Yenn (NA)
: Soft inting and alternate accounts seriously need to be addressed
I just got this player on my team **again**. This is fucking ridiculous. https://i.imgur.com/yAdY5fm.jpg[] https://i.imgur.com/AmS10UR.jpg[]
iiGazeii (NA)
: There's an option to toggle on "target champions only". I recommend rebinding it to a key that's easy to reach, but one you won't press accidentally, like caps lock or an extra button on your mouse. It makes it much easier to chase, attack, and target champions without needing to worry about hitting a minion, tower, or ward instead. Just get in the habit of toggling it on when you're committing to fighting, and it saves you a world of trouble.
> [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiMzhRoX,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-15T06:30:31.461+0000) > > There's an option to toggle on "target champions only". I recommend rebinding it to a key that's easy to reach, but one you won't press accidentally, like caps lock or an extra button on your mouse. It makes it much easier to chase, attack, and target champions without needing to worry about hitting a minion, tower, or ward instead. Just get in the habit of toggling it on when you're committing to fighting, and it saves you a world of trouble. It doesn't work with attack move.
Rioter Comments
: Don't think it's that simple.
> [{quoted}](name=Wínters Dawn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3ljRJKVA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-15T03:57:35.309+0000) > > Don't think it's that simple. It is that simple
Done25 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrwBWWIV,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-15T02:08:49.673+0000) > > Riot just before the preseason - "We hear you don't like how snowbally the game's become recently, so over the preseason we're going to attempt to reduce snowballing by buffing towers early game!" > > *Only introduces turret plating which means enemies can now get a huge gold lead even if you attempt to play safe!* Turret plating significantly reduces the rate at which a 5 man can just burn the tower down. Yes it's money, but it's money they would have gotten by just taking your tower and leaving you defenseless anyways.
> [{quoted}](name=Done25,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrwBWWIV,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-15T02:14:16.265+0000) > > Turret plating significantly reduces the rate at which a 5 man can just burn the tower down. Yes it's money, but it's money they would have gotten by just taking your tower and leaving you defenseless anyways. Wait, what? Each outer turret is now worth up to 1100-1250 gold, where as before, a single turret was only worth 300/600 gold. It's not remotely the same.
: pyke is an assassin carry though
> [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZKxnNJWw,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-15T01:56:02.218+0000) > > pyke is an assassin carry though Pyke isn't a carry. He falls off hard in the mid to late game.
: what if the support is pyke?
> [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZKxnNJWw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-15T01:53:05.517+0000) > > what if the support is pyke? The support was Pyke, but most of the kills weren't with his ult, or another champion was involved and they received his ult gold instead of me. And it still doesn't share the bounty gold, either way.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=kingDeDeDarius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rsJO06NU,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-14T17:10:05.457+0000) > > What part of 3-7-2 did you miss? Quin was fed, vayne was far behind. Even if quin was playing g with the intelligence of a monkey, she should have won a 1v1. Stop trying to defend broke bs like this current iteration of vayne. We all know she's busted My highest mastery is riven. Quinn does win 1v1 if she’s fed, I can’t survive Quinn combos as riven. I’ve fucked up games. As a vayne main, there’s not much you can do if you get jumped. You take the initial hit and R+Q to wait out the blind, but you’re already at half HP. One crit and you’re dead. Stop spouting irrational non sense over things you have no clue about. Don’t even make be bring rank into this. {{champion:92}}
> [{quoted}](name=Prestige Vayne,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rsJO06NU,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-14T22:43:18.264+0000) > > My highest mastery is riven. > > Quinn does win 1v1 if she’s fed, I can’t survive Quinn combos as riven. I’ve fucked up games. As a vayne main, there’s not much you can do if you get jumped. You take the initial hit and R+Q to wait out the blind, but you’re already at half HP. One crit and you’re dead. > > Stop spouting irrational non sense over things you have no clue about. > > Don’t even make be bring rank into this. > > {{champion:92}} You don't know this match up at all. You don't take the initial hit, and Vayne wins because she prevents me from doing a full combo, on top of also drawing my partial combo out over a long period with Tumble, giving her plenty of opportunity to cover my damage with life steal. Yes, if the Vayne is garbage and doesn't interrupt my combo, I will kill her quickly with an AA + E + AA + Q + multiple AAs, but that doesn't realistically ever happen unless it's auto-filled. Quinn loses a duel if her combo doesn't get a kill. The tl;dr of why Quinn doesn't win is that I need four Harrier procs to kill her (or really any ADC): one from ult dropping, one from E, one from Q, and one passively after Q. She can deny both my first and last one with Tumble, as well as kite me. When I auto attack out of my ult, there's a brief delay caused by my ult dropping. If she tumbles during the animation, she gets marked by it, but I don't get the auto off. She can