: Being bullied as a new player is not fun
The problem is that a significant portion of the veteran players you're playing with are people who were permabanned fairly recently. This never really goes away, but it will happen less often as you level up. As for what you can do now, mute them if they're causing a problem, then report them and know they're probably going to get banned because the IFS treats low level accounts more strictly than higher levels.
: Not performing well means you're braindead?
Wouldn't be surprised if the dude that called him that was recently permabanned and just created a new account.
1GON1 (NA)
: Got banned for explaining why I'm not boosting and some banter against a very toxic player
First, have you been banned before? Second, the algorithm doesn't care who started it, or who's more toxic. If it sees two players breaking the rules and they're both reported, it will punish both.
wanotori (NA)
: Was perma-suspended over supposed "reversal of payment" for chargebacks, support won't help
Well, this doesn't surprise me. Riot's support is particularly terrible, even in an industry known for terrible customer support. You always have to contact them at least twice, because the first time they don't even read your ticket and just give you some copy+paste response that isn't even related to your issue. Then, after that, they try to provide you with as little information as possible and providing as little help as possible while making it look like they're still doing their job. It seems like they're instructed to assume bad intent on the part of the person submitting the ticket.
: It's a joke... So....what's the conclusion doc? yay or nay on the scripting? I'm not interested enough to watch myself.
I can't really say one way or another, though I'd lean towards what the video showed being a coincidence.
: .......and he's never seen on this thread again..... some say he's still watching the replay {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
I was in fact still watching the replay. Because it takes more than 6 minutes to watch a replay. As for what I saw, a couple more things in line with what the video showed, but not much.
: > a reaction (or preventive spell) Read literally 3 words longer. A preventive spell can occur BEFORE the EXPECTED ability.
Yeah, my point is that the only possible explanation is a preventative spell.
: Im tired of scripters.
You may want to redact the name of the Sivir, if possible, as this video is violating the boards' naming and shaming policy.
: I´d still give it the benefit of a doubt as predictions can substitute reaction times. Would probably have to watch the entire game to determine if Sivir is scripting or not.......but to be honest the detection measures Riot has against it seem to be reliable so it shouldn't be a problem.
Yeah, that's why I say it could be a coincidence, and I wouldn't say beyond a reasonable doubt that was a script. That was ranked, though... Fuck it, I've got nothing better to do, time to watch the replay. Ok, saw a couple more instances where the Sivir's spellshield was suspiciously in sync with opponent's ability animation starting, but not much.
: So you say this Sivir dodges 100% of spells the whole game? If that's the case, then you might be right. But just looking at the replay, there is nothing strange, both the spellshield and flash are just a reaction (or preventive spell) to an expected ability from Darius. Anybody who knows his skillset would do something like this. > If we are that good we can always spell shield,flash,dodge or land everything at a 90% rate we shouldnt be in s2 more like the lcs. You claim sivir did this consistently, yet she is still in S2. Something is wrong with that logic.
> [{quoted}](name=Ph03n1xb1rd,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Wl9dWkhQ,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-05-03T14:30:07.673+0000) > >both the spellshield and flash are just a reaction No they're not. There is not one single human that has ever lived that has a reaction speed anywhere near that fast. It is possible that both were predictions and just happened to coincidentally be precisely timed with Darius's animations, but they were definitely not reactions. As for why the Sivir is still in Silver 2, this may be one of those instances where someone has their account stolen and has someone scripting on it, though looking at the match history of the player in question that's unlikely. It's also possible they're purposefully tanking their MMR to stay in Silver, or, if they are scripting, just started.
: Spellshielding or using mobility to avoid Darius Q is easy AF so that´s not even close to scripting. As for his E, that thing is not fast so if you pay attention and expect it then its not difficult to flash to avoid it either, i´ve done both of those myself of a entire heap of champions......you pretty much have to learn how to do it if playing toplane. Well not exactly spell shielding it each time but going invulnerable or using a blink works too. The problem with Darius in a situation like that is him being extremely telegraphed, everyone and their dog knows what he does and how he does it so anyone with a bit of experience can easily cook up countermeasures.
It's not so much the fact that the Sivir used those abilities to avoid Darius's abilities. It's the timing. Sivir used the spellshield the instant Darius's Q animation started, and the flash the instant the E animation started. It's possible, though unlikely, that the timing was a coincidence and Sivir was attempting to predict Darius's ability usage, but there's 0% chance that was a human reacting to those abilities.
