: See I had been playing since the diana blood moon event and noticed the decline myself but not nearly as much of what I have heard people talk about. Like I never even knew about old twisted treeline then looked at the original map desing and noticed way more effort in that than in current twisted treeline. Also I never knew about lava chamber until after it was cancelled.
Glad to hear newer players are starting to see riot's shift in design philosophy, but it's a shame it didn't happen years ago. I couldn't get into the pre-launch beta, but have played since the beginning, and I mean over a dozen games a day every day for years, but after season five's decline I started playing noticeably less. The general consensus among veterans is that season 2, 3, & 5 were the best. Sure they still had some glaring issues, but such problems were usually taken care of soon after notice and without much bias by changing what the actual problem was; back then I had a sneaking suspicion the esports scene would ruin the game and commented such a thing, but I didn't think it'd get this ridiculously spiteful. They've changed what used to be a group RTS into a 3rd person CallofDuty, and in recent times tried to make a mobile game to compensate, as far as I'm concerned it's a waste of time and resources for not only being lackluster, but denying too many controls with forced RNG to be considered a strategy game. Between the dozens of failed champion reworks, willful lack of support outside the summoner's rift, terribly thought-out thrice reworked mastery system, forced meta balancing, and obnoxious cash-grabbing; I doubt this game will stay at the top of any charts beyond next season, it's already been getting outclassed by a handful of other games that aren't even in the same genre, lol. For an example of what I mean by reworks, look at xerath, not even a year after release and he got reworked, removing everything that made him unique so he'd be another cookie-cutter spellcaster. This is back when dominion was still around, which was comparatively popular as aram, yet like twisted treeline got excluded from event rewards and hardly received any updates, then riot deleted it claiming the same lie that it wasn't popular enough to keep around; xerath's passive gave him armor equal to 15% of his AP, which made him a nice pocket pick to counter the physical bullies in middle lane (something we need more of now than we did then). And back when nearly every mage had the meaningful choice between spamming weak spells, stacking up 1k ability power for infrequent massive power, or somewhere inbetween with utility items. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v5MmuMJ2qU This was a few years after the rework, when they went back to do a sweeping graphical update to most of the roster, since then xerath has been by and large ignored, along with a few dozen other champs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZUeckDq2p0
: @riot this is so disgusting. This game has been downhill for 1-1/2 years now, basic analysis. Also a yes 310 MILLION dollar company in such a short time frame, but decreasing RAPIDLY... (as a Marketer, Yes I MEAN STUPID. LIKE UN REALISTICALLY STUPID LEVELS OF LOW IN REGARDS OF PROFIT to Prior years. *Work for you guys but you'll never decrypt me :) rumors in Talent acquisitions I will find a new better job/team until I'm ready to screw the whole organization over when it all comes down)a game based on "Free" that STILL can't figure out how to correctly balance champions. DONT PEOPLE HAVE TO LIKE THE GAME? OR PLAY FOR ABOVE AVERAGE TO SPEND MORE MONEY?. Based on those previous statistics,a leak here for you, the ABOVE average player, plays 3 average Summoners rift ranked games PER day, since 2017. For everyone or ANYONE who has YET to read this far I am NOT an Azir fan... This makes a prime example that you are SPLITTING Solo que from Professional or even Challenger+play. You're changing our Program/team to an unidentifiable team, full of dissatisfaction and New production with the 4 buckets... When where there be an equilibrium for PLAYERS. NOT THE STATE OF THE GAME. I have mentioned in plenty of meetings... Communities and generations CHANGE. this is BY FAR the longest most INACCURATE change for recovery for a company. I'm disgusted, and there is a reason, that I alone am looking a new organization. *PS* I'm drunk, however this has been in my thoughts for a long time* Congratulations for becoming the same Time frame as Dota.
"This game has been downhill for 1-1/2 years now" Sadly late to the party man, it's been declining for several years, it's just been progressively getting worse over the years; but good luck out there!
: Patch 9.16 notes
It's more interesting to see more varied changes, however the favoritism is still obnoxious.
