: [Spoilers] Lux: Issue Nr. 5 - Feedback, Discussion and Questions
> This was a fun series to do, but I don't think I'll post about every issue for the following Zed comic. {{champion:238}} "Do not deny me."
: Honestly, any of them. I don't have any strong preference for any faction/region & would prefer to see more of Runeterra progress. I would also like to see Bandle City get an actual story/plot thread to progress in the 1st place. Ionia got numerous threads going on due to how large the faction & roster is. Speaking of Ionia, isn't one of the Marvel comic series suppose to center around {{champion:238}}? Hopefully it isn't just a flashback comic. I would like to see some actual progression on the Freljord front. While the {{champion:22}} comic was nice, it was essentially an origin story that took place in the past.
It does contain flashback _scenes_ as typical comic readers and most league players don’t actually know who Zed is, why he fights, or even why he and Shen have beef. (The boards users’ knowledge level is much higher than the average joes—actually most league players knowledge of lore comes **only** from VO) Like the Lux comic, the Zed comic starts in the recent past, but will begin advancing the timeline around its midpoint. But even in this recent past, for the people that already know Zed, Shen, and Jhin’s lores there’s a lot of new stuff you will discover.
: Riven's ideals and "the pure noxian vision" ?
I think Riven discovered Noxus wasn't really a meritocracy. What it professes to be and believe in and its behavior don't always line up. Believing in strength and merit based advancement has to be _balanced_ (hint) with a level playing field and honorable conduct.
: Face reveal for Jhin or not? Please, tell me it isn't so. That's all I'm worried about and have been worried about for months. I just want to know if I'll loose my favorite champion or not.
If u see a face. Is that his real face?
: His color story has an unwritten 4th part, which I assume would be the "end" of his story. Also here's a screenshot pf the Rioter comment: https://i.imgur.com/wXcr4xq.png[]
Yeah but also no. To clarify. I didn't mean it would wrap up in one more chapter of prose. Only that the story would be followed up on and that, that color story was intentionally left incomplete— because that kinda was the point of it. (Jhin is a psyco-killer on the loose.) Damn, 4-step you’re an expert though. You find all these deep backgrounds quotes.
: Could Shen and Zed actually catch Jhin?
I was the narrative designer for Jhin, I wrote that story, I was his VO writer and director.... Aaand I’m the writer of the new marvel ZED comic. So I can probably answer your question... Buuuut i’m not gonna!!! (hah!) The Zed comic is, not surprisingly, hyper-focused on Zed. But I will say Zed, Kayn, Akali, Shen, Jovn Tau, and Jhin are all on the cover... And it’s coming soon. I will say there’s a couple of big misdirections in that old Jhin story. I’m not gonna say what —but that story is gonna go down... and not in the way you might think. P.S. Getting rito attention is usually pretty simple. 1. Post on the forums (or reddit but u need a lot more upvotes to rise above the noise there) 2. Be polite and concise. Few people are gonna take time out of their day to be ranted at or read ninety pages. 3. Get enough votes/views to get on the “hot”level so we notice the post. (its actually a pretty small number.) 4. Hope that somebody actually has an answer. (Sometimes things are in flight and we don’t know or can’t comment... kinda like now)
: Who would win(lorewise): Zed V.S Pyke
This is close and weird matchup. My 2cents. It's worth mentioning Zed was a Kinkou a sort of spirit world/ paranormal police-- and his master was a renown demon-hunter and ghost-hunter. So my money is on Zed. He has the know-how and experience for this sort of problem.
: Odd Lore Question: Do Champions(or just Runeterrans in general) wear underwear?
iiGazeii (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=WAAARGHbobo,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Z1MHdAEd,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-05T21:01:30.750+0000) > > Actually the outfit Illaoi's wears in game was never meant to represent her ceremonial outfits or her everyday wear back home. This is an outfit she chose for Bilgewater, a city which her people think of as something between a filthy ghetto and a refugee camp. > > I doubt she has a “dress” per say— more likely a sarongs, loincloths, and other unisex garments for everyday wear depending on the weather. Ceremonial clothes are often made for the various events and holidays (and often destroyed after). I dunno, Illaoi in a sundress and sunhat would be a pretty amazing look for her.
: > [{quoted}](name=WAAARGHbobo,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Z1MHdAEd,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-07-06T23:59:56.048+0000) > > So the island she lives on is a theocracy, but other islands have separate governments. Buhru is like Vatican city for the cult of Nagakaborous. There are even other gods. Though worth noting “Buhru” is often used as a shorthand for any island where Nagakaborous is the primary religion. Suddenly I wanna know a lot more. So do they have a pantheon of gods, or do different peoples on the island believe in different gods? Is bilgewater on it's own island or do they share space directly with some of the buhru etc people
This hasn’t been explored in detail but the assumption was always they have a pantheon, with various islands favoring various gods. Obviously as a region of islands, the sea god (Nagakaborous) is pretty important universally. Bilge is a city, originally of refugees. Bilgewater-ians and outsiders aren't allowed on other islands and generally avoid the rest of the island. Though there are exceptions - esp as the islands had historic ties to Icathia, Ixtal and some other southern empires.
GenoXx (NA)
: I see. Thanks for the answer. That's very interesting hear. I also find her perspective on bilgewater interesting too. I was asking this question when thinking what were Illaoi's feminine features. I know this may be stretching a bit, but does the people of Buh-ru keep a strong religious sense of style where they live?
So the island she lives on is a theocracy, but other islands have separate governments. Buhru is like Vatican city for the cult of Nagakaborous. There are even other gods. (And thus other fashions) “Buhru” is often used as a shorthand for any island where Nagakaborous is the primary religion. This is to say yes there is styles, but it varies a fair amount and relates in some ways more to ixtal fashions. Because unlike most valoran places- the buhru have cultural ties to that civilization.
GenoXx (NA)
: Random lore Question: Has Illaoi ever wore a dress?
