: is this reasonable for 2 minute 40 seconds into the game?
People have argued he misplayed, lvl disadvantage, minion disadvantage, etc.. All of which I agree with. Him showing leblanc doesn't matter, any assassin can do this in these conditions. Id argue MOST champions can do this under these conditions and ignite lol. Sorry m8, respect the lvl and minion advantage and back off to tower. The wave is pushing.
: Also top laners can deal absurd amounts of damage if they are constantly trading damage with a tank, especially if they deal % health damage, this boosts their statistics but again you can't use that number to compare them to somebody else who successfully took out a high priority target with small health pool by playing well. Or even better somebody who saw an opportunity to take uncontested objectives instead of fighting. Overall the damage done to champions is not significant at all and usually just confirms very obvious things that you would know anyway if you pay attention to the game, if interpreted correctly.
> [{quoted}](name=FixHealsRemoveGW,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xUsA0twG,comment-id=000f000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-12T19:42:34.588+0000) > > Also top laners can deal absurd amounts of damage if they are constantly trading damage with a tank, especially if they deal % health damage, this boosts their statistics but again you can't use that number to compare them to somebody else who successfully took out a high priority target with small health pool by playing well. Or even better somebody who saw an opportunity to take uncontested objectives instead of fighting. > Overall the damage done to champions is not significant at all and usually just confirms very obvious things that you would know anyway if you pay attention to the game, if interpreted correctly. I don't disagree with anything you just said. My comment was meant to show essentially this, just not in so many words. If you are poking a tank over and over again, you will have high dmg dlt. That will not actually win the game or means you've done anything extremely productive unless it led to something. Like poking to half hp then engaging an all in for example. I just think too much is being put on the dmg dealt stat, it doesn't come close to telling the whole story.
: > [{quoted}](name=DotEleven,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fEiAOKV7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-12T15:44:13.343+0000) > > Looking at your list most of these if not all are unobtainable now. > > Triumphant Ryze is from winning a tourney sponsored by Riot. > Unchained Alistar I think you can still get from following Riot Games on youtube or something. > Riot Girl Tristana was following on facebook > > Rusty Blitzcrank was retired > Black Alistar was from the Digital Collector's Edition > UFO Corki was limited > Judgement Kayle I recall was from taking part in the Tribunal way back. > Can't remember Silver Kayle > King Rammus was for beta testers > Championship Riven was limited Season 2 IIRC > Anything Victorious is from being gold or above for their season. > Anything PAX required purchase during that time or a PAX code. > Riot Squad Singed was also limited time. > Medieval Twitch/Grey Warwick were > Urf the Manitee, not sure which you're asking here but if it's the Urfwick skin that was limited time for April Fools. > > Some of these might be wrong so if anyone knows of a mistake I made let me know and I'll fix. can't all of that roll in the event shops ?
> [{quoted}](name=ScoundrelRuffian,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fEiAOKV7,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2018-08-12T18:06:02.150+0000) > > can't all of that roll in the event shops ? Well I tried rerolling after I had owned "everything" and it just gave me a dup of something I already had. If there was something available to me that I didn't own it would have given it to me. feelsbadman
: Honor 5 reward feels underwhelming and unsatisfying
I agree there should be something 'special', considering the community's reputation for toxicity. I can't help but wonder though how far we've come where we get mad for not being rewarded enough for being normal, ya know not toxic and respectful. Weird times we live in.
: > [{quoted}](name=XesarTheCalmm,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ENaiZhbA,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-12T17:31:38.135+0000) > > I also don't need historical context If you actually knew the full context you wouldn't have made this statement: > Logically, its pretty obvious that all of that history had a conclusion that does not meet my own. People who are unwilling to learn are part of the problem. Do your part and actually read up on a subject you're wanting to talk about.
> [{quoted}](name=redniwediS,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ENaiZhbA,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-12T18:34:05.459+0000) > > If you actually knew the full context you wouldn't have made this statement: > > People who are unwilling to learn are part of the problem. Do your part and actually read up on a subject you're wanting to talk about. Sure I would, I don't see your point here. lol, are you attacking me for not wanting to read through thousands of posts to find why we still have this rune in its current state? I am part of the problem for this? Explain how? I am pointing out that its unprecedented to have hybrid penetration at a 20% clip with scaling ad/mini old fervor. If you don't agree move on. Or is that your mission in life. To reply to other peoples' posts with the specific intent to downvote and point out that you feel they are unworthy of posting? Get a life man. You are exposing yourself.
