AhernfVy (NA)
: Too many champions have the counterplay of "just don't be that champion vs them" now
Due to power creep, champions that are overloaded, broken kits, and overturned, the game is decided more by counter picks than skill these days. Just look at all the "X champion is OP" threads. The responses are always "Pick Y champion that counters!" Before when people asked for advice what always came up was "Build these items you usually don't build, play differently, roam early, push harder" etc. Such is the way with power creep.
xWARx (NA)
: Revert Aatrox
Finding it funny, when a game lasts for a long time the playerbase starts cannibalizing itself. Just like WoW WoW: We want to be able to play Vanilla (which lead you think you do but you don't) Also WoW: F@$# you Vanilla players! You don't know what you want! Suck it up and play current WoW! Lo and behold Classic was released and is still going strong, and is still has naysayers. LoL Aatrox mains: We want to be able to play old Aatrox. Also LoL: F@#$ you "Aatrox mains!" You don't know what you want! Suck it up and play current Aatrox! Starting to see a pattern here, history repeats itself yet again. Next thing you'll know, I'll be told what cereal I like, what clothes I should wear, what sports teams I have to like (which ironically is what already is happening) Also for the fact that Riot will learn from the mistake of Aatrox's rework, no they won't. The exact samething happened to Mordekaiser in the Juggernaut rework. He was reworked so differently from a solo lane to an ADC lane, that he was entirely a new champion. To even rub more salt in the wound, his old title, The Master of Metal, was changed just to raise that middle finger Riot gave to Morde fans even higher. AND OH LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED TO AATROX AFTER THE REWORK! His kit was changed from a "face roll for more damage to the enemy team!" To a "face roll for life gain to the enemy team!" Nothing was learned from this, history will just repeat on another champion down the line. Only difference being I doubt Riot will give Aatrox a revert-rework 5 years from now, that is if League is still alive by then.
: Sad for those who loved the old champ, but this was one of those reworks that wasn't about unhealthy gameplay, it was that aside from a tiny population of mains, no one played or cared about the champ. Again it totally sucks to those who put in the time, but this happens all of the time in business, like if your favourite flavour of chip gets discontinued because no one else bought it. It sucks but that's the way it goes, no other way to say it really. And being loud won't make more people like old Aatrox. The time where maybe you could have made a change to what they did is probably over, they did this a while ago. Truth is as much as some people want to think otherwise, Riot, as well as most players were ok with big changes for Yorick, Aatrox, Urgot, Galio because no offense but to the vast majority those champs were just gross in every way in their old forms. Average player wouldn't have cared if you just deleted them at the time because relatively speaking they were that useless. My point is you can list what they didn't keep with these champs all day. All you're doing is listing things no one really wanted, as the changing of those old things was really the point from the beginning.
> [{quoted}](name=Noblewind,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vh6WrATY,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2019-12-07T15:34:08.768+0000) > > Sad for those who loved the old champ, but this was one of those reworks that wasn't about unhealthy gameplay, it was that aside from a tiny population of mains, no one played or cared about the champ. > > Again it totally sucks to those who put in the time, but this happens all of the time in business, like if your favourite flavour of chip gets discontinued because no one else bought it. It sucks but that's the way it goes, no other way to say it really. And being loud won't make more people like old Aatrox. The time where maybe you could have made a change to what they did is probably over, they did this a while ago. > > Truth is as much as some people want to think otherwise, Riot, as well as most players were ok with big changes for Yorick, Aatrox, Urgot, Galio because no offense but to the vast majority those champs were just gross in every way in their old forms. Average player wouldn't have cared if you just deleted them at the time because relatively speaking they were that useless. > > My point is you can list what they didn't keep with these champs all day. All you're doing is listing things no one really wanted, as the changing of those old things was really the point from the beginning. This is basically why. Aatrox had the biggest surge of fans when he was released, I think he still holds the record. He also has the biggest record of being obscured so quickly after the surge. I believe Riot Jag stated was why his rework is deleted in every facet both lore, style, attitude, kit, everything. He wasn't popular enough so he was reworked for the majority, and abolished for the minority of mains. It's just sad to see this when other reworks like Warwick, and Pantheon are closely devoted to their old kits, and enchanted lore, attitude, everything else.
xWARx (NA)
: Revert Aatrox
Wether there were champion's reworks that was a complete replacement or not, Aatrox's took it one step further. Most reworks kept their old selves via some abilities, enhanced lore, attitude, anything. Aatrox lost all of, he was a Demon God of War that convinced the loosing side of battle to fight to prolong war. He was elegant, stylish, artistic, calm, and collected. The "I'm immortal so I'll win in the end" sort of deal. The rework didn't just affect him but the entire game. New Aatrox is a raging sad husk that cries and yells and entire ability kit is something else. The rework could just have been a new champion and that would have been okay. There would be no need to burn down bridges. The lore got changed from something cool and made sense to whatever this is. Which also affected everything else. The Frozen Watchers got scrapped and turned into the leaders of the Void ... which doesn't make sense at all. Frejlord beats the ones in charge of the Void? Doesn't really make sense now, no matter how you spin it. Lissandra's lore has been ruined. The Shadow Isles had a nice fan rivalry with the Void, now the Shadow Isles plays second fiddle to the final big bad boss the Void. The Ascendant were few and epic God like beings. Nasus, Renekton, Xerath, and Azir were the only ones. Well then Darkin screwed that up entirely. The Darkin had the most cool mysterious lore behind them. The Darkin themselves were invading space demons, as their second retcon which was awesome, now they're just emo Ascendants. Constantly retconning lore especially when it was good will make fans lose interest. Aatrox's rework didn't just ruin a champion, it ruined the entire game. The game was in a decline, but after the rework it started to become much more steep.
Rewt (NA)
: I know people say every season is the most snowbally yet, but
That's because Riot constantly tries and out performs previous seasons. Which what is supposed to happen, however it is being executed the exact opposite. All Riot does is just increase the power creep constantly to the point where the match is decided at character select. There is no more strategy, just pick the op champions, and the only way to beat op champions is by counter picking them. Which is a failed system in of itself. You can't just say "to best X champion, pick Y champion" what if you're first pick? Yet that's the only strategy there is to besting overloaded op champions. Just ask anyone on the forums how to best overloaded X champion. It is always the same: "LOL NUB! L2P THE GAME! PLAY X OP CHAMPION! PICK Y CHAMPIONS! LAWL!" Before you could go "To beat X champion, play in this style, buy these items, when game reaches 15 minutes, start roaming, or farm, or push the lane, etc." It had nothing to do with what champion you played. Games are not decided by the 15 mark, they're decided in champion select.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yaskamasandwich,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c640my5x,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-11-22T01:27:48.734+0000) > This all went off the rails with Bradford 'CertainlyT' Wenban created {{champion:122}} in season 3, the same CT that is now promoted to Senior Game Designer. Darius was always a problem, an overloaded champion that completely replaced {{champion:86}} at the time. Everything Garen did, Darius did better. Man, I still remember the patch notes for when Darius was released... Be warned I'm summarizing the post - this isn't what they wrote word for word. "We're nerfing Garen's ultimate so that it has a longer cooldown early. It was too oppressive to get killed by his ult only for it to come off cooldown as soon as you got back into lane. Now with that out of the way, let's introduce Darius! If he kills you with his ultimate, it's cooldown is immediately refreshed!"
> [{quoted}](name=Sergeant HbA1c,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c640my5x,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-11-23T02:48:59.338+0000) > > Man, I still remember the patch notes for when Darius was released... > > Be warned I'm summarizing the post - this isn't what they wrote word for word. > > "We're nerfing Garen's ultimate so that it has a longer cooldown early. It was too oppressive to get killed by his ult only for it to come off cooldown as soon as you got back into lane. > > Now with that out of the way, let's introduce Darius! If he kills you with his ultimate, it's cooldown is immediately refreshed!" I think I remember that, and it was a trend that Riot started doing. Certain champions are allowed certain things, while others are not. Darius finally got fixed after a while for his ult to have a timer after use but still resetable, until level 16 .... and Garen still doesn't have a reset. Or how other champions copy other champions' powers but are better. Pyke's for example ultimate is basically Darius' and Urgot's combined with and added bonus of bonus gold.
