: {{champion:120}}{{champion:133}} : NO
Barso55 (NA)
: ya garen needs tweaking. does way too much damage building tank, and still too tanky when he builds damage, yuumi or not. not to mention silence and AoE and execute ult.
I thought I wouldn't ever see a day where people are asking for garen nerfs... that useless champion? The one that can only be played in low elo for 8 years?
: THIS is what a team fight should look like....
People always come and look back at older seasons saying this is what they want, when back then, it was not what the community wanted with justified reasons, and because time has passed, people and/or newer players forget what was so bad about certain stuff back then, even if the clip looks like something you'd wish would happen in modern league.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: The exact issue is this. They don't fix tank items, they just give tanks damage.
There is a fine balance between tanks and their damage. Seriously, if tanks lose damage, they'll have more trouble farming than they have right now, though of course they could always give their abilities % damage increase on minions and monsters only, but then good luck trading. Give them more innate sustain? Just opens them up to building damage items over tank ones. Buff tank items? Hello season 7 tank assassins. The most neutral buff you can give them, is increase cc potential, either by cooldown reduced, or longer duration, but even that has downsides if tweaked just a bit too much
: You guys ever have that one champion that you're really good with
Back in season 2 and 3, Fiora was like my best pick. Never really played her cause every game was a stomp when I did, so it was boring because of it
Sherogarth (EUNE)
: Few "FUN" facts about Armor and Armor Penetration.
??? Wouldn't you want armor reduction to stack multiplicatively? Unless you're saying that only the highest value takes priority, in which case I'm up for. Otherwise, additive reduction would makes things worse
: Let's Draw Back the RNG
6 assassin yordle team OMAE WA MOU SHINDEIRU
: "We [want to] reduce[] the rate of change during the season" - New001
Rate of change, meaning instead of having patches every 2 weeks, it might be patches every 3 weeks, they never said anything about how big those patches would be
Saezio (EUNE)
: So, how many times is it now?
Personally I think balancing around runes is more healthy then removing them and completely balancing champions around their kits. Odd I know. Aside from having to fine tune every champion from scratch again, I can't really explain in words why I'd rather have runes, so I'll be going around with my reasoning by examples, or just one... Before I begin, I have to say, as unfun many people find current League to be, I find that a large portion of league's champ pool are a viable choice to play, it's hardly ever, " here's 10-20 champs that are meta, play them or lose the game ", kinda situation anymore. It might've cost some fun for this feeling, but with that in mind... Let's take the assassin class, usually excel in short trades, and bursting down enemies if they manage to get on top of their target. If we had to keep this kind of fantasy true, while keeping a large champion pool in balance, what would we have to do? Well most assassins win early short trades due to being able to proc electrocute, so we'd probably end up needing to buff their early game damage, but doing that in turn would also increase their wave clearing powers, or making their poke ability strong making them a, why play mages when you can play assassins kinda situation. If we don't buff their early game damage, we could buff their resistances, but that could re-introduce the tank assassin trope that riot has already killed. "But if there are no more runes, everyone lost some damage, so wouldn't assassins still win short trades?", could be the case yes, but this is just talking about early game, what about late game? what about if the assassin is behind? After thinking about this example, as bad as it is, I now have words for why I prefer having runes around. They are both a snowball and comeback mechanic. They augment a champion to have an opportunistic upper ground, by having their rune ready, they can make stuff that's usually unfavourable be favourable. Some might not like it, because it might take away the weakness of a champion. Fair point, but it's opportunistic for a reason, it's not 24/7 increase damage or utility that one might've had if runes don't exists, which could otherwise make a champion too strong with said increase, or too weak without. It could act as the reason to being able to come back on top despite being behind, because your opponent's small misplay. While the enemy misplaying could get you on top, if the gap is large enough, that small misplay would mean nothing in a world without runes, making comebacks harder then it already is. But here, even that small misplay with a large gap in levels/gold could give you the upper hand depending on the rune/champion/match up etc. This small opportune moment, is IMO, the reason why so many champions can be viable, or at least, the gap between the strongest in the meta, and the weakest in the meta has shrunk, which is something I'd rather have if it doesn't cost too much fun, and I don't think it costed too much. Though hell would I know, there are so many balance leverages in League that even a small change could have huge ripples in the game. EDIT: TL;DR: Just read the last paragraph, otherwise. Runes are both a snowball and a comeback mechanic. They give opportunistic power to champions which can allow various champions to have increased damage/utility that might invalidate their weakness, but it's better than always having that increased damage/utility that could otherwise make a champion too strong or too weak. For what I see, balancing around runes allowed the gap between the strongest meta champions and the weakest meta champions to shrink, which I say is an overall good, even if it costed some of the fun factors in game.
: The Cd of Rek'Sai's cancelled ult confuses me.