then come out of Tumble beyond my attack range and start kiting me backwards, because she has a longer attack range and higher movement speed than I do (and probably BotRK active) unless I have Harrier procced, which I don't right now. I have to Vault her, which overwrites and wastes my mark from dropping ult. We can trade two hits before she Tumbles again, and this time, she usually breaks stealth right on top of me. I need to blind her to get my second Harrier proc, and she can continue to attack me while blinded. I've already lost at this point, because Vayne has significantly higher sustained damage, blind isn't helping me avoid any of it, and my burst window is over. If she's really behind and I can still potentially kill her with only three marks, her Tumble comes off cooldown at the same time as the third mark goes up, and she can just wait it out and then auto + Condemn me out of range when the stealth runs out, at which point I'll be out of range and no longer have the movement speed from Harrier, and she can stay at the edge of my range and run me down once the mark drops off. She also gets a slight advantage every time she comes out of tumble, because I have to guess at where she's going to come out of stealth at, and then factor in reaction time and movement time to get in range. If there are no other targets around, I can attack move to remove the delay for reaction time, but then she can drop her ward on me as she's coming out of stealth and my attack will go to the ward, and I'll lose more time on the wasted auto than I would reacting.
: Why were you trying to solo a Nasus anyway? What's your intention with this fight? Were you expecting a full 100% win without building {{item:3036}} {{item:3033}} or something?
> [{quoted}](name=BeatzBoyFTW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1G75ewME,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-14T10:01:31.745+0000) > > Why were you trying to solo a Nasus anyway? What's your intention with this fight? Were you expecting a full 100% win without building {{item:3036}} {{item:3033}} or something? I thought my team was going to turn on him, because the Hecarim they were chasing was out of their range and they weren't going to/didn't catch him. Also, his only armor item is Cloth Armor, and I have over 1000g and a completed item over him. Dying in 3 seconds to a champion with less gold right clicking me is pretty dumb. > [{quoted}](name=Dorans Pants,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1G75ewME,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-14T10:13:04.802+0000) > > And he still had to flash /s > {{sticker:sg-ezreal}} He didn't actually have to Flash, he could have just Withered and spent 4 seconds killing me instead of 3.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: I mean - I don't get it. If this strategy works so well in the early game, but then he starts feeding the rest of the game, why aren't players abusing the same early game strategy without shitting the bed for the rest of the game? Can you direct-message me the player's name so I can look up some replays for myself?
> [{quoted}](name=ValyrianBlade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kzMEdgUo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-13T13:09:39.393+0000) > > I mean - I don't get it. If this strategy works so well in the early game, but then he starts feeding the rest of the game, why aren't players abusing the same early game strategy without shitting the bed for the rest of the game? > > Can you direct-message me the player's name so I can look up some replays for myself? There are very few Alistar mains, it doesn't work if the enemy team plays safely, and you're completely fucked if one of your solo lanes doesn't get enough of an advantage from it to hard carry, because your ADC is 1v2 and won't be relevant in the late game. It's not a good or reliable strategy. > [{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kzMEdgUo,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-13T14:05:10.122+0000) > > if it looks stupid, but it works, then its not stupid. > > but seriously its probably akin to int sion/ solo singed. it involves saying fk you to a team member or two, but still works. so they must be doing SOMETHING right. It only works because the early game snowballs out of control so easily, like I said in a post. It displays a major issue with the current state of balance. The same strategy last season got this player demoted out of Diamond V multiple times, which is extremely hard to do without intentionally losing games, and eventually banned. It's not the same as Sion/Singed, they actually accomplish things like map pressure through out the game. After the early game, he just dies, over and over, without accomplishing anything. Imagine the entire team starts heading down mid lane, from the fountain, at the same time. The entire team is at the river, while Alistar has already started diving the inhibitor turret, because he has so much movement speed that the rest of the team can't keep up. By the time they get to the enemy base, Alistar is already dead. > [{quoted}](name=Dönald J Trump,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kzMEdgUo,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-13T16:11:56.700+0000) > > I don't really consider this feeding. Because he clearly has so many assists, he's fighting with the team when he dies. Feeding would be 0/18/0, not 3/18/26. It's a lot of deaths, but it's not feeding. Feeding is intentionally dying to help the enemy team. He's dying to help his own team. Okay, but nobody cares what you do or don't consider it. The only thing that matters is that virtually everyone who has played with this player, along with Riot, consider it feeding. If you actually read the post, you would see that he actually is intentionally dying later in the game, just not in the early game.
