: Pantheon up for the next VGU
At long last!!! "The story of how one man fought back against the gods", I had a feeling they'd pick back up with Atreus' story, interested to see where they take it however. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Sker,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=QhwXZOcB,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-06T03:09:14.627+0000) > > Fair enough but, did you think they would be so far away from each other? I'm not surprised. Taliyah's lore had hinted at it and that was in 2016, just before I started playing League.
And in Pantheon's short story even before that.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wrathof300,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=a08AAGvu,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-01-29T16:50:28.873+0000) > In actuality, Pantheon is the only Aspect we see overwrite the host's individuality at all. The only other influence we see from the Aspects are Leona's ability to feel the Aspect's rage within her (but it doesn't compel her) and the Aspect of Twilight's restriction of Zoe's powers (which makes sense since the Aspects are the source of they abilities). Pantheon is the only one we've seen the story explicitly acknowledge that his personality is completely gone. However, the writers have claimed before that the other hosts do have some of their personality mixed with their parasite, at differing values. Go look up the background information dropped when Taric was released if you wish to hear them say it themselves. In any case, it's fairly hard to determine just how much is changed since once your personality is altered, how would one even know their personality was altered. All they would sense is a sudden shift in priorities, and maybe if they reflect on past actions they'd find some incongruities in how they handled themselves. Which, woulnd't you know, is what happened at the end of Leona's lore when her entire personality shifts in like 2 sentences. And as another side piece of evidence that the parasites have some handle on their host's personality I submit Zoe. Her mind, her personality, her being seems to have been frozen for 1000 years. People don't work that way, they develop and change gradually over time. It seems pretty obvious to me that something is keeping her acting the way she was back when she first got her powers. Something is stopping her from aging and developing as a person.
{{champion:142}}: "Nobody has to grow up unless they want to. Orrrr maybe they do, I don't though." I'd argue that it is more reasonable that Zoe simply does not wish to grow up, she chooses to remain a 9 year old, this is evident because it is also hinted throughout her VO that she is capable and understanding of her role as Targon's herald, but chooses to play around. The lore of the Aspects heavily emphasizes that it was some destiny or characteristic that lead them to the point in their life where they chose to become an Aspect. Their personalities being altered is counterproductive to this setting, on the other hand if their personalities were amplified so to speak, the qualities that they are chosen for are amplified in their host, this would make more sense. Otherwise, it literally would not matter who they choose to become their vessel. The Aspects would all simply resort to Pantheon's tactics. Leona's revelation is explained to be, due to an her acquiring new knowledge and a greater understanding than she did before. A drastic change in her ideals at this point makes sense since this is the contrast between Leona knowing the truth, vs the Leona that was the paragon of the Solari way, it emphasizes the wrongful teachings of the Solari.
: I'm sitting on 20 gemstones and there is nothing attractive enough to spend them on
The quality of the skins are not a problem, _imo_. I like the direction they've taken by making the gemstone skins mainly Hextech skins, something I thought was going to be the theme when they initially released Hextech Annie. However, the limit of the system in this regard, unless you _really_ like the skin, most gemstone skins may not interest you unless it's one for your main/ favorite champ. Carlos teased a new reward system linked to skins coming later this year, around mid-season, perhaps it will also make use of some of your gemstones, idk.
: They didn't want to rename panth for his lore rework i guess. But after his rework Atreus might be gone, gone since the name is Pantheon not Pantheons host Atreus
The champion's name may not be Pantheon's host, Atreus, however the story we are told is Atreus, the Pantheon. I think the reason for this, is because the story they intend on telling with Pantheon, is Atreus' not the Aspect's, whether or not we will learn of anything about the Aspect is in the air.