Actually the outfit Illaoi's wears in game was never meant to represent her ceremonial outfits or her everyday wear back home. This is an outfit she chose for Bilgewater, a city which her people think of as something between a filthy ghetto and a refugee camp. I doubt she has a “dress” per say— more likely a sarongs, loincloths, and other unisex garments for everyday wear depending on the weather. Ceremonial clothes are often made for the various events and holidays (and often destroyed after).
: > [{quoted}](name=WAAARGHbobo,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=n1pAaEN4,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-27T23:11:27.028+0000) > > I'm not sure I understand your question. But yes hopefully we will be showing more of what the Kinkou do and conflicts they are involved in. I'm sorry about being unclear. what I meant was, will we get lore of the more traditionally minded Ionians being in the right? for example, Akali left the order because she believes what shen and the kinkou order is doing is wrong, being passive and whatnot to the war efforts. so while she may have a point, is it not so black and white? was she wrong to have left the order and believe they should fight? I know I'm bad at explaining my questions and am sorry about that. however, even though you said "hopefully", the chance that we get more kinkou order lore is awesome enough for me. thank you for taking the time to answer. it really is appreciated
Okay. I think I get what your asking. Yeah, speaking from my perspective. Akali (and Zed before her) leaving the Kinkou order isn't cut and dry. On the one hand people were dying, on the other they are a supposed to be dedicated to something higher than a dispute between mortals.
: > [{quoted}](name=WAAARGHbobo,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=n1pAaEN4,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-26T03:29:00.498+0000) > > "balance of good an evil" . > > Actually this is not exactly the balance they/we are talking about now. (It might have been in old lore). There is an acceptance of duality and that good and evil are codependent on each other. But generally these characters are talking about: the Balance of elements; the Balance of emotions; And esp the Balance between the magical and physical. > > Ionia is a land blessed, and cursed by an abundance of spirit magic. Often we describe this as the borders between the material realm and spirit realm are weak here-- esp in the forests and highlands. And magic is a dangerous thing. In moderation it can make your village's life better. More food, less disease, longer lives, better ping speeds (okay maybe not that one). But it also can be fickle and deadly. And overusing or allowing to it to overrun an area, or having it interact with your emotions, invites unwanted guests, consequences, and changes. And in its pure form or when very strong it is lethal to us. (or so changing as to transform us into something we wouldn't recognize (see Ivern, brand, that odd shaped owl which screams outside my window, etc..)). Some magic is good. But you have to be careful. > > Now The Vastaya (Like Rakan and Xayah) and other magical creatures need magic to survive-- in way like we need oxygen or water. It's naturally a part of them-- they are made in part of it. So the restriction of it, harvesting of it, damning (as in holding back) of it-- restricts them. Imagine if an alien race appeared on our planet and set up cities around the globe and fields and farms... and in those large swathes of land they greatly restricted the amount of oxygen or began claiming and storing large areas of the fresh water we needed. We might attack them... and we have nukes. > > So these magical creatures, places, and stranger things can be helpful or dangerous-- but you have to be careful not to over restrict magic or overuse magic-- to avoid attracting dangerous creatures and unwanted magical effects. wow two rioter posts on my threads in one day. that's very good explanation of the Vastaya conflict, thank you. it I may ask, will we see more perspective in line with the kinkou order? in terms of the warring conflict at least
I'm not sure I understand your question. But yes hopefully we will be showing more of what the Kinkou do and conflicts they are involved in.
: Feels like if Volibear wants to finish the job then he could. I think we can say that Volibear/Ornn/Anivia are much more powerful than the other demigods and are essentially, the Big Three. I'm cinfident to aay that Lissandra won't be able to remove Ornn or Volibear at all. Also, were you thinking of Blackforst Anivia when you said Liss plans on corrupting her?
I'm not sure I would put "the big three" above the other spirit gods. Let's just say those gods' avatars have been more active, more recently in the parts of the world we've collectively been looking at... currently. ( wow, that was a mouthful) Also your big three forgets about _Kindred_ {{champion:203}} (which has many forms but the in-game one is almost assuredly the southern Freljordian depiction of that spirit.) {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
: Ionia and the Kinkou ideal of balance
"balance of good an evil" . Actually this is not exactly the balance they/we are talking about now. (It might have been in old lore). There is an acceptance of duality and that good and evil are codependent on each other. But generally these characters are talking about: the Balance of elements; the Balance of emotions; And esp the Balance between the magical and physical. Ionia is a land blessed, and cursed by an abundance of spirit magic. Often we describe this as the borders between the material realm and spirit realm are weak here-- esp in the forests and highlands. And magic is a dangerous thing. In moderation it can make your village's life better. More food, less disease, longer lives, better ping speeds (okay maybe not that one). But it also can be fickle and deadly. And overusing or allowing to it to overrun an area, or having it interact with your emotions, invites unwanted guests, consequences, and changes. And in its pure form or when very strong it is lethal to us. (or so changing as to transform us into something we wouldn't recognize (see Ivern, brand, that odd shaped owl which screams outside my window, etc..)). Some magic is good. But you have to be careful. Now The Vastaya (Like Rakan and Xayah) and other magical creatures need magic to survive-- in way like we need oxygen or water. It's naturally a part of them-- they are made in part of it. So the restriction of it, harvesting of it, damning (as in holding back) of it-- restricts them. Imagine if an alien race appeared on our planet and set up cities around the globe and fields and farms... and in those large swathes of land they greatly restricted the amount of oxygen or began claiming and storing large areas of the fresh water we needed. We might attack them... and we have nukes. So these magical creatures, places, and stranger things can be helpful or dangerous-- but you have to be careful not to over restrict magic or overuse magic-- to avoid attracting dangerous creatures and unwanted magical effects.
: it was a yes or no kind of question xD
Sashamica (EUNE)
: I see, i totally didn't read that, but i'll go ahead and read it now, sounds like an undiscovered side of him for me, which is so exciting to find out
Actually he’s about 3 to 4 years older than Zed, and zed is about 34-35 currently.
