d00mface (EUW)
: What champs would you like to see interact with one another that haven't?
{{champion:15}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:145}} and {{champion:163}} all in one big Shuriman story. Specifically how Ezreal's interactions with Sivir and Kai'sa. Perhaps even an encounter with Renekton or Pantheon, or both. I would love to see a {{champion:80}} vs {{champion:58}} match up. Although, I believe that of all the Shurima related champions, we're more likely to get {{champion:80}} vs {{champion:266}}. Which will still be very hype and a conflict I hope they continue to build on with Pantheon's rework sometime in the future.
: Shadow Door has my vote. But it’s close. They’re both very good. But Cage looses points for the silly mental image I get of a common soldier finding Aatrox’s 20 ft monster of a sword and thinking “Yeah, I can use this.”
The sword grows in size to match Aatrox himself, as shown in his teaser trailer. Therefore, in the story Cage, because Aatrox went back to being sealed, the sword had reverted to a size where it could actually be picked up by mortals.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wrathof300,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=c0EG5ztG,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-12-09T21:36:35.192+0000) > > One thing do I hope is changed about the lore, is Riot's -and the community by extension- overemphasis of the Void. The Void is often paraded as the '**biggest**' threat, among all of the threats to Runeterra. > > I really liked the {{champion:161}} update, it fleshed out the Void as a force of nature, and was the first time I was actually drawn to the Void as a region. > The only thing I disliked, that it was at the expense of the Frozen Watchers. What is the point of having the Void be influential in multiple places at once if the stakes remain the same. How is the Void attacking Icathia any different than the Void attacking in the Freljord? > **** > Imo, this is also feeds the disappointment in {{champion:145}}. While I admit that her concept was not perfectly executed "_she defeats the conflict of the Void_", basically summarizes how much people overemphasize the Void, her entire concept is that no one has been able to survive among Void creatures like her. That what I'm saying the whole time. There is no need for the Void the leak from 1000 places at once while in reality it will never fully get Runeterra. And in the same time It caused Frejlord to lose an enormous part of its lore. Basically it lost what made the Frejlord the Freljord And Kai'sa is just idk honestly... They literally were building up hype for a void update for 2-3 years if I'm not wrong and we got female ironman...
> There is no need for the Void the leak from 1000 places at once while in reality it will never fully get Runeterra. Although it bothers me, what would really please me to see done with this, are different '_stakes_' for the different areas the Void takes over. Sort of like the yordles, how each yordle reflects the region they live in, the voidborn should gain _**different attributes or abilities based on the region the Void corrupted**_ for example if Demacia ever got consumed, perhaps the voidborn there would absorb the petricite creating a breed of voidborn immune to magic, different attributes for different regions so that the Void attacking a place means something more to the story than just death. > And in the same time It caused Frejlord to lose an enormous part of its lore. Basically it lost what made the Frejlord the Freljord I wouldn't say that, the Freljord didn't physically suffer from the change, [The Eye in the Abyss](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/the-eye-in-the-abyss/), is proof of that, but what they lost was their uniqueness in having a villain dedicated to their region. Riot definitely prioritized connecting them to the rest of Runeterra when rewriting the Watchers.
: What do you personally dislike about the lore ¿
One thing do I hope is changed about the lore, is Riot's -and the community by extension- overemphasis of the Void. The Void is often paraded as the '**biggest**' threat, among all of the threats to Runeterra. I really liked the {{champion:161}} update, it fleshed out the Void as a force of nature, and was the first time I was actually drawn to the Void as a region. The only thing I disliked, that it was at the expense of the Frozen Watchers. What is the point of having the Void be influential in multiple places at once if the stakes remain the same. How is the Void attacking Icathia any different than the Void attacking in the Freljord? **** Imo, this is also feeds the disappointment in {{champion:145}}. While I admit that her concept was not perfectly executed "_she defeats the conflict of the Void_", basically summarizes how much people overemphasize the Void, her entire concept is that no one has been able to survive among Void creatures like her.
: Hmm. That could be a nice explanation aswell. I mean, they would get greedy because they were ascendants and were like "Hoho! I'm stronger than everyone" and they probably abused it.
> Shurima had also fallen when they finally returned from the war. I made a small mistake here, apparently the war ended long before Shurima's fall, but everything else still stands. https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/the-legend-of-the-darkin/
: It is said that the void corrupted the minds of the ones that fought at Icathia and the those ones ended up being the Darkin. Which doesn't make sense since we have seen what a void corruption does to beings like Rasho from Nami's comic.
"_Darkin_" was a collective term used to describe the Sunborn that fought among themselves, not specifically Darkin corrupted by the Void. We saw 3 Darkin affected by the Void in Twilight of the gods, Syphax, Shabake and Shabaka, who we physically and mentally corrupted respectively.
: To be honest PSTD could be a nice explanation on why Aatrox and the rest of the Darkins were battling against humans. Thanks for the whole explanation of Zoe, I didn't know there were many hosts of the Aspect of Twilight. By the way, are there many Pantheons? :P
With regard to the Darkin War, as you pointed out their PTSD played a role, however Shurima had also fallen when they finally returned from the war. To their knowledge the royal family was completely wiped out, the only humans they saw "above" themselves, they were god-warriors and each of one them viewed themselves equally worthy of continuing Shurima's legacy. This is what started their infighting, and eventually regular mortals got caught up in their battles, and became their servants and slaves. As they had very little means of opposing the Darkin until Targon intervened.
: But in the short story The Cage, we learn that being sealed in a weapon is pretty much a fate worse than death. Even the few seconds Aatrox was in his sword are described as agonizing. Would this mean that Rhaast chose that kind of fate willingly? I get not wanting to die, but that's pretty much the worst kind of immortality to pick instead.
I see Rhaast as such a demented being, to me this seemed like something he'd naturally do, all for the sake of destruction and chaos.
: *leans back on chair*
_leans forward on chair_ > Maura sensed with complete clarity that to climb these stairs would be committing to something irrevocable, something final. How many other artists had stood where she was right now? How many had lifted their foot and placed it on the first step? > How many had come back down? > How many had turned and walked away? ^Literally me right now.^ Even if it were off the mark I hope at least it was an interesting take.
Rioter Comments
MS exceI (EUNE)
: Its not that i disagree i just cant see how its supposed to happen. In the rewritten lore rivens company was the only one who transported the chemical weapon. Since riven agreed to do so one could say she was a part of the problem. Its nice that she learns about peace in ionia but that has little use in a nation dependent on war. Riven herself also doesnt seem like someone who cares enough for the functioning of a nation. She joined the military to have a better life in other words for personal reasons. She didnt bother to understand how things in noxus really were, she just cared for glory and wanted to belong somewhere. When it all was stripped away she got a second chance in ionia which she was more than contempt with. Its hard to see her suddenly caring for noxus even if she matures and becomes more experienced. She would never be taken seriously given how she cut and ran. And from outside she will never understand noxus. Noxians on the other hand would never welcome her back without a good reason. She also has connection to only 1 noxian champ...
