Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Sylaelque (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Whiisp,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X12pxYhg,comment-id=0021000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-07T04:04:41.886+0000) > > Eh boy my dude. You have not been reading much of this post have you. I have a master account as well thus why I am speaking of D2+. > > But yes, whatever you say. I stopped reading at D1 OCE. > > Good day. Hahaha, seems it is touched your truth so you manage to report and get comment deleted.
Comment Section is meant for people who want to add ideas and be productive. Not petty and make attacks towards people. Thus why the comment was removed. (Takes a lot more than only 1 report btw to get it removed) Please keep it civilized and productive.
Sylaelque (EUW)
: ***
Eh boy my dude. You have not been reading much of this post have you. I have a master account as well thus why I am speaking of D2+. But yes, whatever you say. I stopped reading at D1 OCE. Good day.
Sylaelque (EUW)
: Some people thinking like this and I'm sure Riot have same idea with them: https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/BqZ2taKb-please-remove-auto-fill-from-ranked-games?comment=0001 I disagreed with your opinion because you said just in Diamond+ It is so selfish desire.
Funny reason for a disagreement. However, if you go back and read the text, you will understand why I said this. Let me know once you do read, then let's talk!
: lol queue times don't only exist for diamond players nor does toxicity and autofill. If I had to wait 30 minutes for a game and have to dodge, I'm not gonna wait another 30 minutes. Because the probability someone else dodges is still the same either way. Toxicity isn't caused by autofill it's caused by players who don't want to win the game either way. There's a difference between queuing and getting dodges that accumulate to waiting 30 minutes (which I doubt but lets roll with it mr.diamond), and knowing every time I queue I have to wait 30 minutes. Because that's what low priority queue is like and that makes me not want to play the game anymore. Riot isn't gonna make a change that causes most players to want to quit. And newsflash, the boards are not most players. I still think you grossly misunderstand how much longer queues would be if autofill was taken out. Especially at higher elos. The distributions of intended roles are not even. Someone else stated it perfectly, if there's 10,000 top laners and supports and the rest are mid, adc, jg players online, then only 10,000 games are possible while everyone has to wait. Autofill allows so any of those thousands of people to at least be put into a game. You already see it in Overwatch where queuing for damage is a lot longer than the other roles. Someone losing their mental in a diamond game occurs just as frequently it's a coinflip and should just be inherent to playing league at this point. So you'd rather have dodges and trolls AND long queue times? Or shorter queue times, and the occasional bad game or dodge?
Missing the point. I'm not going to argue on stuff that is not even the main subject discussion.
5050BS (NA)
: Why should D+ get the this and not everyone? Autofill Ruins Low ELO too. If my Jungler in Silver is autofilled its really high chance we lose. Same for ADC (but jungle is the biggest impact)
Here for you, It's marked as #3 and is in bold in the first 3 lines of the text. Keep in mind, this does not mean Auto Fill needs to be removed to fix the problem. It simply is the problem currently and need to be tweaked at the very least and reviewed to better adapt to Diamond+.(Maybe other Elo too, I can personally only speak for what I know.)
Saevum (NA)
: Before this system and all, we used to have a gentlemen agreement on first pick, and on. People used to KNOW how to play most roles, cause there was a chance that you might get last pick, obviously. Nowdays, no one wants to do anything.
Hmm, We must not have played the same game. I remember crystal clear the system being changed after too many complaints of people refusing to play certain role when they we're last pick. I remember clearly people being last pick and refusing to lock in support champs and just went wherever for example. Also, keep in mind, over time the game develops and the player base age also changes. With a well known game with info everywhere, it's easy for people to grow egos and think they know more than anyone and dismiss everything they don't believe... Because someone on YouTube told them Mid Was best carry role etc. Unlike the old days where everyone was still learning everything. It's just a normal game growing with a player base, this stuff happens. Every game that is new has it's ''glory days'' and all the players still living in the past with their nostalgia forgetting why some system are no more.
5050BS (NA)
: Why should D+ get the this and not everyone? Autofill Ruins Low ELO too. If my Jungler in Silver is autofilled its really high chance we lose. Same for ADC (but jungle is the biggest impact)
Read the text please. I said I'm proposing this for Diamond 2+ (D+) because that is where I play and what I know. Please read and you will see that i mention, if other elos want this too, then go ahead, but I'm sticking to what I know and won't go make assumption about other ranks. Cheers, please read before posting!
: I'm telling you that people will still dodge and troll games. Making longer queue times will not prevent people from being toxic. If anything they could be MORE toxic because they waited 30 minutes to get in a losing game. Also what about one tricks like me who will dodge regardless?