Moody P (NA)
: What would happen to the Ursine if Volibear died?
Is The Volibear seen in that story what the ursine have lost themselves to? And if you can kill the most powerful avatar of a god... Does that kill that god? Does killing a vessel-- free other vessels? Avatars, gods, and demigods oh my! {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
Salty Nami (EUNE)
: Fight, or be forgotten! (Lore of Aatrox)
Nice job! I love most of the acting choices. Can’t wait for the next one. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
patmax17 (EUW)
: Thanks for sharing! I've also been reading mostly manga my whole life and only recently started buying a few american comics (Ms.Marvel in particular), and they are definitely different in terms of pacing and character developement. Though my sample size is still really narrow, I have to read some more before making any sensible statements ^^ What do you think of My Little Pony? I definitely liked the first two seasons, though I stopped watching it around mid-fourth season.
I like it. Its not exactly my cup of tea, but I think its probably the best "magical girl" show. (even though the magical girls in this case are ponies)
: Ah so you know it pretty well and here I was like, he probably knows who bendis is but who knows? lol Kirkman and Bendis are pretty great. What you guys do with the lore reminds me maybe most of all of DC and Marvel though, because you've put a lot of time into taking old ideas and trying to bring out what's cool in them in the modern lore, or reinvent them a bit in a cool new way. Ultimate spider-man was the initial comic that got me into comics for a while before I fell out of it again myself. I was really into rick remender, grant morrison, matt fraction, greg rucka etc for a while there
I love Rucka's stuff. prob my . favorite american comic writer.
patmax17 (EUW)
: I definitely liked what you did with the freljord, their culture has a distinct and interesting flair that I love, and I appreciate that it makes sense in the context of the region: survival is difficult, and thus there's a strong sense of family and protecting women and their offspring, and fighting and war are important parts of the everyday life, since tribes have to fight over the scarce resources. I was wondering: what is the relation between the different Oathbounds a Warmother has? I.e., how do they see each other? I guess they all live together and thus spend their time with one another, but does it matter if they like each other? What happens if a Warmother takes an Oath from a man her other Oathbounds don't like? Can they say anything? And/or on the other hand, can Oathbounds love other Oathbounds? Overall I think the family of a Warmother has resemblance to an open relationship, and these are situations that do arise
Homosexuality probably isn’t taboo in the freljord. Unless it affects your obligations— and roles. But probably gender norms are pretty severely enforced. (Though what they consider “normal” is very far from what we would recognize). I think the relationships between the various oathbound are kinda up in the air. Sometimes brotherhood and a tight bond other times drama and fighting. I dont think these bonds are taken lightly and thus aren't done without a fair amount input and discussion. It would be poor leadership to force someone on the group. But its important to keep in mind they have very different idea of marriage than we do. It’s about protection instead of property. So probably unit cohesion and battle synergy is a marriage consideration too. You might “marry” someone because love them, but more often you are marrying them because you think they are strong and will protect your children—you might especially marry someone because you already have different lover/spouse and are looking for a way to secure your current children's position. I think several if not most of Grena’s oathbound never slept with her— maybe they were single, maybe they had families (which would make those kids “kin of kin” and thus a part of grena’s family/retainers. Maybe they married her to cement the peace between tribes. And I think Grena married Yriel because he was a natural leader and a strong warrior. He completed the unit because he was older, experienced, and got along well with the other men. Then seeing him lead, working with him, Grena fell for him. Hopefully the complexity is all something we can see Sejuani and Ashe struggling with in the future. Because i will say— in my proposed timeline. Tryndamere is not the first man ashe asked to “marry” her.
: I know you said to look at the other thread for other purchase options, but I want to ask here anyway. I tend to buy my books in person at Barnes&Noble, do you know if you guys will eventually market there or no?
that's probably store by store. I would hit their online stock list.
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=WAAARGHbobo,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=waZyGtNY,comment-id=00030002000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-15T22:07:44.579+0000) > > I read manga as a kid and teen, (I'm old, so it was kinda the first wave-- i.e. when Akira, Appleseed, Ranma 1/2 etc first landed) , but didn't really get into American comics till art school. My college roommate (Chris Walton a concept artist-- his stuff is good check it out) was horrified that I hadn't read Dark Knight, Sin City, Xmen, etc.. He literally put a pile of Hellboy books on my bed and told me he couldn't live with me if I didn't read them. I did. Then bought my own copies (and later some BPRDS) > > After that, I kept up with comics, buying mostly Dark Horse and Image ..in addition to manga purchases. > > I was never an every Wednesday guy, but I went to the comic shop once a month and bought stuff. However, I think my buying reached it's peak when i was working on_ The Walking Dead_ TV show and the first version of Bendis's _Powers_ (The FX version never aired. The Sony one you can download-- i didn't have anything to do with). Because I ended up talking to Kirkman and Bendis about comics writing during those shows-- I never thought I was gonna work in comics-- but I was trying to understand where they were coming from and how to better work with them. Their viewpoints really helped me understand of the medium's artistic language and made me appreciate American comics more. (I think my taste in terms of pacing and storytelling still leans towards manga though) > So I was probably going to comic store every Saturday during that period of my life. > > But my wife then having a baby cut it completely out for a couple years... I was too busy being tired. And my wife (who also reads them) was too tired to read them, let alone have fun convos about them. > > Fast forward 5 years and I started going to the shops again (a little before I started writing Ashe) because my daughter was older.... and she loves, loves, loves the Avatar and My Little Pony books. So now I'm going almost every other week. I usually buy a floppy or two for me plus a trade or graphic novel and then a graphic novel and couple floppies for her. > > sorry. > -long answer Odin I never asked you, and I would love to know, how come you're so passionate for the Freljord? I know every writer has some preference but I would love to know about yours and how you discovered it :) I know for me it is the thematic, I love winter as I was also born in January. I would also say that I like all freljordian champions, my dear Lissandra of course the most. She probably got me into lore and the Freljord. Love her voice as it is incredibly stunning, her queen-like,posh attitude, her mind... I love the fierceness she displays, the power she shows. I love her Archetype... Thats my short story, I wonder about yours :)
Well my real name is Odin. So I kinda feel like I've been hyper-aware of all the shitty version of norse myths and that sort of germanic gothic fantasy my whole life... and largely disappointed by how it was approached by media. (Thor: Ragnarok being the first I've liked) But also as an American, I was interested in finding a way to make those myths more universal-- so even prior to working on it I was always looking for (and finding) parallels to-and-with Native American cultures, northern asian cultures, and norse cultures. **But probably a much, much more important factor was when I started at riot no cared about the Freljord. ** A lot of the chief mucky-mucks thought it was kinda a dumpster fire-- and didn't care about it. So unlike Noxus or Demacia, I knew if I did some work in the freljord I wouldn't have to go thru ninety layers of approvals and feedback. So I might actually get to do something cool and unique. Actually, a lot if not most, of the work I've done in riot were in the places our IP that our leadership didn't like, places that didn't previously exist, or characters leadership didn't have strong opinions on how everything should be. ( Illaoi from buhru in bilgewater, Freljord, the vastaya, mythical creatures of legend, a ninja's dead dad etc...)
