: Riot there's a reason we keep talking shit to you on boards instead of just leaving your game.
The game started going down hill in season 5 for me. The runes changes changed a lot of things and created more problems. Riot Games just has a tendency to over complicate things rather than keep it consistent and expand upon it. Also, the decision to blatantly ignore a specific amount of champions for the same ones every single year, really convinced me that they don't care. I don't think this company cares about the fans or the game anymore. I think these Developers care more about the bottom line and keeping the LCS alive.
Pyrosan (NA)
: You'll be happy to know she's getting nerfed next patch :D! https://twitter.com/MarkYetter/status/1153736067658309632
Yeah, I know. That's why I'm creating the thread. Thanks though.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: They dont care cuz we were mean to them :( And Rioters are offended :(
They deserve it. When you create skins for the same champions within a 6 month timeline, there is a problem. When you prioritize VGU, reworks, and conversations about the same champions every single time, that is a problem. When you prioritize new champions over your existing pool and making them look and feel better, that is a problem. These Developers were told all of this and now they want to act as if they are being bullied. You are in charge of and work for a billion dollar company who can afford to hire more help and get things done. Instead, you decide to pull all of your resources together for the same type of content and champions that are worked and and released every year. It should be a wakeup call for these Developers and it has been for the past few years. Now, the Developers think of it as a trend.
Rioter Comments
: @Reav3 Current VGU List?
He said one isn't coming for a very long time. The next updates will be about Voli and Fiddles.
Rioter Comments
Hadriel (NA)
: Saying Karma has a lack of gameplay identity "other than sitting back and shielding or hoping a mantra Q lands" is like saying Janna is the same because she sits back shielding and hopes a tornado catches someone, or that Orianna just sits back and throws her ball around. If this accurately describes what you do on Karma, you're playing Karma wrong. There is a crowd dedicated to flooding these posts with Karma displeasure. There are some things to Karma that need work, but this crisis narrative that's continually pushed here doesn't exist. Karma is a generalist, supportive mage and there is absolutely a place for that type of champion in League. She doesn't lack an identity because she's a jack of all trades, that's her identity, and it still manifests in a powerful champion healthily played in both support and mid. Her abilities aren't generic because shields and slows and tethers exist on other champions, and her kit isn't replaceable because Locket or Shurelya's exist. This obsession with uniqueness is what's been harming the game for the last couple of years, Karma isn't any less engaging because her abilities are plays on classic combat elements. Karma still provides distinctive talents such as her brand of lane dominance, her value as an team-wide enabler and versatility. Stop trying to undersell Karma to get attention. And frankly, Karma has been reworked for three times the amount of time she existed as prerework Karma: it's time to let it go. As someone who played both 2011-2013 Karma and 2013-2019 Karma, yes, there are some iconic elements to old Karma that were lost and as reworks go, hers wasn't wholly respectful of the expectations of her playerbase, but the product was still a powerful, visually stunning, engaging and interesting champion with weaknesses and strengths, with a fair share of time in the spotlight and away from it that has held well throughout the years through basic balance and modernization efforts. Whatever work she needs, it is not VGU level and pretending otherwise is making it harder and harder to listen.
