: Hey Vesh, I was wondering if this feature would be implemented into 'A' click as well?
it's specifically for attack moving (a-click is the default)
: I am so confused now. so the new system your implying would instead chase down the target I right clicked, not the one closest to me?
This is only for an attack-move command (not attack, not move) that slightly misses whatever you were trying to click on. It makes the "I almost clicked on this unit case but instead attack the closest unit to my champion" into "I almost clicked on this unit but it's clearly the closest thing to my cursor so I'm still going to attack it."
: no this is a horrible idea. so your saying in teamfights if I was to right click the annie that was fleeing at a quarter of health I would instead start attacking the rengar who is trying to kill me!?! no rito this is a horrible idea and makes the game worse.
i can't tell if you're trolling or just misunderstood. This changes Attack Move to attack what you are trying to click on INSTEAD of the closest thing, which is what already happens on Live.
: my intent is too attack the enemy that is fleeing but instead you want me to attack someone who is closer to me!?! that's absurd!
wait... what? the current system makes you attack the closest thing, not this change.
: Well gl then. Years of playing Starcraft and Warcraft 3 pretty much conditioned me to the current attack move system so I'm pretty down with what we have atm. But if this really improves experience, more power to ya. Even though I don't play {{champion:119}} any longer thanks to his frustratingly unsatisfying new Passive, I hope this change won't have any effect on him, because he is by ***FAR*** the ADC where the attack move function is used most often on.
The attack move system should ideally feel the same to everyone else who uses it already. This just adds new specific target priorities when your intent seems to be to attack something else that isn't the closest thing.
: So basicallyyou're replacing orb walking now? I'm not sure how I feel about hat...will have to try it out once my keyboard doesn't lag my computer (it is wireless).
Orb walking is still the same. This makes it easier for you to orb walk while attacking a target that isn't the closest one to you (but still in your range). For instance, if Taric and Sivir are running at you as you're playing Cait, you want to kite backwards while ideally attacking Sivir instead of Taric, but if Taric is even a few pixels in front of Sivir you will attack him instead if you don't precisely click directly on sivir every time (this isn't even an attack move at that point, it's just an attack and a move). With this change, as long as you're clicking closer to Sivir than Taric when you're orb walking, you will attack her instead.
: I can see a lot of cases where this works out, yet, what will the implications be for melee champions? I'm also afraid this system may misread my intentions if my mouse is just a nanometre closer to a target further than my intended target and my squishy ranged ADC walks up to the further target while the close up target clobbers him? Those are likely going to be rare and unlikely circumstances, especially what with...the whole not having played under such a system yet. But still, I'm only partially on board.
You will only walk forward a maximum of 50 units (this is almost nothing in league) and only if you were really really damn close to clicking on a unit. In general, the system will assume you do NOT want to walk forward to attack something out of range. (unless it's the specific case mentioned above). This is one of the many points that we need to tune together though. Maybe 50 units isn't enough at all, or maybe anything larger than the attack range will feel bad. Only way to find out is to get a lot of opinions when people play it!
  Rioter Comments
: @Riot: Before you rework Urgot, please look at Cassiopeia as an example.
When we do Urgot, the changes will likely be pretty large. I wouldn't worry about his pattern right now, because it will probably change a decent amount (although I agree with Morello that some form of "lock on" will be an important thing to keep, but I'd rather turn the cool factor to an 11 instead of just making it powerful).
Learn34 (NA)
: I disagree with your statement that Sion had no gameplay identity. He simply had two distinct, common identities, which was not a bad thing. Some people played Sion AD, and these often went into the Jungle. Others played Sion AP, and these usually went Top or Mid. The real problem is that the community was not willing to look into ways to combine those two disparate play styles, thereby making full use of his hybrid kit. It could be done, but sadly the community has long since stopped being willing to but any real thought into how they build their champions: they build straight AD or straight AP, without any consideration of what's best for their champion. At the same time, the dearth of hybrid items makes building hybrids that much harder (especially the lack of a hybrid penetration item). That's the hybrid problem in a nutshell. But I digress.
"AP/AD" are not gameplay identities. AP sion's identity could have been summed up as "Reliable targeted stun with additional magic burst" which is not really acceptable as your core identity in today's LoL roster. AD Sion could have been summed up "Crazy lifesteal melee with a targeted stun to close on you" which also doesn't interact in ways we are comfortable with. If I say "AP mage with a targeted CC," is old Sion the only champion that comes to mind? Does he do unique interesting things that other champions can't do? Does a game with Sion in it change the way you play/think about the game (playing with or against) in interesting and deep ways that that cause you to make decisions? We didn't feel that the very simple and shallow gameplay "identities" of previous Sion held up to the bar that we think makes a champion compelling. Being a Hybrid isn't a gameplay identity either by the way. "I do some physical damage and some magic damage" isn't a compelling gameplay identity. "Your resist item buys are slightly less efficient against me" is not a fun or interesting strength to have and doesn't present the enemy with any compelling choices. Chances are, they will buy more of whatever resist they need for the rest of your team. (Not saying champions can't deal both magic/physical damage in the context of a greater kit, but the idea of a 50/50 hybrid is itself not a standalone gameplay identity).