Dolfro (EUNE)
: Strategy gameplay is constantly decline in our game and that's a bad sign.
Wall of text incoming. When one looks at League of Legend's history, the game reaching this point isn't really at all shocking. While there are many problems with League of Legends that came from even the old guard, the ranking tier system and removal of the old banning system has caused overwhelming toxicity. For now though let us just focus on the overloaded champions problem. This all went off the rails with Bradford 'CertainlyT' Wenban created {{champion:122}} in season 3, the same CT that is now promoted to Senior Game Designer. Darius was always a problem, an overloaded champion that completely replaced {{champion:86}} at the time. Everything Garen did, Darius did better. Better damage, better stats, better spin, better bully, better mobility with his old passive, better resetting ultimate which was/and still is TRUE DAMAGE, the list goes on. Instead of being fired, or leashed and forced to not create overloaded champions, Riot's higher ups kept letting CT create more and more overloaded abominations. Why? Well I've said this in another post, and I'll just even copy paste it to get the point across, with an added tack that CT is a hack, and he most CERTAINLY is: "CertainlyT is a terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE game designer. Anyone who can code, make champions, and rub two brain cells together can easily make an overloaded broken champion that breaks the rules of the game. It takes true skill to make a balanced, play by the rules champion, that is still interesting and fun for all. What CT is a very professional at is MARKETING, which is what the new team at Riot is entirely all about. CT knows that his champions are busted and overloaded, and not only cares but counts on it. Every time a project that CT is involved, it gains more attention than any other project, including his own previous project. All the fans and haters look into his next project to see the excitement, and the eyerolls of what overloaded broken abomination is going to hit the game. Take {{champion:142}} for instance, she had a skin, a summoner's icon, and loads of emotes given to her for not even about a month after her release, while so many other champions collect dust. That's because when Zoe was announced, she gained more attention than probably about 80% of LoL's champions BEFORE even being released. As marketing goes, whether it's good attention, or bad, it always brings $. Look at every skin line, there is always a CT champion, and not just on the side line, but at the fore front. {{champion:157}} was the captain of the crew in Odyssey. {{champion:19}} CT's only balanced champion because he was held down by someone way higher up, he admits it and loathed it. He wanted to overload WW to the max, but couldn't and that angered him. anyways WW is the main opposition to {{champion:555}} in the recent project skin line, Pyke being another overloaded champion. Now we have {{champion:142}} yet again as the main antagonist of the Star Guardian skin line. Not only do CT champion's gain skins faster than any other champion, they're at the forefront, never sidelined. On top of that when CT is making a champion he targets a specific audience, and cranks that champion's concept to 11. {{champion:122}} was released for the old warrior fanbase, {{champion:238}} for ninjas, {{champion:157}} for samurais, etc. This makes his already popular champions even more popular and making more $. Further proof of this is with every VS match, CT's champions win, ALWAYS! It doesn't matter who it is, CT's champion will win. Thresh won VS Lucian, Yasuo won VS Riven, Darius won VS Garen. CT's champion will always win. Worst part is Riot figured this out, now every other champion designer is doing the same thing. Balance is thrown out the window for the sake of marketing. Sadly it works, hence forth the whole buff the champion, release a skin, rinse and repeat. {{champion:555}} was already overloaded with his ult, and was uniquely designed as a carry support instead of traditional support, and because of that became popular and became the forefront of the project skins, thus getting even more buffs. Champions that are already overloaded and broken become more buffed, while unpopular champions collect more dust. That is until they get reworked, become an entirely different champion to which the name might as well be changed, and become overloaded and broken, and then nerfed down so another overloaded champion can get the spotlight {{champion:266}} anyone?" I've said this a while ago, and it still holds true. Marketing is where it is at now, not strategy, not balance, it is all about the money, which to be fair for a FREE TO PLAY game, money is very important. At some point though, the balance of the game needs to come first or else the game starts loosing steam, or does it? We are of the old player base, the old vanguard, we don't matter anymore. Just look at the new champion releases, look at the overloaded {{champion:555}} and {{champion:235}} two damaging supports. Why play a normal support like {{champion:40}} now? There is no point. I've already mentioned {{champion:412}} and he is still king of supports, and being set to the forefront thanks to Senna. Look at the reworks, especially the most controversial rework {{champion:266}} Jeevun 'Jag' Sidhu who reworked him stated that "The rework is not meant for Aatrox's old players." Basically flipping us old fans the bird in sacrifice to the new fans. Jag is also responsible for creating the overloaded {{champion:145}} too btw. So now not only was CT the exception, but is now the rule of how to make overloaded champions. Make an overloaded champion > preview overloaded champion > make them at the forefront of the skin line > put the at the forefront of other marketing projects (Yasuo, Darius, and Thresh are all previewed in "Legends of Runeterra") > Make them extremely popular (said three champions are usually on the forefront of Riot) > profit. Now something to be added on, it wasn't totally all of CT's fault too though, it wasn't just the balancing team's that lets his abominations go through either, it was the player bases'. Ironically the overloaded champion machine didn't start with Darius … it started with {{champion:64}} . Lee Sin was the very first overloaded champion, a champion that Old Riot was going to put on the chopping block because he seemed too powerful. It was the fan base that spared Lee Sin, and kept him to be released as planned. CT and Jag saw this, and decided to successfully capitalize on it. For no matter how annoying it is to face an overloaded champion, they will always have a bigger fan base than the balanced champions. They're giving what the players want, and now it is time for us old players to go in favour of the new ones, and the cycle will repeat again and again until the game dies.
: Burst builds are becoming the norm, and it sucks.
I see overloaded champions becoming the norm, all thanks to CertainlyT.
: Is Thresh A Tank?
Thresh is one of the many Abominations created from the infamous CT. He is a Warden, playmaker, highly utility, ranged poker support champion, who can also be a Marksmen, and rather successfully but hard. Like all other CT champions his kit is still overloaded, however due to his popularity, and the fact that he was support, all support players were forced to learn how to face him. I was one of them, and even then it's a nightmare due to all his utilities. He broke the support role in two to this day still, and will always be top 3 support picks. That will never change due to his popularity, and his overloaded kit. His creation spawned other questionable support creations like Pyke, and now Senna. God help you if you main a support that is countered by Thresh, you'll always have a risky pick, or forcefully ban him while other hard counters get through. CT is a terrible champion designer but man does he know how to market like a boss. Reason all his champions are the most popular and will always win in VS matches. He knows how to sell like there is no tommorow.
: Calling sylas's kit without his ultimate overloaded is just unintelligent, the only reason he is anywhere near good in pro play, is because they always have good engage ultimates that sylas can steal because they actually know how to draft. At all ranks in soloque sylas has a low winrate (about 46-47) because they play solo carry champions like riven and darius and kaisa and the like whos ultimate sylas is terrible with. And complaining about pyke is just {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} Thresh is a certainlyT champion and he is infinitely better than pyke. Most of your other stuff is pretty true though.
