Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Do you expect to win a 3v5?
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=55ZGXKEU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-21T09:10:34.771+0000) > > Do you expect to win a 3v5? They briefly disconnected and reconnected a couple seconds later. The problem isn't winning a 3v5, the problem is that I don't have the ability to acquire either EXP or gold because of these early deaths in my solo lanes.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: If that means Soraka gets ardent censer now rather than 5 minutes later that can make an enormous difference.
> [{quoted}](name=Der Lindwurm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OnLttuYV,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-20T22:00:41.175+0000) > > If that means Soraka gets ardent censer now rather than 5 minutes later that can make an enormous difference. It really doesn't when the 13-1-2 Camille is one shotting your carry.
Hi im 12 (EUNE)
: ap malph is a cheese pick that will never do anything against good players, so long story short git gud, or ban him if you don't wanna git gud
> [{quoted}](name=Hi im 12,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7kRMea5d,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-10-20T14:00:19.283+0000) > > ap malph is a cheese pick that will never do anything against good players, so long story short git gud, or ban him if you don't wanna git gud Good post, let's ignore his 55% win rate at Diamond+
Rioter Comments
: \>Plays Kennen top \>Complains about losing to a melee champion
> [{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YkIh9W7o,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-10-19T23:37:12.781+0000) > > \>Plays Kennen top > \>Complains about losing to a melee champion Except I won, the issue being that Garen as a champion is almost 100% uninteractive with no skill requirement and no room to punish bad play. Which you would realize if you were literate and read the post before making a passive aggressive comment.
: Why did you start with Doran's Shield, take defense and attack speed for your flex and offensive runes, and start with E at level 1? > [{quoted}](name=Corrector1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YkIh9W7o,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-19T22:35:26.860+0000) > > i think he means the fact klepto didnt go its 'gold lead' job. A gold lead doesn't do anything until the gold is spent.
> [{quoted}](name=Darkdemon653,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YkIh9W7o,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-19T22:43:18.499+0000) > > Why did you start with Doran's Shield, take defense and attack speed for your flex and offensive runes, and start with E at level 1? > > A gold lead doesn't do anything until the gold is spent. Shield is better than Blade on Kennen almost 100% of the time, because it offsets the damage you take from minion aggro. Starting E is also almost always better, because it lets you push level 2 faster and escape a level 2 gank. Attack speed is to use Klepto faster and helps with CSing under the turret. I know I'm not going to be able to kill or damage Garen, so offensive stats are useless.
: i think he means the fact klepto didnt go its 'gold lead' job.
> [{quoted}](name=Corrector1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YkIh9W7o,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-19T22:35:26.860+0000) > > i think he means the fact klepto didnt go its 'gold lead' job. I'm demonstrating that he's acting as a punching bag for me and not taking any lasting damage. > [{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YkIh9W7o,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-19T22:34:01.661+0000) > > You deserve every horrible thing that can possibly happen in game. > > Garen's passive requires him to not take player damage for some time. Unless he backs of far away, you can cancel it. And if he does back up, he will miss cs and lane control He clears the wave, eats my combo with Courage, and backs off to regen with his 3 rejuv beads. There is no interaction and no punishment for face tanking my combo. Contrary to popular belief, ranged champions without life steal can't just auto melee champions 24/7 without consideration for the minion wave.
Rioter Comments
GigglesO (NA)
: With all the negative talk about next season
'Tanks might actually be viable if they get good RNG and their team happens to be winning at a certain point in the game' Name shittier balancing decisions, I'll wait.
Paroe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=AlienPrimate,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sqQ5Me43,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-10-19T05:39:16.486+0000) > > I just played against him and tankiness wasn't the problem. The problem was he would press Q and run away with 1/4 hp at 700 movement speed then come back 15 seconds later with full health having not backed. Your hyperbole is unhelpful. Did you know garen is a juggernaut? Did you know slows and CC in general are still very effective against him? If you let darius or illaoi run up on you do you kick and scream about darius is OP bullshit CT garbage? No. You say "well i shouldnt have mispositioned against that juggernaut!" Garen is now - simply - up to par with other juggernauts rather than being severely behind them. A lot of this weird hatred towards him has to do with cognitive dissonance than any real balance problem; You people EXPECT him to do no damage, so when he does do damage youre incredibly shocked. Fact of the matter is garen has ALWAYS done damage, this rework shifted some tangible defense power into offense power through build variability and QoL.
