Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 1
Is it possible to revert Swain? The rework didn't seem to solve his lack of popularity, nor did it stay true to his themes of the Ravenous DoT mage.
: Honestly, I agree with you. Not sure how to solve systemically though.
Should it even be considered a problem? High skill cap champions have always been a part of the game.
: TLDR - rune styles wont have stats associated with them anymore like the +adaptive or +HP. We're working out how we want to offer that but it's most likely a few new slots that allow you to pick the stats you want.
The old rune system was actually really good. The only complaint against it was how expensive it became in terms of IP.
Chermorg (NA)
: What shift? If you're talking about work shifts, we're actually prohibited from using our phones and/or the work computers to do personal things such as post on the League boards during our shift. Oh, you thought I **worked** for Riot? Nope. The only people on the boards who work for Riot are those with Red names and the Riot fist next to them.
Why are you feeding the trolls by responding over and over? Isn't it your job to keep conflict at a minimum?
: Tank changes for 8.16
If you want tanks back, you have to put them into top-lane again. Tanks without the gold income (aka supports), just won't be able to do their job. Look at Cho and follow that sort of design if you wish to bring tanks back into viability. However, I would like to warn you that bringing tanks back can make the game a bit more boring to watch - which could affect your LCS viewership.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 3
Finally some thoughtful directions. Might actually start playing again.
: Can Ignite be Nerfed Already
My only problem with Ignite is that supports can take it and instantly become a threat in almost every matchup.
Vekkna (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=IcyOps,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=VA1W87yI,comment-id=0033000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-24T02:55:20.565+0000) > > AP Champions get an item which makes them invulnerable... but AD dont, why? {{item:3026}} and {{item:3157}} are analogous. The upside of the GA proc is that it's passive, longer stasis means more time for your team to cover your position, and it forces the enemy to chew through 150% of your health bar to kill you. And it's 500g cheaper than Zhonya's. The upside of Zhonya's is that it's more slot efficient and active use gets a lot of CDR from Ingenious Hunter. The active aspect is a double-edged sword, though, because you can be cc'd out of using it. Most of the times you want the active to save your life will involve cc or a chain of ccs. That said, it's much stronger when used for proactive playmaking, whereas GA is better for reactive ass-saving. > AP Champions get an item which gives %AP, but AD dont. Why? Because crit and attack speed are both % modifiers for ADs. Personally, I think that DCap should be removed or a similar item added for AD casters. An AD DCap could be accomplished via an item passive that lowers the champ's attack speed cap and sets their crit chance to 0%. Or it could have an AD multiplier that applies only to abilities that scale with bonus AD. I actually think that would be a good way to shift AD assassin power from early game to mid/late game. > AP Champions get an item which gives them perma slow on all of their spells, AD dont, why? Frozen Mallet is analogous. I can't think of an AD caster that doesn't weave autos and could make good use of an ability-only proc. What champ would make better use of that than Mallet? > MR on squishies stays at 30 whereas Armor doubles or even triples over the course of a game, again... why? I think it's because MR is cheaper to buy and there is far less magic pen in the game than armor pen + lethality. If you are saying that the resist/pen systems should be normalized, then I would agree with that. > You really sound like a broken record here. Healing items like DD, and lifesteal arent even strong rn. You clearly dont play AD champs, and dont appreciate the issues these champs face. I do play AD champs. I just happen to be fucking terrible with the ones I enjoy playing. That doesn't change the fact that I can build a DD on Illaoi, MF, or Kai'sa, and for the rest of the game I can heal up from camps and pushing out lanes without having to recall. I can build Warmog's on Poppy and heal up while walking to a side lane. If I'm a pure AP, I have to recall. There is no way around that in the item system because....reasons? > Spear of Shojin is hella expensive for the AD gives and probably wont even find a spot in a build. In terms of raw AD values on completed items, there are only three other items with a higher AD per gold. Those are DD, Rav. Hydra, and Warrior enchant, which are all 43-44g per AD. Spear and Essence Reaver are in second place at 48-49g per AD.
>Frozen Mallet is analogous. No it really isn't. >I can't think of an AD caster that doesn't weave autos and could make good use of an ability-only proc. First off, Rylais and Frozen Mallet are vastly different in terms of stat allocation. Rylais has high offensive stat and decent defensive stat whereas Frozen Mallet has a high defensive stat and a low offensive stat. For this reason alone, this item isn't purchased on any AD champion who cares about their AD ratios. Secondly, there are many AD casters who would rather just poke with abilities instead of having to go for autos all the time. E.g. Illaoi Q, Talon W + Passive, Jayce Q, Darius Q + Passive, Jarvan Q, Jhin Q + W, Lucian Q + W, Pantheon Q, and even Lee Q. So I'm sorry that you can't see it, but if such an item existed without seriously losing out of AD stats, then it might've actually saw play.