: Anyone else notice they put more effort into adding more emotes and prestige skins then actually fixing how boring and streamlined the game currently is? Like they should honestly just revert that garbage by now to where you could build way more fun builds thanks to the customization of your runes and masteries like zed with a massive amount of lethality runes and thunderlords and laugh at how much pen you could build or jhin with deathfires touch and a ton of attack speed runes giving him a nice starting point and a funny amount of harass with the dot effect. Then there's thing like the lack of mr items compared to armor items when not counting hybrid resistance items thus allowing ap champs to roam rampant with their massive amounts of pen thanks to void staff in comparison to the weaker amount of pen from the last whisper items.
I've been noticing the game going downhill since their esports started back in season 3, it was gradual then but these last few years have been willfully and horrendously spiteful.
Çrøss (NA)
: This may look like you are just throwing your money at Riot but let me remind you, you are playing a COMPLETELY free game. You probably spend at least 1 hour a day playing League. That means that if you play for buy one of these and play for one week, you are spending less than ~75 cents a day on one. That number keeps going down as you play more and more. Yes, they are asking for some money, however, it's: A. Not very much, and B. Your choice to buy it or not. (It does not affect the game in any way, it's purely cosmetic). You did not have to pay the premium triple A game title price for the game. Spending $8.50 (which is much less than minimum wage in most states, this means it less than an hour of work) on the game is to show that you enjoy it, it isn't a money grab, it's to support Riot and their company. The dev. team and others have clearly put a lot of time and thought into these and they deserve credit for listening to the player base on wanting a achievement tracking (sort of thing). Now, I do recognize that they could have released a way to get this without paying RP, but, they even said, "Eternals were a huge undertaking to build. The system has a significant amount of new tech powering it to ensure that it works consistently and reliably. We also want to support and expand upon this feature for years to come, and with so many champions to build and maintain Eternals for, the only way we could justify supporting the feature was to attach an RP price to it." So you are not just buying a quick one-time-whoopdy-doo item, you are investing in the future of these things as well. They plan to continue to update them and maintain them -- which is taxing on a company and their employees. I just would like to reiterate. You are investing in your own time in which you play this game, not just throwing money at Riot. Both Riot and the player put work into the game, making and playing it. Without each other, Riot and the playerbase, this game wouldn't exist. So let's just ride these Eternals out and see what Riot does with them! I am personally excited to see exactly how they will work! {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
Nothing is free, sure you're not paying anything to riot to play, but you're paying the electric company to keep your computer running. Also burning time you could be using to better yourself instead of flinging salt online lol.
: /dev: State of Modes
Removing more modes without even enabling them for customs? Things like these are why the game is dying.
: Patch 9.14 notes
Glad to see some serious issues finally being addressed (excessive shielding, healing, mobility, invisibility), though wasn't expecting it to be via counter-picks, maybe it'll go over well maybe not, either way I'm guessing it'll just shift the meta a bit to include these buffed champions, but at least it could increase the variety of what's normally played. Balance seems a bit wonky for how harshly some are nerfed while others are barely nudged, again; but at least some obvious fixes are being implemented, well done! Ranged Top Laners . . . again I'll ask why didn't this include some problematic picks for actual players? {{champion:150}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:67}}
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 28
"Speaking of top lane we're also doing some work on a few champs who sometimes go top bringing a combination of powerful AA based damage output and good disengage." How are gnar, quinn, & vayne not on this list?
: Don't let their "hype" for this new game mode distract you from the fact that most people have been asking for clash to come back and they have given us almost no updates. This game mode may have a good amount of strategy, but it's also a lot of RNG. Why don't you guys work on clash? A game mode that was extremely hyped and offered casual players a competitive environment. Guess we'll just keep getting more skins, and more nonsense game modes instead.
Dominion was substantially more popular back in the day, yet they still removed it.
Rioter Comments
: But those should be two totally different teams within Riot.
Indeed, but the higher ups still dictate what news is released.
d0riyah (NA)
: Is anyone else's PBE client absolutely shitting itself?
It hasn't let me into aram games ever since the client change went through, and nothing but silence from support, but yeah it's been buggier than usual.
: What Happened to the Trials
https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/riot-official Still nothing, if anything they've been focusing on esports, again.
: Does anybody know any really good long lasting single player games?