: If you go by what Rioters have said outside of the lore it starts to make a bit of sense what they tried to do and where they originally planned for the story to go. When the Pantheon lore dropped and let's just say there was dissent on the boards over the quality and direct of that lore Rioter Jaredan basically tipped his hand and straight said "Atreus's story is not over." However, when discussing Targon lore it has been repeatedly said that the Aspects choose how much of the host's individuality to overwrite. With Taric being stated to be the one with next to no influence of the space parasites on his personality, and Atreus being completely taken over. Leona and Diana somewhere in the middle. So, it's probably more accurate to say that Atreus is now trapped inside his own body, rather than just being dead with his spirit in their version of heaven. This actually follows with a completely different Rioter (Waaarghobo) claims about the afterlife in Runeterra, essentially stating that there is no heaven the souls get reincarnated. As to why Pantheon is following what Atreus wanted to do originally, well, the boy wanted to go to war and kill things. He's possessed by a spirit that is known for going to war and killing things. There's gonna be some overlap there. As to a more meta textual reading as to why the lore focuses on Atreus. Well, probably because the writers didn't even know what the space parasites completely were when they wrote the first round of Targon stories. According to Diana they're some group consciousness collective thing. According to Pantheon and Leona's lore they're some part of the beings the human Targonians worship as gods, which is somehow connected to the stars. According to Sol they're not gods they're this magical species of enslaving upstarts that built a space empire off the back of forcing him to do their dirty work and murder his friends and siblings. It isn't until over a year later with the Darkin rewrite that we get the idea that they're actually all tied to some fundamental function of the human experience. To me this reads like it's just been finalized what they're actually going to be doing with the story. So of course Pantheon's lore couldn't focus on the space parasite itself.
Really well written, I agree with mostly everything here. Perhaps Atreus, being trapped within his own body, him being chosen by the Aspect of War (his goals aligning with the Aspect's) and the writers not knowing where they were ultimately going with story the Aspects and Targon Prime, are connected. If we look at Pantheon's character solely from what is told in the bio, who or what the Aspect is, doesn't matter to Pantheon's character, since the story revolves around Atreus. What we are watching unfold is essentially the consequences of Atreus' own Faustian bargain. While we may in fact learn of the Aspect's background and their goals along the way, those things may not be relevant to Atreus' story. The story they wanted to tell was never about the Aspect of War, it was about Atreus' obsession driving him to make the choice that he did. Perhaps this is why Jaredan had teased that Atreus' story was not over, because it never ended, whereas many of us readers were under the impression that this meant, Atreus' story will be re-continued later on. **** > However, when discussing Targon lore it has been repeatedly said that the Aspects choose how much of the host's individuality to overwrite. With Taric being stated to be the one with next to no influence of the space parasites on his personality, and Atreus being completely taken over. Leona and Diana somewhere in the middle. In actuality, Pantheon is the only Aspect we see overwrite the host's individuality at all. The only other influence we see from the Aspects are Leona's ability to feel the Aspect's rage within her (but it doesn't compel her) and the Aspect of Twilight's restriction of Zoe's powers (which makes sense since the Aspects are the source of they abilities).
GreenLore (EUW)
: Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the whole "Atreus is dead"-thing is actually one big lie. They focused way too much on Atreus in his lore to just throw him out of the window and it wouldn't be the first time that riot gave us false information based on someones elses misconception(the people who see him and instantly "know" that Atreus is dead).
I agree, it may be similar to "Petricite's nullification of magic", there may be something unknown about the Aspect that would suggest that the interpretation "Atreus is dead", isn't fully accurate.
Rioter Comments
: The Essence of War
To be fair, the concept doesn't even have to extend to other mythologies, there are numerous Greek heroes and demi-gods to draw inspiration from, allowing Pantheon to remain mainly Greco-Roman inspired, if that becomes a concern.
: That gives me an idea as well. If the host really doesn't matter and Pantheon (The Aspect) just takes a bunch of hosts at one time because he prefers to use his hosts more as a bludgeon instead of like a scalpel, when it comes to problem solving, than what does that mean for gameplay as well as story? https://assets1.ignimgs.com/2018/08/30/meepo-thumb-1535672319351_1280w.jpg LoL has its' Meepo
This is also a really great take on what could be accomplished with this thematic gameplay wise!
Rioter Comments
: Pylas is now a letter off from Sylas. He might get retconned...
I don't see this as a reason to retcon him, otherwise why bother to name any non-champion character in the lore. Besides if he were swapped to take Atreus' role as the Aspect in the lore, his champion name would be Pantheon.
Rioter Comments
Gilgayu (NA)
: Who is your favorite champion?
{{champion:80}} I really love the '_gods among men_' and '_gods atop Mt Olympus_' thematic Targon has going, and of course his spartan aesthetic. I'm looking forward to see how he fits into the new Targonian aesthetic we see on {{champion:142}} {{champion:136}} {{champion:44}}, once he is reworked. **** Similarly I'm looking forward to any Targonian aesthetics in the {{champion:10}}{{champion:25}} update.
