Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: >Yeah, that was basically the main point. Stopwatch just doesn't feel fun to fight against at all. You know what's funny? When people actually wanted Zhonya's effect to be spread out to more classes and not just mages so Riot makes it in a form of a mastery (one time activation, doesn't build into anything other then Zhonya's), everyone takes it and then Riot gets the flack for spreading it out to multiple classes, which was originally our idea in the first place.
> [{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=oA7EoIrf,comment-id=000f000100000000,timestamp=2018-12-22T12:22:29.295+0000) > > You know what's funny? > When people actually wanted Zhonya's effect to be spread out to more classes and not just mages so Riot makes it in a form of a mastery (one time activation, doesn't build into anything other then Zhonya's), everyone takes it and then Riot gets the flack for spreading it out to multiple classes, which was originally our idea in the first place. Which people? I certainly wasn't clamoring for it to be spread out to more classes. AP champions need it because it gives them time for cooldowns. AD champions not so much.
Fajerk (EUW)
: Tbh as much as hexdrinker seems weird, that PD iteration is super nice considering it gives shield effective against _any damage_. Sort of ADC version of steraks. It is pretty much item that ADC lack right now. I would be down for making hexdrinker shit if it gives good PD.
> [{quoted}](name=Fajerk,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=oA7EoIrf,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2018-12-22T00:40:19.336+0000) > > Tbh as much as hexdrinker seems weird, that PD iteration is super nice considering it gives shield effective against _any damage_. Sort of ADC version of steraks. You mean the item that they made not effective on ranged champions because them getting a shield was cancer? And now get a shield *and* an MS buff, just to make extra sure they don't get punished for mistakes?
: The True Skin Shaco Needs
CIayman (NA)
: Picking a garbage champion just because you think it's cute and like its voice isn't nice
> [{quoted}](name=CIayman,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=9dvNbPm7,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-10-05T21:59:16.300+0000) > > Picking a garbage champion just because you think it's cute and like its voice isn't nice Lux is garbage? Have you tried playing against Lux as a melee jungler? Few things are more frustrating.
Stratixx (NA)
: Unbalanced skins in gameplay
I love how the Lux skins in particular have effects that are basically invisible but they've long-since standardized Shaco's skins to make sure the puff of smoke is highly visible. But Lux E? Nah fuck you just l2p noob.
wc415 (NA)
: Quality of life change: Mandatory default smite for jungle roles
Or, we could just _gasp_ save summoner spells last used on each champion like people have been asking for for years?
: Intent is niche on some ADCs and some assassins. It's tunable towards ADCs via pushing the gold value into the second passive or amplifying repeatability of first passive, tunable towards Assassins via pushing gold into AD or simply making it cheaper. We're expecting at least one outlier user from both classes initially (Jhin, Rengar, and I guess Quinn is both right now?), but believe that they can be balanced. We do have a nuclear option if they can't, though - locking out Duskblade procs from working on crits (or otherwise preventing you from using both at once).
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qw8ENzEo,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2018-05-02T22:05:23.952+0000) > > Intent is niche on some ADCs and some assassins. It's tunable towards ADCs via pushing the gold value into the second passive or amplifying repeatability of first passive, tunable towards Assassins via pushing gold into AD or simply making it cheaper. > > We're expecting at least one outlier user from both classes initially (Jhin, Rengar, and I guess Quinn is both right now?), but believe that they can be balanced. We do have a nuclear option if they can't, though - locking out Duskblade procs from working on crits (or otherwise preventing you from using both at once). Was your intent to make Graves completely broken? Because if it wasn't, you failed.
: > [{quoted}](name=VexingRaven,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0Aq6EreA,comment-id=000a000000010000,timestamp=2018-09-06T04:43:38.359+0000) > > OK Grandpa. I actually am one, thanks.
> [{quoted}](name=Cavesloth,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0Aq6EreA,comment-id=000a0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-09-06T19:30:34.843+0000) > > I actually am one, thanks. Perfect. Then you should know it was _your_ generation that started the participation trophy stuff, so the irony of you complaining about it should not be lost on you.
: > [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0Aq6EreA,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-09-05T16:41:35.304+0000) > > Then that is their issue and they need to be more confident. There are some men who dont feel comfortable speaking up in a group. We dont molly coddle them. > > They didn't need an event for them. As I said, I'd they arent comfortable with the opposite sex at a job searching age, they are not mentally stable or mature enough to be searching for a job. what the hell do they expect to happen when they get a job at riot? they'll be expected to speak in rooms full of men there; just because they were hired through a woman only event doesn't mean, magically, on their first day there will be no men. To treat them as though the work place is going to just a bubble of safety and protection is disingenuous. Triple points for using Molly coddle. Well put. Its just like what they are doing to kids nowadays, with participation trophies and safe spaces, we're making an entire generation of sissies completely unprepared for the real world. You want something in the world, be it a job or w/e, be excellent and show others you've EARNED IT.
> [{quoted}](name=Cavesloth,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0Aq6EreA,comment-id=000a00000001,timestamp=2018-09-05T16:54:47.945+0000) > > Participation trophy memes OK Grandpa.
: > [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0Aq6EreA,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-09-05T16:41:35.304+0000) > > Then that is their issue and they need to be more confident. There are some men who dont feel comfortable speaking up in a group. We dont molly coddle them. > > They didn't need an event for them. As I said, I'd they arent comfortable with the opposite sex at a job searching age, they are not mentally stable or mature enough to be searching for a job. what the hell do they expect to happen when they get a job at riot? they'll be expected to speak in rooms full of men there; just because they were hired through a woman only event doesn't mean, magically, on their first day there will be no men. To treat them as though the work place is going to just a bubble of safety and protection is disingenuous. So coming off the heels of more than a few allegations of sexual harassment, sexism, and even sexual assault, you expect women to rush to Riot-sponsored recruiting events? An event like this would be needed to begin to undo some of the damage of the unveiling of what is going on behind the scenes.
