Acanthus (NA)
: I'll just drop this here. > Just so you know, mathematically, the hp per level is superior by far to the other choices in that slot. I was talking about this in another thread I started before, but no one cared. > > To those that don't know, armor and mr essentially increase your effective health by 1% per 1 point. Since I'm thinking about this primarily from a solo tank/bruiser perspective. If I'm Naut, who starts with 576 hp and 35 armor, my effective hp against physical damage is about 778. If I was to add 5 armor to that, it would be an effective hp of about 806, which is a 28 hp difference. And Naut has a decently sized hp pool. > > For the third row, I also have a serious problem with the hp choice vs armor or mr. For starters, the hp choice works against everything. It also increases the usefulness of your starting armor and mr. In the Naut example, it would add 20 effective hp against physical damage at level 1 with his starting armor, and it scales up. There is literally no reason to ever pick the 5 armor or 6 magic resist because you gain another 88 effective hp throughout the game against physical damage from just that before even considering level up armor or bought items. With his max level up armor the scaling hp shard actually gives him 179 effective hp against physical damage. The direct comparison would be 5 armor increasing his level 18 effective base hp by 101. While you can get more out of the stat if you're buying large pools of hp, you're obviously going to more easily get more out of the other stats unless you have a special scaling like Rammus/Malphite or if you're Cho/Sion, who can infinitely stack hp.
> [{quoted}](name=Acanthus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K8jJGxH9,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-11-20T19:45:45.131+0000) > > I'll just drop this here. ... What? You have that completely wrong, HP / level is inferior in terms of effective HP, aside from increasing effective HP against all types of damage (which you can't put a value on). However, these runes are only intended to help you in the early game and have virtually no impact late game. Which makes the scaling HP one even more questionable.
: Anyone Else Find Neeko's Passive Useless?
It's largely useless at high elo; it's completely obvious which champion is Neeko, unless you're both trying to run away and enter the enemy vision at the same time. Even then, movement speed still usually makes it easy to tell which is Neeko. All of the supposed usages in this thread are theorycrafted and won't work in practice unless you're playing against handicapped monkeys.
: Autofill? More Like Auto Fail
This has been happening since the system was created. Riot hasn't made any attempt to improve it since then. Because clearly everything else is more important than creating evenly matched ranked games.
: this is kind of taken out of context. the match in question, from the lucians op.gg: http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=selfish+adelaide (the 20/7/10 one) heres what happened, but from NEEKOS point of view, with items showing. i would like to highlight the items part. https://gfycat.com/DearReflectingBobolink notice how not a single person there has ANY MR whatsoever, other then irelias merc treads (notice how she was the last one alive too) and taric's locket, which was on cooldown during the fight. baron naturally lowers resistances they didnt have too, so neeko was practically spoon fed this tbh, especially because she built full AP with mpen boots and 4 stacks on {{item:1082}}
> [{quoted}](name=Snapp2Kill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mKH8nzEP,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-12-09T23:56:27.865+0000) > > this is kind of taken out of context. > > the match in question, from the lucians op.gg: > http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=selfish+adelaide (the 20/7/10 one) > > > heres what happened, but from NEEKOS point of view, with items showing. i would like to highlight the items part. > > https://gfycat.com/DearReflectingBobolink > > notice how not a single person there has ANY MR whatsoever, other then irelias merc treads (notice how she was the last one alive too) and taric's locket, which was on cooldown during the fight. baron naturally lowers resistances they didnt have too, so neeko was practically spoon fed this tbh, especially because she built full AP with mpen boots and 4 stacks on {{item:1082}} \> YoU jUsT hAvE tO bUiLd Mr!!!1! It's almost 2019, stop posting this shit. Unless you're a bruiser, offensive itemization vastly overpowers defensive itemization and isn't a viable choice until your 4th or 5th item on the majority of champions, outside of top laners. MR is especially inaccessible to non-tanks. Things have been like this for multiple seasons now, catch up.
Anìmê (NA)
: > Her E is literally unavoidable if she aims it directly at you through minions. Ok so you also have to be standing behind the minions which you know she is going to look for that so position differently. It is not hard to play around her E. She has a weak early game and is super vulnerable when pushed. She has pretty poor clear early as well. Learn to play and also let her be out for a month before jumping to conclusions.