: The Tales of Ornn are not outdated, these are just tales which shouldn't be taken too literally. For example, Serylda speaks which already has lost her voice at this point. However, like almost every tale, there is some truth in it.
I agree, it's entirely possible Serylda used sign language and the story just quotes it as "_this is what she had to say_". Also there is a time skip in that story in which Avarossa could have lost her hearing and Serylda had her voice taken, it doesn't even mention Lissandra being blind. Lissandra's bio gives no frame of reference for when the sisters lost their senses relative to each other.
: If I could just pick anyone at all? Ignoring what any Rioter has ever said? Garen. The “Knight” champion doesn’t look like a knight . Doesn’t play like a knight. And has a pretty boring playstyle and voice over that’s only notable in that people made memes about screaming “Demacia.” That’ll never happen of course.
I also would love to see a lot of the Demacian armor and weaponry displayed on Universe to come to a realization on champs like {{champion:5}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:59}} .
: soraka's most recent bio
I do not think {{champion:16}} helped the Targonians trick {{champion:136}} into servitude. However, whether she'd considered herself one of them or their ally is up in the air. Based on her lore, I don't think she would necessarily have stopped them or resent them for it. I have a theory that the Targonians overthrew the Celestials, much like how the Greek gods overthrew the Titans. I believe the Vastayan tribe they are referring to are the Marai, {{champion:267}} 's tribe, however we'll have to wait and see, it could be a new tribe indeed.
QMighty (NA)
: I really wanna see them split Panth and Atreus up so both sides of the Panth fanbase can have what they want, with Atreus being the traditional Spartan with Spartan armour and Pantheon taking on a new host and becoming the cosmic horror that the fans of the new lore want (I assume these exist). Plus it could create some cool story opportunities between the two characters.
Define "_cosmic horror_", because _if_ they split the 2, Pantheon is still the Aspect of War, and I'd prefer they focused on the Warrior Aspects scattered throughout the universe connected by the [_"The Essence of War"_](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/aurelionsol-color-story/) and develop a militaristic background behind Pantheon. If I had to give Atreus a real motive to go against Pantheon (_he **chose** to become an Aspect after all_), I would make Pantheon's new host, Pylas' body, it was preserved at the peak of Mt Targon.
: Well, sadly for you, and I don't mean this in any condescending or insulting way at all, Riot will most likely go for a more celestial fantasy route with Pantheon to make him fit into Targon. Which means starry sky cloak, comet spear and the like, all to make him match the idea of this spacefaring empire of the stars.
When I look at {{champion:142}} and {{champion:44}} I can see their connection to Targon, {{champion:136}} and the celestial realm, they don't appear _otherworldly_ imo. The starry cloak, was described in his short story, and his spear is starstone, as a Targon champion celestial VFX are to be expected. However, in terms of visuals I believe a "modernization" is a better description of what to expect, especially if the art from Soraka's story is anything to go off of.
: Alright folks, this is going to be a big one; Let's talk ALL the current Tier 1 VGU priority champs
On {{champion:102}}, I would make her human form naked... wait, wait don't leave... I meant that in a literal sense. Wait! Come back! Basically have her dragon scales and bones be her clothing in human form, her Dragon skull armor, let that be her own skull from her transformation, she'd be naked the in the same sense as when she is in dragon form. Then add some Demacian flare onto her, the blue and white may not work, but maybe golden armor that melts and cools each time she transforms in a burst of flames. I'm personally a fan of {{champion:35}} being a possessed puppet from one of the lesser kingdoms of Valoran opposed to him being another demon. I hope that the {{champion:31}} VGU and future void monsters incorporate the new Void aesthetic, they wouldn't be 100% accurate to the concept art but I think they can come decently close compared to the current ingame aesthetic. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlDTgKFU8AAnYbr.jpg
: Alright folks, this is going to be a big one; Let's talk ALL the current Tier 1 VGU priority champs
> And are we going to get something akin to the recent Venom movie with a similar dynamic between host and parasite with the aspect Pantheon and Atreus?! This has been my take on Pantheon since his lore update. As a Pantheon main, I'm hoping for character development that allows us to immerse ourselves in the stories of **both** Atreus and Pantheon, simultaneously if possible. Just as it matters who is under the Venom symbiote, whether its Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson, similarly it should matter that Atreus is Pantheon's current host. Questions I'm interested in are: "_How does Atreus' ambitions and ideals affect the actions Pantheon takes while in his body?_" "_How do they line up with Pantheon's own goals?_" and of course "_What are Pantheon's goals?_" **** Many already have taken sides as to whether they think killing off Atreus and having Panth find a new host will be a good way to permanently kill a character, others want Atreus free of Pantheon's control, and the Aspect dead if possible. However, we know nothing about Pantheon, to support these decisions. I'm not against conflict between Atreus and Pantheon, but it should have greater weight than "_Pantheon's perspective is all that matters for world building_" or "_Pantheon is a body snatcher and hence should die_". Otherwise their death would be meaningless. **** I think majority of Panth mains will also agree that Pantheon deserves a sidearm that helps expand his kit's skill ceiling. Perhaps he is able to manipulate the starstone in his spear to change between weapons. I'm also interested in the numerous Aspects of War scattered throughout the universe, they give meaning to the name, Pantheon.
