: Lissandra's Bio Should Get Rewritten
: > [{quoted}](name=WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=idNcL4xT,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-22T15:01:48.452+0000) > > She didn’t get ice powers, she got near-immortality. Oh great then if that's it. Then one day she woke up and had ice powers and looked like in game. Excellent
No, she probably learned her ice powers herself or had them inherently. She lived long ago, when magic was stronger, and has had all the time in the world to strengthen her magic. Like any other mage in the game.
: I liked the Void when they were a player in the grand scheme of power. Having centralized fonts of power is insanely boring. If magic was growing wild out in the world, being used by whomever tripped over it then it would be a lot more fascinating.
You liked when the Void never did anything?
: Lissandra's ice powers make no sense now
She didn’t get ice powers, she got near-immortality.
: While there may be some I’d agree with you on, don’t you think you’re exaggerating?
No? Because every single complaint I have seen completely ignores the overall direction of the lore in exchange for focusing on tiny elements that don’t matter. It’s the complete unwillingness to learn, to change, or to consider that makes me annoyed, and those are the types of complaints that I’ve seen. Particularly from two users that never really have anything to contribute in the first place.
: > [{quoted}](name=WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bE0uQ87M,comment-id=00000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-22T14:37:50.688+0000) > > Yeah because the watchers are void related now. And that didn't need to happen. They are simply forcing and Void everywhere they can and its ruining the uniqueness of the nations. 3 Nations now are void related......
They’re not void related. The void is being fleshed out as the existential, reality level threat it is. It’s guven teeth, and direction. Just because the void is present doesn’t mean the story is all about the void. The regions still share “uniqueness”, though it’s clear you have no idea what you actually are saying. I’ve never even seen you use text to back up your opinions, you’re always just blabbering away about how Riot is ruining the lore. Has it ever occurred to you that you have no idea what you’re talking about? Because you don’t listen any time someone explains anything to you.
: First of all , im not the only one unhappy about the lore change , 80% of feedback was negative Second of all , i said "biggest fail **i**'ve seen" , its my opinion and im free about what i say and think , overdramatic or not . Ps: thanks for the downvote , i downvoted you too
I’d like to see where you’re pulling any of those percentages. Second of all, I don’t downvote, and I don’t care that you downvoted me. Use actual textual evidence for your discussion, find actual text that supports your opinions.
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bE0uQ87M,comment-id=000000000002,timestamp=2018-08-22T13:44:45.132+0000) > > This isn't overreacting. Lissandra's character was a strong, powerful villain who was dead-set and resolute in her plans to bring her overlords into the world, and free them from the Abyss. She was calm, calculated, and meticulous to a fault. She laid plans that had a groundwork centuries in the running, and it was all to achieve her end goal of bringing the Watchers back. > > This new lore paints Lissandra as completely spineless and a fearful child. She sells herself to the Watchers, and when they come, she throws away her sisters and then betrays the Watchers themselves, and then apparently sets out on this millennia long task of collecting all the True Ice she can find to keep the Watchers trapped, shitting herself every time they approach her in her dreams. Her motivations now are out of complete fear of the Watchers, and she no longer has the power or the infamy of being this terrifying witch who haunts the Freljord. > > Lissandra's characterization took a complete 180. This is just like they did to Karma when they updated her lore with Irelia's VGU, and it's god awful. Finally a person that understands what I'm saying ! Jesus..
It’s good to realize that both of you guys refuse to actually discuss things with people.
: > [{quoted}](name=Helixarrow,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bE0uQ87M,comment-id=000200010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-22T14:02:24.517+0000) > > What? Where was that written? Ever? > > Avarosa was only briefly mentioned in Lissandra's lore, I'm not sure you got that impression of her from Liss's lore. I dont understand what you are trying to tell me. But I don't expect us to get more avarosa lore since the only person she has connection with is Lissandra and Liss just got her lore sooo.....I don't think we will be seeing her soon.
: This is the biggest fail i've seen from riot really , i liked the other updates but this ...
No it’s not, you’re being over dramatic. Just admit that you didn’t like the change, you don’t have to say it was the worst thing. Just admit that it wasn’t for you.
Fasmodey (EUW)
: > Now is the corrupting power of the Void. Ughh... The way you described it like it is a normal thing. We are talking about unknowable nothingness that consumes everything. Nothing stands against the Void. Do you think magical ice is an exception when even celestial beings aren't?