: Yes it can, if your opponents have a lot of sustain. Poke champions tend to be pretty high in the damage done statistic, whereas extremely successful assassin players can have much less damage done, but that doesn't mean they were bad, not at all.
> [{quoted}](name=FixHealsRemoveGW,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xUsA0twG,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2018-08-12T17:52:03.911+0000) > > Yes it can, if your opponents have a lot of sustain. Poke champions tend to be pretty high in the damage done statistic, whereas extremely successful assassin players can have much less damage done, but that doesn't mean they were bad, not at all. Fair enough, it was more sarcasm than anything.
: > [{quoted}](name=XesarTheCalmm,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ENaiZhbA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-12T17:14:48.808+0000) > > It is my experience that things tend to get lost and forgotten if you let it. It doesn't really matter if there have been discussions. Obviously nothing has been done and shouldn't mean that you stop asking. Also Id hate to be guilty of the dreaded sin of necroing a thread. Bottom line is it STILL an issue and we should be questioning it. Always and forever. I'm not saying you should necro a thread, but that doesn't mean you can't learn what people were thinking in the past. Conqueror came out of a situation where most Divers were making due with Keystones that really didn't fit them very well. Tanks were still fairly dominant in their preferred positions, and excluding a few outliers the entire Fighter class was considered weak. When an entire class is in a spot like that Riot looks into improving them, and a clear spot for improvement was with a Keystone that actually worked for them. The thoughts and opinions, from both players and Devs alike, are why Conqueror is a thing, and are why it is in it's current state. Everything from the loss of Fervor of Battle to the meta of the time shaped Riot's decision making. That history is what you need to take the time to learn about if you really want to know why Conqueror is how it is. Even just finding Dev posts is enough, but it does take some actual effort from you. Expecting other people to either remember all this or do the searching for you is bad style. If you want something to be done you need to be informed, otherwise you'll be like those people who still ask for permanent chat restrictions, even though we've been telling these people for years why Riot doesn't do that.
> [{quoted}](name=redniwediS,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ENaiZhbA,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-12T17:24:21.944+0000) > > I'm not saying you should necro a thread, but that doesn't mean you can't learn what people were thinking in the past. > > Conqueror came out of a situation where most Divers were making due with Keystones that really didn't fit them very well. Tanks were still fairly dominant in their preferred positions, and excluding a few outliers the entire Fighter class was considered weak. When an entire class is in a spot like that Riot looks into improving them, and a clear spot for improvement was with a Keystone that actually worked for them. > > The thoughts and opinions, from both players and Devs alike, are why Conqueror is a thing, and are why it is in it's current state. Everything from the loss of Fervor of Battle to the meta of the time shaped Riot's decision making. That history is what you need to take the time to learn about if you really want to know why Conqueror is how it is. Even just finding Dev posts is enough, but it does take some actual effort from you. > > Expecting other people to either remember all this or do the searching for you is bad style. If you want something to be done you need to be informed, otherwise you'll be like those people who still ask for permanent chat restrictions, even though we've been telling these people for years why Riot doesn't do that. I would never talk about permanent chat restrictions. I'm not 12. I pointed out that fervor was for the most part accepted as a fighter rune and was well liked, perhaps for a lack of options. This new conq rune though is essentially fervor on super enhanced genetically modified steroids. There is no item in the game that gives you hybrid PEN. That's a problem not with the items in game but with the rune imo. I also don't need historical context to be able to plainly see something is wrong. Logically, its pretty obvious that all of that history had a conclusion that does not meet my own. Now if you are of the opinion that conq is great, fair enough. If not also fair enough, but to attack me or the post because you don't think I should be posting it for 'reasons?' is ironically akin to employing chat restriction tactics to your point.
: The gold cost listed fails to take into account the cost for the AD granted by the item, so the number you are citing is off by at least 50%. It is also worth noting that the true damage conversion is not as good at invalidating Armor purchases as a larger percentage of armor shred, so against high armor opponents the percentage reduction is actually still stronger.
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ENaiZhbA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-12T17:06:05.457+0000) > > The gold cost listed fails to take into account the cost for the AD granted by the item, so the number you are citing is off by at least 50%. It is also worth noting that the true damage conversion is not as good at invalidating Armor purchases as a larger percentage of armor shred, so against high armor opponents the percentage reduction is actually still stronger. I don't doubt that it is stronger, basic math would say 35% > 20%. What I am arguing specifically is conq gives you ad per lvl which is comparable to the ad given by the item. Also take into account that if you wanted to negate MR you would have to buy an MR pen item which most don't do. Conq gives you both, which is arguably invaluable and unprecedented, especially for hybrid dmg champs.