> [{quoted}](name=EternalDominate,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LXeIfo2o,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-21T20:03:54.472+0000) > > Calling sylas's kit without his ultimate overloaded is just unintelligent, the only reason he is anywhere near good in pro play, is because they always have good engage ultimates that sylas can steal because they actually know how to draft. At all ranks in soloque sylas has a low winrate (about 46-47) because they play solo carry champions like riven and darius and kaisa and the like whos ultimate sylas is terrible with. And complaining about pyke is just {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} Thresh is a certainlyT champion and he is infinitely better than pyke. Most of your other stuff is pretty true though. Fully disagree sir with {{champion:517}} his basic abilities are formed in either two ways. Either option A. his basic abilities are garbage and he fully relies on his powerful ultimate stealing capability, this would more than likely make him a weak champion. B. his basic abilities are overloaded and powerful because he really doesn't have an ultimate, and it is determined by what ultimate his opponents have, but his abilities are powerful enough to cover that problem. Thus making him a balancing nightmare. But hey right at his release, he became featured in Lux's comic, and became a major player in Demacian society, while other champions collect dust. Hence forth the whole attention grab for $, older champions take a back seat. You've also proven my other point, since we're so used to CT overloaded champions, we have forgotten what overloaded means. In the more balanced era of League, giving a champion ONE mobility move was usually a powerful advantage over immobile champions, and was hard to balance accordingly. Hence forth the mobility creep leading to power creep problem we have today. Here Sylas has 1 dash, and 2 gap closures, yep we have lost the meaning of overloaded. Another thing, and I don't get why the forums have a hard on with this, win rates are not the crutch of balance. What is his ban rate? What is his pick rate? At what elos? Though lower tier really doesn't matter as much. Is the champion still fun to play with and against when in a good spot? It's a lot more than just win rate, something the forums refuse to understand or learn. Secondly {{champion:555}} is the perfect example even with {{champion:412}} is around. I've played support role in season 1 to 5 era, and I know what Thresh did to support role. He flipped the table, and cracked the support role in two. His overloaded kit made so that only champions that contend with him function, and the ones he countered basically removed. He did to the support role what {{champion:58}} and {{champion:24}} did to the top lane, breaking the role and lane, determining which champions can play, and introduced ranged champions to top lane. Thresh was the sole reason {{champion:25}} became number 1 god tier support pick in Season 4 leading to her victory skin. He will always be top three contenders with support role, forever and ever. What does this have to do with {{champion:555}}? Because as mentioned Pyke is the result of following the CT problem, he is a result of just overloading new current champions these days, and this time for the support role. He even has a grab ability like Thresh, Nautilus, and Blitzcrank does. Anyway Pyke follows the CT paradigm, make an overloaded champion, put him at the forefront of a skin line and make a skin for him, A LEGENDARY ONE TOO, buff him to sell said skin, might nerf him in Season 10, might not, rinse and repeat with a new champion. Further to prove he is overloaded, lets look at his ultimate. An ultimate that that auto-kills a champion when at certain HP past shields, gap closes on top of the target, can recast it for free, AND give bonus gold to him and the last assisting ally. It's a combination of {{champion:6}} and {{champion:122}} with a dash of gold gain, and gap closure. Darius specifically was at the time of released considered overloaded and broken due to his ultimate reset. Especially when comparing with another champion with a similar execute but no reset {{champion:86}}. There was no point in picking Garen since Darius did what he did but better. {{champion:555}} is currently better than {{champion:412}} right now, and only for now. As mentioned Thresh will never drop from the top 3 support picks, never. However just because Thresh exists doesn't mean that other champions like Pyke are not a problem. Further on that, just because any CT champions exists, doesn't mean other champions are not a problem. In fact just the opposite since every new, and some reworked champions, are become overloaded, hard to balance, not fun to fight against, rule breaking, and broken.
Slim Şhady (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Princess Bunhead,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LXeIfo2o,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-20T17:52:09.106+0000) > > The game currently sucks donkey balls, due to an abundance of dmg, mobility and snowball (thanks plates, but no thanks - how about giving no gold?). I remember when only a handful of champions had crazy mobility, and when assassins had to poke you to 50-60% health at least, before all-inning... > > Riot: But mobile champions are played more! > > You think? It's not just because they are "more fun", due to more options, it's simply that the mobility makes them flat out better, in this misposition-slightly-and-explode meta you're apparently striving for. As they are better at punishing mispositioning, and escaping mispositioning. So kindly, fuck you, get a brain and fix this game. > > Game primed for me at S4 to mid S5, which was the last season the game was good. Been a roll downhill, caught in a filled outdoor mobile toilet (yes, that's an analogy for your shit game). > > Do like WoW, introduce a S4/S5 game mode, and look as a horde of players change game modes. Which in turn would cement just how shit the current iteration of League is. I didnt mean to be so mean in general, but yes, I agree, champions are just overloaded, I mean look at garen/warwick idk E, compared to Akalis E, garen spins, warwick gets dmg reduction and fears people , Akali dashes backwards , throws a shuriken that deals damage , if hit champion/shroud, can be recasted to dash again to that spot , its just overloaded ^^
> [{quoted}](name=Slim Şhady,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LXeIfo2o,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-09-20T18:15:40.558+0000) > > I didnt mean to be so mean in general, but yes, I agree, champions are just overloaded, I mean look at garen/warwick idk E, compared to Akalis E, garen spins, warwick gets dmg reduction and fears people , Akali dashes backwards , throws a shuriken that deals damage , if hit champion/shroud, can be recasted to dash again to that spot , its just overloaded ^^ Wall of text incoming, TLDR below Well it CERTAINLY doesn't have to do with a CERTAINLY Senior Game Designer who is infamous for always making obnoxious, overloaded, and broken champions, who always, ALWAYS, breaks the rules of the game. Which causes several issues, removal parts of said champions kits, moving them around into new roles, and nerfing them to the ground because they just can not ever be balanced, nuh-uh no siree! … CertainlyT is a terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE game designer. Anyone who can code, make champions, and rub two brain cells together can easily make an overloaded broken champion that breaks the rules of the game. It takes true skill to make a balanced, play by the rules champion, that is still interesting and fun for all. What CT is a very professional at is MARKETING, which is what the new team at Riot is entirely all about. CT knows that his champions are busted and overloaded, and not only cares but counts on it. Every time a project that CT is involved, it gains more attention than any other project, including his own previous project. All the fans and haters look into his next project to see the excitement, and the eyerolls of what overloaded broken abomination is going to hit the game. Take {{champion:142}} for instance, she had a skin, a summoner's icon, and loads of emotes given to her for not even about a month after her release, while so many other champions collect dust. That's because when Zoe was announced, she gained more attention than probably about 80% of LoL's champions BEFORE even being released. As marketing goes, whether it's good attention, or bad, it always brings $. Look at every skin line, there is always a CT champion, and not just on the side line, but at the fore front. {{champion:157}} was the captain of the crew in Odyssey. {{champion:19}} CT's only balanced champion because he was held down by someone way higher up, he admits it and loathed it. He wanted to overload WW to the max, but couldn't and that angered him. anyways WW is the main opposition to {{champion:555}} in the recent project skin line, Pyke being another overloaded champion. Now we have {{champion:142}} yet again as the main antagonist of the Star Guardian skin line. Not only do CT champion's gain skins faster than any other champion, they're at the forefront, never sidelined. On top of that when CT is making a champion he targets a specific audience, and cranks that champion's concept to 11. {{champion:122}} was released for the old warrior fanbase, {{champion:238}} for ninjas, {{champion:157}} for samurais, etc. This makes his already popular champions even more popular and making more $. Further proof of this is with every VS match, CT's champions win, ALWAYS! It doesn't matter who it is, CT's champion will win. Thresh won VS Lucian, Yasuo won VS Riven, Darius won VS Garen. CT's champion will always win. Worst part is Riot figured this out, now every other champion designer is doing the same thing. Balance is thrown out the window for the sake of marketing. Sadly it works, hence forth the whole buff the champion, release a skin, rinse and repeat. {{champion:555}} was already overloaded with his ult, and was uniquely designed as a carry support instead of traditional support, and because of that became popular and became the forefront of the project skins, thus getting even more buffs. Champions that are already overloaded and broken become more buffed, while unpopular champions collect more dust. That is until they get reworked, become an entirely different champion to which the name might as well be changed, and become overloaded and broken, and then nerfed down so another overloaded champion can get the spotlight {{champion:266}} anyone? I mean look no further than {{champion:517}} a champion completely overloaded and impossible to balance. His kit without his ult is broken, and overloaded enough, but has to be because his ult could be any opponent's ult so it can't be relied on for a kit. He has a ranged skill shot with a slow blast, a targeted dash that gives life and even more life when low on life with a magic shield, a dash with another skill shot enemy dash. That alone is every melee's wet dream. On top of that Riot released a video bragging that "We couldn't even conceive this champion's design before, well now we have!" WELL NO %$#@ SHERLOCK! That design is an abomination, impossible to balance, and broken beyond belief! The old team never conceived it because the old team knew that was just a nightmare to balance! {{champion:13}}, {{champion:38}}, and {{champion:24}} are enough of monstrosities impossible to be balanced! It's also sad because a lot of people go "Everyone says when champion X is overloaded when they don't know they definition of overloaded! They're wrong, should learn to play the champion, should learn to play the game! Quit the game!" That's because we have gotten so used to overloaded that some of us have forgotten what it means! AND THE BAR KEEPS GOING HIGHER! TLDR: Riot knows they've broken the game, the employees know their champions are becoming overloaded. It's all done on purpose so they could get popular, release a boatload of skins, sell the skins, get money, rinse and repeat, balanced be thrown out the window. All because CertainlyT started it, and now people are following his designs, even though he is completely terrible at champion designs and game balance. CT however a professional at marketing which is what the new Riot team is entirely about, and do not care at all about the game being balanced.
