries don't need peel. If you do, you're playing it WRONG. Get a lux or morgana and double the damage.
Dasdi96 (NA)
: Riot, if you want ap carry bot to be viable:
AP Carry bot is viable. I play Karthus bot lane.
: Can someone explain what Riot does about players intentionally letting the enemy team win in ranked?
Because if you believe there's potential for a miraculous comeback and I do not, leave me out of it and I'll witness it in action or we lose faster. Win-win.
Dragfin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Venompaw,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=68hJEqvu,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-26T20:03:36.021+0000) > > Why would you surrender a winning or winnable game? There's a reason why that is. It's cool if you want to go off subject but I hope it's also cool that I tell you that your post is an ignorant post that has nothing whatsoever to do with mine. Maybe you can explain yourself a bit better?
> [{quoted}](name=Dragfin,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=68hJEqvu,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-26T20:22:16.208+0000) > > It's cool if you want to go off subject but I hope it's also cool that I tell you that your post is an ignorant post that has nothing whatsoever to do with mine. Maybe you can explain yourself a bit better? > > > The percentage of players who initiate a surrender with a KDA bordering on intentional feeding or even a negative KDA not just the full surrender itself. > This bit.
Dragfin (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Der Lindwurm,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=68hJEqvu,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-04-26T16:33:37.941+0000) > > This. Most players can't adapt and would probably argue that they shouldn't have to if they're good enough. If playing the same way they always do and doing the same things they always do isn't working out for them, they just want to "reset" and try again rather than learning to play from behind and accepting that it's not always going to be all about them and they might actually have to work closely with teammates who are doing better. I'd even go far as to challenge RIOT and their minions who invade this board to show us the following number... The percentage of players who initiate a surrender with a KDA bordering on intentional feeding or even a negative KDA not just the full surrender itself. I would wager that the number would be somewhere between 80% and 90%, maybe higher. IMO this is abuse and anything that can be easily abused like this coddling surrender option needs to be stripped from the game. Show us the number RIOT. I know you have it or can get it. Stop justifying it with the reason we all know it's supposed to be used for and get rid of it because it's not being used for what it's supposed to be used for.
> [{quoted}](name=Dragfin,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=68hJEqvu,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-04-26T16:51:30.502+0000) > > I'd even go far as to challenge RIOT and their minions who invade this board to show us the following number... > > The percentage of players who initiate a surrender with a KDA bordering on intentional feeding or even a negative KDA not just the full surrender itself. > > I would wager that the number would be somewhere between 80% and 90%, maybe higher. > > IMO this is abuse and anything that can be easily abused like this coddling surrender option needs to be stripped from the game. > > > Show us the number RIOT. I know you have it or can get it. Stop justifying it with the reason we all know it's supposed to be used for and get rid of it because it's not being used for what it's supposed to be used for. Why would you surrender a winning or winnable game? There's a reason why that is.
Snowman Arc (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Venompaw,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UAu0OpqZ,comment-id=0002000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-26T15:09:31.255+0000) > > Die in splitpush, will also likely die in team fight. > > The penalty of bad strategies should be failure to climb, which this person is experiencing. This player also invalidates any attempt from his teammates to win, which is toxic.
> [{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UAu0OpqZ,comment-id=00020000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-26T15:40:45.915+0000) > > This player also invalidates any attempt from his teammates to win, which is toxic. but if he grouped, would his team have won or just lost differently?
Snowman Arc (EUNE)
: Well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. At the same time, I'd have to realize that this was just a big bunch of lucky games, if my team managed to essentially win 4v5, and the chances of it happening consistently are really really low. Eventually, I'd be hit with a 100-game losing streak if I kept doing it.
> [{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UAu0OpqZ,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-04-26T15:10:15.777+0000) > > Well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. At the same time, I'd have to realize that this was just a big bunch of lucky games, if my team managed to essentially win 4v5, and the chances of it happening consistently are really really low. Eventually, I'd be hit with a 100-game losing streak if I kept doing it. But what if you're so bad that by taking gold from assists, you decrease your team's chances of winning?