To be quite honest it's apparent you understand the Noxus lore in a manner I could only hope, so while I may be looking from the outsiders perspective, you're looking from the shoes of a Noxian and these are valid points and I hope they are addressed when Riven's lore reaches that point. I can literally see {{champion:122}} asking {{champion:92}} these exact same questions. **** One thing I would say, regardless of {{champion:122}} I think she will end up back in Noxus' military because of {{champion:50}} and {{champion:7}}. Mainly Swain, because he is the type of character that surrounds himself with persons that would be equally dangerous enemies as they would be useful allies. Darius and Le Blanc are perfect examples, they are their to keep him in check, and potentially can steal power from him if he no longer lead the Noxian vision, Darius' story is written as though Swain beat him to the punch by killing Darkquill first. So Riven could return to Noxus, as a powerful warrior and a potential threat to Swain, should he end up going down the wrong path or should Le Blanc and the Black Rose become a force beyond his control. Swain has a quote I think summarizes Riven role in a future Noxus. {{champion:50}}:_ "All roads lead to Noxus, but all visions... to Demacia"._
Atgo (EUW)
: I agree with almost all of your post. _However_ > [{quoted}](name=WAAARGHbobo,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6JWHilrN,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-25T19:49:19.926+0000) > > Disagree. > > Riven still represents the best of what Noxus is and could be. Currently she is being _tempered_ and reforged by Ionia. Ugh, I still hate this comment.
> Disagree. > Riven still represents the best of what Noxus is and could be. Currently she is being tempered and reforged by Ionia. Ah, my sentiment exactly. Building up Ionian homes could teach her many things, as we know the Ionians live in tandem with nature, this could easily be turned into a plot point for her magic becoming more powerful, imo. **** Her sentence was to help every single person in that village, Yasuo was someone from that village affected by the invasion. My prediction is that after she's helped the townsfolk she will go in search of Yasuo to help him make amends with himself. Hence sending her on a journey across Ionia, meaning she still ends up wandering. She hated what Noxus was becoming and what it was making her, however,it's not about her magically wanting to be Noxus again. It's about her wanting to make Noxus a better place, that's what her old lore about and that's what ~~i think~~ it will be about when she decides to go back. Swain's version of Noxus is willing to make a monster of the empire, and this is where eventually characters like Riven will come to play, assuming she's back in Noxus by then. However, I understand the points made and yes, **currently** Riven does seem that way, but I think that's just a sign of the long journey ahead for her character.
: I'm not talking about Zoe. I'm talking about Neeko, though I see the error (but I mentioned Sho'Ma, definitely a Neeko thing). That said, it doesn't matter how the story was framed, it still placed a happy go-lucky character in the middle of a murderous catastrophe. Neeko ALREADY has had catastrophe tied into her narrative, so adding more is excessive, and doesn't lend understanding as to why a character who has experienced so much death and destruction would continue to be a happy plucky character. And I get that the world is cruel. Our world is cruel too. But our world is also not 100% DEATH DESTRUCTION DAMNATION MURDER MURDER MURDER KILL IT ALL WAR! It's got tragedy, it's got sadness, but is also has happiness, pleasure, love, peaceful places, places of joy and adventure. Runeterra is very much like our world, but Riot has a STRONG problem with creating a narrative that might accentuate or focus on happy, tranquil moments, or the spirit of adventure in the wild because Riot keeps reverting back to stories steeped in death and blood and war. Runeterra has to have happy places. It has to have peaceful respites. Even in war torn countries and places, there are ways you can find life and enjoyment. Neeko is an individual who is extremely capable of capturing a spirit of adventure and joy in every location, and her story could have been about her exploration in Kumungu and her meeting of Nidalee, or it could have been about her travels anywhere and her sense of spirit and desire to become things. Instead, it was about how she inadvertently was the center of a murder party in a compound. Riot legitimately has a problem here with how their narrative is handled. They hit the darkness and war and death WAY TOO MUCH in the world, and it's become entirely too lopsided. They haven't touched the carefree, happy places or peaceful moments, at least not without immediately causing bloodshed and tragedy, and it's only serving to limit the scope of the world and discredit any credibility the world may have as a fully fleshed out story setting.
In my opinion, Neeko's origin feels more like a mystery than a catastrophe, as we are never given any sense of connection to her home land prior to its destruction. Otherwise, this simply boils down to Riot's choice of story, opposed Neeko's actual reaction to the scenario.
: Here's the thing though, Neeko can taste emotions and ascertain how people are feeling from their sho'ma. She is by her very nature an empath. She should have easily been able to detect that all of those people were scared and terrified by her actions, and done something else. Even naïve people can put that together. This story is yet again Riot's inability to release happy characters without dropping them into bloodbaths, tragedy, and other fucked up situations. I don't understand Riot's massive boner for all of these fucked up stories about characters who are light and jovial.
I think that you are ignoring here that {{champion:142}} no longer perceives death the way it is perceived by mortals. To a mortal death is the end, whereas to Zoe, its just the transition from your physical life to your spiritual life. She sees it as a cycle not as a the end. **** Edit: Likely similar can be assumed about Neeko, as we see her communicate with her clan members' sho'ma after their deaths. Who is to say that every single one them were scared, certainly there would have been a mix of emotions such as anger and malice, which Neeko would not have sympathized with and even attempted to quell. **** Likely Neeko's story is to be somewhat comical, as all of the Noxians end up killing **themselves**, and Neeko was **powerless** to stop them, and they would have resorted to killing each other regardless, as seen where they target their commander first purely because they didn't like him. It is a testament to how cruel the rest of Runeterra is, just because you have a happy character doesn't mean everything is lucky charms for them, because the rest of their world and sometimes their own actions are not that forgiving.
: > [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=qVRjUu5K,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T17:39:52.055+0000) > > Ekko calls them "Pilties" in his interactions. ...as a slang word. On the map, under Piltover, one of the little "info-boxes" are called "Piltovians" (meaning I was wrong about calling them Piltovans). https://map.leagueoflegends.com/
It was previously confirmed to be [Piltovans](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/aBbx7OZR-clarification-request-piltovian-or-piltovan) however, and the in Progress Day story they are referred to as, Piltovans.
: Exactly. Because she liked changing=== she (and her tribe) we attracted to an animal spirit that is good a changing.