Vekkna (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=IcyOps,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=VA1W87yI,comment-id=0033000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-24T02:55:20.565+0000) > > AP Champions get an item which makes them invulnerable... but AD dont, why? {{item:3026}} and {{item:3157}} are analogous. The upside of the GA proc is that it's passive, longer stasis means more time for your team to cover your position, and it forces the enemy to chew through 150% of your health bar to kill you. And it's 500g cheaper than Zhonya's. The upside of Zhonya's is that it's more slot efficient and active use gets a lot of CDR from Ingenious Hunter. The active aspect is a double-edged sword, though, because you can be cc'd out of using it. Most of the times you want the active to save your life will involve cc or a chain of ccs. That said, it's much stronger when used for proactive playmaking, whereas GA is better for reactive ass-saving. > AP Champions get an item which gives %AP, but AD dont. Why? Because crit and attack speed are both % modifiers for ADs. Personally, I think that DCap should be removed or a similar item added for AD casters. An AD DCap could be accomplished via an item passive that lowers the champ's attack speed cap and sets their crit chance to 0%. Or it could have an AD multiplier that applies only to abilities that scale with bonus AD. I actually think that would be a good way to shift AD assassin power from early game to mid/late game. > AP Champions get an item which gives them perma slow on all of their spells, AD dont, why? Frozen Mallet is analogous. I can't think of an AD caster that doesn't weave autos and could make good use of an ability-only proc. What champ would make better use of that than Mallet? > MR on squishies stays at 30 whereas Armor doubles or even triples over the course of a game, again... why? I think it's because MR is cheaper to buy and there is far less magic pen in the game than armor pen + lethality. If you are saying that the resist/pen systems should be normalized, then I would agree with that. > You really sound like a broken record here. Healing items like DD, and lifesteal arent even strong rn. You clearly dont play AD champs, and dont appreciate the issues these champs face. I do play AD champs. I just happen to be fucking terrible with the ones I enjoy playing. That doesn't change the fact that I can build a DD on Illaoi, MF, or Kai'sa, and for the rest of the game I can heal up from camps and pushing out lanes without having to recall. I can build Warmog's on Poppy and heal up while walking to a side lane. If I'm a pure AP, I have to recall. There is no way around that in the item system because....reasons? > Spear of Shojin is hella expensive for the AD gives and probably wont even find a spot in a build. In terms of raw AD values on completed items, there are only three other items with a higher AD per gold. Those are DD, Rav. Hydra, and Warrior enchant, which are all 43-44g per AD. Spear and Essence Reaver are in second place at 48-49g per AD.
>GA and Zhonyas are analogous lol what? One provides a stasis on demand and the other is a situational revive which only procs after you die. You can choose to Zhonyas at a good time but you cant choose to die at a good time. Ingenious Hunter in 2018 omegalul. > Because crit and attack speed are both % modifiers for ADs Again what the fuck? You want me to go build crit on Zed, Talon, Renekton? > There is no way around that in the item system because....reasons? It's called niches. All champions don't have to be good at all things. Just because a certain archetype does something doesnt mean the other should do it too. I think you're just bad honestly. Your argument contributes to the homogenization of league and doesn't really add much substance. You're pretty much just crying "wahhh he gets that why I cant I get it too?!??!" even though you're holding something that no one else has. Anyways have fun in gold 5 with a sub 50% winrate.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: learn to play againts him lol. <edited by mod> I've won lane against a brand support as ASHE support. Brand lane is easy, if you know how to play against one. Dont blame a champ if you dont know how to counter it. https://matchhistory.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUN1/1987240829/220401023?tab=overview https://matchhistory.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUN1/1986843088/220401023?tab=overview
How about lets put him into the lane he's supposed to be? Aka the fckin mid lane? I vote we rip all of his base dmgs and put them all onto AP ratios.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 22
I hope you realize that the problem with Liandries isn't the strength of the item but rather its place in a build path. Most champions who want to build Liandries will often build a mana + CDR item first, and then normally straight Deathcap/Void in order to be relevant in the game. Builds that can go Liandries without severely gimping their mana/CDR are insanely powerful. I'm saying this as a Diamond player who has experimented extensively with Liandries in the past. It has the same problem as Spellbinder. They're both INSANELY strong items, it's just that the champions that want to build them NEED mana/CDR to survive OR Deathcap/Mpen is just straight up better.
Vekkna (NA)
: >1) These tools have been given to AD champs because they need them. That's a relic from a game that doesn't exist anymore. Juggernaut itemization is now a thing. ADCs with shields, i-frames, uncounterable stealth, cc, and mobility are completely normal. And when it comes to mobility creep, mages were left further behind than ADCs by a large margin. Look at Jhin versus Lux. There is no legitimate reason why Jhin should have spellvamp items and not Lux. He's faster, scales waaaay harder, has longer cc durations, and has similar ability ranges. >However, Atma and Shojin are intended to be items that let AD Fighters carry a game when they snowball, and that's not a problem AP champs ever had, because they always have the option to carry with damage builds. Look at the top 30 bans across all brackets for the past month. 19 of those are AD fighters or ADCs and 5 are supports. Only 6 are non-support APs (Teemo, Evelynn, Swain, Vlad, Leblanc, and Fizz). Look at the top pick rates. 6 of the top 40 are non-support APs, 14 are AD fighters, and 10 are ADCs (which is normal for ADCs). Look at the top win rates. Half the champs under 50% win rate are non-support APs. Of the champs above 50% win rate, 20 of 70 are non-support APs and 36 of 70 are ADs. Of those 36 ADs, 28 of them are outside of the ADC role. What metric are you using that would possibly justify an item as broken as Spear? And when you have 10 prime Atmas users already sitting near or above 52% win rate, how do you justify it? >3) LW total pen does NOT synergize with BC or Lethality. Total pen synergizes extremely well with lethality because resists are worth more % damage reduction at lower resist values. If you have 30 armor, each point of armor is worth .8% damage reduction. If you have 200 armor, each point of armor is only worth .25% damage reduction. So, for example, if you have a target with 55 armor, and you have 36 lethality, the target takes 16% reduced physical damage. If you build a LDR with 36 lethality, the target takes 0% reduced damage. If you build LDR with zero lethality, the target takes 26% reduced damage. That's major synergy. >Also, I believe your maths are wrong, because multiple sources of %Pen stack multiplicatively, not additively: Yep, you're right. A J4 with Q + BC + LDR would have 62% armor shred, not 83%. So at 4 item a lethality J4 would do true damage to targets with ~100 armor, which is a huge fucking difference from the 211 it would be if % pen stacked additively. I appreciate you pointing that out. =) I still think it's extremely problematic that someone like J4 can build only LDR and have 50% armor shred, and that % pen can get that high when there's also 82 lethality available alongside it. On the AP side there's 40% shred and a max of 41 pen available from all sources combined, and no pure AP/magic champ has kit shred except Evelynn. Again...why?
