Blåsigt (NA)
: Not to be glib, but toxicity ruins the gaming experience for the majority of players. Why should that be tolerated? Also, I think that people are so accustomed to being being psychotic jerks on the internet, that they are surprised when they are held accountable. Check yourself before you ban yourself, I guess.
I'm not asking for tolerance. Also what do you categorize as psychotic. My definition is deluded children expecting perfect behavior 100% of the time. If you can't handle one or two curse words and some passive aggression AND can't be bothered to use the chat filter then sorry but that's starting to sound like psychotic to me.
mack9112 (NA)
: In what social situation would you be allowed to be loud rude and belligerent where you had to share the same space as someone else ? If you walked up to me and verbally abused me in the street I can just walk away. If you walked up to someone and was loud rude and belligerent while say at work or a store or a restaurant even a club you will be asked to leave which is exactly what happens in league. If you want to be verbally abusive in league you will be asked to leave aka banned. You continue to act like toxicity is an ok thing to be in any setting but it simply is not. In life you have to learn to treat others with respect and league will be no different. Toxicity exists from people unable to control there emotions so they turn to irrational responses and that kind of behaviour has to be corrected not ignored and shoved in a corner to fester.
Actually most social settings are more tolerant than league and in many teams, teammates occasionally don't get along. It's normal. I see players cursing at each other in professional sports all the time. Also yes, there definitely are degrees of toxicity...are you being serious? There is a clear difference between someone being racist and someone using the word "stupid." That's just one example. When you try to force the categorization to be binary that's exactly how you end up with a bullshit sensitive system where you have to be on your best behavior and any mild offenses beyond that are considered world-ending sins or some garbage.
: Hey! Morde's writer here. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts! A couple thoughts to share back. First, know that with any champion rework, we first seek to understand as deeply as possible what makes a champion great, what excites players about that champion, and what are the core essences that define who that champion is. From there, we set out to craft their place in wider Runeterra. Any change has the potential to be painful. Know that the folks on the team are all highly passionate players and story geeks to the Nth degree; no change was made lightly, and no expansion or shifted emphasis was done without heavy thought and robust discussion. One of the things I most appreciate about being at Riot is the space and time we give projects to do things as right as possible. Do we miss the mark sometimes? Well, to be human is to err. (Unless you're Mordekaiser. Then you just cease being human. :P) But I am grateful to have teams who are super passionate and knowledgeable all working to craft something to share that excites us and, we hope, the players that love this content. Onto some Morde specific thoughts: 1) Mordekaiser is an extremely accomplished necromancer - a soul of iron will and arcane power, and a warlord of deep intellect. Mordekaiser defied death by sheer force of will - a feat literally no other mortal on Runeterra had accomplished. The ghosts of the Shadow Isles are in the living realm because of a magical catastrophe; Mordekaiser _refused to accept the reality around him_. He gained necromantic powers in the death realm by listening to the maddening whispers of souls and *deciphering an unspoken language* over untold time, teaching himself Ochnun. (I barely learned some broken Spanish after 4 years of studying, so, uh, there's that.) Through those profane whispers, he also figured out how to speak across the veil of death and deceive mortals into thinking they could bring him back and bind him to their will - only to slaughter them all. Once returned, he didn't kill without a plan, despite what his enemies thought: > To his foes, it seemed he cared only for massacre and destruction. Entire generations perished under his relentless campaigns. > However, there was far more to Mordekaiser’s plan. He raised the Immortal Bastion at the center of his empire; while most assumed it was merely a seat of power, some came to know the secrets it held. Mordekaiser hungered for all the forbidden knowledge of spirits and death, and a true understanding of the realm… or realms… beyond. Mordekaiser sought out more arcane knowledge about the dead and about spirits, growing his necromantic powers while doing what he did best in his first life - conquering - all to serve his bigger purpose. He also built an impossible physical monument to his power that has secrets yet untold. And all of that empowered him to harvest souls, grow his necromantic power, and build an army of spirits bound to his will. It takes a necromancer of some power to exert such control. Also, Mordekaiser's rebuke of death was so thorough that he learned how to forge his own afterlife and realm. He is a necromancer not bound to physical totems or phylacteries, but has managed to reject the very cycle of life and death that seemed his destiny. 2) Mordekaiser is the warlord that inspired the entire Noxian empire. Take a look at his quote: "Destiny. Domination. Deceit." You might find it maps to the Noxian / Trifarix principles of strength: "Vision, Might, Guile." Consciously or not, Mordekaiser's legacy spawned an entire culture that emulated his conquests and his philosophies. Yet to him, Noxians are a watered down imitation of his previous glory. At the same time, to every day Noxians, his legacy as a conqueror is of mythic proportions - legends so big, they are hard to believe as history. (A real world comparison is the Romulus and Remus mythos around the founding of Rome.) 3) Mordekaiser is an unstoppable threat and a major force that looms over Runeterra. His first return, when his necromantic powers were new, resulted in a massive period of tyrannical rule that took both betrayal from within and united enemies from without to stop him. Now, he has amassed an army of souls, collected powerful arcane knowledge, and has plans and machinations in place... 4) There was a lot of discussion that led to Morde no longer being associated with the Shadow Isles. It was not a decision we made lightly. In fact, I originally argued against it, but came to agree with our narrative lead and lead editor on why it is the stronger story choice. Ultimately, we made the call due to a number of factors: **Death magic and necromancers exist beyond the Shadow Isles.** Runeterra is a big place, with a long history. The Shadow Isles was just one (albeit enormous) cataclysmic event that caused a specific area of Runeterra to become frozen in time, and to have a very specific form of undeath permeate the land. Ultimately, Mordekaiser's old connection to Shadow Isles felt primarily driven by a feeling that we had to shoehorn him into our "ghost faction". In our current storytelling efforts, we're interested in expanding our factions out beyond some of those wide (and as a result flat) characterizations that were made in years past. Another great example of this is how Demacia is more than just "the good guys" faction, as seen in how they deal with their relationship to magic, brought to the forefront with Sylas and Lux's story (shameless comic plug here - go read it!). **Questions of geography / narrative complexity** In terms of our geography, Shadow Isles is far flung from where the Immortal Bastion is. (Yay, Runeterra Map!) While I loved the idea that it took taking Morde's remains across the world to prevent him from returning, ultimately it felt honoring Morde's connections to the Immortal Bastion yielded more rich storytelling space. It also simplified a narrative beat in his backstory, allowing me to zero in on his arc and agency, rather than a moment of denied choice where outside forces moved him, and then an outside cataclysm happened to bring him back. **I wanted Mordekaiser to shed all mortal weakness.