You missed the point completely. Please read. We're not talking about removing toxicity as a whole here. We're talking about removing it in that aspect alone. Of course people will still dodge... like.... OF COURSE. lmao. Thing is, people still dodging will be people who will have longer queues over time, so it's up to them. We remove one of the dodge causes and one of the troll aspect. I'm not gonna write a 1k words text to help you read between the lines here as well for stuff that is grasped and commonly understood at Diamond+. You will have to do that on your own time, once you reach that rank. Cheers
: Riot can't make players play the game correctly. If someone doesn't take the game seriously that was their decision to do so. The only incentive is LP and the prospect of getting banned, as well as leaver buster. If these are not enough, there is no system to make other PEOPLE do what you want.
Whiisp (NA)
: As much as Auto fill is a good concept on paper, it ruins too many games [Diamond 2+ (Diamond+)]
I'm Seeing a Crap ton of comment about how the queue time would be this and that and that it would not work etc etc. Keep in mind, this post is mainly to bring attention to the way it's projecting toxicity and trolling in way more games than it should and the fact that 30 seconds queues should not be a thing at this elo if it gives you too many auto fills. It can certainly wait 5 more minutes to give better quality in more games than right now. This post is not necessarily to debate what stats would do to queue times or whatever, but to make Riot realize that something needs to change in order to remove the negative game experiences happening. If that means keeping auto fill but adding something else that works ? Listen... AWESOME, go for it. But nothing is being done currently to address this issue other than the overwhelmed tribunal and their lack of severity. A lot of people are fine with being auto filled and will not troll if they end up being filled and this happens to both team so it's ''kinda fair''(What makes it unfair is when you have a jungler filled and they have a top filled, then role power makes a difference). And that is totally fine because game quality if they try is still there. I don't have a problem with people sucking on a role more than anything. I have a problem with people joining champ select, get filled and then if it is not dodged and they die once, they call gg and leave the game at 3 minutes because they don't like the role therefore don't want to play A GAME, if it's not fun to them.(And that's one occurrence) The Other Ideas in the vote is mainly targeted for this as I also seen many comments bringing suggestion about different system like role preferences, 3 roles selection etc. Keep bringing those. **Something simply needs to change**, and the root cause of it is the way auto fill work **at the moment**, not how it is meant to work in a perfect world. (Yes it's a player base issue, but all riot can change is their system, they can't change their players. Only listen to them.)
: Riot has stated in the past that without auto-fill, popular role queues could be well over an hour, and that outside of the lowest popularity roles, most roles would see 45+ minute queues. Now, this was a while ago so may not be ENTIRELY accurate anymore, but I doubt the case has changed that much. So it's not 'an extra 5-10 minutes', its not even 'an extra 20 minutes', it's an extra 45 minutes. An extra hour. If you're mid, possibly even an extra 2 hours. (And bear in mind that when the queue times get that long the possibility someone has forgotten about it and walked away rises, meaning you'll get more failed queues as well) Still worth it? I didn't vote on the poll because I'm not in the affected range so I have no opinion myself. But it's important to make sure everyone knows exactly what the trade is. lol
Yes, this was a while ago, and this was based on very high end players at least the one I saw. The thing is that people in high end soloQ just don't play the game other than decay games(A lot of them), pros also only do in house as much as possible as they hate soloQ. Auto fill does not need to be removed entirely, but We want to see tweaks or changes at the very least. If the queue is 2 minutes and I have 3 auto fill, the system is doing something wrong. Make it 10 minute with 1 auto fill, and that's a change I can get behind of. Depends how they want to approach this.
IainG10 (EUW)
: Gotta agree here; I will admit I know nothing about high Elo, but in S/G any team that has a Jungle Main auto-wins against filled Junglers. Some of this I'm sure is to do with Riot's frankly stupid jungle changes, making the champs that used to be able to farm and stay relevant non-viable and forcing early fights for Scuttle. But a lot is to do with mechanical knowledge; when to gank which lane and playing around which objectives. Do you take drake or help Top secure/not lose First Tower? Will Elder or Baron help you close out the game vs an enemy turtle in their base? And it's not like I wait long in the queue... As a Support Main I get in within about 15s. I'd certainly be happier to wait longer if there was a higher chance the people on my team actually knew their roles.
Precisely. And the higher you go, the bigger the difference between filled jungler as an example is apparent. The thing is like you say, we are literally waiting no time at all for a game. If auto fill is not removed they can at least extend that by a few minutes to give us better quality more often. There's so many work around they can do.