: I downvoted because you're asking a question that has been answered a few thousand times already. Just use the freaking search bar. I mean honestly, how many times does this question have to be answered?
> [{quoted}](name=redniwediS,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ENaiZhbA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-12T17:05:10.526+0000) > > I downvoted because you're asking a question that has been answered a few thousand times already. Just use the freaking search bar. > > I mean honestly, how many times does this question have to be answered? It is my experience that things tend to get lost and forgotten if you let it. It doesn't really matter if there have been discussions. Obviously nothing has been done and shouldn't mean that you stop asking. Also Id hate to be guilty of the dreaded sin of necroing a thread. Bottom line is it STILL an issue and we should be questioning it. Always and forever. Edit, I also don't believe its been "answered" just accepted because 'there's nothing we can do about it'.
: Conqueror too stong. 35% armor pen costs you 2800 and it is usually built as a 4-5-6th item.
Hahaha, and the downvotes begin. Bruiser mains unite! Calm down I'm not for or against bruisers. I am simply asking an honest question. Why should a keystone be worth 3500-4000 gold just for the ability to penetrate BOTH MR and Armor alone? I would argue that every champion that is not a shield/heal support should take it. Its that efficient. I'm always wrong though.
Rioter Comments
: "I have the highest damage/Look at your sad damage"
Actually couldn't you argue that having the most dmg in the game simply means you lacked the dmg to actually kill anyone?
: Yasuo gets picked in 8.15 LCK playoffs ---- BUT LETS BUFF HIM !
As long as his windwall exists, he will always be unfun to play against for the 99%. lets see 18 second cooldown? that negates (without having to actually aim it mind you) the enemies big cooldowns that happen to be coded as projectile. Ex, Braum, whose ult erupts the GROUND right? is completely negated by an 18 second point and click for the TEAM. Put in perspective a 60-130 second skill is negated by 18 x 5 (the team). I personally don't care about his passive shield who I have seen negate an ezreal ult when he was within death range. I don't care about his double crit chance. I don't care about his free armor pen. I don't care about his tornado that spans the length of the screen. I dont care about his tornado making your q pbaoe, negating even having to land the q "skill shot". I don't care about his ulting on the backs of anyone eles random knock up that spans the length of the screen. I don't care about his mobility. I don't care about using your own minions against you. I can go on and on. The problem is very simply his windwall. You don't aim it, just drop it and behold "Im so skilled! haha you cant hit me or my TEAM with anything!! and muahaha now that you have no cd's you will die! HASAGI!" You remove or rework this and the hate for yas will drop in my humble opinion, and the 50% ban rate will drop as would his win rate. No other champ can literally feed, lose lane and still kill your whole team because of innate power, and no other champs can negate a good portion of complete champion kits on an 18 second cd. to be honest? this is beyond ultimate power, that shouldn't be on his W. Its like old TF, like beta TF, they changed his ult from his w to his r because gee, it wasn't very smart to give a champ a 30-40 second map blink, lol If there is another champ like this by all means, let me know, I could be wrong.
: > [{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fEiAOKV7,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-12T15:59:02.681+0000) > > You could try to see if Riot support can still get you Riot Girl Trist and Unchained Ali, and you get either Grey Warwick or Medieval Twitch for reaching Honor 5. You can also get Urf-wick from the Blue Essence store, but it won't have the special loading screen border. > > As for most other ones, don't think it's too likely. You might be able to get Neo-Pax Sivir if you attend a PAX convention that Riot is at, but can't guarantee that they'll have the code. Worth a shot. I think the border is what I am referring to with manatee. Under the skins tab there are two. An urf warwick and another urf warwick, I own one of them but not the other.
> [{quoted}](name=XesarTheCalmm,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fEiAOKV7,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-08-12T16:01:40.637+0000) > > Worth a shot. I think the border is what I am referring to with manatee. Under the skins tab there are two. An urf warwick and another urf warwick, I own one of them but not the other. I just tried it said my window has passed. Why is there even a window for these things >.<
: You could try to see if Riot support can still get you Riot Girl Trist and Unchained Ali, and you get either Grey Warwick or Medieval Twitch for reaching Honor 5. You can also get Urf-wick from the Blue Essence store, but it won't have the special loading screen border. As for most other ones, don't think it's too likely. You might be able to get Neo-Pax Sivir if you attend a PAX convention that Riot is at, but can't guarantee that they'll have the code.