: Kaisa is not an ADC, Pyke is not a support, and Jax is not a fighter
They're Abominations, a bunch of different things rolled up into one. Giving them less weaknesses and counters and resulting into being over powered. Usually comes to a champion that is remarked with more than one tag. I've heard Jax as a diver, slayer, skirmisher, fighter, and even a tank and Juggernaut. Honestly I find all those descriptions accurate and one of his core problems. Pyke was a support assassin. Now he is this support assassin, slayer, skirmisher, that counters his own counters, tanks and especially with his ult. It only starts from there, as he can kill everything. Kai'sa is a Vayne copy, which Vayne is another Abomination being an Assassin ADC that pretty much counters everything, can 1v1 anything, and goes god mode late game. Vayne's only possible balancing factor is that she can have a weak early game pre level 6, which can be exploited. However people have a hard time closing games in solo que, so she can thrive. Kai'sa is the samething being her copy, but without a weak early game.
Smyrage (EUNE)
: The Pyke problem started earlier than his release
Assassins have taken over mid so badly that mages are moving back to top, like Swain, Vladimir, and Viktor(for a while there), and this time I can't blame them. Mid is way to fast paced for a late game scaling mages so they have to go to other slow, scaling lanes. Which causes more problems like the release of said Pyke.
: pyke. an assasin with stealth. mobility, fast heal IN COMBAT a hook, an execute, slow. stun
My biggest gripe about Pyke is the the fact that his execute is a true execute that goes through shields. Shields are suppose to be an Assassin's counter, so why does he get a out of jail free card against his counters? On top of having everything else loaded onto his ult. Darius' ult was massive with the reset back then, now imagine that but with a execute that goes through shields.
: Maybe an unpopular opinion among old Aatrox mains but hear me out. Old Aatrox cannot come back as a Darkin. That concept was bastardized since the release of Kayn and the lore changed even more with the full rework. No point in deleting the new Aatrox just as there was no point in deleting the old one. With some creativity Old Aatrox can be reintroduced as a new champion and given his old look and voice over as a darkin skin. Old Aatrox could easily be a Void Champion.
> [{quoted}](name=Statchecky,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=orobgNQT,comment-id=0021,timestamp=2019-08-21T04:59:12.729+0000) > > Maybe an unpopular opinion among old Aatrox mains but hear me out. > > Old Aatrox cannot come back as a Darkin. That concept was bastardized since the release of Kayn and the lore changed even more with the full rework. > > No point in deleting the new Aatrox just as there was no point in deleting the old one. > > With some creativity Old Aatrox can be reintroduced as a new champion and given his old look and voice over as a darkin skin. > > Old Aatrox could easily be a Void Champion. This is probably the best idea. I loved old Aatrox to bits and pieces and would trade him in a heartbeat. However I know that won't ever happen, and to NOT call old Aatrox a balance nightmare is wrong. Is the new one any better? I don't know, personally I don't think so. Having said that due to his Q being able to miss probably makes new Aatrox easier to balance. I think that's why the new Aatrox path was taken, it is more of an experiment. This is probably the first champion that basically requires everything in one ability. All in all even if they bring back old Aatrox, the magic that made him what he was is dead. His mysterious devil inspiring bloodlust is gone, even his second lore of demonic invader is gone. There is no sense in bringing that one back in place of this new one, especially now his popularity is increasing. Though that could be because people are not threatening to ban people simply for having the cursor over him. People really did threaten to ban people for trying to pick Aatrox, it made playing him harder since pressure already begun before the game started. One of the reasons why his pick rate was low, especially back then when bans were more possible. You bring up a great point though. Old Aatrox can come back as a new Void champion. Make him more balancable, and perhaps by having a stance dance stick, since that was what he was loved for the most, well second to his lines and mysterious being. Bring his old voice actor back, make him a Void champion that corrupts, and feasts on violence (since all Void champions feast on something). He could even be the one that corrupted the Darkin, which would in a way be a nod of him being the first Darkin.
: When's the last time you actually had fun playing League?
Been having fun this season surprisingly enough. Now if you're talking about most fun and enjoyment? Back in season 5 when it was considered the golden era after tanks got balanced with Sion, Sejuani, and Gragas touches. The only ban list was basically LeBlanc since she was the only assassin that could solo kill the carry. Every other assassin needed help from the team. Any strategy, and team comp could work if played well enough, no super meta breaking champions other than LB, it was a blast.
: And? We have twenty ranged rightclickers that seem to be the non plus ultra in league but people arent allowed to enjoy melee autoattackers? The is no difference between them they all use their abilities to stay away from targets and just autoattack yada yada.
> [{quoted}](name=GayFluffyUnicorn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=orobgNQT,comment-id=000500020001,timestamp=2019-08-20T16:47:41.884+0000) > > And? We have twenty ranged rightclickers that seem to be the non plus ultra in league but people arent allowed to enjoy melee autoattackers? > > The is no difference between them they all use their abilities to stay away from targets and just autoattack yada yada. I believe the problem stems from the fact that melee auto attack carries have been impossible to balance since the dawn of time. Release Xin Zhao is a perfect example. They need to have crazy numbers in order to get into range of the carries let alone fight them. Ranged ADCs were balanced around that if anyone, tanks included, got to them unprotected and at a good amount of health, they would die. Even then ranged ADCs suffered from problems as you mentioned being the fact that there are so many and all are the basically the same, that there is only 3 distinct carries per meta. The prime ADC, the ADC that counters the prime ADC, and the counter ADC to the counter ADC of the the prime ADC that is usually countered by the prime ADC. Hence the Trinity ADCs of the meta problem. It's the problem that auto attacks can't be played around, you can dodge abilities and skill shots but not auto attacks. So melee carries are given tools and kits that give them support levels of denial to survive, and also use items 10x more than other classes. Yasuo has Windwall, and gains double crit from crit items, so he just needs 2 crit items as opposed to 4. Tryndamere has his ult and needs 3 crit items as opposed to 4. Yi has alpha strike and meditate, and uses AS items 10x better than anyone else due to his active passive and double strike passive. Jax has Dodge, the only thing to beat auto attacks, and uses trinity force, and SoS 10x better then anyone else. Fiora has %true damage which she heals from based on AD so she uses AD 10x more than anyone else, and has a parry to deny everything. The list goes on and on. Old Aatrox suffered from this problem as well. He had the to this day the most powerful and overloaded passive. A passive that gives boosted stats, AND a undeniable, untouchable revive. Self revives are hard to balance in of itself but old Aatrox's was special in that you couldn't stop it as opposed to Zac and Anivia. Yorick lost his revive because it was too much, and justly well received to be gone. Just ult the Vayne and watch her 1v5. Now I miss old Aatrox too, but mainly for different reasons. I miss his calm, professional, devil attitude as opposed to what we have now. A raging, suicidal, anime emo edgy teenage demon. Which with today's popylarity in anime, doesn't surprise me in the slightest, just disappointed. I also find his new kit boring, just rely on his Q, his auto attacks is useful only when his passive is up. Sure auto attacking reduces the timer, that's not enough. Also him trading auto attacks just to reduce his passive timer usually means a lost trade. If his kit revolved around using both his passive, and his Q, weaving both in and out together. Then I'd say he'd be in a much better spot both in balanced and fun wise. Edit: I also miss Aatrox having a late game. I miss anything not called ADCs having a late game. At some point only Hyper Carries are going to have the late game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yaskamasandwich,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4TAZvo9K,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2019-08-19T02:23:03.289+0000) > > I loved the old Aatrox. I find the new kit boring really, having everything based around hitting with his Q is just plain boring. If it was more like his copy Riven, or Darius where you weave Auto Attacks, or suppose to, in between casting then I'm all for that. Instead it is all in his q, one button, at least before you had to calculate when to stance dance. I'd play him more but people threatened me, and left games whenever I picked him. You do know that you want to be auto attacking for Aatrox's passive, right? Said passive comes up more often if you land your Q properly or are auto attacking an enemy champion. You're supposed to weave Q with his autos, and his enhanced auto is even called Deathbringer's STANCE.