> [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sqQ5Me43,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-19T06:06:10.046+0000) > > Your hyperbole is unhelpful. > > Did you know garen is a juggernaut? > Did you know slows and CC in general are still very effective against him? > If you let darius or illaoi run up on you do you kick and scream about darius is OP bullshit CT garbage? No. You say "well i shouldnt have mispositioned against that juggernaut!" > > Garen is now - simply - up to par with other juggernauts rather than being severely behind them. A lot of this weird hatred towards him has to do with cognitive dissonance than any real balance problem; You people EXPECT him to do no damage, so when he does do damage youre incredibly shocked. > Fact of the matter is garen has ALWAYS done damage, this rework shifted some tangible defense power into offense power through build variability and QoL. Yeah, no, he's not. He's far above every other juggernaut. Darius and Illaoi don't have on-demand movement speed or a slow cleanse built into their kits, or a 60% tenacity active. They're actually vulnerable to CC and being kited. Garen is not. With standard build, he has 85% reduced CC duration with Courage up. If he makes it to Deadman's Plate, you need 3 champions with CC just to kite him effectively, and you still likely won't kill him before he can disengage, thanks to how much damage reduction and survivability he has.
Velasan (NA)
: And you think they ever plan to "fix" auto fill why? As someone who played before role select was even an option this concept of the game quality being destroyed just because you didn't get your role says more about the community and flaws in the concept of being able to select your role every game. Could always go back to whoever is in first pick gets to select their role first and go down the row in order. That's how it used to work, except this time just implement it client side so that one person gets to select at a time. Otherwise auto fill will always be a thing, because players were never supposed to only play one role or one trick one champion to play the game. The fact that it has become so common is actually one of the reasons the game quality is falling apart. Used to be that teammates had some idea of how other lanes worked because you would have to play other lanes at least a couple times every month. So, you understood if your jungler wasn't level 6 yet because you knew the jungle path, or you would understand top lane dynamics and match ups better, or why the support does/doesn't want to go aggressive and where to ward. Being able to play every role makes for better players who have a stronger understanding of the game and what their teammates and enemies are supposed to be doing instead of putting everyone in their isolated bubble.
> [{quoted}](name=Velasan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kVefeyzU,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-19T05:43:26.326+0000) > > And you think they ever plan to "fix" auto fill why? As someone who played before role select was even an option this concept of the game quality being destroyed just because you didn't get your role says more about the community and flaws in the concept of being able to select your role every game. > > Could always go back to whoever is in first pick gets to select their role first and go down the row in order. That's how it used to work, except this time just implement it client side so that one person gets to select at a time. > > Otherwise auto fill will always be a thing, because players were never supposed to only play one role or one trick one champion to play the game. The fact that it has become so common is actually one of the reasons the game quality is falling apart. Used to be that teammates had some idea of how other lanes worked because you would have to play other lanes at least a couple times every month. So, you understood if your jungler wasn't level 6 yet because you knew the jungle path, or you would understand top lane dynamics and match ups better, or why the support does/doesn't want to go aggressive and where to ward. Being able to play every role makes for better players who have a stronger understanding of the game and what their teammates and enemies are supposed to be doing instead of putting everyone in their isolated bubble. You can literally hover over my icon and see that I've been playing since before season 1. Why did you even post this? The problem I'm complaining about is exclusive to high elo. Go play a game against Boxbox and let me know how you fare. This is essentially what happens when someone gets auto-filled; you lose, because they feed.
: There isn't one because there never will be one unless you want hour long queues starting at low diamond.
> [{quoted}](name=AlienPrimate,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kVefeyzU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-19T05:37:56.039+0000) > > There isn't one because there never will be one unless you want hour long queues starting at low diamond. Cite your sources and provide some proof of that. My queues at Diamond 3 are usually 1-2 minutes, with an auto-fill every ~5 games, often being jungle.
Rioter Comments
: I hope in S10, they fix klepto vlad, klepto keenen, and klepto kayle
If you look at his match history and LP graph, you can see that he's queue dodging very often. Likely any time he gets a match up that Kennen doesn't win. If you go back 5 days, he should have been in his Master promos during his first loss, but you can tell that he isn't. He takes another 6 wins and 1 loss before he hits Master, meaning he didn't hit his promos until 3 wins after the first loss.
