Rexxiee (NA)
: Wait what? Wtf Did you just say jungle is unrewarding? Half of the top 20 in challenger are fking jungle mains, the role is about as strong as it has ever been, meta junglers are literally free elo and the role is broken.
> [{quoted}](name=Rexxiee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TWasy2JM,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-10-13T15:23:56.437+0000) > > Wait what? Wtf > > Did you just say jungle is unrewarding? > > Half of the top 20 in challenger are fking jungle mains, the role is about as strong as it has ever been, meta junglers are literally free elo and the role is broken. Jungle is heavily reliant on your team mates and the match up, making it bad for solo queue when you can't rely on your entire team. All early jungle match ups are binary and have no skill component; you either win or lose a fight with the enemy jungle. If they invade you, you have to rely on your team to collapse or you fall severely behind, and you also need to rely on them to help maintain control of your jungle. Alternatively, all of your lanes are losing before you've even gotten your second buff, reducing your impact over the game to zero.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A2hMAr4s,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-10-12T19:16:19.799+0000) > > Literally any burst champion that needs to get in close range (Annie, Talon, Diana, etc.) will build them against immobile casters in Diamond, but the biggest problem is supports with hard engages building them. > > The movement speed allows you to reliably avoid 100% of skill shots until you're in range to engage. You may not experience this because you aren't playing at a high enough level for players to have better reaction times than monkeys. You know, I almost valued your input until you started putting down people because of rank. Furthermore, it's not like you, as an immobile character, can build the boots yourself to outrun and reposition so you don't get caught out. You can't sit here and complain about something if you're not taking better efforts to counter your weaknesses against it.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A2hMAr4s,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2018-10-12T19:23:30.431+0000) > > You know, I almost valued your input until you started putting down people because of rank. > > Furthermore, it's not like you, as an immobile character, can build the boots yourself to outrun and reposition so you don't get caught out. You can't sit here and complain about something if you're not taking better efforts to counter your weaknesses against it. It's not elitism, it's a statement to explain why you don't really understand the issue. Players at Bronze do not have the reaction speed or skill necessary to use the speed advantage against immobile champions; if they did, they wouldn't be Bronze. I can play against a Bronze Alistar with Boots of Mobility, and 99% of the time they will just run directly at me and eat a skill shot before they get in range to Headbutt. Now replace the Bronze Alistar with a Diamond player, and their reaction speed will be fast enough to side step anything I throw at them, no matter where I aim it, until they get in range. The faster you're moving, the larger the window for reacting to a skill shot is; with mobas, the window is so large that any decent player can consistently dodge most things.
Maevelle (NA)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Maevelle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Esl8lZZQ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-10-12T19:22:47.685+0000) > > [DELETED CONTENT REMOVED - ULANOPO] I decayed out of Diamond. MMR does not decay. I've been Diamond in every season and four times this season. https://i.imgur.com/84Ait7h.jpg \> You're not Diamond, you're 100 LP Platinum I with 53% win rate!!!!!111!1 Good post.
: You sacrifice defense or some actual utility for movement speed that does not work in combat. The boots are fair.
> [{quoted}](name=RenownedWheat42,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A2hMAr4s,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-10-12T19:11:09.247+0000) > > You sacrifice defense or some actual utility for movement speed that does not work in combat. > > The boots are fair. It would be fair if the game wasn't in a state where everyone kills each other in 2-3 seconds. The lack of movement speed in combat doesn't really matter if combat is only lasting a couple of seconds.
: The boots that give you MS while you're out of combat, and drop it the moment you're attacked or hit by an ability? Those boots? Now do explain how they're shitting on immobile champions, and then explain who takes them other than supports.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A2hMAr4s,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-12T19:09:59.058+0000) > > The boots that give you MS while you're out of combat, and drop it the moment you're attacked or hit by an ability? Those boots? Now do explain how they're shitting on immobile champions, and then explain who takes them other than supports. Literally any burst champion that needs to get in close range (Annie, Talon, Diana, etc.) will build them against immobile casters in Diamond, but the biggest problem is supports with hard engages building them. The movement speed allows you to reliably avoid 100% of skill shots until you're in range to engage. You may not experience this because you aren't playing at a high enough level for players to have better reaction times than monkeys.