> [{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fEiAOKV7,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-12T15:59:02.681+0000) > > You could try to see if Riot support can still get you Riot Girl Trist and Unchained Ali, and you get either Grey Warwick or Medieval Twitch for reaching Honor 5. You can also get Urf-wick from the Blue Essence store, but it won&#x27;t have the special loading screen border. > > As for most other ones, don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s too likely. You might be able to get Neo-Pax Sivir if you attend a PAX convention that Riot is at, but can&#x27;t guarantee that they&#x27;ll have the code. Worth a shot. I think the border is what I am referring to with manatee. Under the skins tab there are two. An urf warwick and another urf warwick, I own one of them but not the other.
: Looking at your list most of these if not all are unobtainable now. Triumphant Ryze is from winning a tourney sponsored by Riot. Unchained Alistar I think you can still get from following Riot Games on youtube or something. Riot Girl Tristana was following on facebook Rusty Blitzcrank was retired Black Alistar was from the Digital Collector's Edition UFO Corki was limited Judgement Kayle I recall was from taking part in the Tribunal way back. Can't remember Silver Kayle King Rammus was for beta testers Championship Riven was limited Season 2 IIRC Anything Victorious is from being gold or above for their season. Anything PAX required purchase during that time or a PAX code. Riot Squad Singed was also limited time. Medieval Twitch/Grey Warwick were Urf the Manitee, not sure which you're asking here but if it's the Urfwick skin that was limited time for April Fools. Some of these might be wrong so if anyone knows of a mistake I made let me know and I'll fix.
> [{quoted}](name=DotEleven,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fEiAOKV7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-12T15:44:13.343+0000) > > Looking at your list most of these if not all are unobtainable now. > > Triumphant Ryze is from winning a tourney sponsored by Riot. > Unchained Alistar I think you can still get from following Riot Games on youtube or something. > Riot Girl Tristana was following on facebook > > Rusty Blitzcrank was retired > Black Alistar was from the Digital Collector&#x27;s Edition > UFO Corki was limited > Judgement Kayle I recall was from taking part in the Tribunal way back. > Can&#x27;t remember Silver Kayle > King Rammus was for beta testers > Championship Riven was limited Season 2 IIRC > Anything Victorious is from being gold or above for their season. > Anything PAX required purchase during that time or a PAX code. > Riot Squad Singed was also limited time. > Medieval Twitch/Grey Warwick were > Urf the Manitee, not sure which you&#x27;re asking here but if it&#x27;s the Urfwick skin that was limited time for April Fools. > > Some of these might be wrong so if anyone knows of a mistake I made let me know and I&#x27;ll fix. TY for this. I appreciate you taking the time to respond like this. Its is a bit discouraging though. hmmm.
: > [{quoted}](name=DotEleven,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fEiAOKV7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-12T15:44:13.343+0000) > > Looking at your list most of these if not all are unobtainable now. > > Triumphant Ryze is from winning a tourney sponsored by Riot. > Unchained Alistar I think you can still get from following Riot Games on youtube or something. > Riot Girl Tristana was following on facebook > > Rusty Blitzcrank was retired > Black Alistar was from the Digital Collector&#x27;s Edition > UFO Corki was limited > Judgement Kayle I recall was from taking part in the Tribunal way back. > Can&#x27;t remember Silver Kayle > King Rammus was for beta testers > Championship Riven was limited Season 2 IIRC > Anything Victorious is from being gold or above for their season. > Anything PAX required purchase during that time or a PAX code. > Riot Squad Singed was also limited time. > Medieval Twitch/Grey Warwick were > Urf the Manitee, not sure which you&#x27;re asking here but if it&#x27;s the Urfwick skin that was limited time for April Fools. > > Some of these might be wrong so if anyone knows of a mistake I made let me know and I&#x27;ll fix. You get either Grey Warwick or Medieval Twitch for reaching Honor 5
> [{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fEiAOKV7,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-12T15:55:29.279+0000) > > You get either Grey Warwick or Medieval Twitch for reaching Honor 5 Hmm I almost at the final checkpoint in honor 4, though I'm not sure what determines this. That's encouraging at least.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: RIOT in good faith I am writing to you, finally considering uninstalling and its not why you think
I'd like to thank KnightsKemp for having this discussion. In the end I will have to disagree though. I just can not accept inaction for fear of reaction. There is something currently wrong and apparently everyone agrees that these cases are not fair. I still would rather offer a solution to the problem than sit out and do nothing because something bad might happen. I appreciate the fact that it has been discussed in the past, but I think there are other factors in play. For example it being a new game gaining traction and having its fair share of problems over the years. Most of the time this is acceptable if the game has merit and is genuinely fun and that's where we started. Fast forward though and we have essentially a possible career making game by so many means. Coaching, streaming, content creation, college scholarships, professional play, are just a few. We can't deny that people get attracted to this stuff so it becomes much more important to gain and lose LP because that is what most people have to base their expertise by. Proof of expertise. Our rank. So as time goes on these problems that are acceptable in the past can't continue to be acceptable in the present because there is more at stake. You can argue that its to the detriment of the player and that would be fair, but that doesn't negate its value to the discussion. So here we are, 10 or so years later? a much bigger theater, higher stakes and we still can't get a resolution to this problem by the company. For a company this big, hosting events this big, I just can't find it acceptable. I proposed, keeping it simple at first, having it handled by riot support where you can petition with verifiable data in hand. I was told that it could open the doors to abuse. That may or may not be true, I don't know, but I think I'd rather open the door and stop the abuse of honest players FIRST. Once we know what that looks like then we can worry about the abusers and how to handle them. Just my 4 cents. Here's hoping.