> [{quoted}](name=Anìmê,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bGEE9rlX,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2018-12-09T03:28:27.715+0000) > > Ok so you also have to be standing behind the minions which you know she is going to look for that so position differently. It is not hard to play around her E. She has a weak early game and is super vulnerable when pushed. She has pretty poor clear early as well. Learn to play and also let her be out for a month before jumping to conclusions. It's almost like she doesn't have a speed boost on every third auto to let her quickly re-position for her E.
: > [{quoted}](name=BigBrainSuppMain,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bGEE9rlX,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-09T02:32:49.718+0000) > > Idk why this has downvotes, she's totally stupid. Because its not a kit issue with her, its mostly numbers are tuned a bit too high on her. Other then that her kit feels completely fine but more importantly, she is fun to lane against.
> [{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bGEE9rlX,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-12-09T02:35:01.425+0000) > > Because its not a kit issue with her, its mostly numbers are tuned a bit too high on her. Other then that her kit feels completely fine but more importantly, she is fun to lane against. I can see her being okay in the hands of an unskilled/slower player, but she is insanely hard to lane against when played by a skilled Diamond+ player. Her E is **literally** unavoidable if she aims it directly at you through minions. The speed and size are such that unless you're playing Xerath or Lux, it's guaranteed to land on you at wave clear range. You cannot sidestep it unless her aim is off. You can try to play 'ring around the rosie' with her so she can't hit two minions, but once she gets the movement speed bonus from her third auto, you're done. It's similar to abilities like Zoe's E and Fizz's R, but both of these abilities have a wind up time before the projectile starts to give you additional time to start moving, which compensates for for their speed and size. Hers has no wind up, and is more like a faster Lux Q that ignores collision. Once she hits her unavoidable E, you can't avoid the rest of her damage, and you often can't retaliate against her because your kit is either lower range or contains a crucial skill shot that is blocked by minions. If she can't straight up kill you, her Q does a ton of damage. If you try to retaliate, her W has something to stop almost every form of retaliation. The clone can body block a skill shot, she gets a large speed boost to facilitate sidestepping any non-blockable skill shots, and she stealths, which interrupts and prevents targeted point-and-click abilities. It's entirely a kit issue; it has extremely limited counterplay when used correctly, and it also contains tools that help her counter most match ups.
Rioter Comments
: Shyvana has AD scaling magic damage; can Udyr have, too?
> [{quoted}](name=Frontline Fury,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I5yEUdtY,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-08T04:22:46.672+0000) > > Shyvana is currently entering the meta because of her extreme synergy with hybrid ad/hp items, her passive that gives armor/magic resist (which udyr's turtle stance ought to, too) and her AD scaling magic damage (resulting in her easily dealing 60% physical 40% magic damage when building pure AD/HP items). > > Can Udyr's phoenix stance have AD scaling as well? This wouldn't do anything to help Udyr, and it doesn't really do anything to make Shyvana 'meta' or a good pick in the current state of the game. You need to be able to quickly 100 to 0 your target in the early game to be viable in the jungle, so Tiger would still be superior even if Phoenix had AD scaling. Udyr's current problem is that he's hard countered by half the roster and has absolutely no late game beyond AFK split pushing, it's not really a damage issue.
: "Gold Funneling"
This isn't even comparable to double mid funneling. Also, Trick's win rate is actually atrocious. He's consistently been below 50% win rate on all of his accounts this season, because he plays like this. Actual gold funneling has a very high win rate and needs to be countered with picks, but you often don't know it's happening until it's too late. This is the history of a Chinese booster who does the gold funneling strategy with Taric + Yi, who currently has 84% win rate at Diamond III. https://imgur.com/ZSiqokV
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6JtB7s8Q,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-07T08:17:47.886+0000) > > I'd rather have the usual chances than a significantly increased chance of the Irelia feeding, because it both doesn't play Irelia and doesn't play bottom lane. > > If the system can't make a good ranked match, it shouldn't start a game at all. But more waiting...wouldn't affect either of those things and you are just as likely to get the feeding Irelia with or without the wait?