RallerenP (EUW)
: So looking through your match history, if found the 'infamous' player. My only question is: How do you define inting, deterministically. (Meaning, you can't just say: "Inting is intentionally losing"). What steps would one have to take, to verify that a player is inting? You could look at the score? But he isn't doing paticularly horrible KDA-wise. Sure he has a lot of deaths, but he also has alot of assists and kills. The damage? He consistently does an expected amount of damage for a support Alistar. Doing role related things? He also often places a shit ton of vision. The build? Nothing is inherently wrong with his build. You shouldn't get punished for not building the exact same items anyone else does. And infact, over the last 110 games, he had a positive winrate? So why do you say he's inting? Unless I have the totally wrong player (I'm talking about the 'Ohmwrecker Alistar'), there isn't any conclusive proof that he is actually trying to lose, right? And if it's not possible to determine whether or not someone is inting, then how is *Riot* supposed to do so? Soft inting is per definition not something you can detect. It's inting, that isn't detectable. So how do you expect 'soft inting' to be adressed in any way?
> [{quoted}](name=RallerenP,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TEmKw6bZ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-13T11:21:50.297+0000) > > So looking through your match history, if found the 'infamous' player. > > My only question is: How do you define inting, deterministically. (Meaning, you can't just say: "Inting is intentionally losing"). What steps would one have to take, to verify that a player is inting? > > You could look at the score? But he isn't doing paticularly horrible KDA-wise. Sure he has a lot of deaths, but he also has alot of assists and kills. > > The damage? He consistently does an expected amount of damage for a support Alistar. > > Doing role related things? He also often places a shit ton of vision. > > The build? Nothing is inherently wrong with his build. You shouldn't get punished for not building the exact same items anyone else does. > > And infact, over the last 110 games, he had a positive winrate? > > So why do you say he's inting? Unless I have the totally wrong player (I'm talking about the 'Ohmwrecker Alistar'), there isn't any conclusive proof that he is actually trying to lose, right? > > And if it's not possible to determine whether or not someone is inting, then how is *Riot* supposed to do so? > > Soft inting is per definition not something you can detect. It's inting, that isn't detectable. So how do you expect 'soft inting' to be adressed in any way? In this case, the combination of the consistent pattern of incredibly high deaths and the volume of reports should be able to algorithmic-ally identify that something is wrong. If an actual human is looking at it, his chat logs don't leave any question about whether or not he's inting; he literally says in chat that he's doing it. I made another post about this, but it starts off as just hyper aggressive play, which works very well for Alistar in the early game, but transitions into actual bonafide intentional feeding as the game progresses. He's doing the same thing at all stages of the game, but his early game strength makes it work in the early game, while it has zero chance of success in the late game. He 'locks on' to any champion that gets near him, and chases it down until one of them dies. After the early game, the only possible outcome is Alistar dying. For example, in one game, we watched him chase a full health Malzahar from his outer turret all the way to his inhibitor around 21 minutes, while the entire team was at the base. After about 25 minutes, he said he was bored with the game, and started running directly into the enemy AD carry every time he respawned. He was basically permanently dead. The win rate is a side effect of this season's early game having insane snowball potential. In the season he was banned for it, it didn't work so well in the early game, and he actually demoted out of Diamond V multiple times, which is extremely hard to do.
Ozzburne (NA)
: They are? They announced it before you posted? You are all idiots????
> [{quoted}](name=Ozzburne,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VznjJZtK,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-13T10:55:52.921+0000) > > They are? They announced it before you posted? You are all idiots???? Yeah, no, they're not hotfixing it. We're forced to deal with this monstrosity as-is until the next patch.