> [{quoted}](name=Dancing Foxx,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0Aq6EreA,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2018-09-05T16:43:50.059+0000) > > So coming off the heels of more than a few allegations of sexual harassment, sexism, and even sexual assault, you expect women to rush to Riot-sponsored recruiting events? An event like this would be needed to begin to undo some of the damage of the unveiling of what is going on behind the scenes. But this _is_/_was_ a riot-sponsored recruiting event. What point are you trying to make?
5050BS (NA)
: They think that viewership is down because the matches are boring. Reality is that viewership is down because the game is shit compared to what it use to be.
> [{quoted}](name=XXXMurderPenguin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w2ioFpZU,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-09-05T00:06:59.144+0000) > > They think that viewership is down because the matches are boring. Reality is that viewership is down because the game is shit compared to what it use to be. Viewership is down because if I want to watch one-shots I can just go spectate any random game. I used to watch worlds for the drawn-out careful fights and the coordinate macro which was totally different than anything I ever had a hope of seeing in my own games. But that's mostly gone since it's just a one-shot fest.
Barcid (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=VexingRaven,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=M9B0yZFE,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-09-05T02:33:40.377+0000) > > Regarding the Reddit thread, is it possible the worst of it has since been deleted? The reddit thread that the first thread of Slack messages was addressing was the thread responding to (or more pointing out) D. Klein's behavior. The original thread was deleted (but can still be found [right myere](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/9c6f9h/daniel_z_klein_is_calling_the_league_community/) if you want to skim that) which yes, had more toxicity than the original thread itself. This was the point where D. Klein graced everyone with his presence on reddit itself, and you can actually find that comment. It is _very_ important to note that **the reddit thread mentioned in the first thread of Slack messages came after D. Klein's own slew of hateful and immature tweets. D. Klein did in fact respond solely to the reddit post I specified in the original text above.** Evidence to this is that D. Klein **directly links to the "PSA: Room 613 will only allow females and non-binary until 2:30" right before he sets off into his twitter rant.** Meanwhile, the reddit post that I linked right here shows that **D. Klein's now-infamous "sea lion" line is literally the opening comment on the new thread, meaning all toxicity from Klein was made prior. D. Klein was in all practicality entirely unprovoked in his asinine response prior to the thread being made on him specifically.** This is the reddit thread mentioned in the second slew of Slack messages above. As you can see, that reddit page is still entirely accessible and, were something deleted after a certain amount of time had passed, it would actually show up on the Reddit record. So astronomical odds are, there isn't actually any toxic shit whatsoever besides some of the much lower comments, and even most of those are benign - D. Klein is quite literally blowing smoke and most likely became so insanely triggered by somebody disagreeing with him that he flew to rage on Twitter. So just so we have the record 100% straight on this - and Riot will have to deal with this fact - **D. Klein was in fact the leading attribute of toxicity in the entirety of this, not the community nor the redditors.**
> [{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=M9B0yZFE,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-09-05T03:34:30.220+0000) > > The reddit thread that the first thread of Slack messages was addressing was the thread responding to (or more pointing out) D. Klein's behavior. The original thread was deleted (but can still be found [right myere](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/9c6f9h/daniel_z_klein_is_calling_the_league_community/) if you want to skim that) which yes, had more toxicity than the original thread itself. This was the point where D. Klein graced everyone with his presence on reddit itself, and you can actually find that comment. > > It is _very_ important to note that **the reddit thread mentioned in the first thread of Slack messages came after D. Klein's own slew of hateful and immature tweets. D. Klein did in fact respond solely to the reddit post I specified in the original text above.** Evidence to this is that D. Klein **directly links to the "PSA: Room 613 will only allow females and non-binary until 2:30" right before he sets off into his twitter rant.** > > Meanwhile, the reddit post that I linked right here shows that **D. Klein's now-infamous "sea lion" line is literally the opening comment on the new thread, meaning all toxicity from Klein was made prior. D. Klein was in all practicality entirely unprovoked in his asinine response prior to the thread being made on him specifically.** This is the reddit thread mentioned in the second slew of Slack messages above. As you can see, that reddit page is still entirely accessible and, were something deleted after a certain amount of time had passed, it would actually show up on the Reddit record. So astronomical odds are, there isn't actually any toxic shit whatsoever besides some of the much lower comments, and even most of those are benign - D. Klein is quite literally blowing smoke and most likely became so insanely triggered by somebody disagreeing with him that he flew to rage on Twitter. > > So just so we have the record 100% straight on this - and Riot will have to deal with this fact - **D. Klein was in fact the leading attribute of toxicity in the entirety of this, not the community nor the redditors.** Got it, thanks for the timeline! Wasn't sure the exact sequence of events.
Barcid (NA)
: Riot’s on damage control
Regarding the Reddit thread, is it possible the worst of it has since been deleted?
: And we can stop playing/buying RP/watch LCS.
> [{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TEw405i6,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-09-03T18:20:37.047+0000) > > And we can stop playing/buying RP/watch LCS. I haven't bought RP since they gutted the value of skin shards immediately after I spend $30 on legacy orbs. Fuck that shit and this company.
: Megling genocide never forget 1000 rp never forget Riot Pax 2018 never forget
> [{quoted}](name=The Soulforged,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TEw405i6,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-09-03T18:20:35.113+0000) > > Megling genocide never forget > 1000 rp never forget I forgot about these 2, can you remind me?