I’m not sure what’s going on with the boards, but I’m right with you, I’m really annoyed by all these nonsensical criticisms and complaints.
: > [{quoted}](name=Fasmodey,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bE0uQ87M,comment-id=000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-08-22T14:18:05.391+0000) > > Explain please. > > I am giving arguments with explanation while you just write like "she is different." Why is different? I would like to know that. So im going to say this in simplest way. Lissandra was all about the Watchers no matter what , now she is all against them. That is a definition of a 180 degree turn.
Yeah because the watchers are void related now.
: > [{quoted}](name=WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=XHB2FjEf,comment-id=0000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-22T00:51:17.783+0000) > > It was always her goal. > > She spends most of her VO talking about burying the world in ice for goodness sake. > > You’re being petty when there isn’t reason too. Those lines have nothing to do with domination. They are pretty unclear ... In the enter the Freljord she speaks that she wants to rebuild the world in ice yes but not dominate over it like its all hers all listen to me haha..
So you personally missed that all of those lines ooze mania and ambition? You’re being willfully obtuse, and you’re doing so while spamming the boards.
: Are we going to get other cinematics too?
I can assure you that we will see more cinematics.
: > [{quoted}](name=Cetri,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=XHB2FjEf,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-08-22T00:18:44.529+0000) > > Power > > Keeping that power to herself (although a Rioter said more context on Avarosa and Serylda's deaths is in the pipeline) > > Keeping that power from going to waste because there's no world or Freljord to dominate anymore > > Dunno where you get that she worships them. > > See answer 2 > > See answer 3 > > She wants world domination, but on her own terms, and she wants a world _to_ dominate. Since when is was world domination her goal ¿
It was always her goal. She spends most of her VO talking about burying the world in ice for goodness sake. You’re being petty when there isn’t reason too.
: Is there any site filled with worse circlejerk obsessions than tumblr?
Yes, the Internet is collectively a shitty place, Tumblr isn’t special.
Cetri (NA)
: Power Keeping that power to herself (although a Rioter said more context on Avarosa and Serylda's deaths is in the pipeline) Keeping that power from going to waste because there's no world or Freljord to dominate anymore Dunno where you get that she worships them. See answer 2 See answer 3 She wants world domination, but on her own terms, and she wants a world _to_ dominate.
: All lore after and including the summoner retcon is just "official" fan fic from contracted tumblr writers
: > [{quoted}](name=WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=XHB2FjEf,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-21T23:41:53.748+0000) > > What’s your textual evidence for your position? **"In that moment, her only choices were to let all the world be consumed, or to give up what she cared for most—Lissandra sacrificed her sisters and the allies they had gathered, entombing the Watchers beneath a glacial barrier of magical ice that could never be melted.** **Lissandra soon discovered that even this elemental power was not enough. The monstrous beings she had frozen were merely slumbering, slowly tainting the True Ice around them into something darker. Now, they wandered through Lissandra’s dreams as easily as she had theirs, and always she would wake, terrified, professing her loyalty to the chilling eternity they promised.** **Ever the survivor, she gathered her remaining followers to venerate her and her departed sisters. If True Ice would delay the inevitable end of all things, then they had to gather as much of it as they could find, and scour the frozen lands for any of Iceborn descent to join their cause."** Like, why did she make the deal, then betray her sisters, then betray the Watchers, then continue worshipping them even though they scared her shitless? Then, why did she continue to murder her sister's descendents, while also amassing all the True Ice she can to keep the Watchers away, while also amassing an army of Iceborn? None of her new lore makes sense.
Yeah, you’re gonna have to explain your thought process here. This is the wrong way to present textual evidence.
: > [{quoted}](name=WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=XHB2FjEf,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-21T23:38:55.629+0000) > > It’s interesting that you feel this way. You should acknowledge that many did not get this impression. It's a pretty staunch difference in character. Lissandra was firm and resolute in her old lore, and her VO. She wanted the Watchers to come. The new one is shitting herself in fear, and trying to delay their arrival so she can keep living. That isn't Lissandra.
What’s your textual evidence for your position?
: Lissandra - Master Manipulator in Old Lore, Coward in New Lore
It’s interesting that you feel this way. You should acknowledge that many did not get this impression.
: Do Watchers still look like this?
