Hibeki (NA)
: AD senna is stil being played because riot has not addressed any of her core issues
senna is nuts. not only herself kitwise but also the items she benefits from like umbral glaive and runes such as glacial augment/approach velocity. She has peel with her super long range aoe root ability + glacial and gap closers with approach velocity + aoe camo/ms ability. Also this ability works very well for an escape and her passive gives her free stats that other champs need to shell out thousands for, one of which being increased range which can only be obtained with RFC while energized so there's really no determinable price on how busted having + permanent range is for doing nothing but rclick some souls from a safe range... has a long range damage ability that also just so happens to collect souls from a safe spot... oh yeah it also heals allies and damages objectives/wards/enemies while also healing herself and allies... lol global ult that can change the course of any fight or secure kills in the aftermath of one. also provides vision so even if you cant ult that drake or baron you can hurt everyone doing them and your team hops in to clean things up umbral glaive for safely oneshotting every ward on a whim and 2 shotting (aa+q) control wards while zooming around in movespeed camo her aa isn't that slow when you can aaQaa reset to instaburst someone into a peel that often times ends up with them dead as fuck while you're healed up from whatever dmg you took at the start of the trade _she's just 1 champion_ so there's gonna be someone with her to make sure that she doesn't get ccd or her enemies are locked down-- or both (Morgana, Naut, Leona, etc). Is she killable? Yes. Does that make her balanced and fair? No.
TheMusicMan (EUNE)
: As a top laner this meta is frustrating.
disagree. hard disagree. it's not a top lane issue it's a snowball issue that happens in any lane. Whichever top laner is successful will have greater impact on the game. You guys weren't hit with exp nerfs and forced to deal with all the increased urgency botlane because of drakes and minion movespeed. I'd happily swap rift with dragon on the map so you guys can get what you wish for. It's not a good thing, I don't know why this is what you're all rallying for. It's literally the most stressful thing. Lose your exp, keep up with the faster minions, and try to gain control over river for drake prio against overleveled mid + jg + your top counterpart. good luck. You can have it. I'll be playing aram until your wish comes true
: > [{quoted}](name=Humb1e Rumb1e,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eNx1aGTK,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2020-02-06T16:07:53.276+0000) > > It's kinda true tho, toplaners are the biggest crybabies in the game. is it too much of ask to be actualy have an impact in the game ? or not just rng ur teammates ? fun fact is that toplane has been least impactful role since season 4 While jungl was not the best role in game for 3 month and it already got buffed, speaking of crying
> [{quoted}](name=Hi Its Scirocco,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eNx1aGTK,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2020-02-06T16:15:40.575+0000) > > is it too much of ask to be actualy have an impact in the game ? or not just rng ur teammates ? > fun fact is that toplane has been least impactful role since season 4 While jungl was not the best role in game for 3 month and it already got buffed, speaking of crying Every time I see toplaners talk about their ideal changes, they talk about top lane going back to being a melee-only island. Meanwhile jg/botlane were both nerfed to always be behind in levels while also increasing minion movespeed, dragon importance, and mid exp. I don't get it. Top can tp botlane and get free doublekills all day if they wanted to. Mid can roam bot or into jg with little fear of the enemy jg who is 3 levels down. It's not like weird offmeta picks are a top lane exclusive. But boy are you guys acting like it is to push for buffs on some of the most busted 1v9ers in the game
Tentaku (EUNE)
: Here's an idea: instead of nerfing Soraka Top give people reason to NOT play Soraka Top
all this talk about riot wanting diversity and creativity and then when people find it, they eliminate it lol. I understand with funneling taric/yi because they are literally unstoppable when ulting together & abusing exp across the map but Soraka top can be played against. You can win against Soraka top if you get GW early and stop pushing like there's no jungle role in the game. When your wave is pushed, go clear some jungle or roam... get scuttle? Do anything else aside from try to tower dive her? Or idk have some patience and not try to push a wave that is already under her turret? It might not be fun to play against Soraka top but neither is Yasuo in any lane or someone like Leona botlane etc. I've played a lot of games where I hated my laning phase. Some champions like Yasuo make you stand away from minions and can even tower dive you with no consequence. People who can't adapt are a huge reason why we are in this tiny champ pool meta with huge damage on everything.
: Riot, we want Caitlyn back!
You're gonna have to accept the changes. Riot is pushing to close the skill expression gaps on many champions lately. Cait was one of those champs that was god tier in masterful hands -- very mechanically expressive with traps, passive, and her dash ontop of her high range. She was able to still go through with headshots while in stasis as well which was definitely a bug.. and was definitely abused while it lasted lol. Also noticed she would chain attacks and headshots and simply delete players in under 2 seconds .. I don't know how many people you will find rallying for Cait to be brought back up in any way after she dominated with stormrazor for a while. She has her traps and she still seems good to me. She might not be broken OP anymore but she's still great. Akali is kindof in the same boat here too regarding dumbing down of mechanics.
Rioter Comments
: EA does it with monetization. And it is blatantly obvious in statistics. Riot makes no money off making people lose. You cant P2W LoL, and you dont get purchasable cosmetics based on winning/rank.
> [{quoted}](name=MagicFlyingLlama,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QX8wRpsA,comment-id=0000000000030001,timestamp=2020-02-01T00:38:58.158+0000) > > EA does it with monetization. And it is blatantly obvious in statistics. > > Riot makes no money off making people lose. You cant P2W LoL, and you dont get purchasable cosmetics based on winning/rank. Yeah that's where people speculate and form conspiracies about RIOT being the root of botted accounts. People lose and get nowhere on the ladder, they pick up a new account to feel that sensation of doing really well again, and whoever makes and sells those accounts gets money. I can't confirm anything , there is no proof. I was only saying that if other large corporations and their shareholders push for scummy business practices it's not far-fetched to assume that Riot, in some way, is doing the same.
Kai Guy (NA)
: Sources to support your claims mate?
> [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QX8wRpsA,comment-id=0000000000030000,timestamp=2020-01-31T18:26:00.785+0000) > > Sources to support your claims mate? For Riot? They haven't admitted anything . For EA? Search it up yourself. The people who created these methods called it "Let's go whaling" sarcastically, which kindof goes to show how little the individual is valued, even when they spend.
: This is utter bullshit. Mathematically impossible as well, since it would need to do the same for every player. The much simpler explanation is MMR and confirmation bias. There is absolutely no reason to make a giant conspiracy that benefits nobody when the truth is that most players make zero effort to improve and naturally land at a 50% winrate with slightly oscillating MMR. There is zero evidence of rigging that passes even the most basic statistical analysis.
> [{quoted}](name=MagicFlyingLlama,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QX8wRpsA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2020-01-30T21:59:20.662+0000) > > This is utter bullshit. > > Mathematically impossible as well, since it would need to do the same for every player. > > The much simpler explanation is MMR and confirmation bias. There is absolutely no reason to make a giant conspiracy that benefits nobody when the truth is that most players make zero effort to improve and naturally land at a 50% winrate with slightly oscillating MMR. > > There is zero evidence of rigging that passes even the most basic statistical analysis. It's very very veeeery naïve of you to think that companies don't do this. EA did it with targeting persons who suffer to control their compulsive tendencies down to a _literal science_. These kind of studies brought about changes to the way games are marketed and funded, directly resulting in what we have today where every game is pretty much constantly paying for a service, cosmetics, features, content, and often times even win. Hearthstone is a good example of how paying can be the difference between winning or losing. Activision patented an algorithm that they created which paired players without cosmetics and cash shop flairs/items with those that do, and over time it would offer the player sales for these items individually. A lot of mobile games do this too, and even League has its own "My Shop" feature that is different for each player based on the role or champs that they play often. If you really think Riot isn't artificially roadblocking players in some way, shape, or form to keep them chasing that carrot then really it's just a matter of you believing that these corporations actually care about their playerbase and their shareholders are more interested in everyone having fun than they themselves making loads and loads of money....