: One of the most glaring oversights of Riot
10/10 would get trolled again
darkdill (NA)
: Definitely would like her heal range to be buffed a bit. It is so frustrating trying to keep up in a chase even if you get a lot of bonus MS. Changing the Q cast paradigm would also make a lot of sense, but increasing her E's cooldown would require you to buff it in some way.
Gonna try some stuff on PBE. Anyone reading this who loves (or hates!) Soraka please jump on if you have an account and post some feedback! Just going to test buffed heal range and fixed travel time on Q for now.
: Hey Vesh, Having played about 35 games as support Soraka post-rework, I just want to throw my 2rp into the ring. When evaluating a champion's kit, you obviously know very well that "fun" is not comparable to "damage," "mana cost," "cooldown duration," or any of the other values that dictate a champion's overall power. I assume that's a big part of why you worked on Soraka's new kit - she's substantially more *enjoyable* to play following this rework. Even if, as you say, Soraka might not need any of the aforementioned changes in terms of her in-game strength (perhaps you are already happy with her new pick/win rates), I do think that she would massively benefit from another increase to her "fun" levels. Having to move in close to an allied champion in order to transfer your health to the target creates FAR more interesting game mechanics than the previous Soraka's kit - but proves frustrating and feels anti-fun in certain circumstances. For example, I've often found that moving up to heal the frontline can actually be a greater risk than potential reward in that you can easily end up dying without accomplishing much at all, leaving your backline without a support. In Soraka's current form, the famous line displayed on the supercomputer's screen in John Badham's 1983 film, *WarGames,* sometimes proves true: "the only winning move is not to play." Therefore, I strongly feel that you should internally test increasing the range on Soraka's W with nerfs to other areas of her kit in order to try to strike a balance between the increased range and the strength of heal. Obviously changes to range are difficult to balance in relation to other areas of a kit (like in Lucian's rework, where the reduction of his AA range was answered with too many buffs) - but I would be hard-pressed to think of a design reason to obstruct making a champion more fun to play as; because if we're not having fun, why are we playing League of Legends? Thanks for reading. Best, Earl
Hey Earl! In development I had to walk a very fine line with the W range to get the accessibility I wanted for the character while preserving functionality. Because we were introducing a true healer into League, Morello, myself, and a lot of our live designers wanted to be very careful with how safe she was allowed to be (nothing more frustrating than a safe healer). We might have pushed too far here, and another 50 range might do wonders while still keeping her vulnerable. It's a really crazy buff though, and I expect that she would need a nerf elsewhere to compensate (base stats perhaps, but still exploring all of our options). Glad you're enjoying her though! I promise I'll keep working to make her the best she can be for League (by best I mean fun... not powerful :p )
darkdill (NA)
: Small Soraka buff suggestion: Speed up the heal projectile from Starcall
I'm looking into a number of potential changes for her in the patch after this next one. The missile speed was actually put in so you could see how many hits you got on Q and then choose whether or not to heal an ally before they reached you (because they heal more when you're at lower health) as a small optimization. Also, having them move too fast would disrupt a lot of the clarity of the enemy seeing whether or not they were hit and where Soraka's healing is coming from. We could possibly speed them up some, but I'm not sure if that's the place I really would want to buff Soraka. Right now I'm primarily looking at her E cooldown (possibly raising it), her W range (possible increasing it) and her Q cast paradigm (changing it to fixed travel time instead of variable depending on distance. this would be a nerf at close range but a buff at far ranges and will also increase how understandable/usable the spell is for a number of players). All of this is tentative though, but those are the things I'm looking at primarily. She might not need any of that at all but we will be testing some changes. I'm more concerned with usability/fairness than power right now because it's hard to get a good power read with all of the preseason changes being tested right now. For instance, with the new Dragon granting increasing buffs, Soraka is naturally more powerful because she allows certain junglers to take dragon extremely early with her heals.
: Why can Soraka still heal minions?
The way I scripted the spell it will actually always prioritize champions over minions if there is one in a small radius around your cursor. If you still feel like it's happening by accident too much I can try increasing that range to be more consistent.
Zarg (NA)
: RIP Soraka. Vesh hates healers. It's not an "unhealthy" mechanic or else healers wouldn't have a place in MMO's you dumb twat. Completely removing the mana giving part just destroyed. Yeah new soraka might do well but it is *Not* Soraka. That's a new champ. Literally took Swain's stun ability and make a mutant child that is now Soraka's E, but it silences. The new healing mechanic is bullshit too, giving up your own health to give to the ADC. I understand it, but I strongly hate it. For me Soraka is just an empty shell with new spells.
I main the healer role in literally every game I play -_-. I don't hate healers, I love them. The entire reason I wanted to work on Soraka was because I wanted to make a dedicated healer work in League. Getting to "flash heal" people to full health feels incredibly strong, and I hope you will at least try her out when the patch goes live before deciding you hate her :(
kDrakari (NA)
: I thought the second part of her passive had been removed in the PBE? Did it get changed back, or was I misinformed? 'cause it seems like a pretty terrible thing to give a champion percentage reductions to armor, magic resistance AND health (from the W). But whatever I guess, glass heal cannon powers activate!
It has been. Article contained a mistake, it has since been removed.