: the pacing was good! its hard to tell stories in the limited space comics allow but I thought you did a really impressive job with it anyway. even very experienced comic writers struggle with this all the time. I mean, bendis is terrible at it lol. just remind yourself you did a way better job with a limited series than he's ever done, and hes the guy that made avengers relevant and created miles morales. I thought you effectively covered a lot of ground while keeping the story centered pretty firmly on ashe becoming a leader, and it never felt like you were being too wordy or expositional either. Out of curiosity do you read american comics? or did you in the past?
I read manga as a kid and teen, (I'm old, so it was kinda the first wave-- i.e. when Akira, Appleseed, Ranma 1/2 etc first landed) , but didn't really get into American comics till art school. My college roommate (Chris Walton a concept artist-- his stuff is good check it out) was horrified that I hadn't read Dark Knight, Sin City, Xmen, etc.. He literally put a pile of Hellboy books on my bed and told me he couldn't live with me if I didn't read them. I did. Then bought my own copies (and later some BPRDS) After that, I kept up with comics, buying mostly Dark Horse and Image ..in addition to manga purchases. I was never an every Wednesday guy, but I went to the comic shop once a month and bought stuff. However, I think my buying reached it's peak when i was working on_ The Walking Dead_ TV show and the first version of Bendis's _Powers_ (The FX version never aired. The Sony one you can download-- i didn't have anything to do with). Because I ended up talking to Kirkman and Bendis about comics writing during those shows-- I never thought I was gonna work in comics-- but I was trying to understand where they were coming from and how to better work with them. Their viewpoints really helped me understand of the medium's artistic language and made me appreciate American comics more. (I think my taste in terms of pacing and storytelling still leans towards manga though) So I was probably going to comic store every Saturday during that period of my life. But my wife then having a baby cut it completely out for a couple years... I was too busy being tired. And my wife (who also reads them) was too tired to read them, let alone have fun convos about them. Fast forward 5 years and I started going to the shops again (a little before I started writing Ashe) because my daughter was older.... and she loves, loves, loves the Avatar and My Little Pony books. So now I'm going almost every other week. I usually buy a floppy or two for me plus a trade or graphic novel and then a graphic novel and couple floppies for her. sorry. -long answer
: I just left a review on amazon (and bought it), not sure how long it takes to show up. I used to read a lot of comics from a few years back, I was pretty impressed with this one and how well you adjusted to the comic format immediately. a lot of comics are either too decompressed or, worse, feel super rushed and crammed with unnatural writing, but you got the balance right in the first go imo
Thank you so much. I was a super weird transition from TV scripts. I def have things I would have done differently --mostly regarding pacing. (but also more pages for Yriel) . I learn some stuff on this book which will hopefully make me a better comix writer on the next.
: I wish I would hold my copy in my hands now but my retailer haven't got theirs yet. Well, guess I have to sneak out in my lunch break to get it. Also yeah, can't wait to donate a copy for my local library as well. Supporting the narrative team AND the local library? Sound like a win-win to me.
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: Ashe: Warmother Physical Edition Available Now!
Thanks for reminding everyone Ice! If I can make a request. For you (and everyone reading who bought the book from Amazon) please consider giving it a review. (Metrics are a thing!) . Please Please do the reviews, 'cause I really want to make make book 2!! There's not really a sticker for me begging... maybe this is closest? {{sticker:sg-soraka}} Thanx!
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=SickAnto,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=waZyGtNY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-15T11:09:04.889+0000) > > Great! You know if there are the Comic in other languages? Like, italian, spanish, deutch ecc? I believe that the physical edition is only available in english for now later there will be more languages available. However you can purchase the issues individually in many other languages on comicology, kindle, amazon. Look at the thread linked for more details.
> [{quoted}](name=The Iceborn,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=waZyGtNY,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-15T11:30:35.868+0000) > > I believe that the physical edition is only available in english. However you can purchase the issues individually in many other languages on comicology, kindle, amazon. Look at the thread linked for more details. Yeah, I think the non-english versions will be released as they are translated and printed. (At least that was the strategy last I heard).
: Shouldn't you be at the walkout
TacoBrain (EUW)
: On Nagakabouros, Celestial Bridges and Star Dragons
Wow, this is like a thesis. Can't comment on a lot of stuff as "things" are in motion.{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} But very cool, and well thought out.
  Rioter Comments
: The point I’m trying to make is that in most stories (the ones I know anyway) a demigod is just a the offspring of a god and a mortal. Sometimes a mortal obtaining some form of godly power. I don’t think riot has an official explanation for what separates a demigod from a spirit.