: Lets talk about Tyler1
boards mods here say that what happens on twitch cant be moderated by riot because it is a different platform to that i say... wtf lol what someone says in game on their stream is still something said in their game, which isn't a different platform. makes no sense, and riot expects the 30k+ players watching him to take their rules seriously. at this very moment he is talking about how his teammates must have been born mentally challenged + r%%%%%ed while calling them insects/useless/dogshit in game alongside spam pings and ff vote any chance he gets. when he is winning a match it's totally different though and he seems to be on top of the world levels of happy. i think a lot of people can resonate with feeling like things are completely out of your control a lot of the time in league now but still.... i can only imagine how many people report his various accounts and nothing comes of it. Doesn't he also have 2 accounts that are partnered with all champs unlocked & stuff? I could be wrong there but he mentioned that this jg account was one of them the other day I think. AAANyways I think T1 is very entertaining and sometimes even very enlightening for someone like me who hasnt reached Plat+ levels of play BUT I enjoy watching him the most when he isn't raging and spitting bile at his teammates when he is literally smurfing..
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ae8RUecQ,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2020-01-27T20:00:02.939+0000) > Shut up Rujitra. You're part of the problem and I can say that now. i think i love you
NecrophiIe (EUNE)
: Mobility isn't problem by itself, its so rewarding for engaging with someone, with that same spell you deal 1000 damage
> [{quoted}](name=NecrophiIe,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VQ9lbHGK,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2020-01-20T13:17:52.556+0000) > > Mobility isn't problem by itself, its so rewarding for engaging with someone, with that same spell you deal 1000 damage or hard CC (cough pyke) so stupid. A dash should just be a dash. Why the f does it also need to deal damage or CC you? Pyke gets to be mobile (engage/picks/escapes), have insane peel in the form of a spammable CC hook that prioritizes champions, damage, a RANGED execute that can take out a whole team, invis/stealth/camo, super movement speed, literal gold generation on his R, sustain out the ass then there's qiyana, ekko, lee sin, senna.... i don't get it. items like umbral glaive that are so overpowered it's not even funny I mean I heard that some champ designers are retiring from their positions (maple left and went to alaska or something, CT moved departments and wont be making champs for LoL) but RIOT is proudly stating they will be cranking out new champs with complexities comparable to Senna>Aphelios>Sett like it's a good thing meanwhile 2/3 or more of their entire roster is scrambling to keep up with these new champs and changes
: Day 3, and I am not sure I want to play
yea idunno. they (riot and community) tell you to mute and then report that person. Usually on posts like these the person who fired back in the same manner even when heavily provoked or annoyed by a griefer gets downvoted and laughed at, then told to just mute next time. It doesn't make sense really how everyone can mute each other yet chat is the most heavily moderated thing on reporting when you can literally self moderate and this game isn't rated for kids. It's a T game yet you get banned if you say someone is useless in the match when they are literally trolling, throwing, or afk.. lol. Isn't there also a chat filter that can be toggled? hmm why does anyone need to be perma'd or whatever for chat use when there's a single click to mute the issue? I mean I can see it being enforced more strictly for things like extreme racial/hate terms. A lot of the things people get punished for in league is like elementary school roasting material when kids thought they were so edgy just for saying someone is a bitch, a loser, stupid, or something similar. You know, stuff that is often times said in PG13+ movies/shows... On the flip side, arguments and bs flame wars are a waste of time anyways so I could care less either way. When someone is flaming me I either ignore them, mute them, or compliment them somehow with a :) at the end & then keep on playing the match.
: Denying S Ratings Via Surrender - Its a Thing
I looked through your match history and I think it's honestly your vision score. You are not buying enough control wards and I'm guessing the possible 1 or MAYBE 2 that you do buy are going on your side of the map somewhere safe. Purchase control wards more and place them strategically-- try not to plop them down wherever if you think they will be cleared soon as that means you're just feeding 30g to the enemy team & alerting them to the possibility of more wards nearby. Another thing I notice is you are never really denying vision. If you play support try taking the red trinket to deny vision while you go about placing your own (again, if they see you're clearing vision it's expected that you will be replacing it all with your own so try not to dump wards all in one place). Anyway, yeah... scores aren't denied like you're thinking. It scales with the game length so actually it's harder to get S later on because at that point anyone can one combo you if they catch you out. Also if you're dead constantly because of poor vision then that's less uptime to deal damage, cs, assist with objectives...
Mimr (EUW)
: Aphelios' problem is that he has massively overtuned numbers because Riot overestimated his difficulty level, not that he has an overloaded kit. He is completely immobile and only has situational CC. I actually feel he is rather well designed at his baseline and like playing as him, very smooth and satisfying gameplay with room for skill expression without being too hard to pick up. And has very clear weaknesses with being completely immobile (ok ok Severum Q has a 20% movespeed increase) and his only CC being a short root on his gravity cannon which is not always available. But again, his numbers are just bonkers at the moment, especially the Infernum ult needs a much more severe nerf (30-40% AD scaling on the explosion is enough, that still yields a maximum of 150-200% AD damage from the explosion alone besides the other damage it already does). My biggest gripe with him is his lack of clarity, as in that you actually have to look closely at his model to see which guns he has equipped. His mainhand is shown through the color of his ammo bar but I think you can only see the offhand by looking at his model which leads to confusion on how to tackle him. Also that he is difficult to understand initially. When only reading through his abilities I was like "WTF is this shit I don't understand the first thing about it.". Which makes it hard to play against him. Only thing I can recommend for that is that you play a couple of games against AI with him so you can actually see for yourself what all his guns do and how his main- and offhand work together.
> [{quoted}](name=Mimr,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KEJArNAF,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2020-01-14T11:44:14.226+0000) > > Aphelios' problem is that he has massively overtuned numbers because Riot overestimated his difficulty level, not that he has an overloaded kit. He is completely immobile and only has situational CC. Aphelios has an overloaded kit. Idk why anyone is saying he doesn't. He literally does everything. Self healing, overshielding, range, melee, CC, globals, AOE, gives himself +movement speed, has a turret that is essentally a clone of him without any damage falloff, because of his turret and varying ranges he has good zone control. He's got a ton of things in his kit, thus making his kit overloaded. Idk what's so hard to understand about that. It's not an insult to say his kit is overloaded... it's just a fact of what his kit is. And yes his numbers are also too high, so even if it was just one or the other it would be a problem. The bigger problem is that he is both overloaded AND overstatted.
proliarides (EUNE)
: I want to thank riot
i got one of these two days ago as well. man it felt like finally some fucking justice was served. my teammates were a 4-man premade and they ganged up on me for not giving up the support role and playing Soraka. they said i'd be "dealt with" after threatening to mass report me... lol They harassed me all game, even intentionally backing off during team fights to let the enemies kill me, then emoted and danced all over where I died. Somehow we won that game despite them saying they would troll it away. I couldn't tell if they were trolling or just bad whenever they would flash into enemy CC. All around really interesting to see, though i don't think my retinas will ever fully recover the IFR notice immediately after the report was sent sure did feel great.
: wtf is this game?!!?!!?!?
I've had this happen botlane too. We are there first and have last-hit cleared more than half of the initial wave but the enemy duo still hits level 2 first despite missing the first melee minions in the wave. Considering all they did was leash just like we did, and neither of them has the red/blue buff.... makes no sense you're not going crazy though. I've experienced this multiple times
: > [{quoted}](name=Pombagira,realm=NA,application-id=GgNYATV4,discussion-id=jArEgfRh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2020-01-15T15:21:02.811+0000) > > People don't hate you! Why say that? Because whenever I try to say what I think or want it's always met with downvotes and angry replies
> [{quoted}](name=WyvernEgg,realm=NA,application-id=GgNYATV4,discussion-id=jArEgfRh,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2020-01-15T15:47:56.322+0000) > > Because whenever I try to say what I think or want it's always met with downvotes and angry replies a lot of people who come to the boards only want to voice their opinions as the only correct option. they are also usually very desperate for their opinions to become fact (getting their ideas implemented asap, amassing lots of upvotes for visibility, etc). irrational people who insult and reply sarcastically like you're 5 tend to be the norm in game boards. I guess those people don't get much social contact offline or something lol. Funnily enough they really don't take well to being treated like they treat others... such as bringing up someone's rank constantly, then you remind them that they are only Silver 2................. yikes
: AP Umbral Glaive equivalent?
beats me. vision is the counter to assassins yet here they are..... with the best vision control in the game. {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
: LP Loss Protection Against Trolls, Inters, and AFK's would Be Abused?