> [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6JtB7s8Q,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-07T08:27:09.387+0000) > > But more waiting...wouldn't affect either of those things and you are just as likely to get the feeding Irelia with or without the wait? If it wasn't obvious, the Irelia is auto-filled. I'd rather wait longer and have that same player in a role that they know how to play.
Jamaree (NA)
: You know, even with extra wait time, you still run the risk of getting a 0/8 Irelia right?
> [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6JtB7s8Q,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-07T08:16:54.381+0000) > > You know, even with extra wait time, you still run the risk of getting a 0/8 Irelia right? I'd rather have the usual chances than a significantly increased chance of the Irelia feeding, because it both doesn't play Irelia and doesn't play bottom lane. If the system can't make a good ranked match, it shouldn't start a game at all.
Rioter Comments
: He could have fit his 4 shots in 3 second earlier and had another up before alistar head but him for the kill. He literally only died because he didnt do damage as he was running until the end. He gets knocked up can auto after the knock up before the stun gets stunned autos once can auto 3 more times before the next time he actually does auto (and he can still kite while doing this) but he wouldnt have 3 shots then anyway. Hed have his shots again before reaching the base side gates and kill alistar before his W comes back up if he doesnt want to die in melee range then build defense . if you want to build full damage you cant also cry when you die to some one who has to get into melee range and you walk into his dash range.
> [{quoted}](name=LordGeovanni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ib6AwKla,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-07T06:50:00.472+0000) > > He could have fit his 4 shots in 3 second earlier and had another up before alistar head but him for the kill. He literally only died because he didnt do damage as he was running until the end. > He gets knocked up can auto after the knock up before the stun gets stunned autos once can auto 3 more times before the next time he actually does auto (and he can still kite while doing this) but he wouldnt have 3 shots then anyway. Hed have his shots again before reaching the base side gates and kill alistar before his W comes back up > if he doesnt want to die in melee range then build defense . if you want to build full damage you cant also cry when you die to some one who has to get into melee range and you walk into his dash range. He's running to get away from Urgot, who is chasing behind Alistar. If he had stopped to auto earlier, Urgot would have caught up to him. He wouldn't have killed Alistar in either scenario.
Rioter Comments
Lufist (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YRh2lYGA,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-12-07T00:19:10.950+0000) > > They're legitimate Chinese boosters. They did a name change on the accounts involved, you have to go digging for history prior to the name change. Either way, it was 86% when I posted this with just the games shown, if you don't go and find earlier games. They've played literally 5 games together.
> [{quoted}](name=Lufist,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YRh2lYGA,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2018-12-07T00:21:18.121+0000) > > They've played literally 5 games together. If you go back to the one before, they started playing at the same time and both have no history. Websites like op.gg don't follow name changes. They used to try, but Riot asked them to stop. It's why you see boosted 0 LP Diamond V accounts with no games played in the past 30+ days; this isn't possible, they would have decayed to Platinum. You get accounts to Diamond and do placements duo'd with new accounts (for boosting or selling). Your placement MMR is bumped up to match the MMR of the Diamond player you duo'd with. You clearly have no idea how boosting works.
Lufist (NA)
: Bro why do you lie? We can see your match history. They don't have anywhere close to a 90% win rate.
> [{quoted}](name=Lufist,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YRh2lYGA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-12-07T00:04:22.742+0000) > > Bro why do you lie? We can see your match history. They don't have anywhere close to a 90% win rate. They're legitimate Chinese boosters. They did a name change on the accounts involved, you have to go digging for history prior to the name change. Either way, it was 86% when I posted this with just the games shown, if you don't go and find earlier games.
Rioter Comments
: Like...What? Every single thing in your post is wrong. Pros arent required to fill every role. Thats why teams have dedicated spots. Also no one says you HAVE to follow the meta. Its simply the "most efficient tactic available" so why wouldnt you?
> [{quoted}](name=Jorencice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PARYEEPg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-06T20:43:26.688+0000) > > Like...What? Every single thing in your post is wrong. > > Pros arent required to fill every role. Thats why teams have dedicated spots. > > Also no one says you HAVE to follow the meta. Its simply the "most efficient tactic available" so why wouldnt you? He's referring to the champions who are most effective. At a high level, everyone's skill level is near the ceiling and it's the champion kits that decide the winner. Especially in top lane, there are many match ups that are flat out impossible to win unless one player is a monkey. League is not a sport. You can't make a champion whose kit doesn't work well with the state of the game perform as well as a champion who is made for the meta, no matter your skill level with it. You can usually tell which team is going to win based on which has more meta picks.
