94372148 (NA)
: Building damage is now always better than building tank stats thanks to armor/magic pen
Because most defensive items don't grant sustain. Plenty of damage items do, sadly.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ventira,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rRag09eh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-02T03:44:43.700+0000) > > And here we have a person who literally doesn't know that ZH has over a minute and a half cooldown, and that it is so laughably easy to punish ZH users by baiting out the ZH by putting pressure on them with a soft engage, and just blowing them up after it's effect expires. > > You are literally advocating for the *one thing squishies have against 0.05 or lower kill time champions* to be nerfed. C'mon. Well, to be fair, burst mages can kill assassins just as fast.
And Assassins have Edge of Night to counter them, and also Mobility.
: What Exactly Makes Kalista So Terrible?
There's an indepth video on Kalista's downfall from her former place as queen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDOYVAX6C3Y
dune32 (NA)
: zhonyas is way to powerful!
And here we have a person who literally doesn't know that ZH has over a minute and a half cooldown, and that it is so laughably easy to punish ZH users by baiting out the ZH by putting pressure on them with a soft engage, and just blowing them up after it's effect expires. You are literally advocating for the *one thing squishies have against 0.05 or lower kill time champions* to be nerfed. C'mon.
onilesj (NA)
: Stopwatch is unfair
It's literally a one time use item. It's fine.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ventira,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1Eb6tXcp,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-28T06:19:41.991+0000) > > This. Preseason is literally meaningless in terms of both MMR and ranked. so why even have ranked still as an option. if its the same exact thing as norms theres 0 reason to have it as an option. 4fun players i swear lmao
There's also likewise no reason to disable it either. Our MMR's are gonna be soft-reset at the start of S10 as it always is.
: I hear you, but i don't want handouts, there is no point in playing ranked if i don't start at the bottom.
Idiotic argument of the year right here. The point of ranked is to climb higher then you placed last year. Hard crashing your MMR is literally the same effect as smurfing. It ruins new players (what few I'd imagine there are, these days.) By being pitted up against someone with experience. Quit ruining other people's games ya selfish clown.
: for a lot of players it kind of does. With no actual climbing by playing ranked it is essentially playing normals
This. Preseason is literally meaningless in terms of both MMR and ranked.
: The Effect of ARAM Balance Changes
I take it the colored spaghetti is champs?
: People troll picking and not trying in Ranked is worse than ever.
It's preseason, mate. You even acknowledge this at the start of your post. The tryhard season is over, the wtf is happening season has begun.
Mimr (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=ChaosReyn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NQARZX0r,comment-id=0001000200000000,timestamp=2019-11-21T18:53:54.056+0000) > > 1) Right now it's bugged to fuck, so your entire argument until they fix caitlyn and other champions quite literally one shotting people because of the elder buff is currently irrelevant. > > 2) Although they deserve to be punished, that punishment doesn't really fit the crime - they were winning, this entire game, they were *attempting to end*...and now suddenly they die if the right champions look at them funny. With no honest counterplay. > > 3) Have you forgotten that this is LEAGUE OF DAMAGE..? The *ONLY* time that you *MIGHT* have a point about "not having the comp or damage to do something" is on a mountain rift, and even then, that's almost not even a question. This is a discussion about the Elder buff while it's _not_ bugged. Obviously champions literally one-shotting others with Elder is not intentional. Also, if you're 15k gold down and up against a team with a dragon soul, you're NOT going to win with just elder, "League of Damage" be damned. [REMOVED BY MODERATION - ULANOPO]
Finally someone friggin gets it!
GilxeN (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ventira,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NQARZX0r,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2019-11-21T18:47:57.828+0000) > > Elder Dragon isn't so strong that it'll magically buy the losing team the power they need to win, because if the losing team lacks the comp or damage to get the enemies low enough for the execute to actually do anything, then it won't really matter. It will however, buy the losing team time to get their shit together. > > And if the winning team is pushing the enemy base with no vision or control on Elder, that's their own stupidity, and deserve to be punished for that egregious mistake. So wrong, had yday a game when enemy got elder drake, we lost instantly.
Then they weren't so far behind as to be totally irrelevant and could still actually fight. Thats what I'm referring to. If a team is so far behind that they have to *avoid* teamfighting to have any hope of winning, elder drake won't do much. However, if both teams are fairly close in terms of strength, Elder Dragon can and will turn the tide. And losing it while you're winning is a mistake. A mistake that is heavily punished, just like being caught at Baron Pit.
