: Yeah, no. You can sidestep the **e** (still with your W) and even if his E tags you, if you change your pathing as he Es he won't be "inside your hitbox" to make it so that there's "no way to avoid it". Kled lands his skillshot and gets rewarded. If he doesn't land his skillshot you can continue spamming grass or water enchant to harass him with no way for him to retaliate.
> [{quoted}](name=YvonnedUmD,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EBs8ZE2x,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-09-19T20:42:15.997+0000) > > Yeah, no. You can sidestep the **e** (still with your W) and even if his E tags you, if you change your pathing as he Es he won't be "inside your hitbox" to make it so that there's "no way to avoid it". You literally cannot miss a point blank skill shot, especially one without casting time, unless you're handicapped. It doesn't matter which direction you move in, you need upwards of 600 MS to clear enough distance to sidestep a close range trap thrown at the center of your hit box. If you can't land skill shots in melee range, it's a personal problem that you should work on. > If he doesn't land his skillshot you can continue spamming grass or water enchant to harass him with no way for him to retaliate. His skill shot is a 7 second cooldown. Qiyana's W is a 7 second cooldown. Kled also has more CDR through his standard build path (20% from Cleaver vs. 10% from whatever lethality item). At this point, you're just using dumpster tier game knowledge to make absurd conjectures about 'how you can win against Kled,' that are directly proven to be wrong by the fact that Qiyana has a 39% win rate against him at Diamond+. Unless, you know, you're just way better than every Diamond+ player.
: The plating gold is there to punish roaming and to make lanephase more valuable. You can't nullify your loss by getting a single successfull roam, and he can't turn his win into a mapwide pressure for free. Also, can't you just dodge his every Q with your W to the side?
> [{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EBs8ZE2x,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-19T10:06:47.841+0000) > > The plating gold is there to punish roaming and to make lanephase more valuable. You can't nullify your loss by getting a single successfull roam, and he can't turn his win into a mapwide pressure for free. > Also, can't you just dodge his every Q with your W to the side? He dashes into you before throwing it. Even if you dash at the same instant, he's inside your hit box and there's no way to avoid it. If you aren't holding Brush, he'll just auto you to death even if he misses; if you are holding Brush, you'll often have to replace it with a Rock or River because you aren't in range of another Brush, and his trap cooldown at max rank is the same as your W, so you can't do anything for the next 14 seconds (7 to pick up brush, another 7 for the cooldown) without probably dying. Alternatively, he can continually throw traps without dashing just to make you waste your W, then dash on top of you while it's down.
: Thoughts On Ballancing and why im probalby going to quit leauge soon
Posts like this are weird. Darius with Ghost dumpsters Kennen. Darius without Ghost is still in favor of Darius. It's one of Kennen's lowest win rate match ups, at 42-46%. Apprehend is roughly the same range as Kennen's auto attacks. If he gets Apprehended and Darius ghosts, he's guaranteed dead even if he ults. If he gets Apprehended and there is no ghost, he loses ~70% of his health, and he has no sustain. Darius heals over a portion of harassment he's taken from the Apprehend pulling him into the outer edge of Decimate, and Cripple allows at least two extra hits before he can disengage. A common strategy is for Darius to rush Phage, kill a minion as Kennen goes to CS or harass, and then use the speed boost to get in range to Apprehend. Kennen has to anticipate this and use E immediately. If you don't use Apprehend and he anticipates wrong, you're guaranteed to have him the next time he tries to get in auto range. The same applies to Gnar, but worse. His auto range is much lower than Apprehend. Any time he autos and Apprehend is up, he's guaranteed to get hit by it. The only mitigating factor here is that he's not reliant on movement speed, so he can disengage faster, and has more survivability. I think it says more about the state of balance that you can climb with this champion without having a very good understanding of his match ups.
: > acquire 2-3 kills worth of gold each time I roam One plating is worth 160 gold, one kill is worth 300. Getting 3 kills worth of gold is impossible just by breaking plates. For 2 kills he'd need to break 4 plates, which is virtually impossible to do within the time span of a regular roam. Usually you get 1-2 plates if your opponent leaves the lane. If you roam resulting in a kill and an assist, your team gained more gold than 2 platings are worth.
> [{quoted}](name=DerMangoJoghurt,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EBs8ZE2x,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-19T09:54:12.976+0000) > > One plating is worth 160 gold, one kill is worth 300. Getting 3 kills worth of gold is impossible just by breaking plates. For 2 kills he'd need to break 4 plates, which is virtually impossible to do within the time span of a regular roam. Usually you get 1-2 plates if your opponent leaves the lane. > > If you roam resulting in a kill and an assist, your team gained more gold than 2 platings are worth. Kills are generally worth less than 300 gold after the first couple minutes of the game. You'll never see a game where every kill you get is worth 300 gold. The total gold is 1250, and the turret is generally gone after the second roam. It averages to slightly more than 2 kills, likely closer to 3 with reduced bounties. Also, all of this gold is concentrated on one champion. This is far more effective than having the gold split, which is why team gold is a relatively useless indicator unless it's significantly higher for one team. A champion with a full item advantage can easily 1v2 or 1v3, even if the score and team gold is relatively even.