: Will Riot ever acknowledge the one trick issue plaguing high elo?
Tbh it's especially bad when their one trick is something that gets rewarded for mindlessly going all-in 24/7, or something like Tryndamere
Rioter Comments
Yenn (NA)
: Yi + Taric booster strategy is totally fixed guys, just ignore this 90% win rate duo at Diamond III
'You know what will stop funneling? Dumping the funnelers an extra 800 gold for diving and taking mid turret at level 6!' Riot Games, folks
: To be fair, this is literally all she does well, so I guess we can call it a counterweight.
> [{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YVO4Hcpq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-06T06:39:24.443+0000) > > To be fair, this is literally all she does well, so I guess we can call it a counterweight. Her W is also extremely good at blocking skill shots, and her overall damage is insanely high.
: Is funneling the problem or is Yi the problem?
> [{quoted}](name=Wolfalisk318,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YRh2lYGA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-06T06:42:11.643+0000) > > Is funneling the problem or is Yi the problem? It's both, but funneling is the main problem. Yi ends up a full item ahead of everyone else around 10-11 minutes.
Rioter Comments
: 10LP per game??!?!
It's because you were Silver V. Your MMR isn't acceptable for Silver IV; you should be Bronze I, but they didn't drop people in V division down when they combined it with IV. It's probably not a bug.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Yenn (NA)
: Jungling from behind is quite literally impossible. This needs to be fixed.
I just had a Master Yi counter-picked by Rengar. Rengar bought a sweeper and ran around Yi's jungle all game. As Vel'koz, I can't do much to help him. If I walk into brush he's waiting in, I'm guaranteed dead. I also also can't defend my wards, so when he sweeps them, that entire side of the jungle becomes inaccessible, leaving our Yi with no camps. There's nothing Yi himself can do to deal with Rengar running around his jungle. In the end, Rengar was 12-1 while our Yi was 1-8. This is pretty ridiculous.
: I didn’t think YOU lost LP with a leaver. I never did. Unless you mean a leaver AFTER losing the chance to remake? In which case that makes sense.
> [{quoted}](name=º ahria º,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f6YXEFmB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-04T02:38:08.236+0000) > > I didn’t think YOU lost LP with a leaver. I never did. > > Unless you mean a leaver AFTER losing the chance to remake? > In which case that makes sense. It's semi-common for players at Diamond to die once or twice early and just leave the game.
Rioter Comments
rujitra (NA)
: If you're behind, play like it. Don't play without vision. Work on picking them off. Of fucking course being drastically ahead will make it easier for Zoe to position herself. **It makes it easier for all champs to position themselves**. So don't let them get ahead.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZEJmJJJd,comment-id=0000000200010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-02T04:47:53.487+0000) > > If you're behind, play like it. Don't play without vision. Work on picking them off. > > Of fucking course being drastically ahead will make it easier for Zoe to position herself. **It makes it easier for all champs to position themselves**. > > So don't let them get ahead. Nobody said anything about being ahead. Post 30-minute Zoe can and will one shot any sort of carry after landing a bubble without being ahead. You can't maintain vision of all sides while being sieged, and being sieged doesn't mean you're behind. At best, your wards are sweeped and the fact that a Zoe bubble from a fog will dumpster 70-80% of your support's health (if not kill them) prevents them from rewarding. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about or how the game works above Bronze, stop posting.
rujitra (NA)
: Then ward or play careful when you don't have vision.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZEJmJJJd,comment-id=00000002000100000000,timestamp=2018-12-02T03:31:50.381+0000) > > Then ward or play careful when you don't have vision. You can't maintain complete vision control or 'play safe' when you're being sieged at 30 minutes, unless 'playing safe' involves backing off and giving up everything up to your Nexus turrets.
rujitra (NA)
: Aren't you in diamond? And you know the mechanic yet can't dodge it?