Rioter Comments
: Saying that inting Sion takes 'no skill' is a bit harsh. Deciding to split push versus team fight, how to ward, sacrificing team fight potential for more appropriate items, pathing to take turrets versus turning on opponents, knowing when and where to ward... It is a first order strategy now due to how frail towers are this season to be sure, but "So sure inting Sion doesn't take skill, and is cancer," is way too harsh. As with any splitpushing comp, the main party is going 4v5. If the 5v4 party cannot waveclear a single lane and win a 5v4 teamfight to begin outpushing 1 guy, do they really deserve to win?
> [{quoted}](name=Glaricion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EQ1A78eZ,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-10-12T18:18:33.179+0000) > > Saying that inting Sion takes 'no skill' is a bit harsh. > > Deciding to split push versus team fight, how to ward, sacrificing team fight potential for more appropriate items, pathing to take turrets versus turning on opponents, knowing when and where to ward... > > It is a first order strategy now due to how frail towers are this season to be sure, but "So sure inting Sion doesn't take skill, and is cancer," is way too harsh. > > As with any splitpushing comp, the main party is going 4v5. > If the 5v4 party cannot waveclear a single lane and win a 5v4 teamfight to begin outpushing 1 guy, do they really deserve to win? Why would the 5 ever allow a team fight to happen? It's easier to disengage than it is to engage.
Yenn (NA)
: 4/5 of my games at Diamond V have someone being boosted, or someone who was boosted
I just looked through the boosted player in my last game's history, and see that it has an unusually high win rate with Pyke, but doesn't play any other supports and no longer plays Pyke. I find an old game where it played Pyke, and notice that it's always duo queued with someone. I look at that someone and notice that they've gone from Silver to Diamond and have an 82% win rate on Twitch, but don't play any other ADCs, and have sub-50% win rate with all of their other top champions, and no longer play Twitch. I go through this new person's history and find a period where it duo'd as Twitch with someone other than the original player. I check this new player, and surprise, 73% Nidalee win rate, Diamond V 0 LP, doesn't play any other jungles, sub-50% win rate with everything else, and no longer plays Nidalee. This is really sad. There's no way any effort is put into shutting these players down.
: doesn't your rank decay at that level if you stop playing ranked? so play ranked and watch your rank fall or dont play ranked and watch your rank decay still seems silly
> [{quoted}](name=CharDeeMcDenniz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=GZycA62d,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-12T09:48:25.565+0000) > > doesn't your rank decay at that level if you stop playing ranked? > > so play ranked and watch your rank fall > or dont play ranked and watch your rank decay > > still seems silly You need to play one ranked game every month to stop decay. You don't understand how hard it is to drop out of Diamond by losing games. It's not like you lose 10 games in a row and get dropped, you need to lose **a lot** of games.
: I'll never understand the purpose of boosting player is hardstuck silver player pays for a boost player gets boosted to Diamond player proceeds to get shitstomped in Diamond after boost is done bc he's not that good player falls back to silver whats the point?
> [{quoted}](name=CharDeeMcDenniz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=GZycA62d,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-12T09:44:30.203+0000) > > I'll never understand the purpose of boosting > > player is hardstuck silver > player pays for a boost > player gets boosted to Diamond > player proceeds to get shitstomped in Diamond after boost is done bc he's not that good > player falls back to silver > > whats the point? They don't fall out of Diamond. Their MMR is high because of the boost, they need dozens of losses to drop out, and most of them realize they're going to drop and stop playing before that. Actually falling back to Silver would likely take 100+ losses, and they're still going to be carried in a significant portion of their games. The problem is that there's such a high volume of boosted players that even if they only play maybe 10-20 games before stopping ranked to keep Diamond, you end up with one of them in most games. It's not just a couple boosted players spamming games, it's a lot of boosted players playing a couple of games a week.
Rioter Comments
: what if they dont know that they are playing with a booster?
> [{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=8xKEVzEJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-12T07:08:29.792+0000) > > what if they dont know that the person is boosted? I'm not saying that people duo queuing with a boosted player should be banned. I'm saying the person involved in doing the boost should be banned. 9/10 boosts to Diamond involve the account being boosted duo queuing with multiple accounts that are at mid Diamond. They rotate accounts so it doesn't look suspicious. Alternatively, fresh accounts duo queue with the Diamond player and get placed into high Platinum (which normally wouldn't be possible for a new account), making the boost significantly faster.