HeresyHorus (EUNE)
: Just stop playing mages already Yenn... They have no early damage, handicapped by mana & cdr, useless while thier spells are on cd, unreliable damage & cc, thier cc is easily countered by %51 tenacity from just boots + rune. Have u seen Fanatic morg+blitz bot recently? It was aweful and pretty much highlited why mages suck compared to ad champs in any lane. Game Casters took note of that too. Both morg and blitz held on thier Qs too long because they knew they will be useless if they missed thier skillshots. Often resulting in taking too much free damage from autoes and even dying many times due to it without even having the chance to use thier Qs meaningfully... Just go play tristana, vayne, Lucian, jayce, ez, xayah or quinn mid and take a free dump on any melee or mage mid including garden, irelia and renekton. The only thing some mages got going for them against noobs is the sorc+oblivion rush which is easily countered by just merc boot rush + Mr flex rune + nullifying orb rune.
> [{quoted}](name=HeresyHorus,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q5Qjkk9l,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-10-18T06:33:47.931+0000) > > Just stop playing mages already Yenn... > > They have no early damage, handicapped by mana & cdr, useless while thier spells are on cd, unreliable damage & cc, thier cc is easily countered by %51 tenacity from just boots + rune. > > Have u seen Fanatic morg+blitz bot recently? > It was aweful and pretty much highlited why mages suck compared to ad champs in any lane. Game Casters took note of that too. > > Both morg and blitz held on thier Qs too long because they knew they will be useless if they missed thier skillshots. Often resulting in taking too much free damage from autoes and even dying many times due to it without even having the chance to use thier Qs meaningfully... > > Just go play tristana, vayne, Lucian, jayce, ez, xayah or quinn mid and take a free dump on any melee or mage mid including garden, irelia and renekton. > > The only thing some mages got going for them against noobs is the sorc+oblivion rush which is easily countered by just merc boot rush + Mr flex rune + nullifying orb rune. Garen shits on everything, not just mages. Even as ADC, if I'm pretty far ahead, he can flash on me and kill me before I get out of silence with just Trinity Force. He's basically immune to CC because he has so much tenacity. There's no counterplay to this bullshit, and it's impossible for him to lose his lane, so there's no chance of stopping him before he finishes his first item. Every single Garen I've encountered today has both low games on Garen and 70-80% win rate. It's completely fucking insane that he isn't being hotfixed. https://i.imgur.com/MsfXTCh.jpg[]
: If you're talking about the top lane person in your current game that you're playing, they have a 49% win rate over roughly 30 days (83 games). I'm extremely skeptical that they could have 17 leaves and still maintain a 49% win rate. Where did you get this information while you were still playing a game with them?
> [{quoted}](name=AeroWaffle,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=sEU0NM6c,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-18T05:49:10.839+0000) > > If you're talking about the top lane person in your current game that you're playing, they have a 49% win rate over roughly 30 days (83 games). > > I'm extremely skeptical that they could have 17 leaves and still maintain a 49% win rate. Where did you get this information while you were still playing a game with them? You can literally go through their 30 day match history and count the games where they fed and left. They have significantly lower level than everyone else in the game. They maintain a 49% win rate because, surprise, they only leave when they're losing.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Except that the addition of Tower Plating (Among other things) was MEANT to increase defense of the towers in the early game. Removing that just adds more snowball to an already pretty snowbally lane (And this is coming from a dyed-in-the-wool Toplane main ever since I started playing League back in 2012). Are you timing your sieges with Cannon Minions to maximize the amount of time you have to attack the tower? Is your unnamed immobile caster equipped with any skills/abilities that help in your tower-taking? Are you focusing your attacks on the tower itself and not any minions that come during your siege?