: you are abusing shaco for elo akali top is more cancer than akali mid
> [{quoted}](name=Daze Clover,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w48cEd52,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-09-03T04:55:10.733+0000) > > you are abusing shaco for elo > > akali top is more cancer than akali mid I ain't abusing shit. I've been playing Shaco for years, like most of the people "abusing" him for elo.
: Why does Zoe gets an actual update to her annoyance in-lane, but Yasuo doesn't?
It's not just lane that makes Yasuo annoying. It's the fact that he can build first item shiv to make his already high base MS even higher, and can dash up an entire wave 1-hitting the entire thing then zoom off to jungle or another lane and do the same thing, while his opponents are still killing the wave.
: Jesus Nunu is going to get annihilated because of Pro-play, he has everything a Pro could want
That's what happens when you make a champion overloaded as fuck, tbh.
: I build hexdrinker, ninja tabi and oracle, but akali still can not be dueled in the early/mid game.
Dude I got first blooded from ~60% hp and ~800 units away by an Akali... Who started Doran's Shield (and had not backed yet, and we were both level 4). And I still died almost instantly. Are you kidding me?
: Out of all the matches that had a scoreline like that, how many have you won? I'd wager it would look something like 1 in 30. A 1 in 30 chance of winning is not worth the waste of time.
> [{quoted}](name=LetMeCarry1983,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oO77ANAr,comment-id=00210000,timestamp=2018-09-01T17:23:20.946+0000) > > Out of all the matches that had a scoreline like that, how many have you won? I'd wager it would look something like 1 in 30. A 1 in 30 chance of winning is not worth the waste of time. In you're 4/19 how much longer will the game really last? I'll take an extra couple of minutes in a losing game for the chance to eek out a win.
: Except you don't. If you're looking for temporary appeal, go ahead. If you're looking for *long term staying power* like Riot is, you don't look at what reels in the immediate hype. You look at what sustains your scene for the long run. Balancing around casuals isn't how you do that. Period. There's PLENTY of competitive games to choose from as examples in this regard. Am I saying "forsake silver players"? No, no one is. Still, balancing around low elo should be done relatively sparingly. Low elo players don't have a sense of what's ACTUALLY balanced.
> [{quoted}](name=chipndip1,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=3LfNLdMW,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2018-08-28T18:44:57.017+0000) > > Except you don't. > > If you're looking for temporary appeal, go ahead. TIL Dota has "Temporary appeal".
: I really appreciate your bravery in posting an unpopular topic, but I have to disagree with aspects of your analysis. 1) You state that each champion has clear strengths and weaknesses. _Clear_ strengths and weaknesses are fine. _Polarizing_ strengths and weaknesses are when we get into trouble. Let's imagine, for instance, a champion who could passively ignore all ranged auto attacks, but took double damage from melee auto attacks. You can see the problem, right? They would walk into lane VS a quinn and utterly anhilate her with little counterplay. Likewise, they would walk into lane VS jax and get creamed. This is an example of when the strengths and weaknesses go too far, to the point where they are toxic because you're either stomping or getting stomped. CT kits are in danger of this. Take Yasuo (the poster boy). His wind wall is frankly a polarizing strength. Utterly useless against melees, but able to potentially negate almost all of the power of a ranged kit. It blocks several ultimates and fight-defining skills with relative ease from the yasuo player and makes it a game of "yasuo hard-counters XXX" or "Yasuo gets wiped by XXX". His E is in danger of being the same; it makes him capable of dodging just about any skill shot, but has little to no power vs people with targetted gap closers, so champs like Wukong and Jax will wreck Yasuo, while champs like brand or Syndra will really struggle. 2) It is unfair to say that Zoe doesn't have escapes or self-peel. A free movespeed boost tacked onto every summoner spell, plus the potential to always have a summoner spell available from the large minions is reasonable self-peel, and far more than the likes of brand or velkoz. In my honest opinion, Zoe is fine except for her W. There are a number of issues with it: -Far too reliant on RNG (what the minion drops) -far too much power is shoved into a 1 point skill (potential for free ignites/heals/flashes, garunteed free speed boosts and damage on every single summoner spell -Invalidates the other aspects of her kit (needing to land her skill shots to work). You can find several videos of Zoe killing people full/0 with just her passive and her W, because in the right circumstances it just gives too much power. 3) Much of the complaint against CT champs is the hyper-mobility, which I honestly can see. If you think about it: -Akali has 2 dashes in her ult, and a dash on her W + mini dash even if it misses -Yasuo has a no cd dash on his E -Kalista (yeah, let's just not even talk about her) -Zoe becomes hyper mobile in teamfights with summoner spells and the passive movespeed, plus the portal jumping all around -Thresh offers a gap closer as a support (not a common thing back then, only Alistar had one) and a free team-mate dash, which is unheard of and the source of almost all frustration on Thresh's kit People complain about his kits because they offer more functionality. I don't think the solution is to make every kit overloaded in that way; it would make the game too complicated with too many confounding variables. I do agree that: 1) CT gets too much flak 2) He does have some successes (WW rework and Akali rework were great imho) 3) he introduces new ideas (sometimes successful, sometimes not so much).
> [{quoted}](name=Koechophe,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=28nNMfnH,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-09-01T05:17:28.116+0000) > > I really appreciate your bravery in posting an unpopular topic, but I have to disagree with aspects of your analysis. > > 1) You state that each champion has clear strengths and weaknesses. _Clear_ strengths and weaknesses are fine. _Polarizing_ strengths and weaknesses are when we get into trouble. > Let's imagine, for instance, a champion who could passively ignore all ranged auto attacks, but took double damage from melee auto attacks. You can see the problem, right? They would walk into lane VS a quinn and utterly anhilate her with little counterplay. Likewise, they would walk into lane VS jax and get creamed. This is an example of when the strengths and weaknesses go too far, to the point where they are toxic because you're either stomping or getting stomped. > CT kits are in danger of this. Take Yasuo (the poster boy). His wind wall is frankly a polarizing strength. Utterly useless against melees, but able to potentially negate almost all of the power of a ranged kit. It blocks several ultimates and fight-defining skills with relative ease from the yasuo player and makes it a game of "yasuo hard-counters XXX" or "Yasuo gets wiped by XXX". His E is in danger of being the same; it makes him capable of dodging just about any skill shot, but has little to no power vs people with targetted gap closers, so champs like Wukong and Jax will wreck Yasuo, while champs like brand or Syndra will really struggle. > > 2) It is unfair to say that Zoe doesn't have escapes or self-peel. A free movespeed boost tacked onto every summoner spell, plus the potential to always have a summoner spell available from the large minions is reasonable self-peel, and far more than the likes of brand or velkoz. In my honest opinion, Zoe is fine except for her W. There are a number of issues with it: > -Far too reliant on RNG (what the minion drops) > -far too much power is shoved into a 1 point skill (potential for free ignites/heals/flashes, garunteed free speed boosts and damage on every single summoner spell > -Invalidates the other aspects of her kit (needing to land her skill shots to work). You can find several videos of Zoe killing people full/0 with just her passive and her W, because in the right circumstances it just gives too much power. > > 3) Much of the complaint against CT champs is the hyper-mobility, which I honestly can see. If you think about it: > -Akali has 2 dashes in her ult, and a dash on her W + mini dash even if it misses > -Yasuo has a no cd dash on his E > -Kalista (yeah, let's just not even talk about her) > -Zoe becomes hyper mobile in teamfights with summoner spells and the passive movespeed, plus the portal jumping all around > -Thresh offers a gap closer as a support (not a common thing back then, only Alistar had one) and a free team-mate dash, which is unheard of and the source of almost all frustration on Thresh's kit > > People complain about his kits because they offer more functionality. I don't think the solution is to make every kit overloaded in that way; it would make the game too complicated with too many confounding variables. > > I do agree that: > 1) CT gets too much flak > 2) He does have some successes (WW rework and Akali rework were great imho) > 3) he introduces new ideas (sometimes successful, sometimes not so much). My complaint with Zoe is that I blocked her Q with a box and still got 100-0'd by her because of W's free damage, when she wasn't even fed at all and I was a level up on her.
: I mean it's hard to take "extreme shitposts" as misrepresentation when giant, sweeping, crazy changes like "Just nerf everything by 10%" gets a ton of love and approval. Every joke has a kernel of truth to it.
> [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RiTzk6ch,comment-id=000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-01T18:54:52.185+0000) > > I mean it's hard to take "extreme shitposts" as misrepresentation when giant, sweeping, crazy changes like "Just nerf everything by 10%" gets a ton of love and approval. Every joke has a kernel of truth to it. I don't think anybody wants ALL of those changes at once. They just want 1 or 2 of them. The reason they get upvotes is because people are so frustrated they want to see any change to towers.
: Preseason Development Update 1
> We’re moving the minion spawn and monster spawn times about 30-40 seconds earlier. We want to leave room for invades and other interesting early strategies, but in 95% of games players end up waiting around for 30s. In our efforts to make LoL the best game it can be for the vast majority of you, we think streamlining this phase lets you get to the fun quicker. Please don't do this. It's 30 goddamn seconds of time saved on a 30-40 minute game. If you do this you'll leave almost no room for early game strategies and invades that don't cause you to miss minions. You'll leave no room for trying to figure out what you want to buy. You'll leave no room for going back after an early trade without losing minions. You'll leave no room for (god forbid) forgetting to buy and having to go back. I don't see the benefit to this change compared to how much more rushed it will make the early game feel.
: There are 2 kind of people who deny surrender: 1. They think you can still win against great odds, 5% chances you actually are going to win. So waste of a time. 2. They want to tilt everyone else and waste not just your time but theirs as well. Early 15 minute surrender is a joke, almost never it succeed because of 4:1 vote. Whole system needs a rework to prevent these things.
> [{quoted}](name=PowerSlave993,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oO77ANAr,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2018-09-01T12:10:42.446+0000) > > There are 2 kind of people who deny surrender: > > 1. They think you can still win against great odds, 5% chances you actually are going to win. So waste of a time. > 2. They want to tilt everyone else and waste not just your time but theirs as well. > > Early 15 minute surrender is a joke, almost never it succeed because of 4:1 vote. > > Whole system needs a rework to prevent these things. I'm not going to lie, if somebody on my team is being a toxic moron and calling surrenders constantly and generally being annoying, I'll vote against their surrender vote every time. You're trying to tilt me? I'll tilt you right back. You think not being able to surrender 4/1 at 15 minutes is a bad thing? It's 15 minutes bro, you can wait 5 more minutes to surrender if it's really *that* over. Don't forget about troll 4-man premades too, if you could surrender at 15 minutes a 4-man premade could completely ruin the game for the random.
: I cannot stand this "never surrender" fucking 4 year old mentallity.