> [{quoted}](name=Reaversal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4TAZvo9K,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2019-08-19T02:37:07.259+0000) > > You do know that you want to be auto attacking for Aatrox's passive, right? Said passive comes up more often if you land your Q properly or are auto attacking an enemy champion. > > You're supposed to weave Q with his autos, and his enhanced auto is even called Deathbringer's STANCE. You mean that same passive that auto attacking a champion reduces it by a few seconds. As opposed to Riven and Darius who need to weave in auto attacks and get instant results? Riven gains a buff between each cast, Darius get stacks of bleed for his ultimate. Aatrox gets ... a few seconds off his passive. While yes you have to strategize weaving your Q between W and E, it still feels boring to me. It just feels like Pantheon with spamming Q. Riot seems to love the Q button spam ... anyway for old Aatrox if you just turned W on for life steal when low life, you wouldn't always win. You'd have to calculate how much life you would gain from life steal, how much damage it deals to the enemy, and when is a good time for damage even when low on HP. You had to gamble it, just life steal spam can result in death by being bursted, so burst them first. Of course go in when you had the right moment was key as well. Sometimes flinging yourself to the enemy to drain tank and deal no damage, but revive after because they blew everything on you works wonders as your team jumps on them. Taking one for the team as it were. Least that's how I won my battles with old Aatrox. Not to mention what Fear the Kayn already mentioned, Rhaast already covers ad caster drain tank. New Aatrox just feels like Rhaast but built for top lane instead of jungle. Oh one more thing that is grinding my gears about the rework. I like late game, but hate ADCs, Aatrox was one of the last few late game melee champions top lane. Now he just feels like a mid game champion as the majority of every other melee champion is. That style of roster is getting smaller every year.
: How does Riot think a veteran Aatrox and Panth main feels about their reworks?
I loved the old Aatrox. I find the new kit boring really, having everything based around hitting with his Q is just plain boring. If it was more like his copy Riven, or Darius where you weave Auto Attacks, or suppose to, in between casting then I'm all for that. Instead it is all in his q, one button, at least before you had to calculate when to stance dance. I'd play him more but people threatened me, and left games whenever I picked him. I'd forgive all of that, all of his failed rework if it wasn't for two things. Firstly screwing up his lore. It is very obvious Riot had no idea what to do with his lore. More importantly they destroyed his epic and devilish attitude. Before he was the calm devil who would entice you into a blood lust. Now he is just an edgy teen emo b**** wanting to commit suicide. In fact it feels like THAT'S EVERY SINGLE DARKIN NOW! It is so depressing just to hear him, and even play him while muted. Old Aatrox never yelled, NOT ONCE! It wasn't his style. Cool, calm, collected, he was a professional. Now he just screams, whine, cries, rages over just wanting to commit suicide. THIS IS NOT HEALTHY TO GAMES, AND NOT HEALTHY TO LISTEN TO!!! Whoever thought of that idea needs to go to the higher ups and ask for some help. I remember Riot used to been very critical with voice over, voices, and attitudes. I remember an article emphasizing that with the release and promotion of Jinx. Why she is so loved and what not.
: How the hell do you counter Jax?
I find Jax an interesting and unique champion. He is the only melee bruiser left with a powerful late game. Every other melee bruiser has been nerfed to early or mid game. Jax is the only one left untouched. I think it's the fact that his kit is made for beating most ADCs, and he just synergizes with most items 10x more than any other champ. The spear for example he uses beyond its maximum efficiency. How can you counter a champ like this other than counter picking? He seems entirely based around counter picking as well. Even then if the game progresses he counters his counters just for the fact that once again he uses items beyond what they're capable of.
Pyregent (NA)
: My entire team was support mains that got autofilled
I could see support more popular than jungle and top now. Jungle for having more pressure than the ADC to carry games. Top being a pressured by 1 screw up and it'll just be a repeated mess.
: So then how do you explain Rammus or Malphite? Because consistent DPS does fuck all against them
> [{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dEHz8H14,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2019-08-01T19:15:39.943+0000) > > So then how do you explain Rammus or Malphite? Because consistent DPS does fuck all against them They were designed in a time where while there was a basic design for classes, it varied depending on champion to champion. Malphite and Rammus countered Marksmen with their special bonus to armor and burst level of damage. However they were countered by Mages, when most tanks counter mages. Even being forced to buy a single MR item hurts their kits and their job at bursting the Marksmen faster. It is the same vein as well ... Vayne being a Marksmen that countered Assassins, while ironically have troubles killing tanks despite her % true damage. This was when she was balanced mind you, and was because her range put her into the danger zone where tanks could CC her. Before Riot made her the abomination she is today, she was a bad pick because of her short short range, and only single target damage with no AoE. When a champion's counters is different, so too was the class that counters them. It is usually the class that is normally countered by them that is countering. For example Malphite as a tank getting countered by any mage, when it is usually vice versa for other tanks. Each class had a different type of champion with different level of power spikes, different kits, different goals, and different counters. For example in the early days while most tanks were early game, Malphite, Rammus, Sejuani, Nautilus, and Maokai were late game tanks. Balance was dependent on the champion, while the basic design was there as a guide line. This was to prevent what is happening today, just pick the OP champion since all champions are essentially the same.
: Didn't riot literally say "drain tank bad op unbalanceable" as a reason to let him rot and rework? Now it's the central part of his kit? Like, what?
> [{quoted}](name=GayFluffyUnicorn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UEKrVbsz,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-30T10:35:23.572+0000) > > Didn't riot literally say "drain tank bad op unbalanceable" as a reason to let him rot and rework? > Now it's the central part of his kit? Like, what? It was more of "auto attack drain tank op with revive op, unbalancable." There are many drain tanks like Sylas and Swain. Warwick is the only drain tank that is auto attack but relies on his opponent's, and his health bar to do it. They both have to be low which risks him getting bursted. I still miss calm, cool, collected, auto attack Aatrox, instead of the depressing, emo, yelling, ad caster one we have now. RIP old friend, RIP.