: >We can't fix the problem by offering recourse for these very specific cases because someone somewhere in the future may do something? I think you're too dismissive about abuse cases here. Yes, it's appropriate to think about how policies will incentivize players. Again, you're saying "Thank goodness we historically as a society have not seen things this way and instead always aspired to make things better." What about all the times society *didn't* think about consequences and fucked shit up? That also happens a lot. I'll cede your point that we shouldn't let *small* things get in the way of progress. But your entire point hinges on the *integrity* of the system, right? How does the system maintain integrity if it is knowingly allowing people to exploit it for lp gains at the expense of other players?
> [{quoted}](name=KnightsKemplar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5pJ2hfTA,comment-id=000100010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-08T22:15:47.344+0000) > > I think you&#x27;re too dismissive about abuse cases here. Yes, it&#x27;s appropriate to think about how policies will incentivize players. Again, you&#x27;re saying &quot;Thank goodness we historically as a society have not seen things this way and instead always aspired to make things better.&quot; > > What about all the times society *didn&#x27;t* think about consequences and fucked shit up? That also happens a lot. > > I&#x27;ll cede your point that we shouldn&#x27;t let *small* things get in the way of progress. But your entire point hinges on the *integrity* of the system, right? How does the system maintain integrity if it is knowingly allowing people to exploit it for lp gains at the expense of other players? Simple that hasn't happened yet. Having the system rob you of lp through no fault of your own is though. Better put, one is a hypothetical and the other is not.
: RIOT in good faith I am writing to you, finally considering uninstalling and its not why you think
Honestly wish more people would chime in with opinions though. Id like everyone's opinion
: >In the real world systemic failures are in fact void. Only said it because you brought it up, friend. But you're right, let's get to brass tacks if that's what you're actually concerned about. First, the bug-splat issue. I refuse to believe it would be difficult to find/write a program that would reliably cause a bug-splat. It's that simple. If I discover that opening MS paint while in game causes a bug-splat, then I can just do that every time I'm losing to avoid an LP loss. Riot wouldn't be able to tell the difference between people who were abusing the system and people who just had unfortunate, weekly splats. Would lead to abuse. Second, afks. As I said before, afks are already something Riot is pretty progressive about. If a teammate doesn't connect to game, you *don't* get penalized. That's pretty neat by itself, tbh. But okay, let's say you're winning and have someone afk 30 minutes in and you end up losing. I agree, feels pretty unfair. But let's look at the other side; let's say you have someone afk when you're already losing. Can you be refunded for that? Simple answer is no. If someone else leaving makes *your* situation better, that's really bad for the game because it encourages harassment. If you know that you can get a loss prevented by getting someone to leave the game, what's to stop you from verbally abusing them and trolling them until they leave? Pretty much nothing. As has been stated many times on the PB boards, it's actually pretty difficult to detect trolling in game, especially if you're only doing it, say, during your promos. That system would actively encourage abuse by the team. I'm not saying the system is overly complicated. In fact, I think it's pretty simple to understand why "loss prevented" isn't more widely implemented. There are tons of ways to abuse the system, and not any ways that I have seen anyone propose to stop that abuse.