Axion Verge & Cavestory can take quite a while if you go for the hardcore achievements, but have a neat enough environment and story for a casual platformer combat playthrough. The first and third Bioshock games are pretty good FPS with bunches of lore to look for. Darkest Dungeon is rough fun for a turn based survival combat horror, quite lovecraftian and plenty of mods available if you want tweaks. The Just Cause series rides the line of silly and serious for being a one man army while being in a sandbox of collectables and locations. Sniper Elite 3 & 4 are unexpectedly addicting if you want strategy shooters under tension. Poly Bridge is a great management puzzle game if you want to sit back and think, rarely has some physics fumbles for a laugh.
: Why does riot rework champs if they are going to make them feel entirely different to play
They used to do it because of the champion in question either failing to function (lissandra, nidalee & skarner) or were oppressive (fiora, poppy & soraka). But now days has been using the excuse of 'modernizing' while replacing older champions with new ones (galio, kayle & swain), sometimes to remove a counter to a favorite champion, sometimes because an idea gets handed to the balance team instead of the design team lol.
: Jungling against Nasus should be the easiest thing in the world for junglers, and yet they struggle.
Probably because riot undid the nerfs to marksmen items some time back, so the right-click overlords are back to deciding games again, or perhaps because the jungler thinks they can win the game before nasus scales up.
: [OFF TOPIC] This is what the English alphabet looks like when it's actually in alphabetical order
: But using the logic you're applying when you say "trying to hold off as a late game champion only works if the enemy team fails hard" is the same as saying you dont believe there should be champions who are stronger in the early game and champions who are stronger in the late game and what you believe is every champion should be equally powerful as every other champion throughout all stages of the game respective to their roles (assuming their kit and build paths are the same obviously by the term equally powerful i dont mean a full tank maokai is going to do as much dmg as an full ad adc with 100% crit chance and 2.0 atk speed). Aside from everything i just said let's assume everything you said is correct and that they buff tanks so they can bullied as hard in lane. Why would anyone play an early game champ then? If you're going to scale better than them and you've been "protected" by the stats added to your champions. In another way im asking whats the point of playing an early game champ who falls off in the mid to late game if they dont have that advantage in the early game to snowball?
No that's not remotely what I'm saying. Both early game champions and late game champions should be viable, for hopefully obviously different strategies. RIot's sped up the game so much that the majority of late game picks couldn't function, but instead of slowing it down they instead buffed their early game, reducing their vulnerability while homogenizing the playing field into a 'snowball or be useless' design. Just look at the fixes they did for marksmen's last hitting, as well as scaling for veigar and sion. "and that they buff tanks so they can bullied as hard in lane" Wait what? That doesn't only make little sense bu it's already something that happens, or were you trying to type 'bully' instead, because that makes more grammatical sense. I don't want tanks to bully, that's what juggernauts are for; I'm saying they're too frail, and struggle to farm to keep up significant durability. Nautilus used to be able to wave clear without being a bully, yeah he was annoying to duel but he couldn't single-handedly kill you in any reasonable time either. To answer your question, it was strategy. Years ago before riot cut game times in half ontop of doubling gold gains, it was commonplace to pick early game champions against late game ones in order to shut out the game before time and scaling changed the status quo. This game used to be a team based RTS before esports took off in season 3, and since season 5 riot's gone about turning it into a third person CoD, there's hardly any strategy anymore except hope your seizure is faster than your opponents' in this kill or be killed design philosophy. Things like this are why veterans say the game is dying; it's not what we knew the game to be good for, and we can see it's turned into another fad for new players.
: thats why I refer to these "fundaMETAlists" Like a religious cult. They will anyone who doesnt blindly follow thier hivemind "banned for trolling" and water down the term. Ultimately throwing games because "you are not allowed to build that! You are not allowed to play X champ in Y role" They act like they are the SOLE deciders, the gate-keepers, and the final decision makers on what champions are pre-approved for what role. You cant play anything unless its been checked, doublechecked, Pre-approved, and signed off (in triplicate and with proper forms filled out) Otherwise they will report you for "trolling" for not adhering to meta. They have turned the "Meta" into a cult! and If you do not follow it they will burn you alive like its the salem witch trials.
I agree there and that's why I referred to them as maniacs since they're quick to be hostile towards anyone going outside the cookie cutter, but I like that 'fundaMETAlists' tag more XD I'd say calling them a cult is a bit extreme, but then again it's something riot's been enforcing for years too . . .