DiPiStyle (EUW)
: Quiz time: try to guess what these champions have in common
I'm assuming the Demacia event with Sylas' release will lead into the Kayle & Morgana update and round out the Demacian champs. **Demacia:** {{champion:37}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:5}} It was said that the Freljord bios would be updated at the end of Ashe: WARMOTHER's run. **Freljord:** {{champion:113}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:34}} As you stated, we may receive the Yordle update this year. However, I think there is a possibility Rumble and Corki are moved to Piltover and updated with Heimerdinger as Piltover champs. Similarly Ziggs might be updated whenever they return to Zaun. **Bandle City:** {{champion:42}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:117}} **** Void lore may come whenever Cho'gath or Kog'maw receive a rework, or they may surprise us with it this year. Noxus and Zaun will likely be returned to in the future. **Void:** {{champion:31}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:421}} I'm betting that Alistar's lore will remain focused on his enslavement in Noxus, and not with him being free just yet. **Noxus:** {{champion:69}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:12}} **Zaun:** {{champion:29}} {{champion:27}} **** These are the ones you need to worry about, see all the others can be placed into a category and potentially updated, these few we're not sure when they will be updated. If I had to say, Bard being a celestial may see an update whenever we return to Targon, and Jax and Zilean, may be updated as Icathian's whenever they do the Void lore. **Runeterra:** {{champion:54}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:432}}
: I Don't Think Sylas Thought Through His Revolution
Sylas isn't trying to find a place for mages in Demacia, he's trying to tear down the current system and start over. So if Noxus conquers Demacia, and he and his mages have place in their new kingdom he'd welcome it, perhaps he's actually counting on Noxus, a pro mage country stepping in and essentially aiding his side of the conflict. On a side note, J4's capture at the hands of the Noxians was removed from Garen's bio. If Noxus actually attacks this would be a good reason to expand that part of the lore into a short story.
SSmotzer (NA)
: You do have to keep in mind that there is no confirmation that Kayle or Morgana are Targonian or from the Celestial plain. That pattern behind the wings is also reminiscent of Shuriman, Ionian, and even Blessed Isles imagery. From the way Rioters are describing Kayle, she hasn't "Ascended" like how Taric, Pantheon, Zoe, Diana, or Leona "Ascended." Kayle has to unlock her Ascension over time, much like how we see Kayn unlock his Ascended form by Ascending into Shadow Assassin Kayn. And if Aatrox is to believed, she used magic to cheat her way to Ascension, again, much like how Kayn cheated the Ascension process by stealing Rhaast's Ascended power. And Kayle and Morgana being tied to a Darkin wouldn't be the first time two people shared a single Darkin, that honor would go to Varus, and if the Darkin they are sharing is Valeeva, Varus's sister who is obsessed with justice and has pale skin with glowing purple veins, it would make narrative symmetry between Varus and Valeeva. But hey, that's just a theory... a game theory, thanks for reading.
> You do have to keep in mind that there is no confirmation that Kayle or Morgana are Targonian or from the Celestial plain. That pattern behind the wings is also reminiscent of Shuriman, Ionian, and even Blessed Isles imagery. Indeed, however, we know for a fact that they are going to be connect to Demacia, and the Crown of Stone is currently the only canon method of a Demacian attaining celestial powers. These patterns are also present in the designs of {{champion:142}} {{champion:136}} and {{champion:44}}, these are Targonian designs. While the Blessed Isles also features circles in their designs, triangles and diamond shapes are equally a key visual absent from the teaser, Ionia focuses over smooth flowing lines and curves due to it's connection with nature, however compared to Targon's heavy use of circles they fall short, similarly Shurima. I personally do not think a Darkin is the only explanation for Kayle's unusual ascension however, all theories are fair game until Kayle and Morgana are revealed I suppose.
Naalith (NA)
: Does anyone know if this art asset is currently in-game or could it be from a second new champion?
Reav3 (NA)
: Sure, current Champions we talk a lot about internally for VGUS are {{champion:36}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:106}}
As a {{champion:80}} main I'm looking forward to his VGU the most and as a Targon fan in general, I have to say, the second {{champion:10}}{{champion:25}} teaser image is absolutely stunning, 11/10. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} I'm most excited about the lore direction for Pantheon, I hope both Atreus and Pantheon are equally developed, I know most persons treat them like Kayn and Rhaast and have already taken sides, but I view them like Kindred 2 _aspects_ of the same champion. **** I noticed in the artwork for Soraka's lore, Pantheon's helmet now shares the design of Kayle's helmet... that isn't anything worth speculating about is it...? Not that I have but you know... not that I haven't.
: Are champions names possible to be reworked too ? Like for Nunu, Willump was added (and for good reason). It feel weird to me to have a freljordian warbear god name ending with bear and not with a more scandinavian norse name pattern. Im dedicated as Malicous Metal with my freljordian raiders !
I wouldn't want them to change his name. At best, I see them giving him a name in the Freljordian tongue that roughly translates to "_The Volibear_". Similar to what they did with Kassadin, Noxians mispronounce his actual Shuriman name, "_Kas sai a dyn_" (whom does the desert know).
Cetri (NA)
: >“Alright you lot,” Gunthar said. “I know you’re all wondering why in the Protector’s name we’ve been sent all the way out here.” This caught my eye. With the commentary on how Ascension is tied to one's culture/ideals, is this saying that Taric's aspect is a deity in Demacia?
From {{champion:44}}'s short story: > I could try to reason with them, ask them to move their brawl elsewhere, **but my former countrymen now see me as something between a traitor and a wrathful god**, and the Noxians… well, the Noxians have always been short on patience. I never expected to see him mentioned in this context though, I always assumed he was someone that was _'known'_ but _'never acknowledged'_, must say, I was pleasantly surprised.
: It's the last chance they have to write something decent about Demacia and probably the only bit we'll get about Targon for a long... LONG while. My idea is that Kayle will be heavily influenced by Demacia beliefs far more than Taric (there has been a hint of her new ingame look in the video, a wing of her probably and I can see some demacian features).
I'm hoping we get a {{champion:80}} VGU this year, but only time will tell. Aside from Kayle and Morgana, {{champion:5}} {{champion:236}} and {{champion:37}} still need updated bios. More than likely, I expect the magic discrimination to play some role in Kayle and Morgana's lore.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: If Pantheon gets a VGU before Morde, I'm gonna be so mad
**TARGON HYPE!!!** {{champion:80}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:25}}
QMighty (NA)
: Another Post Hyping the Dang Roadmap
I personally hope we get 2 VGU teasers tomorrow,{{champion:80}} and {{champion:82}}, as the season 2019 trailer revealed the teaser art for {{champion:10}} & {{champion:25}} and the new support champion already. Whoever gets revealed tomorrow is a result of whatever thematic/ idea the Rioter behind the rework is passionate about, and we cannot complain about that, passionate ideas don't come from people who get forced to do something. The Kayle and Morgana teaser looks absolutely beautiful (**TARGON HYPE!!**) and they were a complete oddball last roadmap _imo_.
Madjack01 (EUW)
: Superbeings vs normal people.
Regular champs vs super powered beings is as simple as, hero A vs hero B, where hero A only has a wooden sword vs hero B who has a full set of armor. You can't complain that hero A won't defeat hero B, however, in order to defeat hero B, hero A doesn't need everything hero B has, only a metal sword or a weapon capable of piercing hero B's armour, in some instances there will be weak points in where a wooden sword will suffice. Now look at {{champion:15}} {{champion:81}} and {{champion:38}}, these 3 champions can all are human champs that can kill an Ascended/ Aspect, because they wield Ascended weapons. However, this fact does not make the fight a fair one, it simply means it is possible for them to win, and this is all that's necessary for a story. Often unless the odds are 50-50 people will complain about the outcome, but this is not how probability works. Not all powerful beings are there simply to fight, there are some powerful characters we may rarely ever see fight {{champion:16}} {{champion:142}} {{champion:432}} because they are a healer or messenger and not a fighter. Even in the case of some fighters, just because you have powerful characters does not mean their presence will be the focal point of the story.