Juice (EUNE)
: Qiyana hard counters Kled, you just don't know how to play the lane and you got punished by the better player who snowballed on you.
> [{quoted}](name=Juice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EBs8ZE2x,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-19T09:20:11.494+0000) > > Qiyana hard counters Kled, you just don't know how to play the lane and you got punished by the better player who snowballed on you. https://i.imgur.com/rOtwMrr.jpg[] \> 39% win rate vs. Kled K
Tailypo (NA)
: not sure i understand what yer saying about the recap including only 70% of his dmg. how did you determine this?
> [{quoted}](name=Tailypo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zA5ArVMR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-19T04:32:02.782+0000) > > not sure i understand what yer saying about the recap including only 70% of his dmg. how did you determine this? I have 1400 health (+ 100-200 from shield). I go directly from fountain to 1v1 Teemo at full health and I die. The recap only shows about 1100 damage during the 8 second fight. This was consistent any time anyone tried to fight Teemo. The recap wouldn't add up to anywhere close to their total health.
Manxxom (NA)
: It's not the nunu's damage that makes him so reliable, it's his teamfight strength. He has a massive engage, small damage with an aoe root around him, can heal, and has an ultimate that nukes not only an enemy team's health, but their movement speed by a large margin.
> [{quoted}](name=Manxxom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5UqY2Kz0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-06T04:51:48.456+0000) > > It's not the nunu's damage that makes him so reliable, it's his teamfight strength. > He has a massive engage, small damage with an aoe root around him, can heal, and has an ultimate that nukes not only an enemy team's health, but their movement speed by a large margin. The problem isn't really his team fight strength, it's the mixture of mobility and CC. His ganks are too strong and he's virtually impossible to counter jungle, so he always sets the pace of the game. He moves across the map too quickly and no champion can stop him from disengaging a 1v1 if he gets caught, which allows him to very safely clear wards. Even if you maintain vision control of your lane entrances, if you're more than 1/3 of the way out, it's too late to back off by the time you see him, and then once he's on top of you, you're permanently CC'd and have no chance of escape.
Xphineas (NA)
: Im pretty sure it is intentional, your ult resets when you hit a moonlit target with it, if your ult gets interrupted logically you cant just dash again, since you never actually hit the moonlit target.
> [{quoted}](name=Xphineas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WYdMymjc,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-05T03:49:20.270+0000) > > Im pretty sure it is intentional, your ult resets when you hit a moonlit target with it, if your ult gets interrupted logically you cant just dash again, since you never actually hit the moonlit target. It was changed 4-5 years ago to reset on cast, not on hit. > NEW EFFECT: Casting on targets affected by Crescent Strike Moonlight will reset the cooldown even if Diana is disabled mid-dash.
: Auto fill is fine. TLDR @ bottom
You spent a roughly equal amount of time playing every role in the old system. You were in practice with all roles. The game was also significantly slower, so burden of knowledge wasn't a huge issue, and you could get away with not having intimate knowledge of every single match up for your champion. With the new system, you get one of your desired roles 80% of the time, and the other three roles 7% of the time each. You're completely out of practice with them, because you never have to play them, even if you know how. With balance changes, you no longer know all of your possible match ups. The game is faster, so one early misplay or overestimating your damage will get you killed and snowball your opponent out of control. Try only playing jungle in 1/16 games, then going into a game and trying to play it against a Diamond+ jungle main on a champion they have 500k mastery with. The game wasn't remotely the same thing that it is now in 2014 and the two can't be compared. This post is terrible lmao
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: i recently picked up udyr. He's just very good at split pushing, invading and objective control. The fact that he has downsides is fine. #BUT. newer, more modern champions don't have downsides, they just have massively overloaded kits that have everything. overall, i like him right now. But you don't even fuckin use his R. you just level q > e > w and that's it.
> [{quoted}](name=JuiceBoxP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fNNbTNAd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-17T01:05:34.912+0000) > > i recently picked up udyr. > He's just very good at split pushing, invading and objective control. > > The fact that he has downsides is fine. > #BUT. > newer, more modern champions don't have downsides, > they just have massively overloaded kits that have everything. > > overall, i like him right now. > But you don't even fuckin use his R. > you just level q > e > w and that's it. He's not very good at any of these. You're just playing at low elo, where his weaknesses don't matter, because the players don't have enough awareness or game knowledge to counter him. He's extremely bad at Diamond+. Other meta jungles out-perform him in all areas, with less weaknesses.