A generalist champion is not a gameplay identity. I can tell you for a fact that the original attempt at Karma's VGU 6 and a half years ago was to modernize her kit but keep what players liked about it. That did not happen. Karma's identity as a battlemage with interactive abilities on allies, was not kept in tact. Quite frankly, Karma was played more in the top and midlane than she ever was in the botlane. Let's go through some pointers with you becuase you seem to think there isn't a problem here. - Karma's VGU was passed on to a Developer who had no working history of doing VGU and even played Karma. The intent behind his work on Karma was to take power away from casting Mantra together and allow Mantra to shine on their own in specific instances. This work took away the entire reason to play this champion and how her Mantra functioned, because the way it functions now already exists on a certain Yordle. - The art was rushed and replaced with incomplete art assets because of fan displeasure of what they were doing. Instead of taking their time and actually listening to the community 6 years ago, we have a poorly executed VGU that has yet to be completed and everyone knows it. - Riot Game Developers removed Shield Bomb, her fans, her dress, her clothesline mechanic, her passive, her Mantra Q healing, and the ability to cast multiple Mantra at a time for one damage move that is blocked by everything, a boring tether that is abused in top lane, and a mass AOE shield that was never liked since day 1 and already exists on two item actives and through out champion kits. Actually, the ability is the only thing that people used to say that was iconic on Karma but it was removed and put on a new champion. - Karma's VGU had to be numbers buffed into oblivion to make it function and it's still a mess. You do know everything on her has been buffed and nerfed more than twice, right? Stop kidding yourself and stop trying to say we are, "underselling" her VGU. It was never a VGU to begin with. You do realize the same things that were being worked on in her GU earlier this year are the same things I am mentioning?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 12
What are Developers doing about player concerns in regards to Developers, like you honestly, who are catering to the same subset of champions and now new champions? Here you are talking about Irelia again and her problems, but ignoring the vast majority of comments about other people's champions. You talked about Akali last week and the week before that Ryze and Lux. You and so many other Developers really need to be held accountable for your bias choices and work ethic. This game has over 140+ champions in it and it seems like Developers like you and other ones only care about popular champions, new champions and recent VGU ones. {{champion:43}} It's been close to 6 and a half years now and there are still major problems with her kit, gameplay identity and incomplete art assets. Karma was actually to receive a GU earlier this year but Developers, like you, refused to address the problems and it was cancelled because of player backlash. Just like the excuses you used in previous years, time and the fact that there is a huge division in the Karma community is the reason why Developers like you cannot stand the champion or the community. You waited way too long to address her problems and now the community is conflicted within itself on what to do with her. 1) Give her a proper GU that doesn't bottleneck her into one role specifically and finds a way to unify both support and mid players. 2) Address player concerns that her Mantra doesn't offer much skill expression and the fact that the majority of her abilities exist on other champions and item actives. 3) Address player concerns that she is being abused in roles and lanes she shouldn't be in, like top lane Karma. 4) Address her incomplete art assets, lack of a shield casting animation, rushed and incomplete VO, and in-game models that don't match the splast arts. 5) Her lack of a gameplay identity other than sitting in the back and shielding or hoping a Mantra Q lands and deals damage. I know I'm going to be down-voted and harassed. I know players are not going to agree with me when they have their own favorites. I just want people to really understand something. Try being part of a champion community where your concerns, questions, feedback, passion and creativity is ignored from the very beginning of a VGU to the very end of the VGU to present day. Try watching a Developer with no knowledge of champion design, art and someone who doesn't even play the champion be in charge of a VGU that gave her half arsed content and an over the place kit and gameplay identity. Really think about all of the players who voiced their concerns and opinions about their champion and it goes largely ignored for 6 years, where the vocal majority that hated the problems with her left the game because they were unsatisfied. Fast forward to present day where Karma has back and fourth buffs and nerfs, a cancelled GU, a Development team that has commented on her problems and admitted that she needs a lot of work, and a divided community of mains that are all at each other because a Development team refuses to do their jobs and focus on another Ryze VGU or rework. Riot, when it comes to Karma you can care less. When it comes to new champions and popular ones you prioritize all types of work on them. It's been 6 years and there has been almost zero communication, work, and an actual care by you. What are you doing?