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZEJmJJJd,comment-id=000000020001,timestamp=2018-12-02T01:04:30.815+0000) > > Aren't you in diamond? > > And you know the mechanic yet can't dodge it? It moves at 1500 speed and has a radius of 250. It's mathematically unavoidable if it's coming directly at you and you don't see her casting it. There is no direction you can move in to dodge in time, unless you flash, even if you have instant reaction time. It has to be side stepped while she's in the casting animation, which is why pushing it through terrain is problematic.
Rioter Comments
Rock MD (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkYoaOqM,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-01T11:24:22.383+0000) > > It's because they polled the general population and junglers thrive off of poor awareness and lack of vision, which is constantly present in 95% of players' games Jungle is most oppressive at high elo, where 2 patches ago 80% of the KR jungle ladder was comprised of almost exclusively Xin, Camille and Taliyah players. don't post
> [{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JkYoaOqM,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2018-12-01T19:01:39.667+0000) > > Jungle is most oppressive at high elo, where 2 patches ago 80% of the KR jungle ladder was comprised of almost exclusively Xin, Camille and Taliyah players. > > don't post Is it 2 patches ago right now? The recent changes to jungle EXP and turrets made jungle more reliant on mistakes and a bit weaker. There's a reason jungle is constantly auto-filled. Don't post.
: Dodge the bubble then its ok
> [{quoted}](name=7thHeaven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZEJmJJJd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-01T11:01:37.049+0000) > > Dodge the bubble then its ok That would be fine if it didn't have the terrain extension mechanic that lets her throw it from virtually anywhere on either side of the lane and still have it reach the other side of the lane
Rock MD (NA)
: NA, KR, and BR voted jg as the strongest role according to Meddler's QGT
It's because they polled the general population and junglers thrive off of poor awareness and lack of vision, which is constantly present in 95% of players' games
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
TKM Axe (EUW)
: how much cs did he farm after the last death?
> [{quoted}](name=TKM Axe,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6eOh8QIr,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-01T10:06:30.593+0000) > > how much cs did he farm after the last death? The bounty is from farming minions, **but** he's only worth 176 baseline from intentionally feeding. This should not be allowed to happen; someone with a reduced bounty from deaths shouldn't have it cancelled by CSing.
Rioter Comments
: You shouldn't be jungling from behind if you are playing well, so the point is mute. If you are not playing well then you should practice more often.
> [{quoted}](name=Crown of Flame,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F90UuxFc,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-12-01T04:32:29.480+0000) > > You shouldn't be jungling from behind if you are playing well, so the point is mute. If you are not playing well then you should practice more often. Most jungle match ups are binary, there is no skill expression above baseline if it comes to a jungler vs. jungler duel. One either flat out beats the other no matter what, or the first one to get vision of the other wins. Also, as I've said in other posts (which you clearly didn't read), if you're 0-0-2 and the enemy jungler is 2-1-0, you're jungling from behind, just because you didn't get the killing blows. Another scenario is one of your lanes kills their opponent 1v1, and the jungler goes there to soak a huge wave of minions at the turret. Once again, you're behind.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F90UuxFc,comment-id=000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-01T00:08:50.638+0000) > If you die to a lane bully early, you go back to lane and farm under your turret. You get a minion wave every 30 seconds, and likely still have some minions backed up from when you died, because early respawn timers are so low. You also have summoner spell options to mitigate downtime if you expect to be pushed out of lane. This isnt what happens though? You die once and they will freeze you from ever having a single CS more, a powerful LB for instance will just literally sit on your caster minions and smack your face for ever dreaming of farming a bit. If playing a mage vs an assassin they will just faceroll engage on you looking to either blow you up or force a recall. However me trying to explain in detail seems pointless when some convenient videos exist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QHcWr6j-Ek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuPuqGg7Dtg This is basically how it works, combine the ideas from these two and you should be pretty solid as long as you know how to adapt what the video´s discuss into your actual games. Good luck. Oh and this one while a bit outdated is pretty good too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCaDokKy86s
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F90UuxFc,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-01T00:28:10.577+0000) > > This isnt what happens though? > > You die once and they will freeze you from ever having a single CS more, a powerful LB for instance will just literally sit on your caster minions and smack your face for ever dreaming of farming a bit. > > If playing a mage vs an assassin they will just faceroll engage on you looking to either blow you up or force a recall. > > However me trying to explain in detail seems pointless when some convenient videos exist. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QHcWr6j-Ek > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuPuqGg7Dtg > > > This is basically how it works, combine the ideas from these two and you should be pretty solid as long as you know how to adapt what the video´s discuss into your actual games. > > Good luck. > > Oh and this one while a bit outdated is pretty good too. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCaDokKy86s I play both mages and jungle at a Diamond level, I'm not sure why you're posting any of this. https://i.imgur.com/13FSp54.jpg
: Except the things you describe are exactly like they were in season 3/4. Nothing could stop the snowball of Leblanc or Talon. Except Leblancs kit was actually stronger overall. Talon didn’t have his bullshit E - but he did have more damage. Hell, Zed was more mobile (lower CD W and maxed second). Kassadin was more mobile. Fizz had a lower CD E. Not to mention the cancer that was Nidalee. Or talking about no counterplay, good ol’Rengar. Literally every game was an assassin single handedly taking over the game. But that’s what we wanted, right guys??? Season 3 amirite? No way nostalgia goggles did anything?