: The wiki says that ulting a target afflicted with Moonlight consumes the debuff _and_ resets the ult. There's no verbiage about "consumes the debuff, and then, if the ult is successful" or whatever. The detailed info says that interrupting the dash (with e.g. displacement) doesn't stop the CD from resetting. If the debuff is being consumed without resetting the ult, that definitely sounds wrong.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JwEqvwss,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-16T04:18:38.246+0000) > > The wiki says that ulting a target afflicted with Moonlight consumes the debuff _and_ resets the ult. There's no verbiage about "consumes the debuff, and then, if the ult is successful" or whatever. The detailed info says that interrupting the dash (with e.g. displacement) doesn't stop the CD from resetting. If the debuff is being consumed without resetting the ult, that definitely sounds wrong. This happened with the change to stop her triple ult bug 2-3 patches ago, but given that it hasn't been fixed in the recent patch, it seems like it's intentional.
: Why is Darius not nerfed
ITT: We pretend Darius is balanced and ignore that he's the most picked and banned top laner, along with Aatrox but with significantly higher win rate, at Diamond+. 'Just kite him' isn't valid. If you're playing a champion who has the ability to kite him, he'll run Ghost and kill you every time it's up. All possible counterplay is completely removed when he Ghosts, pushing you to a gradual loss where you have to hope that your team can either carry you or hold out the game until he falls off (which is incredibly rare). Even beyond laning, he's virtually impossible to kite if he has any form of hard engage on his team and he wasn't shut down early. With Cleaver + Deadman's Plate/Righteous Glory + Ghost, he can just flank and barrel into your team at 600+ MS, and short of permanent CC (some of which you likely used to counter the hard engage), you can't really stop him. Falling off is no longer a valid weakness, with the majority of games being 'over' at 2-3 items.
: E buff would be nice.
> [{quoted}](name=Rip Rengo 2016,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m2LM5Eoy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-14T03:09:05.805+0000) > > E buff would be nice. Buffing the movement speed would just make him more frustrating to play against for immobile/low CC teams, and wouldn't really help him at all against mobile/high CC teams, because movement speed based mobility is too easily shut down unless it's at Rammus levels. Buffing the stun wouldn't really do much, either. If he can get on top of the target, he generally wins, unless it's something like Jax or Pantheon, which are straight hard counters and it wouldn't matter anyway. It might help him be a stun bot for carries late game, but at that point, you're better off picking an actual tank with more utility.
Jesi Oni (EUNE)
: Udyr: Turn Phoenix into Ultimate
It's completely useless. If you take Phoenix, you're not good at Udyr. You lose your ability to duel in the early game, which is the only place Udyr is relevant, and all of your kill potential on mobile champion.
: >My autos That's not true tho, Vel, Thresh and Azir(not sure about this one) can aa through ww. Edit: Also Viktors second part of Q and Zoes passive
> [{quoted}](name=Jng Account,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LkkYT6Am,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2019-07-22T08:43:49.978+0000) > > That's not true tho, Vel, Thresh and Azir(not sure about this one) can aa through ww. This was fixed over a year ago
: as a melee champion who isnt yasuo, it would be really cool if i could interact with ranged champions in lane.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LkkYT6Am,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-22T07:58:27.497+0000) > > as a melee champion who isnt yasuo, it would be really cool if i could interact with ranged champions in lane. Most melee champions (especially top laners) can interact with ranged champions. If they couldn't, top lane would be dominated entirely by ranged champions, and not Darius, Riven, Kled, Aatrox, etc. There are really only an incredibly small number who can't, primarily Garen. Almost everything else has options, or some outplay potential.
: You're playing Vel'Koz, who has only two actions that Yasuo can stop with his W - your Q and your W. Q you can hit at an angle, and W has two charges so you can hit him with W after it expires. Neither of these have a longer cooldown than his W - The only exception being if you have a rank 1 W **and no CDR** and he has a rank 5 W, which should literally never happen since Yasuo maxes W last. Your autos, passive, E, and R are not stopped by his windwall. You have 26 seconds to trade with him without his W up, and can basically ignore his W anyways. Literally any rework to his W would be in his favor for this lane. You could replace his W with any ability in the game and it'd help him more against a half-decent Vel than his current W does.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LkkYT6Am,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-07-22T08:30:07.310+0000) > > You're playing Vel'Koz, who has only two actions that Yasuo can stop with his W - your Q and your W. Q you can hit at an angle, and W has two charges so you can hit him with W after it expires. Neither of these have a longer cooldown than his W - The only exception being if you have a rank 1 W **and no CDR** and he has a rank 5 W, which should literally never happen since Yasuo maxes W last. Your autos, passive, E, and R are not stopped by his windwall. > > You have 26 seconds to trade with him without his W up, and can basically ignore his W anyways. Literally any rework to his W would be in his favor for this lane. You could replace his W with any ability in the game and it'd help him more against a half-decent Vel than his current W does. Wow, all of this misinformation in one post. \> Q you can hit at an angle Angled Q's at Diamond+ usually only hit when they're from the fog. They're extremely easy to avoid in lane by just moving forward to a minion. In Yasuo's case, he can dash in any direction. \> and W has two charges so you can hit him with W after it expires. After his first item, he can clear the entire wave before Windwall expires. Which is why you can't interact with him after a point. Even if I do hit him with it, it will only eat his passive shield and nothing else. \> Neither of these have a longer cooldown than his W - The only exception being if you have a rank 1 W and no CDR and he has a rank 5 W, which should literally never happen since Yasuo maxes W last. Too bad he can clear the wave in the duration of Windwall and have it up for the next wave. \> Your autos, passive, E, and R are not stopped by his windwall. What the fuck even is this? My autos and E are both blocked by Windwall. The only thing that can hit him is R, and my passive requires things to hit him to stack. And the only thing that can hit him is my ult. You clearly have zero knowledge of game mechanics, why are you even posting?