: it is hard to wrap my head around her kit... it kind of makes sense... and yet I am at a loss with the new starcall If you were to give us an idea of what sort of diameter its area of effect had i think it would really clear a lot of confusion. her kit makes it sound like you have to hit starcall or you will kill yourself... as a skill shot it has to be possible to avoid which you touched base on. if it hits no one you are left with a quickly dwindling health pool leaving you an easy target for the enemy to kill. Her cooldowns are also confusing, if starcall is meant to help you stay alive why is its cd 10 sec while astral infusion is only 4 sec? I kind of feel like a lot more clarification is necessary, especially the numbers provided. they might be subject to change but from those I see, she can kill herself using W if her health is 6-10%, the first rank of W is pretty much more powerful than her ult with its low cooldown, and lane phase will be so one sided with how much she will heal.
It's bigger than lay waste. (about 250 instead of 200) The cooldown on Q drops with rank, so by the time you reach teamfights it's closer to 6 seconds than 10. Cooldown might go down a bit before then - like I said before there's lots of tuning to do.
: ...Soraka no longer restores mana. You're taking away the one thing that made her different from all the other healers out there! This is going to completely ruin her unique position!
That might have been the one thing that made her different in the past, but that's because we hit her healing so hard that she no longer resembled a healer. Now her unique identity is as League's best and most powerful healer.
Prami (NA)
: Thoughts. W's cooldown is too low. The armor and magic resist channeling into AP makes Galio want to cry. Soraka needs reduced healing from all sources except for what is triggered by Starfall, to prevent abuse. W doesn't need a mana cost if it's already constrained by her health. The AOE silence is a good change, but the root sounds out of character. People are going to really really miss the mana sustain, and they will resent that it's been taken away. Mana sustain is part of Soraka's character. Increase the cooldown on W, add back on temp armor, increase the health % cost, and change the % health cost to be off of current health instead of maxiumum. Put MR shredding back on Starfall & have the effects & damage decrease the further away from the center the enemy is. Change the healing off of Starcall, on W, from flat healing to health regeneration. Remove the AP clause from her passive, and replace it with a clause reducing the healing from all sources (except for Starcall + W) by 40%. Remove the root from Equinox, and replace the effect with a boon to allies standing in the AOE (How about Mana Font?). Here's a thought. Why not make her W a channel? That way the player can decide how much health they want to sacrifice for their ally.
You need to think about mana costs as gates on areas of the pattern as a whole, not individual spells. If i took off the mana cost from W, that would have to go to somewhere meaningful such as the Q. If the Q is more expensive, it punishes you for doing well in your lane and not needing to heal (you oom MUCH faster if you only need to cast Q) and then once you're OOM you can no longer contribute. Same thing goes with E. If E (which is an occasional cast) had to eat these costs, it would be so high that you could only cast it at like 40% mana and that would not be a very fun or reliable emergency spell. Also why does it make Galio cry? She -converts- it, not gains bonus. She gets 80% of the value of armor and MR but gets the other 20% as AP.
: It seems like Starcall should heal soraka more if she hits an enemy in the sweet spot as well. this would allow her to get back to healing quicker and separate the "Good" and the "Great" Sorakas.
This used to be the case, but alongside the missing health multiplier (which was the more important of the two) it was too much math to understand what a good heal looked like. It also created a weird incentive where sometimes it was better to sweet spot and sometimes it was better to hit multiple targets. Optimization is a good thing to master, but when the choices are so hard to math out that you need a calculator, something has to change.
: I definitely get what you're going for, but it's **critical** for supports to be able to provide vision for their team, and most importantly, to deny vision to the enemy. She can't have a bodyguard with her at all times, and there really aren't movespeed options for supports other than Mobility Boots, Twin Shadows and Ardent Censer. And even then, most junglers can easily outrun a Soraka (particularly if they hit her once and disable the Mobility boots effect) and take her out. This is so critical that she may not see *any* play at professional levels simply due to how crucial vision control is in the game. I notice you say "heavy movement speed builds", but I fail to see exactly is a "heavy movement speed build" for a support. Mobility Boots with Alacrity and Ardent Censer? Maybe Twin Shadows? Maybe trading Mobi boots for Boots of Swiftness instead? It's not like she can buy a Zephyr, or Lichbane, or a Ghostblade, or a Zeal item, or rely on her Talisman when it's on such a long cooldown. The problem with building MS on Soraka is that she gets absolutely nothing from it. If she ever needs to go somewhere right quick, her passive takes care of that. If she can't make it on time, she has her ult. Soraka can't build enough MS to escape a Master Yi/Rengar/Kha'Zix/Kassadin/Olaf/Warwick/Vayne/etc, since they have specific tools to chase down targets within normal movespeed parametres, so every time she wants to ward, she might need to blow her Talisman just to get away safely, which keeps her from using such a useful active for a good long while. And the main problem is that, as a support, she's not necessarily top tier? If Morgana or Braum had to do this, it would make sense, since their laning and teamfighting presence is extreme and unsafe warding would be a small price to pay, but they both have plenty of ways to escape anything they encounter. I feel that Soraka needs some form of roaming reliability. Maybe increase her base movespeed to something like 345-350? Or give her some sort of return for building movespeed, like an addition to her passive (referring to her own salvation) that increases her movespeed by a percentage when facing away from enemies?