Rioter Comments
: Autofill has more reason to be in diamond than in silver. Fewer players overall means fewer people playing the less desirable roles.
> [{quoted}](name=AlienPrimate,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Esl8lZZQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-12T05:56:11.771+0000) > > Autofill has more reason to be in diamond than in silver. Fewer players overall means fewer people playing the less desirable roles. Except auto fill at Diamond is almost a guaranteed loss for the team with the auto fill. Nobody wants to be in these games. You can't justify throwing someone who plays mid lane at a Silver level into game against a Diamond+ mid main, in order to make sure nobody has to wait more than 2 minutes in queue; it just wastes everyone's time. If we're waiting 15 minutes to get into a match, sure, auto-fill away. But that's not how it works. It starts auto-filling around 1-2 minutes. Also, the auto-filled roles are almost exclusively top and jungle. If these roles are undesirable, Riot needs to fix them.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Kennen
The posts in this thread show poor understanding of the game and especially the meta. Yes, Kennen's damage is atrociously low. He has high scalings, which is not the same as high damage. He needs to sacrifice AP for tank stats, due to his reliance on getting in close and having to survive for a long time to output damage. Games do not last long enough for his high AP scalings to come into effect, and he's further crippled by lack of wave clear while sieging or defending. You need to run into the enemy team in order to clear waves, and the ADC will generally last hit over your shurikens. His entire kit is avoidable and often relies on a misplay by the enemy to pull off. There's too much mobility, CC, and disengage in the game, making it easy for anyone paying attention to stop him before he can get close, and team fights are over too fast, making it hard to wait for the enemy team to use everything; by that time, the fight is often over.. The current state of the game is also heavily focused on burst damage. Kennen has sustained damage, which is not viable. You can 100 to 20 three people in 5 seconds, but most other champions can 100 to 0 you in 2 seconds. You don't have enough time to put out your damage; someone will kill you first, or force you to Zhonya and mobility or step out of your ult, or CC and kill you before you even get in range to ult. He's not worth playing until the pacing of the game slows down.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Why does that matter? Wait,why are we even comparing their abilities?my point in my first comment is that their both skill shots.you didn't dodge fizz's so you die,which is the same thing Zoe does,you don't dodge her E you die.I'm not talking about what their abilities do...
> [{quoted}](name=TheKingOfBiches,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ycZI6uHv,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-28T04:54:05.876+0000) > > Why does that matter? > > Wait,why are we even comparing their abilities?my point in my first comment is that their both skill shots.you didn't dodge fizz's so you die,which is the same thing Zoe does,you don't dodge her E you die.I'm not talking about what their abilities do... You can't dodge Fizz's shark, he has to miss it. It's mathematically impossible to dodge without mobility, when it's aimed directly at you; there is literally no direction you can run in, even if you react instantly, and not get hit. If you ever sidestep a Fizz ult, it's because the Fizz aimed poorly. She could have flashed to the side, but implying that you deserve to die for being hit by a skill shot that is unavoidable without Flash also shows a problem.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: those are actually good rules, waiting to see how they're applied now >Posts must provide a thoughtful analysis this is incredibly shallow how do you decide if an analysis is throughtful or not?
How do you intend to facilitate good discussion on gameplay topics that are very specific to either high or low skill levels? Imo this is one of the biggest problems with the Gameplay boards; we can try to have a discussion about some mechanic or champion that is overbearing, but only at a high skill level, and the thread will be flooded with players who aren't at a sufficient level to have experienced the problem being discussed, still trying to give input based on their experience at a low skill level. EDIT: Wrong quote
: Why no one bans Jhin?
Jhin is pretty fine, he's just annoying for melee to stick to. He loses to almost every other ADC unless he's ahead, and he has no defense against assassination. You can play something like Tristana and literally just jump on him and kill him after he uses one or two shots.
: do you people not get how impossible it would be to have tons of S tier champs? something will ALWAYS be slightly better but you can get challenger with B and A tier champs. people have done it forever just get better
> [{quoted}](name=UR DunningKruger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GX9QEfKr,comment-id=0023,timestamp=2018-08-11T06:05:58.062+0000) > > do you people not get how impossible it would be to have tons of S tier champs? something will ALWAYS be slightly better but you can get challenger with B and A tier champs. people have done it forever just get better You're missing the point. The top champions aren't **slightly** better, they completely shit on the lower tier champions. You're basically putting your team at a notable disadvantage by not playing top champions, with the game in it's current state.