: Blitzcrank--AD Steel Shoulderguards or AP Relic Shield?
Technically yes, because that 3 ad from shoulderguards becomes 6 damage on his E, which is marginally more efficient then the ap.
: You youngin junglers just gotta learn how to actually path and you will see how much better it feels too.
I don't jungle otuside of that time i have time, and I can say that it felt pretty good to me as k6. Even if doing no damage outside of isolation is still the most depressing thing ever.
Axxuka (NA)
: The new support items are buffing ALL Supports right now. They save supports 1500g and they now 3g per 5s later instead of 2g. So basically supports get ALOT more gold very early on in the game. That's more gold for Senna to spend on AD items which tend to cost more than support stuff. The new AP support item also give 60 AP instead of 35 AP. So even if what you said would be right, after playing a game of Sona and checking around AP supports and Senna, they all do better in preseason due to these changes.
It's 3g/10, my dude. Not 3g/5.
: Yes it will. As Lux yesterday with Dark Harvest, my team was very behind. We lucked up and got Elder and swinged the whole game around. Lux's ultimate with DH..id just snipe them then theyd just insta died with the elder buff, its super broken. I cannot imagine Karthas with that bs lol.
It's bugged right now, as many of the other comments to my post will inform you. Which is why that last part of my post exists. Please read the whole thing next itme.
: you are one of those fanboys that if riot made a buff that if you push a button it would instantly kill the entire team; you would reply with "good, it forces people to buy a pocket watch early!". Face the facts, the buff is overpowered and has many mentioned, it leads to a losing team instantly winning simply because of luck. Its a stupid change and needs to be fixed.
Actually, no, I wouldn't. Because pushing a button and instantly killing an entire team is fucking dumb as hell. (Looking at you, fucking Neeko.) And there's no "luck" in taking elder dragon. You either smite properly or you don't, you either establish control of the area before fighting for it, or you don't, to suggest that managing to steal it from the enemy team is anything short of ballsy determination and good timing is disingenuous.
: 1) Right now it's bugged to fuck, so your entire argument until they fix caitlyn and other champions quite literally one shotting people because of the elder buff is currently irrelevant. 2) Although they deserve to be punished, that punishment doesn't really fit the crime - they were winning, this entire game, they were *attempting to end*...and now suddenly they die if the right champions look at them funny. With no honest counterplay. 3) Have you forgotten that this is LEAGUE OF DAMAGE..? The *ONLY* time that you *MIGHT* have a point about "not having the comp or damage to do something" is on a mountain rift, and even then, that's almost not even a question.
I've had numerous matches where one team literally did not have the damage to fight back even remotely efficiently. While damage is rampant in League right now, that doesn't mean there are situations where a losing team can just magically out damage their opponents. League is and has always been a game where, after a certain point, one big mistake will lose you the game, winning or not. Trying to take baron at a bad time and getting caught, leaving towers unmonitored for splitpushers to trash them, and so on so forth. Forgetting that Elder exists, especially while you have Soul, is a massive blunder on the winning team's behalf. And bugs are an aberration, if it was *functioning as intended*, Elder Dragon would not be so strong as to let a losing team suddenly trash the winning team without significant outplay.
TobiaskJ (NA)
: As someone who has 1k+ support games across multiple accounts
I had two full items by 25 minutes in my recent game as Janna, NOT INCLUDING SIGHTSTONE. The changes are fine.
: Ok, sure. But When the team that doesn't have the dragon soul, and thus has such god awful objective control, gets the elder dragon by either some stroke of luck or that desperation call while the enemy pushes in their base... Then what happens is the opposite. The team that deserves to be vaporized for blowing chunks, is suddenly executing the winning team at full hp. There are so many things wrong with your argument, but JUST THAT ONE would be enough to make me break a fucking computer.
Elder Dragon isn't so strong that it'll magically buy the losing team the power they need to win, because if the losing team lacks the comp or damage to get the enemies low enough for the execute to actually do anything, then it won't really matter. It will however, buy the losing team time to get their shit together. And if the winning team is pushing the enemy base with no vision or control on Elder, that's their own stupidity, and deserve to be punished for that egregious mistake.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ventira,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NQARZX0r,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-21T17:42:39.227+0000) > > Good, that means there's reason for people to actually exercise good obj control. These changes feel like Riot's (admittedly heavy handed) attempt to promote better teamplay rather then the assassin-stuffed burst-fest we've suffered under in S9. Except that the Assassin stuffed fest isn't because of lack of teamplay. It's because they are so overpowered number wise that they are the default picks.
