PRoxy oQ (EUNE)
: Why is she only assassin without escape ?
Why are you using Shaco's Q or R as an ESCAPE when he has to use both of those to go in and assassinate someone? Shaco is the only assassin without an escape. Diana is not considered an assassin, and doesn't NEED an escape. Also if Ekko's E is an escape, so is Diana's R. They work similarly.
: "Why nerf my champion instead of the tools she uses that every other champion uses too?" Maybe cuz everyone else isn't out of line.
> [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleeper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEEJ12Qv,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-05-11T13:52:37.376+0000) > > "Why nerf my champion instead of the tools she uses that every other champion uses too?" > > Maybe cuz everyone else isn't out of line. I like how you're saying "my champion" but I haven't played Riven in a very long time. Riven wasn't the problem, Conqueror is, and again, the auto attack thing would only address the problem champions, outside of Jax, but Jax would do fine without conqueror. > [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleeper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEEJ12Qv,comment-id=0001000000000002,timestamp=2019-05-11T13:53:32.513+0000) > > Urgot doesn't have 4 dashes and his W actively slows him on use. > > /thread He doesn't need 4 dashes, he's meant to sit on top of you with a shield that's equal to probably half of his health bar, and again, you all complained about Riven's AD scaling shield, now Urgot has one that scales HIGHER(AND HAS HP SCALING TOO) and no one's shit talking about his AD shield. Also Riven's "4 dashes" are equal to about 2 overall. Try running from a Tryndamere with his one dash as Riven. I bet you can't. > [{quoted}](name=VanaQuish,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEEJ12Qv,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-11T10:33:28.261+0000) > > I mean urgot is a juggernaut. High durability high damage. Riven is a skirmisher. Situational high durability and high damage. Also because riven is so damn mobility she is extremely slippy. Leading to cases where chasing seems way harder than killing someone that has resistances. There are actually a lot of top laners who can catch up to Riven pretty easily. Her dashes equal about 2 dashes overall, and they take time to complete. Also if she uses her Q all at once it takes some time to get it back off cooldown. Her E can CURRENTLY be used every 3 seconds, but that's going to be moved up to double, which again, will make her shield EXTREMELY weak compared to Urgot's. My main annoyance is people always complained about Riven's E shield having 100% AD scaling like it was a problem when AP champions have AP scaling on their shields. Then Urgot gets an AD shield and everyone just pretends like nothing ever happened with AD scaling shields, until that one guy, who probably didn't even realize Urgot had an AD shield until I mentioned something, and now wants to act like his is totally fair vs Riven's "totally unfair" one.
: > [{quoted}](name=VoraciousX,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5LOXFJ0u,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-11T08:17:21.483+0000) > > The only way to restore them would be to remove heal and shield power, but supports will whine about being useless without it, despite them being TOTALLY fine before heal and shield power was ever even a thing. Removing heal and shield power would cause enchanters to build AP like they were originally intended. Janna wouldn't max Q though building as an AP support, she'd probably still max E, or at least W. Maybe then, just MAYBE, Twin Shadows and Shurelya's Reverie would get used more often. Supports were fine before heal and shield power was a thing. Then our AP ratios got gutted. Shield and heal ratios were eventually considered too powerful and hit hard with several nerfs AND without restoring a Little AP that wasn’t lost in the initial support nerfs. True supports aren’t borderline useless right now, in case you haven’t been keeping track of professional play. Champions like Brand, Gallo and Nautilus are making waves in botlane and they aren’t true support champions. True supports have been hit with nerf after nerf after nerf without much, if any, compensation.
> [{quoted}](name=Boltonator,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5LOXFJ0u,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T15:22:08.448+0000) > > Supports were fine before heal and shield power was a thing. Then our AP ratios got gutted. > > Shield and heal ratios were eventually considered too powerful and hit hard with several nerfs AND without restoring a Little AP that wasn’t lost in the initial support nerfs. > > True supports aren’t borderline useless right now, in case you haven’t been keeping track of professional play. Champions like Brand, Gallo and Nautilus are making waves in botlane and they aren’t true support champions. True supports have been hit with nerf after nerf after nerf without much, if any, compensation. Enchanter supports have been top of the class for a long time. Nautilus was originally meant to be a top laner but ended up landing as a support very quickly, and has pretty much mostly been used as support for most of his lifespan. Galio kind of has some support tools as well. Brand is only good as a support for the most part. Brand has pretty much always been in professional, and the other two are tanks, in a scene where tanks can actually do stuff. Lower tiers don't use tanks as much. Janna hasn't received any nerfs that I can recall since heal and shield power. Soraka just got a buff to her heals, Lulu has been rarely touched, Nami as far as I can remember hasn't been touched, Morgana has a shit ton but that's because they buffed her when she was ALREADY THE TOP SUPPORT AT THE TIME with her "rework". I haven't seen many enchanter nerfs AT ALL. There was one where they nerfed heal and shield power, because big surprise heal and shield power is BS, but individual nerfs to support heals and shields I haven't seen, except Karma, and Karma's always been pretty bullshit. Anyways, looking at U.GG, the top supports are: Nautilus, Nami, Morgana, Sona, and Janna. What a surprise, 4 out of 5 are enchanters. It's been this way SINCE heal and shield power except for like one small moment where tanks were dominating the top list of supports. I've been keeping track when I was playing for a while now just because I want to see how long they're gonna keep heal and shield power a thing while enchanters are the cream of the crop. Btw another thing to note, even though heal and shield power is meant to be an ENCHANTER thing, guess what? Tanks are building pretty similarly to enchanters(outside of Ardent/Athene's), because the ACTIVES are powerful(pretty much EVERY support, tank, enchanter, or whatever is building redemption). Enchanters are building it because the actives are powerful AND they buff their shields and heals without them having to build specifically for their scalings. The only reason enchanters are building heal and shield power is because it allows them to build more tanky, which is always the better choice than building squishy, problem with that is, enchanters were always meant to build squishy AP. Brand is pretty much the only support NOT to build it, and that's because people play Brand to kill people, not to save their teammates. When an item is so busted that it's built on nearly EVERY support regardless of it's stats, there's a problem.
: > [{quoted}](name=VoraciousX,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lp4ynHqX,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-11T07:53:22.685+0000) > > When you're out for 3 years you're bound to be rusty. You're not gonna get better at a game by not playing it, 3 years has also likely ruined your senses of the game. Not to mention the game can change a lot in just one patch, but you've missed a LOT of patches, so a lot of things have changed for you. This game also punishes misplays much harder than it used to. As for losing against silver players, I feel like as the game evolves, players also get better over time, so perhaps silver players when you were playing were less experienced than silver players who are playing now, especially due to the more punishing misplays. So what should I do to play like i played before? I was counting to come back and in like 5 to 6 months to reach diamond but from what i've seen for now my mechanics and my reactions are nothing else than silver/gold material. I have more than 4k hours of League and i thought that i can do it but from what i've seen for now especially in my replays, i suck, big time.
> [{quoted}](name=Heko The Man,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lp4ynHqX,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-11T17:15:38.208+0000) > > So what should I do to play like i played before? I was counting to come back and in like 5 to 6 months to reach diamond but from what i've seen for now my mechanics and my reactions are nothing else than silver/gold material. I have more than 4k hours of League and i thought that i can do it but from what i've seen for now especially in my replays, i suck, big time. Practice is the only thing you can do. You might not get your old skills back that quickly due to how long you've been away. 3 years is a long time.
: Since AP supports are a thing can AP builds on classic suppots be restored?