AP Champions get an item which makes them invulnerable... but AD dont, why? AP Champions get an item which gives %AP, but AD dont. Why? AP Champions get an item which gives them perma slow on all of their spells, AD dont, why? MR on squishies stays at 30 whereas Armor doubles or even triples over the course of a game, again... why? You really sound like a broken record here. Healing items like DD, and lifesteal arent even strong rn. You clearly dont play AD champs, and dont appreciate the issues these champs face. Spear of Shojin is hella expensive for the AD gives and probably wont even find a spot in a build.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 16
Hey Meddler, can you comment on the base attack speed changes to Aatrox, Tryn, Diana on the PBE? These are huge buffs to their laning state, which is not currently too much of a weakness.
: > Or does it work more like Jayce's ability that gives you Max attack speed for 3 attacks and it's intended to be a stand-alone attack speed steroid as opposed to scaling with other AS items? It's this Counterplay is intrinsic - if you delay the second or third attack, you've lost a ton of the value of attack speed. Not sure how short the buff is off the top of my head.
As much as I see the rationale behind this keystone, can we please not have more attack speed oriented keystones? Every single keystone in precision is attack speed oriented and now we will have one polluting the domination tree too.
Bind Me (EUW)
: ad carries are not and never were strong but good job they will be completely useless now.
You main Draven, why you're still complaining is beyond me. If anything these will help Draven a lot more than other ADCs.
: Don't think bloodthirster needs a buff. I'd rather propose a sightstone comeback with nerfs to support and their gold earnings. That along with the other changes should scale botlane back from being the deciding factor in most games before three items on the adc. Because, let's face it, that is the problem. Currently botlane can snowball too hard because of adcs being overtuned while their enabler gets too much money for free. WHile their support is friggin Janna half the time.
The item is objectively outclassed by Deaths Dance in 99% of the situations, not sure why it doesn't need a buff.
IISiroII (EUW)
: Any buffs to Kalista and Tristana? I think all the previous nerfs were too much (look at his winrates) and with this chances will definetly kill them.
?? Kalista doesn't use crit and is getting BT+Bork buffs. Not sure what you're talking about. Trist is exactly the type of champion that is supposed to get nerfed here.
Ëternal (NA)
: Well, since you guys are removing the IE/SS power spike, it should only be fair that you revert Vayne's Q and R nerfs as this was the main reason she was too strong in the past. Giving her back the AD on her ultimate will make her feel less like crap if these changes go through. After reading this, she seems to not fit into place with these new changes. Not only did you guys shoehorn her into building IE/SS after the 300 BoRK nerfs, the IE/SS power spike is now gone, so there's no reason to build that on her again. Her damage will now become all over the place after this update.
They're buffing BoRK. Relax. Edit: And BT, both of these items were valued on Vayne back in the day.
: Marksman changes coming to PBE in the next couple days
I've been playing since season 2. And as mid/top lane player, these updates are fckin awesome. AD champions just haven't been doing what they're supposed to and these are steps in the right direction. I had resorted myself to playing passive stuff like Cass/Vlad, but I may actually pull out some Talon/Renekton again. Thank Riot.
Suburan (NA)
: What are your thoughts on having it spawn top side first every game? * This will delay the jungler's first gank top as well as give your jungler a better chance of spotting the enemy's, relieving some gank pressure. * Bot-side jungle starts will no longer be de facto if the goal is to secure/contest the first scuttle * If scuttle spawns bot first, you can count on it impacting the bot lane meta. ADCs will fast push the first wave so they can secure that juicy crab for themselves.
This will probably force people to perform level 2 ganks on top side (get rid of top laner and then do scuttle). It'll also disproportionately favor purple side because they get red buff to fight with in their initial scuttle skirmish whereas the other is going to get blue. Edit: it'll probably just make top lane a bit too consistently chaotic near the level 2-3 mark.