** A big guiding star for me was the question, "what makes Morde metal and terrifying and unique?" How do we take "necromantic warlord" and push him to an 11? One answer that excited us - rather than having a physical weakness of his mortal remains, what if he shed just about everything that made him remotely human? To me, his title, "The Iron Revenant," served a lot of inspiration in this regard, and further cemented the pivot away from his remains being a major weakness or vulnerability. 5) For a character like Mordekaiser, who spans massive swaths of Runeterra's timeline and history, his story has large impacts on larger reaching histories and stories we are setting up to tell. Clarifying and focusing Mordekaiser's story in allows us to help make greater sense of many other characters and champs. Some stories are just subtle hints right now, breadcrumbs that I can't wait to explore more fully in other outlets than just Mordekaiser's bio. This leads to some more general thoughts in regards to writing for Riot and League: 6) A huge challenge of being a narrative writer on League of Legends is the space in which we get to tell the story of a champion. In game, the main narrative outlet is a champ's voiceover script - a very specific set of lines, with very tight gameplay constraints on length. It definitely has its strengths and weaknesses as a storytelling expression. Out of game, we have a champ's biography and color story. A bio is, by its nature, more summary than story, more exposition told as evocatively as possible than scene-driven in depth storytelling. Our color stories are also a very specific length, and are crafted to give a very specific snapshot of the champion in action. With a champ that's larger than life like Mordekaiser, this means that there's much that remains untold in full, many details that must be summarized, and TONS of story space that is ripe for deeper exploration in future storytelling endeavors. And honestly, that's part of the joy as well - leaving tantalizing questions for players to ask, to explore, to theorize, and to discover. For now, I have to leave Mordekaiser with his Bio, VO, and color story. But if players are excited to learn more about his history, I hope we'll have more opportunities to expand and explore as we continue to strive as a narrative team to help move Runeterra's events forward in time. Whew, this got quite long - apologies! I hope these thoughts were interesting, and helped to answer a bit of the question "why did his lore have to change?" as well as address some of your feelings that he isn't the epic, metal champ he was! Thanks for reading and caring about Mordekaiser, this game, and our world and story as much as you do, and sharing that with us. :)
You guys really really reaaaaallllly need to give lore fans a huge timeline that we can reference. For example, what did Runeterra look like during Morde's first conquest? Would we recognize anything about the Runeterra that Morde ravaged during his first campaign or did his reign predate even ancient empires like Shurima, Icathia, Mount Targon etc?
: It's all about your intent and usage of such turns of phrase. I don't flame in general, but I get pissed and use generous amounts of swearing. SOOO since I've never been so much as warned in the last 6 seasons, I think you're lying.
You use "generous amounts of swearing" and get to run around scot-free sitting on your high horse pretending to be better than me while I am less of an offender yet get chat restrictions all the time. Proof that the system is completely f#$%ed and that most of the people criticizing me are disgusting hypocrites. You refuse to accept what I am saying because you don't want to admit that the "toxic" guy might actually have a point. I'll leave a chat log that caused me to get penalized and you can decide if it's really so evil. Keep in mind most of the things I was saying was responding to other players raging at me. I wasn't provoking anyone. Even the first and only curse I said in that game was a response to someone raging at me for doing bad. The context is as follows: I revieved no ganks and did poorly against a Darius (I pinged for help on multiple occasions). They other lanes got ganks all game and still managed to feed yet they only placed blame on me. At the end of the day I was the only one who made any progress that game by taking towers. All they did was complain. Yet I get slammed for a single curse word. Kinda makes you wonder why the chat filter even exists. Pre-Game VoydHunter: top VoydHunter: top VoydHunter: top VoydHunter: top In-Game VoydHunter: yo ryze got some moves VoydHunter: im pleasantly surprised VoydHunter: pshhh VoydHunter: jax got better killing moves VoydHunter: master of arms VoydHunter: but ryze = master of dance VoydHunter: go fuck yourself VoydHunter: o u want help? VoydHunter: ty VoydHunter: :D VoydHunter: its normals VoydHunter: get over it VoydHunter: no VoydHunter: stop complaining and play VoydHunter: im not throwing im farming VoydHunter: throwing is when yur winning then mess it up VoydHunter: i was never winning VoydHunter: plus u never ganked VoydHunter: so thx for that VoydHunter: k VoydHunter: so dont gank VoydHunter: whats yur point exactly VoydHunter: eyyy maybe should have ganked the darius eh VoydHunter: yw taliyah VoydHunter: im not trolling im just having a bad game VoydHunter: these children are just salty as hell VoydHunter: i'm the only one on this team to get a tower VoydHunter: how is that for trolling VoydHunter: 0/9 VoydHunter: lmfao VoydHunter: yur 0/9 and talking VoydHunter: lmfao VoydHunter: XD VoydHunter: new level of r%%%%%ation VoydHunter: die for what VoydHunter: i got a tower VoydHunter: u got nothing VoydHunter: yw taliyah VoydHunter: now how about each of you get a tower then u can call me noob again VoydHunter: the r%%%%% got a tower but the geniuses couldnt do anything all game VoydHunter: and i did it without ganks from this hateful jax VoydHunter: u guys got all the ganks and still nothing VoydHunter: pathetic VoydHunter: lmao VoydHunter: LOL VoydHunter: he didnt gank once VoydHunter: ty taliyah Post-Game VoydHunter: u forgot to honor me guys
Infernape (EUW)
: Goes to show, Riot's own skin tiers don't make sense. What's the difference between Birdio that is 975 and Pizza Delivery Sivir that is 1350? They both have new models, new VFX, a recall, new sounds and Birdio even has an entirely new dance. Aside from that, them giving Infernal VFX (it's literally a copy paste of Pentakill's VFX), when it's a 520 shouldn't have happened when Lord Morde is 975. Either Riot needs to stick to their own skin tier criteria and give it VFX at least or they need to lower the cost of Lord Morde.
: Riot, if you're not going to put all the effort into updating old skins to match their price...
I noticed this for a bunch of champions. Malphite has some changes to vfx on the pbe and most of the skins new vfx looks amazing but you look at mecha malphite and almost nothing has changed. Very lazy work for a skin that's not so cheap. Same issue with Lord Mord in the mordekaiser rework. It's a 975rp skin yet his vfx is the same as base. Meanwhile, infernal morde (a 520 rp skin) gets a full vfx overhaul. How the hell does that make any sense?!?! The whole thing gives me much less incentive to buy skins if they are just going to be irrelevant later on.
: If you used on word of profanity, ONCE, then sure you'd be right, that'd be "insane." But I run a family friendly establishment and if you wont stop spouting profanity endlessly, then yeah out the door you go.
I've been nailed for only using one swear word; that's not an exaggeration. I've seen others get hammered for 0 swear words. So trust me when I say that the people getting penalized aren't always throwing a hysterical fit of rage. You and others around here just assume that part. Of course sometimes I admit I am toxic even by my own standards. I'm not saying I am 100% free of fault. The point is a lot of times I am being fairly mild yet the sensitive standard decides that I am behaving like Satan. It's madness.
: So you want the freedom to be an asshole? Why do you need to unload yourself on a video game when there are plenty of internet chats/comments/threads/etc that you can go to without distracting others from a game? > Fairies that can't handle us Lmao you make it sound like you're some sort of badass because you can type mean things in chat. You either A: lack self control or B: don't give a fuck about other people. Either way this is not a healthy attitude for any community. If Riot were to start catering to you types more, it would legitimize your community-destructive behavior. > Recently I have forced myself to resist urges to buy any rp because I feel like my toxic nature might get me banned and it'll be a waste of money. Have you considered maybe that the problem isn't riot or other people and it might be you? If you accepted this and changed your behavior you wouldn't have to worry about wasting money anymore. Communities where toxicity is just allowed to exist isn't going to draw people in. Okay, im sure you'll get some edgelords who think they're something by being forced into a server with the cool toxic people, but overall it would reduce the amount of new players coming in. Also, can you imagine how this would look to the public? A video game company allows toxicity to exist instead of suppressing it? Yeah, that'll be great for their image. There's a reason this behavior is refered to as "toxic".
What league classifies as an asshole isn't actually an asshole imo. So if they insist on keeping their definition of asshole just isolate the "assholes" so they can be "assholes" to each other and leave the softies alone. I don't think I'm a badass, I think people in league are just becoming overly sensitive. If you ask me, THIS is the unhealthy attitude since the real world won't penalize people for profanity or being verbally hostile. And don't give me some extreme example like every other idiot in this thread. I see people getting penalized in this game for the mildest garbage. Also they wouldn't be catering to us, they would be isolating incompatible parties. The way things are right now banned people can just make a new account, so give them an incentive not to make a new account and give them a prisoner's island. Yea I might be the problem, you are right. But the issue could just as easily be with the standard being too narrow and strict but you closed-minded fanboys refuse to even acknowledge this as a possibility and rage when others don't see things your way. Either way I DID try to conform to this baby standard of theirs and although most games I succeed, some games I fail, and it only take one game with one curse word for me to get penalized. That's pretty bs if you ask me. You have a point about toxic players keeping new players away, but this is a problem right now in the current system. In fact what the current system does is take players and ban them and force them to create new accounts if they want to keep playing the game so the toxic players start to pool at the lower mmr which is what new players are subjected to. So their current system is trash. If you isolate the toxic players instead of causing them to migrate to lower mmr then you solve the problem. That's my theory anyway. Stop saying it allows toxicity to exist. It's like you don't understand my suggestion at all. The whole point is to isolate the toxic community. How does that effect the regular player base? It doesn't!
: We "customers" are toxic, I kick them out of my store. I can stand a certain level of stupid, but once you pass a threshold I kick you out, AND if need be I call the cops and get criminal trespass on you. Works in league pretty similarly to how it works in real life.
If you kick people out for using the f-word once or for being passive aggressive then you are absolutely insane and you are probably the only store owner who does this. Real life isn't anywhere near as bonkers as league.
TrulyBland (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=VoydHunter,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=W1PaR3Xc,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-01T20:25:42.776+0000) > > Some people tell me the percentage of toxic players is low yet Riot Lyte once said that according to his data only 10% of the league community was positive. Yes. Positive. The vast majority of people is neutral. The people who end up permabanned are a tiny subsection of players toxic enough to get punished, who by themselves are a small subsection of the people who could be considered negative. >But what happens in the current system. You naively try to reform a guy to conform to a ridiculous standard and eventually ban him when that fails. He makes a new account and straight up stops trying to conform to the standard and just goes wild. That's just an assumption, though. > this sounds ideal to you? Nobody is saying the system is ideal. There are, however, people who agree it is better than the alternatives that have been proposed thus far. > perma-bans (admitted by the very riot quote that you provided to me) fail to separate un-reformable people from the general public That's not actually what that quote says, though. Permabans don't *generally* fail to seperate un-reformable people from the general public. They are merely no guaranteed success.
What makes you say the vast majority is neutral? I haven't been able to find any specific numbers on this so if you have it please share. Like I said before I have no problem admitting that I am wrong if there is unambiguous data to prove me wrong. Yes, it is a guess, but I based it off certain observations. I went into more detail in my response to Imperial Pandaa below. But ultimately yes, it is an assumption. There are also people who agree that some suggested alternatives would drastically improve the system. At least you agree with me that the system has room for improvement, so you can understand why I made a suggestion that I believe would be an improvement (even though you may not agree with the specific proposal). Maybe not a massive fail but I don't think what I said is wrong. The quote clearly admits that this method does not guarantee separation, and based on my observations it's not really doing an amazing job. Probably works pretty well but not nearly as well as it could (imo of course).
: > [{quoted}](name=VoydHunter,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=W1PaR3Xc,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-01T20:25:42.776+0000) > > Well it might be worth it. Some people tell me the percentage of toxic players is low yet Riot Lyte once said that according to his data only 10% of the league community was positive. Riot has also expressed through articles that the toxic issue was running rampant and that an entire team was dedicated to the cause for years. It's a bigger problem than most of you realize. You read that data a completely different way than I do, granted we are even looking at the same article. It is incredibly easy to say 10% are positive and immediately think 90% is negative. However, it isn't black and white there is neutrality. Which is why the system is based off consistency and severity. > > But what happens in the current system. You naively try to reform a guy to conform to a ridiculous standard and eventually ban him when that fails. How is the standard of don't be an ass ridiculous? I get that is a broad area as for what consistutes being an ass, but that is the standard. You jist have to be neutral. >He makes a new account and straight up stops trying to conform to the standard and just goes wild. So you effectively did nothing to solve the problem. Now you have a bunch of "toxic" players with nothing to lose who will behave how they want AND are still in contact with the general public AND they are no longer paying customers because every account they create is now intentionally transient. They are free radicals in the system... this sounds ideal to you? If this toxic interaction between incompatible parties is so damaging to the game and if perma-bans (admitted by the very riot quote that you provided to me) fail to separate un-reformable people from the general public, then clearly an alternate solution is needed. Ah yes, because every person who gets banned decides to create another account. This might sound weird, but not every banned player does. Sure, some might; but there are also those who quit because they lost their investment. The quote i provided from a Riot member doesn't say permabans fail; it acknowledges there is no feasible way to prevent peopel from making new accounts. You can't provide numbers on how many permaban players create a new account and I cannot provide numbers for how many don't. >Either alter the ridiculous standard or provide an alternate standard in a separate space. I don't know how other toxic people feel about this, but speaking for myself, a separate space would eliminate any incentive for me to make new accounts. Again, not a ridiculouse standard and again, why waste resources on creating an alternative space for a subset of players that don't want to follow guidelines? And again, this Prisoners Island should include gameplay offenders too. Because they are customers too, just a bit rough around the edges. > > As for technical concerns, I am no expert, but I don't see why the player population can't be separated without having a separate server. I don't know if it's possible to have more than one client on a server or if there is some other way to block matching between prisoners and regular people but I'm sure there is a way to do it without extra physical servers. At the end of the say the player population is not increasing so you should not need extra servers to support the load. You would need a new server to prevent issues in matchmaking and make it smoother. I'm thinking more about higher elo players and how it would butcher queue times. Having a prisoner ranked at High Diamond doesn't really let them find anyone to play with if no other prisoners are near his rank. A new server would create a new ladder and mmr for people, making it easier to find games. Doubly so for non island players too. Basically same reason each Region has their own server.
I've been looking for numbers on the percentage of toxic players and haven't been able to find it so I guess that's open to interpretation. I am still unconvinced that toxic players are in such a small minority if so many articles describe the problem as "rampant." I guess we need to figure out how much of that 90% is actually negative but so far I don't see any hard evidence supporting either side, that's why I've been following my own anecdotal evidence. You nailed it when you said "I get that is a broad area as for what consistutes being an ass." From my perspective I'm not always being an ass when I am penalized. Sometimes I am, sometimes I believe the standard is too strict AND ignores a lot of context that should be considered. So the standard is A-okay from your point of view but absolute trash from mine. It's all subjective. I'm not saying every player will come back but considering that the reform/ban system has been in place for a while now and we still have articles popping up making a big issue of toxicity in league, it's safe to say that the system may not be working as well as it could.To me it does seem like a strong possibility that un-reformable players return in large numbers, otherwise after such a long time with this system in place, toxicity would not be such a huge problem. The quote may not say that the system outright fails but considering the above reasoning and the last sentence in that quote, I am inclined to believe that, again, the system is not working as well as it could. I think separate clients would be enough to have a separate mmr. Why do you need multiple servers to host multiple clients? Are you familiar with this technology? I am not, so I'm open to your input if you are.
mack9112 (NA)
: In what social situation would you be allowed to be loud rude and belligerent where you had to share the same space as someone else ? If you walked up to me and verbally abused me in the street I can just walk away. If you walked up to someone and was loud rude and belligerent while say at work or a store or a restaurant even a club you will be asked to leave which is exactly what happens in league. If you want to be verbally abusive in league you will be asked to leave aka banned. You continue to act like toxicity is an ok thing to be in any setting but it simply is not. In life you have to learn to treat others with respect and league will be no different. Toxicity exists from people unable to control there emotions so they turn to irrational responses and that kind of behaviour has to be corrected not ignored and shoved in a corner to fester.
I am allowed to act how I please as long as i am not violent the second I set foot outside my house. You are free to mute me in league the same way you are free to walk away in the street. The things I do and say in league aren't so extreme that they equate to the behavior that you are using as an example so I wouldn't be thrown out in a restaurant either. And there is the problem. The sensitive standard endorsed by sensitive people.
: The cost honestly wouldn't be worth it. It is most cost effective to ban them. At that point they are 3 paths to pick: create a new account and behave what has been deemed properly; create a new account but not change, eventually being banned again; or simply leave since you have already been removed. A Prisoner's Island would need as much resources as any other server unless you limit available modes; which if you did limit the modes, people would still either create a new account or leave. Rank would be pointless in that mode as no one would be over honor 2. I'll tell you what though, if you want this Island to host all perm banned accounts, maybe I'll consider it. By which I mean trolls, cheaters, and all the other offenses. Because the moment verbal offenses get a "pass" due to the existence of a Prisoner's Island, why shouldn't all the others be excluded from joining them. Again, not worth the cost to implement or maintain. Its just business. I tell people to leave my place of work for excessive language; not because they are vile, but because there is a limit and they passed that limit.
Well it might be worth it. Some people tell me the percentage of toxic players is low yet Riot Lyte once said that according to his data only 10% of the league community was positive. Riot has also expressed through articles that the toxic issue was running rampant and that an entire team was dedicated to the cause for years. It's a bigger problem than most of you realize. But what happens in the current system. You naively try to reform a guy to conform to a ridiculous standard and eventually ban him when that fails. He makes a new account and straight up stops trying to conform to the standard and just goes wild. So you effectively did nothing to solve the problem. Now you have a bunch of "toxic" players with nothing to lose who will behave how they want AND are still in contact with the general public AND they are no longer paying customers because every account they create is now intentionally transient. They are free radicals in the system... this sounds ideal to you? If this toxic interaction between incompatible parties is so damaging to the game and if perma-bans (admitted by the very riot quote that you provided to me) fail to separate un-reformable people from the general public, then clearly an alternate solution is needed. Either alter the ridiculous standard or provide an alternate standard in a separate space. I don't know how other toxic people feel about this, but speaking for myself, a separate space would eliminate any incentive for me to make new accounts. As for technical concerns, I am no expert, but I don't see why the player population can't be separated without having a separate server. I don't know if it's possible to have more than one client on a server or if there is some other way to block matching between prisoners and regular people but I'm sure there is a way to do it without extra physical servers. At the end of the say the player population is not increasing so you should not need extra servers to support the load.
: It's true to a degree because even the ones you call "overly sensitive" are just toxic people, they just use different kind of arguments.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who recognizes this hypocrisy.
mack9112 (NA)
: You argument is that you feel you are justified to be toxic if everyone you play with is just as toxic as you. In reality in order to fit into any social scene you have to treat others in that social scene with respect league is no different. You represent the 1% of toxicity that leads to punishment. You would rather have that one percent be put into there own camp to rot and further develop worse toxic tendency’s than recognize that the toxic mentality is incorrect and you have to change that attitude and through that reform. And once again how would your system eliminate toxicity?
No, my argument is that if you give toxic players a toxic realm, you satisfy everyone. We are less likely to come back with smurf accounts. That's not good for you or me. With a separate realm I will stay among ppl I am more compatible with. You don't have to deal with me and I don't have to deal with you. If you want to talk about the social scene in real life outside of this game, people are free to curse and insult as much as they want and little babies who can't handle it are forced to deal with it because the law protects freedom of speech. If I walk up to you on the sidewalk and say "fuck you" try and report that to any law enforcement agency and they will laugh at you. Society outside of this game won't punish people for mild garbage the way this game does. Maybe sensitive children who play this game got the impression that that's how the world works but I assure you that is a misconception. You are deluded if you truly believe that. I represent 1% of the league community as a toxic player or I represent 1% of the toxic community? You would be wrong with either statement. Also, what you and riot recognizes as toxic is incorrect. The standard is too narrow and strict. It's YOU who needs to lighten up and stop getting offended over everything. And once again, separate incompatible people to prevent toxic interactions. Ask me the same question as many times as you want and I will give you the same answer. I know it must be hard for you to grasp simple concepts but worry not, I'm willing to help you understand. We'll get through this together.
DalekZec (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=VoydHunter,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=W1PaR3Xc,comment-id=00070000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-01T18:25:50.141+0000) > > Why all the hostility all of a sudden. I was trying to be civil with you. But hey I noticed that most of you riot fanboys are hypocrites. You pretend to have moral superiority yet display the same level of toxicity as us toxic players if not more. Honestly by your own logic, you should be blocked out from league. Sarcasm means being hostile. Yeah makes sense. I just lost the will to even try further.
I don't think you understand sarcasm buddy. But hey go ahead and be toxic if you want. I believe in free speech. Just remember that this is riot's forum and they don't share my belief.
: In case people have only shown the prisoner island comments and not Riot sayiing we don't want. > [{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mfIbceyR,comment-id=0000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-01-08T00:18:25.680+0000) > > Except in extreme cases, players get many chances before being perma-banned. We make every attempt to get people to change their behavior. > > Yes, we care. > > However, we know that playing with unsportsmanlike players actually causes a bad experience for our other players. It makes their playtime less enjoyable and leads to more people quitting. How do you feel after playing a game with someone who harasses you, or feeds? Are you keen to play another game right after? > > The opposite. We don't want these players to make new accounts. A perma-ban is our way of exiting a player from the community. We just don't have any way to keep them from coming back.
Prisoners island would keep them from coming back... You are only strengthening my point here. The current system is clearly not optimal because toxic players can easily come back. So instead of taking the lazy approach and dismissing us as vile human beings, why not open your mind and understand that we may just be a little rough around the edges and a lot less sensitive than the average player. Appease us with a realm of our own and we have no reason to keep going back to the general population. At the very least they can test a prisoner's island approach with one region and if it proves to be inefficient they don't need to expand it, just ice it.
: Catering to toxic masses because they are masses is what is ruining games, movies, media and politics.
I would argue that catering to overly sensitive masses is what's ruining games, movies and media. Politics is far more complicated for me to comment on generally but if you want to go into politics let me know and I'll be happy to do so.
DalekZec (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=VoydHunter,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=W1PaR3Xc,comment-id=000700000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-31T23:44:51.873+0000) > > I don't know if it would require separate servers. Not sure of course but I don't see why the same servers can't support the separate clients. There are probably loads of methods for separating the player base without having separate servers. Again, I'm not sure about the technical aspect so you could be right about that. > > This is theoretically a replacement for perma-bans. Instead of being perma-banned out of the game you get perma-banned to prisoner's island. No need to worry about what it takes to get there as we already have that outlined for bans in the current system. No need to worry about earning honor back because this may be permanent. If they want to implement a way to get out I guess it's fine but theoretically it's for players who have shown that they can't be reformed to meet the their current standards. As for the smurf issue, we have that with the current system of bans already. Still a hell of a stupid idea. It's so stupid you make ct's ideas look good. Yeah. That's how bad it is. Like fuck man. This is one hell of an achievement. Where is the gold medal when you need 1?!? On a serious side note, toxic a-holes deserve to be blocked out. Not catered to. Like this idea of yours is more of a reward than a punishment. I don't think any toxic dude will be like "oh no I got placed in a different server for people like me! I'm sorry rito! Put me back to normal servers!"
Why all the hostility all of a sudden. I was trying to be civil with you. But hey I noticed that most of you riot fanboys are hypocrites. You pretend to have moral superiority yet display the same level of toxicity as us toxic players if not more. Honestly by your own logic, you should be blocked out from league.
mack9112 (NA)
: You obviously don’t understand the system though. It is designed to eliminate toxicity so how would your suggestion help eliminate toxicity?
By not reaching naive conclusions and instead separating toxic people from the general public rather than allowing them to be pseudo-reformed and returned to the main pool of players. I understand the system perfectly, like I said. You are just too simple minded to move past your pompous posturing and focus on the specifics of my argument.
mack9112 (NA)
: No you obviously do not understand that the system works the way it does to combat toxicity. What you suggest does nothing to combat toxicity.
I understand the system perfectly. You clearly don't understand my post.
mack9112 (NA)
: Your entire discussion here is a about the punishment system that exists within league of legends. I have not fallen off topic only clearly states how the system works. You do not receive special treatment because you prefer to be verbally abusive. If you want to participate in the community of league of legends than you will have to abide by the rules. If not the punishment system which has an opinion formed by the community will ban you. This is an opportunity for you to self improve and stop your toxic behaviour because in reality it is not a good thing to have as a personal characteristic.
I already made it painfully clear that I understand how the system works so you and every other dingus pointing out the same thing over and over is redundant and unnecessary. My post has nothing to do with clarifying the specifics of the current system. I already understand how that works but thanks for your input anyway. If you have anything to say about my specific suggestion feel free to comment but I don't need to know how the system currently works. You are free to move on if this concept is too difficult for you to grasp.
mack9112 (NA)
: League of legends is a community that you participate in. Riots AI punishment system uses that communities opinion to form its decision making. The vaste majority of the community does not deam toxicity to be an acceptable part of the game. If you want to participate in the game you have to change to conform to the communities standards you do not get special treatment because you do not agree with something that I’m reality is in the better interests of everyone involved.
Yes, you get penalized for bad behavior. Thanks captain obvious. Maybe stay on topic next time.
: Egirl = an Often degrading label directed at females = NEVER Allowed! Incel = An often degrading label directed at Men = A-OK, cuz men. Both are real, But one is perfectly acceptable to label men while the other is never allowed because it might hurt wahmens feels. My point stands.
Double standards permeate this rapidly decaying society, my dude.
: So its ok to call players "incels" But the moment someone gets called an "egirl" you shed a tear and call it a tragedy, Hypocrite much? Oh wait, no. always gotta have the double standards to protect the wahmenz.
Granark (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=TheRealFrankerZ,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=MGIum6ZG,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-14T11:52:47.381+0000) > > Do this. It is not an exaggeration, YOU WILL BE BANNED FOR MINOR NEGATIVE INTERACTIONS, take my game for example: > Game 1 > Pre-Game > TheRealFrankerZ: i skip school to play this game > In-Game > TheRealFrankerZ: was there a 0/58 janna on the other team? > TheRealFrankerZ: look that up > TheRealFrankerZ: it is the hardest throw ever > TheRealFrankerZ: yes > TheRealFrankerZ: i may have lvl 6 mastery > TheRealFrankerZ: but i got this before rework > TheRealFrankerZ: idk how to play irelia > TheRealFrankerZ: she resets bounties and is worth 50 gold > TheRealFrankerZ: could i get a gank? > TheRealFrankerZ: its a darius > TheRealFrankerZ: just one gank > TheRealFrankerZ: k > TheRealFrankerZ: open > TheRealFrankerZ: top > TheRealFrankerZ: ff 15 > TheRealFrankerZ: camille is a trash jungler > TheRealFrankerZ: darius > TheRealFrankerZ: darius beats everyone > TheRealFrankerZ: if no gank > TheRealFrankerZ: look at her cs > TheRealFrankerZ: no ganks and she still cant farm > TheRealFrankerZ: are you stupid? > TheRealFrankerZ: look at my cs > TheRealFrankerZ: look at my rank > TheRealFrankerZ: and tell me that I LOST THE LANE > TheRealFrankerZ: eve ganked 3 times > TheRealFrankerZ: camille not once > TheRealFrankerZ: jungler is the obvious problem > TheRealFrankerZ: if she did gank i could get a lead > TheRealFrankerZ: 4 man gank > TheRealFrankerZ: and you're telling me > TheRealFrankerZ: it's my fault > TheRealFrankerZ: this thresh is saying its my fault im losing and the jungler had nothing to do with my lane losing > TheRealFrankerZ: do you guys agree with that? > TheRealFrankerZ: report thresh for int > TheRealFrankerZ: he literally sat there and let you kill him > TheRealFrankerZ: and he's trying his hardest to make me mad > TheRealFrankerZ: i dont > TheRealFrankerZ: if your lane lost you would be fuming lb > TheRealFrankerZ: one person denied the surrender vote > TheRealFrankerZ: wonder who that could be > TheRealFrankerZ: ahri got camped You deserve the ban. "Open top, ff 15"; this is a quitter's attitude that shouldn't be allowed in ranked. You ruin the game.
This is the mildest log I've ever seen. People get banned for garbage like this??? The sensitivity of this community really is getting out of hand.
DalekZec (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=VoydHunter,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=W1PaR3Xc,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-31T21:14:30.655+0000) > > Yea... I already know this. What is your point? The purpose of this post wasn't to clear up any confusion about the way things work at riot, it was to propose a feature that would benefit both toxic and non-toxic players. I have a feeling you understand absolutely nothing about what I was originally saying so allow me to restate it here in a sentence or two and you can (hopefully) keep your future responses relevant to the damn topic. Toxic players with repeated offenses eventually get banned. My suggestion was to ban them to prisoner's island which would still accomplish the goal of protecting the rest of the player base from our toxicity. What is your objection to this (please...something that hasn't been stated already)? Yeah well a separate server for toxic and non-toxic is just impossible. Well not exactly impossible but it will cause more problems than solve them. Like a hydra. Cut 1 head, 2 heads grow back. The solution part: - you'll be in matches with friendly people, and toxic will he with toxic. The problems part: - There will probably have to be a server for toxic players (NA, EUW, EUNE, etc). That's a shit ton of servers to support a hell version for toxic players. - What will it take to even earn to go there? Say you have to be minimum honor 2 to be in the friendly but if you get a ban or something, your honor goes to zero and automatically block you from your server and open the gates to the toxic servers. Real problem is, you have to honor up to re-earn the friendly server but toxic players don't really do honouring and so honouring up will take twice or three times longer than what we already have. - oh some dude got into the toxic server? Make another account or Smurf and return to the friendly servers and ruin games more and might even be more toxic than ever. The problems can go on and on. You get the picture.
I don't know if it would require separate servers. Not sure of course but I don't see why the same servers can't support the separate clients. There are probably loads of methods for separating the player base without having separate servers. Again, I'm not sure about the technical aspect so you could be right about that. This is theoretically a replacement for perma-bans. Instead of being perma-banned out of the game you get perma-banned to prisoner's island. No need to worry about what it takes to get there as we already have that outlined for bans in the current system. No need to worry about earning honor back because this may be permanent. If they want to implement a way to get out I guess it's fine but theoretically it's for players who have shown that they can't be reformed to meet the their current standards. As for the smurf issue, we have that with the current system of bans already.
: Let's see. * Amount of time Riot has spent on focusing on reform and removing un-reformable players from the game? 100% * Amount of time Riot has spent on catering to toxic players and expending resources on giving them their own shit-filled playgrounds? 0% They have specifically said they want people who can't reform to **stop playing the game**. I'm basing what I'm saying by what's come out of the horse's mouth. But you go ahead and hope that one day you get to play in their yard with no rules while they thank you for buying 2 skins a year.
Oh AND you have inside info one what riot's been working on. You're full of surprises aren't you. Mind filling me in on who the new champion is gonna be?
: > Saying that a compulsory queue has the downside of players ruining games before going to the toxic queue has no weight since the current system is exactly the same. So? The only benefit the toxic queue would have is keeping a player who's worn out their welcome strictly so they can make money off of them. And this isn't even getting into the potential drawbacks depending on what type of queue the toxic queue would be. Normals-only would probably cause quite a few toxics to just make a new account and ruin _more_ games when their account gets condemned to not be able to play Ranked. No matter which way you cut it, the idea of a toxic queue is not a great improvement in any measure - much less a situation where "everyone's happy". > People like me are different due to genetic and societal factors. What genetic factors? Societal factors can be subverted and subdued. Society can make a man a bastard, but that man can make himself anything he wants. Everyone can change, they just need a reason to bother with it. > Sure I can force myself to behave most of the time, but occasionally I slip up. It's not that I can't be bothered, I just fail. Occasional failure is no reason to just give up and ask for what amounts to a free pass to not try anymore. And that's _exactly_ what the toxic queue would be; a free pass to not try to reform and control oneself. > It's not realistic to expect everyone to have the same level of composure. So then why does everyone in the real world expect people to behave and not be flagrant jerks in public? It is no less realistic to expect the bare minimum of basic decency out of people in League as it is out in the real world. > It's easy (also closed-minded) for you to dismiss people like me because the current system works in your favor. Nice strawman. > I guess there is no need to understand differences in people and try to accommodate everyone as long as you're in the group that gets what they want. Ironically well-said, considering that you're assuming quite a lot about me and openly dismissing what I say because of it. If you're not gonna come at me even, then there's nothing further to discuss here.
There is ongoing discussion about how much genetics influences a persons personality and mental abilities. I don't know what the final consensus is or if there even is a final consensus so I won't pursue that discussion. The point is I tried and failed. I'm not giving up because of the failures alone. I think that the standard that is being applied is waaayyyy too narrow. I don't mean to make assumptions about you but it seemed like you were telling me to adhere to this standard no matter how strict without even considering that maybe (just maybe) the standard really is a bit too narrow. To that end you seemed pretty dismissive of my argument so I didn't feel inclined to take your argument seriously. If you prefer to end the discussion that's your call. Just keep in mind that just because Riot set a standard in place, it doesn't make that standard right in the general sense by default. If I needed an authority to provide a moral standard, a gaming company would be the last place I go to.
: And you're making a useless suggestion that's been done a thousand times here when someone's been punished - "Make special areas, expend resources on, and cater to toxic people who can't follow the rules." Ain't gonna happen.
Oh you're a fortune teller now eh good boy? Thanks for the prediction I'll write it down somewhere in case I need it in the future.
: Lmao. Enjoy your 30 minute queues and emotionally charged petty arguements that lead to trolling eachother to "teach a lesson". Jesus christ.
Sounds like heaven. Keep the fairies out and I'm good. I don't have to deal with you and you don't have to deal with me. You saying you'd rather keep me around than banish me to another realm?
: You don't get freedom of speech in someone else's house. You get to abide by the rules or don't come to the party.
What's your point? I don't need one of riot's good boys telling me how things are. My post is to suggest a change. How about addressing the change in question instead of making a useless comment that most people are already aware of.
: > Maybe I wasn't clear. Though I would personally be in this queue voluntarily I didn't not imply that it should be a voluntary queue. Riot already has a system in place that will eventually ban players. Instead of being banned from the game outright they would be banned to this toxic pool. Read above. If it's voluntary, you'll have toxic players ignoring the toxic queue, deliberately or otherwise, and ruining games. If it's compulsory, you'll have toxic players ruining games before getting shipped off to the toxic queue. Having the toxic queue would provide no real benefit to anyone _besides_ the toxic players, which Riot has stated before that they don't want toxic players playing their game. So if the punishment progression would be 10-game CR > 25-game CR > 14-day ban > toxic queue, then Riot's just going to opt to stick with their current punishment system, because if you can't be bothered to play by the rules, Riot can't be bothered to have you playing at all. > And yes "simply" being less toxic is a problem for me... Again; if it's a problem for you, then League may not be the game for you, and you're absolutely free to leave if you don't like the conditions that you agreed to.
Saying that a compulsory queue has the downside of players ruining games before going to the toxic queue has no weight since the current system is exactly the same. People like me are different due to genetic and societal factors. Sure I can force myself to behave most of the time, but occasionally I slip up. It's not that I can't be bothered, I just fail. It's not realistic to expect everyone to have the same level of composure. It's easy (also closed-minded) for you to dismiss people like me because the current system works in your favor. I guess there is no need to understand differences in people and try to accommodate everyone as long as you're in the group that gets what they want.
mack9112 (NA)
: In life you have to learn to follow the rules.
You may be right. But I live by enough rules. So maybe I want to try and maintain my freedom of speech in a game. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
DalekZec (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=VoydHunter,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=W1PaR3Xc,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-05-31T21:02:14.472+0000) > > You give an extreme example to vindicate your weak point and call me stupid? Other people here have made better arguments than that. Try again buddy. Sorry, my head is pounding like a fuckin drum. Still, what you said is stupid though. Riot has rules, you go by it or get banned. Just like how countries have laws, or when you have a house and have your own rules. Basic stuff. Easy as abc.
Yea... I already know this. What is your point? The purpose of this post wasn't to clear up any confusion about the way things work at riot, it was to propose a feature that would benefit both toxic and non-toxic players. I have a feeling you understand absolutely nothing about what I was originally saying so allow me to restate it here in a sentence or two and you can (hopefully) keep your future responses relevant to the damn topic. Toxic players with repeated offenses eventually get banned. My suggestion was to ban them to prisoner's island which would still accomplish the goal of protecting the rest of the player base from our toxicity. What is your objection to this (please...something that hasn't been stated already)?
: > [{quoted}](name=VoydHunter,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=W1PaR3Xc,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-05-31T20:43:12.758+0000)I was simply offering a way for riot to keep toxic people as customers should they decide that it's worth it. They have specifically stated they are not interested in keeping toxic players as customers unless they reform. Here's the quote: >[Removing toxic people from the community means more people enjoy their gaming experience, because they aren't exposed to harassment. When people are perma-banned, they are removed from the community. We don't want them making new accounts. We don't want their money.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/f/ZGEFLEUQ/d/baHakaeE?comment=000800010001)
They want to remove us in order to protect people like you from people like me. Prisoner's island accomplishes that. Any further bias against toxic players is merely a difference of perspective that they don't understand fully. I already told you why their argument against prisoner's island is weak.
zPOOPz (NA)
: His assumption is based on Rito official published statements/statistics. Yours is based on.....?
Link? I have no problem accepting data and he could be correct but I'd like to see it if it's not too much trouble.
DalekZec (EUNE)
: I go to McDonalds and run around, kicking tables, stealing happy meal toys and throw food everywhere. They kick me out. A lot of people a-holes, but we are still customers. Do you have any idea how stupid you sound? The game has rules when playing them, you either go by it or piss off from the game. Make your own game and own rules. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} This type of thought...you have to be in some fucked up crack to even say this shit.
You give an extreme example to vindicate your weak point and call me stupid? Other people here have made better arguments than that. Try again buddy.
: > [{quoted}](name=VoydHunter,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=W1PaR3Xc,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-05-31T20:47:35.006+0000)But toxic people do exist. We aren't evil. We were raised differently, tend to be more vulgar and less sensitive. That's about it. I don't see why they should shun us for being a bit different. At the end of the day you still don't have to deal with us with this approach. No one is saying you're evil. What we are saying is that you need to learn how to abide by the rules of a space, and, if you can't, you need to appreciate that you may face punishments for being unable to do so. In this case, Riot has decided they do not want toxic players in their community if those people cannot control their toxic behaviors here.
Fair enough. I already came to terms with the fact that I may need to remove myself from this game and riot has the right to ban me if they want. All i'm saying is that players that would be banned anyway could be banned to prisoner's island instead. Just a suggestion, not saying they MUST do it.
zPOOPz (NA)
: What is the payback of prisoners island for RIto vs the cost of implementing and MAINTAINING it? It's a business decision and prison island will have very, very bad returns on investment for Rito.
They described the toxic problem in articles as "rampant" and have had a whole team designated to it for years. Clearly toxicity isn't in the minority as some of you claim. They payback could actually be huge.
: Theres both a mute button and a profanity filter if people cant handle it they can use those. Its sad some people's experiences need to be hindered for others to enjoy their game.
: If simply not flaming and not being toxic is _that_ big of a problem for you, that the majority of the community apparently deserves to be called "fairies" and that it pains you to simply _not_ be toxic, then perhaps _League just isn't the game for you._ Toxicity is detrimental to the game, and toxic players, as it stand, are a minority. The majority of players _aren't_ toxic, and Riot does not care if you throw all your money and then some at them - if your behavior is ultimately bad for the game, Riot doesn't want it. Besides, what good would a "toxic queue" do? If it's voluntary, then that's hinging all of its effectiveness on a toxic player's ability to acknowledge their own toxicity, which very few would. And if it's compulsory, then that requires a behavioral history for the system to have a reason to force you into the toxic queue, meaning you'd have already ruined a fair few games by the time you're actually quarantined into the toxic queue. So it's a lose/lose situation, and not everyone would be happy. You either have dozens of games ruined by toxic players who refuse to play in the toxic queue, or dozens of games ruined by toxic players who haven't yet been pushed into the toxic queue. You really have two options, because Riot is not going to work to enable people who can't be bothered to play by the rules; you can either learn to handle the stressors of League and not be toxic, however painful it may be for you, or you can leave - voluntarily or otherwise - because toxicity has no place in League.
Maybe I wasn't clear. Though I would personally be in this queue voluntarily I didn't not imply that it should be a voluntary queue. Riot already has a system in place that will eventually ban players. Instead of being banned from the game outright they would be banned to this toxic pool. And yes "simply" being less toxic is a problem for me the same way "simply" being less sensitive is clearly a problem for you.
: >Let us toxic customers play our own way and we will continue to throw money at you. Riot has actually stated before that they do not want the money of toxic players -- they want them to either adjust their behavior or *stop playing the game*. They have also stated several times why they're opposed to the Prisoner's Island approach. Here are some of the reasons: * It leads to bad matchmaking, since toxic players can only play against other toxic players, and the community of toxic players is fairly small and spread across a wide MMR range. * It makes recovering harder for only rarely toxic players, as they're exposed to more toxicity more frequently. * Different people have different level of toxicity. If someone calls their teammates idiots a bit too often, that doesn't mean they're okay with people screaming hate speech.
Prisoners island would be for players that would otherwise be banned. The regular penalties would apply before that. And if they don't want players like me as customers, that's fine. But toxic people do exist. We aren't evil. We were raised differently, tend to be more vulgar and less sensitive. That's about it. I don't see why they should shun us for being a bit different. At the end of the day you still don't have to deal with us with this approach.
: Although we're not in a bar and no matter what is said in a bar besides hate speech you're not gonna get bounced for it. So that analogy has no merits here. Ive realized something odd the most toxic players are usually the ones who care the most about the outcome of the game. The others are just like meh its just a game. Which is true but if you think "meh its just a game" and queue up for ranked which isnt for players with a casual mentality its for players who want to climb, learn, get better at the game, test themselves and push their limits. All of which isnt gonna be seen in a players who are casually playing while doing their homework on the side.
Ulanopo (NA)
: >But, riot... we are still customers. Actually, they don't want you as customers if you can't manage to abide by their very simple rules. They want you to be better or go away. It's as simple as that. [They've also explained many times why prisoner's island doesn't work and isn't going to be implemented.](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/01/ask-riot-banished-to-prisoners-island/)
They gave two reasons which are not fact, but subjective opinion. They believe in reform. As a toxic player I can say that not everyone is going to change their nature for a simple game. Those that do are just forcing themselves to be silent and keep the rage within which is a horrible experience. Reason two is that they believe it will be a bad experience for prisoners due to toxicity and long queue times. I don't need riot telling em what a bad experience will be for me. Being matched with pansies like you who are offended by everything is the definition of suffering from my perspective. As for long queue times? These are players who would otherwise be banned. If they choose to put up with long queue times its fine because they made the decision that long queue times to play the game is better than not being able to play the game at all. If they really don't want people like me as customers that's fine. At the rate I'm going I'll get a permaban and that will cure my addiction and I can move on to a better game. I was simply offering a way for riot to keep toxic people as customers should they decide that it's worth it.
: Riot is not going to expend resources on the very small number of customers who can't control themselves. Bars don't have "fighting sections," you get your asses bounced if you can't behave, no matter how many rounds you were planning on ordering. Are you familiar with the term Return on Investment (ROI)? Things can have a negative ROI, and not always in pure dollars and cents. There is most definitely negative ROI with making special cases in order to cater to people who go against Riot's core tenets - have fun and behave.
Your argument is based on the assumption that toxic players are an insignificantly small number and I don't think that's true.
FeederIee (EUW)
: You forgot to mention that riot refuses to stop mixing toxic people with normal people Because toxic people have a right to rehab and drag others down with them {{summoner:14}}
Have a separate pool for us toxic people and match us with each other and let us be free to be toxic with eachother. This is ideal for everyone. Riot thinking that a simple video game is going to change our nature is beyond naive.
: people are only punished if you report also the majority of humans are trash talkers/bad people so its impossible to get rid of them all despite banning tons.
I think the problem is that they are punished and permitted to continue interacting with everyone else. It would be better to have a separate pool of players with repeated offenses that get matched with each other. This would satisfy everyone. You don't need to deal with toxic players and toxic player can go wild being toxic to each other. As a toxic player myself, I would love to be separated from the normal player base.
: Players toxicity is getting insane nowadays...
Player sensitivity is a plague these days. Everyone needs to be lobotomized for you people to be fully satisfied?
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VoydHunter

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