If the 22/4 Jax 1v5ing hasn't managed to win at 26 minutes, somebody is obviously doing something wrong. He should end in minutes, so at MOST you're wasting a couple minutes, boo hoo. If you don't surrender and he hasn't manage to win by the next few minutes, he's so terrible you probably shouldn't surrender because there's still a chance. There's little benefit to surrendering here, because at worst you lose a few more minutes of time, at best Jax fucks up (because he's clearly a terrible player if he hasn't won yet with that lead) and you ace them and end the game.
: Gee I wonder if this sudden change of heart has anything to do with them ~~kicking out~~ promoting our previous Mr. Lead Gamplay Design somewhere else where he can't cause any more harm. HMMM the timing is surely interesting. I wonder how many more changes we are going to get that were previously blocked by that guy because of his completly disorted vision for the game...
> [{quoted}](name=Speedweeb,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RiTzk6ch,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-09-01T01:55:52.075+0000) > > Gee I wonder if this sudden change of heart has anything to do with them ~~kicking out~~ promoting our previous Mr. Lead Gamplay Design somewhere else where he can't cause any more harm. HMMM the timing is surely interesting. I wonder how many more changes we are going to get that were previously blocked by that guy because of his completly disorted vision for the game... Wait, what did they do?
: The downvotes are from people that actually made these low effort buff tower shitposts
> [{quoted}](name=Who Fed Ru,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RiTzk6ch,comment-id=0002000000010000,timestamp=2018-09-01T17:48:09.740+0000) > > The downvotes are from people that actually made these low effort buff tower shitposts No, the downvotes are from the people that *didn't* make those shitposts annoyed at the misrepresentation of the boards opinion by combining every extreme post ever into one idea as if everybody on the boards wanted that.
Infernape (EUW)
: Well I mean they did nerf Ornn when he was the worst champion for quite a large number of patches. Pro play fucks a lot of things up for casual players. Especially if they happen to like champions that unfortunately work in competitive.
> [{quoted}](name=FurorDivinus27,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FTYBeqgb,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-09-01T00:51:17.841+0000) > > Well I mean they did nerf Ornn when he was the worst champion for quite a large number of patches. Pro play fucks a lot of things up for casual players. Especially if they happen to like champions that unfortunately work in competitive. And yet we can't nerf Corki who has been in basically every LCS game for the last 5 years. But we can nerf Sejuani because she got played well once in worlds?
La Bello (NA)
: Hecarim being weak is a good thing. His entire design is the most one-dimensional anti-fun bullshit ever made. Running at the backline abusing your MS=AD converter to just one-shot the squishiest target ad finum is not a healthy design and as of right now {{champion:240}} does a much healthier job of delivering on the "Calvary charge" fantasy. Basically Hecarim is practically the same as {{champion:62}} in practical application. Sejuani on the other hand was done wrong with her rework. Crappier Braum passive doesn't really scream "WARLORD LEADER" like was promised. I actually woudlnt be against a 5th rework or something by this point.
> [{quoted}](name=Sunibee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FTYBeqgb,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-09-01T08:06:50.040+0000) > > Hecarim being weak is a good thing. > His entire design is the most one-dimensional anti-fun bullshit ever made. > > Running at the backline abusing your MS=AD converter to just one-shot the squishiest target ad finum is not a healthy design and as of right now {{champion:240}} does a much healthier job of delivering on the "Calvary charge" fantasy. > > Basically Hecarim is practically the same as {{champion:62}} in practical application. > > Sejuani on the other hand was done wrong with her rework. Crappier Braum passive doesn't really scream "WARLORD LEADER" like was promised. > I actually woudlnt be against a 5th rework or something by this point. I actually agree, fuck Hecarim. Somebody who can one-shot you and then just waltz away faster than anyone else can kill him is absolutely terrible design and horribly unfun to play again.
: Its not a bad build actually as funny as it seems. Shaco players take it too and do really well with it.
> [{quoted}](name=Catsexualreturns,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TVEncpsp,comment-id=00010000000000000001,timestamp=2018-08-23T01:26:17.918+0000) > > Its not a bad build actually as funny as it seems. Shaco players take it too and do really well with it. What Shaco player is building {{item:3095}} lol?
CppL (EUW)
: Cause its fun to watch when he deletes a champ in 0.2s...
> [{quoted}](name=CppL,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3qdmBYWx,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-22T13:13:02.676+0000) > > Cause its fun to watch when he deletes a champ in 0.2s... I feel like people didn't see the sarcasm...
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: too much damage from runes and ignite but i have to say you did something weird instead of letting the wave crush under your tower you went to attack half hp casters for no reasons at all which made lb able to come into range for Q+W
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mEoMFkFE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-12T16:24:25.835+0000) > > too much damage from runes and ignite > > but i have to say you did something weird > instead of letting the wave crush under your tower you went to attack half hp casters for no reasons at all > > which made lb able to come into range for Q+W It might have been a mistake but I understand why... Probably didn't expect to die to a single LB rotation early game as Swain.
: The point of the Permanent ban is to have those players leave League, not come back. That some small handful of players _do_ come back does not magically mean that Riot intended to create a pseudo-Prisoner's Island in low-level games. It may be a Prisoner's Island-type deal, but it's not one that Riot wanted or intended to make. The players themselves made it that way. And, again; Permanently banning them is not meant to be some warning to reform. That's what the 10-game CR, 25-game CR, and 14-day ban are for. The permanent ban is there to tell those players to _take their business, **and** their toxicity, elsewhere._
> [{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Bz5qQa1I,comment-id=00090000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-11T22:32:51.075+0000) > > The point of the Permanent ban is to have those players leave League, not come back. That some small handful of players _do_ come back does not magically mean that Riot intended to create a pseudo-Prisoner's Island in low-level games. > > It may be a Prisoner's Island-type deal, but it's not one that Riot wanted or intended to make. The players themselves made it that way. > > And, again; Permanently banning them is not meant to be some warning to reform. That's what the 10-game CR, 25-game CR, and 14-day ban are for. The permanent ban is there to tell those players to _take their business, **and** their toxicity, elsewhere._ Well, we can talk all we want about what is intended, but what is intended is not what happens.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: except the old tribunal hasn't been a thing in a few years
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Bz5qQa1I,comment-id=00090000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-11T18:32:29.265+0000) > > except the old tribunal hasn't been a thing in a few years And you think people's attitude has changed because of it? People hate complaining more than anything.