Bezap (NA)
: Uggg, more stupid changes to the jungle... You guys could have helped out a lot, and removed the random RNG based crap you added last season...but no, More RNG, more unskilled luck based junk to make, and then make it a show where basically all the early game level 2 duelist and gankers will gain an early lead and become unstoppable. (Guess I am going back to Xin again... ugg). Instead of adding RNG to everything, maybe you guys should address the fact you have a skill based team game, where people SHOULD specialize in a role, and 1-2 people ahead SHOULD be able to counter act one feeder, and you: - Force people to be randomly filled, basically ensuring their team is at a disadvantage AND that player is either going to play like crap and hate it, or not care and feed their team to a loss. (Really, you guys don't even have an option for someone that would rather WAIT 20 minutes in queue for a decent game, then waste 30-45 minutes is a crap-shoot they don't want to play....sooner or later another game is going get things right and it will hurt) - Remove RNG crap, like the plants and now this stupid scuttle change You guys had great ideas in the past--support kill streaks, items that required a jungler farm instead of gank at lvl 2, I remember my pet wolf following me around as Xin, it was a good reason to trade smacking mid/top at level 2 for later game power, now it's largely who can get lvl 3 and step on some lanes neck first. I have no idea why you keep scrapping the good things you come up with and adding more junk--and more RNG based junk to boot--that the comments alone should tell you that the players that care enough to comment HATE and don't want. I love league, it's my favorite game and I spend far, far too much money on it, but even I have started looking into Dota 2 and playing it again more often... I agree the jungle needs some work, I didn't much like having to play tanks all this season for the most part due to their win-rates.. but this doesn't look like a good change at all.
Do you not read? "with a lot of notice given ahead of time to where it's going to spawn". The point is to make the game more dynamic instead of junglers just farming, ganking, and if a gank works they go for drag/turret/herald. This spices things up, definitely nice to have.
Xonra (NA)
: Really wish there would stop being change for the sake of change, masked behind reasoning that leaves people scratching their head. Leave the scuttle alone, cause this is frankly going to break some things pretty hard that somehow you guys aren't seeing. I said this in a response to Riot Novalas, but whoever is testing these changes seems REALLY out of touch with the current game to a frustrating degree.
You don't even know the full implications of the changes. You're a top lane main, if anything this will help you out, which is great. That lane sorely needs some help.
: This is just going to make everyone start taking the unique path I've been taking all season: buff -> buff -> level 2 gank top/mid while the enemy jungler is busy hitting level 3. I'm going to need a new unique strategy to avoid the enemy jungler now, because... Now there will be a greater than 1% chance of me crossing paths with him (more like 50% now).
How is this unique? This is disgustingly cheese, exactly what this game should not be promoting.
: Upcoming Jungle Changes for 8.10
Can we chat about comeback exp? It feels like we get punished for going out of our way to put the enemy jungle behind (both as a jungler or as a laner). No matter what we do to them, they'll just bounce back and might actually end up a higher level than you later on in the game even though they were 2 or 3 levels down.
: > [{quoted}](name=IcyOps,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Kiy5ZMuR,comment-id=002b000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-02T19:42:00.710+0000) > > I got to Diamond THIS season playing juggernauts. Feel free to search my OP.GG. Now that we&#x27;ve established that, juggernauts do NOT have a problem. The items are there and do they are doing their job just fine. Cleaver is a solid item in one package and Steraks is perfect for teamfight survivability. No, you didn't get diamond **playing juggernauts**, you got there by playing {{champion:122}} and {{champion:420}} only, the prime users of the items mentioned. That being said, you haven't played the majority of juggernauts, most of which are clearly weaker than the 2 mentioned both in SoloQ and competitive play. {{champion:86}} 's pick rate in professional play settles the argument that juggernauts need major improvements in order to keep up with modern meta, where damage, mobility, and survivability creep are all too high (to which, ironically, juggernauts do not contribute in any shape of form). > This is very much a Nasus thing, and is not shared among all juggernauts. His kit doesn&#x27;t care about having more AD. All he wants is resistances, Q stacks, and CDR to spam every skill he has. He&#x27;s built like a tank because he doesn&#x27;t need items that are offense/defense hybrids. Again, you&#x27;re a 600 game Nasus one trick with somehow a 45% winrate (over 600 games? wtf?) who ended their ranked season at division 5 with zero LP. You are not a good representation of juggernaut players. Nope, {{champion:36}} also does not use {{item:3071}} nor {{item:3053}} nor {{item:3742}} , which is the 2nd champion, and the only one I played alongside {{champion:75}} . Therefore, I'm exactly the best representation of juggernauts, and despite having performed better [than average challenger player](https://imgur.com/nemLkqd) in every single category, I was unable to only climb back to diamond. >There may be a time where certain juggernauts are good again, but expecting all of them to dominate top lane is a pipe-dream because they all have different playstyles, kits, and scaling. And that time is not even on the horizon, at least not with the slowest pace that Riot is addressing their issues (if at all). In no way am I expecting them to ''dominate'' top lane, just being picked occasionally would suffice. > The competitive meta is complex and values safety above all else. It will always have a distinct group of champions that are the strongest above others. Even right now it&#x27;s not just &quot;tank tops&quot;, it&#x27;s Gnar, Camille, GP, each of which play in completely different manners. All in all, juggernauts have had 0% pick rate in pro play for 3rd consecutive Season. To put it in your words, their *''distinct playstyle, kits and scaling''* amount to utter garbage, and this is an overwhelming issue that's being ignored by Riot, and in the same the manner you are talking about it. League of Legends top meta has become so stale, that the average viewership has reached an all-time low during regular Season 7, many of the veteran players stopped watching it as a result (me included). TL;DR: Stop basing your subclass opinion (of juggernauts) on 2 most powerful members of the same, your sample range is not wide enough, and it only proves the overwhelmingly transparent issue of those you consciously **CHOOSE** not to play.