: minions have had a notorious time with bugs in LoL. Just look at current morde, most of his 100s of bugs involve his r minion.
Hell they're outright removing his pet mechanic he's had since release in the upcoming rework, which looks like it'll still be a balancing nightmare besides buggy.
: > [{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=woUVXptk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-05T08:10:36.419+0000) > > There's a bunch more than just these few that were limited time, but they're already marginally obtainable from chests, I've gotten a few that I didn't obtain during events after the fact. I'm surprised they were available from chests - are you sure they were limited? Aside from that, it'd be pretty hard to score these specifically from chests; As you said, marginally obtainable :')
> [{quoted}](name=Riven The Exile,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=woUVXptk,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-06-05T16:39:39.193+0000) > > I'm surprised they were available from chests - are you sure they were limited? Aside from that, it'd be pretty hard to score these specifically from chests; As you said, marginally obtainable :') https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Summoner_icon I've gotten the following icons out of chests, which as far as I'm aware aren't normally available anymore; most I'm sure are limited via events I don't remember meeting the requirements for, despite living through them. *shrug* Championship Riven KDA Project Poro Snowdown Battlecast Poro 2016 World Championship
: You clearly haven't heard of Singles Awareness Day. Also, don't compare sexuality (not your choice) vs being in a relationship (hopefully of your choice). People ARE trying to shift society in many ways beyond sexuality and that includes all those other examples - especially since those primarily affect women (especially single ones) and minorities. Nice try, but you might want to stop arguing in your echo chamber.
No I've heard of it, but as I said before it's more or less ignored in comparison; you gave the best example yourself, single awareness DAY, meanwhile it's lgbt MONTH. Also don't assume I don't know the difference, they both are thrown hand in hand across the vast majority of media regardless of situation, and it was the most obvious parallel instead of reaching for some obtuse but more accurate example that might've flown over your head anyway. Society doesn't always move in good directions either, just look at Germany before WW2, so stop pushing your agenda on those who don't want it, that's all I ask. In my echo chamber? I see all the lbgt's repeating the same thing here lol, don't get a rash from your imaginary high horse.
Ulanopo (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=sBuh6hfG,comment-id=001300010001,timestamp=2019-06-05T06:34:07.715+0000) > > *Cough Cough* > > Marxism; the doctrine that the state throughout history has been a device for the exploitation of the masses by a dominant class, that class struggle has been the main agency of historical change, after the period of the dictatorship of the proletariat, be superseded by utilizing socialism including the labor theory of value, dialectical materialism, the class struggle, and dictatorship of the proletariat until the establishment of a classless society. > > > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/kcgKiexE-blizzard-bans-controversial-ok-symbol?comment=001d > > Because undermining what has continued the survival of the human race, for the sake of screwy egotistical minorities is such a wholesome idea huh. > Why does being in a relationship warrant it's own holiday (valentines)? What about the singles then? There's always been a subtle stigma against straights that aren't in a relationship, whether it be drifters/partyers/unstable employment, yet you don't see them trying to drastically shift society for attention. Mostly because being gay carries significantly more risk than minor social disapproval. LGBT+ people are routinely the targets of violence and discrimination.
Pfffhahahaha, immigrants to other counties have more risk and social discrimination problems than any gays do.
: > [{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TQbkUZP0,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-05T08:21:33.142+0000) > > It'd still be a deciding rush item for most assassins middle lane. depends on stats + effect. dont downplay a good suggestion of new items and without saying what item is and what champion mid dismiss it. idk what to say because ur arguments are quite baseless. what assassin mid? What is the item we are discussing?
Baseless? Sounds like you haven't been around a while nor done any searching. I'm predicting not downplaying, there's been several times over the years when an item gets buffed (or multiple alternatives nerfed) to the point it becomes a point of contention, where it's make or break who gets access to it first, and this race often decides the victor. The old memes of 'league of cleavers' and so forth are grounded in such events, though in more recent times it's been the ardent censer and infinity edge metas. Any high mobility burst damage melee champion, as far as I'm concerned basically plays like an assassin. An item offering significant armor and attack damage could become such a glaring issue for any AD assassin, in middle lane as well as the jungle, since the monsters only deal physical damage; if the new item's effect was pitiful or nonexistent then it'd be more balance-able.