Rioter Comments
: If he has multiple permabanned accounts, that means Riot just hasn't gotten to the rest yet. Unless he ints on all those accounts on a popular stream linking them together, as Tyler1 did to earn himself an ID ban, Riot has to individually evaluate and escalate each instance.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TEmKw6bZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-13T10:28:58.088+0000) > > If he has multiple permabanned accounts, that means Riot just hasn't gotten to the rest yet. Unless he ints on all those accounts on a popular stream linking them together, as Tyler1 did to earn himself an ID ban, Riot has to individually evaluate and escalate each instance. It took well over 1000 games before Riot banned his main account, last season. It's very likely that because of the way he does it, it's only the insane volume of reports that got him banned. The issue here is more that it's much harder than it should be to get him banned, even though he's clearly evading a ban and intentionally feeding, even going so far as to say it in chat.
: not sure if its the same guy but i had an alistar in november that built ga and stood in bot lane behind the turret avoiding doing anything and watched us lose. The account had a bunch of match history fileld with it as well, it's really mindblowing that the system doesn't see that an account has been spam reported for inting multiple games in a row and flag it and ban it immediately. Or at least send it to one of the player support people to review and manually ban it or something.
> [{quoted}](name=Not HeIping You,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TEmKw6bZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-13T10:02:58.168+0000) > > not sure if its the same guy but i had an alistar in november that built ga and stood in bot lane behind the turret avoiding doing anything and watched us lose. The account had a bunch of match history fileld with it as well, it's really mindblowing that the system doesn't see that an account has been spam reported for inting multiple games in a row and flag it and ban it immediately. Or at least send it to one of the player support people to review and manually ban it or something. No, he rushes all movement speed items (Boots of Mobility, Deadman's Plate, Ohmwrecker, etc.) and it's something that looks like a viable build, but he plays hyper aggressively and goes all in on any champion that gets near him 24/7, while spamming chat with all caps, making it clear that he's not taking the game seriously. He manages to win some games, because top and middle don't expect to be ganked by an Alistar 24/7, and sometimes someone snowballs out of control, but as the game progresses, it turns into actual intentional feeding and he starts complaining about 'being bored' and spamming surrender if it goes past 25 minutes. He has 12-20 deaths in every single game. In my last game, he wasn't happy because we were playing too passively, so he began repeatedly running directly down mid lane for whatever champion was defending the outter turret, often chasing them to the inhibitor before dying. Basically, it's something that's not obviously inting, even though he has double digit deaths in every game. But Riot clearly has identified this behavior as inting, as he has multiple banned accounts.
: Nope. Not going back to 35 minute queues.
> [{quoted}](name=Snake of Avarice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3toOzPcb,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-13T09:41:25.802+0000) > > Nope. Not going back to 35 minute queues. You've never experienced 35 minute queues and we've never had this system without auto-fill, so we have no idea how long queues would be without it. Why are you even posting in this thread? Also, at Platinum III, it currently takes me on average 20+ minutes to get into a game, because every lobby is dodged at the last moment by someone who is auto-filled. My last game was 23 minutes ago and I still haven't gotten into another game.
  Rioter Comments
: i'd keep the shield but not let it be as strong as it is. As it is, at all stages of the game it's good. It shouldn't be able to completely deny poke. Maybe 2/3 the shield value would be enough. He is a melee squishy.
> [{quoted}](name=RyzenLord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VznjJZtK,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-13T08:44:55.558+0000) > > i'd keep the shield but not let it be as strong as it is. As it is, at all stages of the game it's good. It shouldn't be able to completely deny poke. Maybe 2/3 the shield value would be enough. He is a melee squishy. That doesn't accomplish much, most mid lane champions can't interact with Yasuo enough to even pop the shield.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Yenn (NA)
: Kill gold really needs to be reworked to account for how hard the game snowballs right now
I just had a game where I was 6-1-5 as ADC. We dominated bottom lane. Except our top lane was feeding horribly. The 10-2-1 Olaf literally just ulted with Ghostblade and ran me down, and I couldn't do anything about it. He just automatically won the game because our top was feeding so hard. Zero fucking reward for playing well. The enemy team had much more gold concentrated into one champion, despite the game being 'even,' and automatically won by brute force. This is exactly why this bullshit needs to be changed.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2QVWEngu,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-12T08:58:05.319+0000) > > I've had no problem getting to Diamond within 50 games at the start of every past season, the timing shouldn't matter. > > Income isn't too high as long as everyone's income is relatively the same, but i.e. turret plating gives the winning team up to 2400 free gold for being ahead early, on top of bounties on the one or two players who aren't feeding on the losing team. > > The current meta probably gives too much incentive to play like a hyper aggressive monkey, because if you get slightly ahead with this play style, you'll easily snowball out of control with little counterplay. This was also a problem last season, but it wasn't as bad as it is now, because most of the agency was in bottom lane and everyone understood that and could play around it. This season, the lanes are basically islands. How would you reduce gold leads? Do you think it would be more effective to reduce income in general (tower plating, assist gold, whatever), or to create/increase "comeback" gold?