: Vayne,twitch and draven are the top 3 i could expect to match her, idk about outdmg, but the thing this varus didnt realize is his build didnt work with grouping which our whole team was trying to do. In the end he couldve put more dmg down in teamfights than her but he refused to group and his build was trash for grouping. But i understand your point of view.
> [{quoted}](name=Bae4Jibril,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=BQ5iUPqo,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-04-26T14:39:06.650+0000) > > Vayne,twitch and draven are the top 3 i could expect to match her, idk about outdmg, but the thing this varus didnt realize is his build didnt work with grouping which our whole team was trying to do. In the end he couldve put more dmg down in teamfights than her but he refused to group and his build was trash for grouping. But i understand your point of view. Vayne, match, kai'sa, are you joking? Also, why wouldn't AP varus work with grouping? Ult > spread>detonate.
Snowman Arc (EUNE)
: When you try to splitpush with no vision and die 8 TIMES in one game, while your team doesn't get an advantage elsewhere, but instead the enemy gets big advantages while you're dead, it should be an indication to stop fucking splitpushing without vision. I'm not saying he shouldn't do it the next game, because the outcome could be different. What I am saying is that "oh, look, they killed me while I was trying to push the tower, it's ok I'll try again, oh it happened again, oh it's ok, I'll try ag... oh they killed me again". Eventually, I should just stop trying to splitpush and actually do something that helps the team. DISCLAIMER: If my splitpush and my death actually means that my team gets advantages elsewhere, then that's ok. But, if my strat instead makes the game worse for us and I keep doing it, then I'm in fault and essentially inting. Now, based on experience, if the bad strat in one game happened to be bad in my next game, and then the game after, and the game after that, then I should realize that 1) that strat is generally bad, and I should avoid using it, or 2) if I have the luxury to risk trying it and failing again, I shouldn't attempt it again in that game. At the end of the day, I should be able to assess the situation and avoid doing something purposefully that, based on prior experience, loses me the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UAu0OpqZ,comment-id=000200000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-04-26T15:01:59.612+0000) > > When you try to splitpush with no vision and die 8 TIMES in one game, while your team doesn't get an advantage elsewhere, but instead the enemy gets big advantages while you're dead, it should be an indication to stop fucking splitpushing without vision. I'm not saying he shouldn't do it the next game, because the outcome could be different. What I am saying is that "oh, look, they killed me while I was trying to push the tower, it's ok I'll try again, oh it happened again, oh it's ok, I'll try ag... oh they killed me again". Eventually, I should just stop trying to splitpush and actually do something that helps the team. DISCLAIMER: If my splitpush and my death actually means that my team gets advantages elsewhere, then that's ok. But, if my strat instead makes the game worse for us and I keep doing it, then I'm in fault and essentially inting. > > Now, based on experience, if the bad strat in one game happened to be bad in my next game, and then the game after, and the game after that, then I should realize that 1) that strat is generally bad, and I should avoid using it, or 2) if I have the luxury to risk trying it and failing again, I shouldn't attempt it again in that game. At the end of the day, I should be able to assess the situation and avoid doing something purposefully that, based on prior experience, loses me the game. Die in splitpush, will also likely die in team fight. > > The last time he got masters is I believe season 6. S7 he was hardstuck Diamond, same this season. So no, he didn't get masters so far in almost 2 years. The meta changed around him and what worked back then doesn't work now. So, maybe he should actually change his strategy. > Also, I got from gold 4 to plat 3 playing mostly Janna this season. I had a 63% winrate over 100 games with her, up until I started dropping. I realized what I was doing up to that point doesn't work that well anymore, so I changed my strat and tried other roles to success. > The penalty of bad strategies should be failure to climb, which this person is experiencing.
Snowman Arc (EUNE)
: How long till you ban this famous streamer?
What if you play Soraka Jungle but won 3 games in a row while having no contribution cause you died to wolves over and over? Keep doing it?
