Falrein (EUW)
: From what I remember from Kayle and Morgana's AMA, they decided not to include Targonian interactions because they wanted to focus on them being Demacian, and their views on justice. Though, I'm gonna admit I'm a bit disappointed by their interactions, it's the only negative point in their VOs to me, they are rather... Lacking. But anyway. ______________________________ Taric embodies the Celestial concept of the Protector, while Kayle is just the deity they named Protector (it probably stayed from the original Winged Protectors). Arguably, Taric being influenced by Demacian faith may have influenced the Protector's decision of choosing him, but I'm not sure, given the Winged Protector and the Celestial concept known as the Protector seem to have very different ideologies. I'm unsure if Taric will play a role in K&M's reconciliation tho. Some would argue that he will, some that he won't. I'm personally not fond of the idea, as I'd rather them working on their issues on their own but well, only time will tell! __________________________________ And last but not least, I'm fairly certain Kayle _did_ make it to the Celestial Realm. She's probably been training with Targon, becoming their perfect little soldier... But isn't she blinded by her admiration towards them...? Are they as perfect as she thinks they are...? :p
> Though, I'm gonna admit I'm a bit disappointed by their interactions, it's the only negative point in their VOs to me, they are rather... Lacking. But anyway. For me it's their design. Much more could have been done to blend a Demacian and Targonian feel in their appearances, while keeping them Demacian. **** Based on Kayle, Targon seems like it has so much to offer in way of their story progression so I look forward to any interaction in future lore. Especially any potential interaction between {{champion:10}} and {{champion:80}}.
tamaya (NA)
: "It is always a moon's role to envy the stars." But I envy the moon.
In the best case scenario, and the direction I like to believe Leona's lore rewrite always hinted at, was that if anyone could right the wrongs of the Solari it would be Leona. As the dominating faith of Mt. Targon, all of the other tribes would follow in her example. **** With {{champion:80}}'s rework I think Riot is hinting at the _'change'_ to coming to the Targon faction. For so long the fanbase has been obsessed with the Aspects and the celestials, but I think we're being told that the stories that should matter to us, are those of the tribes of Mt. Targon and how they learn to live without depending on their "gods". If Targon falls, just as the Aspect of War did, then the responsibility immediately falls on the shoulders of Mt. Targon's leaders{{champion:89}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:142}}{{champion:16}} . > {{champion:80}} to {{champion:89}}: _"Beneath armor and Aspect, you are more resilient than you know."_
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Phridolin (EUW)
: @Riot a small request for Dragonslayer Pantheon + some suitable idea for his ult
> Pantheon can wear immersive sandals in nearly every other skin but not this Riot, pls. I mean look at Xin or Swain. Do they wear sandals with full scale armor into combat? No they don't. I think they're planning on giving him [boots](https://twitter.com/dankyart/status/1157015384278441984).
NeverGame (EUW)
: Thank you for the long answer, it really helped my questions I had in mind. But I do have one more question you can maybe help me with. Pantheon isn't the actual name from Atreus. Is Pantheon the name of the celestial being? And do the other celestial aspects have names for themself either?
Yep, Pantheon is the name of the celestial being. We can only assume the others have names as well. **** From {{champion:44}}'s bio: > His trials complete, and freed from all illusion, Taric found himself at the pinnacle of the mountain, and he was not alone. > Before him, cut from the sackcloth of night itself, stood something wearing the shape of a man. Its features composed from the pinpoints of stars, Taric was struck by the odd familiarity of its nature. > Its voice spoke in a thousand whispers that cut through Taric like a mountain wind. Though he heard no recognizable words, he understood the figure’s intent with utter clarity. > **It called itself “the Protector.”** Until now {{champion:44}}'s Aspect was referred to as "the Protector", but that might not be the Aspect's name seeing as they have started calling Taric, the _Aspect of the Protector_. Note that, in Demacia {{champion:10}} is known as "**the Protector**", whether this is a coincidence, clever writing or a mistake on Riot's part, I think should be left to your interpretation. **** Happy to share my understanding and interpretations of the lore.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wrathof300,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=sbEEptFe,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-01T22:18:08.924+0000) > > "=" means "equals". > "=/=" means does not "equal". ahh. God I can be a dumbass
Nah, my bad on the shorthand language.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wrathof300,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=sbEEptFe,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-08-01T21:55:03.364+0000) > > No she isn't. Myisha is a previous host for the Aspect of Twilight. so what with this Zoe=/=Myisha?
"=" means "equals". "=/=" means does not "equal".