: Mordekaiser and his cape
Glad I'm not the only one that's distracted by his knee length cape.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: Those are the stats for their best roles, top for Riven, mid for Zed, not both in the same role. If you want, you can look up the stats for Zed top and Riven mid yourself.
Figured I'd double check since you didn't mention it initially, wasn't sure if both running jungle was a new meta or something lol
: > [{quoted}](name=Done25,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TQbkUZP0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-05T05:43:22.767+0000) > > Riot down want an AD+Armor item outside of GA for Marksmen. melee only restriction
It'd still be a deciding rush item for most assassins middle lane.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: Currently she's not stomping anything in lower elos, quite the opposite so the nerf was bigger than expected. Her win rate dropped across the board. Favouritism exists, but thy name is Zed not Riven. Accordion to U.GG, here are the win, pick and ban rates for both in all elos (in that order, so I don't have to say next to each what they are): Iron Riven: 45.07%, 5.8%, 2.1% Zed: 50.22%, 15.8%, 45% Bronze Riven: 45.39%, 6.1%, 2.8% Zed: 49.62%, 16.2%, 51.8% Silver: Riven: 47.02%, 7.3%, 4.1% Zed: 49.67%, 14.4%, 57.9% Gold Riven: 48.85%, 8.8%, 6.3% Zed: 50.2%, 12.7%, 59.6% Platinum Riven: 50.44%, 10.1%, 9.6% Zed: 50.78%, 11.9%, 55% Diamond: Riven: 51.56%, 11%, 13.9% Zed: 50.71%, 10.8%, 48.2% Master: Riven: 51.06%, 10.6%, 19% Zed: 54.08%, 9.4%, 24.7% Grandmaster: Riven: 51.15%, 9.3%, 19.5% Zed: 53.6%, 8.7%, 21.7% Challenger: Riven: 60%, 9.9%, 21.8% Zed: 35.9%, 8%, 15.4% And in a thread about Riven, a guy replied that Zed's stats are fine, nothing unusual but Riven still is too strong yet she only sees a positive win rate starting plat, while Zed, due to his play rate, can be said to only see a negative win rate in Challenger. The stats were taken last night.
Win rate is only part of the trio, there's also the victory probability over time scale to consider, but even all that taken together doesn't paint the whole picture. Favoritism in general has been geared towards physical champions, while I'd agree zed's been ignored more than her in recent patches, what's he doing in top lane when he's more successful middle? Otherwise why is riven being played middle with the expectations to match him?
: Bringing back limited icons
There's a bunch more than just these few that were limited time, but they're already marginally obtainable from chests, I've gotten a few that I didn't obtain during events after the fact.
: > [{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xvseJQb3,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2019-06-04T18:50:35.237+0000) > > Granted, but I'd add part of the problem is that the one retaliating can be the only one getting punished, when the instigator should be as well for deliberately provoking. Then people need to understand that account status is a thing when it comes to punishments being handed out. Not everyone is on the same level of how close they are to punishment. So a retaliator can also go without punishment, while the instigator could be punished.
How close they are to punishment shouldn't dictate whether they get another mark on their account regardless if it is the one crossing the threshold. While you're agreeing with me, that's not always the case, which is why I brought it up.
: > [{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ceBT8tM5,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-06-04T19:06:35.526+0000) > > I think you forgot yasou and gnar, lol. I'm so used to him being banned, I genuinely forgot he existed I also dont think gnars too bad, but that's just me, I know alotta people dislike him as well
> [{quoted}](name=Jimmy Rustles,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ceBT8tM5,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-04T22:08:26.031+0000) > > I'm so used to him being banned, I genuinely forgot he existed > > I also dont think gnars too bad, but that's just me, I know alotta people dislike him as well That's happened to me for a handful of champions lol. I was debating listing kled, but between him and gnar I usually see gnar being more of a chore to deal with.
Galiö (NA)
: Well the CDR would be effected on that line and it would be less mana for the champs thag it's already good on. But I figured the half/half tenacity would be nice for those champions that wanna get on you and stick, so it could kind of be a slight buff overall. Banshees buff can be nice, (most) MR items are mediocre or too expensive and hard to work onto a build.
I mean in general, since the beginning the number of items with cdr has doubled. And that's the problem I was getting at, some champions that heavily use trinity force are already an issue for how fast they can get in your face with massive damage, their primary counter being crowd control; and changing the sheen items to offer resistance to that weakness, would make them rather unstoppable short of nuking them first. Also like to see mercury tread's nerf be overturned though.