And assassins are literally the antithesis to Teamplay, which proves my point (although the numbers for them also promoted their existence, but last season definitely had nothing in the way of encoruaging teamplay)
: hmm i thought the damage went up, after upgrade guess i was wrong my b. Braum still feels very sluggish tho
Nah, old Tribute gave an extra 15 magic damage to spells and aa's. 15 damage is >3 ad and 5 ap. All the new items have lower stats then the old ones, there's no way for the damage to have gone up.
Tolinar (NA)
: Positions and Skillsets - and the decline of the Plan
Honestly, I've found myself getting my first item much faster as support now. To the point I damn near have it before I even have sightstone.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ventira,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NQARZX0r,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-21T17:28:00.181+0000) > > To be fair, if you're losing FOUR dragons to the enemy team, and then a FIFTH, you kinda deserve to be vaporized for not exercising good objective control. > > Because Elder Dragon doesn't spawn until a team has the Dragon Soul, which means that at MINIMUM, either team has secured 4 dragon kills, at most, a 3-4 split (which is what, 15-20 minutes of pure spawning time for dragon?). Elder Dragon is a monstrously powerful late-game objective, as it should be. The thing is that by making them so important you pretty much make the meta champions even more important than before. You can't afford to lose dragons, their individual effects are very strong so now you need to have champions and team comps that can contest those drags from early on, and champions that can survive relatively better if they fall behind because dragons are ridiculous stat wise. Elder dragon itself has no counterplay, its faceroll and lacks a lot of interactive gameplay. Now we are gonna spend a whole year with balance issue after balance issue just so riot can make "rise of the elements II" and break an already unbalanced game even more.
Good, that means there's reason for people to actually exercise good obj control. These changes feel like Riot's (admittedly heavy handed) attempt to promote better teamplay rather then the assassin-stuffed burst-fest we've suffered under in S9.
arowin242 (EUW)
: you forget that previous dragon kills tend to stack up WITH the souls... Ocean: constant %missing HP regen -> stacking the regen even harder. mountain: increased resistances. -> making the shield more effective. Infernal: increased AD/AP -> making the AOE more effective. Cloud: up to 40% ULT CDR -> certain ult can be used every 10 seconds..... getting a dragon souls is GG, it also effectively guarantees elder, because your team has massive buffs. they dont. (there is only 1 soul per game, so only 1 team can have one.) and here is elder immolation elder: LOLOLOLOLOLOL a support can 1v1 a tank now. AKA: deal a **-load of true damage DOT and execute the poor suckers if they happen to be below 20% (its also hella bugged!!!) if they get the first 2 dragons, it might as well be GG.
Last I checked, resistances don't apply to shields.
: Elder execute is NO FUN FOR ANYBODY
To be fair, if you're losing FOUR dragons to the enemy team, and then a FIFTH, you kinda deserve to be vaporized for not exercising good objective control. Because Elder Dragon doesn't spawn until a team has the Dragon Soul, which means that at MINIMUM, either team has secured 4 dragon kills, at most, a 3-4 split (which is what, 15-20 minutes of pure spawning time for dragon?). Elder Dragon is a monstrously powerful late-game objective, as it should be.
: The thing is its really hard to get 2 second items, because of how weak his is levels 1-4. T~~he new Damage supp items do to much damage and he cant stay healthy.~~ When you try and last hit a minions for a stack, the enemy supp will explode you unless u are under doing it under tower. I think he is only viable against tank supps now who cant poke him to death. He just need some more tankiness early, i dont think im asking for to much here. The new tank supp items are a nerf to him because he loses hp and gains no benefit from the ap/ad
The new support items do less damage then previous, btw. Braum's just forced to be extremely passive and focus almost exclusively on Spoils of War and avoiding incoming damage. I had a killer game as braum recently, went 1/5/27
: What in the world are you talking about? The upgrade to 3g /10s is not even close to the old rates at Tier3 items! Its not even in the same ballpark! Ontop overall gold gen being slower in general. (As a quick example you now get +12g/minute more now, but a 4 charge relic could give you 360 gold.... for just 1 fully stacked relic! And you will still get more charged off later! To get 360g from the "improved" gold/10s you need to wait 30mins....... Often games dont even last that long....) Heres some detailed math for the relic line, if you want to understand what these changes will bring: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/KYT7n33y-lets-fix-the-new-support-items-for-riot-starting-with-the-new-relic-line?comment=0001 Now your (less) efficent gold gen is capped at 1000g, you lost important stats that you need and have to buy now with your "freed up gold", and support were behind every other role by ~3000g overall, so even if the supps safed 1400g, why was it nessesacry to completely remove their lategame income!? They dont get kills, they dont get minions, they dont get solo assists or solo objectivs and +2g/10s is a free pink ward every ~6 minutes.... The idea of free upgrades is good, but how they did it is a catastrophy.