: Ok, and how the fuck would you match Diamond players with other Diamond players when role distribution isn't a perfect 20% per role and autofill is disabled? Let's take EUW as an example. You've got roughly 100k players who are D4 or higher. Since master+ is around 2 thousand.... ish... they can be ignored since 100k is a nice and round number. Top and support are the least popular roles with ~10%~ of the playerbase picking those roles as primary or secondary. <- This is a guesstimate and might not reflect the actual numbers but it's useful to get the point across. So now you have 10k support players, 10k toplane players(primary OR secondary) and 80k ~other~ players. Let's for a moment assume that players willing to play toplane and support don't play any more games than other roles on average which I believe is reasonable. If suddenly every single diamond player was online and looking for a game which is your best-case scenario you can now make 5 thousand matched games with no autofill(since you need 2 toplaners and 2 supports per game). Now you still have 50k players looking for a game and still need 10 thousand toplane and support players but literally none are left in diamond. Your options are: 1.)Pull lower ranked players, they're plentiful. This will hurt the quality of the games and since you're pulling lower ranked players from only a few roles it will increase the autofill rate for platinum where it's still enabled. If your goal is more competitive games this is really not what you want. 2.)Extend the queue times to a length that's higher than an average pick/Ban + game. So around 35 minutes but only for non top/support players who now get to play 2 games for each 1 other roles play. This also massively hurts the experience for higher rank play. A 5 minute queue instead of 30 seconds is totally fine. A 35 minute one is completely excessive, especially for diamond. Now realistically you won't ever have ALL of diamond online, you might have 10% of them online at once and that's optimistic. But the ratio problem is still the same unless top and support players somehow spend more time online and looking for a game than everyone else. There is no magic bullet solution for this problem. Increased queue times help a bit when the matchmaker is limited by computational power, it can't look through and sort all the millions of players looking for a game in all elos and modes. But for higher elo this is much less of an issue so the matchmaker is much more limited by the pool of players currently in queue. So the matchmaker either autofills someone or expands the MMR bracket it's willing to pull from. Or literally does nothing productive and waits hoping that someone with the appropriate MMR and role selection will join the queue. Now let's say you set a limit on "no autofill queues" at D2 and to fix role imbalance you just pull role-appropriate D3 and D4 players. Not ideal but hey, it happens all the time anyway. Now you've created another problem, D3 and D4 are now completely fucking starved of toplaners and supports since they're all in D2 games. You've now created the "ultra autofill bracket" that's even more cancerous to climb through.
It would not be 35 minutes for Diamond. Because for one, the higher you rank up, the more players in support and top you will find simple fact, just play at those rank and look up everyone before every game. There's not really that misconception that every 1 get's support. Every single role other than mid, gets auto fill thrown into them, because the system does not wait to find people, it throws everyone in ASAP. Second, Current dodges occurrence already put queue times at around 30 minutes. Why not get a first queue pop at 30, which won't happen, and go into game rather than wait for 5 dodges in a row(No exaggeration, this happens a lot). Take the Master+ Bracket, queue times aren't long/fast because of auto fill. The queue time is defined by the amount of players camping LP, no denying that. Again, Auto fill itself does not need to be removed, if it is tweaked in a way that works, awesome. Add a 3rd role for example to choose from. Better than getting your 5th role. There's compromises. Work Around. Those incentive in D2+ Makes people want to play on those accounts, maybe not this alone, but it's a start, therefore queue times get better. You would be surprised how many people don't play games other than decay games... Pros also barely play in NA, and do in house instead or don't play cause soloQ is garbage. Just keep up to date with high elo players complaining about how little player actually play in that elo and you will get my point. Current queue time on my D1 account is 1-3 minutes at peak hour(4pm to 12am). with 1-2 auto fill. Wait 5 more minutes and I guarantee you, it finds all on roles players. That's not long at all. There's enough player on any role to fill it. Queue times would be very high in the morning for EST though, that yes I can see it as it is already long with auto fill on. It's a thing to tweak for certain hours. Maybe enable no auto fill for 6 hours a day at peak hour... Who knows what magic can happen. The main problem right now, is that the system does not try to wait long to find people. You can see by the amount of time people get autofilled mid lane and say ''how the fuck am i auto filled mid'' As obviously the most played role should give you a big enough number of population to be able to give you an on role mid laner every single game,.... RIGHT?!.... Nope, that does not happen all the time.