: that isnt a script lol
The reaction speeds are inhumanly fast for both the spellshield and the flash. It's possible in that case both of those were coincidences, and the Sivir managed to predict Darius's ability use and match their timing down to a few milliseconds, but if that happened a few more times in that one game it's near 100% chance that was a scripter.
: Riot doesn't give a sh*t about bad behavior, but only if you're PC?
As has been said on this board many times before, it's far easier for the algorithm to detect and punish toxic chat than for it to determine the intent of gameplay.
: But if they indefinitely mute you, you will turn into a raging inting troll monster who does everything to lose every game. At least according to Rito.
He specifically might not. But in general, that does happen often enough that permanent chat restriction does more harm than good.
: > [{quoted}](name=Vreivai,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EfAIRpc5,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-03T02:05:59.368+0000) > > The reason for that is that it's far easier for an algorithm to detect toxic chat than it is for it to determine the intent of gameplay. > > I do agree, though, that the system tends to have poor priorities in terms of how it punishes chat, though. If you spend all game berating, insulting or otherwise harassing a player, it will likely take several games just to get to a 10-game chat restriction. On the other hand, if you are positive all game except for when you say the N word once, you immediately go up a 14-day ban. And then after that, say something like "you're bad" to someone, and now you're permabanned. In this case, which player created a more negative experience for more players? Likely the former, despite being treated far more leniently. > > Though, thinking about it a bit more, it's probably for PR reasons that the zero-tolerance part of the system exists. Your example is faulty and unlikely to happen. Why in the world would someone say the n word. I don't buy the 'it just slipped' argument. You have to physically type it out. Plus if the person is typically positive, they will still be positive after their ban and they 'toxicity meter' will decay back down putting them out of harms way. Saying, 'youre bad,' once in chat isn't going to be considered toxic enough.
The example I used was an extreme example to prove a point. And yes, I have seen chat logs where someone has been relatively non-abusive toward their teammates **except** for the one instance of a zero tolerance word. And I don't believe that chat like that creates anywhere near as much of a negative atmosphere as the ones where you see someone spending the entire game berating their team. And yet the former is punished more severely.
Dr Lav (EUW)
: A curious summoner reflecting over it's behavior, searching for guidance by fellow summoners
Two suggestions I'd give: First, it sounds like you just need to learn to lose. As far as how to do that, I can't give much advice there, as that's something I need to work on myself. Second, something I can help with: try to find another, out-of-game outlet for your frustration.
ßåd (NA)
: IS it just me or?
I remember reading before that lower level accounts are treated more strictly than normal to catch repeat offenders more quickly. I can't exactly remember where I saw that, and if I'm wrong someone please correct me.
: Yeah. Since that is not good in several ways, probably even legally.. the real problem is that the chat system is too harsh and strict, and bans people for slight toxicity while afks and trolls, ones who actually ruin games get 5 games low priority at most and rarily ever perms.
The reason for that is that it's far easier for an algorithm to detect toxic chat than it is for it to determine the intent of gameplay. I do agree, though, that the system tends to have poor priorities in terms of how it punishes chat, though. If you spend all game berating, insulting or otherwise harassing a player, it will likely take several games just to get to a 10-game chat restriction. On the other hand, if you are positive all game except for when you say the N word once, you immediately go up a 14-day ban. And then after that, say something like "you're bad" to someone, and now you're permabanned. In this case, which player created a more negative experience for more players? Likely the former, despite being treated far more leniently. Though, thinking about it a bit more, it's probably for PR reasons that the zero-tolerance part of the system exists.
UMonky (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kei143,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=MtjH0dX7,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-02T22:31:04.318+0000) > > It takes on average 3 months of playtime to drop 1 punishment tier. 14 day ban is tier3, so you might have dropped down to tier2 (which means your next punishment is a t3 punishment), but the use of Zero Tolerance phrases skips 2 tiers of punishment, which brings you over t4, which is permaban. > > I'm more concerned about for your punishment, where you called it a minor incident when you used a Zero Tolerance phrase. It means you have no idea what got you punished and probably will use it again, and the same would happen. Thank you for the input on how the ban tiers work, I appreciate it. I still feel its very broken though.
Since he didn't explain what zero tolerance words are, they're words that include things like racial, ethnic or homophobic slurs.
: Ban Request "MUST"
There is no way to ensure that someone is banned. However, you can submit a support request to report someone, and it will trigger a review. Based on what you said they said, that may be enough to trigger an escalation to 14-day ban immediately, though it may not be considered not toxic enough for that and merely contribute towards chat restrictions.