Case 3 makes sense to me, since she actually lunges, which like most of her ult has actually initiated. The only thing that's missing is the damage. So if target died while lunging. IMO cooldown should begin. Case 1 though, should put the 10 second timer in place
Myrmiron (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9XE4WTas,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-31T23:06:46.621+0000) > > if you use the 1.5 sec root, you lose Q damage > > and btw Q has 10 sec cd now > > > this rework is garbage : W slow +E + Q > and you either oneshot a squishy > > or sit there and be useless for a while. > > Nice Oh rofl missed the 10s Q cooldown.
With 40% cdr, his highest damage combo now is Q E W E Q E, so late game the trade off doesn't really exists, but for early game definitely, personally, I think Q max is the way to go with this new ryze, even if his E is more spammable, his Q is required for the wave clear as E bounces don't deal damage anymore
Rioter Comments
: "Nerfing Yi in ways that help those who don't know how to counter him"
TMW master yi's Q now is basically Fiora's old ult, but better, because it can crit, and is not limited to just champions, and has a shorter cooldown, which can be reduced by AAs, though I really do still miss Fiora's old ult, at least now it lives again.... in master yi
: Each season without Cait/Trist/Sivir being top tier is a good season.
> [{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Pc%%%8A5,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-15T17:13:16.318+0000) > > Each season without Cait/Trist/Sivir being top tier is a good season. Where's vayne in that list?
: In your opinion, what are the unhealthiest champs, mechanics, strategies in the game?
Vision must be pretty unhealthy considering how little left there is of it in the game
: Sylus total ad vs bonus ad ratio conversion
I mean if you'd like to look at it in another way. Say that Sylus decides to fully uses talon's invisibility, since damage is applied twice, the total damage it deals is 180 + 100% ap Wukong's ult on the other hand deals 40 + 110% ap over the same span as talon's full invis duration, but the total damage over 4 seconds deals 80 + 176% ap
GigglesO (NA)
: You forgot the +36 ad that conqueror also gives. You could also make it variable if you wanted to account for lower levels than 18.
Eh, let's just pretend that the person with 35% penn has 300 ad total and the conqueror guy has 264 + 36 from conqueror and call it a day
GigglesO (NA)
: Here is for "Conqueror is just 20% penetration" guys.
Here's a desmos with the equations, couldn't think of the actual graph equation so deal with looking at some hard values https://www.desmos.com/calculator/jkmazzt5sm Edit: Actual graphs https://www.desmos.com/calculator/w8ggo6nimb Edit edit: If you'd like to see the damage increase in the graphs better, just multiply the % damage increase by 10 or 100
: I think season 8 was their year of trying to get things in order xD
They did say at the before season 8 or pre season 8 that they'd be breaking down the fundamentals of the game and make the whole game feel like season 1 in some sense, as much as complaints are valid from players, they did warn us before hand.
Rioter Comments
: Here is what people really mean when they say damage is too high.
Here's a few counter points about that screen shot of the past - players aside from the adc sometimes bought gp/5 items over getting actual items, and supports always gunned for them when they had excess money, otherwise they just bought wards. - Supports functioning with almost no gold felt pretty shit, it's why they were branded as ward slaves, not to mention the lack of support items that was A) Desirable, B) Actually an item the support can afford to buy, back then - Doing all ins and just trading during laning phase was pretty damn primitive which is why you'd never see that many kills in the early game in the old matches, heck even tower dives were pretty bad, no aggro juggling, people would flash out of turret range even though they were already at the edge and would survive like 3 more shots, they really only dove if someone was like 10% hp, that or if it was a 5 v 2 of the sorts - We haven't even taken into account the costs of each item back then too, we used to start with 475 gold, a single dorans blade at the that time was 475 gold, boots used to cost 350 and sheen at the time costed 1250, if we take a look at that corki's build, 350 + 1250 + 475*3 = 3075 a fight shorlty breaks out shortly after, and corki dies, which he ends up getting a merc treads, which used to cost 1200, so +850 and we get 3925 gold, I haven't even checked the start of the game if corki even bought wards or pots, so the gold seems pretty comparable to me ,compared to cailtyn in that game at a gold cost of 4300 with a 11 cs difference, I'd say the gold differences were a fair game. Sprinkle on like 2 kills there and boom, you're at 5000 gold 15 mins
: The last time you saw a team fight last even this long.....?
