Seen (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O6gqBU84,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-03-12T22:42:14.907+0000) > > Different elo´s, Jax is outright busted in plati and downwards, and some people are saying that Kled might be a sleeper as well, meanwhile Diamond feels that vlad is the scourge of the century. I disagree, vlad is disgusting in silver as well. Hes on my current patch permanently ban list. I'd rather deal with max than vlad
i started playing vlad top in ranked with no prior experience on him every time i picked top first and had a 60% winrate on him my first 15 and i keep that above 50 hardly even trying. vlad is stupidly strong. This was ~plat mmr btw but my account was mid gold
: @Riot SapMagic, don't give in to peer pressure, keep positional ranks!
the system was well and truly bugged. I was playing vs a d2 botlane in my gold promos on my secondary role. that shouldnt really be happening.
Rioter Comments
: {{champion:23}} Press R no matter what, dont die for 5 seconds. Cant be prevented from pressing R.
> [{quoted}](name=ChrisBrownze,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=pEHEBPeu,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-03-05T06:02:33.867+0000) > > {{champion:23}} Press R no matter what, dont die for 5 seconds. Cant be prevented from pressing R. Did the 46% winrate champion hurt you?
: Thoughts about how PD change will effect Yasuo?
They won't be as bad for him as they will for Trynd. The changes will not hurt his teamfight much if it all but they will really hurt his split push quite badly. If you're not ahead enough on him to teamfight he will be substantially weaker due to lower AS and loss of dueling stats. Trynd is honestly gutted by these changes. Very disappointing to gut a champ that already has a 47.5% WR
: @**Meddler **What about Vlad? My issue is that after E changes(big nerf) his pool cooldown is still huge compared to fizz troll pole. Fizz is 16-10 and Vlad is 28-16 that's almost double and vlad can't go over walls with it or cancel things like fiddle drain. I get that his empowered Q is strong but if you think of it compared to ezreal where Ez is poking you for nearly 1000 AD and slowing you with on-hit it just seems like vlad is kind of lackluster. ALSO: his Q has a **major bug** that's been prevalent for quite a while, if you Q something like a minion that dies right after it's dead your Q goes on cooldown even if you don't get the kill.
vlad also half healths entire teams with R E, has his w and zonyas to work with. Coming from someone that plays him a decent amount Vlad is in a perfectly good spot.
jadelink (OCE)
: I get the PD changes, they make it into an item suited to classic adcs, and less to trynd and Yasuo. I just dont get why spear of shojin is ever going to be touched by an adc unless it's so strong that it makes every skirmisher in the game a must pick/ban and drives adcs out of existence. ADCs seldom benefit from CDR as much as skirmishers and bruisers do (and they're already plenty strong).
Right.... lets just gut trynd and nerf yas substantially because adcs dont use an item. That makes sense. Don't simply make a new item that they will prefer when we can gut melee crit users. That would be silly.
Meddler (NA)
: At this point after a lot of testing, yeah, we don't think Shojin's niche was working well enough. Too overlapped with a ranged of other AD+defense (HP or other) items and not particularly bound to light fighters either. Might revisit the space sometime, but no immediate plans, hence repurposing the name and icon for this work instead.
Do you think the current ER passive is really a healthy thing to have in the game? It is incredibly strong on a fairly limited range of champions but it makes those champions very very not fun to play against. May I direct your attention to {{champion:114}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:92}}
Roigaar (EUW)
: I feel like Riot absolutely refuses to listen to the community on the subject of PD. Why ask for feedback if you're going to ignore the overwhelming majority of people who expressed displeasure in seeing PD used as a placeholder for Lifeline? PD has limited users because you created a system that rewards you for combining Shiv and RFC — energized. You created a system that has one option be the mathematical optimal choice, then move to change an item with a great concept and great satisfaction because it's "not built enough". Never mind that there's no reason why Lifeline can't inhabit a new item, since there is no actual motivation to change PD. Melee ADCs have PD in their core. Duelist/short range ADCs do as well. And instead of fostering an item system that doesn't make decisions for you before you even hit the game, such as the Energized mechanic that predetermines your builds and has had negative repercussions on the balance of every part involved in this system—Shiv, RFC, **Fleet Footwork**—you repurpose an item for your convenience against our wishes. I just don't understand. I hate that argument. Why don't we talk about the fact that Runaan's Hurricane has an even lower buy rate than PD? How is the argument for changing PD that it lacks core users without asking ourselves why that is so? Both Zeal alternatives are less commonly bought by marksmen *because you made a system that makes it so*. Not just that, but you're planing to double-down on it by adding yet another Energized synergy item to the system. The rest of the Zeals can't compete in an ADC's inventory because the synergy is simply **objectively superior** if you want to deal damage. You need to have an extremely compelling reason to buy another type of item in its stead, like Jinx's overlapping AoE instances that both make for the mathematically superior damage choice and just as good a waveclear tool than Shiv. The current changelist is just *flawed*. The rationale is *flawed*. It's incredibly frustrating to have a pantomime of a communication channel only to get stonewalled when we cast reasonable doubts on the decisions you're making. It's pure arrogance.