Yboat (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Face it,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X12pxYhg,comment-id=000d00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-05T05:02:26.030+0000) > > He already told you. He's already waiting 30 min for a good game. Do 1+1... If it takes this long he's ok with it as long as it's a good game, regardless, without auto fills and dodges it would be lower than this because theres a lot of support main in these elos... Jesus you are getting into the petty game right now. Pathetic. No he siad he is waiting that long to get into a game. He said nothing about the quality. I did some looking into the last 15 games on his account. Only one was close. The rest were either stomps or 10 pkus diffrent in kill counts. He is a mid/ adc player. He played support once and top once in those 15 games. I am goinf to assume that they were filled. Which is not that too far off from what rito said. 1 in 10 games are fill. The top fill he was the stomping team, the support he was stomped. So he is waiting 30 mins to gey into game, how long is he willing to wait to get a close game like the one i saw that was close. Stomps either way are not good games. A game that are close are. Like it ir not fill will always be a part of an game that you get too pick your position. The only way to combat dodging is strick penalty for it. Currently its -3 lp, which is way less then a loss. In other games it is several times what a loss is. If lol did that and then started taking action against the trolls, it would fix the issues we are having. It would suck for awhile, but it would fix them
Don't tell him he does not know, he's replying too much he's contradicting his own points lmao. Good. He's obviously not really good to read between the lines and understand the most basic stuff about ranked games in diamond while looking up games... shhh
Whiisp (NA)
: Yeah, that's what I said in another comment and why I added Diamond+ in it as splitting diamond as a whole in 2 does not really make sense. But High elo really just begins At D2 as for pretty much everyone standard of agreement. But yes auto fill alone is not bad, just the way people responds to it.
But they can't change people so they can only adapt to the people.
: If autofill gets removed for dia 2 and above it also need to be removed as dia 3 and below. Fairness 4 all plz. But ye its absolutely true . autofill force ppl so hard to go afk and something else .... if it got banned fast ok no problem but this never will happen so i guess remove autofill is a good thing or create any system like we can turn on/off autofill with cause of lower priority queue for off-turners LUL off-turners-sick-word?! I mean i have basically no problem with autofill actually . the trolllvl in my elo is hard enough even without and since league of legends became a state of Elo doesnt matter cuz silvers can rly be better than master-players based on luck i give rly a f*ck on my elo. There are so many ppl playing like dogsh*t but are in Master for real while some good players are hardstucking in lower elo´s . So autofill and trolls because of it are basically ignored for me. The real experience of Gaming is actually only possible if you have full 5-Player-Teams in Championships or something else.
Yeah, that's what I said in another comment and why I added Diamond+ in it as splitting diamond as a whole in 2 does not really make sense. But High elo really just begins At D2 as for pretty much everyone standard of agreement. But yes auto fill alone is not bad, just the way people responds to it.
Yboat (NA)
: 5 mins is a short que. Give me a number.
Lmao Face it chill he's got a family. Yes as he said to make a point clear to you... once again.... A lot more than 5 minutes. Above 20+ is starting to get a bit long IMO. So in between that is ideal. 5 more minutes won't kill me either. Currently Challenger players wait about 10 minutes before 1st queue pop, then 1-4 minutes between each dodges. That's with more than half of the player base not touching their accounts in those ranks. Give them incentive to play high end SoloQ. This goes down a lot. Adding Decay games does not do that job. Your false assumption that queues are long and removing auto fill would make it more so, is unfounded. Because at this rank, people play a crap ton and have a lot of time. Thus making queue times a lot faster than even lower ranks if people play the game. But they don't. Hope this answer suffice you, and yes, your falling into petty arguments. So please. Take a breath. Good day.