I don't disagree with you here. I think juggernauts along with other aggressive top laners need some exposure in competitive games. But that issue being an itemization one is debatable. Although items may be a part of it, juggernauts and fighters both just don't have keystones that work for them. Yes they can arguably run Grasp but that keystone sucks outside of lane and is suspect to being abused by tanks. Aftershock, again same issue of being abused by tanks/tank supports with low gold income. Riot needs to acknowledge both of these classes and give them more agency. Is the new conqueror keystone going to do it? Maybe. It looks promising but only time with tell. I feel like even that keystone can be abused by tanks with high %hp base damages like {{champion:223}} or even {{champion:78}} . The bottom line here is that Riot needs to engage in discussion about these champions and the state of the lane in general. Perhaps the solutions offered here aren't the best, but they're a step in the direction we need to go with these archetypes.
: > [{quoted}](name=IcyOps,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Kiy5ZMuR,comment-id=002b0000,timestamp=2018-03-02T17:08:00.512+0000) > > These thoughts are completely misplaced. Juggernauts don&#x27;t need items, fighters need better ones. Items like Black Cleaver, Steraks, and even Deadmans are fine for the juggernauts that tend to use them (Illaoi, Darius, etc.). Yes, exactly, these items are fine, but **only to those that use them**. If you had read the topic (which you didn't), you would see that it is already mentioned that not all juggernauts use these items, e.g. Nasus does not use Black Cleaver, Deadman's, and even Sterak's is situational. > The problem is that **fighter** items like Ravenous Hydra, Deaths Dance, completely suck. Big ticket AD items provide no incentive for fighters to do well. No one said that juggernauts' problems have to be ignored in order for other fighters to get their items improved. Both issues can be tackled, stop being so egoistic. > Fix Fighters, not Juggernauts. Juggernauts are fine right now. I'm sorry, but in what competitive game are juggernauts *''fine''*? They literally have had ~0% pick rate for the 3rd consecutive Season in professional play. Just because silver people don't know how to deal with them, it doesn't mean they are okay. Again, if they were they wouldn't be avoided by pro players like they are carrying a plague.
> Just because silver people don't know how to deal with them, it doesn't mean they are okay I got to Diamond THIS season playing juggernauts. Feel free to search my OP.GG. Now that we've established that, juggernauts do NOT have a problem. The items are there and do they are doing their job just fine. Cleaver is a solid item in one package and Steraks is perfect for teamfight survivability. > Nasus does not use Black Cleaver, Deadman's, and even Sterak's is situational. This is very much a Nasus thing, and is not shared among all juggernauts. His kit doesn't care about having more AD. All he wants is resistances, Q stacks, and CDR to spam every skill he has. He's built like a tank because he doesn't need items that are offense/defense hybrids. Again, you're a 600 game Nasus one trick with somehow a 45% winrate (over 600 games? wtf?) who ended their ranked season at division 5 with zero LP. You are not a good representation of juggernaut players. >I'm sorry, but in what competitive game are juggernauts ''fine''? They literally have had ~0% pick rate for the 3rd consecutive Season in professional play. The competitive meta is complex and values safety above all else. It will always have a distinct group of champions that are the strongest above others. Even right now it's not just "tank tops", it's Gnar, Camille, GP, each of which play in completely different manners. There may be a time where certain juggernauts are good again, but expecting all of them to dominate top lane is a pipe-dream because they all have different playstyles, kits, and scaling.
Viscâ (EUW)
: Trust me Q range increase which is we have to get.Because all ADCs have 625+ range with their POWERFULL ITEMS + SHIELDS.Base movementspeed not big problem because we have Celerity but to be honest 335 MS for an Assasin SO SLOW!.
Ok so we can jump on ADC from a bit further, how does that help if we dont have the damage to go through their shields, deal with the support's CC all while taking crits in the face from the ADC? I think the solution here is to just give us access to more lethality.
Viscâ (EUW)
: Hello from Turkey :) Meddler im a Talon main since season 3 i have 5000+ Talon games because i love so much him awesome Rogue for me but i feel so bad atm i mean in this meta..Talon needs some buffs especially Q Dash Range increase 550 to 600 or 650 we really need this second 345 or 350 base movement speed and passive last scale is level11 what about buff to past scale level 18.Also Rake delay is feeling high to me it should be 0.60 -0.65.In otherhand in season 7 we were go 24lethality rune page and we can have +80 lethality in lategame but atm it is 54 + sudden impact it is just +64 what about giving lethality to Talon's E like when Talon jump to wall he gains +10 lethality (Think Rengar R) They are my thoughts i hope u can buff Talon like that d
S7 Talon Main here, I disagree with Q range and movespeed, but agree with lethality. Our damage suffered a ton because we get less lethality in general now, giving us lower windows of power spikes especially at higher elos.
: >Duskblade - Nerfing it. can u at least do something for {{item:3814}} ? this item is so "weak".
They've acknowledged that assassins that used this item will get compensation buffs.
: Please consider developing items for Juggernauts, such as [this one](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/pth0PU8J-where-are-items-for-juggernauts).
These thoughts are completely misplaced. Juggernauts don't need items, fighters need better ones. Items like Black Cleaver, Steraks, and even Deadmans are fine for the juggernauts that tend to use them (Illaoi, Darius, etc.). The problem is that **fighter** items like Ravenous Hydra, Deaths Dance, completely suck. Big ticket AD items provide no incentive for fighters to do well. Fix Fighters, not Juggernauts. Juggernauts are fine right now.