: Let’s look at why tanks are currently not of high value
Another thing is that while you did stated that defensive items give less, especially as Riot keeps nerfing them and as the game progresses into mid game now not even late game. Top all of that off with offensive items give EVERYTHING! Take {{item:3139}} for example. It gives good AD, 10% Lifesteal, MR, and an active that removes CC. Ironically it is one of the weaker offense items that are built in niche situations. Might get built more now that {{champion:82}} rework is here. {{item:3072}} is a great example. Massive 80 AD, 20% lifesteal, a shield, A FREAKING SHIELD ON A CLASS THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE SQUISHY! {{item:3812}} Another example from same vein. Massive 80 AD, 15% healed for damage dealt so works on abilities, 10% CDR for some reason, and a weird 30% reduced to bleed damage item. Why are offensive items getting better defensive items than defense items? I only play tanks that can use {{item:3053}} because it is a better defense item than any of the items tanks posses now, while giving more damage. It's funny when you're seeing non-tanks, like support {{champion:99}} use tank masteries better thank tanks. Even {{champion:54}} uses Comet. The change of CDR being from a tank stat to a everyman's offense stat is what broke the tank. in Pre-Season 6 era, I wanted people to use their big moves on me as a tank, if I died and it turned into a 4v5 but the enemy team used all their ultimates to kill me, then my team won. My team could use their ultimates on the back line unfettered, and we'd win. Even with 40% CDR most ultimates would be 40 to 60 second cooldown, however not deal that much damage since you'd have to sacrifice damage Now you could use your ultimates every 20-30 seconds with massive damage. Blow up the tank, blow up the team with your low CD non-ultimate moves, win.
: You're getting downvoted into oblivion, yet you are sort of right. When the top most picked top lane and junglers are non tanks... {{champion:92}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:121}}{{champion:8}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:114}} ... ...But {{champion:113}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:78}} have 5-15% pick rate (rare for actual tanks) and decent win rates, and {{champion:245}} {{champion:105}} is building {{item:3025}} then it must be a tank meta... even if most other tanks aren't being played much, "tank" Fizz and Ekko were closer to bruisers, weak and non tanks were still being played more than tanks where they compete. It's like when mid has lots of assassins, bot is 90+% marksmen but {{champion:74}} has 2% pick rate bot, {{champion:115}} has 1%, {{champion:50}} 5% (inflated by rework hype), so it must be a mage takeover and marksmen are unplayable.
> [{quoted}](name=Hemulen Magi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5fhHwER5,comment-id=0001000000000002,timestamp=2019-07-11T13:56:27.837+0000) > > You're getting downvoted into oblivion, yet you are sort of right. When the top most picked top lane and junglers are non tanks... > {{champion:92}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:121}}{{champion:8}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:114}} ... > > ...But {{champion:113}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:78}} have 5-15% pick rate (rare for actual tanks) and decent win rates, and {{champion:245}} {{champion:105}} is building {{item:3025}} then it must be a tank meta... even if most other tanks aren't being played much, "tank" Fizz and Ekko were closer to bruisers, weak and non tanks were still being played more than tanks where they compete. > > It's like when mid has lots of assassins, bot is 90+% marksmen but {{champion:74}} has 2% pick rate bot, {{champion:115}} has 1%, {{champion:50}} 5% (inflated by rework hype), so it must be a mage takeover and marksmen are unplayable. That is kind of how it always goes. Not too long ago it was considered a "tank meta" because only two tank champions were broken, Nautilus and Poppy. All because they killed their counters, Marksmen. However not mentioning the fact that Marksmen's early game was nerfed to high heaven, while their late game was buffed to being unmatchable. It wasn't even just those two champs, every champ not named a Marksmen wanted the game to finish fast, or else be useless late game. In the end Marksmen early game was buffed, and ALL tanks were nerfed because of only two.
: TK top needs to be hotfixed
Usually aim to at least prolong the game if possible. It is very hard yes, however he does drop like a sack of very heavy bricks. He can't really do anything in team fights other than eating his carry, which can back fire since his team damage drops depending on the situation. He gets kited super easily, and his ult does nothing for team fights. I know that is a bad solution, but found it as the best working tactic. Especially with him being a super punishing lane bully like a Juggernaut Patheon.
AR URF (NA)
: Pyke should not be able to execute through shields.
Pyke's executing through shields is the only gripe I have against him. Assassins are supposed to be countered by tanks. Shields is basically a tank ability, sure it is not only for tanks, but a lot of tanks rely on shields. Sion, Nautilus, Urgot as a Juggernaut. His ult shuts down the ability that is suppose to counter him. On top of that his ult has a whole whack of other abilities. It is as if someone in Riot wanted to make the most powerful execute. Say combine Darius' ult and Urgot's ult. Too that off as a gap closure which could be good or bad. Wouldn't mind it if it didn't have that Urgot true execute, since again Assassins are relatively suppose to be shut down by tanks. Shields are mostly tank ability.
: Why does riot rework champs if they are going to make them feel entirely different to play
When it comes to champion reworks, usually the lore and attitude of the champion is much more important than the kit. So long as the kit keeps some of the aspects it once had. The kits need to become updated and changed that is a must. Having said that the kit and role changes, along with the lore and attitude changes are why Mordekaiser's Juggernaut rework, and now the Aatrox's rework are considered colossal failures. Mordekaiser became from a solo lane champion to a bottom lane duo champion. Then there were a lot of updates and re-reworks to change Mordekaiser back to solo lane and what not, huge mess. His new rework though seems to be a huge success, and very well deserved and thankful. He keeps his cold, dominating, masterful attitude. Aatrox kept nothing from his old kit, even if it is considered toxic he could have kept some of his auto attack aspects. His name is even designed as "Auto Attacks Rock!" Warwick kept his life steal auto attack aspect, and he is a massive success. The part that is horrible the most with Aatrox's rework is his lore and attitude changes. The Darkin lore was an epic mystery and a new enemy faction. Where it was the Frozen Watchers, Shadow Isles, the Void, and then the Darkin. It was obvious the Darkin were the weapons but that revealed more questions. Who made them? Why are they demonic in nature? What was their goal? Then with all the retcons and then the straw that broke the camel's back with Aatrox's rework. All Darkin are fallen Ascendants, the Frozen Watchers retconned to the Void, and now the Shadow Isles are just second rate villains to the big bad Void. Basically only the Void, Shurima, and Targon stuff matter now. The other worst aspect with Aatrox's rework was the attitude change. He went from epic, cold, calculating demon to a boring, yelling, raging, depressed, emo, suicidal bi$ch. I can't play him anymore even when I mute him. I can still picture him raging, crying, and wanting to commit suicide even when silent. That is not healthy, or smart, to make a suicidal champion! I remember Morello mentioned the important aspect to making champions was their attitudes because well you're playing them for 30 to 45 minutes, that being back when games lasted that long.
: I absolutely accept that those who build damage and %pen should be able to kill tanky targets
I preferred the old ways when it came to late game: It depended what champion you picked, and how said champion fit into your team comp. Malphite, Maokai, and Sejuani, and Sion (when he reached a certain amount of stacks) were late game god tanks. While Lucian, Quinn, Graves, and Draven were early game Marksmen. It wasn't based on class power spikes, it was based on the champion's kit and stats on power spikes. Now it depends entirely on class for late game, which killed the creativity and basically made every champion the same in their classes. Before it was just a marksmen problem of having only 3 good marksmen per meta because they were all the same. Now every class has only 3 viable champions at most, because might as well pick the most op champions of their classes if you're going to pick one. Having said that I only see Sion as the only tank viable in this meta.
: How To Get the most fun out of League
Honestly I just stopped playing ranked for years, and the game has become much more enjoyable. I also think Fortnite is taking all the crazy kiddos and that helps.
1542 (NA)
: yo guys, any plans for malz?
I think he is stuck in a tricky position, this being even before the rework that broke him more so. That is he has a couple point and click abilities, one of them being a CC. I think whenever a champion has point and click abilities, they always seem out of order. Look at Pantheon for example, the point and click master who always is having troubles being balanced.
: Did you even notice that Neeko has been changed to up to 3 second root to any target beyond the first hit now? Sorry to break it to you: Her entire reason for a 3 second root IS because she's weak. Her Move speed on ult won't even be used much, because people usually Zhonya it, because she can't survive otherwise.