I agree. The change to phantom dancer is a really bad move. I'm not opposed to having a "defensive" zeal item, but this guts Trynd and hurts Yas a lot. I can only conclude that Riot simply doesn't care about those champions or the people that play them enough to go through the arduous task of coming up with a name, creating an image, and adding an item that accomplishes their goal of making a defensive zeal item. This will probably spell the end of my playing trynd until a new item is added or phantom dancer gets reverted. First, shiv was rendered useless on trynd in 8.6. That's okay. Tiamat was still an option for a waveclear item and even though it became the ONLY option, we were still content. Then his core item was simply made crap on trynd in 8.11. That was essence reaver. Then, he got a compensation buff. AP tryn got too strong and rather than nerfing his AP ratio on his e and making his mid game weaker, they just reverted the e buff. The build got more expensive and didn't synergize as well with Trynd's kit but you know what? Didn't complain. Trynd still had a build that was okay. Now tiamat got nerfed too. STILL DIDN'T COMPLAIN. But now the only good rush item is getting completely gutted too. PD is the only zeal item Trynd can build and feel good. This change guts it completely. It loses 15% AS, dueling stats, and its passive will do just about nothing other than baiting us into ulting too early or not ulting at all. Very few ranged ADCs build PD but it IS CORE on trynd and yas. Is it really that hard to create a new item? I'm not flaming I really am curious what the reasoning is here. I expect the response I'll get is: Just build Shiv. You already " pivot between Shiv and PD" so just go back to shiv. Shiv has always been a worse item IMO. the attack speed is less, the dueling stats are inferior, and tiamat is a better waveclear item. Having two waveclear items is redundant and inefficient. Anyone have a justification or explanation or is Trynd and the people that main him just going to be ignored again?
Infernape (EUW)
: Jax is a champion that is item reliant but is also statistically speaking, a powerhouse early. Jax doesn't fall off late, he continues to scale. That is what Dr Dog is talking about. Jax's win rate generally increases the longer a game goes on for. He either has late game scaling but a weak early game, or he has a strong early game and a weak late game. He cannot have both. It doesn't help that Conqueror exacerbates his problems.
Jax is meant to be among the strongest scaling melee champions. Conqueror suits that. It doesn't really do much early but its scaling is nutty. His dueling is a bit too strong imo (i'm a trynd main and i think Jax shouldn't have both stronger split push and teamfight in the late game) and that can be targetted by nerfing his e cd. Essence reaver is 100% broken on him and the passive on that item should be removed because it is bad for the game. With trinity force components and tiamat, he is a bit too strong too early. When he hits two items, jax becomes straight broken. Either remove essence reaver or nerf Jax across the board. IMO: Jax should go even with or come out slightly ahead of Tryndamere in lane, but should lose to most mid game fighters (Camille, Aatrox, etc.) He should lose pretty hard to lane bullies like darius, renekton, and illaoi. When he plays against tanks like Sion and Ornn, they should have to land abilities to beat him. (autoing you to death with grasp procs on sion if you miss q is stupid)
: About the Jax nerds on pbe
Uhhh no, the problem with Jax is not his base stats or conqueror. the problem with Jax is essence reaver and his e cd. Having an urf item in the game breaks champions like Jax, riven, and renekton. Remove essence reaver, increase e cd late, Jax will still find a way to hit 40% cdr pretty easily (deaths dance spirit visage is my favorite) and jax and riven will become less broken
PhRoXz0n (NA)
: Crit Item Explorations Part 2
So, me and my fellow trynd mains are 100% screwed. We lose 15% attack speed, 5% crit chance, and, if you take the passive into account, 5% movespeed off the only zeal item that is usable now. So phantom dancer is crap, shiv is crap ever since the nerf to its waveclear (and phantom dancer was always the stronger item let's be honest). Essence Reaver is.... ok, but we lost 10% cdr and 10 AD so it's still not great. I edge is nerfed too. Can you folks at riot please for a moment remember that not just Marksmen use crit items. Also, why in the name of god are we keeping the "press r and your abilities have no cooldowns" item passive in the game? It's useless on most and completely broken on some. Can anyone honest to god tell me that fighting a two item Jax (trinity and essence reaver) is fun? Even hashinshin, HASHINSHIN, has admitted that the item is broken on Jax. Remove that piece of garbage from the game please. TL;DR Please leave phantom dancer the way it is, or at least create an item that is identical to its current form. Make the item melee only if you must or just create a new zeal item that satisfies your desire to create a defensive zeal item. Please Riot remember that people play melee crit users, not just crit marksmen For the love of god, remove the "Press R and have 0 cooldowns" item passive from the game.