: > [{quoted}](name=Wrathof300,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=sbEEptFe,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-08-01T21:20:07.149+0000) > > If you've seen Avatar: The Legend of Korra, think of it like this; the vessels {{champion:80}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:142}} are the avatar's reincarnation, but their power comes from the Aspect that chose them, the Raava that allows the avatar to wield all 4 elements. > **** > The Aspects are the 'gods' Leona, Diana, Zoe and Taric are the vessels. The vessels **can** be considered gods however, as they draw power from the Aspect dwelling within them. With the death of the Aspect of War, I'm not sure if Atreus has become a god, or if he is just using the leftover powers from his godhood. > > I don't think we actually have confirmation that an Aspect **has to die** for a new vessel to be chosen. > > {{champion:10}} & {{champion:25}} are demi-gods in a truer sense, where they were born from one human parent and one godly parent. Essentially they both inherited the powers of the Aspect of Justice. Their mother was pregnant when she made the ascent to Targon's peak. > > {{champion:142}} =/= Myisha according to Rioters. However, just as the vessels have access to the Aspect's power, some have access to past memories and knowledge. > > Atreus' possession **was** a special case, perhaps even among all Aspects of War that ever lived. Taric, Leona and Diana are in full control of their bodies although their minds and emotions can be influenced by the Aspect, similar to someone whispering in your ear, but they haven't been possessed like Atreus was. Zoe's Aspect has been show to restrict her use of her powers in order to get her to focus on her missions. > > Why didn't Pantheon just ascended someone worthy? Perhaps the Mountain's peak plays a role in the ascension ritual and only Atreus had made it to the Mountain's peak of his group of climbers. Which, essentially would have made him worthy in the eyes of another Aspect. Perhaps the Aspect did not trust a mortal's ability to resist the Darkin's corruption, hence they deemed mortal's unworthy of the task. Ironically evidenced by the fact that Atreus could not even fight Pantheon for his own body. > > Potentially Atreus didn't die from his wound because of his enhanced body, this would mean Aatrox did something else to the Aspect that tore them out of Atreus body. > **** > Atreus despises the gods for their disregard of humanity, however he isn't on a manhunt to slay them. He simply wishes for man to rise up and defend themselves, isn't of relying on gods and legends. > **** > {{champion:80}} to {{champion:131}}: "_The Lunari do not need a god, they need, a leader._" > {{champion:80}} to {{champion:89}}: "_Beneath Aspect and armor, you are more resilient than you know._" > {{champion:80}} to {{champion:16}}: "_If only your kind, could see what you see Soraka. They would weep for you, as you weep for us._" > **** > {{champion:98}} however is Runterra's avatar, keeping the balance between the balance between the spirit realm and the physical plane. wait, so Zoe is Myisha? she just gave herself a new name for that time?
No she isn't. Myisha is a previous host for the Aspect of Twilight.
NeverGame (EUW)
: What are the Aspects and how do they work?
If you've seen Avatar: The Legend of Korra, think of it like this; the vessels {{champion:80}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:142}} are the avatar's reincarnation, but their power comes from the Aspect that chose them, the Raava that allows the avatar to wield all 4 elements. **** The Aspects are the 'gods' Leona, Diana, Zoe and Taric are the vessels. The vessels **can** be considered gods however, as they draw power from the Aspect dwelling within them. With the death of the Aspect of War, I'm not sure if Atreus has become a god, or if he is just using the leftover powers from his godhood. I don't think we actually have confirmation that an Aspect **has to die** for a new vessel to be chosen. {{champion:10}} & {{champion:25}} are demi-gods in a truer sense, where they were born from one human parent and one godly parent. Essentially they both inherited the powers of the Aspect of Justice. Their mother was pregnant when she made the ascent to Targon's peak. {{champion:142}} is not Myisha according to Rioters. However, just as the vessels have access to the Aspect's power, some have access to past memories and knowledge. Atreus' possession **was** a special case, perhaps even among all Aspects of War that ever lived. Taric, Leona and Diana are in full control of their bodies although their minds and emotions can be influenced by the Aspect, similar to someone whispering in your ear, but they haven't been possessed like Atreus was. Zoe's Aspect has been show to restrict her use of her powers in order to get her to focus on her missions. Why didn't Pantheon just ascended someone worthy? Perhaps the Mountain's peak plays a role in the ascension ritual (hence why even though Zoe was chosen at the base she was teleported to the peak) and only Atreus had made it to the Mountain's peak of his group of climbers. Which, essentially would have made him worthy in the eyes of another Aspect. Perhaps the Aspect did not trust a mortal's ability to resist the Darkin's corruption, hence they deemed mortal's unworthy of the task. Ironically evidenced by the fact that Atreus could not even fight Pantheon for his own body. Potentially Atreus didn't die from his wound because of his enhanced body, this would mean Aatrox did something else to the Aspect that tore them out of Atreus body. **** Atreus despises the gods for their disregard of humanity, however he isn't on a manhunt to slay them. He simply wishes for man to rise up and defend themselves, isn't of relying on gods and legends. **** > {{champion:80}}: "_Vengeance is cold. I do not need it on the Mountain._" {{champion:80}} to {{champion:131}}: "_The Lunari do not need a god, they need, a leader._" {{champion:80}} to {{champion:89}}: "_Beneath Aspect and armor, you are more resilient than you know._" {{champion:80}} to {{champion:16}}: "_If only your kind, could see what you see Soraka. They would weep for you, as you weep for us._" **** > If you've seen Avatar: The Legend of Korra, think of it like this; the vessels {{champion:80}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:142}} are the avatar's reincarnation, but their power comes from the Aspect that chose them, the Raava that allows the avatar to wield all 4 elements. {{champion:98}} however is Runterra's avatar, keeping the balance between the balance between the spirit realm and the physical plane.