> [{quoted}](name=KnightsKemplar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5pJ2hfTA,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-08T20:07:28.364+0000) > > Only said it because you brought it up, friend. But you&#x27;re right, let&#x27;s get to brass tacks if that&#x27;s what you&#x27;re actually concerned about. > > First, the bug-splat issue. I refuse to believe it would be difficult to find/write a program that would reliably cause a bug-splat. It&#x27;s that simple. If I discover that opening MS paint while in game causes a bug-splat, then I can just do that every time I&#x27;m losing to avoid an LP loss. Riot wouldn&#x27;t be able to tell the difference between people who were abusing the system and people who just had unfortunate, weekly splats. Would lead to abuse. > > Second, afks. As I said before, afks are already something Riot is pretty progressive about. If a teammate doesn&#x27;t connect to game, you *don&#x27;t* get penalized. That&#x27;s pretty neat by itself, tbh. > > But okay, let&#x27;s say you&#x27;re winning and have someone afk 30 minutes in and you end up losing. I agree, feels pretty unfair. But let&#x27;s look at the other side; let&#x27;s say you have someone afk when you&#x27;re already losing. Can you be refunded for that? Simple answer is no. > > If someone else leaving makes *your* situation better, that&#x27;s really bad for the game because it encourages harassment. If you know that you can get a loss prevented by getting someone to leave the game, what&#x27;s to stop you from verbally abusing them and trolling them until they leave? Pretty much nothing. As has been stated many times on the PB boards, it&#x27;s actually pretty difficult to detect trolling in game, especially if you&#x27;re only doing it, say, during your promos. That system would actively encourage abuse by the team. > > I&#x27;m not saying the system is overly complicated. In fact, I think it&#x27;s pretty simple to understand why &quot;loss prevented&quot; isn&#x27;t more widely implemented. There are tons of ways to abuse the system, and not any ways that I have seen anyone propose to stop that abuse. "In the real world systemic failures are void" was referencing how these issues are handled in other settings, like poker once again. Your position is well articulated, I appreciate that. I believe, however, that everything I just read can be summed up by this: We can't fix the problem by offering recourse for these very specific cases because someone somewhere in the future may do something? With an attitude like that, yeh I agree nothing would ever be solved or regulated. I can only go point by point as you just did, so I will try and match wits here. The bugsplat issue of someone writing a program is a non issue at the moment. When it is then its relevant. I would be willing to bet that a company like riot would already have tests in place to see what causes game crashes. This is pretty common actually, especially if its reported, and ID'd by their own system. In any case, do you really believe that its better to not fix a problem because you fear someone may do something in the future? With all due respect, that is just ridiculous. Thank goodness we historically as a society have not seen things this way and instead always aspired to make things better. I encourage all to continue to do the same. I will restate though, that no other game where you essentially are betting your currency to gain more currency, this being LP, is allowed to operate this way. I don't buy the well others do it, and we're a video game company as a viable excuse. We have been moving past simple video game company with the introduction and subsequent popularity of esports. And with great power comes great responsibility. With respect to the AFK's, I don't see the relevance either. The game is neither won nor lost until the nexus is destroyed or by a forfeit. Correct? You can't claim a victor by saying whose ahead or whose not, throws happen all the time. We can however confidently conclude that the game would have been more fair if it was a 5v5 through the whole game, can we not? I don't have a problem losing fairly and under the terms of the game, I have a problem with someone else able to essentially rob my LP because I was at a disadvantage through no fault of my own. Every player on either side should be able to petition for refund if they got a game that was not properly played. How riot handles its LP from there would be their problem. Perhaps if riot wasn't so secretive about their LP payouts, then I could comment further on ways to handle it. Harrassment? We already have systems in place, through reports, and emailing riot! We arguably had it better when we had a tribunal because at least you had a sense that actual humans, a committee of peers of sorts, going through the same things can judge your situation on a case by case basis. Again I have to refer to my earlier comment, I will go ahead and copy and paste it here: "everything I just read can be summed up by this: We can't fix the problem by offering recourse for these very specific cases because someone somewhere in the future may" do something? Rito pls!