These 2 comments puts it into perspective a ton of a lot better, thank you for the clarification! **** Also, {{champion:497}}, horns and ~~vaguely~~ griffon all in the same paragraph... I need more of this in my life. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
  Rioter Comments
Cetri (NA)
: Is Blood Moon Aatrox's Face...
As Camille Ferros states its and alternate universe, so it may not be 100% accurate to what he looked like in the canon timeline (e.g. hair colour and length). However, I don't think Riot would have just given him a face when a regular blood moon face would have worked equally as well. Although, it is also possible that this is a representation of the face of Aatrox's current host in canon timeline, and not a representation of Aatrox's himself.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wrathof300,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=JEVBGBui,comment-id=0001000200000000,timestamp=2018-12-04T21:49:08.711+0000) > > When you say "good guys", you're referring to their juxtaposition to the Void right, or something else? Juxtaposition? That wasn't the word I'd use. I'm referring to them being the number one enemy of the Void, which is the biggest threat to both Runeterra and the entire universe. Thus, if you are directly opposed to the thing that everyone is opposed to, you are a good guy.
Juxaposition the contrast between 2 things. The Void, the interstellar all consuming darkness to Targon's ever expanding heavenly empire, but I digress. **** > Thus, if you are directly opposed to the thing that everyone is opposed to, you are a good guy. Okay, I understand.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wrathof300,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=JEVBGBui,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2018-12-04T21:20:20.001+0000) > > What in particular do you like about the Targon lore? 1. Space. 2. It's based on Ancient Greece. 3. It has a cool name. 4. They are the main "good guys" of League, but aren't Mary Sues.
When you say "good guys", you're referring to their juxtaposition to the Void right, or something else?
: *Cries in Targon* Seriously, everyone hates Targon for some reason. I don't get it.
What in particular do you like about the Targon lore?
: Ahh I get it now. And here’s what I would say to that one. I don’t think Pantheon needs to be the figurehead of a side to be about equally important. I think it depends far more how much influence the characters actions will have on the story. Depending on how the story progresses the seemingly inconsequential leader of some soldiers can turn into the most important character of the story. If it ends up revolving around his decisions. If the war of the Sun and Moon does end. Well then you have the story of what to do with him after a war. Did his side win? Then he can become the military arm of the new regime. And tensions growing between the military and political leaders is a staple of history. What happens when his new leader inacts policy he disagrees with? If his faction loses, then he’s a deposed general with an army of loyal warriors at his side. Perhaps he spends some years as a mercenary leader fighting for Noxus or Demacia all the while waiting for the opportunity to return home. Or perhaps make it more internal. He is power behind the throne of the Rakkor. But what if the current king dies and leaves his weak son as king. A son that hates Pantheon for the influence he held over the rightful rulers of Rakkor and tries to have the living legend removed. There are a lot of places to take a character after the story is supposedly done. But I don’t really worry about that much. Since at the rate of the lore development the War of the Sun and Moon could take over a decade.
It's not so much that I think he needs to be a figure head of a side to be important, however admittingly when you state the prospects of the story and what could follow, it makes a lot more sense and is much more appealing. Unfortunately, as you stated we currently don't know how long Riot would draw out such a story arc.
: I mean you certainly can be critical. I’m not a writer. My ideas are probably crap. However, I don’t see the Leona lore as internal conflict because it isn’t written in any way to indicate internal conflict. Internal conflict is usually expressed through trepidation or second guessing yourself while your mind fights to decide what the correct path to take is. Leona doesn’t do this during her most violent outbursts. She actually fantasizes about killing Diana before the elders give her then order to do so. Her subsequent revelation is then also not presented in any sense of self actualization or reflection. The space parasite just shows up and changes her mind.
Yes I am being critical, however, not because I am trying to find fault in your logic, but because I am trying to understand you're point of view and understand why you'd come to conclusions that I wouldn't or why you'd interpret things differently.
: Then I’m afraid I don’t know what you mean by “in a solid state.”
Using {{champion:2}} for example, last we heard of his connection to the Freljordian civil war he was sided with {{champion:113}}. However, this was because he wanted a noble death, Olaf's agenda in the whole matter was not based on the motives or actions of Ashe or Sej, but solely because of his own goal. This is what I mean by "solid state" he has something he wants, based from his own personal conflict. **** Making {{champion:80}} a leader in this version imo, makes it even more obvious than the old lore that he is just third wheeling in on a conflict between Leona and Diana. It feels as though the only reason he is involved is because of how much more important the conflict is between Leona and Diana. What is left of Pantheon's character when this conflict between Leona and Diana is removed? Especially compared to the invasion of Ionia where we see how each individual is affected on a personal level. However, this is just _my opinion_ on having Pantheon revolve around/ choose sides in a conflict between Leona and Diana.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wrathof300,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AUUQxs0O,comment-id=000d00010000000000000001,timestamp=2018-12-03T22:26:58.329+0000) > > I don't think you really achieve this here, at least not in a way in which she is truly torn between the 2. She just does the typical nobilitiy thing in both situations, until you reach the end where she is now forced to adhere to the Solari hierarchy, because the leadership of the Solari is thrown upon her. She does the typical noble thing and it backfires on her in both situations with the loss of her friend and then her teachers. This would result in second guessing herself and the tension within her to start trying to be more Solari, which is enforced by her new position as leader. > The entire reason she was sent to the Solari is due to her going against the Rakkor tradition, then she later adheres strictly to the Solari way showing where she tried to get it right at her second chance at life. What's abrupt is her sudden change in her mindset toward Diana's execution/ punishment due to whatever revelations dawned on her. Oh yes. The current Leona lore is terribly written and involves the character switching her personality based mostly on what the plot demands. At first she was noble. Her nobility got her recognition with 0 negative consequences. Then we get a time skip and she becomes an executioner. Her bloodthirsty behavior is then proven correct when Diana kills her teachers. And then she gets possessed which makes her not want revenge anymore for reasons that haven’t been explained in 2 years. And then in her short story we see her holding the Sun Aspect back from being the bloodthirsty one it had just changed Leona from being. It’s a mess. Mine is pretty straightforward. She starts noble. She acts noble to mixed results. She gets raised to the Solari but loses a friend. That’s enough for her to continue to act noble but to have a twing of guilt about it. She still continues to be noble for Diana and it results in nothing but destruction and war. This gives her a reason to start second guessing her stance on being honorable to be explored further throughout the story. If you don’t particularly like that. Well, ok. It’s my bullshit made up on the fly fanfic nonsense. Feel free to make your own.