: I think the upcoming ADC might be a Lunari.
> It's only for Diana, Zoe... and Soraka, who it seems is going to be retconned into a Lunari figure. Which would be nice, considering that she's been in need of a rewrite since the Warwick update. {{champion:16}}'s lore was updated last year. Although making her a Lunari figure isn't impossible and there wouldn't be a need for a rewrite for this to happen, it's not as though she doesn't already have lore.
: One thing about Baker Pantheon. One big thing.
For me I really hope they change the skin back to a red scarf and oven mitts, so that it matches with Leona again. Also his old idle animation where he spreads the butter, instead of bashing his shield.
: Leona and Diana are 100% gonna get their bios chopped in half. They're way outside of the standard word count for bios and are borderline stories at this point. I hope that we actually do get some continuation of on the ground Targon though as it's been quite some time since Riot checked in. Maybe Leona and Diana can finally meet up... or at least Nami and Diana
I'm also interested to see where they'll take {{champion:136}}'s lore from here, now that Pantheon has died.
Abandon (OCE)
: Pantheon biography is still terrible writing - ROUND 2.
Why did {{champion:80}} survive {{champion:266}}'s assault? **** His body was empowered by the celestial powers within him, this would have resulted in him healing from his mortal wounds post battle. Aatrox likely left Atreus alive intentionally. It is possible, in slaying Pantheon, this required an approach that ripped Pantheon's soul from Atreus' body, hence the damage was more spiritual than physical, otherwise just as Atreus recovered, so would have Pantheon. Upon Pantheon's death, and Atreus' re-emergence, Aatrox could have sympathized with Atreus. He saw another man wronged by the gods. It is not the first time Aatrox has left a victim of his on death's door either... {{champion:23}}. **** Aatrox wants to die, so potential enemies are also another way to ensure, if he cannot kill himself, someone will look for a way. **** After defeating Aatrox, Atreus still runs the risk of having to battle Aatrox for his body upon picking up his blade, so there is not much he could have done after defeating him. Hence Pantheon's reasoning "Mortals not being capable of dealing with the remaining Darkin." The new lore may not be perfect but it is not unbelievable.
GreenLore (EUW)
: Yeah I originally hoped that Pantheons update would bring us some insights into the aspects as a whole given that he was an aspect himself, so I'm a bit disappointed that this is unlikely to happen. That being said, I do think that this was for the best, as I never saw anyone who really liked the new Pantheon and a lot of people complained that Pantheon went from "human badass" to "jerkass god, who steals bodies and enslaves dragons". Heck new Panths lore looks like it builds upon how disliked the previous lore was as, it kills of the disliked god-pantheon and replaces him with a human one, that even shares the fandoms dislike for what god-pantheon did. I do hope that they revisit the concept with a new champ eventually though.
I also looked forward to learning more about the Aspects. A lot of the hate for the old lore was unwarranted imo, and nothing more that disgruntled fans pinning their hate on the Aspect. The new lore corrects the main problem of the old lore immediately however, it explains that Pantheon possessing Atreus was done malevolently and his purpose for doing so. While I dislike that the new lore partially justifies some fans' unreasonable hate, it really is the version of the lore we ought to have received from day 1. I love Targon as a region and the extended Shuriman continent and look forward to Atreus' story from here. I hope we get some updates to the stories of other Targon champs, even if only minor changes.
: The Tragedy of Pantheon
Perhaps a previous Aspect of War was originally a member of the Killash tribe that ascended to become an Aspect. {{champion:350}} : "Has there ever been a cat Aspect, Pantheon?" {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}
Rioter Comments
: Calling Out The Aspects
The new lore corrects the singular major problem of the old lore immediately, unlike the old lore, it is made clear this time that the actions of Pantheon possessing Atreus' body was not the norm and of malevolent intent. An Aspect isn't supposed to choose someone it deems unworthy. The Aspect's reasoning behind doing so is also explained this time around, it seeking out the Darkin, Targon's unfinished business. _Characterization._ Nothing of the old lore pointed toward the fact that what Pantheon had done to Atreus was unusual or malicious. The community's hate for the Aspect is derived purely because a disgruntled hate for the lore retcon, which was unnecessarily pinned on the Aspect, simply because it's lack of characterization which made it an easy target. As far as we knew, it was simply the nature of the Aspect. This is the lore we were supposed to be given from the beginning, but we weren't able to get until now. However, that does not make the fanbase 'right' for the hate thrown toward the Targonians. Just as Atreus was done ill by an Aspect, there will be others that show a different relationship between god and man.