> [{quoted}](name=EbonyBladeJ88,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R8XzA5f9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-18T02:25:52.039+0000) > > Except that the addition of Tower Plating (Among other things) was MEANT to increase defense of the towers in the early game. > > Removing that just adds more snowball to an already pretty snowbally lane (And this is coming from a dyed-in-the-wool Toplane main ever since I started playing League back in 2012). > > Are you timing your sieges with Cannon Minions to maximize the amount of time you have to attack the tower? Is your unnamed immobile caster equipped with any skills/abilities that help in your tower-taking? Are you focusing your attacks on the tower itself and not any minions that come during your siege? Plating was meant to prevent a single push from taking the entire turret early, and offer recourse to champions who can't follow a roam. We're not talking about that. We're talking about the 50% flat reduced damage mid and top turret take for the first 5 minutes of the game. Also \> asking a Diamond turret if they're attacking the turret and not minions ??? > [{quoted}](name=Tailypo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R8XzA5f9,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-18T02:36:03.207+0000) > > You're getting 160 gold and every lane minion free while your opponent loses all his cs to the turret for 2 minutes. Pretty sure opening your lane to roam is not a viable strategy, even before 5 minutes. It is if you can't win the lane early and you pick up kills with the roam.
: That's....not hotfix worthy. 53% 10% isn't so massively overbearing that it justifies a hotfix.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q5Qjkk9l,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-18T01:50:09.348+0000) > > That's....not hotfix worthy. 53% 10% isn't so massively overbearing that it justifies a hotfix. Except he's functioning as a 'no questions asked' counter to 90% of the mid lane roster with absolutely no skill component involved. Just by picking Garen, you automatically 'win' mid lane because your opponent can't interact with you. You can eat every ability thrown at you and it doesn't matter, because your passive regen will top you off between waves in the best case, and in the worst case, you can just disengage because no champion can kill you in a single rotation. That is absolutely hotfix worthy. Riot specifically did not want 100% uninteractive lanes like this to exist, starting many seasons ago.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: Problem doesn't always lie with your support, you know? > The support has no synergy with my champion Yeah, i'm not buying it. I had played as a support with most champs in the game, and with all ADCs. When you get an weird support (say, Zed, for example), you have to adapt to them, like they need to adapt to your champion. Yes, there are characters that will work great with your chosen ADC, but even without this "synergy" it's still not the end of the world if you don't have kits that compliment each other. > The support doesn't know the match up Meh, happens to all of us, you are not excluded. You can't expect everyone to know everything about all the different matchups. > The support is just not very good And so are you in some games. > The support makes a major mistake early on Well, you make those kinds of mistakes too. > Whether I win or lose this lane is completely outside of my control, Well, that's simply not true. As you said later: > [...] both players must be playing well in order to not feed. Both you and your support need to have a good cooperation if you want to do something other than feed. You know, play it like it's a team based game?
> [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2nOIJa10,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-10-16T11:15:16.138+0000) > > Problem doesn't always lie with your support, you know? > > Yeah, i'm not buying it. I had played as a support with most champs in the game, and with all ADCs. When you get an weird support (say, Zed, for example), you have to adapt to them, like they need to adapt to your champion. > > Yes, there are characters that will work great with your chosen ADC, but even without this "synergy" it's still not the end of the world if you don't have kits that compliment each other. > > Meh, happens to all of us, you are not excluded. You can't expect everyone to know everything about all the different matchups. > > And so are you in some games. > > Well, you make those kinds of mistakes too. > > Well, that's simply not true. As you said later: > > Both you and your support need to have a good cooperation if you want to do something other than feed. You know, play it like it's a team based game? Yeah, sorry, but you're completely wrong, and your opinion is irrelevant to the reality of the game at high elo. Your experience at low elo does not impart actual game knowledge, because it's based on both your team and your opponents being unskilled or uneducated. If I'm playing Jhin with a Yuumi support and the enemy picks Rakan and Ashe, the lane is over. Yuumi cannot counter or stop Rakan from hard engaging on me, into an arrow. The best she can do is intercept the arrow and die while I disengage.
Rioter Comments
: Thanks Riot for finally deciding to remove Spear of Shojin
This item shouldn't have made it into the game in the first place.
: > It would be better if kill gold, including bounty, were distributed amongst the participants We had a meta like this. Bounty was distributed, first tower gold was distributed etc. You had 0 chance of solo carrying anything, the best option after winning lanes was grouping as 5 and deathballing around the map, comebacks were much less likely and so on.