I find the comments here rather funny Considering this was season 6 when everyone complained all time high on damage. Everyone doesn't melt in 2 seconds? Tanks always get melted if 5 people focused them, look at poppy during that fight, she got focused by all 5 and died nearly in 2 seconds, if it wasn't for that alistar flash Q combo, she would've died. Aside from that one example you picked up... - Aside from ardent meta squishies could always get insta gibbed by assassins in under 1 second, the difference of then and now are assassins are less feast or famine, their playstyles are still that of feast or famine, but when behind, they still have their uses compared to before you weren't even a player when behind - Tanks always died pretty fast if they're focused on, especially if it's the whole team, especially if 2 of them were carries, the only difference between a tank being focused on vs a squishy, more resources are poured onto killing them in that short time which in the short time frame, would be a good chance to counter engage should A) the tank survives B) your team has good counter engage - ADCs could always 3-6 shot other ADCs and similar squishy enemies, BOOM crazy I know, "but but season 2 I never died so fast during lane", well trading back then was primitive, and the knowledge of all ins were the same. Ever met a cheese kill lane back then? Yea you died pretty much instantly even in laning, which is why it was a cheese, but higher elos knew how to avoid that, but it was also the earliest concept of doing all ins during laning, and if mastered without having to use cheese strats, the results are what we have now. Also we used to rush BT back in those days, not a lot went for a IE rush or the evolved BF to zeal item or what we have now as storm razor - Fun fact, a full build with a stormrazor is actually weaker than pre rework's full build with crit, even if you sold the stormrazor for a different item. That 50% bonus damage from IE does way more than a mere 10% conversion of true damage both against squishies and tank, aside from the increase pricing of crit builds, this is a major reason why crit adcs are hardly played - "Supports are dealing damage/are so tanky nerf pls", more like, we got proper income starting season 4, and through out many seasons, got more items that are meant for the low income support with a trade off. These damage items, or tanky items give nowhere near as much damage or tankiness as their carry or tanky class counter parts. - "X is Super OP and meta nerf him to hell or delete Rito pls". What's new? This has always been the case with this game, there will never be true balance, a nerf to one champion would be a buff to another, and vice versa, that's how the meta shifts. - There's also the one factor Riot has no control over which is player skill, which can easily make what other players thought was weak, broken, or what was broken, weak which would open Riot's eyes and discuss a fix, which won't necessarily be instantly.
: How to balance League of Legends Season 9
Actually Riot's track record for releasing new OP champs and reworks is much lower compared to season 4 and below, pretty much every single god damn champ was broken beyond relief... though they were also releasing more champions back then so of course there'd be more broken champs on release back then, that being said... About 3 of the champs you've listed weren't broken on day 1, it was the hot fix buffs that they accumulated shortly after was what broke them. For base stats, I've only researched the topic on adcs so far, but, when the stat adjustment first happened, adc's had an average of 5 ad more than before they got compensated, this is accounting for runes, and current rune bonuses, by that I mean, say lucian, with old runes and dorans, he'd start of with 74 ad, when runes reforged came out, with the same starting items he'd start with 79, now he's back to 75 since mid season, this doesn't account for stuff like absolute focus, or eyeball collection as they are either A, not permanent buffs, B needs to stack it over the course of the game, so it wouldn't make sense to compare them with it. In short, as far as adcs go, they don't have more AD than old runes/masteries early game. I can't say the same for others, but just from adcs, for AD, I'd assume that champions on average have 4-5 more AD with starting items
Aionius (NA)
: Is one tricking a good learning method to advance further knowledge?
On the other end of the spectrum, you can be a fill main, though you'd usually harm your micro performance in favor of learning how to macro efficiently, though I wouldn't suggest that either since climbing becomes more of a team thing for you, and takes more time than one tricking. The only good side I'd say would be you eventually learn to be able to pick up any champion and play them at a good enough level without much practice, usually with the exception of champions with high skill ceiling though, since they tend to be reliant on how good you are at micro
Midg3t (EUNE)
: You can repeat this all you want but if you dont make an example of yourself this post holds no value.
I mean he doesn't have to be the example right? There are people on youtube that post crazy builds, or doing something that's not normal for a champ and climb with them, and some of them, though rare, become meta at some point, earliest example I can think of is taking annie bot as a support. I'm a fill main, I main no champion nor role, and if I get many games in a row where player does poorly in one role, I start spamming that role until I get tired and go back to filling. Though to everyone d4+ won't see d5 as much of an achievement, it's still a feat to be able to climb this far
AjXtar (EUW)
: Big buff. They removed 0.5 sec from the channeling and removed the option to cancel tp if you are teleporting in a bad spot. Oh, and now it has 6 minutes cooldown. That 0.5 seconds will sure make a difference.