The only way to restore them would be to remove heal and shield power, but supports will whine about being useless without it, despite them being TOTALLY fine before heal and shield power was ever even a thing. Removing heal and shield power would cause enchanters to build AP like they were originally intended. Janna wouldn't max Q though building as an AP support, she'd probably still max E, or at least W. Maybe then, just MAYBE, Twin Shadows and Shurelya's Reverie would get used more often.
WizardBG15 (EUNE)
: I want to One Trick a Champion
Riven, Yasuo, Tryndamere, Aatrox, Irelia, and Quinn are all mobile and have some form of CC. Perhaps you'll like one of them. Yasuo and Riven will take a decent amount of effort to learn though.
: > [{quoted}](name=VoraciousX,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0e4VaUfJ,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T07:47:40.454+0000) > > You haven't played for a long time, I wouldn't say you'd know about Akali that well, except for very specific patches, and again, you only know of an Akali with pink wards revealing her in her shroud, which is not counterplay, or at least not HEALTHY counterplay. Players shouldn't be forced to not have a 6th item just because they want to counter Akali, and Akali shouldn't be forced to just lose because of a 75g or 50g(I think pink wards were 50g but they could have also been 75) item. i mean there was a trinket, before trinket oracles, there was always something, but against this new shroud there's no counterplay at all.
> [{quoted}](name=Heko The Man,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0e4VaUfJ,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T07:53:54.129+0000) > > i mean there was a trinket, before trinket oracles, there was always something, but against this new shroud there's no counterplay at all. Yes there is, you can wait it out, you can use AOEs, she reveals herself for MUCH longer inbetween attacks in her new shroud as well. There's plenty of counterplay to new Akali. Also if you hit her with an ability, a silhouette of her will shimmer, which reveals her location. Items that completely invalidate a champion were made to not invalidate those champions' abilities for good reasons. It's not FAIR for the champion, and it's not FAIR for the player having to use that item slot.
: Haven't played LoL for 3 years... i became very bad at this game.
When you're out for 3 years you're bound to be rusty. You're not gonna get better at a game by not playing it, 3 years has also likely ruined your senses of the game. Not to mention the game can change a lot in just one patch, but you've missed a LOT of patches, so a lot of things have changed for you. This game also punishes misplays much harder than it used to. As for losing against silver players, I feel like as the game evolves, players also get better over time, so perhaps silver players when you were playing were less experienced than silver players who are playing now, especially due to the more punishing misplays.
: > [{quoted}](name=VoraciousX,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0e4VaUfJ,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T07:34:59.963+0000) > > New Akali is fine, old Akali was overpowered and only required a 75 or 50g item for her entire enemy team to counter her BEFORE 6.22. That wasn't really counterplay. It was an item completely removing the champion from the game. New Akali is both better for the game(she has more counterplay) and more fun(she doesn't just mindlessly use point and click damage to one shot you). I don't understand why people want to revert her. It makes no sense to me. As for people wanting to revert Irelia, I see that as salty players being mad because they don't have an ability that turns entire 1v1s in their favor whether you engage on her or she engages on you. New Irelia is pretty similar to old Irelia, but she has a better ultimate, and an actual stun with counterplay. Btw Pink Wards don't exist anymore, and stealth consists of two different types. Types you can see with Control Wards(the new pink ward basically, that form of stealth is called camouflage, and is used for engage type stealth that lasts longer and is used out of combat mainly like Twitch Q, Eve's passive, etc) and stealth you CAN'T see with control wards(in combat stealth with shorter durations and mainly used to drop aggro etc, like Vayne's ultimate, Akali's W, etc). Old Akali didn't have counterplay on a LOT of her kit. You just were forced to take her damage if you got anywhere near her. New Akali has plenty of it. Same for Irelia. Old Irelia didn't have a lot of counterplay, new Irelia does. > > Btw that wasn't a rework on Akali herself, that was a rework on STEALTH that affected Akali. They also gave her a bit of love in the form of making her shroud a dash. Old akali was a noob stomper. Nowhere near op. Pink ward+stun/snare and she couldn't do crap in teamfights. She was good for smurfing in like bronze to get 40 kills. Her laning phase was shit, she had super bad early game.
> [{quoted}](name=Heko The Man,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0e4VaUfJ,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T07:45:37.761+0000) > > Old akali was a noob stomper. Nowhere near op. Pink ward+stun/snare and she couldn't do crap in teamfights. She was good for smurfing in like bronze to get 40 kills. Her laning phase was shit, she had super bad early game. You haven't played for a long time, I wouldn't say you'd know about Akali that well, except for very specific patches, and again, you only know of an Akali with pink wards revealing her in her shroud, which is not counterplay, or at least not HEALTHY counterplay. Players shouldn't be forced to not have a 6th item just because they want to counter Akali, and Akali shouldn't be forced to just lose because of a 75g or 50g(I think pink wards were 50g but they could have also been 75) item.
Manxxom (NA)
: I want everyone to make a meme comment based on this image starting with the word "when"
: > [{quoted}](name=VoraciousX,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0e4VaUfJ,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T06:41:58.627+0000) > > Twilight Shroud > New Effect: Now teleports Akali to the cast location, placing Twilight Shroud at her original position. > New Effect: Casting Twilight Shroud places Akali's other abilities on a 0.5 seconds global cooldown. > New Effect: 250 units cast range. > New Effect: Now retains Twilight Shroud's full bonus movement speed value until she leaves the area. > Stealth reclassified as Invisibility. > > This is several patches BEFORE her rework. 6.22, her rework was in 8. 15. i stopped to play LoL 6 months before 6.22. i came back few weeks ago so i dunno how that rework looked like but i'm pretty sure that it was op if shroud had no counterplay. everything that has no counterplay is op.
> [{quoted}](name=Heko The Man,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0e4VaUfJ,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T07:17:25.141+0000) > > i stopped to play LoL 6 months before 6.22. i came back few weeks ago so i dunno how that rework looked like but i'm pretty sure that it was op if shroud had no counterplay. > everything that has no counterplay is op. New Akali is fine, old Akali was overpowered and only required a 75 or 50g item for her entire enemy team to counter her BEFORE 6.22. That wasn't really counterplay. It was an item completely removing the champion from the game. New Akali is both better for the game(she has more counterplay) and more fun(she doesn't just mindlessly use point and click damage to one shot you). I don't understand why people want to revert her. It makes no sense to me. As for people wanting to revert Irelia, I see that as salty players being mad because they don't have an ability that turns entire 1v1s in their favor whether you engage on her or she engages on you. New Irelia is pretty similar to old Irelia, but she has a better ultimate, and an actual stun with counterplay. Btw Pink Wards don't exist anymore, and stealth consists of two different types. Types you can see with Control Wards(the new pink ward basically, that form of stealth is called camouflage, and is used for engage type stealth that lasts longer and is used out of combat mainly like Twitch Q, Eve's passive, etc) and stealth you CAN'T see with control wards(in combat stealth with shorter durations and mainly used to drop aggro etc, like Vayne's ultimate, Akali's W, etc). Old Akali didn't have counterplay on a LOT of her kit. You just were forced to take her damage if you got anywhere near her. New Akali has plenty of it. Same for Irelia. Old Irelia didn't have a lot of counterplay, new Irelia does. Btw that wasn't a rework on Akali herself, that was a rework on STEALTH that affected Akali. They also gave her a bit of love in the form of making her shroud a dash.
: I am Sick of the State of the Meta, and I know how to fix it.
You know Thornmail actually GAINED health and lost armor, right? It didn't have health before it's "rework"(basically it's gutting. Sure Bramble Vest is OP, but a Yi just shreds through thornmail Rammus like butter now). Also to be fair to defenses, I build Spirit Visage on Kat in my core builds and I do pretty well with it, unlike building glass cannon.