: It's not about viability, it's about the fact that non meta champs require 10 times the skill to achieve the same thing. You can play velkoz mid to diamond. You just need to be 10 times better than the fizz or leblanc or zed or whatever.
> [{quoted}](name=Giga Baboon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GX9QEfKr,comment-id=0020,timestamp=2018-08-10T23:49:55.948+0000) > > It's not about viability, it's about the fact that non meta champs require 10 times the skill to achieve the same thing. You can play velkoz mid to diamond. You just need to be 10 times better than the fizz or leblanc or zed or whatever. This is entirely incorrect, league is not a physical sport. Skill is largely irrelevant after a certain point and has an upper limit on effectiveness. You will **never** beat even a mediocre Fizz, LeBlanc, or Zed as Vel'koz, no matter your skill level. Their kits don't allow for any counter play from Vel'koz when used correctly. Skill doesn't change that.
Epheremy (EUW)
: I got to Diamond IV by playing my main {{champion:134}} while she was considered shit tier. I think it depends more on the roles and the impact you provide in a game rather than the champion itself.
> [{quoted}](name=Epheremy,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GX9QEfKr,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2018-08-10T15:57:00.480+0000) > > I got to Diamond IV by playing my main {{champion:134}} while she was considered shit tier. I think it depends more on the roles and the impact you provide in a game rather than the champion itself. Your history is full of duo queued ranked games. That's not a good example.
: Stop saying zed has no counterplay
> [{quoted}](name=FeistyPoptart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=myuWckgY,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-10T04:11:09.249+0000) > > Though it might seem shitty all you really have to do is just give up almost all of your lane dominance. Once he hits 6 you sit back and farm with abilities or wait for the wave to get to your tower. Okay, so you sit back and farm under your turret. Let's assume it's a shitty Zed who can't kill you under your turret (spoiler: there are many immobile casters who can be safely dived 1v1 by a skilled Zed with no possible counter play, and even more who become diveable if he ever lands a double Q). > [{quoted}](name=FeistyPoptart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=myuWckgY,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-10T04:11:09.249+0000) > > Deny his ability to make good roams by making sure to prioritize vision, ping whenever he goes missing even if you aren't sure he actually left, and hard push the wave every time he leaves. Every time you go to ward, you're potentially walking into Zed. You can spend all of your gold on pinks, but you can't defend them, making it impossible to maintain vision. You can't push the wave unless you **know** he's gone; if he's not gone, he'll pop Ghostblade and kill you for leaving your turret. If he is roaming, you don't know until it's too late. If you ping on every wave, your team becomes desensitized to it and stops caring. > [{quoted}](name=FeistyPoptart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=myuWckgY,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-10T04:11:09.249+0000) > > Do this until you have enough for a zhonyas then try to roam and use your utility as a mage to peel for allies and get picks. If you rush Zhonya, you can't wave clear. You'll have to recall for mana often, and he'll just take your turret and/or roam while you're gone. Virtually no mage can fight Zed 1v1 even with Zhonya, so every time you roam, you're praying that he doesn't catch you in the river. The rest of your post is irrelevant because the initial premise that you can maintain vision control and farm safely as long as you don't leave your turret are both completely wrong, and only apply to unskilled players.
Rioter Comments
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=magewick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EsZEV9E6,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-08-10T01:11:50.656+0000) > > How do you propose to fix these issues? Lets say you have 4 diamond 5 accounts: > > 1) A boosted account with 80% winrate (player paid for boost and than didn't play much) > 2) A boosted account with 50% winrate (player paid for boost and then tanked winrate down to 50) > 3) An unboosted account with 80% winrate (smurf) > 4) An unboosted account with 50% winrate (regular account) > > What mathematical formula would you use which would apply to all 4 accounts would sort them into the correct bracket? As far as I am aware, there aren't any matchmaking formulas that do a good job of accounting for both the general public and boosters at the same time. Boosters need to be taken care of by ban waves. The main problem is duo'ing through placements. The goal is only to make it take longer than a couple of days to boost a fresh 30 account to Diamond, leaving more time for them to be detected and limiting the impact on low Diamond. An easy solution is to just not allow duo queue in placements; that way, the boosted account places into maybe Gold if it goes 10-0, and then still has to play a couple hundred games to get to Diamond. Right now, they place into mid Platinum and only need maybe a week worth of games at slightly above 50% win rate to hit Diamond. The other issues can be solved by factoring MMR into placements/decaying placements as the season progresses. Someone who is inactive for 10 months before doing placements should be treated the same as someone who did placements and then became inactive. A boosted player with 80% win rate who isn't active and a boosted player with 50% win rate should be around the same; the inactive player doesn't keep up with MMR inflation and the other has tanked their MMR. This will help get the boosted players out of Diamond and improve game quality; I think a large part of the problem right now is that Diamond V is full of unskilled players who can't drop out of it and only play enough games to prevent decay, then the next season rolls over, and these players are all thrown into the pool with actual Diamond players. It makes the game more of a coin flip and climbing becomes a clusterfuck, because there are often boosted players on each team cancelling each other out.