> [{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VGFtzKXY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-15T09:33:06.242+0000) > > We had a meta like this. Bounty was distributed, first tower gold was distributed etc. You had 0 chance of solo carrying anything, the best option after winning lanes was grouping as 5 and deathballing around the map, comebacks were much less likely and so on. Except I've played in every season and this was exclusively because of turret gold, not kill gold.
Yenn (NA)
: Having 67% kill participation and only 1000 more gold than the support is pretty unhealthy
https://i.imgur.com/hEJ6rXW.jpg[] Nice post, it contributes a lot to the discussion on the topic. Can mods start banning people this? Even if this game didn't exist, this is a completely useless post with no purpose other than to derail the thread.
Rioter Comments
BigFBear (EUW)
: Can you give us a source to this numbers? All I can find is 53% wr in Plat+ And 51,9% wr in Dia+ https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/diamond/plus/champion/Garen/Top/
> [{quoted}](name=BigFBear,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UEWG9lhQ,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2019-10-15T08:47:47.309+0000) > > Can you give us a source to this numbers? > All I can find is 53% wr in Plat+ > And 51,9% wr in Dia+ > > https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/diamond/plus/champion/Garen/Top/ I already addressed this. His out-dated Black Cleaver build, which is almost always the wrong thing to build, is bringing his win rate down. The Trinity Force build has 55% win rate.
: Garen has currently a 55.92 win rate mid and a 55.50% win rate top
The idea that Garen is a 'low elo pubstomper' is completely wrong. I just had a game as Jhin where a low Platinum Garen basically dumpstered my entire team of Diamond players (and a Gold Lux). He ended the game with something like 4x more damage than the rest of his team. Making the implication that we just don't know how to play the game well is absurd. Even with Leona, Lux, Elise, and I chaining our CC perfectly, it was still like fighting a raid boss, and he often still managed to either disengage before dying or connect with one or two of us, because we just couldn't outrun him. In this specific case, he had Yuumi attached to him 24/7, but a team that didn't have four forms of CC would have faired much worse. This is insane, given that this player was literally doing nothing but running in a straight line for us and eating everything we threw at him. There was absolutely no skill component involved. I could throw down traps in front of him, and he would just barrel through them without bothering to sidestep. His damage is **way** too high with the recent changes, given that he can now viably stack movement speed items and 100 to 0 any carry in 1-2 seconds if he makes contact. Which is incredibly hard to stop him from doing when he's breaking 600 movement speed and stacking so much tenacity that CC basically does nothing.
: Its harder to display a legitimate outplay these days
Basically every pog video is someone with 10+ kills 'outplaying' their opponents by blowing them up before they can react, or side stepping a skill shot and flashing on them. A lot of them have started cropping the scores, because it's not as interesting when you realize it's a 12-2-5 Aatrox killing three 0-3-0 opponents It's actually sad.
Rioter Comments
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UEWG9lhQ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-15T00:56:35.764+0000) > > He has 55% win rate at Diamond if he completes Trinity Force as his first item. His overall win rate is being brought down by the out-dated Black Cleaver build still being used often, with <50% win rate. Where are you getting this information, because the site I'm using has him listed at 52%. https://u.gg/lol/champions/garen/build?rank=diamond_plus > Normally, champions' first item win rate should match their average win rate, unless it's a scenario like this where they're being built wrong a significant portion of the time. Again, where are you getting this info from, because Ahri doesn't, nor does Kennen, what site are you using? https://u.gg/lol/champions/ahri/build?rank=diamond_plus https://u.gg/lol/champions/kennen/build?rank=diamond_plus
> [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UEWG9lhQ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-15T02:08:51.524+0000) > > Where are you getting this information, because the site I'm using has him listed at 52%. > > https://u.gg/lol/champions/garen/build?rank=diamond_plus > > Again, where are you getting this info from, because Ahri doesn't, nor does Kennen, what site are you using? > > https://u.gg/lol/champions/ahri/build?rank=diamond_plus > > https://u.gg/lol/champions/kennen/build?rank=diamond_plus https://u.gg/lol/champions/garen/items?rank=diamond_plus \> 55% win rate with first item Trinity Force
Jamaree (NA)
: Because a lot of that win rate stems from low elo where he already pubstomped so now he is even better at it, the higher you go up, the more his win rate stabilizes
> [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UEWG9lhQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-15T00:13:56.350+0000) > > Because a lot of that win rate stems from low elo where he already pubstomped so now he is even better at it, the higher you go up, the more his win rate stabilizes He has 55% win rate at Diamond if he completes Trinity Force as his first item. His overall win rate is being brought down by the out-dated Black Cleaver build still being used often, with <50% win rate. Normally, champions' first item win rate should match their average win rate, unless it's a scenario like this where they're being built wrong a significant portion of the time. Also 53% win rate and 2.5% pick rate and climbing in mid lane at Diamond+ is ridiculous, considering the champion. He has no kill potential on the majority of mid laners and he's still winning more than he loses.