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2QVWEngu,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T09:17:51.191+0000) > > How would you reduce gold leads? Do you think it would be more effective to reduce income in general (tower plating, assist gold, whatever), or to create/increase "comeback" gold? Any sort of comeback gold isn't useful, because the winning team is getting such a huge advantage that there's no way for the team that's behind to acquire or utilize it. Imo the best change would be to better distribute kill gold differently, so a single champion who happened to get too many killing blows in an otherwise relatively even game doesn't snowball out of control, and possibly start to limit kill gold once a champion is too far ahead, to shift their focus to objectives and mitigate how badly a feeding player can throw the game.
mack9112 (NA)
: First off you have been diamond once with all previous seasons you being in was plat. If you go back and look at your own game history you have plenty of games that you perform rather poorly. It is my opinion that people who always blame others will never get anywhere in life or this game. Plenty of people can climb and do well why can't you ? The meta shifts and with it different strengths become important.
> [{quoted}](name=mack9112,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2QVWEngu,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-12T10:15:23.110+0000) > > First off you have been diamond once with all previous seasons you being in was plat. > > If you go back and look at your own game history you have plenty of games that you perform rather poorly. > > It is my opinion that people who always blame others will never get anywhere in life or this game. Plenty of people can climb and do well why can't you ? The meta shifts and with it different strengths become important. Yeah, uh, no, I just happen to normally not be playing at the end of the season and decay out of Diamond. It's well documented, like these old threads: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/ygQdtcZE-welcome-to-diamond-5-yenn-was-right http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4083917 http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4040792 You can't identify 'playing poorly' without watching a game. After the enemy is fed to a certain point, the only way I can avoid dying (especially if I'm the only one not feeding) is by sitting at the fountain. Get out of here.
: Do you believe any of this is due to it being pretty early in the ranked season? Do you think gold income in general is too high? Do you think people feed and leave on purpose, or do you think they're initially trying to do well and only leaving because they don't see any way to salvage a win after their unintentional deaths?
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2QVWEngu,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-12T08:42:21.136+0000) > > Do you believe any of this is due to it being pretty early in the ranked season? > > Do you think gold income in general is too high? > > Do you think people feed and leave on purpose, or do you think they're initially trying to do well and only leaving because they don't see any way to salvage a win after their unintentional deaths? I've had no problem getting to Diamond within 50 games at the start of every past season, the timing shouldn't matter. Income isn't too high as long as everyone's income is relatively the same, but i.e. turret plating gives the winning team up to 2400 free gold for being ahead early, on top of bounties on the one or two players who aren't feeding on the losing team. The current meta probably gives too much incentive to play like a hyper aggressive monkey, because if you get slightly ahead with this play style, you'll easily snowball out of control with little counterplay. This was also a problem last season, but it wasn't as bad as it is now, because most of the agency was in bottom lane and everyone understood that and could play around it. This season, the lanes are basically islands.
Yenn (NA)
: This season is by far the worst yet. Having any impact on games is impossible.
Also, positional ranked is fucking horrible. Probably 1/5 games are won or lost because someone is soft inting/borderline trolling on their off roles. i.e. I just had a game where auto-filled top took Sylas (even though they have zero mastery) from our jungle, who decided to troll us in response. The top gives zero fucks, because they're not losing any real LP on their main role.