: > [{quoted}](name=XesarTheCalmm,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5pJ2hfTA,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-08T18:59:44.210+0000) Again, I see your point, and I agree it's a huge issue. But I think there's a good reason it hasn't been solved, and it's because of the complexity of the problem. *If* it is solvable, no one knows how to do it. This is the real world, and systematic failures are the norm, not the exception. When you look at government systems, systemic failures are inevitable. Even the institutions dedicated to treating citizens as fairly and equally as possible fuck this up. It's kind of ridiculous to expect Riot to do better imo. This is not an oppressive system propagated by a willfully neglectful entity. This is a direct consequence of the way the world is. Riot being big has *absolutely noting* to do with their ability to change this. If it did, Blizzard would have solved this. Ubisoft would have solved this. Valve would have solved this. I'm not aware of a single online game that allows you to avoid penalties for one afk. It's a system that can inherently be abused. You don't have to like it, but that's how it is. In fact, by allowing a 3 minute remake, Riot is one of the *better* companies out there trying to solve this. Overwatch doesn't have that shit. If you get an afk in ranked there, even if they never connect, you're just screwed, last I checked. It's something that all online gamers have always dealt with. We all deal with it together. It sucks, and as soon as someone figures out how to fix it, we can fix it. Until then, this is how it is.
> [{quoted}](name=KnightsKemplar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5pJ2hfTA,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-08T19:12:13.598+0000) > > Again, I see your point, and I agree it&#x27;s a huge issue. But I think there&#x27;s a good reason it hasn&#x27;t been solved, and it&#x27;s because of the complexity of the problem. *If* it is solvable, no one knows how to do it. > > This is the real world, and systematic failures are the norm, not the exception. When you look at government systems, systemic failures are inevitable. Even the institutions dedicated to treating citizens as fairly and equally as possible fuck this up. It&#x27;s kind of ridiculous to expect Riot to do better imo. > > This is not an oppressive system propagated by a willfully neglectful entity. This is a direct consequence of the way the world is. Riot being big has *absolutely noting* to do with their ability to change this. If it did, Blizzard would have solved this. Ubisoft would have solved this. Valve would have solved this. I&#x27;m not aware of a single online game that allows you to avoid penalties for one afk. It&#x27;s a system that can inherently be abused. You don&#x27;t have to like it, but that&#x27;s how it is. > > In fact, by allowing a 3 minute remake, Riot is one of the *better* companies out there trying to solve this. Overwatch doesn&#x27;t have that shit. If you get an afk in ranked there, even if they never connect, you&#x27;re just screwed, last I checked. It&#x27;s something that all online gamers have always dealt with. We all deal with it together. It sucks, and as soon as someone figures out how to fix it, we can fix it. Until then, this is how it is. I don't see how politics have anything to do with this. This isn't really that complicated. You are honestly comparing the plight of riot with the plight of world geo politics? I won't say any more on that topic. Ill get back to simple. I am a customer entering your arena to play a game that has rules. The rules are plain and simple. If at anytime u can not accommodate me by presenting the game how it should be played, the results should be void. You keep claiming that it is so complicated, and compare it to world's problems. Wow , with a claim like that how can one little guy like me even dare to suggest it should be fixed? Its kind of like saying "you just don't understand little one". I'll try again to put it in more worldly simpler terms: I am simply a customer, playing a game, the game sometimes does not play itself out as a 5v5 through no fault of my own, therefore I shouldn't pay for that game. Its very simple. And before you get into payment, because I said I shouldn't pay. The currency is LP. LP is being wagered every time you play. You either win some or you lose some depending on the results of the game, that is currency any way you slice it. And its worth REAL money to a lot of people, hence why we have coaches for example. I won't go any further than this on this point. The bottom line is, claiming something is hard and showing something is hard are two different things. Why can I not show VERIFIABLE data that I have had a BUGSPLAT error, with an ID number and have that games results be refunded to me? That is a better question than trying to muddy it by all of these world problems of epic proportions. They are not the same. Lets keep it simple pls.
: > [{quoted}](name=XesarTheCalmm,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5pJ2hfTA,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-08-08T18:23:17.459+0000) > > Actually its really not &quot;just another thread that offers no insight&quot; but thank you for representing this forum in a biased manner. > > I have clearly spelled out the problem, gave real life examples of why its a problem and also gave real life examples on how it is solved. Pls be objective and don&#x27;t just defend because you feel it is an attack. Its not, its an observation to be clear. Your solutions do not deal with any potential abuse cases. Likewise, you shouldn't just defend because you think my comment is an attack :P I read your post and I have actual issues with your lack of proposed solutions. The solutions that you propose are very slap-dash and do absolutely nothing to stop people from abusing the system. You and a buddy can trade drops just to keep each other from losing lp; over time, you'll lose half as much. That's a problem.