Demi is half, though my memory of latin is a bit rusty. Most of the greek depictions assume a god is the parent (though sex in the normal sense, frequently does not happen). I do not assume a god is the “parent” in our IP, at least not in the common use of that word. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
: Well first, which version of the alignment system? They're all slightly (or even majorly) different. From the originals view where it's only a wilderness vs civilization dichotomy to the more nuanced and contradictory 3e. The current 5e's alignment is similar to 3e but they dealt with the more glaring contradictions by not bringing them up at all. In the original D&D, Sylas is Neutral. Because there are only two extremes: Chaotic and Lawful, where Lawful actually represents civilization and honor while Chaotic represents animalistic, monsters, and the wilderness. Sylas is not honorable but he's also not aligned with the goblins. So he's Neutral. In AD&D, Sylas is True Neutral. The version of the alignment system in AD&D is worded in such a way that intentions matter, so because Sylas' actions are motivated by the desire to do good, he is not evil. He's also not good, because murder. The Lawful/Chaos dichotomy wasn't changed from the original so he's still not aligned with the goblins, so he's Neutral. In 2e, Sylas is Neutral Evil. In 2e we see Neutrality (on the good/evil alignment) shift into a weird morally blank running on instinct definition that does not fit Sylas. Evil, however, is defined as just not being good. Where good is defined as honesty, forthrightness, forgiveness, and being charitable. None of which describe Sylas. So he's evil. Chaotic has finally shifted away from just being a stand in for monstrous and wilderness, so you'd think one would put Sylas as Chaotic, however, Chaotic Evil is really strangely tied with being self-defeating and of low intelligence. And while I may believe that Sylas' actions are kinda self-defeating, he isn't stupid. Neutral Evil, however, fits well enough. They have no problem betraying their friends for personal gain, is in the description which describes the big moments in his story. In 3e, Sylas is Chaotic Evil. So 3e is probably the alignment with the most written about it, and the most strange oddities and contradictions. Which fits 3e pretty well, I love it, but I also avoid using Grappling rules because I don't feel like reading through it every time. In any case, 3e makes a push for specific actions being what determines someone's alignment. With certain actions, such as murder, almost being worth "evil points" the same is true for "chaos" points. The intention does not really matter as much in 3e. And Sylas by my reckoning has lied and manipulated a lot (earning a bunch of chaos points as lying is a chaotic action), and murdered a lot of people that by our standards seem innocent (earning a lot of evil points). It's worth noting though, that, technically in this edition being Lawful does not mean following the government. But it does determine how someone can act to be in open rebellion. For example, Princess Leia from Star Wars was a rebel, she was also Lawful Good. Because she strived for order and honor within her rebellion and was trying to create a lawful society. Sylas isn't a rebel in that way. He seems to rule his rebellion through browbeating people, which also is a mark of Chaotic Evil. In 4e, Sylas is either Good or Evil. 4e's alignment is weird. It really goes Super Good, Good, Unconcerned, Evil, Super Evil. Sure Super Good is called Lawful Good, and Super Evil is called Chaotic Evil, but the nuance of what makes a lawful or chaotic character is gone. In any case, Sylas doesn't really fit the definitions of any alignment perfectly. Unaligned means specifically not taking a stand, Sylas very much does not fit that. Evil is described as using rules to maximize personal gain, and nope. Good meanwhile gives a brief passage about the dangers of following laws that exploit others which seems to fit Sylas well, until you get to the part of not harming the unarmed and defending weakness. And remember, Sylas is a murderer. So he doesn't fit that either. It really depends on which part of Sylas you wish to emphasize. Though, personally, I think he's too complicated to fit into 4es surprisingly restrictive and limited system. In 5e, Sylas is Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Good. So a return to the more interesting and complex alignments, however 5e does not seek to rigorously define everything about alignments and leaves a lot to player and GM interpretation. 5e's alignment is also a bit more motivated by the emotional state and meaning behind the actions taken than 3e was. We also kind of lose the, what I consider great, differentiation between Lawful and following the government. Now the description of Lawful in general does say that being lawful does not necessarily mean following the laws, but then literally every description of a lawful character defines them by following the laws of society. So, Sylas not Lawful. The intentionality really takes effect on the Good/Evil axis. So we get things like "Good is not nice" and "Chaotic Good try to help others, without care for what people think about their behavior" which, yeah that's Sylas. But Chaotic Evil "are destructive and take pride in the damage they cause" which, yeah that's Sylas. Amusingly, he does not fit the Chaotic Neutral alignment at all which is defined by whimsy and lacking maliciousness, which is not Sylas.
Nice! I love that you were able to break it down into all of the editions. (They just exist in my mind as a confused jumble)
d00mface (EUW)
: That's awesome, I'm glad I wasn't just imagining things/totally off the mark! I do have to wonder though, did you ever consider using any Paradise Lost quotes in Aatrox's VO or would that have been too on the nose? Also, you've gotten me very curious about what other reference characters Aatrox might have had - are you allowed to share those? ~~Honestly the whole process behind developing Aatrox as a character sounds really interesting but I won't bombard you with more questions lol.~~ Anyways thanks for coming by this thread and responding as well as, again, for making Aatrox the supremely awesome character he is! You really killed it with him, he's perfect. P.S. As part of my final for Advanced Creative Writing this semester we've been tasked with bringing in a short piece of prose that has inspired us as writers and I already know I'm bringing in The Cage!