NemeBro (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ahri Baka,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q5EdvGjE,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-13T23:25:53.933+0000) > > This has nothing to do with me , I'm just explaining OP's point . tell that to him not me lol If you're not mewling about a melee champion's waveclear when you can waveclear from hundreds of units away good, I'm glad to hear not every mage player is crying over it. I'm attacking the idea that someone playing a mage would bitch about Garen being able to waveclear in a losing matchup.
> [{quoted}](name=NemeBro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q5EdvGjE,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-13T23:29:12.443+0000) > > If you're not mewling about a melee champion's waveclear when you can waveclear from hundreds of units away good, I'm glad to hear not every mage player is crying over it. I'm attacking the idea that someone playing a mage would bitch about Garen being able to waveclear in a losing matchup. Sorry, I'm confused, in what way is this a 'losing match up?' Garen can't kill me, but I also quite literally do not have enough damage to kill him before he clears and retreats, and Garen is taking plates because I'm eventually going to run out of mana and have to leave lane. He comes out of lane with more gold than I do, and you can literally put a toddler in front of the keyboard and replicate this exact strategy perfectly, and it's effective against most champions. I'm stuck in a limbo where there is no way for me to do anything in lane, but I also can't roam or I lose the turret, because he clears so fast and I can't do any lasting damage to him (despite him not building as a tank). There should be a point where the skill floor is considered too low, and this is it.
: how ? cuz his E now scales with attack speed ?
> [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q5EdvGjE,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2019-10-13T22:46:31.046+0000) > > how ? > > cuz his E now scales with attack speed ? It doesn't just 'scale with attack speed,' it was buffed in multiple ways. Prior to the buff, at level 7, it hit 7 times for 26 + 39% AD, or 182 + 273% AD total. With just Stinger, it now hits 10 times for 25 damage + 38% AD, or 250 + 380% AD total. But it also does 25% bonus damage to the closest minion on each tick, making his wave clear even faster.
: ok so nothing has change? this has always been garens play style. he tries to engage , you cc him he backs off farms and heals they didnt change anything about this
> [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q5EdvGjE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-10-13T22:23:17.252+0000) > > ok so nothing has change? > > this has always been garens play style. > he tries to engage , you cc him he backs off farms and heals > > they didnt change anything about this Except his wave clear received a significant buff, so he doesn't have to remain in lane long enough to be punished.
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: ... You mean I'm the only one who builds Phoenix Udyr as a matter of course?
> [{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=foLdHjLK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-13T04:01:02.143+0000) > > ... You mean I'm the only one who builds Phoenix Udyr as a matter of course? Phoenix Udyr is terrible, but it doesn't matter at low elo. Tiger outperforms Phoenix in every single way. You lose the ability to secure kills, because you don't have the double tap mechanic on Tiger. In exchange, you get magic damage (irrelevant, by the time the enemy team has built resistances, you're already useless) and built-in wave clear (also irrelevant, Phoenix has to go tank and gets Bami wave clear regardless).
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: {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
> [{quoted}](name=MagicFlyingLlama,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KbiN3Es9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-08T05:26:52.397+0000) > > {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} Go to top lane. Ult downwards, against a wall near the river or below top side turret. Even if a champion's model is clipping the edge of the explosion, they will not get hit by it. They have to be somewhat far inside the explosion in order to get it. Go to bottom side jungle, by the dragon pit. Ult upwards, against the dragon pit wall. This explosion will hit champions who aren't even touching the edge of the explosion. You can be about 25% of the explosion radius away from the wall and still get hit by it. In the first scenario, the explosion basically has less radius.
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Yenn

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