Chermorg (NA)
: To be fair, dying is feeding. But feeding isn't inherently bad, only when intentional.
> [{quoted}](name=Chermorg,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=M4J6GdFE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-04-26T05:35:30.886+0000) > > To be fair, dying is feeding. > > But feeding isn't inherently bad, only when intentional. Dying without a cause is feeding. You can't expect a perfect KDA every game.
: *adc* Apcarry varus flames me.
...... are you expecting ANYONE to outdamage Kai'sa?
Snowman Arc (EUNE)
: How long till you ban this famous streamer?
> Honestly, I wasn't attempting to manipulate. I just wanted to point out how having a big losing streak and keep trying the same thing you used to get that losing streak is wrong. The fact that it might have granted him a winning streak before doesn't mean he should blindly just keep using it. Also, it doesn't mean he should never use it again just because he got a losing streak either. > > All I'm saying is that he (and all players) should adapt. And it's not like "oh look my strategy didn't work in one game and we lost because of it". I have lost games where my own strategy didn't work, but I learn from it and realize that if a similar situation occurs again, I should avoid that strategy because we will lose again. I'd consider myself inting, if I kept doing the same thing that lost me other games. > Based on this, you can't decide not to split push before the game even begins.
Snowman Arc (EUNE)
: Well, that playstyle worked in those games, but in other games, it didn't. As I said before, if you keep banging your head against the wall over and over again, and wondering why it hurts, then you have a problem and it's your fault. If you keep doing the same strategy in a game over and over again and dying and losing because of it, then it's your fault for losing, Keeping on doing it in the next game to the exact same result means that you should stop doing in, at least for that particular game. Trying it on the next game should be the way to go, maybe in the next game it will work. In different situations, the same strategy will have different results. Splitpushing in one game might grant you a win, and doing so in another game might cost you the game. Therefore, since you know that doing something might cost you the game, you should stop doing it. If you keep doing it, knowing that based on your track record you're gonna lose, then you should be punished.
> [{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UAu0OpqZ,comment-id=0002000000000001,timestamp=2018-04-26T13:58:28.679+0000) > > Well, that playstyle worked in those games, but in other games, it didn't. As I said before, if you keep banging your head against the wall over and over again, and wondering why it hurts, then you have a problem and it's your fault. > If you keep doing the same strategy in a game over and over again and dying and losing because of it, then it's your fault for losing, Keeping on doing it in the next game to the exact same result means that you should stop doing in, at least for that particular game. Trying it on the next game should be the way to go, maybe in the next game it will work. > > In different situations, the same strategy will have different results. Splitpushing in one game might grant you a win, and doing so in another game might cost you the game. Therefore, since you know that doing something might cost you the game, you should stop doing it. If you keep doing it, knowing that based on your track record you're gonna lose, then you should be punished. But the outcome isn't known beforehand. So, 3 games you play "meta" then lose. So, stop playing meta the next game?
Snowman Arc (EUNE)
: It is Hash. First of all, that playstyle got him to Diamond. If that's the case, it seems like lately, in that elo he is now, it doesn't work anymore. It's apparent from his big losing streaks and general win-loss ratio. Just because it worked in lower elo doesn't mean it works here, which means he needs to change it up and adapt, otherwise it can be considered feeding. Also, just because it worked in past seasons, doesn't mean it works now. Meta changes and a strategy that worked back then might not work now, because the dynamic of the game changed. I have a good personal example as to why you should change your playstyle and adapt, and why is should be punishable if you, essentially, keep banging your head against the wall and asking why it hurts. I play assassin Jarvan on my silver smurfs and I WRECK people, it's free elo. I have terrible games when I do this in platinum elo, to the point that I realized that this playstyle just won't work, so I changed it. Lack of adapting over A SERIES OF GAMES to what the game needs, thus resulting in having terrible KDA and big losing streaks, should be punishable, either with the casual punishments for inting, or less harsh, like dropping a division. Seeing how it's really hard to drop from a V division to the lower I division, the guy would just play in Diamond V elo for so many games before he drops, and there would be quite a lot of players suffering from his incompetence. Inting or not aside, the guy is also quite toxic. Not as much in chat, though, but he is quite toxic on stream and sets a bad image for the game. In chat, he NEVER coordinates or listens to the team, and when he fucks up, he always blames his team and blames how everything else is OP, apart from the things he plays. He always blames his jungler, he even blamed his VASTLY WINNING bot lane for not being able to carry his trash ass, and all that was actually said in the game chat! Seeing how the guy has also been penalized on other accounts before (or at least I assume he is), the fact that he can still have multiple accounts while streaming and getting away with his toxic behavior is baffling me.