I don't remember them all off the top of my head. But "Macbeth" and "Richard the III" were both big inspirations too. Also certainly Trumbo's "Johnny get your gun" influenced this-- though I'm not the biggest fan of that book.
d00mface (EUW)
: Me Miserable: Aatrox as a Fallen Angel Archetype
Thank you so much d00mface! And yes you are right on the money. (Even spotting how I carefully worded the description of Aatrox's previous form.) When we were just staring on Aatrox, the main narrative pillar was "The Devil." So I absolutely looked at how that archetype was used previously-- and I absolutely did re-examine "Paradise Lost." And yep, the goal with this sort of character is to both deliver the archetype that people clearly connect with, and also hopefully find a way to make this incarnation, unique from the various characters that inspired it FYI: We usually aim to have a minimum of 3 to 5 reference characters that we can use to define the archetype's core traits in early production and to keep us from attached to a single point of reference. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Thorgram,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ZNXqyVAp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-13T14:02:02.370+0000) > > For the physical release, do you know if it will be only available on Amazon ? or if local retailer could get their hand on it ? Yes the physical issue is available on amazon, it is actually available for preorder now on the german amazon so should be in US amazon too. And I believe that LadyFaceless here on the boards preordered the physical issue in a comic store so you should be able to visit a local comic book store and already preorder :)
Also yeahs... the best way to purchase the comic is physical book from your local shop. Most comics are sold at local shops, and are selected by the retailer to showcase, carry. So buying a book there raises awareness of the books potential to that retailer. (Also they will probably flip thru your copy and might just choose to carry the book because they like it.) Also Thanx for the shoutout/reminder for everyone, Iceborn!
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=WAAARGHbobo,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=qabiFIYq,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-04-11T01:04:36.954+0000) > > I can't speak to the Lux comic. I donno where they are with it. I've only seen snippets. But you can probably apply the same math that was used for Ashe (plus 1 issue) to figure out it's release date. (I mean Marvel's schedules are pretty locked.) > > Ashe is still due for release on the day we mentioned previously. (mid may I believe) Sadly, I don't know what's in the book, and I haven't seen it. The exact insides are decided by our editors without the authors feedback (I guess?) > > Zed is spinning up production soon... and I'm not allowed to say much about him. I can say he has 6 scripts done, and first script is locked (I.e. ready for the artist). > > This is probably because we are in a place where the team doesn't have much to report... yet. (Heck. I don't even know the answers) Thank you for telling us a bit more even tho it is not even your job, that is very kind. I just have a random thought, would it be wrong to assume that we will get some more info on the next years novels by the end of this year? Thanks :)
: How it can be that we STILL have no further information regarding the upcoming comics?
I can't speak to the Lux comic. I donno where they are with it. I've only seen snippets. But you can probably apply the same math that was used for Ashe (plus 1 issue) to figure out it's release date. (I mean Marvel's schedules are pretty locked.) Ashe is still due for release on the day we mentioned previously. (mid may I believe) Sadly, I don't know what's in the book, and I haven't seen it. The exact insides are decided by our editors without the authors feedback (I guess?) Zed is spinning up production soon... and I'm not allowed to say much about him. I can say he has 6 scripts done, and first script is locked (I.e. ready for the artist). This is probably because we are in a place where the team doesn't have much to report... yet. (Heck. I don't even know the answers)
: > [{quoted}](name=WAAARGHbobo,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=HOB5Rokp,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-03-31T20:37:43.727+0000) > > Lol thanx. > > Yeah what mean is Sejuani and her scarthanes WILL know and employ battlefield tactics. Flanking manuevers, tarpits, refused flanks, feints, deceptive cavalry moves, shieldwalls, etc... this is part if being an iceborn. They are effectively professional warriors specially trained in small unit guerrilla tactics against monsters and foes with superior numbers. But even more so imagine thinking a 500 man shielwall will protect your center— then a single iceborn breaks apart your battleline with a blast of ice— before a dozen ursine slam into the now disrupted formation for cleanup. > > In an open field, Darius wins. But Sejuani will avoid that. She is brutal and approaches raiding as a job. She will try to starve your army, lead it into trsps and then bring death. Wait so Iceborns apart from Frostguard have standard military training for battle formations, flanking, military discipline etc? Is it smth only Iceborns are trained to do or do the hearthbound warriors have this skillset too? Do Avarosans also have this skillset? Or do only the Winterclaw and Frostguard have it? Also I was mostly refering to the ability of the warriors to execute those commands and their coordonation. Aka if they have military discipline. As I said above, do only the Iceborns posses this discipline? And if the normal humans do too, does that mean that Avarosans are also very military disciplined? Txs for the more info anyways Odin. You're the best!
So “standard military training” is probably a misnomer. Iceborn are raised to be warriors. They aren’t trained in a military boot camp or college. They are trained by their family and begin learning as soon as they can hold a weapon. This is a society that relies on warriors and raiding to survive.
: > [{quoted}](name=WAAARGHbobo,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=HOB5Rokp,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-03-31T18:56:49.662+0000) > > Cool! > > Three things to consider: > > Under weaknesses-> you have number 3 -> army structure. I would argue that while Ashe and Sejuani aren’t at the political-strategic level of Swain and Nasus. They have other gifts > > Tactically Sejuani is super strong. By age 15 Sejuani is shown planning a surprise attack to wipe out another tribe. This is before she grew up. She’s cunning, risk taking, and unpredictable. If your looking for a leader that might pull off some Hannibal, Gengis Khan, or Patton type tactis — she’s your girl. I’m not saying she’d obviously best Darius, Jarvan, or Irelia— but I would bet on her doing something they werent expecting or even thought was possible. > > Ashe on the other hand has that rarer gift of true leadership. People are drawn to her and she brings out the best in her top advisors and warriors. People are willing to die for her because they believe and trust in her. Thus her advisors and top people really are doing their best work because she brings out the best in them. While Swain and Lissandra’s top people probably work out of fear and politics. > > Finally Lissandra is a wild card for Ashe and Sejuani and the whole equation. If your talking about a war between nations — who is Lissandra gonna help? I.e. Swain attacked Ashe? I’d bet on Lissandra helping Ashe — and that is super dangerous for everyone. Lissy can probably match Swain strategically. She’s not a long term ally — but any plan that he has she might counter or inform Ashe of his actions. (As long as it doesn’t infer with her goals) she might even try and curry favor or plant agents in Sejuani’s tribe by countering Swain. > ( Also what are Lissy’s Real, Real goals? People should be approaching the new bio’s differently. They are an overview. We are intentionally not over- revealing. —did the bio show who Udyr was or why he was powerful? — you get that from stories. A bio can’t really convey grit, heart, intelligence or emotional struggle viscerally.) I meant it more like Freljord's armies are not rly military organised or tactical trained except for Frostguard. Aka, they might be able to use tactics like ambushes, guerila warfares etc, but they wouldn't know battle formations, or how to seize an opportunity in a battle unless Ashe Sejuani or Lissandra realise it and commands them, they wouldn't know to protect high-value targets on their side (like mages, or some tribe leaders) , or shield the archers from enemy fire. That's what I meant. About Lissandra being a wild card, this is basically under my point about divided nation. Them uniting wouldn't be certain even if it would be to ensure their survival as a nation, and if they do, there would be inner conflict in leadership and the alliance wouldn't last long. Btw I didn't expect the almighty Odin to check my thread. Thanks for coming by! {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
Lol thanx. Yeah what mean is Sejuani and her scarthanes WILL know and employ battlefield tactics. Flanking manuevers, tarpits, refused flanks, feints, deceptive cavalry moves, shieldwalls, etc... this is part if being an iceborn. They are effectively professional warriors specially trained in small unit guerrilla tactics against monsters and foes with superior numbers. But even more so imagine thinking a 500 man shielwall will protect your center— then a single iceborn breaks apart your battleline with a blast of ice— before a dozen ursine slam into the now disrupted formation for cleanup. In an open field, Darius wins. But Sejuani will avoid that. She is brutal and approaches raiding as a job. She will try to starve your army, lead it into trsps and then bring death.