: LOL mmorpg, what would u be
An Aspect, especially if the class means I can basically choose 2 characters. A host and an Aspect. The Killash are one of my favorite things about the Shuriman continent, I would also love the opportunity to play as one.
: How would you rank your favourite Runeterra factions?
Targon is my favorite and also number 1 on my list. Runner up: Demacia. However, there are a few reasons why Targon won't score high on other people's list/ why it wasn't that popular on the popularity poll. Prior to the retcon, Mount Targon only had 3 champions: {{champion:89}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:80}}. Meaning Targon fans were fans of the Leona and Diana/ Solari vs Lunari conflict or fans of Sparta and Greek aesthetics. This was a niche target audience, as the Leona and Diana conflict governed the entirety of Mount Targon lore and Pantheon was the sole spartan character in game. Compared to Freljord's heavy viking/ barbarian/ celtic aesthetic, Ionia's heavy Asian aesthetic and 4 ninjas {{champion:98}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:238}} and Demacia's knights and mages fantasy, Bilgewater's pirate country and so on. **** Then came the retcon, Targon was moved into the "Greek gods on top Mt Olympus" thematic. This concept holds a lot of potential for the future, however a lot of the new lore was not well accepted. The lore allowed itself to be misinterpreted by fans, the main one being Leona's, however their are also instances where the new lore can be simply be better Diana's agency as a "_scholar_" rather than just "_someone who doesn't fit in_" and Pantheon's **biography** ending without any context on Pantheon himself. In addition to this, the new Targon champ {{champion:136}} was solely based on hating the Targonians, basically an in-lore funnel for disliking Targon. Which isn't normally a bad thing however compared to the actual villainous factions, the Shadow Isles, the Void, the Watchers, the Black Rose, no one actually hates these regions/ factions. **** Targon has no antithesis... Look at Piltover and Zaun, Demacia and Noxus (pre-retcon at least), having an antithesis bolsters a factions popularity, Piltover and Zaun work off of each other they are 2 sides of the same coin. Post-retcon there was some attempt to set up the Void as the antithesis to Targon, the problems with this, the Void was and still is, set up as a problem that is a danger to multiple factions and as well as a force of nature that as a whole, has no need for ideals. Meaning there was nothing for Targon to bounce their own ideals off of. That being said however, Targon has a lot of potential and we having been seeing some decent set-up/ follow-up in the lore.
: @Riot can you shed some light on this HERO?
That's actually Pantheon. {{champion:80}}: _"I've always wanted to be a baker... Yes a baker."_
: But Leona and Diana are diffrent,and according to kindred’s lore they don’t obey them Zoe is still childish to the near point of insanity and even though she is powerful , Leona has the ability to literally stand blind any thing by standing near it. Knowledge isn’t always equal to age , she is still a childish soul who’s never grown up and still lacks knowledge and her personality often blinds her ability to fight to her extend. And I’m reminding you , kindred has existed for longer than Zoe has but that doesn’t mean they can kill her.
I cannot find where {{champion:203}}'s lore make mention of this? Demigods and spirits like Kindred are vastly different from Aspects and Ascended like Leona. Zoe chooses to be childish, she is fully capable and understanding of her importance in the lore, this is hinted at in her story and her VO. Knowledge isn't proportionate to age, however it is proportionate to experience and this is why Zoe would be more knowledgeable and is why she is _currently_ more capable the other Aspects.
: Skin Universe Lore in 2019: Alt Fantasy, Multiverse Theory, and You
Personally, I would love to see more from the Dragon World universe. Especially since the first dragonslayer {{champion:80}} and the fearsome dragon knight {{champion:82}} are due for reworks soon, I also believe Dragon World is an alternate universe that can deliver well on a game mode dedicated to its setting similar to Odyssey and Star Gaurdian. Keep up the good work.
: but wasnt this proven false since aatrox said in his lore he couldnt come back to his ascended stage or even be free or die?