Rioter Comments
: ...with a grand total of **333** picks. That's not a trend, that's a statistical outlier. The only things even close to it are Mortal Reminder (which Vayne doesn't need any real additional Tank busting, and is bought mainly to counter heals), Frozen Mallet (something that would only be seen on like a Vayne top, and even then is picked more then SoS), and the goddamn Ornn Masterwork item (which is barely below SoS picks)
> [{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fMt0fAeY,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T06:43:18.814+0000) > > ...with a grand total of **333** picks. > > That's not a trend, that's a statistical outlier. > > The only things even close to it are Mortal Reminder (which Vayne doesn't need any real additional Tank busting, and is bought mainly to counter heals), Frozen Mallet (something that would only be seen on like a Vayne top, and even then is picked more then SoS), and the goddamn Ornn Masterwork item (which is barely below SoS picks) It has a significantly higher win rate than other low pick items that are built later (signifying that Vayne has reached late game, which should naturally have even higher win rate). People just haven't caught on to how absurdly broken being able to stealth every two autos is. There is literally nothing not amazing about being able to be almost permanently in stealth.
: What Vayne is building Spear of Shojin? Like, the only thing she really gains anything serious from is the 60 AD, and even then there are better AD items (and better defensive items then the 250 HP SoS gives) She doesn't want the passive, she doesn't want the CDR. All in all a kinda worthless item on her.
> [{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fMt0fAeY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-12T06:36:59.604+0000) > > What Vayne is building Spear of Shojin? Ones who like winning https://i.imgur.com/AyPUslP.jpg[]
Rioter Comments
Yenn (NA)
: Kill gold really needs to be reworked to account for how hard the game snowballs right now
To display the problem, last game I was bottom lane, and while we won the lane with me being up 2-0-1 as Jhin and the enemy Vayne being down over 50 CS, the enemy team's Zed was 12-2-3. I'm basically being one shot because he has such an insane number advantage. Even collecting the 1000g bounty on him, he still instantly deletes me. There was no reward for playing well and winning lane, because some negligent monkeys have been AFK feeding for the past 15 minutes.
Hotarµ (NA)
: He did just fine before Stormrazor was even released, in fact he was one of the top ADCs in the game. He's been able to contest with them before, why can't he do it now considering everyone is (almost) back to where they were before?
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WoPb6J4j,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:02:36.929+0000) > > He did just fine before Stormrazor was even released, in fact he was one of the top ADCs in the game. He's been able to contest with them before, why can't he do it now considering everyone is (almost) back to where they were before? Everything isn't 'back to where they were before,' many ADCs received buffs to compensate for how weak they were when crit itemization was weakened, and they weren't taken away when it was reverted, while ADCs who had strong synergy with Stormrazor were nerfed and not compensated. Also, Jhin wasn't a very strong pick until Stormrazor happened. If a Twitch can dish out 2000 damage with two autos in 1 second, while Jhin can deal out 2500 with two autos in 1.3 seconds, Twitch is the winner because Jhin is dead before he gets the second auto off.
: > Spoiler: Just because you have kills doesn't mean you outplayed your opponent. In top lane, for example, counterpicks are significantly more important than skill. But you still got killed. That is a misplay by you which should be rewarded for the enemy. > There are also any number of things that can get you an advantage over your opponent that makes you auto-win the lane; for example, a fight in the river where your team got two kills and the enemy team got three kills. Your team technically lost, but you got both killing blows, and the enemy only got two assists. You're now able to stomp your lane opponent with the huge advantage the kills gave you, even though you technically lost the fight. That means the rest of you team has an advantage so just play safe and ask for assistance to get the juicy 450 gold, 1.5 kills worth. There is give and take with every move you make in the game. > Assuming that having kills means you outplayed someone and should be rewarded by being able to one shot anyone who comes near you is completely wrong. Never said that and it isn't true unless you get extremely fed. > The player issue can't be fixed as long as overly aggressive play is rewarded as heavily as it is when you're ahead. Overly aggressive play is actually in the worst place right now because bounties are so potent. The player issue needs to be fixed with an extremely hands on team dealt with the difficult hand to apply punishment for soft inting and giving up.
> [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T04:10:27.552+0000) > > But you still got killed. That is a misplay by you which should be rewarded for the enemy. A fight that went 2-3 should **not** be rewarded by giving one player on the side with two kills an overbearing advantage that lets them overpower their lane through sheer numbers. Both sides should be rewarded, but the reward being consolidated into one champion vs. spread across the champions involved pushes the one champion over the edge and starts the snowball. You're completely ignoring the reality of power spikes. > [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T04:10:27.552+0000) > > Overly aggressive play is actually in the worst place right now because bounties are so potent. The player issue needs to be fixed with an extremely hands on team dealt with the difficult hand to apply punishment for soft inting and giving up. I'm not sure why you keep posting this. This is not something Riot is going to do, period, so other solutions are needed. The prior seasons' changes have intentionally pushed the game in this direction of hyper aggressive plays. Riot is never going to start banning the players who either go 13-3 or 3-13, with no scores in between. Stop repeating yourself.