It makes a huge difference considering that 3.5 seconds used to be it's norm, but because people were able to respond to cross map plays too fast, it got nerfed to 4, then 4.5, that .5 seconds is a huge difference on whether or not you win or lose the fight, or save an ally or kill an enemy
Wolfeur (EUW)
: Yeah, so that might be a bug, and not due to legacy code
Bard's ult does do 1 true damage, it's not a bug
Wolfeur (EUW)
: Elise was after Anivia and Trundle. They got the technology™ in the meantime
: Firstly, buff tanks. Barring that, take the true damage out of conqueror; Conqueror is a core problem to why ADCs are so bad; why play an ADC when to get their true damage(which is less reliable, by the way, since its only on crits) they have to shell out 5-6k gold when you can play a bruiser and get it for free? :/ Conqueror needs to be reworked; the true damage should be removed or greatly reduced and it should become more like old Fervor of Battle. They could even remove PTA to free up the slot. Secondly, buff fleet footwork. Stop nerfing ADC's rune options; honestly Fleet Footwork being so horrendously bad is what makes it hard for crit ADCs who want to try and survive laning phase and scale so awful. If they were to return Fervor of Battle by replacing PTA and Conqueror with it, they could return some power to Fleet Footwork, allowing scaling ADCs a chance, if they're careful, to scale into the game while still providing early aggressor ADCs a means by which to apply pressure and do damage through early and mid. And while we're at it, change Lethal Tempo because, as a keystone, its insanely niche and you honestly give up a solid amount of both lane presence, damage, and sustain by going it over the other two options; is very much the weakest of the three options alotted to ADCs, in part because its so gated and it, again, rewards upfront burst. If they reworked it to be more like old guinsoos(ramping AS the longer you AA, better facilitating on hit ADCs such as Kog, Varus, Kai'sa, etc) instead of gating it behind a CD and making it an instant affect, it would be a more rewarding keystone to use. Especially since you can accidentally proc it. Thirdly, return ER to its crit iteration. I have no clue why they opted for this rework on the item as I felt that the crit version of ER was the most successful they've ever had. Prior to its crit rework, no one built it. It was an *extremely* niche item and on the same level as Zephyr as a sort of Noob Trap item. They reworked it and it suddenly was a viable pick on multiple ADCs, providing *much needed* CDR, Mana, and Crit to caster based ADCs such as Lucian, Corki, Xayah, Ashe, Varus, Sivir. Furthermore, it was generally a buy that scaled well into mid game but, due to it taking up an item slot, prevented many of these caster ADCs from building a second zeal. Many of them would fall off after midgame or fall back onto their own utility to stay relevant. After they reworked it back to what it was before crit, we're honestly back to where we started. The item is extremely *extremely* niche and killed off the crit build path for many caster ADCs. Furthermore, the ultimate passive synerigizes better with many bruisers as opposed to ADCs, aside from Lucian, who use their ults and disengage usually. Fourthly, make the jungle camps on the top side of the map spawn more often than the jungle camps on the bottom half. This forces the Jungler to choose between pathing badly to continually gank and four man bot or going top and farming there and putting more pressure on top and mid. Jungle pressure has a huge strangle hold on bot lane and the continual nerfs to wards does not help. Even if they didn't change jungle camp respawns, just returning sightstone to supports would be *massively* helpful. In the old days, if you were getting camped bot, the counter play was freeze at turret and have your support first item rush Sightstone; this gave them more health and allowed them to place defensive wards sooner and earlier. :/ Instead they turned support items and warding in general into yet *another* snowballing technique, when, in the past, it could have been used to decrease snowball. Fifthly, either remove or rework Storm Razor; this item was a failure. I don't know who at Riot sat there, looked at ADCs as a class, and said,"Yes, what they want is a guaranteed crit for just standing around doing nothing. That's totally what they need." Just what. Why? This item is so easy to turn into a DPS item. Either make it an "energized" passive so it stacks up on AA's and movement and stacks up faster with RFC(I can see why this is a no go, even with a greatly reduced critical damage modifier), or change it so that with each consecutive crit, the crit damage modifier goes up. It could start at like 120%(which is 40% less than the one guaranteed crit StormRazor has right now) or even 100% and then scale up by 10% for each crit after, capping at 250%. This would make the item scale better so its less of a dead end item(as it would benefit from the additional crit chance and AS provided by zeal items and IE) while taking away a lot of the burst and *rewarding* steady ADC DPS.
First off don't buff fleet, no one wants to go back to just farming for 14 mins in bot lane because dealing damage to the adc is useless in lane phase Second, stormrazor isn't really a failure of an item because of how it works, you can easily turn it into a non-dps item as well by nerfing the time it takes to to crit again, but to be honest, to me it's a failure for a different reason, and that's because some crit adcs I see no reason to rush it. I'd still rather run the old BF sword into zeal, or BF sword into greaves into a zeal item because I find it more worth buying them compared to getting storm razor, simply because when both crit adcs has 3 items, the one with IE + zeal item will do so much more than storm razor + zeal, the gold difference is a mere 500 gold between the builds, so it's so much more worth getting your late game damage much more early by sacrificing a bit of early game potential that isn't even that big of a sacrifice to begin with. TL:DR Stormrazor is a useless item for most crit adcs in my eyes which is why I call it a failure, not because it failed to address early game adc power.
Wuks (NA)
: [CLOSED] We're Recruiting Moderators for the NA Boards!
I lurk around the boards, but really only read the hot topics, guess it won't be worth it for me to sign up
: Everything is well said minus your last point. Even if damage hasn't changed "in a champion's kit" that much, damage has shot through the rough. Be it runes, itemization, or champions, damage creep has been happening for years. Do you remember "league of cleavers"? Lol. The current game, including last season, is that level of damage.