Yenn (NA)
: Are placement matches going to be changed/reworked to be less easily abused?
My first ranked game in two weeks has three Chinese boosters abusing this. This is really insane.
Kelg (NA)
: Mordekaiser has fallen from OP.gg due to lack of play. Can Mordekaiser get some QoL power shifts?
Morde can't be buffed in his current state, he would need a power shift. He's the #3 highest win rate bottom lane in the game at 55%. With a support like Leona, you need to very specifically counter pick, or the majority of bottom lanes just get shit on with little to no counter play.
: No you didn't but lies aside they discussed potentially doing it but his winrate dropped and well they didn't.
> [{quoted}](name=GladiatorOrphans,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OmKtR4hU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-07T07:52:50.746+0000) > > No you didn't but lies aside they discussed potentially doing it but his winrate dropped and well they didn't. No, it didn't? He's still sitting around 57% at Diamond
: It's a relatively slow moving straight skillshot with the hitbox of a caitlyn q (after its hit minions). I am an avid fizz player and have several players in plat-diamond elo sidestep my ult, and i've done the same playing against fizz.
> [{quoted}](name=SpongebobIsLife,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlyqOZog,comment-id=001100000000,timestamp=2018-08-07T02:58:58.334+0000) > > It's a relatively slow moving straight skillshot with the hitbox of a caitlyn q (after its hit minions). I am an avid fizz player and have several players in plat-diamond elo sidestep my ult, and i've done the same playing against fizz. This is entirely wrong and you could verify how entirely wrong you are if you actually took the time to look up the numbers. I've already shown you math **that proves it cannot be side stepped if aimed directly at you.** Also, I'm not sure how ignorant of the game you have to be to compare Caitlyn's Q hit box to a long range Fizz ult. If you disagree, show your work, otherwise stop posting misinformation. > [{quoted}](name=SuperCommander,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlyqOZog,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2018-08-07T00:40:27.779+0000) > > What I am finding curious is that the hitbox would be 450 at max range. I don't think the hitbox of the small fish grows to that size, or does it? Re-read my post, I showed you an example of Fizz throwing his shark from close range, with the hit box being 200 radius (the minimum). It's harder to dodge at close range. I'm not sure what you're even trying to say, the small fish grows to something like 300? at 500 range.
: it's actually not that hard of a skillshot to dodge,provided it's not a point blank ult. This is one of the few situations where i'll say play better.
> [{quoted}](name=SpongebobIsLife,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlyqOZog,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2018-08-06T16:47:41.062+0000) > > it's actually not that hard of a skillshot to dodge,provided it's not a point blank ult. This is one of the few situations where i'll say play better. Show me that math that proves it's possible to dodge it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlyqOZog,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-06T01:26:00.441+0000) > > It's actually not possible to dodge it without mobility in your kit if he throws it directly at you, and I mean this literally, not figuratively. > > You need something like** 450 movement speed** to be able to get out of it's way before it attaches, unless you're beyond 1300 range (which is only really possible for Xerath and Ziggs, and it's still guaranteed to land if he Q's through a minion to get close). Where does these numbers come from? For this to be true the hitbox of the **small fish (lure)** would have to be 450 (that's as big as the **gigalodon** hitbox. I don't think that is the case.