Glaedr (NA)
: Yeah, it's pretty absurd that it went this long with minimal attempts at fixing it, but as explained by Riot in their devblog tech-debt really makes it hard to go back and fix problems like this. Nobody really knows except the people actually paid to solve these kinds of problems in Riot, but say there's around five years of various changes stacked on top of the death recap (every single new champion, ability, updates to minions, etc), then it becomes harder and harder to go back and solve the root problem. It's not like League is the only game with this problem. If you've ever played WoW you would find a plethora of bugs that have existed for many years which will likely never get fixed until they decide to make a WoW 2 or something along those lines.
> [{quoted}](name=Glaedr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XF0O01Ky,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-12T06:19:33.617+0000) > > Yeah, it's pretty absurd that it went this long with minimal attempts at fixing it, but as explained by Riot in their devblog tech-debt really makes it hard to go back and fix problems like this. Nobody really knows except the people actually paid to solve these kinds of problems in Riot, but say there's around five years of various changes stacked on top of the death recap (every single new champion, ability, updates to minions, etc), then it becomes harder and harder to go back and solve the root problem. > > It's not like League is the only game with this problem. If you've ever played WoW you would find a plethora of bugs that have existed for many years which will likely never get fixed until they decide to make a WoW 2 or something along those lines. You don't fix tech debt by ignoring it though.
: Is it just me, or has the game become RAPIDLY more unbearable than it already was
I think everybody at this point is permatilted because they're not happy with the state of the game, which of course just contributes to further toxicity and tilting. I have to try hard myself not to fall into this trap.
Zerenza (NA)
: A lot of people don't read abilities, don't worry about it, her W can still be revealed she just can't be targeted while inside of it. It's called Obscured. You can land a skilshot on something you CAN see right?
> [{quoted}](name=Zerenza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6OBkEb6u,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2018-08-11T15:32:12.421+0000) > > A lot of people don't read abilities, don't worry about it, her W can still be revealed she just can't be targeted while inside of it. It's called Obscured. You can land a skilshot on something you CAN see right? So she should be able to tower dive risk-free just because she's vulnerable to skillshots?
: > [{quoted}](name=VexingRaven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KA5VuUxw,comment-id=002400000000,timestamp=2018-08-11T05:42:26.666+0000) > > At least Cho's isn't percent HP (Unless it is and I'm oblivious?) Cho with good stacks can put 2k+ true damage enough damage to 100-0 adc isn't much worse then trying to put enough damage to put down adc below 25% hp?
> [{quoted}](name=ValiantKiller,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KA5VuUxw,comment-id=0024000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-11T07:18:26.468+0000) > > Cho with good stacks can put 2k+ true damage enough damage to 100-0 adc isn't much worse then trying to put enough damage to put down adc below 25% hp? I'm not arguing that Cho doesn't get obnoxious as hell, but that's just a simple numbers tweak. %hp true damage executes are dumb no matter what numbers you give them. Hell, executes in general can go to hell and they only contribute to the overall feeling of "whoever bursts faster wins".
: > Behaviors take a lot longer to unlearn than the relatively small time between applied bans for serious offenders of the sort you'd want to see on a prison island... And Riot's reason for being _against_ a Prisoner's Island-type deal is that lumping those players into a Prisoner's Island - with those who _also_ are toxic, whether by some short lapse or because they just straight up don't give a shit about the rules, it causes those players to take _even longer_ to unlearn those behaviors. Why does it take longer? Well, for one, having it be the "norm" for them (due to being paired with similarly toxic players) desensitizes them to it, causing them to think it's fine and normal. On top of that, _negativity feeds negativity._ Having to deal with a bunch of toxic flamers will wear at their ability to hold back, and they'll just be toxic and flame back - ultimately ruining any chance that they might have had to unlearn those exact same behaviors. > ...and you often skip tiers of punishment. The only things I've seen result in skipped punishment tiers are: - Hate speech (Racism, homophobia, disability-related insults) - Breaking the rules _during an active Chat Restriction_ (although those are exceedingly rare, and it may not be the case that they do skip tiers, but it's still worth mentioning as a possibility) - Encouraging self-harm - Death threats - Intentional Feeding/Griefing/Trolling (due to those being gameplay-related behaviors, chat restrictions wouldn't do anything) I don't imagine that skipping punishment tiers happens as often as you say. > Anyway, length of ban is completely irrelevant, since you can't expect the player's behavior to change when they aren't playing. So, the length of the ban is relevant, but the length of chat restrictions are...? That doesn't make much sense. The length of the ban is relevant. When Riot kicks you out of their game for two weeks, it should generally occur to most people that they're trying to get a point across. Two weeks is a pretty fucking long time. > Consistent, smaller punishments are far more effective if they actually want to see reform. I'd argue that harsh and firm punishments are a better method of telling people they need to reform. Smaller punishments would just get annoying, but keeping fairly lengthy, fairly impactful punishments (25 games where you can't type much, being banned for a whole fortnight) makes sure that they have some sizeable reinforcement to _not_ break those rules. > And we know they have the ability to detect minor toxicity, since they use it for their honor system shadow bans. Honor progression being slowed/halted is hardly worth considering a "ban". Even still - the minor toxicity that validates those reports _adds up_ to the actual main punishment tiers. They don't just shrug off those cases of minor toxicity and leave it to the Honor System, y'know.