: Nothing feels worse than loving a champion who isn't on Riot's favorite list
Try being part of a champion community where all of their concerns, questions, ideas, and creativity is ignored for more than 6 years. When a Developer does bad work on a champion or largely ignores massive amounts of concerns for MANY years, time passes and the players that don't care about the same things remain the vocal majority and will be catered to. Players get frustrated that they are ignored and their favorite champions are ignored, so they leave the game and say League of Legends is a terrible game. Besides the occasional balance issues, League of Legends is one of the best games I've ever played and a lot of us can agree on that. The problem the game has is there is a lot of ego and no backbone with this Development team. A lot of these Developers say one thing and don't do a single thing. When a Developer finally gets around to doing something, they half arse it and make up an excuse as to why it is the way it is. I honestly don't think a lot of the Developers from Riot Games know what they are doing and how to handle the massive amounts of criticism they receive. Developers go back and fourth on a lot of things and don't actually want to work on the problems, but they always have a handy excuse. I've been playing since season 2 and I've seen it all and I've been through it all with a lot of the Developers. After season 3 and how they treated Karma and the mains, I lost respect for the Developers as a whole. After season 5 I absolutely despise the Development team for actually ruining the game. The game was tolerable and actually fun to play before season 5 (despite my massive hatred with what they did to Karma), but the changes on and after season 5 solidified my idea that Riot Games hired a bunch of Developers who don't care about the community, their integrity as artists and game developers, and only care about the competitive eSports scene and the bottom line. We don't need new champions, the same champions being prioritized for VGU and massive reworks every year, and a back and fourth Development team who have no spine. The game actually needs a Development team that isn't bias in their decisions, actually have empathy towards champions that are mistreated and deserve work, and actual conversations about problems with champions and results. The game should be modernized on an art level for every champion in the game, yet we have a vast majority of champions with outdated art, splash arts and models. The game should have modernized kits with MINOR work being done on older champions, and most don't even need that. Instead, RIot is prioritizing all of their efforts into new champions, reworks on popular and new champions, and more. Nothing is actually getting done and there are a lot of excuses being made for their lack of a work ethic. The Developers don't care. That's the end of it.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=AbiwonKenabi,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1J43KWot,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-07-08T15:53:48.217+0000) > > For some reason Riot doesn't like doing these. Its kind of frustrating that they are so unwilling to ever call a Voice Actor back for anything. They basically only do it for Legendary/Ultimate skins, which is why Lux got her VO; just a good opportunity since she was already there for Elementalist. (I've heard that they did the same for MF, but didn't go through due to poor reception). They randomly had Jinx and Ziggs' VAs back for Odyssey which was a nice surprise (Kayn's VA was already back for the Legendary skin, but that was nice, too). > > I'm just thinking about things like the way Blizzard will quite frequently add lines to Overwatch Heroes whenever a new event rolls around or they get new skins. I don't expect Riot to do things with THAT high of a frequency, but SOMETHING more would be nice. It has nothing to do with "not liking" this idea. We LOVE the idea of updating old champs. Usually, we book talent for 4 hour chunks of studio time (guild minimums). While this sounds like a lot of time with an actor in the booth, it actually goes by suuuper fast, with the first hour or so being time for the director (we have a rotating roster of wonderful VO directors), actor, and writer to hone in on the character and find the voice. Then it's three hours (with breaks) to get the right takes on lines. We end with efforts (non verbals) which typically blow out the actor's voice. WE can usually record a full 150 line script in 4 hours. So to bring an actor back for a skin, doesn't really afford us much time with said actor to record an additional set of lines for base champ VO. We're looking into ways to make this happen, but then we typically run into bandwidth issues internally for folks to select, process, edit, hook up, and test the new lines IN ADDITION to the skin VO. It's one of my personal passions to redo as many old champ VOs as possible, and we're making some head way. But I would hate to promise you fine folks something that may take a long time to deliver bc we're all stretched very thin. Writers have to write a lot of new content for league. VO designers have to iterate and implement new content. Anything old we're updating is additional work we're doing on top of our normal workload. Again, it's one of my personal missions to bring as many old champs up to modern quality bar as possible. It's also super hard to do when some of our talent no longer works in the industry meaning we have to recast. Recasting tends to upset mains and we wind up seeing diminishing returns on the effort. TLDR: It's complicated, but it's a dream we do share with you :)
I don't believe it for a second. Unless it's a popular champion, you Developers don't care. It's nothing more than a bunch of different egos at Riot deciding the same champions get everything. The VO actress for Karma, Danielle, said multiple times she would come back in a heartbeat to do VO work for Karma or come back period. Karma's VGU on the art and VO update side was rushed and never completed. Riot is aware of all of this but somehow the same champions just keep getting the work while others are ignored. There is no excuse for why MF and Varrus still doesn't have VO work when you guys know how many of us want a model update and VO update. Maybe it's time to stop doing VGU and adding new champions and throw in two or three mini VGU like you prioritized on Rye, Ezreal and Morgana. You all know that what actually needs to get done. Where is this work ethic all of you keep saying is passionate and caring? I dont see it.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: 40 mins plus now
Rioter Comments
klavborn (NA)
: "respond quickly when a champion gets out of balance"
I mean, I just had a Miss Fortune auto attack me once with Dark Harvest at level 4 and half health me. These Developers are extremely delusional. The sad thing is they get paid to do this job and they still cannot do it.