: What Champions would you like to see featured if Riot created a new Cinematic?
: what is your favourite skin line?
**Dragon World** Dragonslayers: {{champion:80}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:67}} Dragon Sorceress {{champion:143}} Dragon Knight {{champion:82}} Dragon Master {{champion:50}} Dragon Trainers:{{champion:18}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:74}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Wrathof300,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8wwoT4J0,comment-id=000a0001,timestamp=2019-07-10T22:08:10.434+0000) > > If I recall correctly, the Rioter's statement was that there are **some** Ascended stronger than Aspects and vice versa. No hard an fast rule that as to which is more powerful by any means. > > Personally, I'd argue that Ascended are generally weaker because they draw their power from whatever the Sun Disc grants them, hence Xerath being so powerful because , whereas in the case of an Aspect more often than not, the "Aspect/ concept" of their power reside within them. I'd argue the opposite. The Ascended unnaturally "wrest" the celestial power from the sun which causes them to change form, boosts physical strength makes them nearly immortal and the Aspects just allow their hosts to have some of their power. Why would Targon bother helping Shurima create the Sun Disc therefore creating the Ascended to help fight the Void if the Ascended weren't stronger than the Aspects? It was obviously a last resort kind of thing and given the circumstances with the Void they had to do it. Given what happened after (the Darkin which the Aspects had to use sealing techniques because they couldn't kill them in a straight fight). I think it's flat out canon at this point that Ascended > Aspects. You can argue Zoe and Pantheon to a point may be stronger than SOME of the Ascended/Darkin, but Leona, Taric Morgana, Kayle or Diana would surely be eaten alive
> Why would Targon bother helping Shurima create the Sun Disc therefore creating the Ascended to help fight the Void if the Ascended weren't stronger than the Aspects? It was obviously a last resort kind of thing and given the circumstances with the Void they had to do it. Given what happened after (the Darkin which the Aspects had to use sealing techniques because they couldn't kill them in a straight fight). The Ascended were created centuries before the Void outbreak in Icathia, meaning the "creation of the Ascended to fight the Void" is only a benefit of Targon teaching the Shuriman the ascension ritual and the direct intention. The sealed Darkin were used to Kill other Darkin, allowing regular mortals to take power into their own hands so that the Aspects wouldn't have to do everything themselves. The fact that the Sun Disc wrests power is the reason Shuriman ascension cannot be **generally** more powerful than Targonian ascension. They are taking power by force with little control of how much power an individual Ascended can obtain, hence the emphasis on Xerath draining the Disc until it collapses on itself. Whereas, most Aspects have that source of power dwelling within them constantly, waiting to be drawn out at it's fullest potential.
: {{champion:266}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:141}} Aspects are technically "Ascended" too under the newer definitions of Ascensions but they are all weaker than the Shuriman Ascended so I will rank them separately {{champion:142}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:44}} Way harder to do because the Targonian Aspects are mostly featless besides Zoe and her reality bending powers and Pantheon going manmode in his color story. Kayle feels like she should be one of the strongest but she's on par with Morgana and they are only the children of an Aspect so its harder to gauge them. Take that with a grain of salt.
If I recall correctly, the Rioter's statement was that there are **some** Ascended stronger than Aspects and vice versa. No hard an fast rule that as to which is more powerful by any means. Personally, I'd argue that Ascended are generally weaker because they draw their power from whatever the Sun Disc grants them, hence Xerath being so powerful because , whereas in the case of an Aspect more often than not, the "Aspect/ concept" of their power reside within them.
EdgeLady (NA)
: Let's talk about the big armored Demacian in the room
From {{champion:10}}'s bio > Kayle fought in many battles, flying at the head of the growing militia and imbuing the weapons of the worthy with her own sanctified fire… {{champion:10}} to {{champion:86}}: "You seem worthy Garen. Now prove it."