Yboat (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Whiisp,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X12pxYhg,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2019-11-05T04:34:53.639+0000) > > You are missing too many point and dumming down too many things / Interpreting things I said in the wrong way. No wonder it's hard to keep up with what you are saying... You don't play ranked or know how the system work... > > Let me make 1 point clear to you. I'm talking about game quality. Auto fill problems cause toxic problems. If it's remove and people dodge, the toxicity is removed because no one has to be mad at anyone for not having a role. Will they rage at comp ? Not more than they do now and now is not a problem that is even close to be big enough to even lay a thought over because dodges over comp never happen unless it's full ad. Which is once every 50 games (But you wouldn't know cause you don't play). > > When I say dodging is good for comp, I'm basing this on the fact auto fill is active. It's in essence not good. But HAS to be there to balance the bullshit caused by Riot system. Remove auto fill and remove dodges because you essentially don't need them anymore because no one will troll unless they decided to do so even before getting into champ select. That removes your toxicity factor right there. And by toxicity, just to make sure you are still following, means trolling as well. > > Listen, this thread is for diamond players, not someone trying to debate stuff he does not even play himself as someone pointed out earlier. Insight is good but when you start going over the classic bullshit of ''this is why the player base is like blah blah'' you just lose all credibility. > > I don't get why you try to spend your time on something that if it changes won't ever touch you or 99% of the player base... You are literally missing the first 2 lines of this post, in BOLD too... Like dude... lmao u make me think of a dude i went to college with and that's not a compliment... So answer my question. How long are you willing to wait for said quality game? It is what it all boils down too. I understanf all to well. You think lol roll que is bad. You should have tried hots when they still had max que. Whats that you ask? Its when after x ammount of time you get the next game no matter what. Imgaine being rank 1( the elo you are talkng about in this thread) and getting stuck in a game with 9 rank 40s( bronze) or in season one where you make gm( challenger) and get stuck in a gold 5 game. I have been at the extreme end of bad mm systems. What i am saying, is that autofill will always be part of the system if you get to select rolls. Removing it is not the answer, it will not work. Making it better is the only solution. I can think of 2 other 5v5 games that removed all player info until the game luanched. I did noy improve the game play, but in both cases it cut the draft dodges in half. Which ment que times droped to 40% of what they were. So once again, how long are you willing to wait?
Alright listen... We are willing to wait a lot more than the current 30 seconds to 5 minutes. Constant Dodges cause of the auto fills makes the queue last 30 minutes already. Don't bring HotS into this lmao... Game is out of the portrait for a reason. Read what face it said. HIGH ELO PLAYERS AKA CHALLENGER don't even play the game right now. I don't know on what planet you live, but these players, the top 1000, play in houses, scrims anything to save them from SoloQ. ANYTHING. Ask anyone. I'm not taking this out of my butt either. I know wayy too many people who would rather not play league than play SoloQ at Master+. Thus why they camp LP and play amateur. Listen because this is the last reply... As Face it said it... You don't know what High elo is and it's not league games as you normally see it. At higher Rank it's pro players and upcoming talents etc. We're talking professional paid sport here. Things need to be different. As mentioned, if they tweak it and it works, perfect. It just needs to change. Period. Get to Master, try it out for yourself, and let me know what you think. Thanks.
Face it (NA)
: Dude jesus christ. For one, you don't even play ranked and you try to change something that will never touch you ? You don't even know what your talking about, betting money on unfounded assumptions. Making shit up that just makes absolutely no sense in ranked environement. What are you even basing all your information off of ? I'm not sure I'm getting the level 250 vibe of only playing normals and trying to appear as a know it all on how ranked at high elo should work... lmao. High elo is not even the same as SoloQ literally. Anyway, it's undeniable that high elo soloq is bad. And that's why there's in houses being made... and no it's not only for ping. It's because people can play in a competitive environment, with everyone on roles, everyone try Harding. For you, this game, is just a game. But for high elo, it's a professional Sport. A game Vs a Pro Sport... Take a minute and let that sink in. we are casuals. We have no insight on how people making a living off this game think about the game and how some stuff, just makes it terrible and need to be changed. And your going to tell me, Diamond 2+ is not pro or anything blah blah... This is the beggning of high elo, where the rookies and the upcoming talent is playing in. If this elo sucks, then high elo players don't want to play and you hear them complain all the time.This is not in your area of discussion, so just don't take part in it ? Don't you think ? For us in low elo like me and you playing normals, this is not even gonna matter to us because as this posts says, if they add it only for Diamond+, you will need to reach Diamond in the first place. So why bother... Our games will be just the same.