: Qiyana not purchasable
Rioter Comments
: Oh boy, people are still talking about Nubrac? Did no one see the Riot response?
I don't like NB3 either but he's just a horrible streamer and LoL player I don't have to watch. This Nubrac guy had history of doing this and was toxic, He needed a ban. Stop supporting him and move on.
Jenivie (NA)
: riot hates karma xd they should give her an ezreal-level vgu. she looked so beautiful in the awaken cinematic, they should make a new character model for her that reflects her in that cinematic. as for her kit idk what they should change, probably her passive because its so unsatisfying. P.S. i would really LOVE a shield animation, like how morgana got an animation for her shield after her rework -.- not sure how karma just magically spawns shields with no motion
I honestly don't think they know what to do with her at this point because they kind of made a mess of things. Their lack of care and prioritizing work on the same champions every single year, means champions like Karma and other ones are constantly put tot he wayside. They probably won't be working on her within the next year or two because they have a boat load of new champions to prioritize art updates and reworks on now.
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 20
So Karma was nerfed again after she was buffed, like the majority of us said she would be. When is it going to be enough with the back and fourth buffs and nerfs? Meddler, you've buffed almost everything in her kit at this point. The dedicated mains who have been playing Karma for years now are asking for a gameplay update. The new Karma mains will whine that she gets changed. The top lane Karma mains will whine that she gets changed. The old Karma mains will whine that she doesn't get changed. At some point Meddler you guys are going to have to stop giving Aatrox and Ryze their annual reworks and work on Karma. You cancelled a planned rework for her a couple months ago and there is, yet again, zero communication about her. Are Riot Game Developers going to actually do something about this champion soon? The last two times you've officially worked on Karma was buffing her and then nerfing her immediately. You've done this two times now, openly acknowledged problems with Karma's kit and expressed it, but you only want to numbers buff/nerf her because she has a new skin out. Karma needs your attention and not cancelled reworks. Karma doesn't need these back and fourth buffs and nerfs. Karma needs her actual problems looked at. What is going on Meddler?
Jarring (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Winterkill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rqLybWGr,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-06-19T20:36:13.889+0000) > > She's been a problem every single time she is buffed. Riot nerfs her right after. The Developers even acknowledged more than once she has problems. If they know it then why do players like you keep insisting there are no problems? Do you know all of her basic abilities have been buffed and nerfed more than 6 times each? All of her Mantra abilities (which is actually her main problem) have been buffed and nerfed constantly? The Developers know all of this. They don't want to work on her problems but bring to light other ones. Let's not even talk about her art problems that were never completed. This is the first time she's ever been buffed to the point of becoming one of the best champions in the game. Discounting legacy karma, all the major changes to her thus far up until the most recent buff have been nerfs. The most recent of which, was the duration of her shield, and further back was the damage on her shield. There have been very minor buffs to her over the course of her life on LoL, but none of them posed a problem for anyone, much less Riot. Riot: gives huge nerfs to Karma Riot: gives huge nerfs to Karma Riot: gives minor buff to Karma Riot: gives minor buff to Karma Riot: gives minor nerf to Karma Riot: gives minor nerf to Karma Riot: gives minor buff to Karma Riot: gives minor nerf to Karma Riot: gives huge buff to Karma You: Riot buffs and nerfs her right after because they acknowledge she poses a problem. Actuality: Riot gives minor buffs and nerfs to all the champions consistently to keep the game balanced, and actually has nothing to do with the champions kit being broken. Just because certain champion kits in the game are overloaded and are hard to balance, doesn't mean one champion kit is overloaded as soon as they get sent to the top of the winrate ladder after a huge buff. She doesn't even have any fucking dashes bruh. The hardest champions to balance in this game all have multiple dashes so that they can easily dodge skill shots as well as land their own. Stuff like Akali, Irelia, Azir.