: My Only Request for Rework Pantheon's Lore
The Pantheon fanbase has been **incredibly unimaginative** with regard to Pantheon's new lore since it's rewrite. The only suggestions that have ever been given any second thought are "_Bring back Atreus_" or "_Keep Pantheon_" nothing in between or anything otherwise have been given the time of day. Based on Morde's lore rewrite with his rework and based on the last roadmap, Pantheon is in for a lore rewrite as well. The only thing we are certain of is that Pantheon's character will remain an Aspect/ be involved in the story of Mt Targon's gods. I am looking forward to Pantheon's new lore because I both enjoyed the story of Atreus and was looking forward to the development of Pantheon _**as a part of**_ Atreus' character. > since Atreus' personality and values were not in line with Pantheon's. Atreus was chosen by Pantheon based on not only his strength but his personality and values included.
: Pantheon up for the next VGU
At long last!!! "The story of how one man fought back against the gods", I had a feeling they'd pick back up with Atreus' story, interested to see where they take it however. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Sker,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=QhwXZOcB,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-06T03:09:14.627+0000) > > Fair enough but, did you think they would be so far away from each other? I'm not surprised. Taliyah's lore had hinted at it and that was in 2016, just before I started playing League.
And in Pantheon's short story even before that.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wrathof300,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=a08AAGvu,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-01-29T16:50:28.873+0000) > In actuality, Pantheon is the only Aspect we see overwrite the host's individuality at all. The only other influence we see from the Aspects are Leona's ability to feel the Aspect's rage within her (but it doesn't compel her) and the Aspect of Twilight's restriction of Zoe's powers (which makes sense since the Aspects are the source of they abilities). Pantheon is the only one we've seen the story explicitly acknowledge that his personality is completely gone. However, the writers have claimed before that the other hosts do have some of their personality mixed with their parasite, at differing values. Go look up the background information dropped when Taric was released if you wish to hear them say it themselves. In any case, it's fairly hard to determine just how much is changed since once your personality is altered, how would one even know their personality was altered. All they would sense is a sudden shift in priorities, and maybe if they reflect on past actions they'd find some incongruities in how they handled themselves. Which, woulnd't you know, is what happened at the end of Leona's lore when her entire personality shifts in like 2 sentences. And as another side piece of evidence that the parasites have some handle on their host's personality I submit Zoe. Her mind, her personality, her being seems to have been frozen for 1000 years. People don't work that way, they develop and change gradually over time. It seems pretty obvious to me that something is keeping her acting the way she was back when she first got her powers. Something is stopping her from aging and developing as a person.
{{champion:142}}: "Nobody has to grow up unless they want to. Orrrr maybe they do, I don't though." I'd argue that it is more reasonable that Zoe simply does not wish to grow up, she chooses to remain a 9 year old, this is evident because it is also hinted throughout her VO that she is capable and understanding of her role as Targon's herald, but chooses to play around. The lore of the Aspects heavily emphasizes that it was some destiny or characteristic that lead them to the point in their life where they chose to become an Aspect. Their personalities being altered is counterproductive to this setting, on the other hand if their personalities were amplified so to speak, the qualities that they are chosen for are amplified in their host, this would make more sense. Otherwise, it literally would not matter who they choose to become their vessel. The Aspects would all simply resort to Pantheon's tactics. Leona's revelation is explained to be, due to an her acquiring new knowledge and a greater understanding than she did before. A drastic change in her ideals at this point makes sense since this is the contrast between Leona knowing the truth, vs the Leona that was the paragon of the Solari way, it emphasizes the wrongful teachings of the Solari.
: I'm sitting on 20 gemstones and there is nothing attractive enough to spend them on
The quality of the skins are not a problem, _imo_. I like the direction they've taken by making the gemstone skins mainly Hextech skins, something I thought was going to be the theme when they initially released Hextech Annie. However, the limit of the system in this regard, unless you _really_ like the skin, most gemstone skins may not interest you unless it's one for your main/ favorite champ. Carlos teased a new reward system linked to skins coming later this year, around mid-season, perhaps it will also make use of some of your gemstones, idk.
: They didn't want to rename panth for his lore rework i guess. But after his rework Atreus might be gone, gone since the name is Pantheon not Pantheons host Atreus
The champion's name may not be Pantheon's host, Atreus, however the story we are told is Atreus, the Pantheon. I think the reason for this, is because the story they intend on telling with Pantheon, is Atreus' not the Aspect's, whether or not we will learn of anything about the Aspect is in the air.