As I was speculating that would depend on the importance of 'concepts' in the ascension ritual, if the concept itself is the celestial power and the cause for the ritual or simply associated with celestial power.
: ? but aspects and gods like kindred dont obey the laws of reality just like you said ,for example kindred can be anywhere at any time at any speed and has been out much longer than zoe but that doesn't mean she can beat zoe. also since they dont obey the law of time, how does time progression in skill count ? for all you might know time can flow differently with leona and zoe and there is now way to know, but since we know time doesn't count with them it doesn't make sense. in this case knowledge doesn't count with age since it is stated in leona's lore that she got memories and knowledge from past lifes and millions of years and so did diana, so what your argument literally makes 0 sense. {{item:3190}} {{summoner:14}} {{champion:89}} **PRAISE THE SUN** {{champion:89}} {{summoner:14}} {{item:3190}}
They may not interact with time in a conventional manner however this does not mean they do not obey them. Zoe has lived for millennia, it is similar fashion to a regular person, someone who has been doing a something consistently over a period of time would be better than someone newly exposed to said experience, with few exceptions. Based on Diana's story we have a hint at how they access the knowledge and memories of their predecessors, they do not have full control over all of their memories and possibly have yet to have seen them all. It is similar to Avatar in where, they have access to past experiences, however Leona and Diana themselves are very new and not that knowledgeable, and wonder have to actively seek out memories for answers. Unlike Pantheon, who should actively and instantly have access to past experiences because he fully controls his host. Hence why the length of time and aptitude for being an Aspect is important in the case of Leona, Diana and Zoe.
: Who do you think is the best designed champion and why ¿
Some of my favorites are: {{champion:142}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:142}} embodies the "trickster god" archetype almost perfectly _imo_. I think her short story could have emphasized her mischievous nature more, however, I look forward to seeing her meddling in affairs of future stories. {{champion:16}} introduced the celestials in a manner I wish was done with the Targonians, and I can only hope that this is a sign for improved/ expanded Targon lore to come. Likewise {{champion:266}} truly personifies the idea of a "fallen god-warrior", making the Darkin fallen Ascended truly cemented their place in Runterra history. **** {{champion:122}}, as well as {{champion:41}} are regular humans that were able to be portrayed as dangerous and vicious men based on their actions and speech alone. I look forward to this kind of portrayal of character impact for both super-human and regular champions, such moments when a character can "command" the story, are what defines a character's impact on the overall story and not their power levels. _(I personally hope to see this "Darius-mentality" from {{champion:113}} and {{champion:80}} in future stories)_
: So was Lux and Sylas a thing?
If there were any attraction involved, I'd bet maybe it was {{champion:99}}'s one-sided feelings. Or at the very least I'm certain at some point {{champion:81}} will mistake Luz and Sylas' relationship for a romantic one, lol.
Ralanr (NA)
: For a guy who claims he had to eat rats in prison, Sylas is well shaven.
Perhaps {{champion:99}} was the one that shaved his beard. {{champion:81}} _probably wishing he had a beard right about now, lol._ **** People are bringing up valid points about his design as someone imprisoned for 15 years however, it entirely depends on the conditions of his imprisonment. Outside of him said to have eaten rats I haven't seen much other elaboration on the harshness of his imprisonment. How often did he have to depend on the rats? Perhaps the conditions he was under lightened as Lux began interacting with him, how long did they interact before Sylas had her bring the tome, months, years? I think stuff like this can be considered if we really wanted to examine his features.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wrathof300,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=UE6md8k0,comment-id=0002000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-09T19:13:05.376+0000) > > Personally I wouldn't say that Alistar fills the "Chained champ" archetype as much as he fills the "Minotaur" archetype. Even if this were an Alistar rework and not a new champ, I don't believe that Riot would have taken the same approach. Alistar's theme is about breaking free of the chains, whereas Sylas' theme focuses on using them as weapons. > > Alistar has one foot in the "Chained champion" archetype, but Sylas embodies the archetype in a more complete and visceral way than Alistar currently does. Yeah, probably something to do with the fact that he's outdated as hell. Alistar could have been turned into something that embodies the archetype more, but that seems to not be the case.