I'm not criticizing your version or anything, I just find it interesting that you view the current lore as Leona "switching between personalities", opposed to viewing it as the internal conflict she has about being noble at heart but wanting to adhere to Solari tradition and belief.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wrathof300,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AUUQxs0O,comment-id=000d000100000000,timestamp=2018-12-03T13:19:39.910+0000) > > Fair enough, although I'd prefer to leave Panth's lore in a solid state. Then have him physically encounter Diana later on, which would then introduce conflict in his decisions. Well since my primary goal is to remove the space parasites completely from the equation and instead focus on people and religion I can’t keep Pantheon’s current lore. > In that case why, remove the conflict from Leona's story, you've basically guaranteed her hesitation at Diana's trial. Rather, than have her know Diana before hand, to achieve her inner conflict, have her react basically the same as the new lore, since these actions and Solari mentality also help justify Diana's outrage, but have her hesitate in this version. Not because she knows Diana personally, but rather because for some reason she saw herself in Diana, remembering that at one point in time she also went against the traditions and beliefs of her people. This way in the heat of the moment when the audience is convinced Leona is convicted to kill Diana, which makes sense that she should be, she hesitates, applifying the notion that it was her hesitation that got the elders killed. Because my goal was to set up a conflict to be explored by developing the story. And pitting Leona’s inner nobility and desire to protect against her adherence to the Solari hierarchy. In the current lore she just adhered to the hierarchy. Then gets possessed and suddenly her belief system changes to no longer be that. Which is pretty boring. My bullshit fanficing creates the noble character has her fail to balance her desires. And then created the split of duty vs goodness in a way that she can now be developed to go either way. Choosing her path with her own actions. Though while I think having Leona never see Diana before could also work. I think it weakens Diana’s inner conflict and makes the setting kinda unrealistic. She’s an acolyte in the temple Leona protects. They must have met each other before. They live on a bloody mountain. There is not a lot of room to support sprawling structures where people could go their whole lives without seeing the rest of the people in the same building as them.
> Because my goal was to set up a conflict to be explored by developing the story. And pitting Leona’s inner nobility and desire to protect against her adherence to the Solari hierarchy. I don't think you really achieve this here, at least not in a way in which she is truly torn between the 2. She just does the typical nobilitiy thing in both situations, until you reach the end where she is now forced to adhere to the Solari hierarchy, because the leadership of the Solari is thrown upon her. > In the current lore she just adhered to the hierarchy. Then gets possessed and suddenly her belief system changes to no longer be that. Which is pretty boring. The entire reason she was sent to the Solari is due to her going against the Rakkor tradition, then she later adheres strictly to the Solari way showing where she tried to get it right at her second chance at life. What's abrupt is her sudden change in her mindset toward Diana's execution/ punishment due to whatever revelations dawned on her.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wrathof300,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AUUQxs0O,comment-id=000d000100000000,timestamp=2018-12-03T13:19:39.910+0000) > > Fair enough, although I'd prefer to leave Panth's lore in a solid state. Then have him physically encounter Diana later on, which would then introduce conflict in his decisions. Well since my primary goal is to remove the space parasites completely from the equation and instead focus on people and religion I can’t keep Pantheon’s current lore. > In that case why, remove the conflict from Leona's story, you've basically guaranteed her hesitation at Diana's trial. Rather, than have her know Diana before hand, to achieve her inner conflict, have her react basically the same as the new lore, since these actions and Solari mentality also help justify Diana's outrage, but have her hesitate in this version. Not because she knows Diana personally, but rather because for some reason she saw herself in Diana, remembering that at one point in time she also went against the traditions and beliefs of her people. This way in the heat of the moment when the audience is convinced Leona is convicted to kill Diana, which makes sense that she should be, she hesitates, applifying the notion that it was her hesitation that got the elders killed. Because my goal was to set up a conflict to be explored by developing the story. And pitting Leona’s inner nobility and desire to protect against her adherence to the Solari hierarchy. In the current lore she just adhered to the hierarchy. Then gets possessed and suddenly her belief system changes to no longer be that. Which is pretty boring. My bullshit fanficing creates the noble character has her fail to balance her desires. And then created the split of duty vs goodness in a way that she can now be developed to go either way. Choosing her path with her own actions. Though while I think having Leona never see Diana before could also work. I think it weakens Diana’s inner conflict and makes the setting kinda unrealistic. She’s an acolyte in the temple Leona protects. They must have met each other before. They live on a bloody mountain. There is not a lot of room to support sprawling structures where people could go their whole lives without seeing the rest of the people in the same building as them.
> Well since my primary goal is to remove the space parasites completely from the equation and instead focus on people and religion I can’t keep Pantheon’s current lore. I was speaking in reference to your version that you wrote, nothing in relation to the current lore. Just my opinion on how I'd handle that particularly. Regardless of the space the tenants of the Solari occupy, meeting someone and getting to know them are 2 different things. However, you raise a fair point.
: Ahh, but what traditions to stick to? In my mind, the sign of an interesting dynamic character is when you can see what they want and yet you can't tell what they'll do because the options all lead to different things he wants. As Faulkner said "The only thing worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with itself." In my outline, Pantheon** is** a threat to either Diana or Leona because he's just that good and he leads a powerful faction. The traditions of his people (if developed in my made up bullshit fanfic writing here) could be presented to both respect the Sun gods and the Solari, but also as a warlike people who wish to expand. Siding with the new religion of the Lunari could make the Rakkor the most powerful force on Targon, but it means spitting on the religion of his youth and probably murdering his friend. Siding with the Solari would mean sticking to his faith and traditions, but he has to make peace with Leona and he may not be emotionally equipped to do that. Pantheon should still be the master of his own fate, and a growing force not to be reckoned with by all on Targon. But I don't think he should start out by saying "I'm going to just kill both these sides." At least, not at first. That could definitely be a way that the lore could develop. Peoples switch sides in wars and new factions arise and fall.
Fair enough, although I'd prefer to leave Panth's lore in a solid state. Then have him physically encounter Diana later on, which would then introduce conflict in his decisions. **** > In my mind, the sign of an interesting dynamic character is when you can see what they want and yet you can't tell what they'll do because the options all lead to different things he wants. As Faulkner said "The only thing worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with itself." In that case why, remove the conflict from Leona's story, you've basically guaranteed her hesitation at Diana's trial. Rather, than have her know Diana before hand, to achieve her inner conflict, have her react basically the same as the new lore, since these actions and Solari mentality also help justify Diana's outrage, but have her hesitate in this version. Not because she knows Diana personally, but rather because for some reason she saw herself in Diana, remembering that at one point in time she also went against the traditions and beliefs of her people. This way in the heat of the moment when the audience is convinced Leona is convicted to kill Diana, which makes sense that she should be, she hesitates, applifying the notion that it was her hesitation that got the elders killed.