: If you go by what Rioters have said outside of the lore it starts to make a bit of sense what they tried to do and where they originally planned for the story to go. When the Pantheon lore dropped and let's just say there was dissent on the boards over the quality and direct of that lore Rioter Jaredan basically tipped his hand and straight said "Atreus's story is not over." However, when discussing Targon lore it has been repeatedly said that the Aspects choose how much of the host's individuality to overwrite. With Taric being stated to be the one with next to no influence of the space parasites on his personality, and Atreus being completely taken over. Leona and Diana somewhere in the middle. So, it's probably more accurate to say that Atreus is now trapped inside his own body, rather than just being dead with his spirit in their version of heaven. This actually follows with a completely different Rioter (Waaarghobo) claims about the afterlife in Runeterra, essentially stating that there is no heaven the souls get reincarnated. As to why Pantheon is following what Atreus wanted to do originally, well, the boy wanted to go to war and kill things. He's possessed by a spirit that is known for going to war and killing things. There's gonna be some overlap there. As to a more meta textual reading as to why the lore focuses on Atreus. Well, probably because the writers didn't even know what the space parasites completely were when they wrote the first round of Targon stories. According to Diana they're some group consciousness collective thing. According to Pantheon and Leona's lore they're some part of the beings the human Targonians worship as gods, which is somehow connected to the stars. According to Sol they're not gods they're this magical species of enslaving upstarts that built a space empire off the back of forcing him to do their dirty work and murder his friends and siblings. It isn't until over a year later with the Darkin rewrite that we get the idea that they're actually all tied to some fundamental function of the human experience. To me this reads like it's just been finalized what they're actually going to be doing with the story. So of course Pantheon's lore couldn't focus on the space parasite itself.
Really well written, I agree with mostly everything here. Perhaps Atreus, being trapped within his own body, him being chosen by the Aspect of War (his goals aligning with the Aspect's) and the writers not knowing where they were ultimately going with story the Aspects and Targon Prime, are connected. If we look at Pantheon's character solely from what is told in the bio, who or what the Aspect is, doesn't matter to Pantheon's character, since the story revolves around Atreus. What we are watching unfold is essentially the consequences of Atreus' own Faustian bargain. While we may in fact learn of the Aspect's background and their goals along the way, those things may not be relevant to Atreus' story. The story they wanted to tell was never about the Aspect of War, it was about Atreus' obsession driving him to make the choice that he did. Perhaps this is why Jaredan had teased that Atreus' story was not over, because it never ended, whereas many of us readers were under the impression that this meant, Atreus' story will be re-continued later on. **** > However, when discussing Targon lore it has been repeatedly said that the Aspects choose how much of the host's individuality to overwrite. With Taric being stated to be the one with next to no influence of the space parasites on his personality, and Atreus being completely taken over. Leona and Diana somewhere in the middle. In actuality, Pantheon is the only Aspect we see overwrite the host's individuality at all. The only other influence we see from the Aspects are Leona's ability to feel the Aspect's rage within her (but it doesn't compel her) and the Aspect of Twilight's restriction of Zoe's powers (which makes sense since the Aspects are the source of they abilities).
GreenLore (EUW)
: Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the whole "Atreus is dead"-thing is actually one big lie. They focused way too much on Atreus in his lore to just throw him out of the window and it wouldn't be the first time that riot gave us false information based on someones elses misconception(the people who see him and instantly "know" that Atreus is dead).
I agree, it may be similar to "Petricite's nullification of magic", there may be something unknown about the Aspect that would suggest that the interpretation "Atreus is dead", isn't fully accurate.
Rioter Comments
: The Essence of War
To be fair, the concept doesn't even have to extend to other mythologies, there are numerous Greek heroes and demi-gods to draw inspiration from, allowing Pantheon to remain mainly Greco-Roman inspired, if that becomes a concern.
: That gives me an idea as well. If the host really doesn't matter and Pantheon (The Aspect) just takes a bunch of hosts at one time because he prefers to use his hosts more as a bludgeon instead of like a scalpel, when it comes to problem solving, than what does that mean for gameplay as well as story? https://assets1.ignimgs.com/2018/08/30/meepo-thumb-1535672319351_1280w.jpg LoL has its' Meepo
This is also a really great take on what could be accomplished with this thematic gameplay wise!
Rioter Comments
: Pylas is now a letter off from Sylas. He might get retconned...
I don't see this as a reason to retcon him, otherwise why bother to name any non-champion character in the lore. Besides if he were swapped to take Atreus' role as the Aspect in the lore, his champion name would be Pantheon.
Rioter Comments
Gilgayu (NA)
: Who is your favorite champion?
{{champion:80}} I really love the '_gods among men_' and '_gods atop Mt Olympus_' thematic Targon has going, and of course his spartan aesthetic. I'm looking forward to see how he fits into the new Targonian aesthetic we see on {{champion:142}} {{champion:136}} {{champion:44}}, once he is reworked. **** Similarly I'm looking forward to any Targonian aesthetics in the {{champion:10}}{{champion:25}} update.
: The Tales of Ornn are not outdated, these are just tales which shouldn't be taken too literally. For example, Serylda speaks which already has lost her voice at this point. However, like almost every tale, there is some truth in it.
I agree, it's entirely possible Serylda used sign language and the story just quotes it as "_this is what she had to say_". Also there is a time skip in that story in which Avarossa could have lost her hearing and Serylda had her voice taken, it doesn't even mention Lissandra being blind. Lissandra's bio gives no frame of reference for when the sisters lost their senses relative to each other.