Soraka has tools to escape, although they aren't quite as reliable as, say, Morgana. Q has a slow if placed correctly and E is a huge silence zone with a snare at the end that you can place literally anywhere. So if I'm clearing a ward as Soraka, I can put the zone under myself and run away and the enemy can't chase me.
: I agree here. Having both costs is nonsensical. Either the price is health or it is mana, but not both.
Honestly, it's only nonsensical because it looks weird, and I totally agree that it does look pretty weird. I will be experimenting with tuning other costs to see if we can remove it, but honestly it will make Q feel terrible to cast and feel really limiting about how many you get. (For instance, in this tuning, I can expect you to have to spent at least a couple hundred mana on heals over the course of the lane. But imagine that was all in Q instead. Now if you are doing well and don't need to heal, you literally can't cast any more spells because your Q drains all your mana and you eventually lose the lane. Pushing more mana cost into Q actually makes it harder to keep an advantage as Soraka)
Pryotra (NA)
: So, she builds Tanky AP, and lives in the jungle. Saw this coming. If she has to spend HP, REGAURDLESS of how you tune her kit, She will build tanky. This is the rule of HP costs in league, and the only exception is when they are not getting focused, at all. Still don't believe me? Well, we know for sure she is building MR and Armor, thanks to that passive, and with a 10% HP cost, she certainly needs to be able to have enough health to be functional at <70% HP, Meaning that while the resistances will help, she still needs the raw HP to make it worth. So she will build tanky. As far as jungling, anyone can jungle, but Soraka gets extra MS for running towards low HP lanes to heal them up. You even called it astral ambulance for this very reason. Congrats, you have made the first Support that wants to jungle, in order to A) maximize her usefulness, and B)afford her items, as she certainly isn't affording Tanky AP on a support sallary. This might actually break the meta, as it allows for Full kill lanes in bot, as even without sustain Soraka can simply stay near a troubled lane to keep topping it off. As long as top pick a tank, you might even see things bot lane like double ADC bot. I congradulate you sir, you might have done what the entire balance team has been incapable of *for 4 years* in 2 different ways: you fixed Soraka, and you broke the stalest meta at the same time!
Ok, I guess I wasn't clear in the original post. When I said 20% of MR/Armor is converted, I meant literally converted. She doesn't get free AP for building resists. She loses 20% of her bonus resists and gets it in AP instead. She literally can't go in the jungle.
Rexozord (NA)
: As a current Soraka main, I have some concerns regarding the kit changes you are looking toward making here. Some of the ideas I really like (increased movement speed toward damaged allies is a very good passive, in my opinion), but some of them I don't. My primary concern is that you are removing from her kit the ability to restore mana to another champion. I don't know if this has been addressed previously, but I personally feel that being able to restore mana to allies is almost as key to her identity as restoring health. Being able to restore mana gave Soraka a reason to be picked over other sustain-based supports. It gave her a niche that no other support could fill. It made her unique. I think that trying to maintain the uniqueness of Soraka while developing her kit into something that can be balanced or adjusted without vast swings in power should be the basic goal of her rework, and I think the removal of her ability to give allies mana runs against that goal. My second concern is how reliant her kit is on being able to land, or rather, to *not miss* Starcall. Imagine the options in lane of a Soraka that, for whatever reason, misses Starcall. The enemy now has a 10 second (or whatever the CD ends up being) window during which Soraka has literally no tools with which to impact the course of the lane. If she heals her ADC, she becomes even more vulnerable. Heck, she can't even heal herself. Any opponents who want to go aggressive can target her with complete impunity. Her only option is to run away until Starcall is available again. Further, this places an insane amount of importance on Starcall's range. If its range is too long, Soraka can use it against enemies from complete or relative safety, giving very little counterplay to enemies or punishment for mispositioning the skill. On the other hand, if the range is too short, Soraka will instantly be targeted and run down every time she actually uses the skill. It's her only ability that can prevent an engagement from opposing laners, and it's her only ability that allows her to heal her ally in lane. I personally cannot imagine a duo lane scenario where the enemy lane would not want to focus down the Soraka first, not because she has a lot of threat, but because of how vulnerable she is. It seems like her kit could be usable in mid-game teamfights or siege scenarios, but I can't think of a way that she can successfully navigate the game before those things happen. The W change is not a bad idea fundamentally, but if you want her ability to heal to be predicated on her ability to manage her health, you need to actually give her tools that allow her to manage her health. One method dependent on landing an AoE ability with a moderately long cooldown on more than one enemy is not sufficient to make her interesting to play with and against. This leads me to my third point: her abilities seem to be really Feast or Famine, with the exception of Wish. Her E will either be extremely potent and very frustrating to play against, or it will be very hard to use in any meaningful way. Her Q will either allow her to safely poke and sustain at the same time while enemies have to resign themselves to dodging it every ten seconds, or it will make it very difficult for her to perform her job in lane, possibly to the extent that failing to land a Q means death or having to return to base. Her W will either allow her to rapidly undo the incoming DPS or poke from an enemy team, or it will be impossible for her to use her W at all without dying. Maybe there is nuance to this rework that I'm just not seeing, but I feel like that if this version of Soraka goes live, either people trying to play Soraka will be extremely frustrated or people trying to play against her will be frustrated. Either way, I feel like the result is worse than the current reality. (P.S. I really do like the increased MS toward wounded allies passive, though. I understand that this rework in particular is very tricky to get done right. I hope you are willing to keep trying until you get it right.)