I was literally quoting Riot in the patch notes, in regards to the gp/5 changes, I didn't crunch the math myself. Also it's 3g/10, not 2.
: There is no way this is true. 3 G / 10 = 18 G per minute. One cannon minion with Targons is triple that value. Supports have been nerfed and nerfed hard. It feels like shit to play them now.
It's really tough to say, cuz in my last game as Braum that ran 34 minutes, and I was almost full build at that point. I did have 27 assists by the end, though.
4EEB (OCE)
: The 1500 saved is offset by the garbage stats you get from the new support items which only work for optimistically 25% of the support champions, and tier 3 gives you 3g/10 seconds while a fully upgraded old relic shield gave you a minion every 20 seconds
If you could manage to still last hit, at that point, and believe me, it was fuckign impossible to last hit at that point, so the minion was pointless.
: > [{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=V3dw5g88,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-21T00:35:43.519+0000) > > Kills, assists, plating, passive gold income and the odd minion here and there. > > You need to remember you safe money by not having to upgrade it which allows you to go into your core items quicker. You're not supposed to take kills from your team. That and enchancter / tank supports rarely take kills anyway. Plates are gone by the time you complete your item. So that's one out. Odd minions dont give you income. 40~ cs the whole game can't be considered "income" You need to buy pink wards. The only realistic way to gain income is assists and the passive gold income but i must remind you that with philosopher stone + hear of gold and assists you're pretty much ward bot from season 1-2.
Nah fam, I just played a match as support (as braum, so pauldron start) was able to max my sightstone at ~20 mins, and by then I had nearly everything for zeke's convergance+ a crystal bracer.
: I've been a support main for at least 5 years. I can tell you without a doubt they made Laning phase MUCH healthier. Poke champions now aren't as abusable as before with lack of damage proc and mana regen. Tank champions can't just out Regen poke unless they commite to being useful in all ins such as Leona and Ali. Additionally the extra gold + Regen means supports will scale better into mid and late game and give ADC's some more agency early game when they will be bullied less. Anyone who complains about these support changes either 1) Doesnt know how to support without abusing poke spells sans auto attacks 2) Doesn't know how to survive Laning phase as tank without getting poked by auto attacks. If you fall into either category, learn how to position,auto harass and all in better.
Just "Dodge the spears" is, has, and never will be a valid argument. You're going to take damage in lane, there's no way around it, and since tanks generally lack decent poke, they have no recourse, especially since Spoils of War encourages them to expose themselves. The whole point of Regen is to COUNTER poke. Sustain>Poke>Burst Source: Someone's been playing support almost exclusively since season 3.
: I was wondering this too, but neat to hear that it's roughly the same.
They *Say* it's roughly the same. But is it really? Find out next time on League of LegendZ!
: Kayn build
Rhaast because Rhaast. That's all I gotta say.
: Alcoves in my opinion are just death traps.
Honestly it's something that would benefit mobile champs more. ANd only mobile champs. Rito really tryna push an exciting Worlds for S10.
: RIOT STOP UPDATING YOUR DUMB CLIENT WHEN IT MAKES US HAVE TO REINSTALL IT EVERY TIME.
: {{champion:25}} is primarily a mage not support. It can be figured out by her high AP ratios, passive and W ability.
Well yes, but she typically has something the others don't. More cc, and the ever-popular-for-saving-lives Black Shield. Lux has one snare, Brand one stun, and both of them out damage morgana significantly. Morg has a snare and a stun, and in general brings more utility beyond "look at all me damage!" like Velkoz, Brand, Lux. Lux is close to being considered a support, if I didn't hate her existence and her friggin ult.
: new support items need buffs
the diminishing gold only applies if you get 20 cs in 5 mins, if your laner is missing that much cs there's a bigger issue.| They do really need a fuckign buff, especialyl the "defensive" options.