Yboat (NA)
: So lets play the what if game. Lets just say auto fill is gone, but the que times stay the same as it removes the autofill dodges. Now the limiting factor is the lowest played roll. How long will it take the player base to start dodging based ob the draft? Which means we are back at the same point we are at now. Its a player base issue. So what do we do when dodging based on match up( or even pick order) becomes the norm? Ask any diamond + player on rather or not they want 1st pick or counter pick. Like it or not, as long as we can pick our rolls, autofill will not go away. I am not saying the system works, becuase it clearly does not. Rather then re ove the system, we need to tweak it. There are lots of people in thus thread that do not understand that player based issues will not change. The best thing we can do is try and mitigate it. Removing autofill will just mean it goes to anothrr reason to dodge. Look, i get it, its frustrating too lose over something tjat is not your control. Yes, the mm sucks. Yes, autofill sucks. Niether if those things are going to change. Any mm based of the elo system will fail in any multi player game that does not have fixed teams. Autofill will always be a thing when you can select your roll. One roll will always be the limiting factor. This thread really has showed me alot about why lol is in the state it is in. Things like " dodging is needed to keep it competitive " think about that statment in reguards to the player base. It does not paint a pretty pic. What i am saying here, removing autofill will just lead to more problems that need to " be fixed" later. I wpuld bet $100 that with in 6 months of removing autofill, player base actually drops 20% and dodges still happen 50% as often as thry do now. Dodging is thr symptoms of the player base issue, not the cuase
You are missing too many point and dumming down too many things / Interpreting things I said in the wrong way. No wonder it's hard to keep up with what you are saying... You don't play ranked or know how the system work... Let me make 1 point clear to you. I'm talking about game quality. Auto fill problems cause toxic problems. If it's remove and people dodge, the toxicity is removed because no one has to be mad at anyone for not having a role. Will they rage at comp ? Not more than they do now and now is not a problem that is even close to be big enough to even lay a thought over because dodges over comp never happen unless it's full ad. Which is once every 50 games (But you wouldn't know cause you don't play). When I say dodging is good for comp, I'm basing this on the fact auto fill is active. It's in essence not good. But HAS to be there to balance the bullshit caused by Riot system. Remove auto fill and remove dodges because you essentially don't need them anymore because no one will troll unless they decided to do so even before getting into champ select. That removes your toxicity factor right there. And by toxicity, just to make sure you are still following, means trolling as well. Listen, this thread is for diamond players, not someone trying to debate stuff he does not even play himself as someone pointed out earlier. Insight is good but when you start going over the classic bullshit of ''this is why the player base is like blah blah'' you just lose all credibility. I don't get why you try to spend your time on something that if it changes won't ever touch you or 99% of the player base... You are literally missing the first 2 lines of this post, in BOLD too... Like dude... lmao u make me think of a dude i went to college with and that's not a compliment...
: back before dynamic queue/role selection and autofill we had pick order ... top 3 picks typically got to chose the roles they wanted and the last picks were forced to fill a role. that was always a thing. every now and then people would call out like ADC main, ADC preferred etc and people would be flexible to a degree why has this thing gone away? if you are auto filled say something, maybe someone is willing to swap if they are good in more then 1 role. also back in the day you were kinda forced to know at least 1 champ per role outside your main role if you were forced to fill and nearly every one could play a support. typically you had a main role, secondary role and a champ for 3 off roles. i think the addition to role selection and people being able to main 1 role/ one trick more so now then in years pass has lead to the watering down of game knowledge and skill. whats better a grand master on 1 champ in one role of a diamond 2 player who can play multiple roles /champs at that level?
The GM is way better than the D2 not even close. And everyone good at the game will agree they would much rather play with specialized players rather than jack of all trades. Even back then, idk if you really played, but it was removed because similar occurrences happened. People we're forced on roles they did not want and trolled or the game quality was bad. Especially in high elo. Roles assignment fixed this, as well as the constant war between who could call the role first of previously. They even added that to normals because it was a problem even there. This point as been disclosed and fixed a while ago.
: I hope this gains traction cause it is a problem. Auto fill is toxic for the high elo community and does nothing but enable toxicity. It almost boils down to a quality vs quantity kind of debate. Imo, I'd rather play 5 games where everyone is on their best role giving it their all, than playing 10 where 5 of them players are auto filled and the quality suffers greatly. Sign me up for long queue times for actual games, I'll just play runescape while I wait. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
Can't agree more. Auto filled games just force me to take breaks in between because thjey tilt me for no visible reason. It should just not be a thing. Or be revised and modified.
: BUT MUH QUEUE TIMES
At a certain Elo, people have more time to play. It's a meme but also a very true fact that a lot of higher elo players just don't want girlfriend or life stuff that keeps the away from the game. At a certain rank, you make compromise to play more :P
Yenn (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Yboat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X12pxYhg,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-11-05T00:13:45.643+0000) > > So once again it's a player base issue, not an autofill issue. How many lobbies does it take to get into game? Each one after the 1st is 99% becuase of a dodge. Wby not take the step of removing identifying plyers until in game 1st? While it wont stop dodging, it will help. It will also improve mmr as a metric of in game skills, rather then how good you are " stacking thd deck" > > The other side of that is if you deserve your mmr/ win rate you can do it by not dodging. I know that sounds harsh, but it's true. Same with otp that have a 60% + win rate on thier otp, but drasticly lower on anything else. You could have a 100% win rate over 500 games in lets say mid lane in korean challenger on your otp, but a 0% at the same elo on any one else. That does not mean you make faker look bronze, it means you are not well rounded in lol. You willnot be playing at the pro level, not matter how good of a otp you are. This post is absolute garbage and shows no knowledge of how the game works at high elo. I feel like we should have Diamond+ restricted boards to facilitate actual discussion of high elo issues without this uneducated spam. It doesn't matter that I know how to play every role. If auto-fill only gives me top in 1/30 games, I'm going to be completely out of practice with it. This isn't a big deal for some roles, where trades are cut and dry, but it will absolutely make you lose in top or jungle, where a single misjudged interaction often results in death. Also, at high elo, it only takes a single player performing poorly to completely sabotage the game, which is a reality you're either ignoring or completely ignorant of. One player being auto-filled and feeding will cause a loss for the other four players on their team, regardless of their performance.
Yeah, I'd love to see something like this. As I'm pretty sure a lot of votes also come from people not in diamond which just alters the point I'm trying to make.
Face it (NA)
: I understand you trying to back this up with stats. But stats oriented systems don't work. You have to listen to what players want and make an in between. As stats alone is never well received as the player base does not act according to data, they act on feelings. Fail to answer the feelings/ desire the players want and you game becomes a dead game, as high elo is currently with a lot of people camping LP. But that feeling part you can't grasp and neither can I as I'm not that rank. And you only play normal so you have no idea same as me. High elo is a much different beast, same with pro play. Riot has been making changes for high elo only in the past like the removal of duoQ. This is because high elo/ 0-1% of the player base does not interact the same way the other 99%c does. And for competitive sake, Riot must act in order to raise the region to a better level. That CoreJJ post about NA SoloQ quality is something of a GEM, and a cry from the hearth of a player trying to raise ideas and thoughts about how this can be improved. Don't get me wrong... Stats needs to be used in that process. Not just used alone as you are placing it.
Good point. That's exactly what I mean when I point out the system being good but people making it bad because they don't want it / comply to it. They have to listen in order to fix something. Something needs to change.
iDarkWind (EUW)
: Yeah, but if you remenber the number one reason why autofill was implemented was also because of high elo games. The queue times would be very large, sometimes up to 30 minutes for a challenger game. Obviously that the ranked experience overall was far better, but the time it took to find one match was also a pain in the ass to deal with. But I am on your side on removing the autofill too.
Absolutely, however the thing about higher elo's is we dodge every single game that we think is not winnable. Turning 10 minutes queue into 30 minutes anyway... That's what I mean when I say we might as well remove it... so less dodge ? Because I feel removing dodges in this current system is suicide and no one will play high elo anymore, from what I can see.
: I hard agree, I say D3+ should have it since D4 is full of boosted players and its population is high enough. But back to the main point, I'm certain most high elo players would agree to wait an extra 5-10 minutes to have a quality game rather than having a teammate auto filled into their worst role and just ruin the game. It's not the auto filled players fault, it's more of the system letting them down.
Every single players I asked for, players who are competitive on my D1 Account as well as my D3 Account are heavily in favor of this as at this level, people make time to play and don't just squeeze 1 game a day for fun after work and want quick queue time. They want quality practice/games. From what I've gathered and from the last post I made that was deleted where we had 32 votes for removal and 5 votes against, the picture is starting to be pretty clear. I do agree for the Diamond 4 Part. However the splitting of the 2 diamond is why I was hesitant to not put d4 with it as I can't see a way to do it unless it's a different rank all together.
Lost R (NA)
: Well, that's what happens when you have too many OTPs.
OTP's is not as much of a concern as much as having a squad of 3 supports and 2 junglers for example, Obviously if you have 3 OTP's on off roles that's a different beast.
Yboat (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Whiisp,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X12pxYhg,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-11-04T23:57:10.767+0000) > > Dodging is necessary in a competitive environment like Diamond+ (D2+) because at this level, I don't want to have 4 support mains play vs on role players as at this rank, it's a guaranteed loss. And that just creates massive frustration within high elo that I personally can't handle anymore. There's a reason why so many people above Masters Create Smurf. Because at this elo, No kidding, you get your role way less often and therefore can't practice, especially mid laners. (That's excluding streamers because they don't want 20 min queue time on stream) > > I've also seen comments on previous post about Adding a 3rd role to choose from. Which IMO is way better than being filled on your 5th role and would reduce queue time if auto fill is removed. So once again it's a player base issue, not an autofill issue. How many lobbies does it take to get into game? Each one after the 1st is 99% becuase of a dodge. Wby not take the step of removing identifying plyers until in game 1st? While it wont stop dodging, it will help. It will also improve mmr as a metric of in game skills, rather then how good you are " stacking thd deck" The other side of that is if you deserve your mmr/ win rate you can do it by not dodging. I know that sounds harsh, but it's true. Same with otp that have a 60% + win rate on thier otp, but drasticly lower on anything else. You could have a 100% win rate over 500 games in lets say mid lane in korean challenger on your otp, but a 0% at the same elo on any one else. That does not mean you make faker look bronze, it means you are not well rounded in lol. You willnot be playing at the pro level, not matter how good of a otp you are.