Those could be the Freljordian depictions of Watchers.
: Then they have a lot of explaining to do {{champion:27}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:92}} Like, why would they send urgot to zaun of all places, there had to have been a deal with one of the chem barons for urgot to be forced into slavery under one of them. Singed is probably there just because that's the best place to get chems (we know he has atleast been there at one point because warwick, and he might even spend a good portion of his time there) > which leads to riven, we know singed was the one who launched the chemical attack so we know singed was in ionia with noxus`s army at one point.
Noxus wants to invade because that’s what Noxus has to do. It must always expand or it will destroy itself. Imagine many people in Zaun really don’t care who’s In charge. I imagine many chembarons could be seduced into siding with Noxus for privelages in the New Empire. Urgot was sent to die by Swain, to a prison that was basically the garbage disposal of Zaun.
: I'm very confused with Lissandra's lore update
She still does alter the perception of history. That’s one of the reasons why she was so interested in the song Nunu learned from his mother. This wasn’t a problem of Riot writing an unclear story.
GenoXx (NA)
: So.......how many more retcons are coming our way in the near future...I'm curious
It’s really quite obvious that if a champion hasn’t received the full update, their lore is liable to change a little.
Sancre (EUW)
: Blue Voidborn's existence regarding the new lore
Considering that the voidborn attacked Ryker through a vision of some kind I would say that it didn’t have a corporeal form in the first place.
: They're clearly more than just a warrior caste. This is made apparent in the new story where we're told that _only_ an Iceborn could withstand the temperatures deep in the Howling Abyss, among other statements to their strength and durability. They're definitely more than just a holy order.
But I think they gained their abilities through rigorous training, perhaps along with being of notable blood.
Jaspers (EUW)
: Understandable. Let's put it a different way. I don't like story telling where creatures/characters are just lesser beings of a more powerful one. It gets lost in the film Trope of 'kill the leader and they all fall' crap because it means these characters in reality don't matter and aren't special.
Except the voidborn do exist independently from the watchers, we have no idea how they can be defeated, but I doubt it’s as simple as “kill the leader”
SSmotzer (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Daedric Etwahl,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Qjw13gAz,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-21T10:58:43.778+0000) > > Just because they're associated with Demacia doesnt mean they're Demacians So what, they are ancient Shurimans? Like, a couple of failed magic Ascended who just decided to go to the anti-magic city of Demacia, thousands of years before it was founded?
: Cocky, edgy, doing everything "not by the book" and killing noxians
This is the level of thought I expect from the community.
Draclen (NA)
: I'm Glad that Lots of People Like the Lissandra Lore, but I Can't Say I Agree.
I think she’s definitely **not** capable of solving this problem, one because she cannot create True Ice. We do know who can however, and that would be the boy Nunu, who was empowered by the Yeti Willump. Like with many of the regions, there are multiple levels of villainy/antagonism found in the Freljord. As the Void presents an omnipresent danger, it will be the most threatening factor found in the Region. Lissandra wants to rule the Freljord, or at least ensure her own necessity to the Freljord’s survival. And maybe that’s how she wants to see herself, the only one with the capability to comprehend the enemy. Lissandra cannot allow the truth of her betrayal to surface. Because only she can stop the Void. Or so she thinks. Anyway, I think what the update accomplishes is cementing Lissandra’s position within the Narrative direction for the Lore. I’m positive that at least all recent narrative updates have been made with a consistent vision in mind.
Rioter Comments
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: Freljord unclarified Lore Questions collected
Lissandra very much regrets the loss of her sisters, so much that she instituted their reverence among her Iceborn.
: > [{quoted}](name=Emperor of Fate,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=cKr2v5E8,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-20T20:40:23.944+0000) > > its called an opinion..you know people tend to have different ones from time to time ! Really ¿ tell me more
Jøkèr (NA)
: Lissandra’s New Lore.....Whaaa???
Lissandra has to stop the void, but must also suppress the truth that would bring her ruin.
Ąkąli (NA)
: Seriously, I Want Raw Bad Guys, Villains Who Are Misunderstood.
Motivations don’t take away from a characters villainy, they just contextualize it.
: > [{quoted}](name=WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EX445cVe,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-20T19:42:03.455+0000) > > We know that Targon began on Runeterra, so they are nowhere near the origin or reality of the universe. Nagakabouros provides a much more compelling reality. We don't know if Targon began in Runeterra and we have no idea what Nagakabourosdoes at all.