Soraka's Q will scale down in cooldown with rank to around 6 seconds before CDR (so with CDR you are looking at 4 seconds).
: The 40% border on her ult basically means that a Morellos will make it completely useless. I do feel like at least 45% would be appropriate. One item shouldnt kill a large amount of a champs ult. Especially not one that can be bought on a utility support and/or midlane. The enemies should be forced into a trade off in order to counter the heal: You want to make Sorakas ult heal less? Get ignite instead of exhaust for example. This would allow Soraka to have a window where she can prove her skill as the core healer with the good timing between 45 and 40% hp where Morellos procs and not to get countered by one cheap and effective item. The first part of the passive feels really weak to me. It wont have no real use on lane besides running to safe your adc from base to lane. But I guess that the passive has range, so it would still be rather meh + you shouldnt leave your ADC alone anyway. Something like "Soraka regenerates HP dependent on the % of missing HP she returned to allies" would be really usefull on lane and in teamfights. Will the slow on Q scale with levels? If not, then it is way too weak. A 20% slow is literally nothing compared to pretty much every other slow ability in the game. The Q+E combo seems like Viktor W+R to me, but Viktors W allows him to actually combo it. In general this update seems really promising, but as a support main who still plays Soraka and enjoys doing so I am afraid it wont help her because of the reasons listed above. Edit: I am also missing the ability to give mana. I feel like W should give mana as well, so in seiges/fights Soraka has to decide whether she wants to give this Ziggs the mana to do this final bomb or if she wants to safe this Malphite. Soraka is the only champion that can give complete sustain on lane, its her identity and what makes her really unique after all those supports with heal and the Sona changes is the ability to sustain your laning partner with mana. If there would be a possibility for her to do so - I dont think it would be gamebreaking, but it would still make her feel close to the one Soraka we "grown up" with.
The passive is meant for her to keep up in teamfights. She's definitely weaker early than some and picks up a TON in mid game. Her curve still needs some tuning though. Q slow will scale with levels. These are just the unbalanced level 1 tooltips. As for Morello's, it's just as effective at hurting her healing as it was before. If the bonus triggered at 45%, that means that an enemy with Morello would have to drop your ally into a range of 41-45% and you'd have to hit wish before they take any other damage.
: 1. You didn't want her to be tanky so you gave her a passive that rewards tankiness. 2. Looks like she can kill herself with her W. 3. I hate the CD on her new starcall. 4. So her W costs 10% of her health on a 4 sec CD and her Q heals her for 1%-2% of her health on a 10 second CD. Does not compute. She'd basically have to hit the entire enemy team to refund the cost of casting her W once... if she doesn't build health. 5. Her E is just wrong for her... she needs poke and she's now got no bloody damage in her kit. **I rate this rework as a double facepalm.** She's got no damage, no poke, a silence that could have a longer CD than katarina's ult (if kat got a CD refresh, like on an assist), no armor bonus on her W to help an ADC in laning, a reward for building tanky after YOU GUYS AT RIOT DIDN'T WANT HER TO BE TANKY, and a heal that can kill her. Seriously. You are complaining about her being tanky one sentence and then showing how building tank will make her more powerful the next. This is one of the most two-faced announcements I've seen. You are literately giving us contradicting intentions with this and I've got no bloody idea how to respond to this. > That was the core problem I was looking to solve when I started on Soraka. After some early iterations, Morello pitched something crazy to myself and RiotScruffy. What if Soraka had to pay her own health to heal allies, but could then get it back through a separate enemy-interactive spell? I warned morello LOL PvP is not GW PvP. > Please remember that regardless of whether she is strong or weak on PBE (or even on release) that we are building a champion that we are comfortable buffing up even if she is weak, so bear with us as we get her into a good spot in the coming weeks. She's going to be a bigger liability as a support than before, particularly during laning. I don't see how any buffing is going to fix that. This rework is as bloody awful as I feared and [I want my old battlemage back.](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/YEOE97vJ-wip-champion-concept-snowraka-need-feedback-and-thoughts)
1) This actually does the opposite. This literally prevents her from having extremely efficient tank stats and with a max health cost W you can't build health for multiplicative scaling. This criticism is just factually incorrect. 2) She can't kill herself in the same way Mundo and Vlad can't. She can put herself to 1 HP though, and it's going to take good judgement to manage your health correctly. 3) Sorry. 4) The cooldown on Q ramps down, the health return scales very well with AP, and if you hit 2 targets you basically get back the cost of a single W. Being lower on health also makes this even stronger and easier to get back up. 5) Sorry that you feel this way. I believe E is one of the coolest parts of her new kit and allows her to have really cool zoning and play making ability to keep herself and her ally safe.
: Do I understand from one of your replies that the new silence has the exact same cast time as the old silence? Neither shorter nor longer than on live? Does it also have the same maxrange to silence, or is it shorder or longer than on live? Soraka's E was always my most core playmaking tool, and I'm anxious to know that it hasn't been nerfed in either way.