> [{quoted}](name=charge attack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NgkLlFEn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-14T11:43:14.662+0000) > > Except the things you describe are exactly like they were in season 3/4. Nothing could stop the snowball of Leblanc or Talon. > > Except Leblancs kit was actually stronger overall. Talon didn’t have his bullshit E - but he did have more damage. > > Hell, Zed was more mobile (lower CD W and maxed second). Kassadin was more mobile. Fizz had a lower CD E. > > Not to mention the cancer that was Nidalee. Or talking about no counterplay, good ol’Rengar. > > Literally every game was an assassin single handedly taking over the game. > > But that’s what we wanted, right guys??? Season 3 amirite? No way nostalgia goggles did anything? Uhh what? This is all so wrong that I don't know what to say. Damage was significantly lower in season 3. The idea of going 100 to 0 in 2-3 seconds was absurd. These champions had more consistent damage, but they didn't 100 to 0 you instantly like they do now.
: > [{quoted}](name=Haze97,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F90UuxFc,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2018-12-01T00:03:25.721+0000) > > Most junglers can invade and kill you while they're two levels and one item above you. Cheese invades are those that happen under the first clear, they are the most rewarding and damaging but also the ones that cost the most if they fail. If you somehow fall behind a full item and 2 levels later then you screwed up badly along the way, or your laners did. But how, in which way, is a fed lee sin/shaco different to you as a jungler compared to a fed LB/zed/kassadin or fizz in the midlane? They will interfere with your farming at any cost, they will attempt to murder you over and over and prevent you from ever passing the early game soundly. I really fail to see the difference.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F90UuxFc,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2018-12-01T00:15:11.416+0000) > > Cheese invades are those that happen under the first clear, they are the most rewarding and damaging but also the ones that cost the most if they fail. > > If you somehow fall behind a full item and 2 levels later then you screwed up badly along the way, or your laners did. > > But how, in which way, is a fed lee sin/shaco different to you as a jungler compared to a fed LB/zed/kassadin or fizz in the midlane? > > They will interfere with your farming at any cost, they will attempt to murder you over and over and prevent you from ever passing the early game soundly. > > I really fail to see the difference. You're just derailing this thread with poor game knowledge and lack of understanding of how the game works at a high level. The problem isn't cheese invades, the problem is post-first clear invades. Earlier invades are predictable and can be countered, because you know where the enemy jungler started. The later invades are not. You don't need to be behind a full item, most jungle match ups are pushed over the edge by just a 600-700 gold difference or even one level difference, especially the enemy hitting level 6 while you're level 5. If you both have 2 kill participation, but you only scored assists, while the enemy scored both kills, you're too behind to fight them.