> [{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UAu0OpqZ,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-04-26T13:34:18.355+0000) > > It is Hash. > > First of all, that playstyle got him to Diamond. If that's the case, it seems like lately, in that elo he is now, it doesn't work anymore. It's apparent from his big losing streaks and general win-loss ratio. Just because it worked in lower elo doesn't mean it works here, which means he needs to change it up and adapt, otherwise it can be considered feeding. Also, just because it worked in past seasons, doesn't mean it works now. Meta changes and a strategy that worked back then might not work now, because the dynamic of the game changed. > > I have a good personal example as to why you should change your playstyle and adapt, and why is should be punishable if you, essentially, keep banging your head against the wall and asking why it hurts. I play assassin Jarvan on my silver smurfs and I WRECK people, it's free elo. I have terrible games when I do this in platinum elo, to the point that I realized that this playstyle just won't work, so I changed it. > > Lack of adapting over A SERIES OF GAMES to what the game needs, thus resulting in having terrible KDA and big losing streaks, should be punishable, either with the casual punishments for inting, or less harsh, like dropping a division. Seeing how it's really hard to drop from a V division to the lower I division, the guy would just play in Diamond V elo for so many games before he drops, and there would be quite a lot of players suffering from his incompetence. > > Inting or not aside, the guy is also quite toxic. Not as much in chat, though, but he is quite toxic on stream and sets a bad image for the game. In chat, he NEVER coordinates or listens to the team, and when he fucks up, he always blames his team and blames how everything else is OP, apart from the things he plays. He always blames his jungler, he even blamed his VASTLY WINNING bot lane for not being able to carry his trash ass, and all that was actually said in the game chat! Seeing how the guy has also been penalized on other accounts before (or at least I assume he is), the fact that he can still have multiple accounts while streaming and getting away with his toxic behavior is baffling me. If he got to Diamond the same way, why should he change his strategy if it somehow got him to masters? If you change your strategy after every loss streak, you end up getting nowhere. if you got to say masters playing assassin Jarvan, then had a 10 loss streak ALSO playing Assassin Jarvan, why should you change it? Do the wins that came before not matter anymore?
: Giving up and Greifing
Please tell me that you don't think dying = feeding.
: Asking for reports is punishable. Just report them and move on, one report is the same as 9 reports, therefore you don't need to ask for reports against players.
> [{quoted}](name=Scary Door,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Etyy6fEl,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-26T04:14:14.471+0000) > > Asking for reports is punishable. Just report them and move on, one report is the same as 9 reports, therefore you don't need to ask for reports against players. and yet within another place, it said asking for reports is NOT punishable. Game 2 is not toxic, Game 1 is.
: permanently banned after being held hostage
> -THIS IS THE POINT WERE THEY START THE KILL TRADING AND NOT ENDING THE GAME > Omegaisking: im tirnna have a chill niught > Omegaisking: just ff and next game > Omegaisking: i dont like playing 30 min games > Omegaisking: bot lane is open > Omegaisking: and you r torlling > Omegaisking: literally cant supp > Omegaisking: nah > Omegaisking: my supp keeps getting me killed > Omegaisking: thats not torlling > Omegaisking: thats me wanting to move on > Omegaisking: its apointless gmae Sounds llike the other team had the advantage? How can you end?
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Venompaw

Level 149 (NA)
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