Alistar can still be turned into a champion than embodies the "Chained champion" archetype, however, not in the way Sylas portrays it, simply because Alistar's character approaches the archetype differently. This is the same as saying Nautilus should have just been given Pyke's lore and abilities, the reason this doesn't work and why Riot did not do this is because those characteristics were not representative of Naut, however, the fact remained that Pyke approached Naut's old lore in a fashion more captivating than the old Nautilus. So saying Alistar could have been reworked with Sylas' abilities and stuff as league's "chained champion" doesn't work because Alistar approaches the archetype from a specific point of view. It is entirely possible Riot ends up leaning into the "chained/enslaved" theme with Alistar where he has yet to break free from Noxus, but his desire to be unchained is what drives him, just because one character does something doesn't mean its ruined for everyone else.
: > [{quoted}](name=Brumbo Tungus,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=UE6md8k0,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-01-09T18:43:45.186+0000) > > I'm sorry but how does anything in Sylas scream Alistar? I'm not talking about Sylas' character and personality here. I'm talking about the archetype of a "Chained Champion" in general. We already had one, but instead of updating him to modern standards, Riot would rather make a new one. > > Also hasn't Riot been doing the exact opposite with basically replacing Aatrox with a brand new champion? Yes, they have, and that's part of the issue.
Personally I wouldn't say that Alistar fills the "Chained champ" archetype as much as he fills the "Minotaur" archetype. Even if this were an Alistar rework and not a new champ, I don't believe that Riot would have taken the same approach. Alistar's theme is about breaking free of the chains, whereas Sylas' theme focuses on using them as weapons. Alistar has one foot in the "Chained champion" archetype, but Sylas embodies the archetype in a more complete and visceral way than Alistar currently does.
: So can there be anything positive about Demacia?
The problem with Demacia is not as simple as, "they discriminate hence they are the villains", the non-mages of Demacia were the ones initially oppressed and over the course of time they became oppressors themselves. The problem is what to do when the most logical decision "suppress the use of magic/ make mages as harmless as a regular person" is the wrong decision. The Demacians are hypocrites (not because of Galio they most of Demacia do not believe he can be awakened) but because when it comes to friends and family suddenly they wish to cherish the mages they so hated, J4 and Shyvanna, Garen and Lux, the village chief and her son who was possessed by Noc from For Demacia, the Farmer and his daughter and the Hillfolk chief and her son from Demacian Heart, even Marsino and Sylas. People ignore the fact that all of **these people who cherished these mages, were also Demacians** and look only at the oppression. The Demacia's are fighting for what they believe in, magic is something that needs to be controlled, their methods were simply wrong and unjust. {{champion:163}} is a good example of what Demacia could become (someone once terrified by the magic within them, but learned to accept it as part of themselves), because of the dangers that come with magic they have to be willing to make sacrifices to accept the mages of their society. **** Imo, Noxus isn't necessarily nicer than Demacia, it is **accepting**, they accept the evil within. I am certain there is no Noxian player upset about there being a cabal of dark magics that are trying to manipulate the country from the shadows, so only topics that hit close to home are perceived as bad by players like {{champion:141}}'s child labour/ slavery.
: Sylas Special interactions
They kept the {{champion:10}} &{{champion:25}} taunts sparse, I wonder if this is a reflection of their overall importance to Demacia or a reflection of Sylas' limited knowledge of their presence in Demacia. That Sylas and Ezreal rivalry though.
2Kegs (EUW)
: Really? That's interesting because if she were to become a vastaya that would entirely ruin the whole character for me. I agree that maybe it'd feel forced to invent a new source of power just for her but at the same time she feels really like the paladin archetype and I'm not sure how I'd feel about her associating with the other ascended like {{champion:142}}
{{champion:142}} being an Aspect speaks to no degree the kind of change you could expect from {{champion:10}} becoming an Aspect. The Aspects are currently the most effective way to have Kayle and Morg remain angels without introducing a new race or making them Vastaya. This is because currently the Aspects are based on persons imbued with celestial magic, and taking on the forms of the 'gods' of their religion, with the Shuriman Ascended resembling Egyptian gods and the Targonian Aspects resembling Greco Roman gods. If Kayle and Morgana were to become Aspects it would be as a reflection of Demacian beliefs. This is as far as I've speculated, with Taric being different because he never felt attachment to return to Demacia. That said, Zoe is a trickster god among the Aspects and doesn't represent the norm for an Aspect/ Ascended.
Terozu (NA)
: Blast fucking lied!!!
No... You seem pretty "shook".
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