People bring up a lot of good points about full LP loss prevention being abused. I can definitely see it happening. If I could change things it would be made to **reward good play** more than safeguard players against teammates' bad play as you suggested. If your teammate is trolling or minimally contributing towards your win then **they** gain less LP. If your teammate is pushing objectives, warding, getting good individual scorings (just like how mastery score is determined) then **they** gain more LP. This would not be determined just by KDA but also objective control, vision, income, etc. Anything that Riot considers when giving mastery scorings really, which are all tailored to specific roles and champions already so it seems to be efficient enough at first glance for this purpose. Same goes for a loss. If you didn't give up, afk, or troll (aka ghost/cleanse nunu adc w/0 cs at end of game) **you** lose less LP. If you left the game, had poor contribution, poor warding, etc, **you** lose more LP. Your teammates that remained composed and kept on as best they could would see varying LP losses depending on their own performance. For three reasons I think this is beneficial for literally everyone: 1. Players performing really well climb faster so they can get to a rank that suits their contributions and performance in games. 2. Players being hard-carried climb slower and fall to where they are among their own skill level faster. 3. Players who do not try at all are massively 'punishing' themselves. Trolls, inters, griefers, etc.... they all hurt themselves the most. I think it's time that Riot stopped punishing or rewarding everyone the same amount just because we're on the same team. In Solo/Duo Queue it doesn't make sense for things to work this way to begin with.
: Ok, what would you suggest then? The OP's idea of just removing the restriction is just begging for Ardent Meta to happen.
> [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PuA33AMj,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2020-01-12T22:45:48.847+0000) > > Ok, what would you suggest then? The OP's idea of just removing the restriction is just begging for Ardent Meta to happen. I don't know. It's hard to come up with a solution that other lanes won't abuse. Players still abuse the current support items even after they have been adjusted beyond all means just to prevent that from happening. It's an item that generates gold from poking in lane and merely existing :\ My initial thought was to make a support oriented rune that has to do with gold generation . I think there used to be one before Runes Reforged if I remember correctly... I was super noob back then lol Supports can't have anything nice because there's no means for us to earn gold in the game normally like everyone else. Jg gets to gank and kill camps. adc, mid, top all get to cs farm. But support.... nada. Maybe Riot should lock the support items to something only a support can take similarly to the jungle items. If they did that somehow then there wouldn't have to be all of this balance struggle. Also if they don't like funnel strats then maybe the amount of smite per team should be limited to 1. Sometimes the answer seems simple but there's a possible reason why it isn't... like giving more gold for ward clearing which would benefit the ad supports way more than everyone else just because blackout exists on umbral glaive
: I mean, if they dont want to remove the penality, then it should be fair to buff the G per 5...Idk why they haven't bothered thinking about that. Even better, give it a passive where if you kill or place wards, you get 10 or 15 gold. Would incentivize more vision play and solve the gold problem without going a route that would invite the Ardent Meta. I'd also do a change to the support items and make them gain a charge of a ward per 3 minutes if its out. Most of this stuff would be on the full upgrade obviously.
> [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PuA33AMj,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2020-01-12T18:57:05.547+0000) > > I mean, if they dont want to remove the penality, then it should be fair to buff the G per 5...Idk why they haven't bothered thinking about that. Even better, give it a passive where if you kill or place wards, you get 10 or 15 gold. Would incentivize more vision play and solve the gold problem without going a route that would invite the Ardent Meta. I'd also do a change to the support items and make them gain a charge of a ward per 3 minutes if its out. Most of this stuff would be on the full upgrade obviously. killing wards giving more gold would be pretty lopsided in favor of the ad supports that can build {{item:3179}} . so that's a no-go for me. they get to one shot wards and two shot control wards permanently while also passively revealing wards for like 8s every 40ish seconds... meanwhile every other support type has to use only sweeper. takes forever to take down just one ward. can maybe kill 2 if they are right by each other before your sweeper is down.
: If you can't be bothered to learn a champ and know when or when not to engage on them, you deserve to lose. This is a rule that applies to ***LITERALLY EVERY CHAMPION IN THE ENTIRE GAME*** Aphelios is no different. These geniuses decided, with low damage output, to engage while he had an AOE weapon and sustain weapon. They got slaughtered. Zero about this should be surprising. If it's still unclear: - If you try to kill a Tryn as an immobile ADC with his ult up, he fucking destroys you. - If you try to 1v1 Mordekaiser as an immobile or melee target with less items, he fucking destroys you. - If you isolate yourself in the jungle with a fed Kha'zix around, he fucking destroys you. - If you go into a teamfight with a Yi nearby while your team is low HP, he fucking destroys you. - If you walk into Syndra's ult range as a squishy champion while she has orbs out, she fucking destroys you. - If you ignore that Annie has stun ready and Tibbers ready and walk into her range, she fucking destroys you. This list can go on for at *least* like half the roster. Aphelios is *no different*. It's hilarious watching people who are either too lazy, too arrogant, or too stupid to care about learning how a fucking champion works complain about how "OP" they are because they can't muster the will to activate 2 brain cells and learn a new champion. Aphelios is literally the same as every other champion when it comes to fighting him. The *only difference* is that he's strong or weak at different things depending on the weapons he has *which are clearly displayed at all times for everyone to see*. I've lost *one* game against Aphelios and he didn't even carry. Because I actually decided to learn how the champion works. If you sit there like a dumbass and go "WAAAHHH I CAN'T 1V1 HIM" when you're deciding to pick a fight against him while he has Severum and Crescendum active and you run right into melee range you *deserve* to lose you imbecile. If you try to to dive him with 5 people while he's sitting on an Infernum and Runaan's with his ult up you **deserve** to lose. If you just sit there and let him harass you while he's sitting on Calibrum and Gravitum instead of engaging until he gets you low enough to combo snipe you, you ***DESERVE TO LOSE***. Actually bother to learn the champ. I've yet to see a single person bitching about Aphelios that actually knows his kit well enough that they stop pretending it's complicated. It's not complicated unless you repeated the third grade 9 times. Learn the weapons, use *basic reasoning* to know when a fight will go in your favor, and capitalize on it. Here, in case that's still too much to ask, here's a rundown of what weapons are for what: - **Crescendum + Severum/Calibrum**: 1v1s. Like, against anything but Jax or Shen. The Crescendum + Severum combo is scarier in general for outright stat-check fights but the Calibrum option does more damage than people think. - **Infernum + Calibrum/Gravitum**: Teamfights. Don't cluster up, wait for him to burn his ult, *then* dive him. His ult is literally the whole reason he keeps this combo avaiable. - **Calibrum + Gravitum**: Picking people off/setting up engages - **Infernum + Severum**: Sustain, but only when multiple targets are around and only if he has Death's Dance and/or Runaan's - **Severum + Gravitum**: Kiting/escaping/chasing. - **Severum + Calibrum**: Pretty shit. One of the ideal times to dive him in any capacity. His "safest" set as long as he keeps distance but he absolutely does not want you to fight him with these active unless he's way more fed than you. Alternatively, don't bother to learn his kit. Then you just look like an idiot whining about a champ you don't understand and blaming them for being "OP" when, really, you're just so bad that anything more complicated than Garen is this impossible-to-learn-how-to-play-against champion. The belief that he's "overloaded" is hilarious. He literally has *LESS OPTIONS* than *ANY* other champion in *ANY* given fight. At *most*, he has 4 abilities, and that requires you weapon cycling twice in the same fight, which by the way has a specific delay animation where he can't do anything and operates in a wonky fashion where sometimes it switches him to his current secondary and sometimes it pushes him to the next weapon immediately, which means anytime he swaps his DPS tanks and he's usually not 100% doing something right. Over the course of the game, yes, he has more things he can do. But on a *per fight basis*, he isn't "Like Lee Sin or Nidalee". He's literally the *opposite*. He's *"underloaded"* compared to the entire roster of champions in any given fight, factually, due to him only having only 2 abilities and flavored autos, and that's it. They're slightly different depending on his secondary weapons but the ***FACT*** is that he has less tools to work with in any single fight than any other champion *in the entire game*. That is not opinion, that is not debatable. It is outright provably true. All of his versatility comes from setting up *before* the fight. Once a fight starts, he's working with less tools than anyone else. Which means if you *actually bother to learn what he's good at in any particular scenario*, you then know, for that fight, what to avoid and what to capitalize on. If you *exploit* it, like you need to do for *any champion in the entire game*, he's a complete non-threat, because in *almost all scenarios* the only real variables are the *2* abilities he has, versus your 4-6 because you're playing *any other champion in the entire game*. The rest is literally just him doing a regularly incremental amount of damage in the form of autoattacks. *Like any other ADC*. But nah. That requires thinking and this community is apparently garbage at that. For autoattack reference: - If he has Infernum, pretend they're Jinx Rockets. - If he has Crescendum, pretend he's a Melee Carry - If he has Severum, literally he just has more lifesteal than normal. - If he has Gravitum, pretend he has Frozen Mallet - If he has Calibrum, pretend he's shittier Caitlyn. Like, how in the name of any god is this hard for some of you?