Mantra E mega buff that catapulted her into the meta and was the only reason she got a conquer skin? Mantra W three tick that was nerfed? Do you play the game?
: Riot forcing us to add yet another champion to the impossible amount we have to ban (Karma)
I mean Karma players have been asking for a rework for 6 years now. Karma deserves a Mini-VGU like Ezreal and Morgana. Riot is only interested in cancelling reworks, removing abilities, and numbers buffing then nerfing Karma right after.
: > [{quoted}](name=BirdMan tm,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=98mJ4vNn,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-06-19T19:27:54.832+0000) > > its hilarious how out of touch the comments are with the rioter response. not to bag on these guys either--it's understandably difficult to step past **conspiracy bias** It is really difficult. That's partly why I wanted to comment, but I don't blame people for thinking that, nor would I be shocked if many folks don't believe me. It's a really easy conclusion to make. - Company wants to make money - Company buffs some champions - People see overlap on some champions getting buffed with skin releases Therefor... --> Champion gets buffed to make money. This is an even easier conclusion to jump to because video game monetization and marketing across the industry as a whole does have a ton of issues & scummy tactics and imo continues to get worse overall. Visibility on these issues continues to rise and consumer trust has taken notice and dropped so it's easy to jump to conclusions.
> [{quoted}](name=FeralPony,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=98mJ4vNn,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-06-19T20:17:03.666+0000) > > It is really difficult. That's partly why I wanted to comment, but I don't blame people for thinking that, nor would I be shocked if many folks don't believe me. It's a really easy conclusion to make. > - Company wants to make money > - Company buffs some champions > - People see overlap on some champions getting buffed with skin releases > Therefor... --> Champion gets buffed to make money. > > This is an even easier conclusion to jump to because video game monetization and marketing across the industry as a whole does have a ton of issues & scummy tactics and imo continues to get worse overall. Visibility on these issues continues to rise and consumer trust has taken notice and dropped so it's easy to jump to conclusions. I mean I don't believe it for a second. You give the same champions skins every year and you ignore others. Players said for years they wanted Dark Star Xerath but you give us Dark Star Karma when we asked for Star Guardian for almost 3 years now. Great, Karma got a dark themed skin but there is always next year right? Always making one champion wait for the skins they actually want on a champ but giving those high dollar and better skins for Lux, Ezreal, Riven, and new champions. The community just doesn't care anymore because you have never cared. We still technically don't have a Taliyah skin. Where is that? Don't lie. If Developers actually cared about Karma they would be giving her the mini VGU she deserved for 6 years now. Instead Riot Games buffed her and then nerfed her right after. Notice a trend? Buff a champion when a skin comes out. So try to convince me you guys actually care. You don't. If you did you would be actually listening to the Taliyah and Xertah mains still waiting for a skin.