The range is a larger by a small amount at the moment (obviously subject to change during tuning). Most spells have a standard cast time. The ones that are longer are super noticeable (jinx W/Rocket, Ez ult, cass ult, etc).
: I really like these changes especially the silence change(silence aoe!). But I have a question, how will the Q(starcall) work? It seems like it gives Soraka a HUGE weakness. If it's like Twitch's W, it's not reliable at all from adc range. So all bot laners will have to do is keep their distance, and go in for the guaranteed kill when soraka's with low health. If she doesn't get to use her q, her health decreases a lot when she heals. If she does use her q, how close does she have to be to an enemy champion for it to be reliable?
This is going to be a tuning thing mainly. It's definitely dodgeable at max range so Soraka will have to manage her risk and health carefully to be successful.
: Her kit is kinda.. ridiculous.. but I know it's on paper and might be okay later on once it's playable. The biggest issue is that the AOE silence is going to be WAY too strong if it's anything larger than, say, Swain's Nevermove. Maybe ***very slightly*** larger. It has some ridiculous zoning power if it's any bigger than that. Personally I don't like that her passive can be used in an escape manner, either. If the idea really is that the "Soraka Ambulance" is coming to save people, it shouldn't be *also* able to be used as a "hey, as long as an ally stays in front of me I can escape you guys easily after a teamfight" thing, (which it will be, as-is). It really should be negated under certain combat conditions so as to not be usable as an escape. What about if an enemy is within X short range of raka it turns off? She shouldn't be in the thick of the battle anyway anymore, if she's caught she should be caught, not outrunning people because her "ambulance" ability isn't being used to heal, but instead run away. Furthermore, don't like the idea of Soraka refusing to heal someone late in a teamfight because she's more concerned about pretending she's gonna escape Udyr using her passive than keeping the guy carrying the teamfight alive.
She won't get the movement speed anymore once she's in heal range because of this exact reason. She's so fast with the passive up that the only person who can really outspeed her at low health is Rammus. Definitely going to be keeping an eye on the potential abuse cases and I agree it feels weird if she uses it to escape.
: On the one hand, I absolutely love the direction this new kit is going towards. I am super excited to play her and make those sweet clutch heals. On the other, I was slightly miffed at first that tanky Soraka wouldn't be a thing anymore, because I am rather tired of super-squishy caster female supports, but then I realised that you guys are rewarding Soraka for building resists, which is a form of tankiness. So I'm actually elated! That said, I am VERY concerned that Soraka will be extremely unsafe to roam with. Every squishy caster support has a mobility boost, hard cc or both, so if they come across an enemy while they're warding the river/jungle, they can either sprint away or cc the enemy and get out. Soraka is, to my knowledge, the only squishy support who doesn't have this possibility. Her Q and E seem very difficult to use as escape mechanisms, though she might be able to spam Q to slow down pursuers and heal herself as she makes it back to safety. How is Spirit Visage going to interact with Soraka? Will it increase the self-heal on her Q? If so, I feel it might be one her core items, since it also gives her MR, which she can turn into AP.
She is definitely very vulnerable alone. Moreso than any other champion IMO. Visage will increase her self heals, but the health it gives will also increase her cost on W. Still a decent option, but I personally think heavy movement speed builds will end up being the most powerful on her.
Aamano (NA)
: So will Soraka have new model animations, or will her body move the same just with new vfx / sfx
Just new VFX, although I believe I've convinced GrumpyMonkey to update her color to be more purple like the splash art.
: Oh one question. Am I still going to be able to accidentally heal a minion and let my ADC die? It says **ally** instead of **friendly unit** so I think you've removed that, but I want to be sure.
Tooltips aren't final wording - I need to do a pass on them. You can heal minions (so you can heal tibbers for instance if he's tanking a tower) but I am doing some under-the-hood work to prioritize nearby champions who are injured instead of minions. So if you misclick on a nearby minion, the target will be overridden to a hurt ally if they are within a reasonable distance.
Traxicus (NA)
: I like it a lot, Vesh! A few questions though.. 1) What's the plan for counterplay on the new E? I hope it's not an instantly-cast silence AoE, that would be kind of really overpowered... I assume there's a delay before it appears. Also, how big is it? 2) Is Soraka completely losing her ally mana restoration? I always thought that being able to completely refill her allies was part of her identity. I can't think of a place for it on her current kit, but I'd miss it a lot. 3) Does Soraka get an indication of which allies are below 40% health? Since it seems there's a sharp spike in her effectiveness past that threshold, I'd hope it's not up to the player to calculate where 40% of their health would be. *Edit: 4) An aesthetic concern about the new Starcall: to differentiate it from other, similar abilities (Xerath W, Veigar W, Leona R), instead of being a meteor or whatever, can it retain its visual of "small star pieces raining on individual champions", just moved to a ground-targeted AoE after a delay? So basically any champ or minion standing in the spot after the delay would get hit by the same effect as it is on live? I really think that visual is core for her. Pretty sweet ideas here though. I really like how unique this makes Soraka, she always felt rather bland, even for someone with such a big impact.