> [{quoted}](name=Shinjusuke,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=byOFqfYf,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000000000020000,timestamp=2020-01-11T03:57:55.696+0000) > > If you can't be bothered to learn a champ and know when or when not to engage on them, you deserve to lose. > > This is a rule that applies to ***LITERALLY EVERY CHAMPION IN THE ENTIRE GAME*** > > Aphelios is no different. These geniuses decided, with low damage output, to engage while he had an AOE weapon and sustain weapon. They got slaughtered. Zero about this should be surprising. > > If it's still unclear: > > - If you try to kill a Tryn as an immobile ADC with his ult up, he fucking destroys you. > - If you try to 1v1 Mordekaiser as an immobile or melee target with less items, he fucking destroys you. > - If you isolate yourself in the jungle with a fed Kha'zix around, he fucking destroys you. > - If you go into a teamfight with a Yi nearby while your team is low HP, he fucking destroys you. > - If you walk into Syndra's ult range as a squishy champion while she has orbs out, she fucking destroys you. > - If you ignore that Annie has stun ready and Tibbers ready and walk into her range, she fucking destroys you. > > This list can go on for at *least* like half the roster. > Aphelios is *no different*. > > It's hilarious watching people who are either too lazy, too arrogant, or too stupid to care about learning how a fucking champion works complain about how "OP" they are because they can't muster the will to activate 2 brain cells and learn a new champion. Aphelios is literally the same as every other champion when it comes to fighting him. The *only difference* is that he's strong or weak at different things depending on the weapons he has *which are clearly displayed at all times for everyone to see*. > > I've lost *one* game against Aphelios and he didn't even carry. Because I actually decided to learn how the champion works. > > If you sit there like a dumbass and go "WAAAHHH I CAN'T 1V1 HIM" when you're deciding to pick a fight against him while he has Severum and Crescendum active and you run right into melee range you *deserve* to lose you imbecile. > > If you try to to dive him with 5 people while he's sitting on an Infernum and Runaan's with his ult up you **deserve** to lose. > > If you just sit there and let him harass you while he's sitting on Calibrum and Gravitum instead of engaging until he gets you low enough to combo snipe you, you ***DESERVE TO LOSE***. > > Actually bother to learn the champ. I've yet to see a single person bitching about Aphelios that actually knows his kit well enough that they stop pretending it's complicated. > > It's not complicated unless you repeated the third grade 9 times. Learn the weapons, use *basic reasoning* to know when a fight will go in your favor, and capitalize on it. > Here, in case that's still too much to ask, here's a rundown of what weapons are for what: > > - **Crescendum + Severum/Calibrum**: 1v1s. Like, against anything but Jax or Shen. The Crescendum + Severum combo is scarier in general for outright stat-check fights but the Calibrum option does more damage than people think. > - **Infernum + Calibrum/Gravitum**: Teamfights. Don't cluster up, wait for him to burn his ult, *then* dive him. His ult is literally the whole reason he keeps this combo avaiable. > - **Calibrum + Gravitum**: Picking people off/setting up engages > - **Infernum + Severum**: Sustain, but only when multiple targets are around and only if he has Death's Dance and/or Runaan's > - **Severum + Gravitum**: Kiting/escaping/chasing. > - **Severum + Calibrum**: Pretty shit. One of the ideal times to dive him in any capacity. His "safest" set as long as he keeps distance but he absolutely does not want you to fight him with these active unless he's way more fed than you. > > Alternatively, don't bother to learn his kit. Then you just look like an idiot whining about a champ you don't understand and blaming them for being "OP" when, really, you're just so bad that anything more complicated than Garen is this impossible-to-learn-how-to-play-against champion. > > The belief that he's "overloaded" is hilarious. > He literally has *LESS OPTIONS* than *ANY* other champion in *ANY* given fight. > At *most*, he has 4 abilities, and that requires you weapon cycling twice in the same fight, which by the way has a specific delay animation where he can't do anything and operates in a wonky fashion where sometimes it switches him to his current secondary and sometimes it pushes him to the next weapon immediately, which means anytime he swaps his DPS tanks and he's usually not 100% doing something right. > > Over the course of the game, yes, he has more things he can do. But on a *per fight basis*, he isn't "Like Lee Sin or Nidalee". He's literally the *opposite*. He's *"underloaded"* compared to the entire roster of champions in any given fight, factually, due to him only having only 2 abilities and flavored autos, and that's it. They're slightly different depending on his secondary weapons but the ***FACT*** is that he has less tools to work with in any single fight than any other champion *in the entire game*. That is not opinion, that is not debatable. It is outright provably true. > > All of his versatility comes from setting up *before* the fight. Once a fight starts, he's working with less tools than anyone else. Which means if you *actually bother to learn what he's good at in any particular scenario*, you then know, for that fight, what to avoid and what to capitalize on. If you *exploit* it, like you need to do for *any champion in the entire game*, he's a complete non-threat, because in *almost all scenarios* the only real variables are the *2* abilities he has, versus your 4-6 because you're playing *any other champion in the entire game*. The rest is literally just him doing a regularly incremental amount of damage in the form of autoattacks. *Like any other ADC*. > > But nah. That requires thinking and this community is apparently garbage at that. > > For autoattack reference: > > - If he has Infernum, pretend they're Jinx Rockets. > - If he has Crescendum, pretend he's a Melee Carry > - If he has Severum, literally he just has more lifesteal than normal. > - If he has Gravitum, pretend he has Frozen Mallet > - If he has Calibrum, pretend he's shittier Caitlyn. > > Like, how in the name of any god is this hard for some of you? "how is this hard for some of you???" > had to type a whole essay + bullet points just for his ability combinations and some explanations > is also unranked so no idea how well he is played in the right hands (basically any hands after a few games, he is that easy to master) i guess aphelios is just too hard for challenger players. korean challenger players are banning him in 100% of games, guaranteed must-ban on both sides every single game. despite him breaking a record for the most-banned champion of all time, I mean he just must be too difficult for them to understand too I guess. Silly challenger players don't know how to play against aphelios, how embarrassing /s
: > [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3ENrxGqj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2020-01-11T16:46:08.914+0000) > > You know, this is actually a great analogy. > > You going into a michelin starred restaurant and telling them the food is shit simply because you don't like filet mignon or caviar or whatever it is **does not mean that it is bad**. > > Likewise, you saying the client is shit when it works for millions of players a day and only a small percent of a small percent have problems with it doesn't mean it's shit. Nothing works perfectly for everyone - not even restaurants. If you go somewhere expecting perfection for you yourself, instead of *the best possible for the most possible* then that's on you - not the restaurant. Wrong, if almost every customer is saying it, the customer is right, it's food, it's about giving customers what they want. You can say you're the best restaurant, pop up in magazines etc. but if no one wants your food because it doesn't taste good, you're still going under.
> [{quoted}](name=Beerstein,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3ENrxGqj,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2020-01-11T16:53:23.796+0000) > > Wrong, if almost every customer is saying it, the customer is right, it's food, it's about giving customers what they want. You can say you're the best restaurant, pop up in magazines etc. but if no one wants your food because it doesn't taste good, you're still going under. i wish i could see rujitra's lifetime downvote count the dude is almost unbearable... only upside is watching the red number get bigger on his posts lol. the client has been shit for a long while now and not for just a minority of players. imagine how many players aren't on the boards or reddit to talk about their client issues. I personally can't play 3 games without it locking up, preventing champ/rune selection.