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: Ancient Freljord
This is neat! Sadly, i can’t really comment on this. As obviously discovering the “truth” of the freljord’s past is a part of exploring the current story’s themes. (What is destiny? does it exist? How does your past create you and the future). But why is Lissandra the way she is? What does she really want? What was the old empire? Who was Avarosa? Etc.. these are the right questions.
: Freljord region strenghts and weaknesses analysis
Cool! Three things to consider: Under weaknesses-> you have number 3 -> army structure. I would argue that while Ashe and Sejuani aren’t at the political-strategic level of Swain and Nasus. They have other gifts Tactically Sejuani is super strong. By age 15 Sejuani is shown planning a surprise attack to wipe out another tribe. This is before she grew up. She’s cunning, risk taking, and unpredictable. If your looking for a leader that might pull off some Hannibal, Gengis Khan, or Patton type tactis — she’s your girl. I’m not saying she’d obviously best Darius, Jarvan, or Irelia— but I would bet on her doing something they werent expecting or even thought was possible. Ashe on the other hand has that rarer gift of true leadership. People are drawn to her and she brings out the best in her top advisors and warriors. People are willing to die for her because they believe and trust in her. Thus her advisors and top people really are doing their best work because she brings out the best in them. While Swain and Lissandra’s top people probably work out of fear and politics. Finally Lissandra is a wild card for Ashe and Sejuani and the whole equation. If your talking about a war between nations — who is Lissandra gonna help? I.e. Swain attacked Ashe? I’d bet on Lissandra helping Ashe — and that is super dangerous for everyone. Lissy can probably match Swain strategically. She’s not a long term ally — but any plan that he has she might counter or inform Ashe of his actions. (As long as it doesn’t infer with her goals) she might even try and curry favor or plant agents in Sejuani’s tribe by countering Swain. ( Also what are Lissy’s Real, Real goals? People should be approaching the new bio’s differently. They are an overview. We are intentionally not over- revealing. —did the bio show who Udyr was or why he was powerful? — you get that from stories. A bio can’t really convey grit, heart, intelligence or emotional struggle viscerally.)
: Mordekaiser Has Almost Definitely Never Eaten a Taco
: Oh yeah is Sejuani's helmet Kalkia's, because I noticed the similar design except the torn horn, also how did Sejuani get her own true ice weapon
1) Yes it is the helmet of the Warmother for the Winter's Claw. It was previously her mother's. 2) Now_ that_ is a story! ( Oh boy, is Sejuani a badass!) But.... Sorry. No spoilers.
Hozenb (NA)
: Thank you very much for your detailed answers, especially the part explaining the difference between Kalkia and Ashe. Kalkia did not treat Sejuani well, and I can see that she also suffered a lot from her relationship with her mom, and was hurt just as Sejuani did. I have some more question though (sorry for asking so many! I understand that you may not be able to answer them all). 1. Sejuani was abandoned by her mother, mistreated by her grandma, and this unfortunate childhood should be part of the reasons for her "realist" and somewhat cruel views. But Udyr seems to be the one that she has sought for in her whole life - the one that loved her, cared about her, and stood beside her. Did Sejuani feel less lonely with Udyr coming back to the Winter's Claw? 2. In the short story of Sejuani and Udyr, Sej did not seem to have a very strong bond with her bloodsworns (which may be my misinterpretation), and she was kind of "cold" to them. Would you say that she would be likely to avoid going into an intimate relationship given the tragedy of her family and the "betrayal" of Ashe? 3. In Sej's childhood, Grena and Ashe seem to be a motivation for her to live on in those very hard days. Now, after the incident illustrated in the final issue, she on the outside ranted on Ashe's betrayal. But how did she really feel about Ashe on the inside? Would she still hope that Ashe one day will stand with her? Thank you again for taking the time to read this.
1. Well the working title of the next book is "Oathfather" so seeing the details of that relationship will be part of it. 2. Yeah. But also Sejuani is fulfilling the traditional role expected of her as a leader. Grena was pretty cool with her bloodsworn too. More than anything else she is expected to be the leader and mother of war for this tribe. She's not expected to be nice. She's expected to have a plan and have the grit to see it through. But more importantly her coolness to them is supposed to hint at her closeness to Udyr. She values him ABOVE her bloodsworn. No one is closer or more dear to her in the Winter's Claw than Udyr. (maybe not even Bristle). Hopefully we will get to see how he has earned this trust in later stories. 3. Sejuani's rant, I think touched on how she felt pretty overtly. She loves Ashe like a sister, but she also resents and envies her. She resents that Ashe had an easy life (compared to her) and a mother that loved and protected her. When I think of the cruelty that Sejuani is capable of it comes from that pain-- that hole in her heart. She grew up tough, hungry, and mistreated. She's seen her tribe, really her extended family, _literally_ starving, beaten down, and dying. What if you were forced to live your whole life in that sort of desolation? And then you strolled into a beautiful valley in Demacia and saw an easy, comfortable, safe, bucolic life. Wouldn't you feel like you had been cheated? That your family had been cheated? And this is where Sejuani's heart hardens. She's gonna take that valley and then, in spite, want to punish those Demacian villagers. Because she's angry and hurt inside, Sejuani wants them to know the desolation and fear that she and her people had to survive.