Hotarµ (NA)
: Quick reminder to new (and frequent) Player Behavior users!
Now I'd just like to see upvotes/downvotes removed from this board.
Kailyou (EUW)
: The problem behind the report system
They really need to add a loading screen tip or something that mentions that 1 report is equal to 9, and there's no point in asking for other players to report someone. It's not the current system that's the issue, it's a lack of knowledge about the system and how poorly Riot does in informing players how it functions.
: League is a primitive game
Riot will never enable voice chat between players who are not in a party. There's just too many issues when it comes to moderation there. First, there's the issue of accuracy. An algorithm would need to either be more lenient than Riot is willing to accept to avoid false positives, or keep it just as strict as it is for text chat and get a shitload of false positives, with things like "kill the Pyke" being misinterpreted as antisemitism or homophobia. Second, the algorithm would treat people who speak in different ways differently, opening Riot up to accusations of sexism, racism and ableism that they simply do not want to deal with.
: It's not against the rules but it certainly doesn't make one a victim. More like a bully who got bullied back, I would feel no remorse
Well, that's your feeling. That is not, however, how this game's punishment system works. If its sees two people breaking the rules, it doesn't care who started it. It will punish both, assuming both were reported. And you are also not allowed to make up rules that you feel should exist, then attempt to enforce said rules.
: Do you believe in Justice? If I get robbed and then I rob an innocent person then by definition I'm wrong. If I get robbed and then I hunt down my robbers and rob them then is it the same thing? I should not be allowed to punish random and innocent people I 100% agree, but punishing a perpetrator is by definition what we all do. These guys were not innocent, they deserved to be punished
Yes, if you did this there is a good chance you would be charged with a crime, as well. Vigilantism is not allowed in most justice systems.
: Read what he said; "_**ruin the experience for my allies**_". These allies don't deserve a good experience when they try to do their best to ruin someone else's experience. Thousands of players every single day respect their ally's decision to play an off meta champion even if they disagree with the pick, these people in my game don't deserve the same kind of respect
You locked Veigar and informed your team you were going to intentionally feed. Your team did not have an issue with you picking an off-meta champion. They took issue with the fact that you were going to (and did) intentionally feed.
: 14 day ban, 1st offense, please read
I think you misinterpreted one statement. > [{quoted}](name=Oddysseas,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=52AZEgYO,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-01T07:33:11.551+0000) > > 2. "The way out of the penalty box is to play to win without ruining the game consistently". Given that most of my games I get at least 1 honor by my team, the devs know this of course, this is the first time I've done this and of course my 80% winrate today proves this fact. I am not ruining people's games consistently in fact I'm more often than not carrying my team to the win. I rarely vote yes on surrender votes and even when we're getting beaten badly I always try to get objectives as a jungler and win. It seems that you think this is telling you to not be consistently breaking the rules. What's it's telling you, however, is to consistently not break the rules.
: @jamaree by saying this you discredit every person ever who respected their teammate's decision to go with an off-meta pick
Could you explain your logic on that one? I'm actually kind of curious how you reached that conclusion.
: 14 day ban, 1st offense, please read
First, let's get one thing out of the way: banning a teammate's intended pick is not against the rules. If you believe this should not be the case, bring it up on these boards, or another discussion board/forum. And there are people that agree with you on that subject, though I don't think it's anywhere near the majority. What you are not allowed to do is attempt vigilante justice, as you have done here. And remember that you didn't just ruin the game for the player who banned your intended pick, you also ruined the game for the other 3 members of your team, as well. As far as punishments go, it doesn't matter what other players do on your team. If you intentionally feed or otherwise troll, or if you use chat in an abusive manner and you're reported, it will treat you individually and not even consider the actions of other players. If you feel someone is breaking the rules or otherwise being a toxic player, report them and let the system handle it. You are not a moderator.