> [{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Bz5qQa1I,comment-id=000900000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-11T06:37:42.501+0000) > > And Riot's reason for being _against_ a Prisoner's Island-type deal is that lumping those players into a Prisoner's Island - with those who _also_ are toxic, whether by some short lapse or because they just straight up don't give a shit about the rules, it causes those players to take _even longer_ to unlearn those behaviors. So instead we permaban them, where they then create a new account, effectively turning low level games into a prisoner's island anyway? That helps them unlearn the behaviors better?
Voldymort (EUNE)
: complaining =/= being negative
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Bz5qQa1I,comment-id=000900000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-11T07:21:20.422+0000) > > complaining =/= being negative Tell that to literally everybody up to and including those voting in the old tribunal, where bans for complaining were common because "it's annoying".
Takazaki (NA)
: why rework him? he is one of the most popular champions due to a strong identity and kit. Yasuo is toxic to the lower elo's that absolutely refuse to learn counter play, the biggest change yasuo needs is clarity to low elo players on what he can do - enemys should be able to see E cooldown on minions That right there will eliminate the blitzed feeling you get when yasuo suddenly rushes you down, which is more then halve is frustration right there
> [{quoted}](name=Takazaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fQLAqet4,comment-id=000900000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-11T09:46:30.650+0000) > > why rework him? he is one of the most popular champions due to a strong identity and kit. Why rework Shaco? He has a strong identity and kit. Oh, right, because people fucking hating playing against him. To not _not_ rework a champion because the mains like their toxic kit is stupid and has not saved anyone else from reworks. His identity is "I'm an obnoxious asshole that outclasses everybody else in every way".
Leetri (EUW)
: 9 women doesn't give birth to a baby in 1 month. Riot has stated several times that "just hiring more people" doesn't necessarily make things go faster. First of all they'd have to find engineers that accepts the job, then they have to spend half/an entire year to teach them before they're ready to work for real. And during that time they have to pull engineers from other projects to teach them, meaning things would go even slower for potentially an entire year. More engineers might need more managers, so you gotta hire and teach those as well. And if you've ever worked for a bigger company you know they're really slow to do anything because changes have to go through a lot of people (too many chefs spoil the broth, if you will). On top of all that, we don't know if it's even possible for them to expand, they could be out of office spaces in their current office.
> [{quoted}](name=Leetri,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XF0O01Ky,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2018-08-11T12:01:50.074+0000) > > 9 women doesn't give birth to a baby in 1 month. Riot has stated several times that "just hiring more people" doesn't necessarily make things go faster. > First of all they'd have to find engineers that accepts the job, then they have to spend half/an entire year to teach them before they're ready to work for real. And during that time they have to pull engineers from other projects to teach them, meaning things would go even slower for potentially an entire year. More engineers might need more managers, so you gotta hire and teach those as well. And if you've ever worked for a bigger company you know they're really slow to do anything because changes have to go through a lot of people (too many chefs spoil the broth, if you will). > On top of all that, we don't know if it's even possible for them to expand, they could be out of office spaces in their current office. But it's been _10 years_. Surely that's enough time to hire people and train them in? The solution to not having enough manpower is to get more manpower. That's really all there is to it. Yeah, training people takes manpower away from other stuff for a while, but not hiring more people will not magically fix the issue. This is what every business deals with, I don't know why game developers seem to get a pass on this from their fans.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: You can complain without being toxic tho
> [{quoted}](name=Voldymort,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Bz5qQa1I,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-11T05:51:13.017+0000) > > You can complain without being toxic tho Can you? Being negative is explicitly against the rules.
: If all you do is complain, it would take you quite a while before you actually get permanently banned. It would take a fair number of games before you reach a 10-game Chat Restriction, then a few more before a 25-game CR, then even less towards a 14-day ban, and then one last "I didn't pay attention" to push you into a permanent ban. Those three punishment tiers (or that one punishment tier, depending on the offense(s)) are the period where Riot still believes the player can reform. If you break the rules still after a 14-day ban, then they don't expect you to start following the rules any time soon. And if you happen to get to a permaban "quickly", then clearly, you're not just complaining.
> [{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Bz5qQa1I,comment-id=0009000000000001,timestamp=2018-08-11T06:05:08.785+0000) > > If all you do is complain, it would take you quite a while before you actually get permanently banned. It would take a fair number of games before you reach a 10-game Chat Restriction, then a few more before a 25-game CR, then even less towards a 14-day ban, and then one last "I didn't pay attention" to push you into a permanent ban. > > Those three punishment tiers (or that one punishment tier, depending on the offense(s)) are the period where Riot still believes the player can reform. If you break the rules still after a 14-day ban, then they don't expect you to start following the rules any time soon. > > And if you happen to get to a permaban "quickly", then clearly, you're not just complaining. Behaviors take a *lot* longer to unlearn than the relatively small time between applied bans for serious offenders of the sort you'd want to see on a prison island, and you often skip tiers of punishment. Anyway, length of ban is completely irrelevant, since you can't expect the player's behavior to change when they aren't playing. Consistent, smaller punishments are far more effective if they actually want to see reform. And we know they have the ability to detect minor toxicity, since they use it for their honor system shadow bans.