Yenn (NA)
: It would be great if literally any jungle improvements could be made
Top lane is first time Kayle vs. Darius. Kayle is feeding. I have to concede every single top scuttle, as well as the entire top side jungle, putting me permanently and severely behind. Middle lane has no kill potential, being Rumble vs. Zed and Zed is playing safely. Bottom lane is winning and permanently pushed, but I can't dive because they have Morgana. The enemy jungle is doing nothing but power farming. I can't fight him because I'm behind, due to the loss of top side jungle and scuttles. I can't do a single thing in this game. I'm stuck AFK farming the one quarter of the jungle that I can even enter, with no way to impact the game, waiting for bottom or mid to throw and lose the game. This role is complete fucking garbage.
Yenn (NA)
: Building defensive items should not be a newb trap
This is an example of how ridiculous this is. https://i.imgur.com/tBjPCGw.jpg[] Despite the fed Rengar, I had to rush a Deathcap after Luden's so I could maintain my advantage over Irelia. If I had built Hourglass early to counter him, even with my gold advantage, her offensive itemization would have quickly overpowered me.
Yenn (NA)
: I have a support main in top lane against a million mastery Darius main
You often aren't immune to auto-fill on your first game of the day.
Yenn (NA)
: Can we please get better detection for boosted accounts in Diamond?
How can anyone look at this low Platinum player who suddenly started playing Vi and climbed straight to Diamond with almost 80% win rate, then suddenly dropped to 20% win rate with completely different champions, and not notice that it's boosted? https://i.imgur.com/PUl2oqk.jpg[] This is so obvious. There's no reason this can't be automatically detected.
rujitra (NA)
: Good insult, you could've pointed that out without insulting people. Regardless, the client failing to load in is still very likely to be a patching issue causing a crash of the client - even if the client stays open.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bMw0KfkM,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-19T20:25:55.295+0000) > > Good insult, you could've pointed that out without insulting people. > > Regardless, the client failing to load in is still very likely to be a patching issue causing a crash of the client - even if the client stays open. In reality, you have no idea what the problem is, but for some reason you're still trying to imply it's a patching issue that's affecting at least one player in 40% of games, and the ball totally isn't in Riot's court, despite the repair tool not fixing it. You're just talking out your ass at this point. Please stop. Also > Regardless, the client failing to load in is still very likely to be a patching issue causing a crash of the client - even if the client stays open. Lmao what? That's literally against the definition of a crash.
rujitra (NA)
: He said he had 4 disconnects, only one of which he said didn't ever connect to the game (which OP admits he isn't even sure). Stop blaming Riot for everything - you post countless threads blaming Riot for your own lost games, and this comment is no different.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bMw0KfkM,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-07-19T20:22:57.899+0000) > > He said he had 4 disconnects, only one of which he said didn't ever connect to the game (which OP admits he isn't even sure). > > Stop blaming Riot for everything - you post countless threads blaming Riot for your own lost games, and this comment is no different. \> I really appreciate how quickly Riot has addressed this issue, but I've had four disconnects in my past 10 ranked games, which seems a bit ridiculous and unlikely to be all rage quits, **especially when they all happened in pre-game. In one case, we weren't allowed to remake for some reason, despite the fact that Noc never seemed to have connected in the first place.** Good reading comprehension. Stop derailing this thread.