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c9weyZBK,comment-id=00100000,timestamp=2019-02-22T01:52:09.970+0000) > > Did you even notice that Neeko has been changed to up to 3 second root to any target beyond the first hit now? > > Sorry to break it to you: Her entire reason for a 3 second root IS because she's weak. > > Her Move speed on ult won't even be used much, because people usually Zhonya it, because she can't survive otherwise. Huh to be honest I missed that. That just makes me more sad, I remember Riot went through basically all CCs back then and reduced all 3 seconds CCs to 2 with the exception of Morg's. Now there is 2 three second CCs? Ay caramba
: A Compromise to make Morgana a little more viable, without actually making her OP
Personally wished her Q's binding was reduced from 3 seconds to 2. Then she can have whatever buff she wants. Like her increased MS boost towards her chained targets. That was a good buff due to all the mobility these days.
: Nasus’ scaling was never not okay. He was only ever not okay when his Wither was more disgusting than it is now and his E was being maxed as a way to acquire low-skill complete lane dominance. He shifted to mid game naturally over the course of power creep. It wasn’t Riot directly changing him to be that way. Hell I’d argue the moment Keystones were introduced was when he stopped being a late game champ since every scaling champ then had a more insane late game. --- Also go try her on PBE. Her passive damage is nowhere near her strongest asset (pretty sure every ADC out-DPS her).
> [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleeper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4YleZYwO,comment-id=001b0000,timestamp=2019-02-21T17:49:53.354+0000) > > Nasus’ scaling was never not okay. He was only ever not okay when his Wither was more disgusting than it is now and his E was being maxed as a way to acquire low-skill complete lane dominance. > > He shifted to mid game naturally over the course of power creep. It wasn’t Riot directly changing him to be that way. > > Hell I’d argue the moment Keystones were introduced was when he stopped being a late game champ since every scaling champ then had a more insane late game. > > --- > > Also go try her on PBE. Her passive damage is nowhere near her strongest asset (pretty sure every ADC out-DPS her). I agree that Nasus' scaling was okay, in fact how it should be done, I just remember people complained to high heaven that it wasn't. Haters were mad that Nasus put a timer on the game and there was no stopping it when it went off. I think it was because his was visual, you could see how many stacks he had. As opposed to Jax and Tristana who just hit a certain level and gained certain items and then BAM! It is over, but for Nasus you could ball park it with how well he was doing when timer was up. I guess that bothered people more, like slowly dieing to tanks as opposed to instant burst. Loads of haters about that, some legit, others were not. Yeah I remember his Wither being disgusting, however that is his only way to contribute into team fights. It had enough range when he ulted to wither the back line, that was only during his ult though and only not against the likes of Trist, Kog, and Twitch. His E I also took advantage of and agree it was bad. However I believe that was after he lost his late game throne, and needed an alternative. RIOT never gave a solution at the time and nerfed him, now he has buffs but is still only mid game. As for what made Nasus lose late game, I agree it was because of power creep, but Riot also helped with nerfing him into mid range while not touching scaling champions. Not that reverting all the nerfs helps at this point. I think it was less of keystones and more of the fact of every item has damage and cooldown reduction when it shouldn't. Before every ADC needed one defense item, that being GA, or else they would die. If they bought 2 defense items their damage would not be enough to take out the front line fast enough. Vayne having silver bolts was the exception. So vs Nasus the marksman needed to buy Quicksilver but then not have enough armor to survive an onslaught. Now that every item has damage, Marksmen don't need to pick and choose between defense, and offense, just pick every damaging item with defensive stats and go mow down the front line with a still strong defense. New GA being the perfect example of this. Having said that, glad to hear that Kayle's passive is not putting her over the top. Hopefully shows Riot is keeping tabs on her and trying not to over power her kit. Thank you for the info.
: Hey you know what, Kayle dealing true damage at level 16 is okay
I remember when my favourite champions, Aatrox and Nasus, were considered unhealthy because they put a timer on the game. Well not so much Aatrox due to being ignored champion pick, and his problematic life steal caught more hate. Nasus however was the very big famous Doge God that "I put a timer on the game and you have to win the game before your time is up, after that I win, PERIOD!" He was then nerfed to mid game tier and lost all of his late game godliness. Why is it okay that other champions put a timer on the game but not Nasus? Believe it or not he even did it in a more healthy way. He has a very exploitable and weak early game, AND has to farm up his Q, AND buy the most expensive 6 items, AND level up! Trist? Yasuo? Jax? They also don't need to interact with their lane opponent as well. They just need to level up and buy only some items. I just believe Nasus and Aatrox recieved more hate from haters and Riot listened to them and changed them from late game to early or mid game. Now I feel like Kayle will be in the same boat as the other broken Hyper Carries. Just level up, buy 2 items, win the game. Sure she is not out yet, but sure feels that way with her level 16 passive.
Naalith (NA)
: I have no clue how ADC mains play this role with any regularity.
Give it some time, then ADCs will be buffed to insane levels again. The cycle of power creep will continue until the end. Just look at Sylas bringing more balancing nightmares. Also the ADC buffs have pretty much already begun with the insane 50% stealth cool down Vayne. Anyways this is what happens when the front line meat shields explode too fast, now apply that burst to squishy targets. We're all squishies now.
: Delete One: Champion, Item, and Rune
The amount of champions on my list that have to be removed is too much to list off. Items would be also too much ... Runes would be ... all of them, revert them back to masteries. Preseason to 5 masteries. .... I don't think I would be a good employee for Riot haha.
: Were all remade champs worse than their original?
The biggest gripe of reworks that make them considered failures is more so of the attitude and lore changes. Galio was complained mainly because of his attitude changed. He went from a unqiue stoic guardian. Always prepared, vigilant, and guided while giving advice. He would tutor Shyvana to control her rage, Poppy in confidence and to move on from her tragic past. After his rework he was mostly compared to that giant jerk, or some compared him to Jayce. Jayce isn't a bad character, just why have two same attitude champions. I personally like the rework, he should be a Vanguard and not a mage ... warrior ... thing. He is more active in melee combat instead of a sniper. I can see the complaints in changing play styles. Swain was hated entirely based on looks and no Beatrice. His kit on the other hand, was considered perfecto by all, haters and lovers. His attitude, voice, everything else was good, it was his design that was considered a complete failure. It is the fact that he went from an old crippled man, with a walking stick and a six eyed bird, to a somewhat old muscle bound man with a claw hand like thing and no bird. People compared him to Vladimir, and considered he stole Vlad's rework. He even looks a bit like a older Vladimir with his hair style a bit matching. I personally agree, Swain was unique, even to his hair due. Now he is a copy pasted muscle mage, that seems to be the new fad these days. I prefer my mages and warlocks old, withered, and weak, but crafty, clever, and wise instead. However of all the reworks that are failures, Aatrox takes the cake and cries while eating it, absolute worst rework unchallenged. His rework makes the Juggernaut rework, including Morde, look successful. Everything that was Aatrox is no longer Aatrox. The only reason he is picked is because he is an early game power house who drops off just as bad as Pantheon, but is all better. This is an early game meta so of course pick the best early game champion. But that is the thing, old Aatrox was an auto attack late game destroyer when he got there. His revive was a late game changer that turned the tides when it was being used well. Auto attacks are also the best late game. Still continuing on, Aatrox's looks and lore are even worse. His old looks were jagged blades and armor, with a darkened, look to represent destruction and death of WAR. Now he is smooth and mostly red, looking like more of a plastic toy, what a joke. His lore rework destroyed League of Legends. It changed from a LEAGUE OF LEGENDARY HEROES FROM ACROSS THE PLANET AND COSMOS to League of Lovecraft. The Void is the big bad, what about the Shadow Isles? Or the Frozen Watchers? The Shadow Isles will probably turn into some innocent anti hero group or something. The Frozen Watchers even got retconned into the leaders of The Void, such a terrible shame. This is the same mistakes WoW made, changed a unique lore into just another Lovecraft story. Always happens when Lovecraft is involved. But it doesn't even end there, now for the worst part. So Aatrox's kit, and looks are completely different, but what about his attitude? Horrible, absolutely horrible, I mean AFFECTS YOUR HEALTH HORRIBLE! Whoever in Riot thought it was a good idea to make a champion seethe, whisper, rage while yelling, what have you about wanting to commit suicide and hates all life a good idea ... that person should be mentally checked. I think that person wants to commit suicide and should be helped not to do it. Listen to old Aatrox's audio file, you'll hear an awesome, fantastic, professional Demon God of War at his finest work. He had the best voice, attitude, and lines, no other champion could even be close to compete. Now he is a suicidal depressed emo bitch, to which again, wants to commit suicide. I sometimes have to take breaks from the game after playing him because he makes me so sad and super depressed from just listening to him. I could just mute him but that doesn't really work. Phew long winded rant there haha, Aatrox rework was a personal one. Also before I forget the man behind Aatrox's rework stated that the rework was NOT for Aatrox's mains. ... Then what the f%$k is the point of a rework for then?