Potats (EUNE)
: Ultimate Skin
I've been wanting a Kat ultimate skin forever, but she's definitely not getting one this time around thanks to Battle Academia. Although that skin is so nice I don't mind too much.
: prediction: yuumi is going to do terrible at all levels of play unless she gets massive buffs
I dunno, I've Q'd some people with a decently low health threshold and they've just died. I've killed people without even knowing I was gonna kill them. Sure her damage IS considerably low and she has no waveclear, but the fact that her damage is pretty much guaranteed when attached to someone, and you can ignite someone WHILE being untargetable is pretty powerful.
: > [{quoted}](name=VoraciousX,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0e4VaUfJ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T05:06:02.753+0000) > > They reworked stealth/camouflage to where IN BATTLE stealth is immune to all sight, unless it's TRUE SIGHT, which control wards do not give. Akali's stealth is IN BATTLE stealth, and always has been considered as such since the change. Pink wards/control wards DID NOT REVEAL her when this was changed. Literally all Akali has EVER needed was gunblade to kill someone. At least new Akali requires you to be good with the champion, unlike old Akali where ALL of her damage was unable to be dodged(Well except for maybe her E but the cases where she'd MISS with E would have to be so rare that you'd have to be a moron to miss with it due to the way she could get on top of you from a mile away). Also Diana can only dash TWICE, and she HAS TO HIT HER Q to use it twice. Akali could use hers 3 times, with no prerequisites. > > Honestly, even Akali's current shroud seems much more fair. It's not one big FILLED IN circle, it spreads out, and Akali is revealed for two entire seconds after attacking. Old Akali only had like a half a second. Dude i literally played against old akali milion times and i would always buy a pink ward to counter her and it worked. dunno wtf are you talking about. ALso diana doesn't need to hit her Q. late game, she just jumps adc and facerolls. pink wards were revealing her W
> [{quoted}](name=Heko The Man,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0e4VaUfJ,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T06:15:00.108+0000) > > Dude i literally played against old akali milion times and i would always buy a pink ward to counter her and it worked. dunno wtf are you talking about. > ALso diana doesn't need to hit her Q. late game, she just jumps adc and facerolls. > pink wards were revealing her W Twilight Shroud New Effect: Now teleports Akali to the cast location, placing Twilight Shroud at her original position. New Effect: Casting Twilight Shroud places Akali's other abilities on a 0.5 seconds global cooldown. New Effect: 250 units cast range. New Effect: Now retains Twilight Shroud's full bonus movement speed value until she leaves the area. Stealth reclassified as Invisibility. This is several patches BEFORE her rework. 6.22, her rework was in 8. 15.
: Riot is shifting the blame onto their employees
We don't actually know for sure if Riot even WAS sexually harassing women in the workplace. Every bit of information we've gotten has been from Kotaku reports. The only thing solid we've seen from Riot games was them saying they "failed us and would like to change". They didn't say they actually had people sexually harassing female employees and if I recall, one thing that was said by Riot was that if a female doesn't speak up about their opinions on things, they can't really do anything about it. The female has to take initiative(this was talking about women's ideas not being heard or something iirc). So hell, when they were making that post apologizing to US, they could have been thinking "Oh, we need to start doing all this SJW crap so people won't look at us like we're terrible people". If anything, all of this could be stemming from some lazy asses who sat on their phone all day posting on tumblr and twitter instead of doing their jobs who got fired(I know of one such individual on lolcows who may have been someone who was like this, and was actually very involved with a certain riot employee who got fired over this whole ordeal after the fact). Either way, if you sign a contract, you are legally required to follow the contract. Sure, whoever is wanting to sue MAY have been harassed, but we don't know that, so we shouldn't judge Riot's decision. Innocent until proven guilty, ya know. In addition, if you think you may EVER want to sue the company you work for, you shouldn't sign an agreement like that in the first place. If you think it's wrong to force you into arbitration, why sign instead of finding another job?
XDSK (EUNE)
: Katarina Voice
Her joke is REALLY terrible, but the voice actress needs to stay. I agree on her needing new voice lines, I'd like for her to get a skin with new voice lines as well. She doesn't have a single skin with new voice lines, and she has quite a few. Lux has like 2 or 3 with new voice lines. Someone else made a post about this a while back as well.
: > [{quoted}](name=VoraciousX,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0e4VaUfJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-11T05:01:10.764+0000) > > OLD Akali was too OP. At least you have to be at the top of your game to beat people with her now. Also, they removed that interaction with control wards long before she was reworked. Please don't try to bring back old Akali where she could literally kill you from a 4 flashes away. lol diana can do the same thing, she just presses R and you're deleted and unlike akali she has good early game. what interaction with control wards? wtf are you talking about? pink counters akali, everyone knows that.
> [{quoted}](name=Heko The Man,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0e4VaUfJ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T05:03:06.522+0000) > > lol diana can do the same thing, she just presses R and you're deleted and unlike akali she has good early game. what interaction with control wards? wtf are you talking about? pink counters akali, everyone knows that. They reworked stealth/camouflage to where IN BATTLE stealth is immune to all sight, unless it's TRUE SIGHT, which control wards do not give. Akali's stealth is IN BATTLE stealth, and always has been considered as such since the change. Pink wards/control wards DID NOT REVEAL her when this was changed. Literally all Akali has EVER needed was gunblade to kill someone. At least new Akali requires you to be good with the champion, unlike old Akali where ALL of her damage was unable to be dodged(Well except for maybe her E but the cases where she'd MISS with E would have to be so rare that you'd have to be a moron to miss with it due to the way she could get on top of you from a mile away). Also Diana can only dash TWICE, and she HAS TO HIT HER Q to use it twice. Akali could use hers 3 times, with no prerequisites. Honestly, even Akali's current shroud seems much more fair. It's not one big FILLED IN circle, it spreads out, and Akali is revealed for two entire seconds after attacking. Old Akali only had like a half a second.
: Riot needs to revert Akali and Irelia reworks
OLD Akali was too OP. At least you have to be at the top of your game to beat people with her now. Also, they removed that interaction with control wards long before she was reworked. Please don't try to bring back old Akali where she could literally kill you even if you were able to flash 4 times with a way to stay on top of you with no counterplay, while being able to use her passive without needing to land anything.
: > [{quoted}](name=VoraciousX,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEEJ12Qv,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T04:26:47.177+0000) > > Urgot's Shield lasts 4 seconds, Riven's lasts 1.5. Urgot's shield strength is .5x stronger than Riven's as well, and Riven's E CD is going to be 10 seconds instead of 6. Eh, you know Riven can basically spam her shield? Do you want one shield for a long time or simply two? I know which I would prefer. > Compare this now: Riven's shield lasts 1.5 seconds, so that's 8.5 second cooldown, Urgot's shield lasts 4 seconds, so that's a 10 second cooldown, meaning Riven only has a shield duration of 1.5 seconds longer than Urgot. No, the CD starts when they use it, how long it lasts doesn't matter, it doesn't start after it runs out, it starts when they use it. It is that f***** simple. > ALSO Riven and Urgot BOTH rush cleaver, and even if Riven had max rank E and Urgot had rank 1 E, with the SAME CDR(gonna use 0% as it'd be easier to calculate uptime), Urgot's shield would only be 4 seconds longer than Riven's. I dunno, I didn't do the math, but her is my math, Riven rushes Deaths Dance/Cleaver into SoS. Does Urgot do that? No, he doesn't So even if his CD was a few seconds lower, it doesn't matter at that point, because everyone who knows Rivens AA canceling can just perma shield. Also, if we gonna compare champions on that level, Urgot usses his only dash/mobility spell, so is more likely to get hit my spellshields. Now guess who is gonna play URF with infinite dashes, you know the answer? tldr: f*** Rivens interaction with SoS.