: > That's usually not an option. The snowball hits critical mass when one side has completed their first item; at that point, they become unstoppable, because the completed item is a massive powerspike over someone who only has half of their item's components. This is all about the player not realizing they have to play super safe until they also get their first item. Yes it is hard and yes you will lose CS, but it is better than soft inting. > You can try to gank them, but unless you're equally fed, they're probably going to win or escape with summoners. The artificially prolonged laning phase makes it extremely hard to do anything before it's too late. So either the gank was misplayed or you are both extremely far behind. While 1 or 2 kills behind a 1v2 is super easy unless huge misplays on the duos behalf. > You can't fix the players, so the game needs to be fixed. It is a player issue not a game issue. You can't just make kills useless without making the players that go for kills feel mistreated and feel as if the playstyle of mechanically outplaying your laner is under rewarded.
> [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=00010000000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:48:47.260+0000) > > This is all about the player not realizing they have to play super safe until they also get their first item. Yes it is hard and yes you will lose CS, but it is better than soft inting. > > So either the gank was misplayed or you are both extremely far behind. While 1 or 2 kills behind a 1v2 is super easy unless huge misplays on the duos behalf. > > It is a player issue not a game issue. You can't just make kills useless without making the players that go for kills feel mistreated and feel as if the playstyle of mechanically outplaying your laner is under rewarded. Spoiler: Just because you have kills doesn't mean you outplayed your opponent. In top lane, for example, counterpicks are significantly more important than skill. There are also any number of things that can get you an advantage over your opponent that makes you auto-win the lane; for example, a fight in the river where your team got two kills and the enemy team got three kills. Your team technically lost, but you got both killing blows, and the enemy only got two assists. You're now able to stomp your lane opponent with the huge advantage the kills gave you, even though you technically lost the fight. Assuming that having kills means you outplayed someone and should be rewarded by being able to one shot anyone who comes near you is completely wrong. The player issue can't be fixed as long as overly aggressive play is rewarded as heavily as it is when you're ahead.
: > [{quoted}](name=heroikc,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:36:28.900+0000) > > Yeah, but the problem is that snowball is TOO prevalent in games and the actual means of recovery is minimal at best. People are generally going to get sick either getting stomped or not getting carried by snowballers. This has been highlighted and dealt with years ago, for good reason. yeah and instead what they want is FREE pass to the late game. How about people actually learn to adapt? how about people actually learn to not feed uncontrollably? how about people learn that always fighting isn't the answer? how about people realize that going behind a couple of CS is better than giving away 5 kills to the enemy? how about people realize that just because one person in the enemy team is ahead that doesn't mean that they lost? how about people realize that you can make comebacks instead of giving up the instant the score is something like 7-0 10 mins in? how about people actually earn their late games instead of wanting it to be the norm? like I said before and like I said again, bounty gold isn't the issue. People being ahead is not the problem. There was a time where 10k gold leads literally meant nothing whatsoever since you could just stall the game endlessly with super ease. There was a point where you could reach 20k gold leads and still not be able to close games. Sorry but I rather not go back to those days where early game and gold leads meant nothing at all
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=00010000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:45:52.269+0000) > > yeah and instead what they want is FREE pass to the late game. How about people actually learn to adapt? how about people actually learn to not feed uncontrollably? how about people learn that always fighting isn't the answer? how about people realize that going behind a couple of CS is better than giving away 5 kills to the enemy? how about people realize that just because one person in the enemy team is ahead that doesn't mean that they lost? how about people realize that you can make comebacks instead of giving up the instant the score is something like 7-0 10 mins in? how about people actually earn their late games instead of wanting it to be the norm? like I said before and like I said again, bounty gold isn't the issue. People being ahead is not the problem. There was a time where 10k gold leads literally meant nothing whatsoever since you could just stall the game endlessly with super ease. There was a point where you could reach 20k gold leads and still not be able to close games. Sorry but I rather not go back to those days where early game and gold leads meant nothing at all Like I said, playing strategically and adapting to the situation is not the norm anymore. Everyone is just going balls to the wall 24/7 and feeding out of control once they're behind, because the pacing has pushed the game in this direction. This makes it impossible to climb and turns every game into a coinflip, because the team with the biggest monkey loses and nobody else in the game gets any say in the outcome.