Ofc it's a player base issue as mentioned in the post as it is a good system on paper for lower ranks. Removing that ability to look up people would make games unfair as the system does not care at higher rank if its 3 support and 2 junglers in a game. This removes game quality aspect that is seeked by higher elo players. Deserving a rank or not at this elo does not matter, people just want to improve and playing vs an auto filled just is not cutting it or having to lose 100% because of auto filled teammates is not cutting it either. There is a reason other than Ping(ms) that pro players/ high elo players do in house. SoloQ quality in north america is not cutting it on a high elo/ pro aspiring level. Yes you can achieve a deserved rank without dodging ofc. But that just requires more games, bad quality games that could be eliminated. Not sure I understand the 1tp point the way you worded it however.
Kyaza (NA)
: removing it in Diamond+ seems like a good idea because at that point getting autofilled to a role you dont play is basically asking for a loss. though i think for the lower ranks it is fine because of how quickly the game can turn around
And the higher the rank the more this applies. A challenger Support main vs a challenger mid lane main is just disgusting skill difference for example.
: First I want to see real penalties for people dodging and at high elos I want to see a crack down on multiple account dodging.
Dodging is too important in a competitive environment where the system flaws need to be fixed by players action... ie dodging. Without dodges, too many games with 4 support mains/filled roles would happen and this is just unplayable and a waste of time at this level. Idk about you in gold, maybe it is a problem in a certain way, I can't tell, and this is why my points are mainly directed at players above the Diamond 2 Range because the game is not the same at all. 4 Support main/filled roles in lower rank is much easier to win than in higher elos.
Yboat (NA)
: A better question is not rather or not it should be removed, but how long are you willing to wait for a game. It would not be hard for rito to run a simluation to see just how long it would add to the que time. The other side of that is now how does time effect the mmr spread. Ie after 5 mins we expand the allowed mmr range by 100 for every min in que. I don't know how lol handles extended que times, but all mmr based que systems do this to some degree. It's also one of the main reasons most games don't show mmr. They are afraid( rightfully so) that pthe player base can figure out the mm system and then abuse it. It's not that hard to do actually, just takes a decent sample size and time. Ranks don't really work that way as rank/=/ mmr. You are correct in that is not autofill that is the issue, but the player bases reaction too it that is. I would recomend cracking down on smurfs and multi account dodgers. I bet removing that would cut que times down by a significant margin. The sad reality is dodging can significantly increase your win rate if you are doing it correctly. It's been tested in many mobas and the ammount you can increase your win rate is shocking. I have seen numbers as high as 30% in win rate increase. One way to help combat dodging is to remove names and account info from draft lobbies and loading screens. That way people can not check on other players and then dodge accordingly. I don't like it, but it has proven successful in other games.
Dodging is necessary in a competitive environment like Diamond+ (D2+) because at this level, I don't want to have 4 support mains play vs on role players as at this rank, it's a guaranteed loss. And that just creates massive frustration within high elo that I personally can't handle anymore. There's a reason why so many people above Masters Create Smurf. Because at this elo, No kidding, you get your role way less often and therefore can't practice, especially mid laners. (That's excluding streamers because they don't want 20 min queue time on stream) I've also seen comments on previous post about Adding a 3rd role to choose from. Which IMO is way better than being filled on your 5th role and would reduce queue time if auto fill is removed.
Whiisp (NA)
: As much as Auto fill is a good concept on paper, it ruins too many games [Diamond 2+ (Diamond+)]
Just to add to the point... We are already waiting a long time for games because people often dodge, are forced to dodge, or we are forced into a 15 minute FF right from champ select because someone refuses to just play the game. This turns them toxic towards your players and increases toxicity overall, when in fact, their hatred should be directed towards the system and not the players being auto filled. Surely I am not the only one who can see all those downsides ? **How heavy must the upsides of it be for it to overpower all of these negative ones ?**
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Whiisp

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