> [{quoted}](name=Laufplanke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEEJ12Qv,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T04:31:42.774+0000) > > Eh, you know Riven can basically spam her shield? Do you want one shield for a long time or simply two? I know which I would prefer. > Again, Riven's shield isn't gonna be able to be used multiple times in a fight anymore WITHOUT spear of shojin, which was EXACTLY my point. Also Riven is squishier, meaning she NEEDS THE SHIELD MORE THAN URGOT. Urgot literally builds a ton of health while having a HIGH SCALING SHIELD and damage. Why do you think Urgot is consistently a good top laner and has been pretty much since his rework? > No, the CD starts when they use it, how long it lasts doesn't matter, it doesn't start after it runs out, it starts when they use it. > It is that f***** simple. > EXACTLY, the CD starts when they use it, but the SHIELD lasts longer on Urgot than it does Riven. If the shield is STILL UP LONGER, then it's effectively not "on cooldown", since the shield is still friggin there. Riven's shield lasts 1.5 seconds, with the nerfs in PBE, that will be a shield every 8.5 seconds with 0% CDR. With Urgot on the same rank E with the same CDR, he will have a shield up every 10 seconds. So EFFECTIVELY A 1.5 SECOND LONGER CD. Understand yet? > I dunno, I didn't do the math, but her is my math, Riven rushes Deaths Dance/Cleaver into SoS. Does Urgot do that? No, he doesn't > So even if his CD was a few seconds lower, it doesn't matter at that point, because everyone who knows Rivens AA canceling can just perma shield. > No, he rushes Black Cleaver then Frozen Mallet, getting an extra 800 health out of the deal. AFTER WHICH he goes into one of two 10% CDR options, death's dance, or Righteous Glory. If he DOESN'T get Righteous Glory second, then he gets it last, he still ends up with 40% CDR. Fun Fact, there is 50% in CDR of options for Riven on her best builds. Guess how many there is for Urgot? 70% if you count Righteous Glory twice, as he has it in two different places. 60% if you only count individual items. Interesting right? > Also, if we gonna compare champions on that level, Urgot usses his only dash/mobility spell, so is more likely to get hit my spellshields. > Now guess who is gonna play URF with infinite dashes, you know the answer? > Riven can only dash as much as she auto attacks you with Spear of Shojin. Her Q is the length of 1 and a half dashes, and her E is the length of one dash. So yeah, she gets 2 dashes, for being significantly lower in HP than Urgot, with a significantly weaker shield. It's almost like they fulfill different roles huh. > tldr: f*** Rivens interaction with SoS. I agree, this is why I was complaining about why they nerfed RIVEN instead of CONQUERER OR REMOVED SPEAR OF SHOJIN. She wasn't the problem, those two things were a perfect storm for her. They could have simply made Conqueror not stack from auto attacks so that her early game wouldn't be so easy. Her stacking Conqueror so fast was one of her problems. Spear of Shojin is another, as it's a perfect item for her. Although I would say it's also a bit too perfect of an item for Jax as well.
: > [{quoted}](name=VoraciousX,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEEJ12Qv,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-11T04:04:33.812+0000) > > What's worse is they nerfed Riven's E ratio to where she pretty much needs this item now, when they could have nerfed Conqueror in a way where it didn't impact other champions much while impacting her just enough to where she wasn't broken. > > You can't use that excuse anymore. https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Urgot Urgot E CD is: 16 / 15.5 / 15 / 14.5 / 14 Riven E CD is: 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 She rushes CDR and maxes E second, he doesn't. Your argument just doesn't hold up.
> [{quoted}](name=Laufplanke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEEJ12Qv,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-11T04:09:56.194+0000) > > Urgot E CD is: 16 / 15.5 / 15 / 14.5 / 14 > Riven E CD is: 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 > > She rushes CDR and maxes E second, he doesn't. > Your argument just doesn't hold up. Urgot's Shield lasts 4 seconds, Riven's lasts 1.5. Urgot's shield strength is .5x stronger than Riven's as well, and Riven's E CD is going to be 10 seconds instead of 6. Compare this now: Riven's shield lasts 1.5 seconds, so that's 8.5 second cooldown, Urgot's shield lasts 4 seconds, so that's a 10 second cooldown, meaning Riven only has a shield cooldown of 1.5 seconds less than Urgot at max rank. ALSO Riven and Urgot BOTH rush cleaver, and even if Riven had max rank E and Urgot had rank 1 E, with the SAME CDR(gonna use 0% as it'd be easier to calculate uptime), Urgot's shield would only be 3.5 seconds longer than Riven's. This is of course with the PBE's changes, as that's what I was talking about. Also didn't realize they haven't nerfed her yet, but it's on the PBE and it's likely to stay. Also side note, EVERYONE WAS COMPLAINING about Riven having an AD shield with a 100% AD ratio, but Urgot gets a 150% AD ratio shield and no one loses their shit at all despite how tanky that sob is or how long the shield lasts.
: Wow, Spear of Shojin is absolutely the worst item this game has seen in terms of balance.
What's worse is they're nerfing Riven's E ratio to where she pretty much will need this item now, when they could have nerfed Conqueror in a way where it didn't impact other champions much while impacting her just enough to where she wasn't broken. > [{quoted}](name=Laufplanke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEEJ12Qv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-11T03:39:57.239+0000) > > {{champion:92}} 100% AD RATIO SHIELD > SHIELD > SHIELD > SHIELD > SHIELD You can't use that excuse anymore. https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Urgot
Rioter Comments
: Let’s stop kidding ourselves: Shyvana needs a full scale update the most - and it’s not even close.
I voted for Shyvana, I really think Fiddlesticks needed it more, but I'd love a more dragon-like take on Shyvana. I also think Mundo needed it more than both Fiddlesticks and Shyvana, but all I saw from their ideas on Mundo was "Buff Mundo", instead of making him less of a stat check champion, which all health regen champions are.
: not TOO long ago does not mean now. This game can change a ton in just a month's time. Yeah, challengers were taking him bot last year during the "no ADC" shenanigans. That means nothing now. And if they really want to maintain duo melee as a viable option, then they could just make it so that two _different_ items won't work in lane together, since AC and Spelltheif's already have built-in mechanics that prevent it-- both needing an ally to be taking the minions otherwise you lose out on a lot more gold.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Po4sgJ5T,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T17:30:12.644+0000) > > not TOO long ago does not mean now. This game can change a ton in just a month's time. > > Yeah, challengers were taking him bot last year during the "no ADC" shenanigans. That means nothing now. > > And if they really want to maintain duo melee as a viable option, then they could just make it so that two _different_ items won't work in lane together, since AC and Spelltheif's already have built-in mechanics that prevent it-- both needing an ally to be taking the minions otherwise you lose out on a lot more gold. Those other two items are generally better than relic shield though, or at least the champions who use those two items are better than the ones who use relic shield early game, allowing duo {{item:3303}} would just make duo mages more powerful. The reason relic shield is used double is not only because it works, but also because as a melee duo you are going to get bullied harder than anyone else. You're not bullied that much with {{item:3301}} {{item:3303}} users(ESPECIALLY {{item:3303}} users). Also Morde bot wasn't happening when mages were going bot. It was either shortly before or a decent amount of time after. Or he was the reason it started happening, I can't remember exactly but I remember him being bot was a big thing, so it wasn't when everyone was playing all kind of different things bot.
: Could Katarina get some type of survivability
This is exactly why I build Spirit Visage on Kat. People sometimes get frustrated because I have it, but they have to deal with it if I have to be in the middle of 5 champions who are going to try to blow me up the instant I go in. It's actually a pretty decent item on her, because it synergizes with gunblade, she takes less magic damage(which generally there's more magic damage than physical), and has more health so she has more potential to heal with. I'm sad they reworked Dark Harvest because I used to go DH with Minion Dematerializer(use it on cannons for a DH proc whenever you want so you can determine when you go in), lich bane, gunblade, Spirit Visage, Sterak's, and void staff/rabadons depending on what I needed. You could one shot any ADC while still being really tanky. People raged at me so hard for that.
: > [{quoted}](name=VoraciousX,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Po4sgJ5T,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-10T17:11:31.892+0000) > > That'd hurt current Morde bot though, since generally double relic is the way to go with a Morde bot, assuming you have a tank support, which you generally should. That setup was actually even SUGGESTED by Riot. ...and? He's definitely not going to be a bot laner any more with the rework. And the rework is about to finish. That setup was "suggested by Riot" **_four years ago,_** right when they did the juggernaut update. Taking him bot nowadays is basically trolling.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Po4sgJ5T,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T17:17:04.784+0000) > > ...and? > > He's definitely not going to be a bot laner any more with the rework. And the rework is about to finish. That setup was "suggested by Riot" **_four years ago,_** right when they did the juggernaut update. Taking him bot nowadays is basically trolling. I do recall not TOO long ago some challengers were taking him bot, and he was being strong there. So not sure how it's trolling. I'd also like to mention that some off meta bot laners like to go double relic because of the fact that they're melee and it helps them generate gold easier vs lane bully ADCs.
: Well, in general if a team can capitalize on the enemy ADC not getting any kills at all, then having better sustain will win a lot of the time. That's actually why they've clamped down so hard on adc lane sustain, like with the nerfs to Overheal and Relic Shield. Taking duo support, or more specifically Sona Taric since they both have shields and heals, is an extension of that. There's also the fact you get much more vision once they've both completed their missions, but that's more of a bonus. But it'll likely be hit in some way soon. My guess would be they're going to make it so support items can't stack in the vicinity of someone else with a support item.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Po4sgJ5T,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-10T17:08:41.493+0000) > > Well, in general if a team can capitalize on the enemy ADC not getting any kills at all, then having better sustain will win a lot of the time. That's actually why they've clamped down so hard on adc lane sustain, like with the nerfs to Overheal and Relic Shield. > > Taking duo support, or more specifically Sona Taric since they both have shields and heals, is an extension of that. There's also the fact you get much more vision once they've both completed their missions, but that's more of a bonus. > > But it'll likely be hit in some way soon. My guess would be they're going to make it so support items can't stack in the vicinity of someone else with a support item. That'd hurt current Morde bot though, since generally double relic is the way to go with a Morde bot, assuming you have a tank support, which you generally should. That setup was actually even SUGGESTED by Riot.
: > [{quoted}](name=Corrector1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vJvKjZ0o,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-06T14:42:54.654+0000) > > 43% is a very broad spectrum ranging between mains and newer experiences though. say if there was 4 people who play her and only one of those is a one trick god her winrate would be 25%. sometimes win rates dont matter unless they are from akali mains due to they dive DEEP into the kit to the point where its ridiculous. And again, as I said, of the top 5 ACTIVE Akali mains, she has a win rate of 54% AT MOST, or did. The highest one now is a 58%, but that only happened today. However mains of Azir have a highest win rate of 58% as well, but most of them have higher than 50% win rates overall on him, whereas most Akali mains have a 49-51% win rate, with 2 outliers being the one that has a 58% and one that has a 54%. A Kalista main has a 74% win rate. So I don't see how Akali is indestructible. For a better comparison, out of Kalista's top 5 mains, she has an average win rate of 60.2%. Out of Azir's 5 top mains, he has a 54.8% win rate, and out of Akali's 4 top mains(remember one has been inactive so his win rate doesn't count, but I'm taking average so it'll still be the same comparison), she has a 53.5% win rate. This is MUCH less than Kalista's 60.2% and more than 1% less than Azir's 54.8% win rate. So how is Akali the indestructible one? > [{quoted}](name=Karunamon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vJvKjZ0o,comment-id=000a0001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-06T15:32:32.187+0000) > > Then why is his pickrate so low? If he was the most popular champ NA, I'd expect a closer to 50% PR, when it's closer to 20%. Pika is actually right about Yasuo. Also, a 20% pick rate is extremely high, especially with his ban rate. Think about it, he's banned in 62.65% of games. So if we go by 100 games total, Yasuo is banned in 62 of them, if his pick rate is 20, that means he's picked in more than half of games he isn't banned in.
> [{quoted}](name=Corrector1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vJvKjZ0o,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-07T10:26:01.246+0000) > > i never seen a kalista main so i wouldnt know the cancer of having one vs me.... although i almost always see those experienced akali or yasuo or riven players who can 1v3 to 1v5ish (because enemy support just only buffing them mainly not actively attacking my team) despite not getting fed in lane and not having ANY form of mastery points. i really have a hard time seeing them basically 'injected' with champion knowledge for maximum damage combo outplay output basically a cyborg bot fused into the game even though HEY I GOT 0 MASTERY POINTS ON X champ THATS SUPPOSED TO BE COMPLICATED OR AT LEAST HAS MANY CONDITIONS TO ACHIEVE THAT DAMAGE SOMEHOW DOES THE WHOLE THING (presses 1000 buttons while avoiding a whole teams skillshots with ease) LESS THEN A SECOND also like profile level 27 or something. theres no human way that person can be a god at X champion at level 27 or so. even if that person practiced their heart out in practice tool similar to Karate Kid Montages there's still gotta be some human mistakes they should make frequently (which they dont leave any openings that a level 27 with 0 mastery champ should). Perhaps it's more that your team/you don't know how to deal with the champion you're facing. Especially since you're now mentioning players who haven't even played the champion hardly. I'd suggest playing the champion yourself to find out how to counter them more effectively if you don't know how to deal with them, and if your team doesn't, suggest things(items to build against them, things they can do to counter them, etc. A big Riven counter is rushing tabi for example. Yasuo would be to play especially safe levels 1-4 and when IN fights with him to move left or right when you think he's gonna Q you directly, and in the middle of fights if you have flash up use it to dodge his tornado if he's winning, Akali would be to avoid her threat range as much as possible, which is like 2 teemos in front of her, and avoid her E, and to use her skillshots against her if you have CC). Unless they're a smurf, if they have 0 mastery points they haven't mastered the champion, so there's no way this is even remotely the same thing and it's more of a lack of experience facing the champion, or just not knowing how to play against them.
Tamur (NA)
: So champions like {{champion:80}} ,{{champion:268}} ,{{champion:45}} ,{{champion:24}} , and {{champion:112}} are forever doomed to have their faces hidden from the world, because all people care about is Zed and Shen?
> [{quoted}](name=Tamur,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=XTVEeeOQ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-05-07T07:06:36.686+0000) > > So champions like {{champion:80}} ,{{champion:268}} ,{{champion:45}} ,{{champion:24}} , and {{champion:112}} are forever doomed to have their faces hidden from the world, because all people care about is Zed and Shen? I did say ALL masked champions in the title. Those are just the two main ones I'd like to see.
: 43% is a very broad spectrum ranging between mains and newer experiences though. say if there was 4 people who play her and only one of those is a one trick god her winrate would be 25%. sometimes win rates dont matter unless they are from akali mains due to they dive DEEP into the kit to the point where its ridiculous.
> [{quoted}](name=Corrector1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vJvKjZ0o,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-06T14:42:54.654+0000) > > 43% is a very broad spectrum ranging between mains and newer experiences though. say if there was 4 people who play her and only one of those is a one trick god her winrate would be 25%. sometimes win rates dont matter unless they are from akali mains due to they dive DEEP into the kit to the point where its ridiculous. And again, as I said, of the top 5 ACTIVE Akali mains, she has a win rate of 54% AT MOST, or did. The highest one now is a 58%, but that only happened today. However mains of Azir have a highest win rate of 58% as well, but most of them have higher than 50% win rates overall on him, whereas most Akali mains have a 49-51% win rate, with 2 outliers being the one that has a 58% and one that has a 54%. A Kalista main has a 74% win rate. So I don't see how Akali is indestructible. For a better comparison, out of Kalista's top 5 mains, she has an average win rate of 60.2%. Out of Azir's 5 top mains, he has a 54.8% win rate, and out of Akali's 4 top mains(remember one has been inactive so his win rate doesn't count, but I'm taking average so it'll still be the same comparison), she has a 53.5% win rate. This is MUCH less than Kalista's 60.2% and more than 1% less than Azir's 54.8% win rate. So how is Akali the indestructible one? > [{quoted}](name=Karunamon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vJvKjZ0o,comment-id=000a0001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-06T15:32:32.187+0000) > > Then why is his pickrate so low? If he was the most popular champ NA, I'd expect a closer to 50% PR, when it's closer to 20%. Pika is actually right about Yasuo. Also, a 20% pick rate is extremely high, especially with his ban rate. Think about it, he's banned in 62.65% of games. So if we go by 100 games total, Yasuo is banned in 62 of them, if his pick rate is 20, that means he's picked in more than half of games he isn't banned in.
NiamhNyx (NA)
: ... i mean, thats flex queue for you.
> [{quoted}](name=NiamhNyx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nAmbT9p3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-06T08:11:31.660+0000) > > ... i mean, thats flex queue for you. That's the point, no one takes Flex Queue seriously anyways, so why not make it "premade normal draft" whereas normal draft could only have 2 at most players queued together.
: as a jhin main i do not like this idea xD also galaxy slayer zed shows him without his mask on i guess. Or at least the animation when logging in to the client showed him without his mask.
> [{quoted}](name=CherryBlossomTea,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=XTVEeeOQ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-05-06T16:47:45.696+0000) > > as a jhin main i do not like this idea xD > > also galaxy slayer zed shows him without his mask on i guess. Or at least the animation when logging in to the client showed him without his mask. That's James Charles disguising himself as Zed, that's not Zed! I mean I'm pretty sure Zed isn't a makeup guru in canon.
Rioter Comments
: Higher ranks can react faster/better to one tricks akali types. Let's say you do make 1 itty bitty mistake vs one of those one tricks I bet you they would use 1000 buttons/dashes just to make you lose trade guaranteed where again if you retreat you just making it worse for yourself. So all that's left is to accept the fact where your forced to feed her in such games are pretty much coinfliped. Now if your under tower she can still use her. Q auto 'range' (where she abuses it so much it should be her auto attack) to avoid aggro and bully a lane bully for no logical reasoning possible. It's almost as if she forces you to eat your feces and thank her for the idea. Now that's exactly how I feel about it. Wanna know the worst part of it? Late game level 18 full build she can close to infinitely attack someone with her never ending kit (tested in practice tool).
> [{quoted}](name=Corrector1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vJvKjZ0o,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-06T05:12:47.814+0000) > > Higher ranks can react faster/better to one tricks akali types. Let's say you do make 1 itty bitty mistake vs one of those one tricks I bet you they would use 1000 buttons/dashes just to make you lose trade guaranteed where again if you retreat you just making it worse for yourself. So all that's left is to accept the fact where your forced to feed her in such games are pretty much coinfliped. > > Now if your under tower she can still use her. Q auto 'range' (where she abuses it so much it should be her auto attack) to avoid aggro and bully a lane bully for no logical reasoning possible. > > It's almost as if she forces you to eat your feces and thank her for the idea. Now that's exactly how I feel about it. Wanna know the worst part of it? Late game level 18 full build she can close to infinitely attack someone with her never ending kit (tested in practice tool). But you said if someone mastered her, they were indestructible, and yet the point remains that across EVERY SINGLE RANK her win rate is 43%. That doesn't sound so indestructible when she's losing more than she's winning even on people who main her.
: challangers arent human though their reflexes/info processing are cyborg-like which are beyond mere humans, thats why she is according to data challanger akali is 40%. fizz has pretty much one flashlike E ability its certainly no LC$ 1 million button pressing speed 0 counterplay movement while his Q is mainly a all in ability unless its used as a extremely expensive poke attack followed to retreat e.
> [{quoted}](name=Corrector1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vJvKjZ0o,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-06T00:46:40.663+0000) > > challangers arent human though their reflexes/info processing are cyborg-like which are beyond mere humans, thats why she is according to data challanger akali is 40%. fizz has pretty much one flashlike E ability its certainly no LC$ 1 million button pressing speed 0 counterplay movement while his Q is mainly a all in ability unless its used as a extremely expensive poke attack followed to retreat e. Grandmaster Akali has a 47.6% win rate. Master has a 46% win rate, Diamond has a 46.5% win rate, Plat has a 44% win rate, and it just keeps going down. Her average win rate across ALL ranks is 43%, and as I said, the top Akali players on OP.GG all have bad or average win rates, the ones that have been active within this month at least. Every one of them has a much higher win rate on another champion. How is she indestructible if she's reaching AT MOST a 50% win rate on 2 people in NA?
: Im up for a challenge i need some champs that are challenging
> [{quoted}](name=SaltyStranger5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=McLEyt1k,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T23:03:14.640+0000) > > Im up for a challenge i need some champs that are challenging Cheap junglers aren't generally challenging, because the cheap ones were made earlier and most are designed to be entry level champions.
: She was fine before her VISUAL UPDATE- she was not reworked. Get your facts straight. She got one tiny R buff with that. She was only more popular because of the visual- she was fine in play. There was no reason TO nerf her- she was fine with her values on W and E for YEARS but all of a sudden she's played more because of a new visual and they slap her with nerfs. Winrate doesn't always speak for a champ's being strong/weak. Banrate is only high because she's a counter to the hook supports, not because of being strong (which she wasn't). Playrate just high because of visual update. She did not need nerfs of any sort.
> [{quoted}](name=MiracleMorg94,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YbETJXaU,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2019-05-01T15:13:48.290+0000) > > She was fine before her VISUAL UPDATE- she was not reworked. Get your facts straight. She got one tiny R buff with that. > > She was only more popular because of the visual- she was fine in play. There was no reason TO nerf her- she was fine with her values on W and E for YEARS but all of a sudden she's played more because of a new visual and they slap her with nerfs. > > Winrate doesn't always speak for a champ's being strong/weak. Banrate is only high because she's a counter to the hook supports, not because of being strong (which she wasn't). Playrate just high because of visual update. > > She did not need nerfs of any sort. Morgana was actually the top support when she got her visual update according to OP.GG. I checked when she got those buffs to her W and move speed on R on the PBE(She DID get a buff to her W during that "rework", and not just missing health damage. It was slight, but it was a buff). I even asked if we should be giving buffs to someone who was at the top of the list of supports currently, even winning more against previous counters, but it was deleted because it was about "balance instead of feedback of the changes".
: What is the best cheapest jungler
Warwick I believe. Or Master Yi. I think they're 450.
Pika Fox (NA)
: At this point, youre just talking out your ass and dont know how the champion even works. Vi has E still, auto e auto will 1shot yuumi with an ADC build. She doesnt even need Q or R. Her E WILL NOT HEAL 25% HP WITH 0 AP. Will. Not. 2 charges of minimal heals just will not sustain you. Zooming "from ally to ally" does nothing for you. Youre the ADC, if youre not doing damage, youre not doing your job. 500 range is physically not enough for an ADC to function unless you get something for that range. Yuumi does not have anything that warrants her being an ADC with 0 range.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KTb7qYnf,comment-id=000900000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T20:13:22.830+0000) > > At this point, youre just talking out your ass and dont know how the champion even works. > > Vi has E still, auto e auto will 1shot yuumi with an ADC build. She doesnt even need Q or R. > > Her E WILL NOT HEAL 25% HP WITH 0 AP. Will. Not. 2 charges of minimal heals just will not sustain you. > > Zooming "from ally to ally" does nothing for you. Youre the ADC, if youre not doing damage, youre not doing your job. > > 500 range is physically not enough for an ADC to function unless you get something for that range. Yuumi does not have anything that warrants her being an ADC with 0 range. Vi has to be right on top of you to use E, and she will not kill you with just one E>auto. That's ridiculous to assume that one ability from Vi will take 100% of your health. ADCs dodge things all the time without attacking, it's how they survive. It's called kiting.
: Caps should be caps.
As Anu3isll said, keystones have existed for far longer than Spear of Shojin so it feels kinda wrong to only mention this NOW. However I agree Spear of Shojin shouldn't have existed. But now that Riven's getting nerfed, I feel like she'll depend on Spear of Shojin too much. If they had removed auto attacks from stacking Conqueror, she would've been fine and they could change Spear of Shojin, or remove it. But now I feel like it'll be a necessity on her. As for Guinsoos, it USED to be balanced. The problem is that they've changed it so much because they want it to buff Yi, that it buffs everyone else too much as well. Back when it just gave you AD, AP, and attack speed, it was totally balanced. No one used it except for champions like Varus/Kogmaw, and Yi would OCCASIONALLY build it, not every game. The problem is they're buffing onhits specifically for Yi's sake and making guinsoo's so overpowered that people think "Why wouldn't I take this?".
Warpes (NA)
: you miss the point. he's in a really god awful spot right now top lane and damage is the ONLY viable thing he can do. he literally CAN'T build tank, or even 'tanky'. it has to be damage, and nothing else... and even that's still not enough to get him out of the 43rd spot of top lane champs that he's in... even karthus, neeko, rengar, yasuo, and vayne, among others, are in (dramatically) better places top lane than singed is.. and those champs can (are meant to) be played elsewhere. whereas singed can only go top.
> [{quoted}](name=Warpes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ejlr11We,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-05T17:54:29.681+0000) > > you miss the point. he's in a really god awful spot right now top lane and damage is the ONLY viable thing he can do. he literally CAN'T build tank, or even 'tanky'. it has to be damage, and nothing else... and even that's still not enough to get him out of the 43rd spot of top lane champs that he's in... > > even karthus, neeko, rengar, yasuo, and vayne, among others, are in (dramatically) better places top lane than singed is.. and those champs can (are meant to) be played elsewhere. whereas singed can only go top. Whenever I play Singed, I prefer to play him full AP and I generally do quite well. Playing Singed as a tank or "bruiser" is honestly BS and I've always said he needs to be a glass cannon because of how fast he moves and how much damage his poison does. Also Singed has a 51.6% win rate on U.GG, and he's STILL building tanky. Confused on why he needs buffs. He has a positive win rate across ALL ranks(in fact his "ALL RANKS" win rate is 51.1%).
: true but her kit (if mastered of course) makes you pretty much indestructible to almost every assault imaginable to the point where its totally not fair to the enemy player. i mean she has like 3 flashes e or e backward (then the choice of should i attack in that sequence that outlives a veigars cage lifetime) and her double ult. also her Q slow pretty much doesnt allow you to run away to the point that part is toxic that is auto attack range. did you see how many (million buttons) he pressed went through walls and instant killed that morgana through the wall with ult through and E then kill.... total "counterplayable" as soon as your seen by a akali main with a gunblade they can easily bumrush you with their combo generating attacks to the point you should just stand still and let them kill you. lets face it lol by walking away your just making it worse.
> [{quoted}](name=Corrector1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vJvKjZ0o,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T11:44:01.112+0000) > > true but her kit (if mastered of course) makes you pretty much indestructible to almost every assault imaginable to the point where its totally not fair to the enemy player. i mean she has like 3 flashes e or e backward (then the choice of should i attack in that sequence that outlives a veigars cage lifetime) and her double ult. also her Q slow pretty much doesnt allow you to run away to the point that part is toxic that is auto attack range. did you see how many (million buttons) he pressed went through walls and instant killed that morgana through the wall with ult through and E then kill.... total "counterplayable" as soon as your seen by a akali main with a gunblade they can easily bumrush you with their combo generating attacks to the point you should just stand still and let them kill you. lets face it lol by walking away your just making it worse. You say that, but in Challenger Akali has a 40% win rate. Looking at the top Akali player on op.gg, he has exactly a 50% win rate. Looking at the top 5, ONE has a 64% win rate on her, and he appears to have gone inactive as his last game was on 4/27/2019 and he's level 54. So saying this, I have to disagree with you. The highest outside of that one has a 55% win rate with her, and ALL of them have higher win rates on other champions. As for the 3 flashes argument. Fizz has existed for most of League's history, and he has 2 flashes basically. Ezreal has always had a flash, Lucian can flash at least twice in a fight without using the summoner, Ahri has 3 flashes, though they're on her ultimate(then again 2 of Akali's are ALSO on her ultimate), Irelia can flash as much as she wants as long as she has a minion and kills it, Kindred has a really low cooldown flash, Renekton has 2, Tryndamere has one that lowers in cooldown the more he whacks things, and considering you never wanna be in a Tryndamere's face, he can use it to hunt you down from across the map practically. Rengar has as many flashes as wants as long as a target is near a bush, or he has ult. Do you see how this whole "multiple flashes" argument holds no water yet?
Pika Fox (NA)
: Vi is still in your face, the moment you W off youre dead. You cant spam W, it does have a CD. She is also exceptionally squishy. Youre now literally stuck on the champion until they get away, or they die. Most likely, theyre dead, because its a literal 4v5 because you think hard CCing yourself is a good idea and strategy on a champion with no auto buffs and no fucking attack range.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KTb7qYnf,comment-id=0009000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T15:19:23.617+0000) > > Vi is still in your face, the moment you W off youre dead. You cant spam W, it does have a CD. She is also exceptionally squishy. Youre now literally stuck on the champion until they get away, or they die. Most likely, theyre dead, because its a literal 4v5 because you think hard CCing yourself is a good idea and strategy on a champion with no auto buffs and no fucking attack range. Late game it doesn't have a cooldown, and again, VI doesn't have any abilities up so she's basically a minion. Go into practice tool, spawn 3 ally dummies, and watch yourself zoom from ally to ally every second. It's ridiculous. And again, her heal is based on missing health. I've seen a lot of heals pulled out her ass that just heal her up to 25% of her max health just from one heal, and she gets 2 charges. Not only that, an ADC Yuumi would definitely run lifesteal as well. Your "hard CCing yourself" would only be used to dodge abilities, and your attack range wouldn't matter because you can hop on your tank, hop off to get closer, and then start autoing within your 500 range. After that, if you see something that's gonna CC you, you can hop back on to dodge it, then hop right back off. It's basically free kiting.
Pika Fox (NA)
: If youre constantly pressing W, youre not doing your job. Your team automatically loses the fight because their main source of tank busting is too busy doing literally nothing. GG easy game, easy farm, easy life. Seriously, shes not going to see much play outside of iron as an ADC, other than the occasional "wtf" matchup. Being untargetable literally doesnt matter if it also means youre not doing anything yourself. And the moment she leaves the champion she is dead. You press W, its now a 4v5. You have no AP, and as the ADC you are supposed to be the team's glass cannon. A good 1/3 the teams total damage should be on you, and youre now literally incapable of supplying it, and your support abilities are near useless. The enemy gets to advance for free and your team has no recourse other than to lose the fight immediately.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KTb7qYnf,comment-id=00090000000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-05T03:54:28.320+0000) > > If youre constantly pressing W, youre not doing your job. Your team automatically loses the fight because their main source of tank busting is too busy doing literally nothing. GG easy game, easy farm, easy life. > > Seriously, shes not going to see much play outside of iron as an ADC, other than the occasional "wtf" matchup. > > Being untargetable literally doesnt matter if it also means youre not doing anything yourself. And the moment she leaves the champion she is dead. > > You press W, its now a 4v5. You have no AP, and as the ADC you are supposed to be the team's glass cannon. A good 1/3 the teams total damage should be on you, and youre now literally incapable of supplying it, and your support abilities are near useless. The enemy gets to advance for free and your team has no recourse other than to lose the fight immediately. Except for the fact that the Vi just tried to Q to close the gap>ult you, and you hopped on the nearest champion, avoiding it entirely. Now Vi's Q and R are both on cooldown and you have free reign to auto attack to your heart's content. How are you dead when you have a reverse Tahm W any time you want? Lux Q? Dodge with W, Thresh Q? Dodge, Blitz Q? Dodge. Morg Q? Dodge. It doesn't matter what you throw at her, she has the ability to dodge it as long as it isn't targeted. The only ADCs who would beat her are ones that innate damage like Draven, early game champions who would stop her from getting started because she'd rely on items purely. Her spells are also not any more crap than they would be as support. Why? Because her heal is the only real thing that matters as support OR AD, and it's got missing health scaling, making it not matter what you build. The damage on her Q and R suck no matter what you build, and the heal is good no matter what you build because missing health.
Rioter Comments
: Remember you can enjoy the characters without playing the game.
You just made me look up images of Kayn on Bing and I found a really steamy one with Zed shirtless putting his mask on Kayn with his hand on his cheek and saying it really suits him{{sticker:sg-jinx}} ....also I really want this as a skin now... https://78.media.tumblr.com/0acbd0fde6702ffc0e6f0443ccdb5071/tumblr_p4ipvkBUat1uuytcno1_1280.png
Pika Fox (NA)
: Her range is too garbage and her defenses are essentially self CC. Shell be abused in the LCS as free exp and gold for people dumb enough to play it. The moment she leaves W, she dies. The moment shes in range to auto, she needs to W out. Shes too squishy to be played AD, AP works because she can literally spend the game attached and not care, only needing to auto to proc passive.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KTb7qYnf,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2019-05-04T15:35:17.822+0000) > > Her range is too garbage and her defenses are essentially self CC. Shell be abused in the LCS as free exp and gold for people dumb enough to play it. The moment she leaves W, she dies. The moment shes in range to auto, she needs to W out. Shes too squishy to be played AD, AP works because she can literally spend the game attached and not care, only needing to auto to proc passive. Her range actually isn't a problem because she can hop from champion to champion to avoid CC, allowing her to hop in and out of fights when she needs to. This means she can stay as close as she wants pretty much, unless she's facing someone like a Draven she'll likely be really good as an ADC. Having a tank support means she can be close in fights without having to worry much at all.
Symor11 (NA)
: flat out incorrect lol zed early game damage was alwasy weak but his late game was always crazy. his damage was to costly he was forced to use his mobility as a way to output damage and even then his weq combo did less damage then a kassadin full rotation pre 6 which is absurd
> [{quoted}](name=Symor11,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PrtVRKqt,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-04T15:19:43.583+0000) > > flat out incorrect lol zed early game damage was alwasy weak but his late game was always crazy. his damage was to costly he was forced to use his mobility as a way to output damage and even then his weq combo did less damage then a kassadin full rotation pre 6 which is absurd Kassadin's full rotation pre-6 with 100 AP: 475. That's more than half someone's HP at level 5, and that's BAD? At least Kassadin has to work much harder to land a full combo as he's melee and doesn't have a dash or much range pre-6. You're also probably not counting autos, since ya know, Zed has that whole "if enemy is below 30% health, he does more damage to them with his auto" and he builds AD so his autos would hurt more outside of Kassadin using W. Zed has never felt weak to fight in the early game. Generally it's a "whoever fucks up first wins the lane entirely" whenever I faced him, and his poke was always stronger than mine, generally because his poke is his entire WEQ, whereas my poke was a simple Q.
Done25 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=VoraciousX,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPniWAsV,comment-id=00000005,timestamp=2019-05-04T02:54:37.679+0000) > > Tell that to the Yuumi I just played in Training Mode while I was under tower for a good over 20 shots with full AP at level 18. She's not weak at all, she can literally buff other champions while being untargetable, while ALSO using her abilities while untargetable. Late game she can jump all over the place, with no mana costs, every second. Her AP scalings may not be huge, but that alone makes her extremely powerful. Not to mention her heal doesn't even need AP, since it also has missing health scaling. Right. Here's the problem though with that though: {{champion:53}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:111}} Have fun watching Yuumi hit level six while being 0/3/0, or worse. No one cares what she can do in training mode at level 18 with infinite gold. She hits like a wet noodle in lane and has zero peel beyond her 14 second CD speed boost.
> [{quoted}](name=Done25,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPniWAsV,comment-id=000000050000,timestamp=2019-05-04T04:18:05.522+0000) > > Right. Here's the problem though with that though: {{champion:53}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:111}} Have fun watching Yuumi hit level six while being 0/3/0, or worse. No one cares what she can do in training mode at level 18 with infinite gold. She hits like a wet noodle in lane and has zero peel beyond her 14 second CD speed boost. Yeah but an ADC Yuumi can avoid being hit while having a tanky support, and because her scaling on her heal doesn't matter(due to having missing HP scaling), this is likely the direction Yuumi is going to go before being nerfed. Her W definitely needs a cooldown increase. Sure, her Q COULD use better AP scaling, but thinking about it from the position of "she's a support so she's not supposed to be dealing much damage from a near guaranteed hit ability if she's latched onto someone and she grants free damage to whoever she's latched onto", I think she'll fine. Also, most champions have counters. Hers could simply be tanks. I mean you could just stay attached to your ADC forever since there's no reason to NOT be, so the only time you'd die is if your ADC died and you couldn't get away. > [{quoted}](name=ninjaroxas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pPniWAsV,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-03T18:14:36.180+0000) > > Using your logic all adcs should be reworked because all they do is right click the enemy and act like they're doing gods work They kinda do imo. The ADC rework was kind of a failure really. It didn't differentiate them as much as they should have. Jhin, MF, Lucian, and Ezreal are the only real UNIQUE ADCs. Well, and Quinn/Graves. I like Jinx and all, but she's one of the most cookie cutter ADCs in the game. Minigun FEELS fun, but it's really just right clicking faster than others.
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VoraciousX

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