: > [{quoted}](name=SwiftKitten88,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F90UuxFc,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-30T23:21:02.925+0000) > > no... it's really not... the fact that u can even say that means u dont know how jungling works. > > if u give up CS.. u give up gold... > if u give up a camp... you not only give up gold... u give up exp.. and u no longer have that camp to take as > camps respawn slowly. > if u lose a buff.. u also lost the mana regne from blue or DOT from red > you also cant contest scuttle anymore putting you even further behind.. > you cant ever 1v1 thier jungler.. and becuase they know they are free to invade any time they want. > there is literally NOTHING u can do if u are behind as a jungler I dont think you get it. What is the worst case scenario for someone getting invaded? Its they themselves dying and the enemy getting both a kill and all the nearby camps, much the same as dying early to a lanebully and they instantly showing a large wave into your tower causing you to fall behind massively both in gold and EXP because you didnt respect their early power enough. So, the answer is simple, just like it is for dealing with lanebullies.......give up what you cant reliably secure and do everything possible to ensure you get what you absolutely need, even if it means giving up on a "optimal pathing" that you´d otherwise chose 10 out 10 times. As long as you dont die and lose completely there is hope. Its the same for dealing with say Zed as a mage in the midlane, no matter what you have to rush zhonya or he will rip you to pieces.....even if this screws the early game really, really hard. Contest scuttler? Homie scuttler dominance is decided by however has the 2 advantage in the matchup, giving up scuttler is someone everyone does from time to time. While its true that jungle matchups are punishing you havent known pain until you meet a counterpick toplane, that is pure misery incarnate.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F90UuxFc,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-30T23:57:47.901+0000) > > I dont think you get it. > > What is the worst case scenario for someone getting invaded? > > Its they themselves dying and the enemy getting both a kill and all the nearby camps, much the same as dying early to a lanebully and they instantly showing a large wave into your tower causing you to fall behind massively both in gold and EXP because you didnt respect their early power enough. > > > So, the answer is simple, just like it is for dealing with lanebullies.......give up what you cant reliably secure and do everything possible to ensure you get what you absolutely need, even if it means giving up on a "optimal pathing" that you´d otherwise chose 10 out 10 times. > > As long as you dont die and lose completely there is hope. > > Its the same for dealing with say Zed as a mage in the midlane, no matter what you have to rush zhonya or he will rip you to pieces.....even if this screws the early game really, really hard. > > > Contest scuttler? Homie scuttler dominance is decided by however has the 2 advantage in the matchup, giving up scuttler is someone everyone does from time to time. > > While its true that jungle matchups are punishing you havent known pain until you meet a counterpick toplane, that is pure misery incarnate. What? If you die to a lane bully early, you go back to lane and farm under your turret. You get a minion wave every 30 seconds, and likely still have some minions backed up from when you died, because early respawn timers are so low. You also have summoner spell options to mitigate downtime if you expect to be pushed out of lane. If you die to a jungle invasion, your camps are all gone for the next 150 seconds (equivalent to five minion waves). At best, you have to go to the other side of the jungle, and now the enemy jungle who already successfully invaded you knows exactly where you are and can pressure you there, because it's the only place on the map with something for you to do. At worst, all of the jungle camps on your side of the map are down and you have nothing to do. On top of that, dying to lane bullies means you fucked up. You know that they can kill you. You play safely and farm under your turret. In the jungle, even if you know the enemy jungle can kill you, you don't have a tower to defend you while you farm. Even if you see them invading you, all you can do is give up the camp. If the enemy jungler spends the entire game in your jungle and you/your team can't stop them, you can end up having to give up every single camp. These are some idiotic Bronze level comparisons. Rank restricted forums when?
: Learning which junglers can invade and cheese you and when is pretty much a requirement for any dedicated jungler, i dont really see why this shouldnt be the case as the lanes have bullies doing much the same.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F90UuxFc,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-11-30T17:47:11.655+0000) > > Learning which junglers can invade and cheese you and when is pretty much a requirement for any dedicated jungler, i dont really see why this shouldnt be the case as the lanes have bullies doing much the same. The problem is that even if you know which junglers can invade and cheese you, there isn't really anything you can do with that knowledge. If they catch you in your jungle, you're dead at worst, or lose your camps at best, and you don't have any turret to farm under. Once you're behind, you stay behind unless the enemy jungler is bad.
Rioter Comments
: assuming you care about winning or losing. if you are like me and don't care then norms are pretty fine while ranked is a cesspool.
> [{quoted}](name=Goblin Ranger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yWJPBrG8,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-30T07:00:50.419+0000) > > assuming you care about winning or losing. if you are like me and don't care then norms are pretty fine while ranked is a cesspool. Neither is fun when the game is completely over before 10 minutes, because one team is up 15+ kills.
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Yenn

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