: > [{quoted}](name=VexingRaven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KA5VuUxw,comment-id=0024,timestamp=2018-08-11T04:22:54.514+0000) > > Maybe we should stop putting true damage %hp executes on champions ults? But there already many of them and some include Cho can just 100-0
> [{quoted}](name=ValiantKiller,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KA5VuUxw,comment-id=00240000,timestamp=2018-08-11T04:38:57.770+0000) > > But there already many of them and some include Cho can just 100-0 At least Cho's isn't percent HP (Unless it is and I'm oblivious?)
: [Because Riot has already decided that it wouldn't work.](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/01/ask-riot-banished-to-prisoners-island/)
> [{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Bz5qQa1I,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-08-11T04:47:04.564+0000) > > [Because Riot has already decided that it wouldn't work.](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/01/ask-riot-banished-to-prisoners-island/) >We believe in a real shot at reform for unsportsmanlike players That's cute from the company that will send you to a permaban extremely quickly just for complaining.
: I'm really tired of QSS against Urgot
Maybe we should stop putting true damage %hp executes on champions ults?
: > [{quoted}](name=VexingRaven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zqEVteXz,comment-id=0003000000050000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-10T04:27:23.801+0000) > > Akali's rework is way beyond Shaco's stealth. Like, she literally can't be targeted ever even if she stands under a tower. > > Everyone permabanned Eve because she deals a fuckton of both sustained and burst damage while having a good disengage. Shaco gets... 1 single gap closer which is both his only reliable way into and out of a fight. He also has zero means of providing any sustained damage beyond autoattacks and if you build even a single cloth armor you'll likely survive him and just win. But please tell me more about how a short stealth is SO PROBLEMATIC because bronze ADCs can't stick with their team. I just mentioned that akali's stealth is better than shaco's Q. Riot went against something they tried to get rid of because it was so toxic, MANY years before my time. They brought back an uncounterable stealth that can only really be dealt with by AOE abilities ( and that's if she stays in there) Secondly, the runes and their broken state plus lethality absurd cheapness is why shaco's winrate is the second highest in his role (albeit a tiny playrate size) Thirdly, he's problematic if anyone ever wants to get solo lane xp. You can group all you want but there are points where you can't, or, where there's a need to split focus. He can one shot most people that aren't tanks (yes I'm putting bruisers here), with Electrocute or DH, {{item:3147}} and {{summoner:14}}
> [{quoted}](name=Popperofski,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zqEVteXz,comment-id=00030000000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-10T05:10:13.743+0000) >He can one shot most people that aren't tanks (yes I'm putting bruisers here), with Electrocute or DH, {{item:3147}} and {{summoner:14}} Sure, if he uses his ult and you aren't moving so he gets the instant one-shot with both. There are a lot of assassins which are way better at actual one-shots than Shaco is. However... > Secondly, the runes and their broken state plus lethality absurd cheapness is why shaco's winrate is the second highest in his role (albeit a tiny playrate size) On this we can both agree. Most Shaco mains want to see this nerfed just as much as anyone so we can get some actual Shaco mechanics and innate damage back instead of being broken status purely off of runes and items being broken. It sucks having ALL of Shaco's abilities be totally useless 90% of the time because runes and lethality are too strong on their own. It kills off any variety at all when everybody has to be balanced around that, especially on Shaco who in the past was known for being able to make almost any build work. Shacos suffers from this more than anyone because he basically has to be balanced around the stupid ult double duskblade/sheen proc combo (which hurts his teamfighting because engaging ult first is suicide).
Takazaki (NA)
: > People being bad at a champion does not make the champion weak. which is why he has poor winrates across elos meaning regardless of player skill he still is less likely to win\ > People going out of their way to camp a champion because they hate it does not make the champion weak. no, this is called counter play. Yasuo is an extremely strong duelist who specializes on diving and weaving **FORWARD**, similar to any high damage low mobility mage, he is vulnerable to ganks > Win rate is not the end-all of balance or strength. *gasp* * low winrates across all elos * Riot specifically said that yasuo mains see lower winrates of then nearly any other champion * Has an above average core build cost so this pushes him into feast or famine territory > Heck, he's actually statistically strong bot right now. Thats due to all of the Adc's survivbility being cut down and itemization changes allow him to survive in bot lane, but yasuo has always been a thing. Also remember when sion was the #1 support statistically but a halved assed top laner? We didnt balance him around that, why would yasuo be the exception from the precedent?
> [{quoted}](name=Takazaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fQLAqet4,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-10T07:59:15.832+0000) > > which is why he has poor winrates across elos meaning regardless of player skill he still is less likely to win\ > > no, this is called counter play. Yasuo is an extremely strong duelist who specializes on diving and weaving **FORWARD**, similar to any high damage low mobility mage, he is vulnerable to ganks > > *gasp* > * low winrates across all elos > * Riot specifically said that yasuo mains see lower winrates of then nearly any other champion > * Has an above average core build cost so this pushes him into feast or famine territory > > Thats due to all of the Adc's survivbility being cut down and itemization changes allow him to survive in bot lane, but yasuo has always been a thing. > > Also remember when sion was the #1 support statistically but a halved assed top laner? We didnt balance him around that, why would yasuo be the exception from the precedent? Ok, fine. You want Yasuo buffs? Then rework him so he's not "I got 1 skill in lane, GG". Rework him so he doesn't make people want to quit every time they play against him. Yasuo is far and away too toxic to be strong and there are champions *much* more deserving of a little love than *fucking Yasuo* of all champions because he was slightly weak for 1 patch.
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VexingRaven

Level 73 (NA)
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