> [{quoted}](name=SuperCommander,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlyqOZog,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-08-06T10:49:20.112+0000) > > Where does these numbers come from? For this to be true the hitbox of the **small fish (lure)** would have to be 450 (that's as big as the **gigalodon** hitbox. I don't think that is the case. I'm saying that if you're at 1300 (max range) from Fizz, you need 450 movement speed to sidestep the fish (in any direction). If you're closer than 1300 range (i.e. even if it's the smallest), you still can't side step it, because it moves too fast. I used max range because it gives the most time and requires the least movement speed to dodge (if it were dodgeable). i.e. if you're at 400 range, the fish reaches your initial position in ~0.3 seconds. You need to move more than it's base radius of 200 in 0.3 seconds; you need over 600 movement speed to sidestep it, and that's not including how much it's grown by in that time.
: You can flash through it, toward Fizz and kill him. The radius is skinner and the latch mechanic doesn't trigger unless you it it full to the face. You can dodge to the sides of it as well. I'm not sure that's the issue here.
> [{quoted}](name=Wayward Fish,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlyqOZog,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-08-06T05:22:51.034+0000) > > You can flash through it, toward Fizz and kill him. The radius is skinner and the latch mechanic doesn't trigger unless you it it full to the face. You can dodge to the sides of it as well. I'm not sure that's the issue here. You literally cannot dodge to the side. It's mathematically not possible to move out of it's way before it latches when it's aimed directly at you, unless you're over 450 movement speed.
Fízz v2 (EUW)
: so fizz ult is hard to dodge without mobility... like almost all skillshots in the game lul
> [{quoted}](name=Fízz v2,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlyqOZog,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-06T01:41:59.618+0000) > > so fizz ult is hard to dodge without mobility... like almost all skillshots in the game lul It's not hard to dodge, it's impossible to dodge. Even if you react instantly when he throws it, there is no direction you can move in that will prevent you from getting hit. If you're missing your ults on immobile champions and think it's just 'hard' to dodge, it's because you're bad; there is nothing the target can do to get out of it's way in time, unless they have high mobility. The majority of times a Fizz ult doesn't land, it's because Fizz missed and not because the opponent dodged it. Most other skill shots in the game can easily be side stepped at max range. Fizz's ult cannot; you can't even run backwards from it if you're within 1300 range of him.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Yenn (NA)
: Normal matchmaking is almost certainly broken, can this be looked into?
I'd rather not play the game at all, than play this garbage. This seriously needs to be fixed.
Rioter Comments
: Autofill Starter pack
Auto-fill at Diamond is virtually always top or jungle. I'd much rather take an auto-filled support with poor vision control over a 0-10-0 first time Garen or Kha'zix.
: Recent Fizz Buffs from the POV of a Fizz Main
Can you define 'evening out?' His win rate so far today has actually increased from 56% to 58% at Diamond. Also reminder that balancing the game is actually someone's job, we shouldn't have to deal with their fuck ups for weeks before they get *maybe* fixed.
Fízz v2 (EUW)
: But Fizz has a skillshot ult that is a big part of his damage, a dodgable E and Q, and many delays in his kit. Id argue he is one of the highest, if not the highest counterplay assassin. Especially since all other assassins can farm and poke from range. You know... as much "counterplay" as is possible in a game where ignite and electrocute removes almost half of ur hp xd.
> [{quoted}](name=Fízz v2,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OHqR7dTn,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-30T16:36:43.165+0000) > > But Fizz has a skillshot ult that is a big part of his damage, a dodgable E and Q, and many delays in his kit. Id argue he is one of the highest, if not the highest counterplay assassin. Especially since all other assassins can farm and poke from range. > > > You know... as much "counterplay" as is possible in a game where ignite and electrocute removes almost half of ur hp xd. This is incredibly ignorant. **Fizz's ult is actually not avoidable** without some form of mobility in your kit. This isn't hyperbole; if he throws it straight at you, you literally do not have enough time to get out of it's way before it attaches, no matter which direction you run in. You might be able to just barely get away with upgraded boots, Luden's, and Celerity, but it's a big maybe that heavily depends on your champion's size. Pretend you're Vel'koz wave clearing with double tapped W (1050 range). Fizz throws his shark straight at you, and you start running away immediately. It travels at 1300 speed, so after 0.8 seconds, it's traveled 1050 units and is exactly where you were when Fizz threw it. With 403 movement speed, you move 322 units in this time, **but the shark's radius is 450**; you got hit. This is a perfect scenario with instantaneous reaction and no latency, and Fizz being at max range of your wave clear. It's much worse when you factor in latency and reaction time to Fizz throwing the shark, and in reality, he's going to be closer than 1050 units from you. Whether Fizz's ult lands is completely on the Fizz player. If you miss, it's because you're bad, not because your opponent was good and dodged it. Hoping your opponent is a bad player does not qualify as counterplay. And given that his ult is not avoidable, your entire argument is invalid. You cannot dodge his E while his shark is slowing you by 80%, and his Q is a targeted ability, so I'm not sure why you even implied it's dodgable (???) And this is why Fizz is sitting at 57% win rate at Diamond right now.
