Yenn (NA)
: Soft inting and alternate accounts seriously need to be addressed
I just got this player on my team **again**. This is fucking ridiculous. https://i.imgur.com/yAdY5fm.jpg[] https://i.imgur.com/AmS10UR.jpg[]
iiGazeii (NA)
: There's an option to toggle on "target champions only". I recommend rebinding it to a key that's easy to reach, but one you won't press accidentally, like caps lock or an extra button on your mouse. It makes it much easier to chase, attack, and target champions without needing to worry about hitting a minion, tower, or ward instead. Just get in the habit of toggling it on when you're committing to fighting, and it saves you a world of trouble.
> [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BiMzhRoX,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-15T06:30:31.461+0000) > > There's an option to toggle on "target champions only". I recommend rebinding it to a key that's easy to reach, but one you won't press accidentally, like caps lock or an extra button on your mouse. It makes it much easier to chase, attack, and target champions without needing to worry about hitting a minion, tower, or ward instead. Just get in the habit of toggling it on when you're committing to fighting, and it saves you a world of trouble. It doesn't work with attack move.
: Don't think it's that simple.
> [{quoted}](name=Wínters Dawn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3ljRJKVA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-15T03:57:35.309+0000) > > Don't think it's that simple. It is that simple
Done25 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrwBWWIV,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-15T02:08:49.673+0000) > > Riot just before the preseason - "We hear you don't like how snowbally the game's become recently, so over the preseason we're going to attempt to reduce snowballing by buffing towers early game!" > > *Only introduces turret plating which means enemies can now get a huge gold lead even if you attempt to play safe!* Turret plating significantly reduces the rate at which a 5 man can just burn the tower down. Yes it's money, but it's money they would have gotten by just taking your tower and leaving you defenseless anyways.
> [{quoted}](name=Done25,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrwBWWIV,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-15T02:14:16.265+0000) > > Turret plating significantly reduces the rate at which a 5 man can just burn the tower down. Yes it's money, but it's money they would have gotten by just taking your tower and leaving you defenseless anyways. Wait, what? Each outer turret is now worth up to 1100-1250 gold, where as before, a single turret was only worth 300/600 gold. It's not remotely the same.
: pyke is an assassin carry though
> [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZKxnNJWw,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-15T01:56:02.218+0000) > > pyke is an assassin carry though Pyke isn't a carry. He falls off hard in the mid to late game.
: what if the support is pyke?
> [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZKxnNJWw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-15T01:53:05.517+0000) > > what if the support is pyke? The support was Pyke, but most of the kills weren't with his ult, or another champion was involved and they received his ult gold instead of me. And it still doesn't share the bounty gold, either way.
: > [{quoted}](name=kingDeDeDarius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rsJO06NU,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-14T17:10:05.457+0000) > > What part of 3-7-2 did you miss? Quin was fed, vayne was far behind. Even if quin was playing g with the intelligence of a monkey, she should have won a 1v1. Stop trying to defend broke bs like this current iteration of vayne. We all know she's busted My highest mastery is riven. Quinn does win 1v1 if she’s fed, I can’t survive Quinn combos as riven. I’ve fucked up games. As a vayne main, there’s not much you can do if you get jumped. You take the initial hit and R+Q to wait out the blind, but you’re already at half HP. One crit and you’re dead. Stop spouting irrational non sense over things you have no clue about. Don’t even make be bring rank into this. {{champion:92}}
> [{quoted}](name=Prestige Vayne,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rsJO06NU,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-14T22:43:18.264+0000) > > My highest mastery is riven. > > Quinn does win 1v1 if she’s fed, I can’t survive Quinn combos as riven. I’ve fucked up games. As a vayne main, there’s not much you can do if you get jumped. You take the initial hit and R+Q to wait out the blind, but you’re already at half HP. One crit and you’re dead. > > Stop spouting irrational non sense over things you have no clue about. > > Don’t even make be bring rank into this. > > {{champion:92}} You don't know this match up at all. You don't take the initial hit, and Vayne wins because she prevents me from doing a full combo, on top of also drawing my partial combo out over a long period with Tumble, giving her plenty of opportunity to cover my damage with life steal. Yes, if the Vayne is garbage and doesn't interrupt my combo, I will kill her quickly with an AA + E + AA + Q + multiple AAs, but that doesn't realistically ever happen unless it's auto-filled. Quinn loses a duel if her combo doesn't get a kill. The tl;dr of why Quinn doesn't win is that I need four Harrier procs to kill her (or really any ADC): one from ult dropping, one from E, one from Q, and one passively after Q. She can deny both my first and last one with Tumble, as well as kite me. When I auto attack out of my ult, there's a brief delay caused by my ult dropping. If she tumbles during the animation, she gets marked by it, but I don't get the auto off. She can then come out of Tumble beyond my attack range and start kiting me backwards, because she has a longer attack range and higher movement speed than I do (and probably BotRK active) unless I have Harrier procced, which I don't right now. I have to Vault her, which overwrites and wastes my mark from dropping ult. We can trade two hits before she Tumbles again, and this time, she usually breaks stealth right on top of me. I need to blind her to get my second Harrier proc, and she can continue to attack me while blinded. I've already lost at this point, because Vayne has significantly higher sustained damage, blind isn't helping me avoid any of it, and my burst window is over. If she's really behind and I can still potentially kill her with only three marks, her Tumble comes off cooldown at the same time as the third mark goes up, and she can just wait it out and then auto + Condemn me out of range when the stealth runs out, at which point I'll be out of range and no longer have the movement speed from Harrier, and she can stay at the edge of my range and run me down once the mark drops off. She also gets a slight advantage every time she comes out of tumble, because I have to guess at where she's going to come out of stealth at, and then factor in reaction time and movement time to get in range. If there are no other targets around, I can attack move to remove the delay for reaction time, but then she can drop her ward on me as she's coming out of stealth and my attack will go to the ward, and I'll lose more time on the wasted auto than I would reacting.