: Fist of all it is March 2nd. Braincells . . . do you have them Meddler? ---------- Oh look, the same champions being talked about and no insight on the actual champions it needs to be on. Ahri needs changes because parts of her kit is not very interactive. You've been saying this for 2 weeks now. Move on, Meddler. I want you to talk about my champion or other peoples favorite champions. Lee Sin needs a little help because he is no longer meta and Lee Sin needs to be meta every year. Blah blah blah. We have champions sitting in a horrible state for years now because they don't have a part of their kit that is very interactive or their itemization was nerfed. The excuse and reasoning for working on popular champions makes no sense when you have champions being purposely neglected for almost 5 years now. Not every champion in this game has to be entirely fixed with a VGU, since you like to work on the champions that don't actually deserve it. This game just requires a Development Team with brain-cells that can think about something else other than the same popular champions every patch, every skin selection, every cinematic, every lore update, and everything. I mean Meddler . . . . you can always just spend an entire two years wasting your time on champions that don't need work, but in a year or two completely reverting nearly all of the work you did those two years. This work doesn't require braincells. It requires a Development team with a working brain.
Your comment doesn't bring anything to the conversation. Atleast bring up the champion you're concerned about?
Adalvar (EUW)
: I think you guys need to consider the possibility of scrapping the aura off {{item:3001}} completely? Not only is it being used as a item for magic damage users when it should be for tank users, it's also mostly replacing the scaling role that {{item:3027}} was providing to several mages. Why not shift the aura to {{item:3027}} as a reward once the 10 minute stacking timer completes and give {{item:3001}} a different passive? {{item:3027}} has been left on the dust as a scaling item and {{item:3001}} is way too good on the wrong users. With this change, both items would have a better shot at fullfiling their intended roles.
Is this a joke? God I can't take boards seriously at all. RoA is fine. It has insane gold efficiency and will always provide a return if you can purchase it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Kiy5ZMuR,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-03-02T16:12:45.960+0000) > > Our thinking&#x27;s more the other way around. That we&#x27;ve ended up reducing mana gating too much with Manaflow Band and Presence of Mind and that&#x27;s one of the big reasons to nerf them as a result. I mean with certain champions that were affected by the targeted spells changes like Cassiopeia. It's clear that she has been using Presence of Mind to mask her worst laning now that her E pulls minion aggro, and it's made her far too reliant on it to clear minion waves to be able to trade effectively. On a side note: Since you guys are making Abyssal Mask worse to build on magic damage dealers, is there a chance that you revert the previous nerfs to Cassiopeia's base damage and lower the AP scaling again? Since building that item was the only reason for the nerf.
Why are you talking about Cass buffs? She's strong as hell atm, even without Abyssal mask, and Presence of the Mind. You don't need those two to do well and I'd argue other options including Resolve tree or Rylais are better for her.
: Her E costs a lot because it is oppressive lane harass. You can only avoid it by standing really far back and accept being zoned off the minions because it's only dodgeable when it has the full travel time. So it can't cost less mana. Here's a reasonable option but I doubt they'll do it: Rescale the mana cost to 60/70/80/90/100 Rescale the base damage to 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 Make it more delayed. Maybe a 0.25s delay when it pops, or maybe adjust the travel time so that it starts out slower and speeds up so that mid-range it can be dodged. Lux mains will downvote this post but I'm just telling the hard truth. A harass tool that good can't be cheap. It has to be a worse harass tool if you want it to be cheaper.
As a Diamond mid main, this guy sums up the problem very well. Playing vs Lux in lane is super toxic, dodging her E is near impossible unless you're moving fast af or have some type of blink of flash. She needs a bit of a revamp, maybe lower E radius and increase its damage a bit so she can one hit casters at level 9.
: Here’s some stuff. Her God is one of many but, as nation of islands, the god of the sea and life is pretty major, major. Buhru is very advanced in its use of magic, monsters, and magically powered golems. The religious roles of her faith are divided between the sexes. Some roles only women fill, some roles only men fill (and a fair amount of the lower ranks are unisex). A lot of the work for the faith relates to two things: 1. The sea 2. Kicking people into doing something - Esp stuff that will aid the church or various cities. (Example: “What are you doing right now..? Nothing! Because, the rain made the road too muddy to travel!!! That is an excuse!! Go make a stone road to the beach. And a dock. Make both the best you’ve ever seen. On that road, build you name in giant stones so your tribe and family will remember the gift you built!)
Can you make him/her as a champion so we can play as them? :)
Meddler (NA)
: We feel Duskblade's got too much power in it relative to its users kits. That means it's a really large power spike in a way that's more homogeneous than power that's more unique to each champion. We've been doing a bit of work on some of its core intended users recently (Talon, Zed, Rengar) and nerfing it potentially allows us to do more of that rather than being blocked by Duskblade's state.
Thanks for the response, Meddler. I think that your direction will be healthier for these champions. Looking forward to the changes as they come.