MickuPgBz (EUW)
: Please don't keep support items this way.
Cuz apparently the gp/10 for Tier 3 is roughly equal to the amount of gold generated from the old support items, in mid-game/later, when players usually completed the old t3's. (which makes sense, after a certain point in the game relic shield users were not getting execute gold anymore.) It's also worth remembering that supports do have a grand total of 1500 freed up gold too.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ventira,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kfYMMXaE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-20T21:33:18.029+0000) > > What supports can farm 3 waves of minions effectively? While I'm not sure whether or not I agree with the OP's assessment: * Morgana * Lux * Brand * Vel'Koz * Senna Others can fairly fairly well.
Well, the only one of those I consider an actual support is Morgana, but u rite.
Uraraka (EUNE)
: Remove Anti-Poaching from Tier 3 Support items
What supports can farm 3 waves of minions effectively?
Morrhen (EUW)
: This makes you rethink how you'll use your abilities. Also makes you primarily take Precision on every Mage/Tank support just to get that sweet, sweet max 500 mana and mana refund. This means mages are now forced to rethink what items they're going to buy AND on top of that, if they're going for mana items, it means taking away power from their oppresive pokes. On one side, good! On the other side, it sucks if you're stuck with a mage/enchanter who is very nitpicky about his mana pool. As far as tank support items go, we'll never see tank ones. Riot doesn't really care enough to add items for like 5 champions.
five champions? {{champion:12}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:44}} (and to a slightly lesser extent) {{champion:497}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Ventira,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B3kdaKVq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-20T20:31:15.469+0000) > > The problem is that you can't buff mage "supports" without them totally overrunning the support role. After all, why would they go mid, when they can literally just focus on scoring kills in bot lane because they outclass literally every support that exists if they get buffed. Some mages can't midlane anymore because they were pushed off midlane. And although i agree that it started to become ridiculous with xerath "support" now it's the complete opposite. Tank supports feel bad to play, mage supports are non existant and only enchanters feel decent to play. I want variety in my role. Even though i main enchanters this will get boring pretty fast for me
The easiest thing they could do is actually make the support items relevant to the types of champs that want them. Why would braum want any of these items? 5 ad/ap aint gonna help him live better!
: > [{quoted}](name=Lord Desert,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=KYT7n33y,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-11-20T18:30:17.930+0000) > > Yep, melees will have to rush a dorans shield or Knights Vow and Enchanters will have to buy 2-3 {{item:1004}} or a {{item:3114}} ontop to counter the mana issues early on :/ > I dont know why they thought, that the free upgrade would give too much power so that they had to axe the gold gen. > This is the support roll we are talking about here afterall.... Eff that, as Leona i'm just gonna go back to Sunflower Cape/Abyssal Mask/Liandry's Torment and sell the income item as soon as it's done.
> [{quoted}](name=GinoSoldier,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=KYT7n33y,comment-id=000100010001,timestamp=2019-11-20T19:52:34.463+0000) > > Eff that, as Leona i'm just gonna go back to Sunflower Cape/Abyssal Mask/Liandry's Torment and sell the income item as soon as it's done. Lol Sunflower cape.
: Support: Reduction & Removal of Mages
The problem is that you can't buff mage "supports" without them totally overrunning the support role. After all, why would they go mid, when they can literally just focus on scoring kills in bot lane because they outclass literally every support that exists if they get buffed.
: How does a short ranged ADC play around Malph Ult?
Well there's your problem. {{champion:429}} hasn't existed in like two years.
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ventira,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KNVNVuxd,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-11-20T19:04:44.548+0000) > > *buffs for supports who do damage. No buffs for tanks. because leona naut etc clearly need buffs when they are the BEST SUPPORTS in the game by far.
what's the /s for? Pretty clear this is sarcasm. And when I say tanks I mean champs like braum and alistar, people who literally did not exist in s9 because of all the damage.
ßadash (NA)
: yea your prob right lol what are your thought on viktor mid? never rly got into him is he a little tuff to play?
He's very tough to play, immobile, and largely short range. I'm not a mid expert, though, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
ßadash (NA)
: lmao yea saw they got nerfed again... ik mid and jug are still prob best but out of mid, top or jug which would you say is best?
Probably mid due to roam and obj control, also the many new tools in assassin toolkits >_>
ßadash (NA)
: Best lane for Preseason atm?
definitely not bot lane lmao
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