1) It has our standard cast time, but otherwise appears immediately aftewards. It doesn't slow or anything, so you can simply walk out of it fairly easily. It's tuned so that any champion without boots can escape at regular speed. 2) Yes, I'm sorry to say. I tried a few iterations where the zone gave mana to allies as well but it felt really bad and like the primary effect of the spell was "wasted." It was also eating up a lot of her power budget and we decided to sacrifice it in favor of stronger healing and playmaking. I really wish we could have found a place for it, but it just didn't fit with her new kit. 3) Yes. It's a very prounounced self-only particle that plays over the heads of the allies. She also gets special arrows pointing her in the direciton of wounded allies (since she gets movement speed along that vector). 4) It's a star she calls down from the sky at an angle so it retains its missile nature but is still reminiscent of a star coming down and bashing you on the head. I think you guys will like it. In general the new particle effects are WAY more astral in theme. We definitely took it to heart when people were excited about the idea of constellations too!
Aamano (NA)
: it seems a little odd to have a Mana and an HP cost on an ability wouldn't the 10% HP cost be justified on it's own?
It is a bit odd, but E is such an occasional cast that for her to have mana as a meaningful gate her Q would need to be absurdly expensive. I'll be watching the cost closely.
: SO her W costs 10% of Max Health and she can cast it below 10%. Does this mean that when Soraka is between 5-10% Health her W will kill her? Am I missing something?
The cost will only bring her to 1 if she has between 5-10%. The idea though is that Soraka can't spam heal at 1 health and needs to at least have a portion of the cost. It felt really bad to be locked out at 9% though. The 5% number might change depending on how low we can get without it feeling abusive.
  Rioter Comments
: @Vesh @Morello - A plea for a Band-Aid fix: Please don't leave waiting any more years!
Diana is a difficult problem to adjust with just numbers because she is a tank burst assassin with an all-in pattern and no success case except for taking a guy 100 to 0. As far as any potential gameplay balance updates, that's up to our Core Gameplay team who handles patch to patch balance changes. We actually had a really passionate producer who loves Diana who did some experimenting during our latest Thunderdome (sorta like a hackathon where you can work on anything you want) and he had some cool ideas. Diana is definitely on the board for changes, and it seems from the many threads like this that have been made in the past that people are fairly opposed to a bruiser direction. The key will be pushing her more towards the light fighter/assassin pattern in *healthy* ways which means not just going Q->R->R and mudering a guy.
: Let's talk about Soraka
I'll be making a thread like this when I'm ready to talk about Soraka in depth. Right now I'm just experimenting with crazy ideas for how to solve some of her core issues. If any of it sticks I'll iterate more in that direction and let you guys know what types of solutions we're confident about.
: [skin idea] Sakura Soraka
PLS PLS PLS. i just got back from japan and our hanami was by far my favorite part of the trip. it was so beautiful.
: No, I don't think she's a damage sponge. She's a healer and preventer of damage as far as her W goes instead of soaking it up for someone else. You'd need the take an ally's damage ability to be put on a true tank and not a healer/mage.
I tend to agree with you here. Taking damage for allies is much more of a tank/protector thing to do. Plus Braum just does this in a better and more interactive way.
: An idea for Soraka's Astral Blessing.
My initial thoughts on this ability is that it would cause some weird decision making when it came to trades and positioning. With the bursty nature of bot lane right now, I don't want to accidentally incentivize Soraka players to drop their health to really low levels and end up dying/feeding when they are just trying to do what the kit tells them to do. This style of ability might also be hard for the player to understand when they have done a successful choice/cast. There are other ways that solve the sustain problem besides shifting health from one champion to another (ways to make the W just straight up better in combat and weaker in the sustain case). That said, the idea of health sharing/selflessness is cool. I thought about trying out a damage link tether for awhile that shares damage the ally takes and gives some of it to Soraka. Not sure if she's the right character for this kind of ability though.
jtance (NA)
: I can definitely see trolls being an issue. I just think it provides the enemy team with a window of opportunity to say "There's a heal, go now!" So now instead of seeing a heal and immediately backing off, the enemy team/lane has to weigh their options and make a quick decision on whether or not its beneficial to go in. Definitely a backwards concept, but one that would encourage the enemy team to interact, rather than trying to keep away and powerfarm the lane. // So I've thought this idea out a little longer and I think it would look a something a little like this: Q and R remain the same. W heals for x amount and also decreases armor or mr by .1x for 2-3 seconds (Numbers are arbitrary, just an idea) E functions as it does currently while also granting .1x armor/mr to allies Casting W now gives the enemy team an opportunity it jump in and take advantage for a small amount of time. When the enemy team does jump in, E either removes the debuff and provides enough extra mana for an ally to use an escape or it silences a high damage/high cc enemy to give your ally a longer time to get away. Now you have decisions to make as Soraka: Do you heal an ally while E is on cooldown? Do you silence an enemy or buff an ally and hope they can escape by themself? The debuff on W isn't large/long enough to outright kill a teammate but does give a small power spike to enemies who are aware enough to take advantage of it (not everyone will be) Furthermore, Soraka becomes more of a "dedicated" healer. W is no longer a cast and forget type of spell. You have to spend 2-3 more seconds focused on (dedicated to, if you will) that ally to make sure they escape the fight with their life. As for trolls, there isn't really much you can do about them. However, they will be in the game regardless of the circumstances and usually find a way to screw over their own team. Trundle and Anivia both have spells that could be used to troll their own teams but they aren't really ever used that way. Sorry for the wall of text. Just fleshing out my thinking a little bit tl dr: An ally debuff is weird but may create the counter play to a strong heal spell
It's not about trolls, this is just unsatisfying for both players and also doesn't solve the problem. If you had this ability, what would your optimal use case be? Use your heal out of combat on an ally under the tower until the buff wears off. This promotes even less interaction and would just feel bad for both players.