rujitra (NA)
: So, there’s more options than “ragequit” and “client fucked up”. From what I’ve seen from people who actually elect to post details, most of the disconnects that are happening are due to players whose clients did not patch properly - and instead of fixing the client by repairing it, repatching it, or reinstalling it, they simply go play another game and hope it doesn’t happen again. This happens after many patches, but there are a few things that make me suspect that it’s the reason for the larger number of issues right now, first and foremost the large number of changes to the game client (not the login client) compared to most patches. This is exactly what the system is designed to do - punish players who are queueing up for more games without resolving their client issues. Players who just scream “RITO SHIT CLIENT FIX IT” when the problem is on their end are *themselves* the problems. I’d just like to pose this - there are likely hundreds of millions of client installs in the world. Some of them are going to not patch correctly through no fault of Riot. Riot cannot control your internet connection, they cannot control your processor/RAM, and they can’t control anything else on your computer. To put it another way, **shit happens**. The unfortunate thing is that most players would rather scream at Riot that their client is the problem when they’re trying to run League at 60FPS full graphics on a machine with no graphics card, 2GB ram, and that’s 7 years old, while running 3 other high-intensity programs in the background. Obviously that’s a little extreme, but many (most?) of the problems people have with crashes are not due to anything Riot can fix. All Riot can do is ensure that League isn’t interfering with other programs, but not the other way around. And if someone’s running League above the specs they should be on a bad computer, that’s not Riot’s problem either. I guarantee you there are crashes that happen due to Riot’s client - there always have been and always will be. Riot can’t predict everything that will happen to the client, nor can they predict every machine it will run on. However, crashes that are *truly* and *solely* due to the coding of the client are extremely rare. TLDR: Players need to fix their clients and repair the patch themselves - Riot can’t baby them and shouldn’t be rewarding them for not taking the easy step to fix the issues.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bMw0KfkM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-19T18:36:28.134+0000) > > So, there’s more options than “ragequit” and “client fucked up”. > > From what I’ve seen from people who actually elect to post details, most of the disconnects that are happening are due to players whose clients did not patch properly - and instead of fixing the client by repairing it, repatching it, or reinstalling it, they simply go play another game and hope it doesn’t happen again. This happens after many patches, but there are a few things that make me suspect that it’s the reason for the larger number of issues right now, first and foremost the large number of changes to the game client (not the login client) compared to most patches. > > This is exactly what the system is designed to do - punish players who are queueing up for more games without resolving their client issues. Players who just scream “RITO SHIT CLIENT FIX IT” when the problem is on their end are *themselves* the problems. > > I’d just like to pose this - there are likely hundreds of millions of client installs in the world. Some of them are going to not patch correctly through no fault of Riot. Riot cannot control your internet connection, they cannot control your processor/RAM, and they can’t control anything else on your computer. To put it another way, **shit happens**. The unfortunate thing is that most players would rather scream at Riot that their client is the problem when they’re trying to run League at 60FPS full graphics on a machine with no graphics card, 2GB ram, and that’s 7 years old, while running 3 other high-intensity programs in the background. Obviously that’s a little extreme, but many (most?) of the problems people have with crashes are not due to anything Riot can fix. All Riot can do is ensure that League isn’t interfering with other programs, but not the other way around. And if someone’s running League above the specs they should be on a bad computer, that’s not Riot’s problem either. > > I guarantee you there are crashes that happen due to Riot’s client - there always have been and always will be. Riot can’t predict everything that will happen to the client, nor can they predict every machine it will run on. However, crashes that are *truly* and *solely* due to the coding of the client are extremely rare. > > TLDR: Players need to fix their clients and repair the patch themselves - Riot can’t baby them and shouldn’t be rewarding them for not taking the easy step to fix the issues. Nobody is talking about crashes. There's an issue that intermittently prevents you from joining the game (i.e. infinite loading), or the game becomes unresponsive at the end of loading, which makes you think it's still loading unless you try to click something. It hits me about 1/6 games. If you keep trying to re-join the game, you can sometimes get in around 2:40, just before the remake happens. Stop deflecting blame from Riot; it's 100% a bug introduced with this patch.
: I am genuinely confused why they nerfed diana so suddenly yet talon seems to evade them while foing basically the exact same thing
> [{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RbLXnQVJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-17T22:41:53.991+0000) > > I am genuinely confused why they nerfed diana so suddenly yet talon seems to evade them while foing basically the exact same thing Possibly because she was completely busted? There are multiple players who climbed to Grandmaster in 9.13 with 75-85% win rate on Diana.
: I feel like most games shouldn't be decided that early but are because people give up. Bot lane getting a double kill early does not mean it's over, but people act like it is which leads to players giving up and never being able to catch up.
> [{quoted}](name=Anxiety Warrior,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kcucXoTs,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2019-07-17T23:47:56.053+0000) > > I feel like most games shouldn't be decided that early but are because people give up. Bot lane getting a double kill early does not mean it's over, but people act like it is which leads to players giving up and never being able to catch up. This only applies to low MMR games, where there are enough mistakes to reasonably come back. This doesn't happen in higher MMR games.
: Most ranked games "end" at 10min.
They really just need to reduce income for getting ahead in the early game, so comebacks are actually possible without a massive throw by the enemy team. The advantage obtained by hitting level 6 and completing your first item earlier than your opponent is usually game breaking.
Yenn (NA)
: It would be really cool if bottom lane didn't decide 90% of Diamond+ games in the first 7 minutes
Surprise. I don't even have to do anything to win this game, because bottom lane is winning. https://i.imgur.com/0pgnYuE.jpg[]
: *lane which feeds decide games Like when you went 3/9, 2/10 on Diana or 4/7 on Vel... yeah, bot lane diff I guess. How are you even dia without having at least 6+ cs/m, NA I guess...
> [{quoted}](name=DGAGAAsharpAGD,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OHx1B1iz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-17T06:37:47.701+0000) > > *lane which feeds decide games > > Like when you went 3/9, 2/10 on Diana or 4/7 on Vel... yeah, bot lane diff I guess. > > How are you even dia without having at least 6+ cs/m, NA I guess... In the Vel'koz game, I was going 100 to 0 from Bard ult -> Ezreal ult -> Rek'sai ult. My entire team is high mobility, aside from me, so they would constantly chase and leave me alone, at which point I'd get run down by Bard/Twisted Fate with nobody to defend me. In the Diana game, my jungle suicided into Yorick at level 2 and fed him double buff, and then he and the jungle flashed on me for a double kill. He had a level 4 Sheen and I couldn't enter lane, because his Q was dumpstering 30% of my health, and the jungle kept trying to dive me while I was behind. We can also ignore the Lux game where bottom has 17 deaths and 2 kills. Or the game before that where my ADC has half the support's damage and the enemy ADC is 11-4. Or the game before that where the enemy bottom lane is 3-12. Or the Lux game before that where bottom lane is 2-13. Or this recent game where the enemy team has an 8-1-3 support Taliyah at 17 minutes. https://i.imgur.com/jObF9q0.jpg[] But no, this definitely never happens.
: AOE spells have never caused minion aggro. What you might be remembering is that in patch 8.2 they made it so targeted spells like Cass E, Kat E, Kat initial Q, Ryze W, E, etc. all cause minion aggro. If you're standing in your minion wave and Rumble Q's you in it, just back off and let the wave reach your tower. Rumble is very easy to gank.
> [{quoted}](name=RIP Tahm Kench,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EY6kK1YJ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-17T05:32:59.690+0000) > > AOE spells have never caused minion aggro. What you might be remembering is that in patch 8.2 they made it so targeted spells like Cass E, Kat E, Kat initial Q, Ryze W, E, etc. all cause minion aggro. > > If you're standing in your minion wave and Rumble Q's you in it, just back off and let the wave reach your tower. Rumble is very easy to gank. You've never played against a Rumble main. He stands behind your caster minions and Flamespitters in your direction, so he's not hitting the minions, and only briefly turns for one tick to last hit. Even if he's not doing that, he still turns away until you're in range, so he's not pushing more than he needs to.
Yenn (NA)
: Movement speed needs to be toned down across the board
Imagine telling someone who mains skill shot champions with 55-60% win rate at Diamond that skillshots aren't their strong suit
Yenn (NA)
: My lane is 3-0-0 at level 6. I'm being 100 to 0'd in a single combo. I can't play the game.
Lmao My jungle ganks Yorick and gets counter-ganked. All four of us disengage at low health. Then, suddenly, my jungle tries to flash for a risky kill. He doesn't get it and dies, giving Yorick double buff. They then both flash on me and Yorick gets a second kill. Once again, I cannot enter my lane or even farm under my turret, because my opponent has such a massive advantage. All I can do is AFK and wait to lose.
: why do you dodge every time you're autofilled? people tryna play a damn game of league here. wtf man. imagine someone dodged every time they were autofilled in your game. oh you not gonna get to play league then.
> [{quoted}](name=preternatural,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iy2IWoQl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-16T23:12:43.364+0000) > > why do you dodge every time you're autofilled? > people tryna play a damn game of league here. > wtf man. > imagine someone dodged every time they were autofilled in your game. > oh you not gonna get to play league then. I regularly have to sit in 30+ minutes of lobbies because auto-filled players dodge. After sitting in a lobby for that long, I don't want to support a random Silver ADC in normals. The quality of normals is so shit that it's not useful for anything other than practicing new champions.
: 0.o my brain hruts reading this, i assume she got ahead? shes and assassin do i need to say more?
> [{quoted}](name=TheBrothersGrymm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AReRdGQT,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-16T08:52:37.863+0000) > > 0.o my brain hruts reading this, i assume she got ahead? shes and assassin do i need to say more? She hits level 6, buys a Needlessly Large Rod, and then she comes back to lane and immediately kills you. There's virtually no counterplay to her short of having your jungle camp to make sure she can't farm pre-6. Her passive does an insane amount of damage, so even if you can survive her all-in, you still lose an extended duel with her. She doesn't need to be ahead.
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u2aEAlaa,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T01:17:53.549+0000) > > They should get some advantage, even if their entire contribution was literally last hitting a 10% health champion deep in their jungle. > They should not get so much of an advantage that I'm unable to play the game at 6 minutes. They were 3/0, they likely had levels and items on you while you were likely playing a squishy champion while they were an assassin. Like I don’t quite understand how this is something to complain about. Do people want their personal contributes to matter or not, and at the point where you dominate that hard I really don’t think that it is surprising to anyone that it is heavily slanted in your favor.
> [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u2aEAlaa,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T02:48:10.465+0000) > > They were 3/0, they likely had levels and items on you while you were likely playing a squishy champion while they were an assassin. Like I don’t quite understand how this is something to complain about. > > Do people want their personal contributes to matter or not, and at the point where you dominate that hard I really don’t think that it is surprising to anyone that it is heavily slanted in your favor. You don't understand how **not being able to enter your lane at 6 minutes because you're 100 to 0'd in seconds** is something to complain about? I'm stuck in this game where I can't lane against my opponent, through no personal fault, for 15 minutes. I have no possible options to counter this. It's just a direct waste of time. If you think it's okay that I can't step into my lane for the next 10-15 minutes of the game, without being deleted, exclusively because one player did dumb things in the first couple of minutes, then I'm not sure what to say to you.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u2aEAlaa,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T00:50:01.224+0000) > > It's not about the champion. > > It's about the fact that I can no longer enter my lane, 6 minutes into the game, despite having made no mistakes, and generally having been outplaying my opponent up until this point. What if your team had inted her 12 kills instead of 3? Would that feel different? Cause really you can make no mistakes and still have dumb shit happen to fuck up the game, just cause you played well doesn't mean you win 100% right
> [{quoted}](name=PimpStickNasus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u2aEAlaa,comment-id=00030000000000000002,timestamp=2019-07-16T01:35:23.446+0000) > > What if your team had inted her 12 kills instead of 3? Would that feel different? Cause really you can make no mistakes and still have dumb shit happen to fuck up the game, just cause you played well doesn't mean you win 100% right There's no reasonable scenario where someone has 12 kills at 6 minutes. I'm not sure why you even posted this.
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u2aEAlaa,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T00:50:01.224+0000) > > It's not about the champion. > > It's about the fact that I can no longer enter my lane, 6 minutes into the game, despite having made no mistakes, and generally having been outplaying my opponent up until this point. So people who get fed shouldn’t be able to use the advantage they got?
> [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u2aEAlaa,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T01:04:46.676+0000) > > So people who get fed shouldn’t be able to use the advantage they got? They should get some advantage, even if their entire contribution was literally last hitting a 10% health champion deep in their jungle. They should not get so much of an advantage that I'm unable to play the game at 6 minutes.
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u2aEAlaa,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-07-16T00:43:33.877+0000) > > I have 0 kills. She has 3 kills from collapsing on my hyper aggressive jungler. Oh so the fed champion was able to snowball their advantage, I see, what exactly is the problem with that, what champion couldn’t do that?
> [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u2aEAlaa,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-07-16T00:45:01.133+0000) > > Oh so the fed champion was able to snowball their advantage, I see, what exactly is the problem with that, what champion couldn’t do that? It's not about the champion. It's about the fact that I can no longer enter my lane, 6 minutes into the game, despite having made no mistakes, and generally having been outplaying my opponent up until this point.
Yenn (NA)
: How about attempting to fix jungle by reducing the impact of the early game?
I can't even play this role in normals anymore. If I play a meta pick, I stomp the enemy jungle because it's often a Gold player or someone learning the role. This isn't fun for me and it isn't fun for them. If I play an off-meta pick, I just get stomped because there's no possible way for me to fight the Gold player early on when they're using a meta jungle, regardless of the difference in skill and knowledge. There's nothing okay about this.
Jamaree (NA)
: I read OP wrong, my bad
> [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u2aEAlaa,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-16T00:21:07.770+0000) > > So wait, you had three kills on her forcing her to roam because she couldn’t deal with you, wait what exactly is the argument here? > > Didn’t you have three kills and make it so that she couldn’t do anything? I have 0 kills. She has 3 kills from collapsing on my hyper aggressive jungler.
: Akali has always been a disgusting champion She did this pre rework, and she does it after the rework The entire champ needs to be thrown out, she'll never be balanced
> [{quoted}](name=Jimmy Rustles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u2aEAlaa,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-16T00:10:00.239+0000) > > Akali has always been a disgusting champion > > She did this pre rework, and she does it after the rework > > The entire champ needs to be thrown out, she'll never be balanced This isn't an Akali problem, the same applies to virtually any mid champion getting that many kills early. The root of the issue is that one player should not be able to completely sabotage a lane like this, that early into the game.
Kazekiba (NA)
: Assassins snowball. Thats her job. {{sticker:sg-ahri-3}}
> [{quoted}](name=Kazekiba,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u2aEAlaa,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-16T00:08:36.635+0000) > > Assassins snowball. Thats her job. > > {{sticker:sg-ahri-3}} Under no circumstance should my lane become an unplayable clusterfuck by 6 minutes without me making mistakes, period.
Yenn (NA)
: Can Qiyana lose some damage in exchange for more reliability?
\> Her out of combat 5% movement speed boost is target access! 15 movement speed is not target access. \> She can jump over thin walls! That's not target access. These walls are only located in the jungle. \> Her W is a dash! It locks her out of her assassination combo. She gets access to her target and then can't kill it. \> Ghostblade active! If you want to AFK farm to Ghostblade before doing literally anything to help your team, you may as well just play another assassin. This is why we need rank restricted forums. It's impossible to have actual discussion on champion balance when threads are inevitably inundated with unskilled players who don't understand the game or mechanics. I shouldn't have to explain how low the value of 15 out of combat movement speed near terrain is. Compare this to Taliyah, who gets 60+ movement speed.