: If I could just pick anyone at all? Ignoring what any Rioter has ever said? Garen. The “Knight” champion doesn’t look like a knight . Doesn’t play like a knight. And has a pretty boring playstyle and voice over that’s only notable in that people made memes about screaming “Demacia.” That’ll never happen of course.
I also would love to see a lot of the Demacian armor and weaponry displayed on Universe to come to a realization on champs like {{champion:5}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:59}} .
: soraka's most recent bio
I do not think {{champion:16}} helped the Targonians trick {{champion:136}} into servitude. However, whether she'd considered herself one of them or their ally is up in the air. Based on her lore, I don't think she would necessarily have stopped them or resent them for it. I have a theory that the Targonians overthrew the Celestials, much like how the Greek gods overthrew the Titans. I believe the Vastayan tribe they are referring to are the Marai, {{champion:267}} 's tribe, however we'll have to wait and see, it could be a new tribe indeed.
QMighty (NA)
: I really wanna see them split Panth and Atreus up so both sides of the Panth fanbase can have what they want, with Atreus being the traditional Spartan with Spartan armour and Pantheon taking on a new host and becoming the cosmic horror that the fans of the new lore want (I assume these exist). Plus it could create some cool story opportunities between the two characters.
Define "_cosmic horror_", because _if_ they split the 2, Pantheon is still the Aspect of War, and I'd prefer they focused on the Warrior Aspects scattered throughout the universe connected by the [_"The Essence of War"_](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/aurelionsol-color-story/) and develop a militaristic background behind Pantheon. If I had to give Atreus a real motive to go against Pantheon (_he **chose** to become an Aspect after all_), I would make Pantheon's new host, Pylas' body, it was preserved at the peak of Mt Targon.
: Well, sadly for you, and I don't mean this in any condescending or insulting way at all, Riot will most likely go for a more celestial fantasy route with Pantheon to make him fit into Targon. Which means starry sky cloak, comet spear and the like, all to make him match the idea of this spacefaring empire of the stars.
When I look at {{champion:142}} and {{champion:44}} I can see their connection to Targon, {{champion:136}} and the celestial realm, they don't appear _otherworldly_ imo. The starry cloak, was described in his short story, and his spear is starstone, as a Targon champion celestial VFX are to be expected. However, in terms of visuals I believe a "modernization" is a better description of what to expect, especially if the art from Soraka's story is anything to go off of.
: Alright folks, this is going to be a big one; Let's talk ALL the current Tier 1 VGU priority champs
On {{champion:102}}, I would make her human form naked... wait, wait don't leave... I meant that in a literal sense. Wait! Come back! Basically have her dragon scales and bones be her clothing in human form, her Dragon skull armor, let that be her own skull from her transformation, she'd be naked the in the same sense as when she is in dragon form. Then add some Demacian flare onto her, the blue and white may not work, but maybe golden armor that melts and cools each time she transforms in a burst of flames. I'm personally a fan of {{champion:35}} being a possessed puppet from one of the lesser kingdoms of Valoran opposed to him being another demon. I hope that the {{champion:31}} VGU and future void monsters incorporate the new Void aesthetic, they wouldn't be 100% accurate to the concept art but I think they can come decently close compared to the current ingame aesthetic. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlDTgKFU8AAnYbr.jpg
: Alright folks, this is going to be a big one; Let's talk ALL the current Tier 1 VGU priority champs
> And are we going to get something akin to the recent Venom movie with a similar dynamic between host and parasite with the aspect Pantheon and Atreus?! This has been my take on Pantheon since his lore update. As a Pantheon main, I'm hoping for character development that allows us to immerse ourselves in the stories of **both** Atreus and Pantheon, simultaneously if possible. Just as it matters who is under the Venom symbiote, whether its Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson, similarly it should matter that Atreus is Pantheon's current host. Questions I'm interested in are: "_How does Atreus' ambitions and ideals affect the actions Pantheon takes while in his body?_" "_How do they line up with Pantheon's own goals?_" and of course "_What are Pantheon's goals?_" **** Many already have taken sides as to whether they think killing off Atreus and having Panth find a new host will be a good way to permanently kill a character, others want Atreus free of Pantheon's control, and the Aspect dead if possible. However, we know nothing about Pantheon, to support these decisions. I'm not against conflict between Atreus and Pantheon, but it should have greater weight than "_Pantheon's perspective is all that matters for world building_" or "_Pantheon is a body snatcher and hence should die_". Otherwise their death would be meaningless. **** I think majority of Panth mains will also agree that Pantheon deserves a sidearm that helps expand his kit's skill ceiling. Perhaps he is able to manipulate the starstone in his spear to change between weapons. I'm also interested in the numerous Aspects of War scattered throughout the universe, they give meaning to the name, Pantheon.