Jarring (NA)
: the slow % on her q was increased. her movespeed duration on her e was increased. now all of a sudden, this made her "a problem in top lane". I'm guessing it's mostly because of a few people and guides in particular that recommend playing her or people otherwise complaining about her. Her damage wasn't increased at all. she was simply given more ability to kite. She was always a viable pick at top lane, and I'm sure there would be just as many complaints about her if the same number of people played tank karma top. Just losing lane to karma gives reason for people to gripe. Since more people play her now, more people will have their own chances to lose to her. Thus, more complaints, and here we are. All you're doing is whining that you lost a game because of a Karma. So what. Nothing you've said actually matters. It's all completely BIASED. Not even gonna get into the huge number of ways to counter her. All it comes down to is that you think her ultimate is BS, particularly in regards to her W. It's not even that big of a deal early game(which is where most people are having problems). Later on when her passive gets stronger and she gets cdr, she can use her ultimate on W every time it comes off cooldown cuz it procs her passive(which reduces her mantra c/d) both on the initial cast and on the proc of the root. If anything, they could remove the first passive proc on W, but it still wouldn't change much in the long run. I mean, at level 13, she reduces the cooldown of her ultimate by 10 seconds already directly after casting it on the root and AAing just once. every other AA and Q reduces it even further. I personally like where she's at. I don't really care about the buffs much. I mean they're nice, but I don't care. And I played much more Tank Karma than a standard AP Karma build. But I also mainly only played her when dominion was still around. I played a lot of dominion in the past, and I primarily played Tank Karma 99% of games. I remember going on 10-13+ winstreaks with her daily in that game mode. I didn't really get a lot of kills most of the time, but I was the win condition every time. I was mainly an unkillable distraction for over half the enemy team, while my team inevitably pushed the rest of the map with their numbers advantage. Only times I'd lose was when the enemy team got smart and only pushed where I wasn't...much like the overpowered enemy servers in Arathi Basin on WoW. Buff didn't break her. People are only complaining because more people are playing her. Tank karma is and should always be viable.
She's been a problem every single time she is buffed. Riot nerfs her right after. The Developers even acknowledged more than once she has problems. If they know it then why do players like you keep insisting there are no problems? Do you know all of her basic abilities have been buffed and nerfed more than 6 times each? All of her Mantra abilities (which is actually her main problem) have been buffed and nerfed constantly? The Developers know all of this. They don't want to work on her problems but bring to light other ones. Let's not even talk about her art problems that were never completed.
im small (EUW)
: Even though I do think her kit fails thematically, I quite like how each of her abilities feel like they're a mish-mash of different ideas. I think right now her biggest gameplay issue is her R+W, a squishy mage character should never be able to regenerate that much health under any circumstance and it's pretty much completely broken Karma top. I think the best thing Karma could use is an Ezreal tier VGU, as only her passive and W need changes. A new VO and lore would also be great for her, as well as better animations and a slightly more polished model.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Makattack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=usyj7IWW,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2019-06-18T21:34:25.259+0000) > > I'm talking about a minor champion update similar to Ezreals. It was already planned but then was scrapped because of of...well incompetence. Damn.
Sukishoo (NA)
: Sorry but what makes you think she's anymore important over their other priorities?? For that matter, what makes any of the threads out there going "nerf xxx, buff xxx, rework/revert xxx" any more or less important than each other? Though Ive never been a Karma main, I've loved Karma as I do have a mastery 7 on her, but I've never found anything wrong with her kit. The one GU they had started to plan on her was an interesting idea, but failed to pan out and thus they will only do balance changes until they have something better.
Wow 4 Aartox reworks, another yearly Ryze VGU/rework, or a prioritized VGU for Ezreal. You know, you're right! Let's ignore Karma indefinitely so the Aatrox and Ryze mains can whine every year and get what they want.
: If those are her problems, I am now more convinced than ever that she's in a fantastic spot in terms of overall design.
Until you play against her with a numbers buff and realize she is not fun to play against. I don't know what constructive feedback you want to offer, but why make a comment if you don't actually have a comment?
: A lot of these are extremely nit-picky, and the tell-tale sign of someone still butthurt by her VGU. It's time to get over it. You may personally not like Karma, but that does not mean she's not fun or some kind of problem to the game. I personally like her, and I like her simplicity. Not every champion needs to have page tabs on their tool tips to be fun.