: It’s no secret that I hate the space parasites, and the Space Empire, and well everything that has to do with Targon. If I could change anything I’d go to the original story of Targon, with some modernization updates of course (The Rite of Kor is dumb. It was always dumb.), taking the changes I like. First, I’d say Targon is a mountain range, rather than a single gargantuan mountain that somehow houses 3 tribes of people, some of which who live at the top but don’t wear shirts despite the cold. I’d fill the mountain range with a lot of various tribes, that behave something like city-states. With the Solari acting as the hegemonic religious power that keeps everyone in check. The Rakkor are just one, admittedly powerful, group, but not near the only one. I’d go back to making Leona an actually good person, no questions. She can still have her flaws of course, but she wouldn’t be a zealot executioner. Pantheon definitely wouldn’t be a body hopping space parasite. Start the lore with Leona and Pantheon (rename him if you have to), with the Rakkor. Keep Pantheon’s drive toward perfection, but also traditionalist and arrogant. Keep the trouble with him and Pylas, but have Leona be his only friend. Make it so that they’re the same age (the new lore is kinda hilarious in how poorly the Pantheon and Leona timelines fit together.) have Leona be the only person who actually tries to be friendly to Pantheon. Have Leona let the monster kid go, as new lore has. Which makes him finding out the Leona broke their traditions a heartbreaking decision for Pantheon to keep the traditions of his people, or his only friend. He chooses his people. They fight, divine intervention. Leona is the chosen one. Leona goes to live with the Solari. Leona and Pantheon both grow up. Pantheon becomes a soldier, Leona becomes the leader of the Iron Solari (or whatever the elite warriors of the Solari were called, I'm too lazy to look it up). Diana enters the scene as a young Solari who likes the Moon. Have Diana and Leona know each other better. They lived in the same temple after all. And keep up the idea of Leona as the rather matronly protector of the weak. She may think Diana is the Targonian equivalent of some weird Goth kid that pushes everyone away. But she’s going to support the friendless regardless. Add in some feelings about getting it right this time, instead of blowing up in her face like Pantheon and you get some decent pathos here. Set up the drama with Diana revealing a secondary religious authority on the mountain. Have the Elder’s command Leona to kill her. Leona hesitates, which gives Diana the time to use her own powers to kill the Elders and flee. Driving an actual change in Leona where she sees her hesitation as what caused the death of her leaders. Now with the religious and political authority of the mountain killed. The mountain basically turns into chaos. Every hostility that was kept under wraps with the Solari Elders in charge explodes. Groups that were already pretty much in power with the Solari stick with them. While those who see the new religion of the Lunari as a means of gaining new authority on the mountain join Diana. Each of the characters has an arc and central tension they have to work on in relation to the others: Leona has the tension between her inner nobility, but the guilt of failing her leaders. She may believe that Diana has some points that should be addressed, but also that Diana needs to face justice. Diana has her new religion and desire for overturning the social order. But she is still at her core a lonely child that just wants people to accept her, and knows she is up against one of the only people that did. And she sees how her new religion is being warped by the other Targonian Tribes to grab power. And Pantheon is between them. The growing military leader of a faction that needs to decide once more between his traditional belief in the Solari. While also wanting to promote his people to a better position with the new Lunari faction. He also has to deal with his tangled feelings of driving off his only friend of his youth. New champions can come out to explore the other factions within the Targonian Mountain Range. If I want to really dive into this Peloponnesian War analogue that I’ve more or less built. We got the money faction, the Imperialist faction, the faction of tribes that the Rakkor basically enslaved to allow their warrior culture to flourish. All of which could be represented with a champion to add details to the chaos of the modern situation. And we have an excuse to make a champion based on Alcibiades. And any excuse to have a character like Alcibiades should be taken. A good healthy dose of political intrigue, war, ruminations on religion, and personal drama. Keep the conflict grounded and focused on the characters. I may be the only one. But I’d definitely prefer that to the empty mysteries of the space parasites.
> **And Pantheon is between them.** The growing military leader of a faction that needs to decide once more between his traditional belief in the Solari. While also wanting to promote his people to a better position with the new Lunari faction. He also has to deal with his tangled feelings of driving off his only friend of his youth. This is the main thing I dislike about this and which was only problem I had with the old lore, I dislike the idea of Pantheon ending up as a middle man as a result of Leona and Diana's actions. He should be a proactive character, if he's a character that stuck to tradition when he had to battle his best friend to the death, his immediate response should be again to stick to that same tradition. Presenting himself as a threat to even Leona, that the Rakkor would take over the Solari's position, should Leona falter in her leadership again. Otherwise, this would have also made for a good change to the old lore as well.
Moody P (NA)
: How powerful are Targonians and Ascended compared to Gods/Demigods?
I'd say it depends on the Aspect/ Ascended. For example I'd argue {{champion:89}} being able to handle {{champion:516}}'s flame but I'm not certain if I'd argue the same for {{champion:80}} and {{champion:142}}. Whether Leona would win idk, and we haven't seen enough from Panth to give him a win either. {{champion:142}} can be extremely dangerous depending on how she uses her portals. So an unexpected win from her perhaps. I'd give {{champion:266}} the benefit of the doubt since he as claimed to killed demigods in his past and he can manipulate his stature, to grow to the size of the demigods. If {{champion:106}} attacked him with the Ursine, the Ursine would just be fuel for Aatrox's blood magic now as a Darkin.
: I would say something about Shurima but it's already perfect. Azir is rebuilding it Taliah will convince Azir through negotiations to do some kind of Magna Carta (like a consitution to protect civilians in case Azir or his descendants go rogue), Nasus is amazing and one of the greatest strategists ever and will most likely train a reformed army of Shurima composed of proffesional soldiers, Xerath is a very interesting antagonist. So what I would change in Runeterra would probably be, remove Targon. Literally fuck Targon. But make it so Ascension still exist and is mostly the same. Just yeet Targon off Runeterra.
> So what I would change in Runeterra would probably be, remove Targon. Literally fuck Targon. But make it so Ascension still exist and is mostly the same. Just yeet Targon off Runeterra. Why remove Targon?
: Why does Targon care about Runeterra?
Yep that's the biggest mystery and problem behind the faction rn. > Why did they want to teach them how to make ascended? This is just my theory, however, imo possibly one of Leona's predecessor's an Aspect of the Sun, was of Shuriman origin, and upon journeying to Mt Targon and being granted power, they chose to return home and share this power with their people, hence the Sun Disc. Not necessarily that Targon just handed it to them. Of course the most common assumption is that the Targonians intentionally gifted the Shurimans with the Ascension ritual so that the Ascended would have acted as Runeterra's first line of defense against Targonian enemies such as the Void. > Why possess their mortals and imbue them with powers? If they are so powerful, why does Soraka give up her celestialness to become a mortal like them? Nowhere is their individual power stated, it could be that they require a physical form to manifest their powers. Its possible they function similarly to the Venom symbiote, you rarely see a powerful symbiote on its own, its typically occupied by a host. Or even similar to Avatar, where there was no bending in the spirit realm. Soraka currently has no lore, so its entirely speculation that she could be an Aspect.
d00mface (EUW)
: After Ashe's comic....