: Across the years from 55% win rate on master tier to 46% win rate on low plat. [Soraka main sadness]
I think this is very much a *you* problem. Soraka is currently at a 51% winrate with a 7% pickrate, these numbers aren't bad at all. One thing you have to recognize while one-tricking a champion is that your playstyles will not stay the same throughout these years. The game changes, and you have to adapt or move on. I used to be a Talon main last season, and with changes to lethality over the past year, there's no reason for me to play him or even mid lane anymore. I have many more cases where I mained X champion or X playstyle and it got changed as time went on. We have to recognize and accept that. I disagree with many points made here. It seems that you're annoyed by Janna. If she's that much of a problem, just ban her. You can make the decision to make sure you never see a Janna in your games ever again. Despite that, heals are much much more powerful than shields, especially at high elo. You can play around shields by choosing to disengage/not fighting when the shield is up, you can't play around heals. Heals are forced utility. Shields are strong, yes, but they require you to actually play aggressive otherwise the shield doesn't do anything. Soraka's E is extremely powerful. I can't remember how many times I've got fucked over by that spell, and a global heal isn't anything to scoff at either - it affects any lane, immediately. The reason they took away her self-heal was because of how strong Redemption was. Note that the rejuvenation change was in 6.5 and Redemption/Ardent Censer/support item rework (aka when supports became strong af) was in 6.22. Rejuvenation was merely a response to make sure her self-healing was brought down to an adequate level, given the strength of her new toys. Edit: you're taking Predator/Klepto on Soraka, idk what you're expecting tbh.
Vayatir (NA)
: Thoughts on Camille at present? She's doing really well in solo queue and professional play. I really love the champion but she could probably use a tap.
They shouldn't have increased the time allowed for Q2. She's supposed to be a high skill, precise champ.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 16
So KhaZix is the only one performing well with Duskblade but we're going to nerf all the AD assassins across the board? :/ Please don't do this. An alternative would be to pull warrior enchant AD down to 50 or 55. Please don't kill mid lane AD assassins, they're already in a bad position. First ADCs like Jhin/MF got lethality nerfed to 18 from 20, and now we get this. Be reasonable.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 9
Dual Percent Pen... are you serious? Champions that have two styles of damage are already faring well- Jax, Shyvana, Akali, because PTA works well with hybrid damage. And now you want to give them another keystone? How is this 'bruiser' keystone intending to solve issues for champions like Renekton, Darius, Fiora, Xin Zhao, and many other fervor users who got the short end of the stick? Yes the first two are getting buffs but it doesnt change the fact that they have no keystone which feels *good* to play with. Just give us some bonus AD from the keystone and we will be gucci. Edit: ofc I get downvoted for outlining the truth lol. Riot hates AD bruisers.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 19
Hi, any word on AD assassins like Zed/Talon? Lethality nerfs meant to target MF/Jhin had a significant detriment on these assassins. Also although it doesnt reflect in jungling assassins like K6 and Rengar, laning assassins who relied on early/mid game poke without a blink or dash (Zed/Talon) are significantly weaker as they do not get any lethality until they commit to an all-in. Bonus AD from runes is also down. This means that Zed's Q and Talon's W at the levels 5-9 mark are having much less impact than before, and the lower total lethality is just making the mid to lategame just unbearable (Lethality has exponentially increasing returns). With an already poor lategame (we hit like wet noodles), the changes have made our early and mid game even worse. This is not considering the stopwatch meta making both Zhonyas cheaper, but also available on ADCs and even supports who were our prime targets. Any love would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Meddler.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 5
What are your thoughts on AD assassins? Are they doing their job appropriately at different stages of the game?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 13
Hey, have you considered an AP ratio instead of a flat base damage buff for Brand's passive? As it stands, Brand's passive feels extremely underwhelming in mid lane because it doesnt scale with AP unless you get 3 procs. This means that quick trades or a missed Q/W = lost trades and consequently lost lanes. An AP ratio would also promote his role as a mid lane mage instead of as a support who has the capability to deal the most dmg to champions with little to no gold.
TomiMan7 (EUNE)
: HE IS NOT A SUPPORT. HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE A MID LANER. with the recent changes to the frost queen line, no longer procing the gold on burn dmg he is just flat out bad. Not just as a support bud as a mid laner. If you cant play against him its not our fault. His Q are blocked by minions his W has a 0,625sec delay with an stupidly low radius, his E has the range of his AA.
Exactly why they should add an AP ratio instead of buffing base damages.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 8
Meddler PLEASE don't buff Brand's base damage. Put an ap ratio for the love of god, but not the base dmg. A support should not be outputting such insane dmg with next to no items.
Queš (EUW)
: Hey Meddler. I wanted to talk about {{champion:83}} . RiotMapleNectar stated that his nerf will be pulled soon,so I am happy about this for now. But I wanted to suggest few things about Yorick's balance as a quite high elo Yorick enthusiast since his rework(d1 on a few accounts). The thing about {{champion:83}} is that even now he is pretty mediocore/ok in diamond+ elo (49-51 winrate on average) and any nerf to his trading power will hurt him alot(like base ad nerf). However,he has high winrate in bronze,silver and gold. I am almost certain thats because people do not correctly respond to his midgame splitpush and try to overforce things and lose turrets/inhibitors for free with that new introduced tower push speed.Also maybe this causes alot of Nashors loses after. Also its quite obvious that people in lower ranks probably dont play around his weaknesses and do smth like : tp on creep in lane when Yorick is pushing with his flock or use their mobility spells to jump and trade with him(which leads in easiest combo for him).I ve played on my plat smurf before and even there people do such silly mistakes vs Yorick. Anyway I wanted to suggest for full Q on buildings revert or : 1.Let his Q "unlock" on buildings when he reaches rank 3 of his ultimate (16 lvl). 2.Let his Q bonus damage scale with levels on buildings (30% level 1 and like 100% level 18 or smth like that). Also I do believe that turrets are kinda weak right now and Demolish rune is strong.Grasp is little overtuned too in my opinion. Also {{champion:164}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:157}} took a huge hit with Fervor removal(Press the Attack is great,but Fervor was much better against tankier targets and overall IMO).And Yorick always had problems with Fervor bruisers. TL;DR. {{champion:83}} winrate is 50% in diamond + even now. Dont hurt his ability to trade in lane(like base ad nerf). Demolish + Q is too strong combo ,esp. in lower ranks. Revert Q changes,buff turrets and look at Demolish and Grasp. Fervor champions are too weak and they are his natural counters.