rujitra (NA)
: I understand this, but am not sure why it's important. An action that one knows is wrong is an action one will virtually never take, no matter the mindset. Players shouldn't be thinking about "why was I doing this", they should be thinking "I shouldn't do this, period". Further, other players chat being provided opens the door for a myriad of other problems, for very little benefit.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=5AvVKjE4,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-01T05:05:44.132+0000) > > I understand this, but am not sure why it's important. An action that one knows is wrong is an action one will virtually never take, no matter the mindset. No, that's not how everyone works. Not everyone has perfect self-control. In fact, most people don't have the self-control you're describing. If you have that, that's great. It probably helps you succeed at many things. But if so, you're far better than the vast majority of people in this regard. Providing the chat of other players may help players realize the situations that turn them into toxic players, which they can then work to avoid, or if avoiding it is impossible, realize at that point they should just shut up. And I'm also not suggesting players post the chat logs including the chat of other players when they create threads on here. Doing so would just give us more crap to sift through and ultimately would detract from the conversation. And I do agree that it would open the door to other problems if they were provided as default. I think a lot of players would see that and start making excuses, resulting in overall fewer players reforming. That's why I suggested they only be made available upon request to support, for people like the OP that want to do a more thorough review of what they did wrong.
: You Can Defend Yourself Without Retaliating.
This thread fits into an idea I had recently: this board needs an FAQ post sticked to the top. It would address frequently discussed topics such as the topic of this thread, why someone got permabanned after a 14-day ban, and a bunch of other things that we explain on this board on a daily basis.
rujitra (NA)
: They do this exactly because of people like you. They show you only your chat so you realize that **only your chat** matters. It does not matter what everyone else did. It only matters what you do. It doesn’t matter if you were responding to someone, if they started it, if they were worse, if they were trolling, etc. It only matters what you do. They only give you your chat log so that you realize that your punishment is based on what you did, and the rules are applied to what you did - not what other people did - when determining your punishment.
I think you're missing his point. I think his point is that if he saw the full chat log, he'd better understand the mindset he was in and why he said the things he said, and be better able to address and avoid such behavior in the future. Though, personally, I'm not sure it would work that way for most people. Perhaps the full chat log of the game could be made available upon request?
: What's the punishment for holding game hostage with endgame spoilers?
As much as I'd like it to be punishable, it's probably unreasonable to add it into the IFS. Seriously, though, fuck the people that do that.
: He was simply toxic: "u must be dumb" This is a pointless thread, where even the chatlogs show how toxic he was. All of these threads tend to be downvoted, when the punishment is obviously justified. Ps.: BTW using a bot army is not a bad idea, i'll start workin' on it :D
If that's what you think, you don't understand the point of this board at all. It's not here to shit on people who were punished. It's not here for people to circle jerk about how virtuous they think they are. It's here to discuss the punishment system, and for people to ask questions about it and their punishments. The latter is what the OP was doing here. I see no reason to downvote a thread where someone is using the board in its intended manner.
: Is building something that is entirely useless on a champion disruptive behavior?
Building the "wrong" items is not, or at least should not be, a bannable offense, unless no part of the item has any use whatsoever to the champion building it and the player building it clearly knows that. In this case, Kha'Zix gains some benefit from 5/6 parts of Ardent Censer, and that increases to 6/6 if he's using the Font of Life rune. Also, naming and shaming
Raigar (NA)
: hahaha this two week ban is actually ridiculous (game log inside!)
Is someone running a bunch of bots that just comes in here and auto-downvote every single thread where someone posts their chat logs or something?
Julevi (EUW)
: Gotta agree that it's hard to bring up an effective rewards system as I struggle with this topic aswell. In my opinion it's kinda complicated. On the one hand I think it's my duty to support my team even when I don't benefit at all plus it's often my fault for dcing so I should stand up for it. On the other hand it's understandable that Riot can not count on this feeling alone and therefore people complain about the lack of rewards. Beside that other problems will raise aswell - e.g. people going afk on purpose and then coming back to get atleast a bit LP (when their team wins).
> [{quoted}](name=Julevi,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WQfXBEkM,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-28T17:30:29.320+0000) > > Beside that other problems will raise aswell - e.g. people going afk on purpose and then coming back to get atleast a bit LP (when their team wins). I don't think that'd be much of a problem, for two reasons: 1. I don't think people would really do that much, if at all. After you disconnect, you only have a rough idea of when the game will end. AFKing but coming back before the game ending would likely take so much effort to make sure you don't miss the end of the game that you may as well have just played the entire thing. 2. The vast majority of the time when a team has a player disconnected for a significant portion of the game they're going to lose.
: Believe what you want but I'm looking into this, I'm thinking about legal action for the money I spent on the game, I'm thinking of calling there main riot building in los angeles. I'm just so angry and frustrated. if I really did do it I wouldn't even bother with this cause I know how toxic some of the community is (which I blame for this) and make a new account but that makes me feel like they win and I don't see why I should when I did nothing and getting punished for it, so I'm looking into it. I've sent my ticket in from the website support section now ill wait till tomorrow and see if I get a response.