I should've added some notes about items as well, but offensive items have generally been shifted away from raw AD/AP in favor of passives, actives, or utility, this would mean damage from a champion is more opportunistic as say you need ludens max stacks to deal maximum damage, or gunblade active to deal maximum damage. Though that really just means damage has shifted to be first attack deal most damage, every attack after would deal less to a minimum, which is what Riot addressed in the post I referenced. I'll also pull this out from another comment I made in another post. New items aren't ever made to make a specific class stronger than they currently are, they're made so a class can get the stats and/or passives they want with a good efficiency. If they do end up being too strong, they nerf the champions or nerf the items themselves. Now I won't say that all items are healthy at all, but they are all serving the same purpose, being stat sticks with some passives that a class or certain types of champions want to get. As I've said, the only instance of damage increase ever came from the addition of keystones, damage creep is mostly an illusion, players have just gotten better, any time that there is an "increase" of damage relative to season 6 will be specific cases like right now with DH and increase of gold income. Just like league of cleavers, relative to season 2, damage was so high, they fixed it, and boom, damage was about the same.
Heos00 (NA)
: Well they changed the armor and mr in... season 7 i think? But with the old keystones and runes damage weren't this high until the new runes that increase the champion damage by a LOT, also everything riot does it's nerfing the resistances by doing them less gold efficient so i don't think the new DH and speed up of the game are the main problems, the feeling of high damage is from pre-season 8, then, they re-introduced resistances or decreased runes damage (i don't know which of them) but still its pretty high. If they just want a fast game make the cs giving more gold or some sht like that, or just make the blood event or nexus blitz always available
What do you mean by changed armor and mr?
Akumu (NA)
: This entire Preseason is a massive failure.
- DH is balanceable, they definitely put that reset to be similar to the old one, the biggest issue for DH currently is definitely the fact that if multiple people take it, once they poked someone below 50% HP, it's a free proc for everyone, even the ones that didn't do anything to help that, suggestion would be that there has to be a minimum cooldown before having a person's soul proc, say 25 seconds, that way they can't stack up on it, also remove the reset proc, but scale the cooldown to like 30 seconds late game keep the 45 seconds early. - The new bounties will need some tuning, it's legit the first patch it's been out so of course they'd need to get a better feel for it, it's currently making lower elo be worse because any lead you make will be taken away, and the mechanic definitely is seemed to target for higher elos, but right now I totally agree, getting leads are almost non existent, gold wise, which can be helpful for comebacks, but it feels less rewarding when you beat the enemy in a micro level or macro level. - The gold for turret plating is still up for tuning as well, again, it's legit been the first patch of preseason don't call it a failure from just that. The mechanic is mostly intended to make it so early grouping to push a turret can be more punished as gold is split between players nearby, so the individual lead is less, and they get a extra resistance temporarily that stack per plating destroyed in the last 20 seconds, and per champion on top of 40 resistances per plating destroyed up till 14 mins, it's definitely a promising mechanic so they just need to fine tune how much gold or how the gold will be split in the future - You seem to misinterpreting the "high damage", currently there are 2 things to blame, that is DH, and the speed up of the game due to how the new bounties work and turret plating. The only instance of an increase in damage ever in LoL's history is season 6 with the introduction of keystones, and that has carried on to today. The damage in a champion's kit generally hasn't changed over the [years](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/yTorNEcE-quick-gameplay-thoughts-august-3). While the introduction of keystones are controversial, I'm on the side that is thankful that they exist for one reason only, because champions that fall out of meta will still be viable to play even if you aren't a one trick. I know full well cause I've been a fill main for years, while it's always been rough to play champs that aren't meta, since season 6, they've definitely been much more easier to play, with the exception of the ardent meta, where shields and heals were so prevalent that burst wasn't an option at all.
: Ok wow. Damage is up? After all the complaints?
Ok let's take a look at the real reasons why damage is up... Dark harvest, 50 base damage at level 1 + 8 per scaling, they hot fixed that, I haven't played since the hot fix, but it's damage problems should be fixed with it, it's now only good early game, and get's outscaled by electrocute pretty fast, only beating electrocute in super late game situations For individual champions, Ez should be really favored this patch, since his ult no longer falls off in damage, that's a pretty big buff As someone else mentioned in this post, the new sources of income have also made the game increase it's pacing by quite a bit, aside from that overall damage has not changed. Riot should be looking in future patches should be looking in toning down the rewards, and the game shouldn't feel any faster than it did before this patch
: Damage too much?
As confusing as it is currently, but the amount of AD you get from running 2 adaptive force is still 12, which is the exact same bonus if you went with pairing of the following paths, sorcery, domination, inspiration. You get 20 AP if you're AP, which once again is the exact same amount of bonus as before, the only thing that has changed is the added 3rd path which increases overall tankiness on average as it's a pure defense path.
Kelg (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=PurpleKingCrazy,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=t2V4ZyXo,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-11-19T19:11:44.306+0000) > > {{champion:142}} + {{champion:427}} + {{champion:7}} + {{champion:163}} + {{champion:119}} > > (Okay maybe I was joking on the last two.) > > {{champion:163}} dna digivolve
Herlgar (NA)
: Evelynn's my favorite
Really? I prefer the teemo, look at that fur!