This needs to be wayy higher up. This is essentially perfect analysis of the interplay between Yorick and Fervor champs. Honestly if they just fix the Precision tree for bruisers, Yorick might not even need nerfs.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 15
Thoughts on precision tree for fighters like Camille Fiora Kled? They dont want 18% attack speed, they prefer bonus AD.
: This is merely my personal opinion, but I'd really prefer if supports didn't have to buy Sightstone as a first rush. With the nerfs to Ardent Censer shipping this week, we'll likely see supports going back to getting Sightstone as their first item, but is that world really better? Firstly, it's an item that doesn't offer much excitement for the support - and yes their role is to multiply their adc, defend from ganks, peel etc, but is buying an item that grants more vision something that a support is super pumped to do? It's certainly valuable, but having sightstone be an early purchase also means we're likely to see less agro bot lane fights due to it being harder for a jungler gank, it being harder for the laners to use FoW to their advantage to scare you into thinking their jungler is there by playing more agro in the lane etc. If we were to somehow do away with sightstone, or at least make it so the support didn't need to buy it, we'd likely see satisfaction in the role increase across the board as players got to make more exciting decisions in the item system. That world is harder to solve for, as the continuous narrative of how do we best support supports goes on. I think this year was a pretty marked improvement, but there's still some issues that need to be ironed out. If a support is intended to multiply the adc, giving them more gold and powerful items means their adc will be that much stronger. There's more to figure out than I can go into here, but it's a constant discussion that we're having on how we can improve the situation. EDIT: Adding a small disclaimer to the bottom of this since it got cross posted to Reddit. My first sentence should have read as "didn't have to buy Sightstone as a first rush". A world where the support doesn't need to build it all because of other means to gaining vision is an exciting world. What if there were other ways of establishing vision that weren't based on an item purchase? Things like Zombie/Poro wards in runes reforged come to mind when I think about it, but maybe there's more that we could do. I certainly didn't intend this as an official stance on Sightstone and it's place in the game. This was just my personal opinion on something KempyreanPirate was curious about. Sorry for the confusion!
It's very important that sightstone remains in this game. That item is what *differentiates* the good supports between the bad supports. This isn't just "hey let's shield this guy or heal this guy because they're fighting", this is ACTIVE decision making. Traditionally support has ALWAYS been about game knowledge, knowing the importance of vision and nuances of ward position has always been essential to that role. The reason it's rushed is because it has *significant* game impact. The game impact is not just limited to the bot lane but also for other lanes such as top lane (if a jungler is spotted by a bot lane ward, they are *enabled* to play more aggressively). This is another reason why fighters are not the meta in the top lane. There's less vision in the early game to play around with and allow for aggression. Overall, support has ALWAYS been about decision making. By removing sightstone, you will remove a significant chunk of that aspect. Redemption/Ardent Censer doesn't enable this. Redemption/Ardent Censer have clear-cut uses, there's no decision making involved. Hey is team low? Use Redemption. Is ADC in combat? Use shield with Ardent Censer buff. Not cool and definitely does not reward the better supports. Just my perspective as a high elo player.
Hakubak (NA)
: Hello there Rioters! I have a couple questions that I've been curious about for a short while and I'd like to know what info you can disclose on them. 1. Are there plans to nerf {{champion:42}} at any point soon with his resurgence in the meta, or to buff those underplayed champions that have been left in the dust like {{champion:9}} , {{champion:74}} , {{champion:106}} , {{champion:77}} , or {{champion:72}} ? Although not all of them are unplayable, they've been nerfed/set behind so much to the point that I haven't seen any of them on SR in months. 2. Also, are there any specific tanks you can mention at this point in time that will be included in the update, or at least a ballpark of how many? I know Maokai and Sejuani are set for having their splashes updated in that patch, so I can only assume they will be included.
Please don't buff Heim. That champion is a pain to play vs as Melee.
: Patch Chat with the Playtest Team - 7.3, nerfing permabanned champs
Do you feel that the Jayce nerfs are enough? 7.2 was an indirect buff to him via Lethality buffs, and he was already considered strong before that. I feel that the 7.3 nerfs will just bring him to about the 7.1 powerlevel, maybe a tad bit lower. But still quite strong. Zyra and Malz are extremely frustrating to play vs. Have you looked into toning down their support power level without toning down the mid lane power level? Maybe nerf the AP support item(s)? What about Liandries+Rylais abusers? This build is not viable on every mage, but if it is, then they synergize really really well with it.
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Vicimus

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