I would like to see a TARGON comic alongside a {{champion:80}} VGU next year. Possibly a comic series focusing on the different hosts the Aspect of War has inhabited over the years and throughout the cosmos, fleshing out his character this way. Perhaps better insight into what happens to the persons that become vessels, and some story progression with the current host, Atreus (_**that doesn't involve his death**_).
: The objection to Leona characterization was never that it wasn’t logical. After all, we all know the horrors of persecution now. It was that the previous folk who like Leona had a different type of character in their mind that is just as logical. Remember when the Crusaders sacked Jerusalem, yes there were men who slaughtered everything in their wake trying to kill every Muslim and Jew they saw. But there was also Tancred riding around the city trying to bring every innocent under his banner for their protection and who wept when he saw that it was for nothing. For the persecution of the Jews back in Europe there was also the Bishop of Worms who had all the Jews in the city brought to his home for their protection and dawned the armor of his youth to defend them against the mob. Or even the story of the nameless Knight Templar that gave all who travelled his protection. The problem is the old Leona was that noble version of the paladin trope. The new one turned her into an executioner and a zealot. It makes sense. It fits the story the writers are going for now. But it wasn’t Leona.
Actually, I think it's also reasonable to view the story as that of a **paladin** raised in the ways of a **zealot**, a combination of tropes. Taking the interpersonal conflict from the old lore, that was between Leona and the Rakkor elders, and making them intrapersonal problems in the new lore. Leona being more passive-aggressive and kind in nature (similar to old Leona), but raised and surrounded by belligerent zealots all of her life. This also plays out in her short story with her Aspect: > Part of Leona wanted to give the power in her free reign; wanted to scorch these men to smoldering bone and ash. Their attacks had killed scores of people who called the lands around Mount Targon home. They had defiled the sacred places of the Solari, toppling sacred sun stones and polluting the mountain springs with their excretions. Its still the same concept of who Leona was in the old lore, with a layer of conflict added directly to her character. However, this isn't to say that its the same **old Leona**, because there is now the possibility of a decision to become more zealous in her ways, which was not a possibility in the old lore, and I think this is how the 2 versions differ, not that they are 2 different people.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wrathof300,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ptwB67Iz,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-11-29T21:36:55.980+0000) > > I don't think {{champion:89}}'s zealous nature is that blown out of proportion considering her upbringing in the Rakkor and the Solari. To the Solari the Lunari could be much more than simple heretics, we are talking about a history between to 2 religions where one **purposefully** chose to snuff the other out of existence. > > The Solari were not opposed to the views of the Lunari, their were opposed to _their existence_, imagine the ways in which the elders would have manipulated the Solari to cover up this dark past and slander the Lunari. I think Riot has laid the ground work for interesting stories with Leona and Diana to unravel the bad blood between the 2 factions, or worsen it. They didn't have to completely axe Leona's original lore, though. Clearly Leona 1.0 was of an entirely different disposition. Possibly naive in younger years, but very idealistic and driven. If we pause the lore at Diana's release, we have a lot of tension and possibilities that could have been explored. Let's say Leona was, say, 15 or so around the time the Sun decided to wake up and take a direct interest in the affairs of mortals. This god's first act after being asleep for X generations was to take the side of a young idealistic rebel and pacifist against the very cult that supposedly worshiped the Sun itself. So what happens when a sect is forced - due to a miracle - to acknowledge an Avatar who is against everything Targon and the Solari stand for? Give her the runaround, leave her in the dark? How long can they keep this up? What happens when the honeymoon is over? It's likely that Leona would initially take the Solari's account of Diana's deeds at face value, but in mere years or even sooner, I would imagine that this could lead to a crisis of faith, leaving Leona in a unique and very complicated position. That's what Leona 1.0 mains had to look forward to but never got. The lore update could still go in a similar direction eventually I guess, but 1.0 would've just about been forced to go there if it was ever going to make any sense overall. I'm just finding the Sun Vs Moon Ultimate Smackdown Hype thing really old and tiring. Even if the tension and complications were an accident, it was an accident that could've been followed through with.
I believe/ rather I'd like to hope the Leona lore is headed in the same direction and further rather than just a similar one. Something with much more depth than just a Sun Vs Moon Ulitmate Smackdown. With access to past knowledge and memories Leona may very well encounter her crisis of faith sooner than later as hinted at the end of her bio.
d00mface (EUW)
: Parties Across Runeterra
The Solari certainly may have some religious significance if not some cultural festivity with the Summer and Winter Solstices. Summer Solstice, the Longest day yet the Sun is furthest from the planet. The Winter Solstice, the Sun is closest to the planet yet it is the shortest day and longest night of the year, a clam before the storm maybe, by Solari interpretation. Perhaps the Solari would have festivities on the Summer Solstices and 'praise the Sun' whereas they may have more prayers on the Winter Solstices throughout the night to 'raise the Sun' back into the sky. Ancient Shurima probably had a ton of parties as well, maybe Carnivals where the people would dress up as the various Ascended and parade throughout the streets to celebrate their Legendary Sunborn warriors.
: Leona has changed........
I don't think {{champion:89}}'s zealous nature is that blown out of proportion considering her upbringing in the Rakkor and the Solari. To the Solari the Lunari could be much more than simple heretics, we are talking about a history between to 2 religions where one **purposefully** chose to snuff the other out of existence. The Solari were not opposed to the views of the Lunari, their were opposed to _their existence_, imagine the ways in which the elders would have manipulated the Solari to cover up this dark past and slander the Lunari. I think Riot has laid the ground work for interesting stories with Leona and Diana to unravel the bad blood between the 2 factions, or worsen it.
: So your criteria for defining a credible threat is that we LITERALLY show it destroying the whole world...? Was the Death Star not a real threat in 'Star Wars', because it didn't blow up Yavin 4? Were the Martians not a real threat in 'The War of the Worlds', because they were eaten alive by decompositional bacteria native to Earth's ecosystem?
In this case I agree with Warlord Dienekes, although I am well aware of their tendency to biased rationalizations of a concept to support their point of view. Strictly speaking on the Void, its main problem is, no matter when, where or how the Void wins, the results will be the same. _Void breaks out => the Void consumes everything. _ This is not threatening in the same way Noxus plotting to take over Piltover/Zaun is or the fact that a war could break out between Shurima and Noxus, because these things are "unpredictable" dangers. What would happen if Noxus got their hands on a stable supply of hextech? Will Azir unite Shurima to defeat Noxus? If Noxus conquers Shurima what does this imply for the rest of Runeterra? Whereas the actions of the Void have only been shown and implied to be, a simplistic pattern of consume and devour. While the Void received much needed depth with {{champion:161}}'s updated bio (good job here, although imo it was at the expense of the Frozen Watchers lore) it goes to waste if the results are always the same (meaning there are no stakes), the Void conquering Targon = the Void conquering anywhere else. As a Targon fan I've been waiting to find out the reason behind why Targon acts the way it does. They don't have to be the good guys or even righteous imo, I just want their reasoning behind enslaving {{champion:136}} and owning an intergalactic empire to make sense (to be able to see myself making the same said decisions if I were in their shoes), and with the Void (a force of nature) being their main antagonist this needs to have stakes attached to it, at least stakes that matter to the Targonians. _Demacia and their hatred of mages due to the Rune Wars is a good example._ **TLDR**: The Void only seems threatening when it is the BIGGEST problem on the forefront (when everything has already gone to shit), otherwise the threat it poses isn't very interesting. Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading.
Atgo (EUW)
: I believe that we will get a Soraka lore update with Kayle and Morgana, but well I did say that we would get a Soraka lore update with WW, Zoe and Akali release so... But anyway, so far those two quotes are all the lore we have about her: > A wanderer from the celestial dimensions beyond Mount Targon, Soraka gave up her immortality to protect the mortal races from their own more violent instincts. She endeavors to spread the virtues of compassion and mercy to everyone she meets—even healing those who would wish harm upon her. And, for all Soraka has seen of this world's struggles, she still believes the people of Runeterra have yet to reach their full potential. _________________________ > Kalan knelt, motionless and silent, as he waited for the seer to speak. She was a curious creature, violet-skinned, and with a pearlescent single horn growing from her forehead. Some may have mistaken her for one of his bloodline, the children of the Vastayashai’rei, but any of the kin would know otherwise. > > The seer was of a people older even than his ancestors. > > When she opened her eyes—those strange, kind, golden-flecked eyes that saw far more than they should—he saw they were tinged with sadness, and his heart sank. > > “You are faced with an impossible choice,” she said, her voice as quiet as the rustle of autumn leaves. > > “Then tell me what I must do,” said Kalan. > > “That is not for me to say. Two paths lie before you, but you can only take one. I warn you, though—both lead to tragedy and sadness.” > > Kalan didn’t blink. “Tell me.” > > “The first path. You fight the invaders. At the Placidium of Navori, a great battle will be fought. While it will be bloody, you will be victorious. You will be proclaimed a hero. You and your heartlight live in peace for many years. You are happy. And yet, you are destined to outlive both your cubs, who will be taken before their time.” > > Kalan took a deep breath. “And the other?” he said. > > “You fight alongside the enemy. You never see your heartlight again, nor your children. They call you traitor, and curse your name. Your path is one of darkness, and bitterness, and revilement. You will be hated by your kin, and despised by your invader allies. After they are defeated at the Placidium, you must stand vigil on the isle of Fae’lor, guarding over the place of dreaming. And there you will stay.” > > “And my little ones?” > > “They live. They prosper. If not in this land, then another. But you will never look upon their faces again, and if you ever deviate from this dark path, they will be lost.” > > Kalan nodded, and pushed himself to his feet. Sadness threatened to drag him down, but he suppressed it, pushing it deep inside himself. > > As he looked around, taking in the details of the seer’s shrine, he felt that there was something strangely familiar about it… a vague sense that he’d been here before, that he’d felt this awful sense of grief and loss more than once. > > He shook his head. To be trapped in this accursed moment forever? Now, that would be a fate far worse than death. > > “I am sorry, my child,” said the seer. “It is a terrible choice you must make.” > > “No,” said Kalan. “The choice is a simple one.”
It is also possible that she was the seer mentioned in Pantheon's short story. > “We come with no ill intent, I assure you,” the leader continued. “We merely seek wisdom.” > “Your tongue is forked, serpent,” said the lone warrior. “You seek the blood of the **_Seer_**. Turn aside, or be slain.”
: > [{quoted}](name=Wrathof300,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WwfJw6LN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-11-24T23:27:09.956+0000) > > {{champion:127}}'s lore states that the time of Avarossa, Serlyda and Lissandra was long before Shurima and by extension the Fall of Icathia. The Watchers now being the Masters of the Void means that the 'Great Void War' is in reference to the war between the Watchers and the Iceborn, when the Watchers first invaded the Freljord in the time of the 3 sisters. > The transition from Freljord to Ionia is also a common journey we see both {{champion:427}} and {{champion:163}} do, opposed to straight from Shurima to Ionia. Very interesting, although it is really strange that it is common knowledge The Watchers and Ice-born are the void in Runeterran history.
Although Lissandra would have tried to erase her involvement with the Watchers, if that invasion resulted in the migration of hundreds there'd be no way to could completely make everyone forget it happened. At best she could manipulate the stories to misdirect any speculation of her. Hence why the Frostgaurd are fully aware of what lies below in the Howling Abyss instead of Lissandra trying to hide it from them and forbid them from going down the Abyss, instead she actively sends them to see for themselves and check, misdirecting any suspicion in the process.
: Theory: The first Ionian humans were Icathians
{{champion:127}}'s lore states that the time of Avarossa, Serlyda and Lissandra was long before Shurima and by extension the Fall of Icathia. The Watchers now being the Masters of the Void means that the 'Great Void War' is in reference to the war between the Watchers and the Iceborn, when the Watchers first invaded the Freljord in the time of the 3 sisters. The transition from Freljord to Ionia is also a common journey we see both {{champion:427}} and {{champion:163}} do, opposed to straight from Shurima to Ionia.
: I talked about this in an earlier thread. I WANT a fully fledged Pantheon in the game but I know what Riot will do. A lot of story hooks in Mount Targon is nestled in the secrecy of the Aspects of Silver City Targon and to what extent they control the people of Targon through the religions practiced there. {{champion:89}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:142}} All the other Aspects are described as "still themselves, but not exactly human anymore" and have their own personal memories mixed in with hazy memories of the Aspect. As such from a story perspective they are ignorant narrators and we cannot glean anything about the silver city of Targon from them. A convenient plot device to maintain mystery. Pantheon does not have this excuse because he obliterates the consciousness of his host unlike other the Aspects and is just Pantheon. The dude from the sky. Who knows all their plans. And how they work. Riot can't just have an autonomous Pantheon in the game and refuse to tell the player what is going on, that would be cheap, but if they do tell us the Mount Targon region would have all its' information available and become bland, so the convenient thing to do would be to bring Atreus back, but then that's just a cop out. Lose-Lose-Lose situation. I do like what you propose though. Having both in the game, Atreus as the playable character and Pantheon as a story antagonist would allow Riot and lore junkies to have their cake and eat it. It's not a cop out anymore it's an interesting story hook now that calls back to two recent cRPGs that I enjoyed recently: Pillars of Eternity 2 and Torment: Tides of Numenera. Torment is centered around a guy called the Changing God a man who has effectively lived forever by creating lifelike artificial bodies and transferring his consciousness between them for millions of years. The funny thing is that once he leaves these bodies they begin to develop consciousnesses of their own and become autonomous. In the game you play as the last body the Changing God inhabits and after developing a consciousness of your own you go after him for any number of reasons. The game actually sold pretty poorly, it has very simplistic boring combat that seems rushed and it was a Kickstarter that had an entire third act of the game cut due to time and budget constraints. What I love about it though is that it was one of the purest RPGs ever created. So much agency in how you define your character as they are essentially an infant in an adult body, a "clean slate" and the game has one of the coolest "morality" systems I've ever seen that also interacts with gameplay. I would love to see Atreus confronted with this situation: abandoned by the very god he used to revere now aware that he was never nothing more than a pawn and knowing he has to do something to wake the people of Targon up to the situation going on. The other side of the coin is that now Pantheon is no longer a character played in game but a story character. I always found it interesting how different he was from the other Aspects. He is a bit of an outsider. He isn't based on a celestial body but a more earthly concept like war, and he takes complete domination over his hosts instead of leaving them on autopilot. It's not far to suggest that maybe up there in the sky things are not as unified as one might think... In Pillars of Eternity 2 the God of Life and Rebirth: Berath, takes control of a massive crystal statue and starts walking across a massive ocean destroying everything in his path. You as the player become a servant of the other gods who disapprove of Beraths' decision to manifest on the material plane of existence and tell you to sail after him and bring him down. Wouldn't it be cool if Pantheon disagreed with the Aspect of the Sun and Moon, The Protector and Twilight and decided to take control of the situation to accomplish some ulterior motive? Maybe something having to do with the looming presence of Aurelion Sol? A vessel given new life and a god gone rogue. A VGU like this would not introduce the problems inherit in keeping Pantheon as the focus or just Atreus but these two stories together might be something worth telling.
> The other side of the coin is that now Pantheon is no longer a character played in game but a story character. This doesn't have to be the case, hence why I suggested he took control Pylas' body, essentially Riot would release Atreus as a new champ alongside the Panth VGU. Similar to Torment as you pointed out, but both the Panth and Atreus exist in game.
Rioter Comments
: Atreus would have no powers tho he would just be a good warrior (which I like but I doubt Riot would do that)
The problem with Atreus and by extension old Panth (after the removal of the IoW), wasn't their lack of physical power, but 'political' power. Even if Riot creates Atreus as a new champion that managed to break free of the Aspect of War, his story is still going to be intertwined with the Aspects for him to be a 'important' character in the affairs of Mount Targon. Because the people that actually have any clue about what is going on are the Aspects [{{champion:80}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:142}}] and this is not because they are 'supposedly' powerful beings. Another example: Trynd and Olaf, both I would consider 'regular' warriors similar to Atreus. In the over-arching Freljord story you immediately think of Liss, Ashe and Sej, because they hold the 'political' power in that situation, they're the ones that have a vision for the Freljord. Trynd is just _**on Ashe's side**_ and similarly Olaf _**sides with Sej**_, the importance of Trynd and Olaf come from their own _individual stories_. That isn't a bad thing at all, it means even after the Freljord civil war, Trynd and Olaf have stories waiting for them or that they don't have to be restrained to the Freljord. In Pantheon's case, Riot made him an Aspect to elevate his political power in **Targon's story**, rather than have him be a _**side character**_ in Targon story ({{champion:44}} falls into this role, leaving to go protect Valoran), because they wanted Pantheon to be a character important to Targon.
: Tell me your favourite champion, why, and how you want Riot to develop their lore.
{{champion:80}}: I'd like to see some middle ground between him being an Aspect and a Spartan be achieved. When the Institute of War was removed he became obsolete in the Targon lore. Leona and Diana both possessed 'political' and physical power, whereas as Pantheon was purely physical meaning it boiled down to who would he side with? By making him an Aspect they elevated his story to a place where he has equal 'political' weight in the Targon lore. I love both Atreus, since he is the perfect version of Pantheon's old lore, and Pantheon the Aspect, because I believe this persona brings potential to the character that Atreus alone cannot.
: thinking about it... Hercules is often shown without a shirt or with very light armor, so taric fits there! Its a popular culture greek myths aesthetic, at least for pantheon and taric.
I also took into consideration the foes they may be fighting. Not only do the Rakkor and Rahorak have to deal with neighboring tribes or barbarians, but also mythical creatures. If these creatures can easily tear through your armor, you would prioritize agility over being able to tank a blow.
GreenLore (EUW)
: Of course it wasn't one sided(otherwise Kha'zix wouldn't have let Rengar live),but the end result is still that Rengar was crippled in that fight,while Kha'zix was appearantly able to completely recover from his wounds.
Rengar doesn't seem inhibited by single fatal blow Kha'zix managed to land. Assuming his new eye actually works I wouldn't consider him crippled at all. In the end the real reason Kha'zix survived is because he was the one that ran for his life not Rengar, at that point in time, having only 1 eye is probably why Rengar couldn't pursue him.
GreenLore (EUW)
: Well as far as we know Rengar only really fought a voidborn once and considering that he lost an eye,while Kha'zix emerged unscathed I'd say that its not sure if Rengar is really on par with a voidborn(and the voidborn vary greatly in power anyway)
While Rengar's new lore excludes Kha'zix's condition after their encounter, I doubt he left unscathed. Also if Kha'zix's current placeholder bio is anything to go off, it definitely wasn't as one sided as you make it seem. As well I'd say they are probably both at greater levels of capability now, compared to their first encounter.
: Since Kayle and Morgana are apparently going to become affiliated Targon...
Personally I think {{champion:10}} and {{champion:80}} will be the first 2 Targon Aspects that see eye to eye. My bets are that {{champion:16}} is an exile from Targon, similar to the monsters that descend My Targon in a mist, and if she was an Aspect, she lost her power upon exile. Also that {{champion:432}} is the Aspect of the Wanderer but he doesn't like human hosts. **** Myisha isn't Zoe but probably a hint at what she could become, a previous Aspect of Twilight was also the reason for Serlyda, Lissandra's sister, becoming mute.
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Wrathof300

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