Zapzya (OCE)
: I really liked the comic series as a whole, hoping to to get a physical copy once it’s available. I have a question about how you pick “main characters”. How do you decide who gets to have the spotlight on them whilst moving a plot forward and who gets to be the supporting cast? You have over 140 champions to pick from, developing them all would be a gargantuan task. Do you have a criteria for the champions you choose to focus on, or is it just a case by case basis? I don’t expect all of them to have the same level of development (R.I.P. Rammus), but even if you cut out the obvious supporting cast, there’s still a lot of champions left.
Generally riot has _managers_ (Product Owners) make all strategic choices. It doesn't have _craft experts _(people like me) make those calls. _Sometimes_ we (craft experts) are asked to pitch ideas. (i.e. Who should a comic star? How does magic work etc...) Sometimes not. But we don't make the call. Or even the call of what we should be working on or pitching too. With casting a book, Larger choices by Product Owners are generally discussed with _Leaders_ (managers of managers). And casting a book (like Ashe or Lux) would fall into those discussions-- after a pitch was created. I would like to be more involved directing the overall story strategy. But I'm not a manager and I'm not a fan of office politics, which seems to be the largest requirement. So maybe it wouldn't be worth it for me. (Ah behind the scenes in the the _glamorous_ world of writing for a living!) For this comic, I was given the task of working on an Ashe origin story. I didn't choose her. But, when I decided that I wanted to show her with Sejuani-- I pitched that. That direction was okay'd. And that then later allowed me to explore Sejuani and Grena as having some sort of relationship both in the real world and within Ashe's heart.
Hozenb (NA)
: Hi, Thank you for answering the readers' questions. I also have a few questions regarding the comic: 1. Sejuani, Grena and Yrael believed in and emphasized on destiny or fate a lot. The priests in issue 4 also mentioned that the "accident" will be the fate of Sejuani. Is this a culture in Freljord, or is this a belief that Lissandra tried to infuse into the people to strengthen her rule? 2. Did Ashe meet her siblings? (The other two siblings did not survive to Spring, but if Ashe was the elder sister, she would have seen them; if not, she may not have seen them) 3. Continuing the last question, why did they die so easily? Weren't they iceborn? And Grena should have a lot of resources to raise kids compared to other common people (like she took 10 bloodsworn for Ashe). 4. In the script of issue 3, it is written that Ashe and Sejuani were of the same age, but I still would like to know who is the older one. 5. Kalkia chased after and cared about Udyr when the Winter's Claw abandoned him because of his abnormal behaviors. When she knew Winter's Claw was in danger because of her mother's unrealistic ambition, she came back to lead the tribe even when she didn't want to. She also allied with a weak and poor tribe to protect and feed them (even though she may be forced by the priests to do so). It seems that she is more sympathetic and kind-hearted than Hejian and Sejuani. Would you say Kalkia's personality and vision were more similar to those of Ashe? 6. When exactly did Kalkia come back to Winter's Claw (like at what age Sejuani was?) 7. Was Urkath one of the bloodsworns of Sejuani who appeared in Silence for the Damned? 8. What was the cause of the scar on Sejuani's face?
1. "Fate" is one of the main themes of this comic, and Imho the freljord as a faction. Because the faction's earliest narrative depiction was of 3 sisters destined to fight each other. So I wove it more directly into the worldbuilding here. This is a warrior society that believes in fate and oracles etc... What is fate? Is your destiny your own? Or are we all cursed to follow some predetermined path? This is a theme hopefully all of the freljordian characters will express in different ways. 2. They died as babies. 3. I've basically assumed having magically gifted children is difficult-- in a society that probably already suffers from high infant mortality. But it hasn't been fully fleshed out at this time. 4. Honestly, I don't think about age in numbers. They are teens. They were tweens. Previously they were kids. They would be in the same grade. Exact numbers only create problems for other writers conforming to a specific timeline. So I prefer to leave wiggle room. 5. Hopefully all of the characters here are at least in some ways likeable and sympathetic. I tend to view "evil" as weakness and as a blindspot to your own selfishness. So no, I think Kalkia is very different from Ashe. She lacks Ashe's capacity for hope and as a visionary. Ashe's strongest moment for me in this comic is where she fights Sejuani-- but then reveals her deep empathy and understanding of her rival. That, in my opinion, is why she is worthy leader and hero. She cares about people. She understands feelings. But she doesn't let those feelings cloud her own moral choices. Back to: Kalkia. Ultimately, as a father, I'm not sure if I can forgive Kalkia for abandoning Sejuani to a situation she knew would be bad-- but I understand she was deeply unhappy, felt trapped, and has ultimately done the best she was capable of. She is not meant to be good or bad.... unfortunately she is tragic. 6. see 4 7. no spoilers. 8. Sejuani gets into a lot of fights. With the people in her tribe, with the Frost Priests, with her mom, and with her grandma. She's troubled. I viewed the scar as indicator of that part of her personality. Perhaps somewhere we'll examine the exact incident-- but at this point its not needed.
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: Could you also tell us frost priests are carrying true ice circles on their body,correct? How come that true ice isn't as clear and blue as Ashes bow or Kalkias helmet? And what sginificance does a stag have in freljord? (There is one mentioned in tarics bio in reference and somewhere else I can't remember)
They are carrying dark ice. (Color is a bit weird -true)
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WAAARGHbobo

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