Moody P (NA)
: Tanks are much healthier when they do sustained damage than burst damage
So are you saying Maokai is no longer sustained or is still sustained? because his old ult to me was more burst than it is now, his current E does decent damage now but is still a skill that almost no one uses. He's always been someone that'd just jump on the enemy with W and spam Q while autoing. I don't see how shifting Nautilus's damage from shield to his E is considered burst considering that skill to be pretty spammable like maokai Q while dealing similar damage, to me Naut's damage is definitely more dps still over burst. I don't think burst like pattern of Tanks are inherently bad. Sion is the best example out of them, as you aren't doing any damage as you prepare for that burst, and it also serves as a zoning tool because how dangerous it is to get hit by that Q, if that Q dealt damage over time, it wouldn't make sense and feel less threatening, though it's CC is still a pretty big threat. The bad example of burst would definitely be Galio, as all his CDs are long, allows only for one rotation, and easily misses, doesn't really provide a threat to zone enemies. Galio's damage should definitely be shifted to more dps, by lowering the damage of it's abilities in favor of lower CDs. Though since that's the case, Sion deserves to have higher CDs as a payment for that burst.
SHerv (NA)
: Explaining Roles : How to know your best Role to Win. (For Ranking Up in Solo/Duo)
As a fill main I agree! Season 2 player too EHHHHHHH!!!!!!! I love me them fill mains. I don't have 5 accounts like you do, but throughout all ranks in each role I should average P2 or P1 with jungle being my lowest.
: it is official boys
But D5 is trash anyways I'm part of that trash If we can't get to D3, we are forever diamond trash
: Don't get me started on CDR. I have no idea why this game is turning into URF. Everyone has mobility. Everyone has burst damage. Everyone has ridiculously low spell cooldowns. Everyone can spam spells due to items and runes which make mana management a piece of cake. It's like this SIMPLE game was far too complicated and strategical so everything has been dumbed down. If you want CDR, for example, you should have to PAY for it by means of sacrificing runes or relatively weak items. {{item:3078}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3285}} just why do they have 20% CDR? They'd be strong with 10% or even no CDR.
As much as I hate the addition of CDR on all items, like I've said, the amount of raw AD/AP stats have been reduced, CDR has been part of this change to offset it. Even if it's not a reply meant for you, here's the thoughts given out from meddler that started this whole [conversation](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/yTorNEcE-quick-gameplay-thoughts-august-3) Everything he says about damage is entirely true, I've done that research before he even made that post by going to lol wiki and look at some champion's patch history, and items too as I attempted to make a fan made patch. I will repeat, all damage increases came from the introduction of keystones, items being added for a specific class is not made for making that class deal more damage, it's giving them easier access to stats that they'd want, if they do end up being too strong, they nerf the champions or nerf the items themselves. New items aren't ever made to make a specific class stronger than they currently are, they're made so a class can get the stats and/or passives they want with a good efficiency. Now I won't say that all items are healthy at all, but they are all serving the same purpose, being stat sticks with some passives that a class or certain types of champions _cough rageblade_ want to get. Sure you can say season 2 Renekton dealt less damage than season 8 renekton because season 2 renekton rushed sunfires into BT or something like that, but season 2 renekton could potentially always deal the same amount of damage as season 8 renekton (excluding keystones), it's just that season 2 renekton lacked the items to be able to do what season 8 renekton has, so they balanced season 2 renekton around whatever items they built back then.
AjXtar (EUW)
: Hahaha. I've been playing since s3, buddy. I never complained about the state of the game until now and what the heck are you talking about alistar combo? Alistar combo was strong top lane because of sheen and his combo. Right now his combo pretty much halves adc health at level 3. He never had that time of damage even when he was played mid lane as a mage. He had damage only when he was building damage and is exactly same thing for many other supports. They deal a crap ton of damage since level 1. You are talking about items when I talking about early levels. They never had that damage. NEVER. You can use your alternative facts all you want, but is not hard to go on youtube and find a gameplay video with supports form the previous seasons. They removed a lot of armor and mr, especially from mages and adc. You can argue as much as you want, but you are wrong and wrong.
Lmao I've been playing since mid S2, man I like where this is going. Tell me this, why does Alistar's combo deal more damage now? Did the base damage of his Q and W suddenly become 100 or something? You want facts? The last damage change from his standard combo, WQ was from season pre season 3, where his W was nerfed from 85 damage early to 55. His old trample did 7 - 24 damage and lasted for 3 seconds and refreshes every ability cast, the current one does slightly more early, 10-20 damage, but has a empowered auto if he manages to stick on an enemy while it's active after 5 stacks which deals 55-310 damage. Tell me where is this increase of damage you speak of? Is it the empowered auto? That's conditional power at best, requiring you to stick on opponents for 2.5 seconds, which is hard unless you aren't AAing and the enemy is immobile. and is really only worth getting 2 auto attacks off from 1 auto Aside from Alistar who supposedly deals so much more damage now, who else does? I'll dispute you to hell, because all of them deals the exact same damage as they always have, could even be weaker like Leona who got nerfed because of aftershock, which now requires her to have aftershock and land that damage to deal near equivalent damage from pre-keystone days They removed MR? ha, everyone got scaling MR now, some champs IIRC got that revoked because they became harder than intended to deal with in their respective lane. Everyone got health or armor compensation for the removal of runes which is coming back for us to choose.
: What? There are so many ways to get raw damage from runes now that it just isn't comparable. I've been playing since season 2 and without a doubt, damage is at an all time high (mainly up front but some of the DPS is insane too). For example: I take {{champion:24}} and go conqueror, as is standard. At level 18 I get: 20% of damage into true damage (which is beyond insane for someone who doesn't buy pen) 7% Bonus damage to low health units 53 Attack damage 27% Attack speed (which works very well with the attack damage, of course) 7 Lethality 6 Magic Pen That is just insane, and eclipses any combination you could ever get from the pre-rework runes and masteries. And that's not mentioning the lack of defensive stats you now get (as they are not optimal, whereas before you were better off getting armor yellows and MR blues). That is just too much free damage on top of an already super high damage kit. Couple this with items like {{item:3748}} {{item:3053}} which do make you tanky but give you so much free damage, then of course Jax is going to be strong. And that's just one example, of what is typical in this game right now. You can't without smirking, look me in the eye and seriously tell me you don't think damage is higher now than it's even been.
Well the runes were like I said, with less choices and options you can make, Riot could make more powerful / meaningful runes when excluding keystones. Jax has always been such a strong dueler especially when he gets ahead, that's how he's always been. Sure we now have these Bruiser items, but people should be happy, more than getting pissed off that a class finally got dedicated items 5 seasons in. If they get strong because of it, they nerf the items or nerf the champion, simple as that. Bruiser champions used to grab 1-2 damage items then dip into tank items, now they can just build hp/ad items. This is definitely a net increase in accessible offensive stats for bruisers, supports have had it too, but Riot always does do compensation when it happens. You can't avoid having certain champions be strong beyond belief, I don't even recall if Jax is meta right now, but if he isn't, be glad, a NON META champion is finally viable to play when he isn't even META. Isn't that what people want? CHAMPION DIVERSITY, Riot has been achieving this season, started with swain rework, then it went south mid season, and now we're back with a lot of champions viable, meta or not.
AjXtar (EUW)
: Remind me in what season supports were killing the adc? We had tahm when he was released, but he was OP in every other role too. Now every support is dealing a crap ton of damage. Alistar combo is almost 50% of adc HP. You can't tell me that damage was not increased when supports can do that and once again, look at team fights in s6 and before. You can use s7 as an example, even if we had that cancer ardent meta. You will see a clear difference between the team fights we have now and the team fights we had then.
Alistar combo WQ combo has not done any more damage than it has since season 2, in fact it was worse back then because you could weave an auto inbetween the WQ cause of some weird interaction. His E requires an auto to get full damage, and before that he just had trample every time he used spells, the damage over time is comparable to how it's always been since the beginning of time, once again the extra damage comes from keystones. Supports have had an "increase" in damage output since season 6 because all the more traditional enchanter supports has gotten items that are meant for them, with some giving easier access to AP. They always have been able to deal that amount of damage, but in the past, it wasn't worth it, now riot has been doing away with shields because of uninteractive lanes and because of the ardent meta, Riot now encourages damaging abilities to be leveled first, which pushes interactivity. Season 7 is probably the biggest outlier in history when it comes to team fights, because they were always being extended because everyone just ran champs with shields and heals and that was also so strong that burst was not an option. Season 6 you make me laugh as we had 3 hit burst hyper carry adcs, and thunderlords meta, the only thing that didn't burst you was the tank assassins that spanned near the end of season 6 to start of season 7, but you couldn't ever kill them. You're going to come here next season complaining about the same thing, and say hey remember season 8 team fights they were so much better. I'm telling you, increase of damage is an illusion the upfront damage which riot already addressed is what has increased, and has been toned down, but that's still higher than ever.
: You're a lvl 14 poppy, base+w+tabi is enough for over 100armor, and 100armor is a 50% damage reduction(even vs his ult as most of it is base armor). Yasuo has IE and conqueror, so 30% of his damage is true, the remaining 70% are reduced by 12% from tabi and then cut in half by armor to a final value of ~30.8%. So you take 30% of his premitigation damage as truedamage, and 30.8% as physical, which is is basically a 50/50 split. This also means you take ~60% of his total damage in the end. Without the truedamage stuff, it would have been 44%, so the truedamage caused him to do ~35% more damage than he normaly would, and that vs a non armorstacking target. The truedamage converstion is very powerfull and really makes you wonder why you'd ever get armor vs conqueror...and people wonder why conqu users prefer trinity over BC. Imo it was a mistake to introduce trudemage on such a scale to the game, it's fine in certain kits where it is kinda the selling point of the champion, but broadly aviable for many champs it just makes tankgear feel pointless.
I'd really wish they'd nerf the true damage conversion to like 10% and go to 20% at like level 16, like I agree that the rune is a problem in itself, but I still see some value in keeping it, and making it so armor is worth buying early will definitely help a lot
AjXtar (EUW)
: > Damage is the same as its always been You might want to check some team fights from the other seasons and say that again. Even Riot admitted that there is too much damage right now. Why do you think they nerfed some of the keystones?
As far as I know Riot only admitted there's been increased of up front daamge, which is why they nerfed keystones. He's not wrong that total damage did not increase ever. Damage from abilities has hardly changed, raw AD and AP values from items are an all time low, but are now compensated with more items that have passives and CDR that would be desirable for some champions. Armor values are at an all time high, but health values has taken some hits for that. The only thing that really made an increase of damage has and always been the introduction of keystones, which even if it was an increase of damage, compared to season 6 and 7 which were shit for balance, they're currently really good as there's so many champions you can play viably without hindering your team, because what matters the most is team comps and macro, and some keystones are like a second flash to some champions, as in it's worth more for that champion compared to another (flash helps and is worth more for immobile champs than mobile ones)
: This game has been dumbed down so hard it's disgusting
Runes reforged wasn't just a way to due away with the old runes, it is also in a way to make more impactful choices, by having less options riot could make more powerful non keystone runes usually without being more powerful than a keystone, cause if they were, that'd be slated for nerfs. Old runes was just a choice of stats, old masteries was a mix of stats and very small effects that had very little effect throughout the game. We lost the ability to choose stats, but now we're getting it back. I'll argue with you that macro is the thing that matters the most in this game right now, and Riot can only constantly try to make it better. Solo play is at most dead, even with the changes that Riot has done to bounty and turret again, I'd encourage to NOT make solo play any more alive than it is now, as you'd have to sacrifice some comeback mechanics for anyone who is behind. You're encouraged to communicate with the team, as the jungle is a wasteland, split pushing requires knowledge of all enemies at all times, safely farming side lanes also does too. Games are far too decided from being in the right place at the right time, and setting up before hand so your team will have the advantage, and I honestly don't think that's a bad thing.
Gilgayu (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=XeroKimo,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=8xAs6LEY,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-11-02T17:13:27.233+0000) > > Despite what people say, right now I'm sure that as low as C tier champs in their respective role is viable to play, but it's catered around team comps. I'll be forward and say, I hate playing meta champs, I hate people who only play meta champs and think it's the only way to play the game. > I love playing champs that are 2-3 tiers below best, figuring out how they can put success even when it's not in their favor, and most of the time I do find success, then find it puzzling that people just see them as useless. Hell some of the champions I play could suddenly be meta and suddenly their mentality of said champion suddenly is "nerf this champ rito pls", and I'll become more surprised because you people said they were useless like a few days ago. Completely agree (even though playing meta champs to crush your opponents can be fun lol), A lot of champions, especially adcs, are below b tier because their kits don't fit the meta, but it certainly doesn't mean they are useless. For example, Kalista is one of the worst adc right now, but she can still be very strong if she has a support that goes well with her ult, like Alistar. Most people probably have been recked by an ivern main before because we have no idea how its kits work — we just know it's not the "meta" If a champion is in meta or not doesn't really affect its potential, or what is also called the "skill ceiling." This is also the reason why some "okay" champions in lower elo get trash-caned because the pros have gotten to the skill ceiling, and it is too high. Tiers really doesn't matter that much unless it's god-tier or D. For people who enjoy playing non-metas, I just suggest you to one-trick them. Playing one-trick can be boring at times, but it really helps you learn the position, wave management, and use the _right_ combo at the right time. Just like how I though Garen had a very low skill ceiling (I mean he just q e and just follows you....), but apperantly its one-tricks can get to challenger too > [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=8xAs6LEY,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-11-02T17:24:14.431+0000) > > [Absolutely.](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/summoners/garen) Edit : the meta champions still have significant advantage toward lower tier champions, though
That usually depends on the match ups (in lane and/or as a team comp) excluding champs in god tier, along with when, what time of the game, we're talking about here. Even the most god tier champs have at some point of the game, they're weak in, but usually the god tier champs are still as good as an A tier champ at their best time of the game, which is why they usually need nerfs. Meanwhile A-tier champs at their worst time of the game right now can be weaker than C-Tier champs at their best time of the game.
: Why Do Some Champions Have to be Bad?
Despite what people say, right now I'm sure that as low as C tier champs in their respective role is viable to play, but it's catered around team comps. I'll be forward and say, I hate playing meta champs, I hate people who only play meta champs and think it's the only way to play the game. I love playing champs that are 2-3 tiers below best, figuring out how they can put success even when it's not in their favor, and most of the time I do find success, then find it puzzling that people just see them as useless. Hell some of the champions I play could suddenly be meta and suddenly their mentality of said champion suddenly is "nerf this champ rito pls", and I'll become more surprised because you people said they were useless like a few days ago.
: The tank meta was more fun then the one shot meta,change my mind
Most tank metas were pretty shit and pretty much crowded out 1 whole class when doing so, which was well assassins. As much as you and many others hate assassins, having a whole class be pretty much unplayable in a meta is pretty shitty. "Oh but we're in a one shot meta, tanks are useless because assassins are so strong". That's not true at all, tanks still have a huge place in the current meta, people just don't like playing them, or tries playing them once and do poorly and call them weak.
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