: I love playing malphite into tryndamere. Way more engaging experience lol. If I dont go Ap I die in 3 seconds. If I go Ap i die in 2.
learn to press e. he won't win an all in until he has bork and IE. Trynd should pretty much never beat malphite early.
: Conqueror is ruining the game
Oh yes it was so much fun to have sion auto attack me to death when i dodge his q because he built ninja tabi bramble vest. Oh yes i enjoyed that so much. So much fun to have my all in landing every ability be nullified by maokai Q auto with grasp.
: First S on champ but no hextech chest? (All requirements met)
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Cinth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Zi7LIua0,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-19T21:03:17.431+0000) > > I can see where you're coming from, they did this to {{item:3026}}, where it gives you 50% of your base health back upon revival, not max HP. > > Maybe a change would be 20% of your base health, instead of max health. Sure. As a bruisery-tank main i think we either get nuked by like 3+ ppl or never die, shifting power from squishy 1shots (less impossible peeling required from me) to actually having to think before i go in on a skirmish is an acceptable trade and would probably shift the meta for the better I do think the slightly lesser amount of maxhp damage would be better for the meta personally, but I’d take the basehp change in a heartbeat over the flat and uninterative current version
what about making it more like challenging smite? basically you do more damage to and take less damage from one target for a period of time. that would make it less of a point and click nuke and better for duelists. i dont really think assassins need the extra nuke on squishies but that would make it more usable for fighters.
: > [{quoted}](name=WolfAchilles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BAukAQT7,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2018-10-17T20:10:00.209+0000) > > 1. oneshot most solo laners at level 3.... fuck you Only the ones who gp squishy and refuse to respect the jayce lane enough to... cpunterbuild in the slightest? I know you're a mage/adc player so you think building non damage boots is a thing for peasants and tanks, meanwhile ill go full tank on any champ if thats what it takes to make.sure im not the idiot > 2. %health damage + tank + movement speed up the ass + gap closer + stun.... fuck you Fair > 3. so you enjoy outdamaging every melee carry early and being able to negate most of their damage at the same time.... fuck you Actually i enjoy the right click styles of teemo so having like 450 movespeed baseline while kiting with fast attacls os fun > 4. Graves is respectable. How tf is grave more respectful > 5. Quinn top? youre a slightly less bullshit teemo Especially since teemo is actually a selfish pick... > 6. ehhh respectable Stress relieving
actually im a top lane carry player. like jax tryn irelia camille. vs jayce start cloth 4 and still get chunked to half even if he misses part of his combo. jayce and teemo make top laners completely reliant on their jungler to be better than the enemy jungler. thats what i don't like. the only avenue to win against you is for you to either int or for my jg to show up more than yours.
: Top {{champion:23}} JG {{champion:11}} Mid {{champion:82}} ADC {{champion:22}} Because I love the championship skin Supp {{champion:412}} Other {{champion:24}}
: {{champion:126}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:104}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:67}} hey
1. oneshot most solo laners at level 3.... fuck you 2. %health damage + tank + movement speed up the ass + gap closer + stun.... fuck you 3. so you enjoy outdamaging every melee carry early and being able to negate most of their damage at the same time.... fuck you 4. Graves is respectable. 5. Quinn top? youre a slightly less bullshit teemo 6. ehhh respectable
: {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:240}} As you may have guessed I fucking hate playing ranged champions
I find this a solidly respectable champ pool. Not the biggest fan of yasuo and sion but still very respectable relative to some of the other folks on this thread.
: if you only could use 6 champions
{{champion:23}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:498}} In that order I made sure to have at least 1 for each role
: Hopes For Season 9?