> [{quoted}](name=KnightsKemplar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5pJ2hfTA,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2018-08-08T18:45:12.030+0000) > > Your solutions do not deal with any potential abuse cases. Likewise, you shouldn&#x27;t just defend because you think my comment is an attack :P > > I read your post and I have actual issues with your lack of proposed solutions. The solutions that you propose are very slap-dash and do absolutely nothing to stop people from abusing the system. You and a buddy can trade drops just to keep each other from losing lp; over time, you&#x27;ll lose half as much. That&#x27;s a problem. Fair point, but is it my job specifically to figure out every detail of a solution? I'm pointing out a problem, very serious problem, and offered people to take a look at the outside world for possible solutions, like poker. I'm not just screaming boohoo, waaah unfair!!! I offered insight. In the real world systemic failures are in fact void. You are not expected to play a handicapped game under the same conditions as if it were not handicapped. I am speaking specifically on the matters of bugsplats and AFK's which are VERIFIABLE. I asked why can't I simply take my own time and email riot explaining the situation give my details, have them look at it and say yes this isn't your fault, here you go sir, have a nice day? You give one example of "a buddy", well to that I just say it would be pretty easy to see that you are duo with your afk "partner" would it not? And again I don't work for riot. I don't get paid to figure out every solution for them. I am however a paying customer and have been for many years in good faith, but all I see are shiny paint jobs when in reality none of that ever mattered for success or enjoyment, evidenced by its monstrous growth without it. My issue is fundamental. Maintain the integrity of the game we play and if you can't because "its an inherent problem of online games" then understand that this game is perhaps the biggest "competitive game" on the market, pioneer of sorts, and shouldn't hide behind things like "well everyone else does it". That just doesn't cut it in my eyes. They are bigger than that. Way bigger. Offer a way for recourse in these specific cases. Find a way to offer it. That would go a longer way in quelling player frustration than throwing pool parties every couple of months.
: It's another thread that complains about a problem and offers no insight about solving it. It's not that Riot doesn't care about these problems; it's that they are inherent to the world of internet gaming. Everyone who has spent even a small bit of time in an online gaming community is aware of these issues, and is also moderately aware that they are difficult, if not impossible, to solve. If you believe that you have a silver bullet to this problem, you should start a company, ASAP, and start trying to sell it to gaming companies. You'd likely make money hand over fist if it were even 50% effective.
> [{quoted}](name=KnightsKemplar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5pJ2hfTA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-08T17:22:03.511+0000) > > It&#x27;s another thread that complains about a problem and offers no insight about solving it. > > It&#x27;s not that Riot doesn&#x27;t care about these problems; it&#x27;s that they are inherent to the world of internet gaming. Everyone who has spent even a small bit of time in an online gaming community is aware of these issues, and is also moderately aware that they are difficult, if not impossible, to solve. If you believe that you have a silver bullet to this problem, you should start a company, ASAP, and start trying to sell it to gaming companies. You&#x27;d likely make money hand over fist if it were even 50% effective. Actually its really not "just another thread that offers no insight" but thank you for representing this forum in a biased manner. I have clearly spelled out the problem, gave real life examples of why its a problem and also gave real life examples on how it is solved. Pls be objective and don't just defend because you feel it is an attack. Its not, its an observation to be clear.
Rioter Comments
: YOU SHOULD NOT LOSE 24 LP FOR TEAM BEING VEGETABLES
I agree to a point. I don't think it should be based off performance though. People will undoubtedly take advantage of this. I do think the system needs to change. I have serious issue with transparency more than anything. Why does this happen for example? I win two in a row gaining 18 lp each. I lose once I lose 20 lp. I win two in a row again, gaining 18 lp each, then lose once again and lose 20 lp. What is that?? You can claim all you want that the system is telling me I should be lower, but I'm not lower and that's not my fault. I'm sorry I'm not losing fast enough. /s In the past 70-80 games I have a positive win rate. At what point am I simply where I'm supposed to be?? Ever? Why does this crap system constantly try and push you down. Why do we even have different LP amounts for different people? Why is it easier to start a new account and climb with 35 lp per win, NEARLY DOUBLE. Do you know how maddening it is to play well for so long only to still be "punished" by a system that you cant even understand because they give you NO INFORMATION ON PURPOSE? ok Im done I had to get it out. A lot of people are upset about the season changes, I get that. I'm not though. I am angry because the system simply does NOT give you a fair shake. And the community, defends it like its the best thing in the world. They always turn it into a get good argument, when that's not the point. You want people to enjoy your game? You respect your players trust in your system because once they lose that trust, your game becomes meaningless. No one except for cheaters/hackers/casuals will play it. It will become a wasteland, like a lot of FPS have become. {{summoner:11}}

XesarTheCalmm

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