YuGiHo (NA)
: So how would u change him to improve his winrate mid without just increasing his numbers or making him a much better support? I know its not OP's job to make balance changes im just curious if anyone has any ideas the would like to share.
> [{quoted}](name=YuGiHo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Jojr0zN,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2018-08-02T22:12:24.258+0000) > > So how would u change him to improve his winrate mid without just increasing his numbers or making him a much better support? I know its not OP's job to make balance changes im just curious if anyone has any ideas the would like to share. He really only needs more reliability in his kit (i.e. making E land faster when used at close range would be really nice). Speeding up W or Q is also possible, but would be overbearing at low levels of play. Maybe if his E was changed to land faster at close range, it could instantly proc the second part of W when they overlap.
: Fizz is at 56% WR, 10% Play Rate, 32% Ban rate on Diamond+
Haha oh boy I just saw the numbers on the Fizz buffs, what the fuck. These are very obviously too high. Like not even a 'maybe this is okay, let's see how it plays out.' Name another job that lets you get away with being this grossly incompetent. I'll wait.
mack9112 (NA)
: Velkoz is absolutely fine
> [{quoted}](name=mack9112,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Jojr0zN,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2018-08-02T14:48:14.536+0000) > > Velkoz is absolutely fine That stops being true once you get to Diamond, where most players can dodge your skill shots. He is fine in lower tiers of play, and already had fairly high win rate; which makes the damage buff even more questionable, because it's only going to impact him in said levels of play, where players don't have the reaction speed necessary to avoid things.
Rioter Comments
: This WAS an outplay. Don't be fooled.
> [{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uNdE3pLP,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-02T01:45:44.017+0000) > > Failed to notice the ignite on the ground. Right, if Zoe **ever** picks up an Ignite, you just have to leave the lane because you're automatically OuTpLaYeD!!!!11!1 xD if you stay > [{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uNdE3pLP,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-02T01:45:44.017+0000) > > Didn't use his E at all during the fight. His E would have done absolutely nothing. There's no reason to use it, and the animation for throwing it will clip into his autos, making it detrimental at worst. > [{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uNdE3pLP,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-02T01:45:44.017+0000) > > Opted to stay and fight with the minions already cleared, despite both of them having only one full item (which with the ADC item changes puts him at a distinct disadvantage) and her being a level up. He not only had time to just _walk_ away, but also had his flash and another charge of his E even if he had used it before. 'Hurr durr his fault for thinking he could 1v1 a champion with roughly equal gold **after they missed all of their skill shots**.' See 1. > [{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uNdE3pLP,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-02T01:45:44.017+0000) > > At 6 seconds he misclicks, throwing his bouncing grenade at a minion. And since Zoe was mid-cast of her R, she was actually not in range for the grenade to bounce to her. Zoe wasn't mid-cast, she hit R after he had started throwing the grenade. It's not instant. > [{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uNdE3pLP,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-02T01:45:44.017+0000) > > 8 seconds in he misses his W, losing both the damage and his chance to escape. Zoe dodged it. You can't hit W on Zoe here unless she's handicapped, she has at least 30% increased movement speed. There's a distinct difference between missing and being dodged. > [{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uNdE3pLP,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-02T01:45:44.017+0000) > > Held his fourth auto and issued non-attack movement commands instead of attempting to fire the fourth shot which might have killed her. Completely false, he **did not** hold his fourth auto, his AA timer was up as he died. Jhin should have won this, mage are normally supposed to have a window of vulnerability after they whiff their skill shots. I'm not sure why this is being upvoted, this is a terrible analysis by someone who doesn't understand Jhin and is primarily based on 'lmao you got outplayed for being anywhere around Zoe and it's totally fine that she can kill you without landing any skill shots.' I lost brain cells.
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Yenn

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