: I recall Riot stating somewhere that Wish is in a good place because it generally requires map awareness, and due to it's high cooldown is used more in clutch situations where a teammate is about to die. It really highlights the Save-A-Teammate feel you should enjoy when playing a healer.
Wish is a great spell. Wouldn't change it unless it was getting some new interaction, but in general it's already awesome.
: > Healing is negative damage, so the same mechanics that mitigate the negative effects of burst damage can also be applied to healing. Is this a valid way to look at heals? So like could there be a distinction between "fighter-healer" who scales up over drawn out fights and "burst-healer" who turns a fight in a quicker moment? Of course, the current health bar UI doesn't communicate regen in a satisfying way, so that's a much harder archetype to fill. I guess what I'm getting at is that if I were to try to build Soraka without scaling her healing abilities, I'd want to build her as a tank, where as someone like Sona or Nami would be more a mage build. Does that even make any sense?
In both cases, the real question to ask is "where can we get gameplay out of heals?" Both a sustained healer and a burst healer fill different functions, but what we really need is a way to give heals gameplay. Soraka's current W does this to some degree because it grants massive amounts of armor which is only useful in combat but also causes the enemy to re-evaluate their targeting decisions. Unfortunately, for the armor to be powerful enough to matter, we had to take away raw healing power. I believe that players who want to play the healer character probably want big heals. The problem I'm solving now is how to give them the big heal moments in a way that causes interaction with the enemy.
: I think this looks pretty cool. It changes the question from "who to heal?" to "how to heal more?" and in a single-target sort of way. I think that's actually even more in line with the medic archetype. Some other ways to have healing amp in gameplay might be: * anti-grievous wound AoE (while standing in this area, champions are healed for more) * healing amp AoE (while standing in this area, champions heal others for more) * other application methods of heal stacks * heal resets or cd reductions (heal cc'd ally -> cd reduction, Astral Blessing on live, etc.) * ramping healing (like vlad's Tides of Blood stacks) Also, I'm curious what your previous iteration looked like. Mind posting it?
His previous iteration had her passive giving her increased regen to allies as Soraka casted. Regen auras aren't really appreciable either, but the idea of selfish team power over negating enemy power was sound. Another approach is just to allow Soraka herself to scale up by saying something like "every spell that hits a champion grants Soraka X bonus AP for Y seconds, this buff stacks up to Z times." Then both her heals and damage become more threatening in a way the Soraka player can personally appreciate. This is more of a tank pattern, but I could see a world in which Soraka has a passive similar to this.
: Is being passive really that bad? I understand it's frustrating to be unable to interact with your opponent without having whatever you just did immediately erased, but I'm not sure the 'welp I got hit by one ability, better hope my flash is up or I'm dead!' that bot lane is right now is much better.
In general having a character that is most successful by being "passive" doesn't promote any real gameplay. Interesting multiplayer gameplay is the result of meaningful interactions between players.
: What about giving W another use besides healing?
We could do this, but if the goal is to preserve Soraka as our true "healer" champion then this won't work because we'd have to take away power from the heals to accomplish this in a satisfactory way.
: Starcall is a problem then, so how about changing it so it's similar to Luna's Lucent Beam except that it doesn't lock on and has a similar target size as a Maokai Sapling without as much range? Can't think of another example atm. I don't play Soraka much, but I can say mashing Q nonstop isn't exactly the most engaging thing in the world. EDIT: I'm not saying just ship that either, if that got changed then I'm sure a slew of other changes would be required. I'm just suggesting a change that might possibly be a step in the right direction.
One thing I would like to maintain is the overall mechanical simplicity of the character. If I can find cool mastery points that doesn't make her targeting paradigms more complex then I would prefer those type of solutions. Not sure if this will be possible, but I think starcall can maintain its auto-target provided that it creates followup gameplay that *does* have interaction.
: SSS Soraka, Supports, and Sustain
This is a really really well done analysis. Like seriously. It's true that a dedicated heal spell cannot really be interactive. However, maybe there is some cool space to make a heal that is somehow enemy-interactive. Nami's does this to some degree, and I tend to think it's one of the better designed heals in our game. I actually think your older idea for her passive had a better direction. Damage reduction feels really shitty for everyone involved and is incredibly powerful for how unappreciated it is. In general we want to create interactive gameplay *patterns*. It's acceptable for a single spell to have little to no interaction provided it is a part of an interactive pattern. Currently Soraka's W is not this. I'm working on a couple of different pattern directions currently and have tried a few others that have failed. Your goals for starcall being important to the overall pattern are good, but also remember that starcall by itself has low overall gameplay/counterplay. There might be something cool we can add to the rest of the pattern that makes a simple heal an integral part of interacting with enemies. Gonna test some stuff today and if any of it shapes up to be promising I'll share some of the results!
Show more


Level 30 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion