RaizoYukishiro
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
The problem is that a significant portion of the veteran players you're playing with are people who were permabanned fairly recently.
This never really goes away, but it will happen less often as you level up. As for what you can do now, mute them if they're causing a problem, then report them and know they're probably going to get banned because the IFS treats low level accounts more strictly than higher levels.
|
|||||
ThinkingWeeb
(NA)
Wouldn't be surprised if the dude that called him that was recently permabanned and just created a new account.
|
|||||
1GON1
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
First, have you been banned before?
Second, the algorithm doesn't care who started it, or who's more toxic. If it sees two players breaking the rules and they're both reported, it will punish both.
|
|||||
wanotori
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
Well, this doesn't surprise me. Riot's support is particularly terrible, even in an industry known for terrible customer support.
You always have to contact them at least twice, because the first time they don't even read your ticket and just give you some copy+paste response that isn't even related to your issue. Then, after that, they try to provide you with as little information as possible and providing as little help as possible while making it look like they're still doing their job.
It seems like they're instructed to assume bad intent on the part of the person submitting the ticket.
|
|||||
zPOOPz
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
I can't really say one way or another, though I'd lean towards what the video showed being a coincidence.
|
|||||
|
zPOOPz
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
I was in fact still watching the replay.
Because it takes more than 6 minutes to watch a replay.
As for what I saw, a couple more things in line with what the video showed, but not much.
|
|||||
Ph03n1xb1rd
(EUW)
Vreivai
(NA)
Yeah, my point is that the only possible explanation is a preventative spell.
|
|||||
MattTheDamon
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
You may want to redact the name of the Sivir, if possible, as this video is violating the boards' naming and shaming policy.
|
|||||
Thefrostyviking
(EUW)
Vreivai
(NA)
Yeah, that's why I say it could be a coincidence, and I wouldn't say beyond a reasonable doubt that was a script.
That was ranked, though...
Fuck it, I've got nothing better to do, time to watch the replay.
Ok, saw a couple more instances where the Sivir's spellshield was suspiciously in sync with opponent's ability animation starting, but not much.
|
|||||
|
Ph03n1xb1rd
(EUW)
Vreivai
(NA)
> [{quoted}](name=Ph03n1xb1rd,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Wl9dWkhQ,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-05-03T14:30:07.673+0000)
>
>both the spellshield and flash are just a reaction
No they're not. There is not one single human that has ever lived that has a reaction speed anywhere near that fast. It is possible that both were predictions and just happened to coincidentally be precisely timed with Darius's animations, but they were definitely not reactions.
As for why the Sivir is still in Silver 2, this may be one of those instances where someone has their account stolen and has someone scripting on it, though looking at the match history of the player in question that's unlikely. It's also possible they're purposefully tanking their MMR to stay in Silver, or, if they are scripting, just started.
|
|||||
|
Thefrostyviking
(EUW)
Vreivai
(NA)
It's not so much the fact that the Sivir used those abilities to avoid Darius's abilities. It's the timing. Sivir used the spellshield the instant Darius's Q animation started, and the flash the instant the E animation started. It's possible, though unlikely, that the timing was a coincidence and Sivir was attempting to predict Darius's ability usage, but there's 0% chance that was a human reacting to those abilities.
|
|||||
XJ99999999999999
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
The reaction speeds are inhumanly fast for both the spellshield and the flash. It's possible in that case both of those were coincidences, and the Sivir managed to predict Darius's ability use and match their timing down to a few milliseconds, but if that happened a few more times in that one game it's near 100% chance that was a scripter.
|
|||||
BananaBottom
(NA)
As has been said on this board many times before, it's far easier for the algorithm to detect and punish toxic chat than for it to determine the intent of gameplay.
|
|||||
|
Ph03n1xb1rd
(EUW)
Vreivai
(NA)
He specifically might not. But in general, that does happen often enough that permanent chat restriction does more harm than good.
|
|||||
Hazy Shade
(NA)
The example I used was an extreme example to prove a point. And yes, I have seen chat logs where someone has been relatively non-abusive toward their teammates **except** for the one instance of a zero tolerance word. And I don't believe that chat like that creates anywhere near as much of a negative atmosphere as the ones where you see someone spending the entire game berating their team. And yet the former is punished more severely.
|
|||||
Dr Lav
(EUW)
Vreivai
(NA)
Two suggestions I'd give:
First, it sounds like you just need to learn to lose. As far as how to do that, I can't give much advice there, as that's something I need to work on myself.
Second, something I can help with: try to find another, out-of-game outlet for your frustration.
|
|||||
ßåd
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
I remember reading before that lower level accounts are treated more strictly than normal to catch repeat offenders more quickly.
I can't exactly remember where I saw that, and if I'm wrong someone please correct me.
|
|||||
bluefire mark 2
(NA)
The reason for that is that it's far easier for an algorithm to detect toxic chat than it is for it to determine the intent of gameplay.
I do agree, though, that the system tends to have poor priorities in terms of how it punishes chat, though. If you spend all game berating, insulting or otherwise harassing a player, it will likely take several games just to get to a 10-game chat restriction. On the other hand, if you are positive all game except for when you say the N word once, you immediately go up a 14-day ban. And then after that, say something like "you're bad" to someone, and now you're permabanned. In this case, which player created a more negative experience for more players? Likely the former, despite being treated far more leniently.
Though, thinking about it a bit more, it's probably for PR reasons that the zero-tolerance part of the system exists.
|
|||||
UMonky
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
Since he didn't explain what zero tolerance words are, they're words that include things like racial, ethnic or homophobic slurs.
|
|||||
Estakamozmoz
(EUW)
Vreivai
(NA)
There is no way to ensure that someone is banned. However, you can submit a support request to report someone, and it will trigger a review.
Based on what you said they said, that may be enough to trigger an escalation to 14-day ban immediately, though it may not be considered not toxic enough for that and merely contribute towards chat restrictions.
|
|||||
Hotarµ
(NA)
Now I'd just like to see upvotes/downvotes removed from this board.
|
|||||
Kailyou
(EUW)
Vreivai
(NA)
They really need to add a loading screen tip or something that mentions that 1 report is equal to 9, and there's no point in asking for other players to report someone.
It's not the current system that's the issue, it's a lack of knowledge about the system and how poorly Riot does in informing players how it functions.
|
|||||
DirtyMinDead
(EUW)
Vreivai
(NA)
Riot will never enable voice chat between players who are not in a party. There's just too many issues when it comes to moderation there.
First, there's the issue of accuracy. An algorithm would need to either be more lenient than Riot is willing to accept to avoid false positives, or keep it just as strict as it is for text chat and get a shitload of false positives, with things like "kill the Pyke" being misinterpreted as antisemitism or homophobia. Second, the algorithm would treat people who speak in different ways differently, opening Riot up to accusations of sexism, racism and ableism that they simply do not want to deal with.
|
|||||
Oddysseas
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
Well, that's your feeling. That is not, however, how this game's punishment system works. If its sees two people breaking the rules, it doesn't care who started it. It will punish both, assuming both were reported.
And you are also not allowed to make up rules that you feel should exist, then attempt to enforce said rules.
|
|||||
|
Oddysseas
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
Yes, if you did this there is a good chance you would be charged with a crime, as well. Vigilantism is not allowed in most justice systems.
|
|||||
|
Oddysseas
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
You locked Veigar and informed your team you were going to intentionally feed. Your team did not have an issue with you picking an off-meta champion. They took issue with the fact that you were going to (and did) intentionally feed.
|
|||||
|
Oddysseas
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
I think you misinterpreted one statement.
> [{quoted}](name=Oddysseas,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=52AZEgYO,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-01T07:33:11.551+0000)
>
> 2. "The way out of the penalty box is to play to win without ruining the game consistently". Given that most of my games I get at least 1 honor by my team, the devs know this of course, this is the first time I've done this and of course my 80% winrate today proves this fact. I am not ruining people's games consistently in fact I'm more often than not carrying my team to the win. I rarely vote yes on surrender votes and even when we're getting beaten badly I always try to get objectives as a jungler and win.
It seems that you think this is telling you to not be consistently breaking the rules. What's it's telling you, however, is to consistently not break the rules.
|
|||||
|
Oddysseas
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
Could you explain your logic on that one? I'm actually kind of curious how you reached that conclusion.
|
|||||
|
Oddysseas
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
First, let's get one thing out of the way: banning a teammate's intended pick is not against the rules. If you believe this should not be the case, bring it up on these boards, or another discussion board/forum. And there are people that agree with you on that subject, though I don't think it's anywhere near the majority. What you are not allowed to do is attempt vigilante justice, as you have done here. And remember that you didn't just ruin the game for the player who banned your intended pick, you also ruined the game for the other 3 members of your team, as well.
As far as punishments go, it doesn't matter what other players do on your team. If you intentionally feed or otherwise troll, or if you use chat in an abusive manner and you're reported, it will treat you individually and not even consider the actions of other players. If you feel someone is breaking the rules or otherwise being a toxic player, report them and let the system handle it. You are not a moderator.
|
|||||
rujitra
(NA)
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=5AvVKjE4,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-01T05:05:44.132+0000)
>
> I understand this, but am not sure why it's important. An action that one knows is wrong is an action one will virtually never take, no matter the mindset.
No, that's not how everyone works. Not everyone has perfect self-control. In fact, most people don't have the self-control you're describing. If you have that, that's great. It probably helps you succeed at many things. But if so, you're far better than the vast majority of people in this regard.
Providing the chat of other players may help players realize the situations that turn them into toxic players, which they can then work to avoid, or if avoiding it is impossible, realize at that point they should just shut up.
And I'm also not suggesting players post the chat logs including the chat of other players when they create threads on here. Doing so would just give us more crap to sift through and ultimately would detract from the conversation.
And I do agree that it would open the door to other problems if they were provided as default. I think a lot of players would see that and start making excuses, resulting in overall fewer players reforming. That's why I suggested they only be made available upon request to support, for people like the OP that want to do a more thorough review of what they did wrong.
|
|||||
Umbral Regent
(NA)
This thread fits into an idea I had recently: this board needs an FAQ post sticked to the top. It would address frequently discussed topics such as the topic of this thread, why someone got permabanned after a 14-day ban, and a bunch of other things that we explain on this board on a daily basis.
|
|||||
|
rujitra
(NA)
I think you're missing his point. I think his point is that if he saw the full chat log, he'd better understand the mindset he was in and why he said the things he said, and be better able to address and avoid such behavior in the future.
Though, personally, I'm not sure it would work that way for most people. Perhaps the full chat log of the game could be made available upon request?
|
|||||
KuuhakuSora
(NA)
As much as I'd like it to be punishable, it's probably unreasonable to add it into the IFS.
Seriously, though, fuck the people that do that.
|
|||||
|
Ph03n1xb1rd
(EUW)
If that's what you think, you don't understand the point of this board at all. It's not here to shit on people who were punished. It's not here for people to circle jerk about how virtuous they think they are.
It's here to discuss the punishment system, and for people to ask questions about it and their punishments. The latter is what the OP was doing here. I see no reason to downvote a thread where someone is using the board in its intended manner.
|
|||||
Kids call me mom
(NA)
Building the "wrong" items is not, or at least should not be, a bannable offense, unless no part of the item has any use whatsoever to the champion building it and the player building it clearly knows that.
In this case, Kha'Zix gains some benefit from 5/6 parts of Ardent Censer, and that increases to 6/6 if he's using the Font of Life rune.
Also, naming and shaming
|
|||||
Raigar
(NA)
Is someone running a bunch of bots that just comes in here and auto-downvote every single thread where someone posts their chat logs or something?
|
|||||
Julevi
(EUW)
> [{quoted}](name=Julevi,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WQfXBEkM,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-28T17:30:29.320+0000)
>
> Beside that other problems will raise aswell - e.g. people going afk on purpose and then coming back to get atleast a bit LP (when their team wins).
I don't think that'd be much of a problem, for two reasons:
1. I don't think people would really do that much, if at all. After you disconnect, you only have a rough idea of when the game will end. AFKing but coming back before the game ending would likely take so much effort to make sure you don't miss the end of the game that you may as well have just played the entire thing.
2. The vast majority of the time when a team has a player disconnected for a significant portion of the game they're going to lose.
|
|||||
Risng phoenix
(OCE)
Hopefully you didn't mention legal action in your ticket. If you did, support will be completely uncooperative as it would now be beyond the scope of their job.
|
|||||
|
Risng phoenix
(OCE)
Are there any games on your account that you don't recognize? It's fairly common that the people who make these scripts will illegitimately access another person's account and use it to advertise their scripts.
|
|||||
Thr33Zer0Thr33
(NA)
That's not his opinion, that's Riot's policy.
|
|||||
Jopskins
(EUW)
Vreivai
(NA)
https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/202647784-Account-Deletion-FAQ
|
|||||
|
rujitra
(NA)
That's true, but I don't see how it relates to the subject at hand. The argument isn't that the proportion should always be increasing because more players are getting banned than are joining the game. You'd think simple random variance would change it somewhat. And more importantly, the standards for moderation have changed over the years, as well as the algorithm itself. That should change the number significantly.
And also, given the relatively low standards for receiving a permaban, that number has always looked absurd to me at face value. Only one in every ~17000 players gets permabanned? That's an extraordinary claim for which I need more than Riot saying so to believe.
|
|||||
GoldsmithSmarty
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
Chat logs, dude
|
|||||
Inkling Commando
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
I find that unlikely. The only place where you can find it (outside these boards) is in a support article that most people aren't going to read until they've been hit with chat restrictions or a ban. It's also not the most intuitive, because there are a lot of games where number of reports does matter (just look at WoW, where volume of reports alone can hit you with a temporary silence until review by an overworked moderator in a guilty until proven innocent system). Then there's the fact that the vast majority of toxicity is raging at or arguing with teammates, not some plot to get other people banned.
|
|||||
|
Inkling Commando
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
Most of us here know that
But I'd guess a far, far smaller proportion of the general population of the game know.
|
|||||
Ajmonster101
(NA)
First, don't post multiple copies of the same thread.
Second, this is not where you go to appeal a punishment. All we can do here is help you understand why you were punished and how to avoid behavior that will get you punished in the future.
|
|||||
AORVAL
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
Did the accounts possibly get compromised? If you're banned, it will tell you you're banned. Your computer may have been compromised and someone was able to gain access to them that way, though it would be odd for what I'm guessing are less frequently used ones to be compromised while the one you were banned on is fine. I assume you've carefully checked your input of both the username and the password for them? Made sure you're definitely hitting all the right keys and all the keystrokes are actually registering?
|
|||||
Shandrake
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
That's not what he's claiming. He's not saying he got banned 40 times, he's saying he had 40 accounts and all were banned for this one game.
|
|||||
|
AORVAL
(NA)
Vreivai
(NA)
Could you provide some of the reform cards from when you log into accounts other than that account (include the entire client in the screenshot), or whatever comes up when you attempt to log in to them? Riot has explicitly stated that they do not IP ban, so if your claim is that they are in fact IP banning it'd be nice to have more to go on that just your word. To my knowledge, they will also not ban one account for the actions of another account.
|
|||||
FallingMeteor
(NA)
I'm just imagining the shitshow Challenger would turn into if they did this
A lot of pro players would probably have to have hidden smurfs just to get into a game.
|