Hopefully you didn't mention legal action in your ticket. If you did, support will be completely uncooperative as it would now be beyond the scope of their job.
: I got banned for scripting when i have never scripted before.
Are there any games on your account that you don't recognize? It's fairly common that the people who make these scripts will illegitimately access another person's account and use it to advertise their scripts.
: > [{quoted}](name=ZackTheWaffleMan,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1gFdVTbA,comment-id=0002000000000003000000000002,timestamp=2019-04-26T17:53:40.088+0000) > > no, it isn't. mute, report, and move the fuck on. they're not worth your effort well said... But that's your opinion. I might prefer to say something back if someone is arrogant enough to comment on my gameplay in the first place. Especially if it's a rude comment.
That's not his opinion, that's Riot's policy.
Jopskins (EUW)
: pls ban me
rujitra (NA)
: Let’s say someone told you that you had a 2 liter bottle of water that had 1 liter of water in it, so it’s 50% full. They then tell you that they add in a faucet above the bottle that drops 10 ml/min into the bottle (this is like players getting banned). But, they also tell you that the bottle is growing in size by 20ml/min as well (this is like new players playing League - not new accounts, but people). What is the percentage after 10 minutes? Well, after 10 minutes, you have 100 ml added to the bottle (1100 ml total), and the bottle has grown to be 2200 ml in size. Thus, you have 1100/2200 = 50% full bottle still. This is the same as what happens with League. Players leave the game and are replaced by newer players. While yes, players may get banned, you also have new players coming in who do **not** get banned.
That's true, but I don't see how it relates to the subject at hand. The argument isn't that the proportion should always be increasing because more players are getting banned than are joining the game. You'd think simple random variance would change it somewhat. And more importantly, the standards for moderation have changed over the years, as well as the algorithm itself. That should change the number significantly. And also, given the relatively low standards for receiving a permaban, that number has always looked absurd to me at face value. Only one in every ~17000 players gets permabanned? That's an extraordinary claim for which I need more than Riot saying so to believe.
: Account Ban for 14 days
: i think what it is is people know and don't care and try to spread the lie that it is not reportable and ask others to report anyway
I find that unlikely. The only place where you can find it (outside these boards) is in a support article that most people aren't going to read until they've been hit with chat restrictions or a ban. It's also not the most intuitive, because there are a lot of games where number of reports does matter (just look at WoW, where volume of reports alone can hit you with a temporary silence until review by an overworked moderator in a guilty until proven innocent system). Then there's the fact that the vast majority of toxicity is raging at or arguing with teammates, not some plot to get other people banned.
: Did you know.......
Most of us here know that But I'd guess a far, far smaller proportion of the general population of the game know.
: I Got Chat Banned and would like to repeal.
First, don't post multiple copies of the same thread. Second, this is not where you go to appeal a punishment. All we can do here is help you understand why you were punished and how to avoid behavior that will get you punished in the future.
: > [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7hY7mjg5,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-04-21T06:50:57.234+0000) > > Have you tried that "forgotten password" feature that's linked in your screenshot? Yeah nothing goes to my email tho its weird. I even tried the forgotten username and only 5 of the 40 accounts assigned to that email show up.
Did the accounts possibly get compromised? If you're banned, it will tell you you're banned. Your computer may have been compromised and someone was able to gain access to them that way, though it would be odd for what I'm guessing are less frequently used ones to be compromised while the one you were banned on is fine. I assume you've carefully checked your input of both the username and the password for them? Made sure you're definitely hitting all the right keys and all the keystrokes are actually registering?
: Can you just take the hint? 40 bans means Riot doesn't want you playing this game
That's not what he's claiming. He's not saying he got banned 40 times, he's saying he had 40 accounts and all were banned for this one game.
: Riot IP Banned All 40 of my Accounts
Could you provide some of the reform cards from when you log into accounts other than that account (include the entire client in the screenshot), or whatever comes up when you attempt to log in to them? Riot has explicitly stated that they do not IP ban, so if your claim is that they are in fact IP banning it'd be nice to have more to go on that just your word. To my knowledge, they will also not ban one account for the actions of another account.
: If I Report Someone I Don't Want To Get Que'ed With Them Again
I'm just imagining the shitshow Challenger would turn into if they did this A lot of pro players would probably have to have hidden smurfs just to get into a game.
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