Yes we do, Targon began on Runeterra and ascended to galactic presence. Mount Targon represents the remnants of the ancients, that’s why Runeterra is special to the Targonians.
: > [{quoted}](name=Quiet Dude,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=vf85j5N6,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-20T19:38:40.042+0000) > > Sometimes things change. This change is good. Now she has way more depth to her character. Grow with it. Sometimes change is good but not always. And forced change is NEVER good.
: > [{quoted}](name=WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EX445cVe,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-20T18:47:48.558+0000) > > You’re inferring too much from the story. We don’t know what exactly the lore means by The Heavens, but I don’t think it has to do with Targon. > > Even so, with enough magic anything can be done. We have no idea how magic even works at all. The heavens are the "real Targon"
We know that Targon began on Runeterra, so they are nowhere near the origin or reality of the universe. Nagakabouros provides a much more compelling reality.
: > [{quoted}](name=WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=vf85j5N6,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-20T19:30:38.300+0000) > > Except as said, the new lore gives her much more agency than afforded by her old Lore. Lissandra and her regrets fashion her into a much more interesting villain. How exactly is she a villian now ¿
Because she still seeks to spread her faith and traditions of the Iceborn. She wants to maintain the power she has garnered, and will do whatever it takes to avoid the truth of her betrayal.
: > [{quoted}](name=WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=vf85j5N6,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-20T19:23:32.341+0000) > > Lissandra’s goals no longer align with the Void’s. That does not make her a hero, as she can occupy a villainous niche between the absolutely evil, and the one who saw it clearly for what it was. But thats the thing her WHOLE character was based on the watchers and the whole part is just gone...
Except as said, the new lore gives her much more agency than afforded by her old Lore. Lissandra and her regrets fashion her into a much more interesting villain.
Terozu (NA)
: This literally has next to no relation to my post.
Sometimes I get carried away on a tangent. My bad. I’m sorry.
: Riot please, please bring back the old Lissandra lore
Lissandra’s goals no longer align with the Void’s. That does not make her a hero, as she can occupy a villainous niche between the absolutely evil, and the one who saw it clearly for what it was.
Terozu (NA)
: Before anyone says anything about Lissandra's retcon into more of a good guy.
Lissandra’s goals are not compatible with the goals of the Void. She desires a world of Ice, that’s what her entire religion is based off of, reconciling a brutal existence in the Freljord with the realities found within Ice. She fights both for her own supremacy over the world and against the coming eradication at the hands of the Watchers.
: > [{quoted}](name=WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EX445cVe,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-20T18:42:58.186+0000) > > They lived long ago, when magic made many things possible. Not sure how she would have gone about this, but it’s ancient Freljordian history at this point. > > Seems to me like they’re adding more complexity and depth to the original Three sisters. And idk if magic was that available and easy to harness to that point to reach another dimension and try to control it.
We have no idea what she meant to do or the nature of her ambitions. All we know is that she was an aspiring conqueror.
: > [{quoted}](name=WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EX445cVe,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-20T18:42:58.186+0000) > > They lived long ago, when magic made many things possible. Not sure how she would have gone about this, but it’s ancient Freljordian history at this point. It feels so random... They enslaved a fkin cosmic dragon but some silly humans from fkin runeterra tried to control them lol what is this some april fools lore parody
You’re inferring too much from the story. We don’t know what exactly the lore means by The Heavens, but I don’t think it has to do with Targon. Even so, with enough magic anything can be done.
: Attempting to command the heavens above them ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿
They lived long ago, when magic made many things possible. Not sure how she would have gone about this, but it’s ancient Freljordian history at this point. Seems to me like they’re adding more complexity and depth to the original Three sisters.
: Waiting for Vaarus. There was a memo.
Zatsukino (EUW)
: Lissandra's seems less evil and vicious in this bio... Tokogol > Kumungu ?
Wherever it is it borders Noxus so not likely.
: Universe Update - Vel'Koz & Lissandra
These were quite fascinating. The Frostguard are no longer a tribe it would seem, but a religious order. It’s also nice to clarify he timeline a bit, Lissandra has now leveled up to *hella* old. Edit: seeing as Nunu can create True Ice, he must be a pretty big deal.
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