: > [{quoted}](name=SUPER BIG NUTZ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zBq79XtZ,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2020-01-11T15:22:43.971+0000) > > Well punishing people for doing bad isnt the way. Inting is already a reportable offense so. If its intentional is different. > > The rank system is what needs to change. Like completely. Instead of losing/gaining LP for wins and losses, it should be based on how well you did that match. You went 9/0/15 and stole 3 drakes... a baron and took 3 towers down and ended with 300 cs. You shouldnt be punished the same way as the guy who went 0/7/1 with 20 cs that ended up afking for the last 10 mins. Its a fucking joke. We can debate what a better system could be, but I think anything is better than the current one. it takes months for real inters to get banned because they "hide" it so well. They don't type in chat and soft int. Not detectable so they need like 500 reports for them to be reviewed by a real person. The system needs a huge upgrade.
> [{quoted}](name=UltimateShield13,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zBq79XtZ,comment-id=000000020003,timestamp=2020-01-11T21:21:40.904+0000) > > it takes months for real inters to get banned because they "hide" it so well. They don't type in chat and soft int. Not detectable so they need like 500 reports for them to be reviewed by a real person. The system needs a huge upgrade. Yeah I don't get this guy's logic either. Reports for these players sit around for so long. Most of them probably never get reviewed. Think about how many Riot must get every day... or even every hour. Punishing people for doing bad isnt the way..... wtf lol okay so what we just give them some cookies? a pat on the back? ignore them? if someone is playing badly, they should lose more LP than those who are on the right track. It's pretty clear that you aren't where you're supposed to be if your team is carrying you every game.
: > [{quoted}](name=SUPER BIG NUTZ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zBq79XtZ,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2020-01-11T15:22:43.971+0000) > > Well punishing people for doing bad isnt the way. Inting is already a reportable offense so. If its intentional is different. > > The rank system is what needs to change. Like completely. Instead of losing/gaining LP for wins and losses, it should be based on how well you did that match. You went 9/0/15 and stole 3 drakes... a baron and took 3 towers down and ended with 300 cs. You shouldnt be punished the same way as the guy who went 0/7/1 with 20 cs that ended up afking for the last 10 mins. Its a fucking joke. We can debate what a better system could be, but I think anything is better than the current one. If that happens people will prioritize personal stats. People will chase those stats, and not do what's actually required to win that game. _Supposedly_ the grading system doesn't use stats like simple farming that people could chase -but we don't know how it works. Also there is _no_ such thing as "punishment".
> [{quoted}](name=Dreamspitter,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zBq79XtZ,comment-id=000000020001,timestamp=2020-01-11T16:05:14.064+0000) > > If that happens people will prioritize personal stats. > > People will chase those stats, and not do what's actually required to win that game. > > _Supposedly_ the grading system doesn't use stats like simple farming that people could chase -but we don't know how it works. > > Also there is _no_ such thing as "punishment". People will prioritize grading well , which isn't just KDA. Vision, objective contribution, cs, etc. I don't see a single negative to rewarding good play. You talk about it being 'abused' but I don't understand how you can'abuse' playing well to earn more? Not just KDA, since you've probably seen the posts about players posting their high KDA while not achieving an S rank. I'm talking like they need to do more than just chase kills or slam their head against a turret until they die to it. Getting a good mastery score takes a lot more than whatever you're suggesting. We do know how it works to a degree. You can see the many graphs that track specific things at the end of games. As a support main I know that my vision score is just as important as getting assists, kills, gold, or whatever else. So for someone to 'chase their personal stats'... in this instance it's not a bad thing at all. Riot grades the various roles differently from one another in a way that works well with this concept. Chasing 'individual' stats would really be rewarding those who try to win the game. The players who don't give up after 3 deaths at 6 minutes, or when their call for a forfeit doesn't go through at exactly 15 minutes. The biggest issue I have with League lately is that everyone is so damn quick to just give up. They think that getting a ton of kills is winning when in reality SR is a lot more than chasing kills. You need to push objectives, ward well, help your teammates, and push for victory when you have a lead. When you have an afk/quitter/troll on your team it sucks. Some people really just want to play the game though so they don't ff and they continue on as a 4v5. They don't tilt and could care less about completely stomping from start to finish. Comebacks can still happen, I experience them rarely though because of the poor mentality that players carry... They give up and accept the loss even when nobody was afk or griefing, too. Elder is a great comeback mechanic and so is Baron. Another way to win when behind is to just stall out the game until your team has items too. Anyway, idunno. I really see nothing wrong with losing less LP when you played the game through and losing more when you quit/afk/troll. If your stats suck you probably should not be carried so easily into higher elo where all of that matters more anyway, don't you think?
ODiiiiiN (NA)
: Ranked is a Joke
i just wish riot gave more LP for those in a match (win or lose) that performed well AKA tried their hardest to carry). They have a system in place to give scorings based on things like vision, damage, KDA, objective damages... why not use this? Whoever does poorly in their individual scoring loses more LP, whoever scores well loses less LP. Or is that how it is now? I mean it makes sense to do it this way. so basically : player didn't afk/troll/grief : less lp lost | player didn't try, had bad scores: lose more lp. gaining more LP on a win is debatable ... i mean you already won the match lol. But gaining a little less for not really helping the team win sounds fair.
: What site *is* this? I've never seen it in my life.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vffR0qwr,comment-id=0012000100000000,timestamp=2020-01-11T12:54:22.385+0000) > > What site *is* this? I've never seen it in my life. fow.kr
: [Once again](https://u.gg/lol/champions/aphelios/build?region=kr&rank=challenger), him having 223% banrate in KR is factually untrue. Where the McFuck are people getting this 223% banrate from when looking at literally every site gives a two-digit number?
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vffR0qwr,comment-id=00120001,timestamp=2020-01-11T12:30:22.471+0000) > > [Once again](https://u.gg/lol/champions/aphelios/build?region=kr&rank=challenger), him having 223% banrate in KR is factually untrue. > > Where the McFuck are people getting this 223% banrate from when looking at literally every site gives a two-digit number? No, you're actually wrong. It is true and he did break a record for surpassing 200% banrate in **KR Challenger** over the span of a week. https://preview.redd.it/3hc3fgrs5f941.png?width=1283&format=png&auto=webp&s=d189cf842706f65c4382ef10f42bbe2586bc63a7 He's getting higher in banrate in NA and other regions as well. edit: there's really no point trying to explain statistics to you because you seem to be confused between pick/ban numbers and just banrate. his banrate is through the roof. his pick rate is probably not very high _because he's banned constantly_. hope that makes sense. also yes this champ should be deleted in his current state. He's too much. A MAJOR rework is in order: AKA delete this version and go back to the drawing board. They've done it before and can do it again. Or not, I mean.. he can stay banned forever for all I care. Riot wants to be stubborn about their full moon dude then fine by me :)
Rhai (EUNE)
: How are Remakes even possible if he's banned 100% of the time from both sides?
> [{quoted}](name=Rhai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vffR0qwr,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2020-01-11T03:50:32.383+0000) > > How are Remakes even possible if he's banned 100% of the time from both sides? Remakes are not counted as games, so they are factored in separately after full games with all players present, which made the 223% possible. But yes, he is banned 100% of the time on both sides as well as the remakes.
: Aphelios has about a 90% pick ban rate in master+
I made a post about this a few days ago that was completely ignored. Aphelios reached 223% ban rate in KR Challenger, breaking a record for highest ban champion of all time. He is banned 100% of times on both sides equaling 200%, then the remakes that aren't considered games are counted in afterwards bringing him up to 223%. The champ needs to be completely changed and toned down. Akali is 2nd at 174% and Qiyana is 3rd highest banrate.
Lapis (OCE)
: I don't see anything wrong with letting an assassin have some utility. Let them actually contribute for once. And it's not like she's broken because of it or anything, Qiyana's pretty weak, isn't she?