: Why were you trying to solo a Nasus anyway? What's your intention with this fight? Were you expecting a full 100% win without building {{item:3036}} {{item:3033}} or something?
> [{quoted}](name=BeatzBoyFTW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1G75ewME,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-14T10:01:31.745+0000) > > Why were you trying to solo a Nasus anyway? What's your intention with this fight? Were you expecting a full 100% win without building {{item:3036}} {{item:3033}} or something? I thought my team was going to turn on him, because the Hecarim they were chasing was out of their range and they weren't going to/didn't catch him. Also, his only armor item is Cloth Armor, and I have over 1000g and a completed item over him. Dying in 3 seconds to a champion with less gold right clicking me is pretty dumb. > [{quoted}](name=Dorans Pants,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1G75ewME,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-14T10:13:04.802+0000) > > And he still had to flash /s > {{sticker:sg-ezreal}} He didn't actually have to Flash, he could have just Withered and spent 4 seconds killing me instead of 3.
: I mean - I don't get it. If this strategy works so well in the early game, but then he starts feeding the rest of the game, why aren't players abusing the same early game strategy without shitting the bed for the rest of the game? Can you direct-message me the player's name so I can look up some replays for myself?
> [{quoted}](name=ValyrianBlade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kzMEdgUo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-13T13:09:39.393+0000) > > I mean - I don't get it. If this strategy works so well in the early game, but then he starts feeding the rest of the game, why aren't players abusing the same early game strategy without shitting the bed for the rest of the game? > > Can you direct-message me the player's name so I can look up some replays for myself? There are very few Alistar mains, it doesn't work if the enemy team plays safely, and you're completely fucked if one of your solo lanes doesn't get enough of an advantage from it to hard carry, because your ADC is 1v2 and won't be relevant in the late game. It's not a good or reliable strategy. > [{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kzMEdgUo,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-13T14:05:10.122+0000) > > if it looks stupid, but it works, then its not stupid. > > but seriously its probably akin to int sion/ solo singed. it involves saying fk you to a team member or two, but still works. so they must be doing SOMETHING right. It only works because the early game snowballs out of control so easily, like I said in a post. It displays a major issue with the current state of balance. The same strategy last season got this player demoted out of Diamond V multiple times, which is extremely hard to do without intentionally losing games, and eventually banned. It's not the same as Sion/Singed, they actually accomplish things like map pressure through out the game. After the early game, he just dies, over and over, without accomplishing anything. Imagine the entire team starts heading down mid lane, from the fountain, at the same time. The entire team is at the river, while Alistar has already started diving the inhibitor turret, because he has so much movement speed that the rest of the team can't keep up. By the time they get to the enemy base, Alistar is already dead. > [{quoted}](name=Dönald J Trump,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kzMEdgUo,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-13T16:11:56.700+0000) > > I don't really consider this feeding. Because he clearly has so many assists, he's fighting with the team when he dies. Feeding would be 0/18/0, not 3/18/26. It's a lot of deaths, but it's not feeding. Feeding is intentionally dying to help the enemy team. He's dying to help his own team. Okay, but nobody cares what you do or don't consider it. The only thing that matters is that virtually everyone who has played with this player, along with Riot, consider it feeding. If you actually read the post, you would see that he actually is intentionally dying later in the game, just not in the early game.
RallerenP (EUW)
: So looking through your match history, if found the 'infamous' player. My only question is: How do you define inting, deterministically. (Meaning, you can't just say: "Inting is intentionally losing"). What steps would one have to take, to verify that a player is inting? You could look at the score? But he isn't doing paticularly horrible KDA-wise. Sure he has a lot of deaths, but he also has alot of assists and kills. The damage? He consistently does an expected amount of damage for a support Alistar. Doing role related things? He also often places a shit ton of vision. The build? Nothing is inherently wrong with his build. You shouldn't get punished for not building the exact same items anyone else does. And infact, over the last 110 games, he had a positive winrate? So why do you say he's inting? Unless I have the totally wrong player (I'm talking about the 'Ohmwrecker Alistar'), there isn't any conclusive proof that he is actually trying to lose, right? And if it's not possible to determine whether or not someone is inting, then how is *Riot* supposed to do so? Soft inting is per definition not something you can detect. It's inting, that isn't detectable. So how do you expect 'soft inting' to be adressed in any way?
> [{quoted}](name=RallerenP,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TEmKw6bZ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-13T11:21:50.297+0000) > > So looking through your match history, if found the 'infamous' player. > > My only question is: How do you define inting, deterministically. (Meaning, you can't just say: "Inting is intentionally losing"). What steps would one have to take, to verify that a player is inting? > > You could look at the score? But he isn't doing paticularly horrible KDA-wise. Sure he has a lot of deaths, but he also has alot of assists and kills. > > The damage? He consistently does an expected amount of damage for a support Alistar. > > Doing role related things? He also often places a shit ton of vision. > > The build? Nothing is inherently wrong with his build. You shouldn't get punished for not building the exact same items anyone else does. > > And infact, over the last 110 games, he had a positive winrate? > > So why do you say he's inting? Unless I have the totally wrong player (I'm talking about the 'Ohmwrecker Alistar'), there isn't any conclusive proof that he is actually trying to lose, right? > > And if it's not possible to determine whether or not someone is inting, then how is *Riot* supposed to do so? > > Soft inting is per definition not something you can detect. It's inting, that isn't detectable. So how do you expect 'soft inting' to be adressed in any way? In this case, the combination of the consistent pattern of incredibly high deaths and the volume of reports should be able to algorithmic-ally identify that something is wrong. If an actual human is looking at it, his chat logs don't leave any question about whether or not he's inting; he literally says in chat that he's doing it. I made another post about this, but it starts off as just hyper aggressive play, which works very well for Alistar in the early game, but transitions into actual bonafide intentional feeding as the game progresses. He's doing the same thing at all stages of the game, but his early game strength makes it work in the early game, while it has zero chance of success in the late game. He 'locks on' to any champion that gets near him, and chases it down until one of them dies. After the early game, the only possible outcome is Alistar dying. For example, in one game, we watched him chase a full health Malzahar from his outer turret all the way to his inhibitor around 21 minutes, while the entire team was at the base. After about 25 minutes, he said he was bored with the game, and started running directly into the enemy AD carry every time he respawned. He was basically permanently dead. The win rate is a side effect of this season's early game having insane snowball potential. In the season he was banned for it, it didn't work so well in the early game, and he actually demoted out of Diamond V multiple times, which is extremely hard to do.
Ozzburne (NA)
: They are? They announced it before you posted? You are all idiots????
> [{quoted}](name=Ozzburne,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VznjJZtK,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-13T10:55:52.921+0000) > > They are? They announced it before you posted? You are all idiots???? Yeah, no, they're not hotfixing it. We're forced to deal with this monstrosity as-is until the next patch.
: If he has multiple permabanned accounts, that means Riot just hasn't gotten to the rest yet. Unless he ints on all those accounts on a popular stream linking them together, as Tyler1 did to earn himself an ID ban, Riot has to individually evaluate and escalate each instance.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TEmKw6bZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-13T10:28:58.088+0000) > > If he has multiple permabanned accounts, that means Riot just hasn't gotten to the rest yet. Unless he ints on all those accounts on a popular stream linking them together, as Tyler1 did to earn himself an ID ban, Riot has to individually evaluate and escalate each instance. It took well over 1000 games before Riot banned his main account, last season. It's very likely that because of the way he does it, it's only the insane volume of reports that got him banned. The issue here is more that it's much harder than it should be to get him banned, even though he's clearly evading a ban and intentionally feeding, even going so far as to say it in chat.
: not sure if its the same guy but i had an alistar in november that built ga and stood in bot lane behind the turret avoiding doing anything and watched us lose. The account had a bunch of match history fileld with it as well, it's really mindblowing that the system doesn't see that an account has been spam reported for inting multiple games in a row and flag it and ban it immediately. Or at least send it to one of the player support people to review and manually ban it or something.
> [{quoted}](name=Not HeIping You,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TEmKw6bZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-13T10:02:58.168+0000) > > not sure if its the same guy but i had an alistar in november that built ga and stood in bot lane behind the turret avoiding doing anything and watched us lose. The account had a bunch of match history fileld with it as well, it's really mindblowing that the system doesn't see that an account has been spam reported for inting multiple games in a row and flag it and ban it immediately. Or at least send it to one of the player support people to review and manually ban it or something. No, he rushes all movement speed items (Boots of Mobility, Deadman's Plate, Ohmwrecker, etc.) and it's something that looks like a viable build, but he plays hyper aggressively and goes all in on any champion that gets near him 24/7, while spamming chat with all caps, making it clear that he's not taking the game seriously. He manages to win some games, because top and middle don't expect to be ganked by an Alistar 24/7, and sometimes someone snowballs out of control, but as the game progresses, it turns into actual intentional feeding and he starts complaining about 'being bored' and spamming surrender if it goes past 25 minutes. He has 12-20 deaths in every single game. In my last game, he wasn't happy because we were playing too passively, so he began repeatedly running directly down mid lane for whatever champion was defending the outter turret, often chasing them to the inhibitor before dying. Basically, it's something that's not obviously inting, even though he has double digit deaths in every game. But Riot clearly has identified this behavior as inting, as he has multiple banned accounts.
: Nope. Not going back to 35 minute queues.
> [{quoted}](name=Snake of Avarice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3toOzPcb,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-13T09:41:25.802+0000) > > Nope. Not going back to 35 minute queues. You've never experienced 35 minute queues and we've never had this system without auto-fill, so we have no idea how long queues would be without it. Why are you even posting in this thread? Also, at Platinum III, it currently takes me on average 20+ minutes to get into a game, because every lobby is dodged at the last moment by someone who is auto-filled. My last game was 23 minutes ago and I still haven't gotten into another game.
: i'd keep the shield but not let it be as strong as it is. As it is, at all stages of the game it's good. It shouldn't be able to completely deny poke. Maybe 2/3 the shield value would be enough. He is a melee squishy.
> [{quoted}](name=RyzenLord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VznjJZtK,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-13T08:44:55.558+0000) > > i'd keep the shield but not let it be as strong as it is. As it is, at all stages of the game it's good. It shouldn't be able to completely deny poke. Maybe 2/3 the shield value would be enough. He is a melee squishy. That doesn't accomplish much, most mid lane champions can't interact with Yasuo enough to even pop the shield.
Yenn (NA)
: Kill gold really needs to be reworked to account for how hard the game snowballs right now
I just had a game where I was 6-1-5 as ADC. We dominated bottom lane. Except our top lane was feeding horribly. The 10-2-1 Olaf literally just ulted with Ghostblade and ran me down, and I couldn't do anything about it. He just automatically won the game because our top was feeding so hard. Zero fucking reward for playing well. The enemy team had much more gold concentrated into one champion, despite the game being 'even,' and automatically won by brute force. This is exactly why this bullshit needs to be changed.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2QVWEngu,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-12T08:58:05.319+0000) > > I've had no problem getting to Diamond within 50 games at the start of every past season, the timing shouldn't matter. > > Income isn't too high as long as everyone's income is relatively the same, but i.e. turret plating gives the winning team up to 2400 free gold for being ahead early, on top of bounties on the one or two players who aren't feeding on the losing team. > > The current meta probably gives too much incentive to play like a hyper aggressive monkey, because if you get slightly ahead with this play style, you'll easily snowball out of control with little counterplay. This was also a problem last season, but it wasn't as bad as it is now, because most of the agency was in bottom lane and everyone understood that and could play around it. This season, the lanes are basically islands. How would you reduce gold leads? Do you think it would be more effective to reduce income in general (tower plating, assist gold, whatever), or to create/increase "comeback" gold?
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2QVWEngu,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T09:17:51.191+0000) > > How would you reduce gold leads? Do you think it would be more effective to reduce income in general (tower plating, assist gold, whatever), or to create/increase "comeback" gold? Any sort of comeback gold isn't useful, because the winning team is getting such a huge advantage that there's no way for the team that's behind to acquire or utilize it. Imo the best change would be to better distribute kill gold differently, so a single champion who happened to get too many killing blows in an otherwise relatively even game doesn't snowball out of control, and possibly start to limit kill gold once a champion is too far ahead, to shift their focus to objectives and mitigate how badly a feeding player can throw the game.
mack9112 (NA)
: First off you have been diamond once with all previous seasons you being in was plat. If you go back and look at your own game history you have plenty of games that you perform rather poorly. It is my opinion that people who always blame others will never get anywhere in life or this game. Plenty of people can climb and do well why can't you ? The meta shifts and with it different strengths become important.
> [{quoted}](name=mack9112,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2QVWEngu,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-12T10:15:23.110+0000) > > First off you have been diamond once with all previous seasons you being in was plat. > > If you go back and look at your own game history you have plenty of games that you perform rather poorly. > > It is my opinion that people who always blame others will never get anywhere in life or this game. Plenty of people can climb and do well why can't you ? The meta shifts and with it different strengths become important. Yeah, uh, no, I just happen to normally not be playing at the end of the season and decay out of Diamond. It's well documented, like these old threads: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/ygQdtcZE-welcome-to-diamond-5-yenn-was-right http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4083917 http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4040792 You can't identify 'playing poorly' without watching a game. After the enemy is fed to a certain point, the only way I can avoid dying (especially if I'm the only one not feeding) is by sitting at the fountain. Get out of here.
: Do you believe any of this is due to it being pretty early in the ranked season? Do you think gold income in general is too high? Do you think people feed and leave on purpose, or do you think they're initially trying to do well and only leaving because they don't see any way to salvage a win after their unintentional deaths?
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2QVWEngu,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-12T08:42:21.136+0000) > > Do you believe any of this is due to it being pretty early in the ranked season? > > Do you think gold income in general is too high? > > Do you think people feed and leave on purpose, or do you think they're initially trying to do well and only leaving because they don't see any way to salvage a win after their unintentional deaths? I've had no problem getting to Diamond within 50 games at the start of every past season, the timing shouldn't matter. Income isn't too high as long as everyone's income is relatively the same, but i.e. turret plating gives the winning team up to 2400 free gold for being ahead early, on top of bounties on the one or two players who aren't feeding on the losing team. The current meta probably gives too much incentive to play like a hyper aggressive monkey, because if you get slightly ahead with this play style, you'll easily snowball out of control with little counterplay. This was also a problem last season, but it wasn't as bad as it is now, because most of the agency was in bottom lane and everyone understood that and could play around it. This season, the lanes are basically islands.
Yenn (NA)
: This season is by far the worst yet. Having any impact on games is impossible.
Also, positional ranked is fucking horrible. Probably 1/5 games are won or lost because someone is soft inting/borderline trolling on their off roles. i.e. I just had a game where auto-filled top took Sylas (even though they have zero mastery) from our jungle, who decided to troll us in response. The top gives zero fucks, because they're not losing any real LP on their main role.
: ...with a grand total of **333** picks. That's not a trend, that's a statistical outlier. The only things even close to it are Mortal Reminder (which Vayne doesn't need any real additional Tank busting, and is bought mainly to counter heals), Frozen Mallet (something that would only be seen on like a Vayne top, and even then is picked more then SoS), and the goddamn Ornn Masterwork item (which is barely below SoS picks)
> [{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fMt0fAeY,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T06:43:18.814+0000) > > ...with a grand total of **333** picks. > > That's not a trend, that's a statistical outlier. > > The only things even close to it are Mortal Reminder (which Vayne doesn't need any real additional Tank busting, and is bought mainly to counter heals), Frozen Mallet (something that would only be seen on like a Vayne top, and even then is picked more then SoS), and the goddamn Ornn Masterwork item (which is barely below SoS picks) It has a significantly higher win rate than other low pick items that are built later (signifying that Vayne has reached late game, which should naturally have even higher win rate). People just haven't caught on to how absurdly broken being able to stealth every two autos is. There is literally nothing not amazing about being able to be almost permanently in stealth.
: What Vayne is building Spear of Shojin? Like, the only thing she really gains anything serious from is the 60 AD, and even then there are better AD items (and better defensive items then the 250 HP SoS gives) She doesn't want the passive, she doesn't want the CDR. All in all a kinda worthless item on her.
> [{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fMt0fAeY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-12T06:36:59.604+0000) > > What Vayne is building Spear of Shojin? Ones who like winning https://i.imgur.com/AyPUslP.jpg[]
Yenn (NA)
: Kill gold really needs to be reworked to account for how hard the game snowballs right now
To display the problem, last game I was bottom lane, and while we won the lane with me being up 2-0-1 as Jhin and the enemy Vayne being down over 50 CS, the enemy team's Zed was 12-2-3. I'm basically being one shot because he has such an insane number advantage. Even collecting the 1000g bounty on him, he still instantly deletes me. There was no reward for playing well and winning lane, because some negligent monkeys have been AFK feeding for the past 15 minutes.
Hotarµ (NA)
: He did just fine before Stormrazor was even released, in fact he was one of the top ADCs in the game. He's been able to contest with them before, why can't he do it now considering everyone is (almost) back to where they were before?
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WoPb6J4j,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:02:36.929+0000) > > He did just fine before Stormrazor was even released, in fact he was one of the top ADCs in the game. He's been able to contest with them before, why can't he do it now considering everyone is (almost) back to where they were before? Everything isn't 'back to where they were before,' many ADCs received buffs to compensate for how weak they were when crit itemization was weakened, and they weren't taken away when it was reverted, while ADCs who had strong synergy with Stormrazor were nerfed and not compensated. Also, Jhin wasn't a very strong pick until Stormrazor happened. If a Twitch can dish out 2000 damage with two autos in 1 second, while Jhin can deal out 2500 with two autos in 1.3 seconds, Twitch is the winner because Jhin is dead before he gets the second auto off.
: > Spoiler: Just because you have kills doesn't mean you outplayed your opponent. In top lane, for example, counterpicks are significantly more important than skill. But you still got killed. That is a misplay by you which should be rewarded for the enemy. > There are also any number of things that can get you an advantage over your opponent that makes you auto-win the lane; for example, a fight in the river where your team got two kills and the enemy team got three kills. Your team technically lost, but you got both killing blows, and the enemy only got two assists. You're now able to stomp your lane opponent with the huge advantage the kills gave you, even though you technically lost the fight. That means the rest of you team has an advantage so just play safe and ask for assistance to get the juicy 450 gold, 1.5 kills worth. There is give and take with every move you make in the game. > Assuming that having kills means you outplayed someone and should be rewarded by being able to one shot anyone who comes near you is completely wrong. Never said that and it isn't true unless you get extremely fed. > The player issue can't be fixed as long as overly aggressive play is rewarded as heavily as it is when you're ahead. Overly aggressive play is actually in the worst place right now because bounties are so potent. The player issue needs to be fixed with an extremely hands on team dealt with the difficult hand to apply punishment for soft inting and giving up.
> [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T04:10:27.552+0000) > > But you still got killed. That is a misplay by you which should be rewarded for the enemy. A fight that went 2-3 should **not** be rewarded by giving one player on the side with two kills an overbearing advantage that lets them overpower their lane through sheer numbers. Both sides should be rewarded, but the reward being consolidated into one champion vs. spread across the champions involved pushes the one champion over the edge and starts the snowball. You're completely ignoring the reality of power spikes. > [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T04:10:27.552+0000) > > Overly aggressive play is actually in the worst place right now because bounties are so potent. The player issue needs to be fixed with an extremely hands on team dealt with the difficult hand to apply punishment for soft inting and giving up. I'm not sure why you keep posting this. This is not something Riot is going to do, period, so other solutions are needed. The prior seasons' changes have intentionally pushed the game in this direction of hyper aggressive plays. Riot is never going to start banning the players who either go 13-3 or 3-13, with no scores in between. Stop repeating yourself.
: > That's usually not an option. The snowball hits critical mass when one side has completed their first item; at that point, they become unstoppable, because the completed item is a massive powerspike over someone who only has half of their item's components. This is all about the player not realizing they have to play super safe until they also get their first item. Yes it is hard and yes you will lose CS, but it is better than soft inting. > You can try to gank them, but unless you're equally fed, they're probably going to win or escape with summoners. The artificially prolonged laning phase makes it extremely hard to do anything before it's too late. So either the gank was misplayed or you are both extremely far behind. While 1 or 2 kills behind a 1v2 is super easy unless huge misplays on the duos behalf. > You can't fix the players, so the game needs to be fixed. It is a player issue not a game issue. You can't just make kills useless without making the players that go for kills feel mistreated and feel as if the playstyle of mechanically outplaying your laner is under rewarded.
> [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=00010000000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:48:47.260+0000) > > This is all about the player not realizing they have to play super safe until they also get their first item. Yes it is hard and yes you will lose CS, but it is better than soft inting. > > So either the gank was misplayed or you are both extremely far behind. While 1 or 2 kills behind a 1v2 is super easy unless huge misplays on the duos behalf. > > It is a player issue not a game issue. You can't just make kills useless without making the players that go for kills feel mistreated and feel as if the playstyle of mechanically outplaying your laner is under rewarded. Spoiler: Just because you have kills doesn't mean you outplayed your opponent. In top lane, for example, counterpicks are significantly more important than skill. There are also any number of things that can get you an advantage over your opponent that makes you auto-win the lane; for example, a fight in the river where your team got two kills and the enemy team got three kills. Your team technically lost, but you got both killing blows, and the enemy only got two assists. You're now able to stomp your lane opponent with the huge advantage the kills gave you, even though you technically lost the fight. Assuming that having kills means you outplayed someone and should be rewarded by being able to one shot anyone who comes near you is completely wrong. The player issue can't be fixed as long as overly aggressive play is rewarded as heavily as it is when you're ahead.
: > [{quoted}](name=heroikc,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:36:28.900+0000) > > Yeah, but the problem is that snowball is TOO prevalent in games and the actual means of recovery is minimal at best. People are generally going to get sick either getting stomped or not getting carried by snowballers. This has been highlighted and dealt with years ago, for good reason. yeah and instead what they want is FREE pass to the late game. How about people actually learn to adapt? how about people actually learn to not feed uncontrollably? how about people learn that always fighting isn't the answer? how about people realize that going behind a couple of CS is better than giving away 5 kills to the enemy? how about people realize that just because one person in the enemy team is ahead that doesn't mean that they lost? how about people realize that you can make comebacks instead of giving up the instant the score is something like 7-0 10 mins in? how about people actually earn their late games instead of wanting it to be the norm? like I said before and like I said again, bounty gold isn't the issue. People being ahead is not the problem. There was a time where 10k gold leads literally meant nothing whatsoever since you could just stall the game endlessly with super ease. There was a point where you could reach 20k gold leads and still not be able to close games. Sorry but I rather not go back to those days where early game and gold leads meant nothing at all
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=00010000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:45:52.269+0000) > > yeah and instead what they want is FREE pass to the late game. How about people actually learn to adapt? how about people actually learn to not feed uncontrollably? how about people learn that always fighting isn't the answer? how about people realize that going behind a couple of CS is better than giving away 5 kills to the enemy? how about people realize that just because one person in the enemy team is ahead that doesn't mean that they lost? how about people realize that you can make comebacks instead of giving up the instant the score is something like 7-0 10 mins in? how about people actually earn their late games instead of wanting it to be the norm? like I said before and like I said again, bounty gold isn't the issue. People being ahead is not the problem. There was a time where 10k gold leads literally meant nothing whatsoever since you could just stall the game endlessly with super ease. There was a point where you could reach 20k gold leads and still not be able to close games. Sorry but I rather not go back to those days where early game and gold leads meant nothing at all Like I said, playing strategically and adapting to the situation is not the norm anymore. Everyone is just going balls to the wall 24/7 and feeding out of control once they're behind, because the pacing has pushed the game in this direction. This makes it impossible to climb and turns every game into a coinflip, because the team with the biggest monkey loses and nobody else in the game gets any say in the outcome.
: If you don't catch the snowball early then you should lose to the snowball that is the whole point if trying to go for an early snowball.
> [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:32:02.299+0000) > > If you don't catch the snowball early then you should lose to the snowball that is the whole point if trying to go for an early snowball. That's usually not an option. The snowball hits critical mass when one side has completed their first item; at that point, they become unstoppable, because the completed item is a massive powerspike over someone who only has half of their item's components. You can try to gank them, but unless you're equally fed, they're probably going to win or escape with summoners. The artificially prolonged laning phase makes it extremely hard to do anything before it's too late. > [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-12T03:41:22.504+0000) > > The problem is the player not the game. It has been for a long time now. I will give you two reasons why. > > 1. Player mentality is at an all time low and when a player sees one tiny thing go wrong they instantly give up. Some games are a grind and super hard and tedious to win especially with early game deficits, but most games are not decided in the first 10, 20, 25 minutes. If you think it is over than it is because you gave up not because it was not possible to recover. > > 2. Players not understanding that if they are behind they should sit back farm safe and just let themselves get carried. So many games I have lost because someone can't just farm safely after losing early trades. Honestly 50% of my loses are because of this. Yes, the problem is players who are behind playing like handicapped monkeys and feeding the shit out of the enemy team. This behavior has been promoted and rewarded by the recent change to make games faster paced, and the majority do not know how to play safely, and will never learn. You can't fix the players, so the game needs to be fixed.
: how are bounties helping the team that is ahead? the team that is ahead is the one who has the most to lose from bounties. Sorry but no, kill gold is the least of your worries when it comes to "snowballing"
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-12T02:45:54.644+0000) > > how are bounties helping the team that is ahead? the team that is ahead is the one who has the most to lose from bounties. Sorry but no, kill gold is the least of your worries when it comes to "snowballing" One person on the winning team is insanely ahead and has a 1000g bounty. The losing team has two lanes who have high CS because they're passively farming, and they have bounties for it. The person with the 1000g bounty has an insane advantage over the two farming champions and can easily collect the bounty on them, pushing them even further ahead. > [{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=66P91Hfj,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-12T02:49:25.640+0000) > > What the actually fuck is this garbage I just read? Counter snowball is so much stronger than it used to be. Bounties make up for more than 50% of the gold you are behind from the kills given which is an insane return rate. If I have 5 kills on you let's say without any diminishing returns which they would have at that point, but I will make it seem less terrible than it is, you would get 1500 gold for 5 kills, but be worth 800 gold. That is more than 50% of the gold you were behind. For 1 kill you get more than 2.5 kills worth of gold. That is so strong. Once you're ahead by a large enough amount, it becomes extremely hard to die unless you fuck up horribly, because you're one shotting the enemy with your number advantage. You have to make a huge mistake to lose it. Sure, if you're playing in Bronze or Silver, maybe that happens. As long as you aren't playing like a monkey, there's enough free gold for the winning team to safely close out the game. Also, you aren't considering that which champions gets the killing blow on someone with a bounty matters. It can easily go to the support and be wasted.
: does jhin feel a little weaker to anyone this current patch?
His artificially limited attack speed makes it impossible for him to contest with crit ADCs after 3 items.
Yenn (NA)
: This season is terrible. Every ranked game feels like it's scripted.
This is getting so ridiculous. Every game plays out the exact same way, with some variation in maybe 1/10 games. https://i.imgur.com/BZrV417.jpg[] Top lane counter picked and feeding, with some added kills to reset their bounty? Check. Bottom lane overpowered by aggressive lane and feeding? Check. The only thing missing is the jungle dying at scuttle and being permanently behind. These coinflip games that are over before they start are not fun and should not be the standard.
: you think everything is garbage , if you create a post its about something you think is bad not saying its not true but that is all your post
> [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=16Ei6amn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-11T01:55:29.083+0000) > > you think everything is garbage , if you create a post its about something you think is bad > > not saying its not true but that is all your post Maybe there would be something positive to post if this season wasn't such a massive fuck up Currently in my next game with **another** auto-filled top and jungle, and the top is already feeding with Pyke.
: She didn't miss you at all. She used her first Q to clear the minions you were hiding behind. She hit you with GLP. Either you or a minion gave her a second proc of her W with Ignite (It looks like you, because the location is outside of a minion movement pattern, and she would have had to expend the GLP shortly after picking it up). She hit you with both Ignite and 4 W orbs, 2 More Sparkle procs from her passive, and an E at the end.
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6oYhc34g,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-10T22:49:53.641+0000) > > She didn't miss you at all. She used her first Q to clear the minions you were hiding behind. She hit you with GLP. Either you or a minion gave her a second proc of her W with Ignite (It looks like you, because the location is outside of a minion movement pattern, and she would have had to expend the GLP shortly after picking it up). > > She hit you with both Ignite and 4 W orbs, 2 More Sparkle procs from her passive, and an E at the end. The entire point of this thread is that she only hit me with unavoidable damage and missed her max rank skill shot, and still dumpstered 100% of my health. And you can literally see her picking one up at the start, and that I don't have Ignite. > [{quoted}](name=Fízz v2,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6oYhc34g,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-10T23:08:41.731+0000) > > nah Zoe passive got gutted, pretty sure it wouldnt have killed there, and the shield wouldve saved you from ignite > > Zoe getting 2 ignites sucks but u couldve cleansed one of em too You can't cleanse Ignite.
: She hit you with a bubble at the end. If it had missed you would have survived even with the double ignite.
> [{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6oYhc34g,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-10T22:14:38.012+0000) > > She hit you with a bubble at the end. If it had missed you would have survived even with the double ignite. She could have replaced the bubble with an empowered auto, like I said in the post.
: It took them over two seconds to kill you, not one (starting from when Lee ulted you), and the fight was a melee assassin plus a melee fighter against a squishy mage. And it cost them two ults and a Flash.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2lzaiYPb,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-10T08:17:49.938+0000) > > It took them over two seconds to kill you, not one (starting from when Lee ulted you), and the fight was a melee assassin plus a melee fighter against a squishy mage. And it cost them two ults and a Flash. It took one second, the video is slowed down. They didn't need the Zed ult or the Flash, they were just bad players. It should have only cost them Lee Sin's ult. One ult should not result in an unavoidable zero counterplay death.
: Imagine having to actually ward the map and pay attention to things to not die. You got outplayed. Zed tanked your combo since he knew you lacked the damage needed to kill him, and it let Lee dive you because you had no way to respond, since your Q was on cooldown. Not to mention how Zed **set up the dive by getting minions right up to your turret. The minions you ignored in order to try to combo Zed**. Ward the red-side jungle entrance next time, and don't throw your abilities that you need to survive out if you don't know where the guy who can set up a kill on you is.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2lzaiYPb,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-10T05:41:10.587+0000) > > Imagine having to actually ward the map and pay attention to things to not die. > > You got outplayed. Zed tanked your combo since he knew you lacked the damage needed to kill him, and it let Lee dive you because you had no way to respond, since your Q was on cooldown. Not to mention how Zed **set up the dive by getting minions right up to your turret. The minions you ignored in order to try to combo Zed**. > > Ward the red-side jungle entrance next time, and don't throw your abilities that you need to survive out if you don't know where the guy who can set up a kill on you is. \> Imagine having to actually ward the map and pay attention to things to not die. Imagine if you could read the post. My ward at chickens is constantly cleared. I cannot defend it and I don't have unlimited wards. Completely leaving the lane every time he clears my ward is not an option, I'll never get CS. \> Zed tanked your combo since he knew you lacked the damage needed to kill him Zed tried to trade with me using his W and missed, so I punished him. If I leave him at full health, he'll roam to side lanes and pick up kills, which is significantly worse than me being dived. Aside from that, he can 100 to 0 me under my turret if my Barrier is down. Keeping him below max health prevents him from blowing my Barrier. Not interacting with Zed is not an option. \> and it let Lee dive you because you had no way to respond, since your Q was on cooldown. Wrong again, I couldn't have responded either way. Lee only used half of his Flash range, not the full Flash range. I had vision of him for maybe 1/4 of a second, at which point he could have flashed over my Q, or just flashed before he entered vision. Best case scenario, Lee is bound while kicking me and nothing of value is gained. \> Not to mention how Zed set up the dive by getting minions right up to your turret. The minions you ignored in order to try to combo Zed. This is completely irrelevant. Now you're just making shit up, or you actually have zero understanding of the game. The minions don't matter. They can do this even if the minions are at his turret. Also, Lee's R + Q combo took about 70% of my max health without the Barrier. It was not mostly Zed. Get out of here with your armchair analysis, you clearly lack understanding of how the game works.
Yenn (NA)
: I was gaining +22 LP and lost twice, then went 9-2 after and all 11 games were +15/-20 LP
L m a o Supposedly LP gains were fucked up at the start of the season, so they did a mass adjustment. If you did placements and didn't get to Diamond already, you're completely fucked and getting shit LP gains. At the same time, they did nothing to the S8 Gold/low Platinum players who spammed games to climb to Diamond with the inflated gains. I'm now losing 24 LP and gaining 12 LP.
iiGazeii (NA)
: See, the thing about that is that the bottom lane is much more interactive with everybody else. Bottom lane has to not only deal with two enemies, but also the jungler and sometimes even the midlaner roaming there. Having the game hinge more strongly on the botlaner winning gives more enemies the chance to stop them than any other role. If you win midlane, roam bot to either help them snowball or stop the enemy's.
> [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2zR8so1h,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-09T21:33:19.529+0000) > > See, the thing about that is that the bottom lane is much more interactive with everybody else. Bottom lane has to not only deal with two enemies, but also the jungler and sometimes even the midlaner roaming there. Having the game hinge more strongly on the botlaner winning gives more enemies the chance to stop them than any other role. > > If you win midlane, roam bot to either help them snowball or stop the enemy's. Bottom lane usually wins or loses within the first 5-10 minutes. It's incredibly rare that one side isn't feeding by the time you hit 6 as a solo lane, and roaming is actively punished right now due to plating. If I pressure bottom, I lose a minimum 160 gold to plating, possibly 320, for a **chance** at a kill that might just end up as a triple kill for the fed ADC. https://i.imgur.com/L3ZNnlz.jpg[] https://i.imgur.com/4p8NUDX.jpg[] https://i.imgur.com/CN81HV7.jpg[] And no, bottom lane can consistently maintain enough vision to never allow a successful gank, aside from fringe cases, like global ults or a high mobility jungle taking Thresh's lantern.
: Just buy a Blasting Wand and your trouble will be gone. Plus even after the range nerf you can throw an E out before the wave arrives, hitting at least 1 melee and the 3 casters guaranteed before they meet in the middle.
> [{quoted}](name=Snake of Avarice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vJakko1d,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-02-09T09:06:35.967+0000) > > Just buy a Blasting Wand and your trouble will be gone. > > Plus even after the range nerf you can throw an E out before the wave arrives, hitting at least 1 melee and the 3 casters guaranteed before they meet in the middle. > [{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vJakko1d,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-02-09T09:07:45.330+0000) > > if you max E and have no AP item there is a huge issue and it isn't with Lux damage. You both clearly have no idea what you're talking about. https://i.imgur.com/SSxwzal.gif[] I have a 12 minute Ludens. The caster minions do not die unless the Ludens proc kills them, in which case I need to only get the caster minions, or it might proc on the melee minions and not get all the casters. Side note, I also used all 6 Minion Dematerializers on caster minions, not just 4. tl;dr you're all wrong, Lux's E does not one shot the caster wave unless you're severely ahead and starting Deathcap as your second item. I'm not sure why you're even posting about this.
: Plat 4, plat 2, gold 1- likely in his promos. Not very far. And your mmr matters as well as theirs.
> [{quoted}](name=bluefire mark 2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4cvm6Edh,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-09T07:27:39.778+0000) > > Plat 4, plat 2, gold 1- likely in his promos. Not very far. And your mmr matters as well as theirs. You can literally see in the screenshot that he's nowhere close to promos, and they have 37% and 48% win rate. Their MMR is nowhere near the rest of the players in this game. Stop trying to find ways to explain away this broken system.
: Gold 1 isn't even that far from platinum 4... that's honestly not an issue.. i was gold last season and was getting matched with plats all the time and i was doing fine.
> [{quoted}](name=bluefire mark 2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4cvm6Edh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-09T07:09:58.189+0000) > > Gold 1 isn't even that far from platinum 4... that's honestly not an issue.. i was gold last season and was getting matched with plats all the time and i was doing fine. Gold I is very far from Platinum I. I was in Diamond promos.
Yenn (NA)
: This matchmaking seriously needs to be fixed, what is going on?
Queue again, and: https://i.imgur.com/lDOdxIE.png[] Why are there two Platinum IV players on my team, against a team of 4x Platinum I and 1x Platinum II?
Yenn (NA)
: I was gaining +22 LP and lost twice, then went 9-2 after and all 11 games were +15/-20 LP
I just lost promos and dropped to 45 LP. Despite going 14-3 in Platinum I, my MMR hasn't climbed high enough to be Diamond. What the fuck?
Envy Sin (NA)
: Support is auto fill protected he must have jungle as secondary role. Your argument is invalid
> [{quoted}](name=Envy Sin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RE646EFM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-09T05:28:44.343+0000) > > Support is auto fill protected he must have jungle as secondary role. Your argument is invalid I doubt that's still a thing, auto-fill at Diamond is mostly top and jungle, not support. If it is still a thing, that's even more of a fuck up. Either way, they said they were auto-filled, have a history full of support games, and had absolutely no idea how to play Lee Sin. The fact is that auto-fill should not happen during promos. This is the second game in a row I've had an auto-filled jungle.
rujitra (NA)
: Maybe you should go to their lane and help them catch back up instead of worrying about your own KDA?
> [{quoted}](name=usul1202,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4XL3R4V8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-09T00:19:16.891+0000) > > It is. If you're dying that much consistently you'll lose games and fall in elo down to other feeders/a level where you don't feed (unless you have an int-to-win strat like strategic death sion or proxy singed, in which case no punishment). No, they're only dying that much consistently **on their losses.** The dumb shit they're doing works 50% of the time, as long as they have a number advantage. The problem is that they continue to play the exact same way even when they don't have the advantage that makes it work. > [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4XL3R4V8,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-09T02:41:14.396+0000) > > Maybe you should go to their lane and help them catch back up instead of worrying about your own KDA? Losing 320+ gold worth of plating and risking death to gank a lane that is behind 10 kills because they're playing like suicidal monkeys is one of the worst things you can possibly do.
Yenn (NA)
: I was gaining +22 LP and lost twice, then went 9-2 after and all 11 games were +15/-20 LP
I'm now 13-3, still getting +15 LP and -20 LP despite an even higher win rate
: {{item:2403}}
> [{quoted}](name=letsfeedtogether,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vJakko1d,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-08T08:46:25.590+0000) > > {{item:2403}} . > **You have to go Dematerializer, and even then, the casters are left with 10 health if you don't use 5/6 of them on caster minions. If you need Hourglass as your second item, you're shit out of luck, because it doesn't provide enough AP.**
: No. thats not a good reasonto buff a champ. and she does 1 shot them i used to all the time
> [{quoted}](name=letsfeedtogether,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vJakko1d,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-08T08:01:48.507+0000) > > No. thats not a good reasonto buff a champ. and she does 1 shot them i used to all the time 'i used to all the time' Okay, well she no longer does. You have to go Dematerializer, and even then, the casters are left with 10 health if you don't use 5/6 of them on caster minions. If you need Hourglass as your second item, you're shit out of luck, because it doesn't provide enough AP. And yes, that is a good reason to buff a champion. Being shut down from CSing well during the mid game, which is very crucial, is kind of game breaking. It's also compounded by the minion speed buffs making it so you can no longer hit the entire wave as it's moving, since they walk through the area too fast.
Ephixus (EUW)
: then my champs also should get buffed just to one shot minion wave.
> [{quoted}](name=Ephixus,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vJakko1d,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-08T07:54:41.094+0000) > > then my champs also should get buffed just to one shot minion wave. Pretty much every mid either has the ability to one shot the wave or clear it with two short cooldowns. The problem with leaving it at 10 health is that rogue caster minions will sometimes steal your CS, if not your team mates. You basically can't get much CS while grouped unless you're incredibly fed or rushing Deathcap as second item.
Yenn (NA)
: Okay, ranked LP gains are actually fucked up
I'm losing 20 LP, gaining 15 LP. How the fuck does this make any sense?
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Yenn

Level 116 (NA)
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