It's actually not not-picky at all. Even Rioters say that there are massive problems with the champion. The refusal to tackle problems with her kit and art is the problem. Flat out, the VGU didn't improve the champion at all. It's 6 years later and Karma sits at a very low play and winrate when something in her kit is not buffed. If a champion has to be buffed to astronomical values and there kit numbers buffed as much as her's has been the past 6 years, there is actual problems with the champion. I've been playing the champion since season 2 and I can tell you that I don't like playing a champion that has notable problems. There are ways to make the current kit work that makes her better, so players like you can stop commenting on threads without actual constructive feedback. Every champion should feel satisfying and unique to play, and if not, why have them in the game then? If you don't like the champion and don't see the problems, then why make a comment about her then? Riot says there are problems with Karma, but players like you are the real reason why this champion is constantly buffed and then nerfed right after. How about tackling the problems like: all of her damage being funneled into Mantra Q, the fact that her Mantra W is being abused for the heal, the fact that her Mantra E doesn't have much skill expression and exists on two item actives and other champion kits. Add in the fact that she has no unique gameplay identity and her art problems, you try to convince me why this champion isn't a problem then. The floor is all your, Oleandervine.
Rioter Comments
: Karma mains asked for a gameplay update. We did not ask for number buffs.
You are exactly right. It's been six years Karma mains have been asking for a GU and it has been ignored. Now, because of Developers refusal to address her problems there are 3 different Karma communities fighting with one another. Not only that, it's been 6 years that her incomplete art assets have been ignored as well. At the end of the day Riot will only acknowledge this champion for a buff and then nerf, when it's in correspondence with a skin. They didn't buff her recently to make her better. Riot buffed Karma because she got a skin. Ryze has received a rework every year expect 2018. Riot prioirtized a VGU on Ezreal over problems with Karma. Riot prioritizes massive reworks on champions with communities that are much more vocal, nasty and more people.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14
The changes to Karma are nothing more than another excuse for Developers to ignore her problems for another year. You are aware of the problems with Karma's kit, gameplay identity, bland gameplay and problems with some mantra. These changes just make Karma even more annoying to play against, because numbers buffing a problem champion is not fixing their problms. You are just makjng them more annoying to play against. I don't understand why half of the rework for her was cancelled. You can literally put that rework on the PBE at this point because the Karma community is just done with the back and fourth buffs and nerfs. You will nerf something on here in a few weeks because of the buffs and you only looked at her for a ridiculous buft because of a skin. Do you care?
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 7
{{champion:43}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:43}} https://imgur.com/Bqgn3pg I don't understand why this champion is getting another numbers buff when the slow on her Q was already buffed, the damage was already buffed, and the splash damage was changed. I don't understand why Karma is having the speed duration of her E touched when Developers nerfed the duration of shields along with the speed duration, because it was deemed a problem. Why are Karma's basic abilities being buffed and touched (again) when Riot Game Developers know the lack of a passive, her skill expression with Mantra, lack of gameplay identity and boring/bland/not-unique kit is the main problem. - Karma could use an actual passive. Karma has a basic skillshot that is blocked by minions and is her only damage move with a lackluster explosion damage. Karma has a simple tether that already exists on several champions and is abused in another role. Karma's Mantra E is literally two item actives and a Sivr ULT, but Riot game Developers refuse to even adjust the way she uses Mantra E. - Tank Karma is a massive problem. No one likes playing against tank Karma with the abuse Mantra W heal that should be based off more so AP and then missing health. - The kit itself is not cohesive, offers anything new to the game, and it doesn't excite the community. You guys even acknowledge the problems yourselves and, yet again, are only giving her a QOL improvement that is not really fixing her problems. https://imgur.com/sPjiZY5 https://imgur.com/pTJFK8v -------------------- These changes below, at the very least minus the ally mechanic, changed the way some of her abilities worked. This was a better attempt at making her somewhat unique and tackling a few problems . . . . as opposed to numbers buffing a kit that hasn't been working and you've nerfed more than you've worked on. You buff something on this champion, Meddler, and then it is nerfed because it's not solving her problems. Work on the kit Meddler and stop putting it off. https://imgur.com/nat5leH
Rioter Comments
Vanëssa (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Winterkill,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=OmidkEbm,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-06T21:00:11.430+0000) > > They said they wanted new champions, but the community doesn't want new champions. Riot Game Developers are adding new champions because their profits took a massive hit last year. They don't care about the problems with the game, the fact that older champions look and feel outdated, and the fact that there are too many champions . . . . . they only want your money. Don't support them. They literally chose to rework 2 champions after they made you choose only 1 from about 4. And you say they dont care some champs look and feel outdated?