> [{quoted}](name=Lapis,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vAWGqWoU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-20T21:36:47.252+0000) > > I don't see anything wrong with letting an assassin have some utility. Let them actually contribute for once. And it's not like she's broken because of it or anything, Qiyana's pretty weak, isn't she? Actually no, she is the 3rd highest banrate champion in KR challenger elo. 138% banrate meaning 100% of games and sometimes banned on both sides in champ select... Akali is sitting at #2 with 174% and Aphelios literally broke a record for surpassing 200%-- he reached 223% banrate over the course of a week.
: spiderman ps4 wasn't complicated at all lmao
> [{quoted}](name=gabetheguy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=byOFqfYf,comment-id=0021,timestamp=2020-01-08T23:46:52.135+0000) > > spiderman ps4 wasn't complicated at all lmao aphelios reminds me more of a devil may cry character. basically riot saying yeah let's make a ranged ad character and give him pandora's box from dmc.
: For real. Much as I hate how hard it is to maintain vision lately it's annoying that the midlane assassin has more power over vision dominance (the support's job) than the supports do.
> [{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q6P7aLi0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2020-01-09T03:49:34.119+0000) > > For real. Much as I hate how hard it is to maintain vision lately it's annoying that the midlane assassin has more power over vision dominance (the support's job) than the supports do. senna, pyke, and any ad support also gets to do their vision control job much better and safer than everyone else. it's really unfair considering those kinds of champs carry the 1v1 potential while utility and tank supps don't.
: Make ward silhouettes appear as "default wards" when sweeping them out of vision
some wards are animated too. does not help at all to sweep a bush and see it wiggling around...
: Okay, I get how you can get over 100% ban rate, but how exactly do you get over 200%?
> [{quoted}](name=BremerdanGorst,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rYxBBxtw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2020-01-08T18:31:46.869+0000) > > Okay, I get how you can get over 100% ban rate, but how exactly do you get over 200%? 100% on both sides (200% total), then the remakes are also added in after that to equal 223% even though they are not counted as legitimate games (draw). He literally broke a record. lol
: > [{quoted}](name=Waka FIocka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WYgsYw2H,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2020-01-08T04:33:49.148+0000) > > Senna has an 80.35% ban rate in Korean Challenger... > But you know, we'll trust the words of a silver 2 player over the entirety of Korean Challenger elo. > > edit: she's the 5th highest in banrate. > > 1. Aphelios 223% > 2. Akali 174% > 3. Qiyana 138% > 4. Elise 88.55% > 5. Senna 80% > > https://preview.redd.it/3hc3fgrs5f941.png?width=1283&format=png&auto=webp&s=d189cf842706f65c4382ef10f42bbe2586bc63a7 Wow still no argument. Please give a real argument.
> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WYgsYw2H,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2020-01-08T12:49:17.436+0000) > > Wow still no argument. Please give a real argument. I did give a real argument. Professional level players are banning her in 80% of games.... What, do you think they ban her for fun or as a meme? She's too good right now. Her range makes trading against most supports and adcs a breeze. She stacks her passive very quickly by popping someone with a Q and then autoing them, but also gets several per minion wave, both jungle pits, and jungle camps. If she runs glacial augment and approach velocity you cannot escape her self-peel unless you're someone with huge ms abilities like voli, udyr or you have low cooldown dashes. She heals herself and allies. She shields herself (and allies globally). Her heals and shields can be full build Nami levels of huge with {{item:3504}} and {{item:3174}}. She CAN build these AP items and benefit from them-- her ult and heals scale off of AP too. She has access to the most influential vision control item in the game right now ({{item:3179}}). There is no blackout equivalent for other support types. So she gets to zoom around oneshotting every ward, two shotting every control ward from a safe range. Her E is a copy paste Sona E but on steroids, giving not only +ms but also camo to everyone inside while also applying aery if she runs it. It is easy enough to ban out Nautilus, Leona, and then pick Morgana (any order of these) as her own support to stop any cc on her. Why don't you give a real argument? All you've said is run someone 'like Leona'. That doesn't work out in higher elo where players know what they are doing and how to form proper compositions-- hence the 80% ban rate you don't consider a real argument.
: > [{quoted}](name=Waka FIocka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WeJOEdZQ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2020-01-08T07:45:08.428+0000) > > yep sorry but yuumi needed this change. she's had her fun zooming and zipping infinitely between allies, applying aery, heals, and movement speed. Now it's time for her to ween off the catnip and chill the frick out. Yuumi absolutely did need to be easier to catch out. BUT a five second lockdown for even minor incidental CC that just happens to clip her is too much. As per my reply to Infernape I think it should be a percentage of the CC's duration tacked on at the end of it as a _Grounded_ effect. This way Yuumi and Soraka both get more skill expression in the Yuumi vs Soraka matchup, some bullshit cases (the aforementioned tiny displacements) get removed, and Riot gets a new balance lever to adjust Yuumi's winrate with (the percentage scaling of the _Grounded_ effect). It's a win for everyone.
> [{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WeJOEdZQ,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2020-01-08T09:57:04.332+0000) > > Yuumi absolutely did need to be easier to catch out. > BUT a five second lockdown for even minor incidental CC that just happens to clip her is too much. > As per my reply to Infernape I think it should be a percentage of the CC's duration tacked on at the end of it as a _Grounded_ effect. This way Yuumi and Soraka both get more skill expression in the Yuumi vs Soraka matchup, some bullshit cases (the aforementioned tiny displacements) get removed, and Riot gets a new balance lever to adjust Yuumi's winrate with (the percentage scaling of the _Grounded_ effect). It's a win for everyone. What if the cooldown was shorter in duration for something like a draven shove, vayne knockback, or silence? Instead of 5s maybe a quicker 2.5s? It felt really bad to lane & teamfight against her the way she was before. You could catch a Yuumi for a time when players weren't very versed with her. Against a good Yuumi she was basically an item in a build that could hot potato around with no counterplay at all
: "Immobilizing effects on Yuumi places You and Me! on a 5-second cooldown."
yep sorry but yuumi needed this change. she's had her fun zooming and zipping infinitely between allies, applying aery, heals, and movement speed. Now it's time for her to ween off the catnip and chill the frick out.
: > [{quoted}](name=Waka FIocka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=byOFqfYf,comment-id=00060001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-08T04:06:43.666+0000) > > Yeah sure, he's fine. He must be fine even though he's reached 223% banrate in Korean Challenger. /s > > https://preview.redd.it/3hc3fgrs5f941.png?width=1283&format=png&auto=webp&s=d189cf842706f65c4382ef10f42bbe2586bc63a7 > > sure he's fun to play as. but against? there's a problem. He is unfair to lane and play against. You wanted statistics, here they are. I did initially state that his flamethrower is indeed broken, did i not? Naturally his banrate is high then. My main claim is that the rest of his kit is not insanely so or at least easily balanceable given it´s all just numbers and no gimmicks with tons of power that is not visualized by numbers like Akali shroud, Yasuo windwall or Irelia´s R when she still had the disarm on it.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=byOFqfYf,comment-id=000600010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-08T07:09:59.431+0000) > > I did initially state that his flamethrower is indeed broken, did i not? Naturally his banrate is high then. > > > My main claim is that the rest of his kit is not insanely so or at least easily balanceable given it´s all just numbers and no gimmicks with tons of power that is not visualized by numbers like Akali shroud, Yasuo windwall or Irelia´s R when she still had the disarm on it. those ban rates are not solely because of his infernum ult. if you can provide some statistics to prove that point then I'll believe it. the rest of his kit is not balanced, hence being the highest banrate champion in the highest elo since ever.
: Wow no real arguments wow. Just vague things wow. It's not like you pick idk a champion like leona and they completely destroy her since her peel is pretty bad. "Poke, healing, global ult, makes use of lethality, an aoe stealth a root" wow fun fact just listening parts of kits will make any champion op. Also lethality is actually a negative if she was ap she would be 100% better as a champion that is a fact. I like how basically everything you said but a few things and the same thing can be said about soraka and she actually does most of that stuff better. "Soraka is op The lane presence, the scaling, this champ is an abomination." "Poke, healing, global ult, makes use of ap, an aoe silence root" See not hard only had to change a few words. Senna and soraka are also pick for very different things just showing how bad your post is.
> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WYgsYw2H,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2020-01-08T02:57:09.723+0000) > > Wow no real arguments wow. Just vague things wow. > > It's not like you pick idk a champion like leona and they completely destroy her since her peel is pretty bad. > > "Poke, healing, global ult, makes use of lethality, an aoe stealth a root" wow fun fact just listening parts of kits will make any champion op. Also lethality is actually a negative if she was ap she would be 100% better as a champion that is a fact. > > I like how basically everything you said but a few things and the same thing can be said about soraka and she actually does most of that stuff better. > > "Soraka is op > > The lane presence, the scaling, this champ is an abomination." "Poke, healing, global ult, makes use of ap, an aoe silence root" > > See not hard only had to change a few words. Senna and soraka are also pick for very different things just showing how bad your post is. Senna has an 80.35% ban rate in Korean Challenger... But you know, we'll trust the words of a silver 2 player over the entirety of Korean Challenger elo. edit: she's the 5th highest in banrate. 1. Aphelios 223% 2. Akali 174% 3. Qiyana 138% 4. Elise 88.55% 5. Senna 80% https://preview.redd.it/3hc3fgrs5f941.png?width=1283&format=png&auto=webp&s=d189cf842706f65c4382ef10f42bbe2586bc63a7
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Waka FIocka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=byOFqfYf,comment-id=000600010000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-07T12:50:01.799+0000) > > he is an adc. there are many reasons why someone would have to go into his attack range (teamfights) lol. Talking about walking into his turrets here? Literally the same deal as heimer turret, either you are a tank who has built to survive this or you dont. >but you're right... go into his various aa ranges and you're dead. But wait ... his ult is a projectile with 1575 range. all of you are dead because of his globals and various ranges/ults being tripled by runaans. So what if his sustain surpasses a BT and his damage doesn't require damage items or even winning a lane or securing several kills. Yeah it's fair that he can be 0/6 and wipe a whole team with 1 aa Q R. Or just R. Nothing forces you to stand ontop eachother so his ult hits everyone. His sustain is literally an ability+passive off his that is on rotation, if he has this then he has nothing else, and if he does not have it he does not have any sustain at all. His damage does require items, % multipliers does not matter squat if the number they multiply off is too low. 20 Charkrams for a 365% AD boost? If he has no items and just 100 AD that´s only 365 per hit for a situation that arises like once in a blue moon, like say that the equivalent for Anivia would be that every single enemy is sitting ontop eachother in a bush with no vision outside and she hits everyone with a Q-R+W to keep them in there. That´s how ridiculously rare it would be if not more. Or for {{champion:161}} when every single opponent is sitting in that bush and he lands E-W-R and gets to channcel his entire R uninterrupted on them with all of them escaping at the same pace in the same direction. Go 0.6 and wipe a whole team? yeah if he actually eventually hits lategame&gets his items, has his flamethrower and lands an ultimate ontop of a enemy team sitting ontop eachother sure. Any carry does damage once they have their items though is the crux of the matter here, does not matter if they are 0.20,0, if they have somehow gotten their items then their attacks will hurt.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=byOFqfYf,comment-id=0006000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-07T13:37:55.284+0000) > > Talking about walking into his turrets here? Literally the same deal as heimer turret, either you are a tank who has built to survive this or you dont. > > Nothing forces you to stand ontop eachother so his ult hits everyone. > > His sustain is literally an ability+passive off his that is on rotation, if he has this then he has nothing else, and if he does not have it he does not have any sustain at all. > > His damage does require items, % multipliers does not matter squat if the number they multiply off is too low. > > 20 Charkrams for a 365% AD boost? If he has no items and just 100 AD that´s only 365 per hit for a situation that arises like once in a blue moon, like say that the equivalent for Anivia would be that every single enemy is sitting ontop eachother in a bush with no vision outside and she hits everyone with a Q-R+W to keep them in there. > > That´s how ridiculously rare it would be if not more. > > Or for {{champion:161}} when every single opponent is sitting in that bush and he lands E-W-R and gets to channcel his entire R uninterrupted on them with all of them escaping at the same pace in the same direction. > > > Go 0.6 and wipe a whole team? > > yeah if he actually eventually hits lategame&gets his items, has his flamethrower and lands an ultimate ontop of a enemy team sitting ontop eachother sure. > > Any carry does damage once they have their items though is the crux of the matter here, does not matter if they are 0.20,0, if they have somehow gotten their items then their attacks will hurt. Yeah sure, he's fine. He must be fine even though he's reached 223% banrate in Korean Challenger. /s https://preview.redd.it/3hc3fgrs5f941.png?width=1283&format=png&auto=webp&s=d189cf842706f65c4382ef10f42bbe2586bc63a7 sure he's fun to play as. but against? there's a problem. He is unfair to lane and play against. You wanted statistics, here they are.
: Seriously guys. He is immobile... Gank him. Leona him. Thresh him. Why is he being made out to be a god?
> [{quoted}](name=TheÐarkMagician,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=byOFqfYf,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2020-01-07T17:13:01.591+0000) > > Seriously guys. He is immobile... Gank him. Leona him. Thresh him. Why is he being made out to be a god? you dont always pick after him to counter like that. and not everyone can play those champs either in their role... if the only counter to a champion is to gank him in a group with hard engage (rammus, malphite, etc) then there's a problem. That is everyone's counter. and right now it's his only counter BARELY depending on what weapon he is using and if he has ult available AND he is ALONE.
: > [{quoted}](name=Waka FIocka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=byOFqfYf,comment-id=0006000100000000,timestamp=2020-01-07T11:50:52.456+0000) > > The only weapon of his that applies anything globally is the sniper rifle. > > nope. gravitum has a 1s global root on marked enemies. works with {{item:3085}} as well so he can root a whole team easily + slow. I Can he apply the root from a global range though? Nope he needs to go in AA range first so it´s not really like that one matters at all. And for him to get an easy root on the enemy team in this manner they´d have to be r%%%%%ed enough to stand ontop eachother, very bloody likely.....or not. >didn't say anything about weapons though. I said on every autoattack ^^ so whichever gun has global he can utilize long, long range damage and cc. Plus I feel like it's worth mentioning that champions never really got globals like this before. They were always tied to an ultimate so for him to only need to attack someone for this is huge. How much power does he actually gain from this though? His sniper gives him a second shot for free even if his enemies are running but only one, can be useful but can also do nothing. Global CC? Enemies have to actually run into him while he is carrying this gun for him to apply it.......honestly this to me is not really different from dealing with say Kalista E or Lee Q where they have enough range to the point where running out of their range is a plan not likely to succeed. > oh dang, he can only choose between 2 ults at any given time? that must be rough for him. And most of those ults are not problematic. > and yes his self heal is huge considering he doesn't even need to buy a BT because his sustain scales with him & _eventually even surpasses the effects of BT_. So what if the sustain scales well? He does not always have access to it and the shield is smaller than BT´s. Would be a pretty lame ability if it did not scale. > I agree on infernum ult being over the top, both the ult and the spread behind every attack he shoots out. With {{item:3085}} it's crazy like I mentioned. On every weapon actually, since even with his sniper he can global several people at once with that item. Only his flamethrower ult does that much damage to the point where it´s a terror, and for him to get any use of his sniper ultimate his opponents in the manner you describe his enemies have to cluster ontop eachother while he is running away and then they have to run too while he has vision on them....not sure about the last part but fairly so. If just comparing those we can just mention that Orianna and her ult combo can do far more damage than that even if it has less range......provided no one is helping her deliver the ball of course. So yeah i dunno, if we always assume enemies stand ontop eachother then there are champions way more broken than Aphelios(no flamethorwer), way way more.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=byOFqfYf,comment-id=00060001000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-07T12:08:01.169+0000) > > Can he apply the root from a global range though? Nope he needs to go in AA range first so it´s not really like that one matters at all. > > And for him to get an easy root on the enemy team in this manner they´d have to be r%%%%%ed enough to stand ontop eachother, very bloody likely.....or not. > > How much power does he actually gain from this though? His sniper gives him a second shot for free even if his enemies are running but only one, can be useful but can also do nothing. > > Global CC? Enemies have to actually run into him while he is carrying this gun for him to apply it.......honestly this to me is not really different from dealing with say Kalista E or Lee Q where they have enough range to the point where running out of their range is a plan not likely to succeed. > > And most of those ults are not problematic. > > So what if the sustain scales well? He does not always have access to it and the shield is smaller than BT´s. > > Would be a pretty lame ability if it did not scale. > > Only his flamethrower ult does that much damage to the point where it´s a terror, and for him to get any use of his sniper ultimate his opponents in the manner you describe his enemies have to cluster ontop eachother while he is running away and then they have to run too while he has vision on them....not sure about the last part but fairly so. > > If just comparing those we can just mention that Orianna and her ult combo can do far more damage than that even if it has less range......provided no one is helping her deliver the ball of course. > > So yeah i dunno, if we always assume enemies stand ontop eachother then there are champions way more broken than Aphelios(no flamethorwer), way way more. he is an adc. there are many reasons why someone would have to go into his attack range (teamfights) lol. but you're right... go into his various aa ranges and you're dead. But wait ... his ult is a projectile with 1575 range. all of you are dead because of his globals and various ranges/ults being tripled by runaans. So what if his sustain surpasses a BT and his damage doesn't require damage items or even winning a lane or securing several kills. Yeah it's fair that he can be 0/6 and wipe a whole team with 1 aa Q R. Or just R.