DiPiStyle (EUW)
: Quiz time: try to guess what these champions have in common
I'm assuming the Demacia event with Sylas' release will lead into the Kayle & Morgana update and round out the Demacian champs. **Demacia:** {{champion:37}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:5}} It was said that the Freljord bios would be updated at the end of Ashe: WARMOTHER's run. **Freljord:** {{champion:113}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:34}} As you stated, we may receive the Yordle update this year. However, I think there is a possibility Rumble and Corki are moved to Piltover and updated with Heimerdinger as Piltover champs. Similarly Ziggs might be updated whenever they return to Zaun. **Bandle City:** {{champion:42}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:117}} **** Void lore may come whenever Cho'gath or Kog'maw receive a rework, or they may surprise us with it this year. Noxus and Zaun will likely be returned to in the future. **Void:** {{champion:31}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:421}} I'm betting that Alistar's lore will remain focused on his enslavement in Noxus, and not with him being free just yet. **Noxus:** {{champion:69}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:12}} **Zaun:** {{champion:29}} {{champion:27}} **** These are the ones you need to worry about, see all the others can be placed into a category and potentially updated, these few we're not sure when they will be updated. If I had to say, Bard being a celestial may see an update whenever we return to Targon, and Jax and Zilean, may be updated as Icathian's whenever they do the Void lore. **Runeterra:** {{champion:54}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:432}}
: I Don't Think Sylas Thought Through His Revolution
Sylas isn't trying to find a place for mages in Demacia, he's trying to tear down the current system and start over. So if Noxus conquers Demacia, and he and his mages have place in their new kingdom he'd welcome it, perhaps he's actually counting on Noxus, a pro mage country stepping in and essentially aiding his side of the conflict. On a side note, J4's capture at the hands of the Noxians was removed from Garen's bio. If Noxus actually attacks this would be a good reason to expand that part of the lore into a short story.
SSmotzer (NA)
: You do have to keep in mind that there is no confirmation that Kayle or Morgana are Targonian or from the Celestial plain. That pattern behind the wings is also reminiscent of Shuriman, Ionian, and even Blessed Isles imagery. From the way Rioters are describing Kayle, she hasn't "Ascended" like how Taric, Pantheon, Zoe, Diana, or Leona "Ascended." Kayle has to unlock her Ascension over time, much like how we see Kayn unlock his Ascended form by Ascending into Shadow Assassin Kayn. And if Aatrox is to believed, she used magic to cheat her way to Ascension, again, much like how Kayn cheated the Ascension process by stealing Rhaast's Ascended power. And Kayle and Morgana being tied to a Darkin wouldn't be the first time two people shared a single Darkin, that honor would go to Varus, and if the Darkin they are sharing is Valeeva, Varus's sister who is obsessed with justice and has pale skin with glowing purple veins, it would make narrative symmetry between Varus and Valeeva. But hey, that's just a theory... a game theory, thanks for reading.
> You do have to keep in mind that there is no confirmation that Kayle or Morgana are Targonian or from the Celestial plain. That pattern behind the wings is also reminiscent of Shuriman, Ionian, and even Blessed Isles imagery. Indeed, however, we know for a fact that they are going to be connect to Demacia, and the Crown of Stone is currently the only canon method of a Demacian attaining celestial powers. These patterns are also present in the designs of {{champion:142}} {{champion:136}} and {{champion:44}}, these are Targonian designs. While the Blessed Isles also features circles in their designs, triangles and diamond shapes are equally a key visual absent from the teaser, Ionia focuses over smooth flowing lines and curves due to it's connection with nature, however compared to Targon's heavy use of circles they fall short, similarly Shurima. I personally do not think a Darkin is the only explanation for Kayle's unusual ascension however, all theories are fair game until Kayle and Morgana are revealed I suppose.
Naalith (NA)
: Does anyone know if this art asset is currently in-game or could it be from a second new champion?
Reav3 (NA)
: Sure, current Champions we talk a lot about internally for VGUS are {{champion:36}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:106}}
As a {{champion:80}} main I'm looking forward to his VGU the most and as a Targon fan in general, I have to say, the second {{champion:10}}{{champion:25}} teaser image is absolutely stunning, 11/10. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} I'm most excited about the lore direction for Pantheon, I hope both Atreus and Pantheon are equally developed, I know most persons treat them like Kayn and Rhaast and have already taken sides, but I view them like Kindred 2 _aspects_ of the same champion. **** I noticed in the artwork for Soraka's lore, Pantheon's helmet now shares the design of Kayle's helmet... that isn't anything worth speculating about is it...? Not that I have but you know... not that I haven't.
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Wrathof300

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