> [{quoted}](name=Vanëssa,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=OmidkEbm,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-06-06T21:02:45.848+0000) > > They literally chose to rework 2 champions after they made you choose only 1 from about 4. And you say they dont care some champs look and feel outdated? VGU. What about the champions that need minor VGU like MF, Varrus, the Yordles . . . . and more? NEW CHAMPIONS?!
: That's such a loaded question. We obviously like GOOD new mechanics just as much as we like QoL changes. It's just that so often new mechanics end up being poorly thought out and poorly executed.
Yep because they change the champion's entire playstyle. There are champions that benefit from a QOL just as much as there are champions that could benefit from having at least a new mechanic or ability in their kit. In the past Developers put new mechanics on champions where it didn't belong. There are also champions that needed new mechanics and benefited from it . . . because they needed it. Ezreal and Lissandra are perfect examples of this. There are champions that are an exception to this rule, but to say . . . . . every champions is getting a QOL change over a new mechanic . . . when they know there are champions with these problems . . . . is absurd.
: Riot's New Champ is Proof They Don't Care
They said they wanted new champions, but the community doesn't want new champions. Riot Game Developers are adding new champions because their profits took a massive hit last year. They don't care about the problems with the game, the fact that older champions look and feel outdated, and the fact that there are too many champions . . . . . they only want your money. Don't support them.
Rioter Comments
: Hey Winterkill, good job on the formatting and clarity of this post. You're absolutely right to reference NC's comments in regards to Karma's issues. These buffs are likely to result in future nerfs because her kit has fundamental issues that need to be resolved. The problem with NC's rework (aside from lack of resources) was that it focused only on the unique mechanic, and failed to deliver on the rest of the kit. I don't believe her changes would've been satisfactory even if we did remove the misplaced W mechanic; RQ would've become even more frustrating to play against, and RE would've become a "diet" version of what we currently have on live.
Yeah. You are very right. It's a shame. She'll be the never ending champion of League to get numbers buffs and then nerfed right after. The slow increase on Q is going to annoy people who play against tank Karma and the E speed increase is going to infuriate players at the end of the day.
Rioter Comments
Saezio (EUNE)
: I liked season 1-2 karma better. Even if she was used even less than now back then. What made her unique? SHIELDBOMBARDMENT What she did better than other champions? Frustrate top laners What makes her unique? Pick conqueror Karma with Aery and give red aery shield :D
: My only issue with karma is that her mantra q is actually not dodgeable without mobility or t2 boots.
And that's partly because they front-load the initial hit with tons of damage, the range is too long, and they buffed it into oblivion to compensate for the fact that nothing else in her kit actually does damage or is good.
: Ok first off all. Ego or not ego. You said this iur self. The down votes. It looks like yor ego is so big that you think people down vote you because they dont want to hear it or something. And not because your wrong (talking about ego) 1 her ult 2 mass 5 player shield with our a skill shot 3 her ult
1) A much poorer version of Heimerdinge's Ult. 2) Item Locket of Solari active, Sivr Ult, and Shurelya active. 3) Not that amazing since I just answered it in number 1 for ya. The Mantra offer really no skill expression that is unique to Karma or the game.
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Winterkill

Level 120 (NA)
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