Moody P (NA)
: Fighters have strayed too far from their original designs
Well said, I remember the time in season 4 where this was how fighters (divers, juggernauts, etc.) had to build. In season 2 it was ironically worse for item selection but godly late game, go meta golem or go home. In season 4 I sometimes bought BotRK and LW as a fighter if there were a lot of tanks. Sure I wouldn't be able to kill the Marksmen easily but taking out their front line faster sure achieved victory easily. Had to keep 3 defense items though, usually 1 armor, 1 hp, and 1 MR. A lot more classes used to scale godly late game, Malphite, Maokai, Sejuani as late game tanks. Nasus, Jax, Olaf as late game fighters. Hecarim, J4, Shyvana as divers. Now out of that list only Jax scales late game, and that's because he's an AA AS Marksmen damage reliant champion with Juggernaut style damage and defense, Diving capabilities, and Assassin burst potential. I am not sure he really scales hard anymore since despite his defenses he feels like he explodes like a Marksmen. Riot enforced Marksmen and AA reliant champions late game only. To which we are lead to right now being a burst or be bursted meta. Have to burst the Marksmen down hard and fast before late game arrives. Or else the Marksmen will look at everyone funny and remove them from the game when the timer is up. Before late game was decided by strategic team comp. Now team comp is designed by most broken champions with most broken burst damage capabilities. Strategy is out the window.
: Nasus needs to reaffrim his identity
I recall a long time ago Riot was considering a full Nasus rework and removing his stacking kit. They felt it was too toxic while coupled with his Wither. Guess they semi reworked him from the late game God Doge to a mid game Not-a-God Doge. I remember the old trick was to Wither the carry while at the front lines. If they bought a Quicksilver Sash, their damage drops. If they didn't their damage dropped drastically compared to my ADC. That was my team fighting contribution that worked well enough. Or use Wither to avoid Assassins not named Rengar killing my ADC as well. Then Mercurial Scimitar, and Nasus' Wither range nerf removed all capabilities of Nasus being able to team fight and having any relevance in the late game. Everything else like power creep in general just added on to removing him from late game.
: vayne needs to be held to the same standarts as melee carries
Fiora is even a problematic champion with her kit being based around % true damage, despite the opponent being able to be play around it with the vitals.
: This game would be better off without Yasuo in it
I don't think anything will happen to Yasuo now that both Zoe and reworked Akali exist. It is the new state of the game to rework every champion into rules breaking champion. That way everything will be the same, unfun, and "balanced."
: REMOVE. WINDWALL.
His windwall makes perfect sense on a support champion. Support champions are suppose to have massive denial power. It being a damage type champion of any kind is the problem. I think the idea of it came from a pro player saying it would be cool if a melee carry had a massive support denial button. It was Riot's fault for listening.
: Someone that reads the flow of the seasons. GOSU While i don't like this one shot with no items meta; I do agree that Keystones is when most of the problems started. Giving every champion hybrid damage. Removing runes ( old runes ) was the last nail in the coffin. The game is out of control now and it isn't fun because there is no deep strategy. Its just bronze burst fests.
> [{quoted}](name=Shobek,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=miVEbXi2,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-08-20T17:53:40.926+0000) > > Someone that reads the flow of the seasons. GOSU > > While i don't like this one shot with no items meta; I do agree that Keystones is when most of the problems started. Giving every champion hybrid damage. > > Removing runes ( old runes ) was the last nail in the coffin. The game is out of control now and it isn't fun because there is no deep strategy. Its just bronze burst fests. It does seem indeed that removal of old runes was the last nail in the coffin. Every balance seemed to go out of way out of whack all the way from season 6.
: Riot, next season has to be better
Everyone says this has been the worst season. I disagree, season 6 is still at the top with Dyanmic Que. It was also the first season to open the flood gates of balance issues. Keystone Masteries began the whole huge balance issues we have today. Role selection caused a ton of issues because no one wanted to play support, and those who qued full or support secondary were always support, burning out support players and caused more grief. Took a while for people to eat the necessary auto-fill. That or they just left. However that season didn't have any bad horrible meta thankfully. In terms of Meta I'll take this burst 1 shot Meta over that damnable cursed Season 7 Argent Cancer Meta any time and day. Want to ruin 8 peoples' game over 2 people? Want to feel useless unless you are bot lane ADC? Want to be forcefully support in any lane, the role everyone despises? Then Argent Cancer Meta is for you. Having said that this season has been bad with bad metas. Wouldn't call it the worst but definately bad. The biggest issue of this season is the fact that it followed 2 other horrible seasons. Take Blizzard as an example and that they did something right and good. Riot ironically mirrors Blizzard in a lot of ways with World of Warcraft, added irony that both companies had Ghostcrawler. World of Warcraft had two pretty bad expansions, at least $ and number wise, Mists of Pandaria, and most of all Warlords of Draenor. However Blizzard got their shit together and created Legion which not only let them jumped the shark, but bounced them right back to a great spot. Riot right now needs to do the same thing Blizzard did, Season 9 needs to not only make them jump the shark, but bounce right back. Especially with Overwatch, Heroes of the Storm, Fortnite, and PubG running around. Most of them may not be MOBAs but they can take in customers from other games.
koshkyra (NA)
: Tell me an unpopular League opinion that will trigger everyone.
Dynamic Que was the best and should be the only ranked que. Edit: Okay even I have to mention this, I don't believe what I just said, it was a joke, don't bring the DQ year long haters from S6 at me.
Stacona (NA)
: I am really happy that new Nunu + Willump is not a dark edgelord
My main big issue with the Aatrox rework is his lore and attitude. I can forgive the horrible rely on Q kit, I actually love the accent ironically since it makes him feel different. His attitude and end goal is what killed it for me. They took him so far dark and edgy to the point he wants to commit suicide. Even playing him and listening to him moap and bitch and whine about everything, it is enough to drive me insane. I could mute him but it doesn't fully work. He went to an Inspiring War God of calm and coolness to a whiny emo bitch. The whiny emo bitch is a huge anime trend and one I loathe. A leader isn't a depressed bitch! A leader is someone you follow and are inspired regardless of their evil intentions or not. Old Aatrox had that, this new one is nothing! Fuck this whiny emo bitch that killed my most favored lore, style, and looks champion!!!
: Do you think Zoe needs a rework? As sad as that sounds.
I don't think Zoe can ever be balanced. She has RNG built into her kit, and harshly punishes you when you use your summoner spells. The RNG factor which is her core design is more than enough to flag a pure failed design. She promotes frustration and rage among players to possibly the highest degree, possibly only beaten by Yasuo another CertainlyToxic design. I personally think she needs to be removed from the game, she can not be fixed. Look at Kalista, yet again another CertainlyToxic design. She had to be nerfed to an Azir state as well. Pretty soon in pro games every champion will be CertainlyToxic only champions.
mirAcIe (EUW)
: 4 most well designed champions in League of Legends
Huh I wonder if Yasuo will, or already has for that matter, beaten Kassadin's ban rate record.
: Akali's shroud is one of the worst abilities ever designed
Add Kalista on that list with her passive which is hilariously from the same CertainlyT. I'd include Caitlyn's trap but Zoe's is worse, and her traps are not as savage anymore now that people had years to learn about them.
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Yaskamasandwich

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