: If you don't catch the snowball early then you should lose to the snowball that is the whole point if trying to go for an early snowball.
> [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:32:02.299+0000) > > If you don't catch the snowball early then you should lose to the snowball that is the whole point if trying to go for an early snowball. That's usually not an option. The snowball hits critical mass when one side has completed their first item; at that point, they become unstoppable, because the completed item is a massive powerspike over someone who only has half of their item's components. You can try to gank them, but unless you're equally fed, they're probably going to win or escape with summoners. The artificially prolonged laning phase makes it extremely hard to do anything before it's too late. > [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:41:22.504+0000) > > The problem is the player not the game. It has been for a long time now. I will give you two reasons why. > > 1. Player mentality is at an all time low and when a player sees one tiny thing go wrong they instantly give up. Some games are a grind and super hard and tedious to win especially with early game deficits, but most games are not decided in the first 10, 20, 25 minutes. If you think it is over than it is because you gave up not because it was not possible to recover. > > 2. Players not understanding that if they are behind they should sit back farm safe and just let themselves get carried. So many games I have lost because someone can't just farm safely after losing early trades. Honestly 50% of my loses are because of this. Yes, the problem is players who are behind playing like handicapped monkeys and feeding the shit out of the enemy team. This behavior has been promoted and rewarded by the recent change to make games faster paced, and the majority do not know how to play safely, and will never learn. You can't fix the players, so the game needs to be fixed.
: how are bounties helping the team that is ahead? the team that is ahead is the one who has the most to lose from bounties. Sorry but no, kill gold is the least of your worries when it comes to "snowballing"
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-12T02:45:54.644+0000) > > how are bounties helping the team that is ahead? the team that is ahead is the one who has the most to lose from bounties. Sorry but no, kill gold is the least of your worries when it comes to "snowballing" One person on the winning team is insanely ahead and has a 1000g bounty. The losing team has two lanes who have high CS because they're passively farming, and they have bounties for it. The person with the 1000g bounty has an insane advantage over the two farming champions and can easily collect the bounty on them, pushing them even further ahead. > [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-12T02:49:25.640+0000) > > What the actually fuck is this garbage I just read? Counter snowball is so much stronger than it used to be. Bounties make up for more than 50% of the gold you are behind from the kills given which is an insane return rate. If I have 5 kills on you let's say without any diminishing returns which they would have at that point, but I will make it seem less terrible than it is, you would get 1500 gold for 5 kills, but be worth 800 gold. That is more than 50% of the gold you were behind. For 1 kill you get more than 2.5 kills worth of gold. That is so strong. Once you're ahead by a large enough amount, it becomes extremely hard to die unless you fuck up horribly, because you're one shotting the enemy with your number advantage. You have to make a huge mistake to lose it. Sure, if you're playing in Bronze or Silver, maybe that happens. As long as you aren't playing like a monkey, there's enough free gold for the winning team to safely close out the game. Also, you aren't considering that which champions gets the killing blow on someone with a bounty matters. It can easily go to the support and be wasted.
: does jhin feel a little weaker to anyone this current patch?
His artificially limited attack speed makes it impossible for him to contest with crit ADCs after 3 items.
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Yenn (NA)
: This season is terrible. Every ranked game feels like it's scripted.
This is getting so ridiculous. Every game plays out the exact same way, with some variation in maybe 1/10 games. https://i.imgur.com/BZrV417.jpg[] Top lane counter picked and feeding, with some added kills to reset their bounty? Check. Bottom lane overpowered by aggressive lane and feeding? Check. The only thing missing is the jungle dying at scuttle and being permanently behind. These coinflip games that are over before they start are not fun and should not be the standard.
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: you think everything is garbage , if you create a post its about something you think is bad not saying its not true but that is all your post
> [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=16Ei6amn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-11T01:55:29.083+0000) > > you think everything is garbage , if you create a post its about something you think is bad > > not saying its not true but that is all your post Maybe there would be something positive to post if this season wasn't such a massive fuck up Currently in my next game with **another** auto-filled top and jungle, and the top is already feeding with Pyke.
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Yenn

Level 116 (NA)
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