Perspective of a top laner: I want less burst damage early. Less trading power for champions that will not build damage and just have strong base stats. Why does a top lane tahm kench have a stronger all in than tryndamere? Why does poppy do as much damage as Jax? Why does mundo have such a strong all in once he hits six when he will already hard outscale nearly every top laner. Please rework the following champions: {{champion:31}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:54}} Don't make the following champions stronger and give avenues to actually win against them {{champion:84}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:142}} {{champion:39}} One other thing: things like Nasus W and malphite E are not fun to play against when they get to such a low cooldown that you can be permanently attack speed slowed, ESPECIALLY FOR MELEE CHAMPIONS! Both of those champions can perma slow you and run you down with almost no way to outplay. Nasus is difficult to solo kill and you rely heavily on your jungler paying more attention than the enemy jungler. If the enemy jungler forces you off the wave so you cannot freeze on nasus but if you ever do freeze on him your own jungler doesn't gank when he overextends, the game is extremely difficult and there is nothing fun about playing that game. Remove the following champion from the game: {{champion:17}}
Rioter Comments
: What changes are we talking about for Essense Reaver? With the current hypermobility/free CDR stats across tanks/supports + supports shielding important targets literally the moment the shield effect wears off, the ER as an item has allowed Trynda to stay somewhat relevant in the modern game by allowing us to land some hits. Contrary to the major belief, currently Trynd is one of the hardest champions to play at high elo, while incredibly safe picks such as Sion, Gnar + sleeper op Kled/Akali are reigning in top lane by facerolling on the keyboard. Are you considering a possible return to base 8 sec CD on Trynd's spin (a change that i think is way overdue) if you are removing/nerfing the ER's crit/CDR synergy?
These changes will pretty much end trynd's playability if we don't have a new way to get CDR. Shiv Bork build feels like garbage.
: Marksman changes coming to PBE in the next couple days
A few concerns from a Trynd main: Two of my core items are taking massive hits from this and the items I will have to use to supplement my build are becoming more expensive. I think the same will be true for Master Yi players that prefer the crit build. {{item:3508}} Essence Reaver: If essence reaver loses its crit chance, I need to build a second zeal item AND i lose the CDR that gives me my mobility. The jump from 0 to 30% is massive ESPECIALLY with 20% crit chance because it means I need to land 2-3 auto attacks get get my spin off CD. If I lose that mobility, I cannot stick to a target. I will lose a large portion of my dueling/split-push power. I will lose all of the already very little power I had in teamfights. {{item:3086}} Zeal Items: There are two zeal items a split push champion can use. One is much better than the other. {{item:3046}} Phantom Dancer is not often used by marksmen and is used every game by Tryndamere and Yasuo. Yi often build it too. {{item:3087}}Shiv is hot garbage in comparison. Why? Ranged champions don't need much help with waveclear that {{item:3085}}Hurricane doesnt give. Shiv's waveclear isn't too good now. What is the melee champion's go to waveclear item? {{item:3077}}Tiamat. What does that mean for Tryndamere?: I now have to build Shiv and phantom dancer to achieve my goals of sustained damage. I lose my mobility and become even more vulnerable to crowd control. My build is _more expensive_ and _less effective_ so its **insanely less efficient.** {{item:3031}} Infinity Edge: Trynd, Yi, and Yas are all running conqueror nowadays. That means that all 3 are going to benefit far less from IE than we do now since we already have true damage. We will also have less lifesteal capability so we will be even harder pressed to stay alive while split pushing. New Rune and StormRazor: I don't think anyone is going to enjoy playing against Rengar anymore. No one will enjoy playing against Kha Zix. If i build the new item and use the new rune on trynd, I E-Flash-Auto an ADC from fog of war and they die. I cant be peeled off them, I can't be CCed before my auto goes off. I hit that auto and BOOM! YOU'RE DEAD! There is nothing they can do other than ward better. I don't think people will enjoy playing against that. The biggest problem in how itemization works in this game (in my opinion) is that we are trying to balance the same items for ranged and melee champions. Ranged champions are stronger than melee champions given the same stats. That's not a question. Melee champions need stronger base stats to compensate for that. When we change an item thinking about one group, we can hurt or overbuff the other. Balance Duskblade for Zed and what happens to MF? If you can give melee champions a crit build path, it will allow you to fine tune the balance far more easily for crit Marksmen and crit Skirmishers so that we can have mutliple types of marksman in the meta without wreaking havoc on melee crit users.


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