: > [{quoted}](name=Waka FIocka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=byOFqfYf,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2020-01-07T07:33:13.157+0000) > > sorry what > he really does have no weakness. > > he has a weapon that hits you 6 times in under 2 seconds, dealing massive dmg + healing him to full AND overshielding him. It does not actually heal that much on its own? And if we are talking when he´s full build with crit and AD.....well yah, any marksman heals to full in no time at all at this point. > He has an ult for every occasion He can only choose between 2 at a time so not really. > he has a turret that is basically like cloning himself in an area. Turret is pretty strong but it´s only really broken tier with flamethrower as far as i heard&saw. > he has a global effect for every single auto attack he lands LOL are you joking with me? The only weapon of his that applies anything globally is the sniper rifle. > his only "weakness" is being in the hands of an unskilled player just like yasuo. and that is a problem > > edited to fix some shit i typed backwards lol His weakness arises from the fact that he only has 2 weapons at a time and he cant access the others without wasting his current ones, so while he´s always good at something he´s never good at everything. Unlike how some marksmen are when they get past their early game. Lets say he gets his rifle and his gravity gun, what can he possibly do when a melee dives on him? Neither weapon has good DPS, gravity gun has a root but it´s short so no one with tenacity will really give a crap......then he dies. Chakrams? Good damage but short range and he has no defensive steroids so one misstep and he dies, turrets are good but on the other hand they are easy to play around. Flamethrower? Ungodly powerful ultimate and too much synergy&power with the rest but if just auto attacking by itself it does not do much. Lifesteal gun? Short range but it´s ability gives him some ability to kite and it´s the only one i think melee have to watch out for aside from walking into 2-4 charkram turrets.
>LOL are you joking with me? The only weapon of his that applies anything globally is the sniper rifle. nope. gravitum has a 1s global root on marked enemies. works with {{item:3085}} as well so he can root a whole team easily + slow. I didn't say anything about weapons though. I said on every autoattack ^^ so whichever gun has global he can utilize long, long range damage and cc. Plus I feel like it's worth mentioning that champions never really got globals like this before. They were always tied to an ultimate so for him to only need to attack someone for this is huge. oh dang, he can only choose between 2 ults at any given time? that must be rough for him. and yes his self heal is huge considering he doesn't even need to buy a BT because his sustain scales with him & _eventually even surpasses the effects of BT_. I agree on infernum ult being over the top, both the ult and the spread behind every attack he shoots out. With {{item:3085}} it's crazy like I mentioned. On every weapon actually, since even with his sniper he can global several people at once with that item.
: I would rather play supp any day of the week over jungler
> [{quoted}](name=KlydeFrog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0sL9FKEj,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2020-01-06T17:53:22.226+0000) > > I would rather play supp any day of the week over jungler that doesnt make support great, fun, or satisfying. believe me. jg and botlane are both in really bad spots right now. the exp changes, drake changes, and alcove addition really made a mess of things and not just for junglers, sorry. you guys have it just as bad as us. we lose to one gank, it's just as hard for us to come back as you losing to an invade in your jungle. instead of comparing our woes we should be banding together to get our shit reverted and fixed so it can actually be fun and satisfying.
: If You Want People to Jungle, it Needs to be Made Fun and Satisfying
>Riot, you've put in a lot of effort turning Support into an entertaining, fulfilling, and satisfying role for the community. i cant lol they put a lot of effort into gutting support so other laners can't abuse their only items for income they put a lot of effort into forcing midlane mages into the support role but then nerfing them to hell when players complain about their poke they put a lot of effort into making umbral glaive for only their newest ad support champions while the rest have to slog through vision control the normal way they put a lot of effort into cutting botlane exp so we're vulnerable at all stages of the game they put a lot of effort into increases drake prio while simultaneously cutting support income, sustain, damage, and exp yeah they sure do put in a lot of effort to make support great
: Like this is pretty accurate and can be said for any champion that CT has either designed or been the main director when it came to a rework. At least Aphelios breaks the trend of not having any weaknesses at long last, he is immobile and does not have any really powerful defensive tools while also lacking in any insane damage steroids. Better yet as far as i can tell the only OP part is the flamethrower and the way it works with other stuff in his kit, it can be nerfed and there is hope that he wont be impossible to balance even if it will be messy and take a long time to sort everything through. And he will probably be prone to causing issue´s with items&runes same as Ezreal but at least he wont be anywhere near Yasuo or Akali in terms of being nasty to play against. When he is not OP that is, which given Riot´s late trend of not nerfing stuff might be something we´ll have to endure for a while.....
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=byOFqfYf,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2020-01-06T17:34:45.708+0000) > > Like this is pretty accurate and can be said for any champion that CT has either designed or been the main director when it came to a rework. > > > > At least Aphelios breaks the trend of not having any weaknesses at long last, he is immobile and does not have any really powerful defensive tools while also lacking in any insane damage steroids. > > Better yet as far as i can tell the only OP part is the flamethrower and the way it works with other stuff in his kit, it can be nerfed and there is hope that he wont be impossible to balance even if it will be messy and take a long time to sort everything through. > > And he will probably be prone to causing issue´s with items&runes same as Ezreal but at least he wont be anywhere near Yasuo or Akali in terms of being nasty to play against. > > When he is not OP that is, which given Riot´s late trend of not nerfing stuff might be something we´ll have to endure for a while..... sorry what he really does have no weakness. he has a weapon that hits you 6 times in under 2 seconds, dealing massive dmg + healing him to full AND overshielding him. He has an ult for every occasion he has a turret that is basically like cloning himself in an area. he has a global effect for every single auto attack he lands "breaks the trend of not having any weakness" okay his only "weakness" is being in the hands of an unskilled player just like yasuo. and that is a problem edited to fix some shit i typed backwards lol
: Aphelios is the protagonist of his own game
yep.... not sure why these snowflake, minimal outplay-potential champions are in a strategy oriented moba. been saying this for a while about Yasuo and Akali before Aphelios release. Aphelios has too many globals he can spam. he swaps ranges and attack speeds on the fly. how did riot expect him to be fair to lane against? because rng? it's not THAT rng when he can build crit/aspd and cycle through guns in no time {{item:3085}} interaction with his kit is fucking nuts too. honestly if I could change anything in this game by some league genie it would be to heavily tone down Yasuo and Aphelios. It sucks playing lane against a Yasuo. He punishes everything, zips around, has knockup ranged cc, shields, ignores your armor if you even try to build against him properly, doesn't take any harass from turret for some reason if he dives with R, and his windwall invalidates entire ultimates + kits of many champs (ahri, lux, etc). Playing against a champion (with no lead, no kills, not fed at all) that requires you to be a mile away from your own wave/lane is frustrating. champs like this just shouldn't exist.
Show more

Waka FIocka

Level 146 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion