: COMMUNITY POLL ON THE GREATEST AND POOPEST SUPPORTIEST ITEMS IN THE GAME
{{champion:350}} Assumes Cut Down is being used S: {{item:3098}}{{item:3285}}{{item:3174}}{{item:3089}} A: {{item:3905}}{{item:3030}}{{item:3135}}{{item:3041}} B: {{item:3146}}{{item:3504}}{{item:3151}}{{item:3165}}{{item:2065}} C: {{item:3107}}{{item:3222}}{{item:3100}}{{item:3020}}{{item:3158}} D: {{item:3027}}{{item:3096}}{{item:3102}}{{item:3116}}{{item:3157}}{{item:3109}}{{item:3190}}{{item:3040}}{{item:3117}} F: {{item:3111}}{{item:3009}}{{item:3047}}{{item:3152}}{{item:3097}}{{item:3800}}{{item:3050}}{{item:3512}}
: Do Supports Need Items to be Useful?
Supports, by definition, function well on a lower budget, letting you funnel gold into a champion that can better make use of that gold. When people say that Supports don't need gold/items, they mean they don't need them as much, since your team _should_ have greater success if the carry has more gold/items than the support. You don't need items to be useful in this game, regardless of your role, but obviously you're going to be much more useful with items.
: Actually how do you play with a Yuumi as an adc?
Walk forward as much as you safely can while a Yuumi's Q is in flight in order to extend Yuumi's range. (This is usually not that hard since most people tend to run away from Yuumi Q, and if they don't by staying in the minions, their lane partner is probably running and you can usually throw autos at them relatively safely) She can easily exceed Xerath or Vel'koz range in this manner, as the range is dynamic and based on your position. Aside from that, all you have to worry about is being within 700 range of your Yuumi so that they can run back to you whenever they need to. Yuumi's ult is best cast while attached, (since she's channeling and thus any cc will end her ult early) so positioning for your Yuumi during it would be nice, but isn't absolutely necessary since they can get off and do it themselves.
: I actually don't think so. If i'm a trynd player and I have a great split oppurtunity, i'll take it and possibly get 3 towers with it. Yuumi on the other hand would only use it if the team got aced, which doesn't happen too often before 20 minutes, or if everyone was mid, whereas the entire enemy team would be there too. I ultimately think that the player standing on top should get it
A Yuumi that only uses it when their team is dead isn't making good use of it. She could just as easily attach to a Tryndamere and get the same outcome, but without having to sit still to summon it.
Mistiya (NA)
: Yuumi does not detatch from a dead Kogmaw until the passive pops. This is generally not a good thing for the Yuumi since the kogmaw is trying to throw himself into the enemy team at that point :P
That sounds like a universally good thing because there's no cooldown on detaching.
rujitra (NA)
: Words themselves have no meaning. Words are merely collections of shapes (letters) that convey meaning only because we give them meaning. However, communication would not work if we just threw words together. We have invented classes of words that have different uses - verbs communicate actions, nouns communicate things, adjectives describe features of a particular "thing", etc. We've gone even further, however, and come to a mutual understanding as society over thousands of years that words are not just used to define their definition, but that words convey **tone** as well. As an example, the two following messages convey a very different tone, even though the message is the same: >Shall I compare thee to a summer's day? Thou art more lovely and more temperate. versus >You're hot and pretty, but tempered and enjoyable. One sounds very eloquent, very "flowing", and very complimentary. The other, while conveying the same message, sounds businesslike, cold, and forced. Likewise, while the words were "do yall speak any english", there are multiple things that cause it to have a negative, racist tone. The use of the word "any" here is unnecessary. The use of that word **implies** two things - that they do not speak any english (else it would be unnecessary to put that in), as well as that the fact they don't speak it is bad. Think of it like this - when someone in real life says "could you be ANY more annoying", they're not really asking you could you be annoying - they're telling you that you're being annoying. That is the tone of that message. If that was not the intended tone, then the OP should choose their words more carefully next time. The other message which says "if only... actually spoke..." is two more phrases with a very negative connotation. Even the phrase you "literally" translated it into (hint: you misused the word literally there) is negative - "i wish i could" in this instance is a defeatist, negative, and frankly "calling out" type phrase. If the OP had said "I can't understand what you're saying" there would be no problem. The OP did so by belittling the language they were speaking at multiple instances, then getting into an argument the entire game over it. Not acceptable, period.
> The use of the word "any" here is unnecessary. The use of that word implies two things - that they do not speak any english (else it would be unnecessary to put that in), as well as that the fact they don't speak it is bad. First off, Since this question is in regards to whether they can answer the question or not, implying they can't is the same as asking people to clear up your misunderstanding or otherwise confirm your suspicion implicitly. Example: Your tacit reasoning for the original poster's (OP's) quote being bad is because it isn't a genuine question, is it not? Since I brought up what I am under the impression your reasoning is, I will address it: If OP sees other players type in another language, it is not unreasonable to think that there is a chance that they know some English*, considering that the playerbase is predominantly English-speaking. I've played some games that weren't in English before, and a basic vocabulary (in League's case, the roles mostly, but also the champion names or item names, considering you can double check them) goes a long way in communicating with other players. Second, the inability to speak any English is, factually, bad, just as it is bad that the OP cannot speak any Chinese. It creates a barrier to communication, which is inherently a disadvantage in a team-based game. > Think of it like this - when someone in real life says "could you be ANY more annoying", they're not really asking you could you be annoying - they're telling you that you're being annoying. That is an atrocious example for two main reasons: 1. It is sarcastic when the quote it is being compared to isn't. As I said above*, playing a game in a predominantly English-speaking region provides a reason to believe that players not speaking English are capable of speaking English to some degree. It is therefore unreasonable to assume that the OP had no reason to believe as such, and label his question as sarcastic and rhetorical. 2. Annoying is inherently an insult. An inability to speak another language is not, (unless you consider _any_ implications of imperfection an insult) and implying someone can't when it is a reasonable assumption (reasonable in that it is not unlikely given the information one currently possesses) is in no way disparaging of their ability to do so. Think of it like this - when someone in real life says "Could you play any songs on the piano?" they are in fact asking if you are able to play a song on the piano. "Any" in this instance is lowering the bar of entry; they want to know if you can play Mary had a little lamb, and feel like you'd be inclined to exclude it otherwise. You're right that tone matters, but this is not indicative of tone by itself. If it came at the end of a questions about whether you can play specific songs on the piano, you'd be able to infer the sarcasm from context, but I believe assuming the worst in people with so little to go off of is very malapropos. > That is the tone of that message. If that was not the intended tone, then the OP should choose their words more carefully next time. Why should they though? No matter how you choose our words, someone is going to be able to misinterpret them. For example, your statement: > That is the tone of that message. Implies that your interpretation of this tone is objectively correct, and that dissenting opinions are invalid non-arguments. You can try to avoid misinterpretation through carefully thought out word choice, but considering the context, (a game played _in real time_) this will negatively impact the flow of communication. It is better, therefore, to not fret excessively as long as you correct miscommunication where it arises, which the OP apparently never got a chance to do because they never understood how it was misinterpreted. > The other message which says "if only... actually spoke..." is two more phrases with a very negative connotation. Even the phrase you "literally" translated it into (hint: you misused the word literally there) is negative - "i wish i could" in this instance is a defeatist, negative, and frankly "calling out" type phrase. If the OP had said "I can't understand what you're saying" there would be no problem. All true > The OP did so by belittling the language they were speaking at multiple instances Not true. Expression of discontent caused by a language barrier is not a belittlement of another language. The OP belittled their team, pointed out their shortcomings and eventually insulted them, but nowhere did they make disparaging comments about their language, culture or race. > "i wish i could" in this instance is a defeatist, negative, and frankly "calling out" type phrase. Again, true, but the point was that specifically referring to English is more of a turn of phrase than necessarily being a ethnocentric statement.
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vB1fjvJr,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-17T08:52:58.686+0000) > > Good Abbys soak EXP and don't just sit in base. > > Yuumi is done just fine. but most folks run awfull rune and item build on her currently so shes not gonna look that great. > > This is just fine imo. Leave it be let folks who get the mechanic use her. I don't get how people complain as if they know Yuumi inside out in the FIRST DAY of her release. Even more annoyingly, perhaps more infuriatingly, that Riot actually just kneejerk buffed her. Does the countless champ release disasters directly a result of kneejerk buff right after launch not give Riot enough lessons?
> Even more annoyingly, perhaps more infuriatingly, that Riot actually just kneejerk buffed her. I agree Riot does this a lot, and Imma let you finish, but release Yuumi had the lowest win rate the game has seen in seven years, and even with the buffs her winrates are still sub-40%
5050BS (NA)
: Riot DISABLE Yuumi in RANKED
> they can actually try and still 75% of the time lose. It was 70% before the hotfix buff and 63% after.
: Yuumi
I agree with the other posters in this thread about not building standard Support fare; after playing several games building {{item:3504}}{{item:3174}}{{item:2065}} and then a build path like {{item:3285}}{{item:3089}}{{item:3905}}, I have come to the conclusion that the latter is more effective. I also maxed E second with the first build and W second with the second, and found that the overall adaptive force boost is much more valuable, and that even the differences in healing is partially made up for with the extra AP.
: Yuumi and Twitch: Yuumi invisible Q
Yuumi can gain stealth when attached to a stealthed champion, but her skillshots do not; Q and R remain visible, and neither slow unless Q reaches its second phase (after traveling for 1 second) or if Yuumi buys a Rylai's. Perhaps Twitch was using Bilgewater Cutlass or Blade of the Ruined King?
: Not so Daily Reminder: Ziggs is still greatly struggling.
A sub-50% winrate on brain-dead champions like Sona and Volibear means they are "greatly struggling". A 50% and change winrate on those champions means they probably aren't in the best spot at the moment. Ziggs is not one of those champions. All of those buffs, even if you only gave him one, is overkill. My _best_ guess, is that this is a shitpost.
: Does Zoe really need damages on his e?
Zoe is balanced around the damage on her E. Take it away, and she'll get compensation buffs on her Q. She'll also have less incentive to set up her E, so she'll play more like old Nidalee, which is exactly what they want to avoid.
Mordius (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=XionOfTheShadow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=plKiFh9A,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-30T05:13:14.878+0000) > > Buy the second tier and if you passed the quest limit it unlocks it's wards. Does my 94 overflow go towards the next tier?
There is no next tier quest if that's what you mean. When you upgrade the item, it keeps your quest progress. As stated on the item, you need to upgrade it in order to complete the quest.
: >Unless you're trying to say that your statement was arguing against an argument I didn't make (that Rioters don't want to talk to anybody about anything) I'm not feeling particularly illuminated. You "quoted" me by throwing everything I said out the window and putting in the same place something you'd WANT me to say and followed with "Entitled much?". Now you're saying that I was arguing against your "argument" despite the FACT I said I'm not going to respond to a non-argument. And then you yet again responded to a thing you'd WANT me to say, not what I ACTUALLY said. >See that? I just used a different definition of the word illuminated than the most common definition. Google harassment if you need to. "Illuminate" has two equally common meanings and [one much less common, but much more specialized in usage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminated_manuscript). I'm pretty sure you're not talking about books here. >It's annoying. Your opinion. >Most people hate it. Your opinion. >Therefore, you shouldn't do it. Your opinion. >I don't think (...) I don't think https://fivehundredphilosophy.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/bar.png >I don't think that's an unreasonable request, and for that reason, I don't think contrarianism is warranted here. You know what's the best part? That instead of attempting to sound intelligent, you only needed to read and quote http://i.imgur.com/EoPVI7O.jpg?b > Spamming / Trolling > > - Here is a breakdown of the various types of spam / trolling that we look for: > - Posting content not related to the discussion Of course, I'm sure we are both aware (or are you?) that an overwhelming majority of DA RULES from the spam section is rarely, if ever, enforced, which is why comments like that are allowed to exist.
>You "quoted" me by throwing everything I said out the window and putting in the same place something you'd WANT me to say and followed with "Entitled much?". Now you're saying that I was arguing against your "argument" despite the FACT I said I'm not going to respond to a non-argument. And then you yet again responded to a thing you'd WANT me to say, not what I ACTUALLY said. >Unless This is the part where I accuse you of doing the same, except, by quoting just one line of what I've said, I can explain why your assumptions are incorrect, avoiding a pointless back and forth. >Your opinion. I don't believe I've ever claimed otherwise. >Rules Clearly they don't matter to you. >"Illuminate" has two equally common meanings and one much less common, but much more specialized in usage. I'm pretty sure you're not talking about books here. You must be trolling mate. My own fault, I guess, for not recognizing it sooner. https://i.imgur.com/cWW5bb1.png https://i.imgur.com/nChSoul.png https://i.imgur.com/uUmTR8c.png
: >You said it's a strawman, I say I don't see how it fails to properly represent your argument, but you're right in that it's not important. I said it's a straw-man, because what you wrote has nothing to do with what I wrote. It's that simple. If you have problem seeing why, I'd suggest reading that comment after you left your bias behind the door. >I have actually, but I think you're missing the point here. Just because you can do something without consequence doesn't mean you should. I'll quote a part of my comment, because you missed the point. _"If, for an extreme internet example, you go to 4chan or any "chan" for that matter, you shouldn't be surprised you got a called a "f*g", **because that's the type of community they are. If you don't like it, you don't go there**."_ >It was because you seem to be missing or ignoring the point. A PR division existing to be bothered doesn't change the things I brought up. You make it sound as if asking about something unrelated scars people for life or at least ruins their day which is _- to be civil about it -_ completely silly. >Changes already on the PBE that is. And considering your previous comment what did you think I was talking about? >First of all, something done only once can be considered harassment. The definition of "harassment" is REPETITIVE negative behavior. >Second of all, being bothered the same way by different people fits the definition of harassment you are using here. Different people asking different people for something unrelated once is not harassment. >Third, I've not once seen a Rioter respond to something off-topic unless it was tangent or to explain to someone that they need to send in a Support ticket, not take it to them. What can I say, I haven't seen a lot of things myself, doesn't mean they don't exist. >Finally, it doesn't stop being rude to the op of the thread, getting their topic hijacked because a Rioter posted in it. So rude. We should have safe spaces here.
>If you have problem seeing why, I'd suggest reading that comment after you left your bias behind the door. Unless you're trying to say that your statement was arguing against an argument I didn't make (that Rioters don't want to talk to _anybody_ about _anything_) I'm not feeling particularly illuminated. See that? I just used a different definition of the word illuminated than the most common definition. Google harassment if you need to. >You make it sound as if asking about something unrelated scars people for life or at least ruins their day which is - to be civil about it - completely silly. ~ >So rude. We should have safe spaces here. ~ >I'll quote a part of my comment, because you missed the point. "If, for an extreme internet example, you go to 4chan or any "chan" for that matter, you shouldn't be surprised you got a called a "fg", *because that's the type of community they are. If you don't like it, you don't go there." It's annoying. Most people hate it. Therefore, you shouldn't do it. I don't think that's an unreasonable request, and for that reason, I don't think contrarianism is warranted here.
: >You're not really explaining why this isn't exactly what you're doing here. I'm not going to respond to a made up non-argument. >That doesn't change the fact that they probably have no responsibilities on the boards, as well as probably aren't able to disclose uncertain changes. Not even things on the PBE are set in stone, so sharing things not even on there is a risk. Riot already announces and/or provides context on most changes, so they don't really have a lot of "insider knowledge" to give. Anyway, that's besides the point; You are like a broken record. >Not even things on the PBE are set in stone Except an overwhelming majority of changes, in fact, are. >Harassing them doesn't solve anything, and it's rude both for the Rioter and the op of the thread. Oh, quite the contrary. I've personally been involved in at least two cases where "harassing" _(which is a fundamentally wrong usage of the word, because something done once is not harassment)_ Rioters not directly involved with an issue resulted in said issue being resolved. >Even if this was 4chan, it's a shitty thing to do. You haven't been to any chans then.
>I'm not going to respond to a made up non-argument. You said it's a strawman, I say I don't see how it fails to properly represent your argument, but you're right in that it's not important. >You haven't been to any chans then. I have actually, but I think you're missing the point here. Just because you can do something without consequence doesn't mean you should. >You are like a broken record. It was because you seem to be missing or ignoring the point. A PR division existing to be bothered doesn't change the things I brought up. >Except an overwhelming majority of changes, in fact, are. Changes already on the PBE that is. >Oh, quite the contrary. I've personally been involved in at least two cases where "harassing" (which is a fundamentally wrong usage of the word, because something done once is not harassment) Rioters not directly involved with an issue resulted in said issue being resolved. First of all, something done only once can be considered harassment. Second of all, being bothered the same way by different people fits the definition of harassment you are using here. Third, I've not once seen a Rioter respond to something off-topic unless it was tangent or to explain to someone that they need to send in a Support ticket, not take it to them. Finally, it doesn't stop being rude to the op of the thread, getting their topic hijacked because a Rioter posted in it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yrzen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VGTsRfx3,comment-id=000e000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-22T02:18:39.077+0000) > > "If they don't want to answer my complaints in their free time or point me to one specific person on the balance team-" (who by the way, isn't obligated to answer you) "-they should never post on the boards." > > Entitled much? And this, ladies and gentleman, is a perfect example of a "straw-man" argument. > Even if Riot's PR division has a responsibility to the boards beyond moderating it, (which I doubt) they don't work on the balance team, and thus don't answer questions about balance. They can't, really, and even if they shared what they know, they might just be referencing a change or feature that will never make it through, which was a big communication problem in the past. I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't even allowed to comment on things like that as a result. Looks like you lack understanding of what PR is. It requires a wide spectrum of people who have to deal with a wide spectrum of issues. It isn't just a single person. Ideally every division should have their own PR branch that specializes in that part of what a company is involved in. This means that, yes, they should know what's going on in the Balance team, Lore Team, on the Boards, Reddit, Twitter. All of it. They are for all intends and purposes responsible for the public image of the company. > Hell, even if a Rioter is on the balance team, they might have the same problem, and even without that, why would they, when they don't have to and we have people here so hostile as to suggest that they shouldn't come here at all? Because in life when you willingly - or not, it doesn't really matter - set out to deal with people, you should know it's not all unicorns and rainbows. If, for an extreme internet example, you go to 4chan or any "chan" for that matter, you shouldn't be surprised you got a called a _"f\*g"_, because that's the type of community they are. If you don't like it, you don't go there. Boards are no different in that aspect, because - as you said yourself - most of Rioters commenting here are not anyhow obligated to do so. As long as you are here, people are going to bother you, because they want answers and you are an official employee. It's pretty logical when you think about it, but logic in short supply sometimes.
> And this, ladies and gentleman, is a perfect example of a "straw-man" argument. You're not really explaining why this isn't exactly what you're doing here. > Looks like you lack understanding of what PR is. It requires a wide spectrum of people who have to deal with a wide spectrum of issues. It isn't just a single person. Ideally every division should have their own PR branch that specializes in that part of what a company is involved in. This means that, yes, they should know what's going on in the Balance team, Lore Team, on the Boards, Reddit, Twitter. All of it. They are for all intends and purposes responsible for the public image of the company. That doesn't change the fact that they probably have no responsibilities on the boards, as well as probably aren't able to disclose uncertain changes. Not even things on the PBE are set in stone, so sharing things not even on there is a risk. Riot already announces and/or provides context on most changes, so they don't really have a lot of "insider knowledge" to give. Anyway, that's besides the point; >Because in life when you willingly - or not, it doesn't really matter - set out to deal with people, you should know it's not all unicorns and rainbows. >As long as you are here, people are going to bother you, because they want answers and you are an official employee. >It's pretty logical when you think about it, but logic in short supply sometimes. There's not liking social interaction (Or a particular type of interaction at that) and then there's being harassed just because of the company you work for. This is what I mean; from what you're saying, it seems like you're implying that you're entitled to annoy Rioters. These people will probably get in trouble for disclosing uncertain changes, and probably don't even have much knowledge _for that reason_. In the past, different people disclosed different things because of changed plans, and ultimately a lot of people got pissed off. They apologized and regarded it as a PR failure, which I imagine led to some sort of official restriction of disclosure. Even if they know something, they probably can't respond even if they wanted to. Harassing them doesn't solve anything, and it's rude both for the Rioter and the op of the thread. Even if this was 4chan, it's a shitty thing to do. As such, I can't fathom any sort of justification.
: Correct you can't stack the unique passives, but the mana still is applied for the 1 that does work. Besides your build requires you to have an allied Ornn, a fully stacked {{item:3041}}, and an active elixir. One is situational, another is risky, and the last requires you have enough gold to keep it active. So while it may have the highest AP you can get it's not practical. The {{item:3040}} stack on the other hand has an absolutely massive shield and pretty much cannot run out of mana. Swap one of them for a {{item:3135}} and you would have a more practical build with better damage penetration.
It's not a build in anything but practice mode. It's just the most AP you can get.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yrzen,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=1hWGWZLh,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2018-01-22T01:30:43.783+0000) > > {{item:3040}}'s AP bonus doesn't stack. > > {{item:3040}}{{item:3041}}{{item:3089}}{{item:3089}}{{item:3089}}{{item:3374}}{{item:2139}} Is the highest AP you can get. Actually, the AP bonus might not stack, but it's still 1000 more mana to work with the AP bonus. It gives more than a second Rabadon's. {{item:3041}} {{item:3374}} {{item:3040}} {{item:3040}} {{item:3040}} {{item:3040}} Is the highest AP combo
It gives 3% of your mana as AP. 3% of 1000 is 30. 80+30=110 AP. Rabadon's is 120 AP. Both Rod of Ages and Morellonomicon would give 112 AP.
: If they have no desire to talk they shouldn't come here and leave it to those that get paid for it. Every company has a PR division which purpose is in fact being bothered by the public.
"If they don't want to answer my complaints in their free time or point me to one specific person on the balance team-" (who by the way, isn't obligated to answer you) "-they should never post on the boards." Entitled much? Even if Riot's PR division has a responsibility to the boards beyond moderating it, (which I doubt) they don't work on the balance team, and thus don't answer questions about balance. They can't, really, and even if they shared what they know, they might just be referencing a change or feature that will never make it through, which was a big communication problem in the past. I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't even allowed to comment on things like that as a result. Hell, even if a Rioter is on the balance team, they might have the same problem, and even without that, why would they, when they don't have to and we have people here so hostile as to suggest that they shouldn't come here at all?
: isn't it seraph + mejai + rab + 3 roa?
The bonus AP from mana make Seraph's synergize with mana items, but Morellonomicon, (112 AP) Rod of Ages (112 AP) or even another Seraph's (110 AP) will all fall short of more Rabadon's in terms of raw AP. They're certainly more practical though.
: Stcking 5 {{item:3040}} with 1 {{item:3089}} would be better
{{item:3040}}'s AP bonus doesn't stack. {{item:3040}}{{item:3041}}{{item:3089}}{{item:3089}}{{item:3089}}{{item:3374}}{{item:2139}} Is the highest AP you can get.
: Are they being kept in a box? Even technicians for shitty customer services (like internet or mobile providers) can either point you towards an appropriate division, give you a correct number or reroute your call there. Meanwhile Rioters don't do shit in the same situation and for some reason some people still claim they are the best of all game companies communicating with customers. Since getting an answer in the proper section of Boards is nigh-impossible people go to Rioters directly.
Except it's not their jobs to do anything on the boards. They shouldn't be doing "rerouting" either; it'd just be rude of them to point to a coworker and say "Bother them, it's they're job/fault." They don't have the time or desire to argue/debate all day, and that's inevitably what the boards want out of them.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yrzen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9KyM3i6u,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-19T23:05:47.402+0000) > > I'm gonna pretend you didn't make any mistakes this game, because that's not what you're complaining about here. The number one advice I would suggest for people losing because of their teammates: Call more shots. > > Warn your teammates about what's a bad idea the moment they start to make it. Take more initiative in everything everyone does, and do it in a way that doesn't make you seem like a jerk, because no one wants to listen to that asshole who's just setting up for an "I told you so". > > You can't always have full agency over a team game, but you'd be surprised just how much control you can get by speaking up when you want/don't want someone to do something. "Yo Yasuo and Cait, I don't want you guys afk alright? 10min later no response..." Yeah idt that helps cus they afk......
Then report them and move on with your life.
: LF someone to tell me what I did wrong this game
I'm gonna pretend you didn't make any mistakes this game, because that's not what you're complaining about here. The number one advice I would suggest for people losing because of their teammates: Call more shots. Warn your teammates about what's a bad idea the moment they start to make it. Take more initiative in everything everyone does, and do it in a way that doesn't make you seem like a jerk, because no one wants to listen to that asshole who's just setting up for an "I told you so". You can't always have full agency over a team game, but you'd be surprised just how much control you can get by speaking up when you want/don't want someone to do something.
Sichem (NA)
: Oh, may I have that link please lol {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
https://youtu.be/f-Uqzp1AVDM
: The quest reward changes to support items are the ABSOLUTE WORST way to deal with the abuse from the items. No actual support players want to have one of the more engaging aspects of their core items get gutted and replaced with Sightstone actives. It's just terrible on all levels. Find some other way of fixing it, such as making the items directly lower your stats until a certain point, to prevent other lanes from taking them or something. Literally any other path you could have taken that would have preserved these items for the class who needs them to be fun and engaging.
Stop saying "No actual Support players" want this. I want this. I main Support. The changes _aren't_ being made to prevent abuse cases. It's because a sightstone tax is really unsatisfying as far as player agency goes. It is in no way engaging having to spend 800 gold every game before getting to choose any items, and getting a sightstone active for free feels more engaging than these quest rewards that currently don't change the way you play very much.
Iivaitte (NA)
: A Fix Suggestion for the Support Itemization Problem
They're getting removed to accomodate the sightstone quests, (which in turn opens up Support build paths and is supposed to make Support more satisyfing overall) and their actives are purportedly going onto new items. Solo laners and adcs taking Support items isn't really a problem right now. It's the same principle as Cull; give up stats (Doran's Blade) now to get minor stats for the time being and a refund to your gold later. In Relic Shield's case, the gold goes to the Support for a faster Ardent Censer. They've sometimes been problematic in the past but that isn't the reason they are being removed at all. In fact, solo laners are usually better off just taking the first tier Support item and sitting on it for as long as possible, then selling it. The changes don't affect that at all.
: Im sorry but......whats up with these support item changes?
Unpopular opinion, I'm really happy with these changes. I'm a Support main, and as far as I'm concerned, Riot is spot-on with their assessment of Sightstone: It's a pain to build. It's mandatory and insanely useful, but as far as Support satisfaction goes, it's a real bummer. As a Support, you can't take advantage of your leads with an early Censer/Damage Item/Utility item, you just fulfill your tax early. When you're behind, you end up spending a decent portion of the game with little to no decision making in your build. It's not particularly satisfying to finish your Sightstone: you just finally get to do significant amounts of warding. I agree that losing Ruby Sightstone is a shame, since some builds really like it, and those builds can be really, really fun, but considering we have a rune that does what it does better, I suppose that niche isn't really going to go unfulfilled. As for Frost Queens/Face of the Mountain/Talisman of Ascension, it's also unfortunate they're getting removed, but ultimately I don't really mind. The Eye items provide better stats in _every_ category (Talisman's armor excluded) for their price. As such, I usually want to get started on building other items. The value of the active items is wrapped up in their utility, but I don't think any of those utilities are particularly defining. Talisman's was the most unique in my opinion (Or rather, defined the way you play the most) but ultimately there are other options that _kind of_ let you do what it lets you do anyway, which are now more practical to rush without 800 gold in the way.
Ifneth (NA)
: Make Client Call Mid "Middle" During Champion Select
Mid is a word. It is not strictly an abbreviation.
: Is Spellthief officially stronger than Doran's Ring?
You can consider Spellthief's an AP Cull. It has weaker combat stats, but eventually pays for itself, with a small bonus. Unlike Cull however, you can't really speed up its rate of gold generation, so you can't buy it late like you can with Cull.
Tsumagin (NA)
: Silent night sona in arurf
It's a shame too. If there was any URF where Sona probably wouldn't be too broken, it'd be this one, where she has some of the lowest numbers she's ever had. It's kind of ridiculous the way Riot has been treating her.
: Since I Dodged
Karthus top is an uncommon but perfectly normal pick. (Normal enough to be tracked by statistic sites) His winrate is very close to or notably higher than his mid winrate, (depending on which site you use, since they get their data in different manners) and Karthus doesn't particularly benefit from Flash compared to most. For all you know, he was going to take Unsealed Spellbook. The latter seems more suspicious, but I don't see what Gnar lacks as a Support relative to other champions. As for Jinx, I can speak from experience ([Because I just so happened to get Mastery 7 playing Jinx Support almost exclusively](https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2222993525/211449433?tab=overview) ...) that Jinx Support is one of the most competent adc-Supports, (Never let anyone tell you Ashe Support isn't hot garbage) and is perhaps the strongest she's been in a long time with the introduction of Glacial Augment and Press the Attack. She has a significant poke range on both her Q and W and has some cc to offer as well. I grant she might not be particularly good, (Not that several champions in their intended role are right now) but I think it's narrow-minded to presume that no one can ever earnestly try to play a champion/role combination you aren't familiar with, or have success with it.
MysterQ (NA)
: It is cool. And not a coding nightmare. But it is a player nightmare. Many people like to Flash Engag..... channeling..... engage! and it looks like your solution does not allow that unless they prefire at ~~something.~~ a champion.
As well, it stops you from being able to flash in order to dodge while out of combat, especially flashing to avoid cc which can be a death sentence. In terms of allowing Flash and Hexflash at the same time, might I suggest something akin to Leblanc's Shadow of the Rose?
: Just an observation...take it for what you will.
Your arguments seem to point towards the new mastery system being a good thing and the old system being a bad thing, except you say it means the other way around. >Many of these choices are illusions of choice or false choice; sometimes, these choices are so similar that the decision means almost nothing (i.e. warriors at this time had a tree of "charge is better"), others, one choice is so blatantly superior that the other choices might as well not exist. This was exactly the problem the old runes and masteries had. The choice between these extremely small boosts were hardly a choice at all. >Total flexibility, freedom of choice, individual customization options, bonus for going "all the way" but doing so not required or even always optimal. A choice between AD and AP is hardly an actual choice. That's saying something because 8 points of the offense tree were dedicated to each damage type. (To put that into perspective, there's a total of 37 points on the offense tree. In other words, going full 30 is wasting points if your champion isn't mixed. The only choice available there is for mixed champions to pick up both, though there are very few actual mixed champions to speak of. 21/9 was optimal a huge majority of the time, and usually only with a specific primary tree, for each champion. 13/17 was sometimes a viable option but in my experience, pretty much only Supports took it because they felt they didn't have a choice but to pick up Bandit. (This is mostly a matter of the Utility tree having an underwhelming 21 compared to other trees) Of the choices you actually have, you don't feel most of them, as the bonus they offer is so little. The next tree offered less flexibility, (in terms of mixing and matching trees) but in exchange the choices actually meant something. It was still held back by the limited power budget it and runes had, and I can see why you wouldn't it like it compared to the old tree. Still, I like the fact that they removed the "choose between AD and AP" aspect and opened up your choices, in some cases, to go into one tree or another instead of feeling pidgeonholed into always going a specific tree. (As a support main, I'm also happy that you didn't need to give up a 21/keystone for Bandit anymore) >And we've come full circle! Almost entirely predetermined choices, which are, generally speaking, essentially locked in already based on who you want to play. Illusion of choice, options are there but they don't really exist, and many of the choices available to you are worthless and so you come down to a central few you always pick. See, this is what I mean. In the old trees, a lot of choices were straight up better for your champion or had such a small impact that they didn't really matter. It was an illusion of choice, options that are there but don't really exist. In the new setup, you have five trees and can actually pick between _more than two trees_ for _all_ champions. Many champions don't work with several keystones, but even then, most champions have many more keystones to choose from than before. Let's take, for example, Lulu. (Mostly because I'm familiar with her) According to winrates, (better or not even a full percent short of her average overall winrate) Summon: Aery, Guardian and Kleptomancy are all viable keystones on her. That's three keystones from three different trees that respectively have three more choices of three additional options for every tree. Granted, some options aren't a real choice due to her synergy, (Never pick minion dematerializer or celestial body, always pick Revitalize if in either tree) but that is still a huge step up compared to before, where her only choices that mattered were either which trees to pick (since the contents are 80% (Literally, 78.947%) cookie-cutter and the rest hardly matters) or to go with Thunderlord's or Windspeaker's. According to lolalytics, she has synergy with Celerity, Font of Life, Revitalize, and Magical Footwear, and doesn't have synergy with Eyeball Collection or Sudden Impact. Everything else we either don't have data on because it isn't taken enough (we don't have any data on the precision tree for example, though it's an alright secondary, particularly with an attack speed build for solo lanes) or it is viable on her. That gives you the option to go with any of 26 different runes without Precision. (Since Precision is more for solo lane Lulu, and her dueling capabilities) Hell, even the alternatives to Celerity and Future's Market have a high pick rate because they actually present a unique choice that some will prefer over the alternative. That brings the total choices up to 29. 29, not including your keystone. What did the old system have over this freedom of choice? Your choice of tree was basically like your choice of keystone. The actual contents offered choices, for our example Lulu, like Spell+Blade Weaving vs full points in AP masteries vs Dangerous Game/Double-Edged Sword. The first two choices have less of an impact or are less meaningful than modern runes. While Dangerous Game and Double-Edged Sword are an actual choice, you still weigh them against raw stats and bonus damage from the weaving skills, which cheapens them in my opinion. Even then, they are less impactful than modern runes due to their limited power budget. This extends to the other trees as well. Meditation in particular was a "Take this if you're mana-hungry" kind of rune that didn't offer much of an actual choice. Tough skin was for every jungler and nothing else, while Recovery and Enchanted Armor were mostly based around your champion's interactions with the stats of either. (What they build and what their natural stat are) >"Let's take away their choices so that it's easier for us!" Having lots of little choices that don't matter is actually easier. It means they don't need to commit to anything having any real impact, and only have to worry about stacking up a ton of bonuses in one area, which they made highly inefficient. >"Nobody used some of those choices, why not just get rid of all of them instead of making them better or more meaningful options, less work for us and 'easier' for players anyways." That's more work for Riot. Think of balance in a literal sense. It's harder to maintain equilibrium against a given weight (balanced viability) when you have a small amount of large weights than it is with a large amount of small weights, due to the granularity. Likewise, it's easier to prevent overspecialization that could break things when you can limit the strength of the weights you are allowed to choose. It's easier for the players because you can't just choose the straight up _wrong_ thing anymore, for the most part, because you actually have the freedom of choice. >"If we make these choices so few and obvious, people won't get held up trying to figure out what they do best with because we already did it for them!" Letting you pick more runes/masteries doesn't actually give you more choices if more of the runes/masteries you had to choose from weren't a choice at all. Compared to before, the choices are less few and less obvious. You don't need to try to figure out what Champions do best with because you actually have freedom of choice now, which is exactly the opposite of "we already did it for them!" because you have multiple dissimilar runes to choose from of relatively equal power, the runes are doing what runes and masteries are supposed to do. They aren't meant to emphasize your strengths in a generic and spread-out fashion, because that's no different from combining with them with your champion's kit. They're meant to give the player a degree of customization to their character, and on that front I believe that they have succeeded, compared to previous attempts. You could argue that champions still have a limited number of keystones that emphasize their inherent strengths, but to that I reply, **_which_** strengths? Anyway, what I'm ultimately getting from this thread is a misattribution of discontent, but that's just my interpretation. Feel free to dispute me where you feel so compelled.
: Things that are not popularely known in LoL
> [{quoted}](name=Eternal Torment,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wMazn4xP,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-12-27T04:18:05.924+0000) > - Thresh lantern has a non-prioritized Hitbox animation. You can Block someone from escaping with a lantern by standing right ontop of it and it can't be clicked anymore. Same Thing with Turrets, if someone stands right behind the Turret's Base then you are unable to Click them and will instead click the Tower. This is actually a camera issue. As long as one target doesn't envelop another, (Thresh Lantern is considered terrain and thus has collision) all targets should be clickable at all times. Compare these two images of the same event pictured at different angles. https://i.imgur.com/vluPoL5.png https://i.imgur.com/c4AflYA.png While the images were taken to show why a skillshot didn't hit, (Zoe Q against Xerath) it's the same principle; moving the camera exposes the clickable area. It's just really awkward to do in the heat of the moment.
: "your main has no counters.." oh really? - list your counters game
I don't really have a main because Riot hates Sona and AP Fortune, but my highest mastery champion is {{champion:117}}. top lane Lulu that is. Support and mid Lulu is less fun. Her counters are champions with high sustained damage such as {{champion:268}}{{champion:114}}{{champion:240}}{{champion:157}}. Champions that lack any significant mobility such as {{champion:86}} {{champion:420}} are hopeless. Especially Illaoi. She's also vulnerable to fast junglers, capable of chasing her down in spite of her high safety, such as {{champion:120}} and {{champion:11}}. Do not, I repeat, do not ignore her auto-attacks. If she has a corrupting potion and builds a Nashor's tooth, she'll more or less immediately have the auto damage of an AD champion, _but with self-peel and cc_. You should expect to take E+Q and four autos any time you try to hard engage a Lulu if she has all of her abilities. Also never play Illaoi or you're going to lose. No, I mean it, it is the most one-sided lane matchup I've ever seen.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yrzen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UJOW1u4X,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-12-25T14:05:43.125+0000) > > Not really what they said. I take that at face value for cause and effect. Cause - Urf is extremely fun and games are more memorable and regardless of win or lose it leaves you feeling okay with either outcome. Effect - People realize how shit the balance is in normal and ranked games how snowbally crap has become and they don't want to go back Conclusion? Current game balance is a nightmare, preseason is garbage, game has been on a downward spiral for 2-3 seasons now and games are so one sided that when you get a taste for something sweet after the bitter taste of piss you've been given for 3 years it's alittle hard to go back.
...Why would a game mode that is distinctly and measurably less balanced as well as more snowball-prone cause one to realize the lack of balance and one-sidedness of a more balanced, less-snowball prone game mode? It seems like you're misattributing the reasons why people stop playing League in order to point the blame for not having regular URF at Riot.
GreenLore (EUW)
: We can have lore that explores who he is,where he came from,what he wants to do. And in general he is meant to get a VGU,so he might actually change drastically later on.
We can explore who he is, but ultimately we already know who he is: He's a spikeball armadillo. His lore jokes about how he's pretty much just an armadillo monster despite what people in-universe regard him as, invoking a sense of irony. He came from Shurima. He exists for some reason that presumably has no impact on his future and thus isn't important. What he wants to do doesn't seem relevant, as he currently has no complex motivations driving him, as that would detract from being ordinary. He's a character whose appeal lies in his simplicity and mundane ambiguity. (As opposed to mysterious ambiguity which is ironically mundane in fantasy settings) He doesn't really need to be embellished upon more than he already is, as doing so would detract from his identity. They took away the less serious parts of his lore (that he went on a date with a cactus) as a matter of keeping up the suspension of disbelief and added shades of mystique and heroism, (like other champions) but then parodies it by saying "At least one tribesman claims Rammus was simply sleeprolling." Rammus embodies his voice line: "ok." He's just an armadillo monster. I remember, after his lore update was announced, that there were threads begging Riot not to give him a tragic backstory or go over the top on anything, because he was a simplistic character by design and personality. I think it's a good thing in terms of his character, overall.
: Riot said in an AMA that they pretty much don't like that people play urf then take breaks from the game after binge playing it. Well maybe if your games were enjoyable instead of one sided stomps and the horrid state of balance then we wouldn't want to binge play urf to escape the absolute shit show this game is becoming. TL;DR Riot doesn't want you to have too much fun.
> [{quoted}](name=GodEmperorVeigar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UJOW1u4X,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-12-25T06:38:27.559+0000) > > Riot said in an AMA that they pretty much don't like that people play urf then take breaks from the game after binge playing it. Well maybe if your games were enjoyable instead of one sided stomps and the horrid state of balance then we wouldn't want to binge play urf to escape the absolute shit show this game is becoming. > > TL;DR Riot doesn't want you to have too much fun. Not really what they said. >It’s normal for new players to join League and for some longtime players to leave—this happens all the time. But when we turned on regular URF, it was different. In NA, for example, whenever we ran URF we’d usually see over twice as many longtime players leave the game compared to what we would’ve normally expected. >In other words, some people binged on URF, and then suddenly stopped playing League. And the size of the dropoff indicates that it’s not just people coming back for URF and then leaving afterwards. >...after we turn on URF, total games played go down, as do overall game hours. And they don’t recover for a long time, if ever.
: > [{quoted}](name=Vapor Wave Vibes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bf4UgKE6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-25T02:09:38.315+0000) > > Some champs are never meant to go further with lore, but I still do hope riot updates the lore of older champs. If someone makes a character with no potential of advancing in their development from their previous position, then they are ultimately not designed properly. Every character, every champion, has to to move from status A to B, otherwise whats the point of even having them exist. This is why League of Legends, the very MOBA this lore originated from, has become obsolote as the main center from which to expand this lore, and as such Riot need sto focus on creating a future game or media that will change that. You can only go far with a freemium MOBA game, there are so many better options to fix the lack of lore.
> [{quoted}](name=Tesla Effect,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bf4UgKE6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-12-25T02:19:09.306+0000) > > If someone makes a character with no potential of advancing in their development from their previous position, then they are ultimately not designed properly. Every character, every champion, has to to move from status A to B, otherwise whats the point of even having them exist. This is why League of Legends, the very MOBA this lore originated from, has become obsolote as the main center from which to expand this lore, and as such Riot need sto focus on creating a future game or media that will change that. > > You can only go far with a freemium MOBA game, there are so many better options to fix the lack of lore. {{champion:33}}
: Does Camille take Arcane Comet or Press the Attack?
Camille Keystone stats: https://i.imgur.com/eKykjpN.png (Click to view the full image)
Rioter Comments
Penns (EUW)
: They are still abusing a bug tho.. so..
Bug abuse is the act of going out of your way to exploit a bug. This is a fairly easy bug to not notice, in my opinion. It very easily triggers through completely mundane gameplay. Triggering an advantageous bug by accident is not punishable, and even if this bug was noticed, its activation is basically "Play Cassiopeia and harass the opponent at the beginning of lane". It is unreasonable to ask someone to avoid this bug. (For much the same reason restricting any tactical option is unreasonable. You can't just tell someone "don't invade our jungle" or "don't steal our baron", even if it does cause a bug.) Even then, whether Riot King Cobra noticed and reported it, or not, they are a QA Analyst, not someone who fixes bugs. If it doesn't get fixed quickly, they don't really have a choice but to trigger the bug in normal play, and it's not like they're the only aggressive Cassiopeia player out there. It's the same thing as when Ezreal players had no way to avoid triggering his Q bug when it applied Muramana twice. Not a single person got banned for using Ezreal during that time.
: In light of the recent front page post about the faker cassiopeia bug, Riot Cobra is abusing it too
You've gotta be kidding me. Take a look at any of the many comments on that video going on and on about the things that Jax did horribly wrong. That's not even what "fallacies" means. A logical fallacy is a flawed argument, like [saying Riot Cobra represents all of Riot](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/composition-division), [saying that because one Rioter triggered a glitch that all of Riot is intentionally leaving things unbalanced](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope), and saying that [a Cassiopeia main triggering a bug that has no special conditions besides playing Cassiopeia aggressively at level 1 (which she happens to be good at doing at level 1) is indicative of deliberate abuse of said bug](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause), or otherwise [implying that the burden of proof doesn't lie with you](https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof).
Sancre (EUW)
: Wasn't it said that they are fused due to Val giving his body up to save Kai's soul in the second comic? If only Kai had fallen Varus probably wouldn't have taken his corpse for himself And right now, They are Varus vessel for each other's sake, because they are both holding it, if only one of them fall, the other will be devoured too and Varus will probably reach some kind of final form similar to Rhaast and Aatrox's. Kayn can hold Rhaast down because he is a genius, a disciplined and talented martial artist and a spirit mage (shadow magic is spirit magic), its the combination of those things + Kayn's incredible ambition and self control that allows him to wrestle alone against a Darkin, Kayn is a Champion in the League of Legends, Kai and Val are two normal men, eficient ionian hunters, but by themselves, normal, even then, its amazing how they can keep a Darkin of devouring them with their wills and love for each other. You don't empathice with Varus' motives? 1. Had to start a war due to those silly humans threatening his world with their uncontrolled magic 2. Got defeated and fell into despair and rage when he was trapped for so long 3. He himself was the weapon used to cut the bridge between Darkin and Human world, in some way he was the one that damned his kin 4. His kin was nearly slain, only his beloved sister remains and some other dudes that they don't really know that well 5. When he finally manages to be free after so long, and its finally letting his rage out on some people instead of screaming trapped in the bottom of a well, 2 guys start to meddle inside his head, stopping him from getting the sweet revenge he has been waiting for so long I don't know you, but under these circumstances i would be extremelly pissed if i were to be Varus
1. He didn't have to start a war with humans. "Their reckless use of magic attracted the hunger of the darkin". The magic itself is reckless because it attracted the darkin. The darkin started the war, for no apparent reason. Territorial expansion maybe? Their world was never threatened. 2. A flat villain loses, what do I have to empathize with? 3. He was the one who put a stop to a pointless war that he fully supported. He was the one who sealed off the way for the darkin to invade, and he only did it against his will. 4. They are the invaders. They killed countless humans. Being stopped from continuing a violent slaughter isn't really conducive to sympathy. It's not like any of the darkin so far seem to be looking for peace; we've only been shown a race of war-hungry monsters. It's safe to assume that his kin were trying to kill everyone. They should only be in Runeterra instead of the darkin world if they were invading anyway. 5. Revenge on who? The people who defended themselves as he slaughtered countless innocents? Why should I sympathize with [this](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/d/da/Varus_AR_pr05.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20171201051144) guy, going on about how mortals should just die? The only point of sympathy is with Val and his vengeance against the Noxians, but what is there to take vengeance for when Kai is right there telling him not to?
Rioter Comments
Lugg (NA)
: The one thing I have noticed that people don't understand at all is the power of highly mechanical champs. Those champions pretty much HAVE to have overall win rates at 45% or they are too strong. Azir was the classic example of this, he had a 44% win rate and still HAD to be nerfed because the mains on him had win rates that were beyond ridiculous. Zoe falls exactly into this category, once she is mastered the way she is now, she will have like 80% win rates on mains. Having a basic ability that literally one shots enemies on a 3 second CD is as broken as can be. As for Ryze, he needs another rework, Rito just needs to simplify his kit because he is absolutely broken vs certain classes of champs and completely worthless vs the rest. Illaoi falls into that category as well. Galio just needs to be an AP bruiser version of someone like Garen or Darius. Good damage with some tankyness.
I think most people understand that until Sona or Janna is brought up. Anyways, we don't have enough data to parse experienced Zoe players and new ones, though you're welcome to check the win delta (the difference between the average (platinum) player and the best performing high elo players) of those other champions for yourself. Galio mains are still negative at 49% while Ryze and Lucian mains have 53%. To compare, the highest platinum+ win rates in the game are Xin Zhao (54.4%), Malzahar (54.3%) and Ezreal (54%). Mains of those champions have a 58.6%, 61.3% and 61% win rate respectively. The highest winrate of a champion, judged solely by their best performers, is Katarina with a 62.9% winrate. The largest win delta is Nunu, who normally has a 40.2% win rate but has a 56.9% win rate among his dedicated players. tl;dr 80% is crazy and I don't believe she could possibly have a winrate that high.
KazKaz (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=BeatzBoyFTW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sRzi6mdQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-28T12:48:26.874+0000) > > You mean the time where everyone automatically have 9 Armor Seals & 9 Magic Resist Scaling glyphs? That's a lot better than having NO bonus armour or MR and getting one shot by almost anything unless you're a tank.
It's a change for the better. Being forced to spend copious amounts of IP on runes as well as not having much choices in runes themselves was a pretty jank system. This is the downside of changing the system, we have to deal with terrible balance while everything gets tuned back into place over a few patches. This kind of stuff happens every preseason, at least they have an actually good reason to do it this time, and it's still not as bad as the last preseason.
Domovric (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Yrzen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BaAmE3wG,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-28T03:51:05.756+0000) > > Actually, Zoe has very low win-rates overall. So do galio, lucian and ryze. All of which DO NOT need buffs. Win rate doesn't mean shit, especially given that she is flavor of the month because of release, and the number of people playing her in the mid and support role who cant play the role, let alone the champion aren't going to be great for statistics. While I think that she's way too strong for how safe and easy she is, maybe riot could actually wait and gather some data for once rather than spinning the buff/nerf wheel immediately or leaving stuff till next rework
Win rate is one decent but not comprehensive measure of a champion's balance. It is also parsable by role and rank, and her win rate for Platinum+ players is above only Nunu and Galio, according to lolalytics. Win rates for specific roles show 45% in mid for Platinum+ players, below Jungle Nunu but above any roles for Ryze and Galio. Her win rate is still deflated from her fotm status, hence why the buffs are minor, though her perceived power is also inflated, since people don't seem to be used to her. She's safe in the sense that she has high range on her abilities, but her only real escape is flash. I'm personally of the opinion that Galio isn't doing all that well at the moment, (despite his very annoying kit) and Lucian and Ryze are somewhere below many others on a long list of champions that should get a _small_ boost after the preseason left its mark, but I suppose that's irrelevant. Her current win rate, compared to the release winrates of other champions, (based on [this](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19tsFGaY1Y8ZkrGeela4nynAGSSFjbnSzcabk8j_-pAs/edit#gid=0) doc) is closest to Illaoi, Jhin, Thresh, and Nami. (In that order, descending, with Jhin being the closest to her mid win rate and Thresh being closest to her overall winrate) One month after their release, their respective win-rates are 47%, 48%, 49%, and 44%, rounded up. All this data points to Zoe falling quite a ways short of "ridiculously broken", "hotfix, Thor sized nerf hammer, gut her into the ground already eligible". They are giving her very minor buffs because of the volatility of her data, and I believe that ignoring all of that and judging the state of her balance (and the actions Riot takes in response) based on personal conviction would be more "spinning the buff/nerf wheel immediately" than what they are currently doing.
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Yrzen

Level 117 (NA)
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