Yenn (NA)
: It would be great if literally any jungle improvements could be made
I'm 1-0-1 at level 5. The enemy jungle is 4-1-2 at level 6. All of his kills are from my team mates' botched dives or over extending with no vision. He's so far ahead that I have no way to fight him, and he's constantly invading my jungle. My mid lane is feeding it's ass off and can't help at all. Bottom lane and top lane are both immobile and can't respond in time. **I can't play the fucking game, despite being 1-0-1**
: what are you talking about, she has SO MUCH target access it's actually a fucking joke to me. and her EQ combo actually needs to be removed, still dunno why she needs that.
> [{quoted}](name=preternatural,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bM2woNwE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-15T02:07:00.466+0000) > > what are you talking about, she has SO MUCH target access it's actually a fucking joke to me. > and her EQ combo actually needs to be removed, still dunno why she needs that. Her only target access is a 650 range targeted dash. She can't use W or Brush Q to gain range, because it prevents her double Q combo, which is where all of her damage comes from. Even if she could, it only adds about 150 range. Zed's W is 650 range and R is 625, so he can potentially get on a target from 1275 range. Talon's Q is 575 range and he has stealth, a massive movement speed boost, and the ability to jump walls. Diana's Q + R is 825 range. Katarina's E is 775 range and resets. You're clearly playing some other game that isn't League.
: meanwhile neeko is permapicked in pro play for top lane.
> [{quoted}](name=preternatural,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3wJzmQA1,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-15T01:25:31.823+0000) > > meanwhile neeko is permapicked in pro play for top lane. Because pro play values safety and team fighting, while traditional melee top laners are volatile picks intended to be played by hyper-aggressive monkeys.
: She has the tools she needs. Water -> Q -> E -> Rock -> Q -> Bail. That said, I play her more like her own role than I do an assassin. Something of a harassing skirmisher role.
> [{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bM2woNwE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-15T01:39:09.177+0000) > > She has the tools she needs. Water -> Q -> E -> Rock -> Q -> Bail. That said, I play her more like her own role than I do an assassin. Something of a harassing skirmisher role. Why would any ranged champion, under any circumstance, ever get in range of Qiyana's Q while she's holding water? How do you propose to 'bail' without mobility and all of your abilities on cooldown? Aside from that, if you *could* actually do this (which you can't outside of shit elo), it would kill the opponent, so it's a non-issue. This is some weird shit that would only work in Bronze.
: well you still get CC'ed and its like most auto attacks. of course its going to follow you. the same can happen if you flash from any melee auto attack. it will follow you. the reason rengars follows more often is because he doesnt have to do an AA animation persay so it goes threw more. if you had zhonyas or shielded faster you survives those alot and id know. unless you sit next to a bush. one thing i cannot stress enough though is that if rengar is FED with max bonetooth stacks and your entire team is behind. he is going to one shot you. any fed assassin will do this. so dont cry op when 10/2 rengar one shots the squishy ADC.
> [{quoted}](name=MaskedMadness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8eXlPU5,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-07-14T19:58:58.400+0000) > > well you still get CC'ed and its like most auto attacks. of course its going to follow you. the same can happen if you flash from any melee auto attack. it will follow you. the reason rengars follows more often is because he doesnt have to do an AA animation persay so it goes threw more. if you had zhonyas or shielded faster you survives those alot and id know. unless you sit next to a bush. > > one thing i cannot stress enough though is that if rengar is FED with max bonetooth stacks and your entire team is behind. he is going to one shot you. any fed assassin will do this. so dont cry op when 10/2 rengar one shots the squishy ADC. Every other assassins offers counterplay in the form of vision and staying near your team mates. Rengar does not. Even if you know he's ulting and are prepared for it, you can't do anything to stop him from instantly killing someone short of them having Zhonya. If they aren't playing an AP champion, that isn't even a possibility, so you just have to accept that someone is going to get one shot with zero counterplay and prepare to kill Rengar as soon as he lands. There's literally no viable defense for a champion being able to mash it's keyboard and delete someone from the game, with no regards for positioning.
: You can't interrupt Hecarim. No knockback, stun, cc or anything will stop his E from knocking you back (and damaging, although there are exceptions like Pantheons Passive that block this part).
> [{quoted}](name=SuicidePlank,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tdybXdFA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-13T12:02:32.232+0000) > > You can't interrupt Hecarim. > No knockback, stun, cc or anything will stop his E from knocking you back (and damaging, although there are exceptions like Pantheons Passive that block this part). The issue here being that it doesn't knock you back, it makes you follow Hecarim. If Alistar knocks him off of you before he connects, you don't get knocked back with him.
Xavanic (NA)
: and this is why i don't care to climb
> [{quoted}](name=Xavanic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1l0uqxR5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-13T03:44:59.520+0000) > > and this is why i don't care to climb The queue is only 5 minutes. The problem is that you have to sit through 6 dodged lobbies because everyone who gets auto-filled dodges at the last second.
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Yenn

Level 158 (NA)
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