: Like how Riot loves em' some Ezreal and Lux skins after skins after skins?
> [{quoted}](name=Itz D Exorcist ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kI5mmKWz,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-04T19:40:16.739+0000) > > Like how Riot loves em' some Ezreal and Lux skins after skins after skins? Yup, the most obvious examples anyway, there's also lore but I doubt most people pay attention to what gets retcon-ed in order to service popular champions; most are balance related though, some of which are more subtle like how soon which champions get bugfixed.
: He's immune to CC while charging the current ult though. That means if melee champions move in to AA him, he'll scoop them up as well. Plus the charge is only like one second.
Immune ONLY to crowd control, that doesn't stop him from dying, and if his passive revive is popped during the charge it puts both on cooldown without moving any enemies. The majority of melee champions also have poke to hit him without endangering themselves, as his catch range is only melee range.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: Well, I think the issue with "vulnerability" Windows is how vulnerable a champ is during that window. For example the Riven nerf in 9.10. It's considered a strong nerf at high elo because people are capable punishing her when her E is in Cool down, but in lower elos it's insignificant because people aren't able to. Also look at Yorik, a good while ago he was hard nerfed because low elo didn't knew how to play vs his ghouls even tho he was at the time only good in low elo, after the nerf, his D+ stats were less than 1% pick rate with a 46-48% win rate. So counter play would also come to player knowledge, if 1v1 high elos can punish something, should it be nerfed just because lower elos don't know how/don't gave the mechanics?
Interesting question, and given your example of yorik then the answer should be yes, but riven along with several others continues to stomp low levels without much adjustment. Favoritism is something riot's always done (look up leesin's history), but the Why they are has changed over the years from being pet projects to what looks the coolest on television.
: Rito afraid of the spooky tank meta We must ensure that there are never two tanks in a game 5 Fighters we must have Give them the damage we must Say we buff the tanks But buff their counters too
Their counters have already been strong for seasons, hence why people keep pointing out how weak tanks are, they hardly can get a rotation of spells off before dying. But you're right about riot's vendetta against strategic gameplay.
Tioym (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R2haQYME,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-05-06T15:21:29.162+0000) > > Have you played back when tanks had no damage and before cdr was everywhere? > They get ignored in the teamfight, everyone would deliberately just dogpile the backrow to kill the enemy carries first, then proceed to shove through the towers; because the tanks couldn't contribute enough to be a threat, nor have enough output to waveclear. Similarly it also railroaded tanks to being support, as most tanks couldn't farm fast enough to keep up with most fighters top lane and jungle. > However I agree they haven't needed more damage this season since they already got such buffs last season. I Agree, Tanks do need damage to function in Solo-Q but I've said it again and again, they do too much damage for how tanky they are. At this point you can either nerf their AP Ratios OR Reduce the Base Stats that make them so tanky even when they dont build any defensive item.
Then the same should be done with assassins and marksmen, regarding their items that is; they have more survivability in offensive items than tanks get from defensive ones, that's a game design flaw. If damage across the board was cut, then tank items wouldn't need to be buffed and such hybrid items could be nerfed back into line.
: > [{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fTi3V1jM,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-05-06T15:38:07.116+0000) > > Indeed like yasou she has a built-in damage amp, though requires micromanagement to use it. > But I'd say the problem is mostly due to having multiple dashes, being resourceless, and having a shield that scales with attack damage; as well as several offensive items offering utility and durability, making her deceptively difficult to punish once she gets rolling. The problem is it doesn't require micromanagement. If she didn't get 3 stacks of it, it would require micromanagement. Riven can use her first two Qs just to reach you and she still keeps half the damage components it grants. It's super funny to me that she gets the "C-c-c-combo!" status given that she isn't comboing. She's mashing a button to close distance and not trading that much for it. Riven is a pretty high skill-ceiling champion. But the skill floor is way too low.
> [{quoted}](name=Myth of Demons,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fTi3V1jM,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-05-06T19:15:40.858+0000) > > The problem is it doesn't require micromanagement. If she didn't get 3 stacks of it, it would require micromanagement. Riven can use her first two Qs just to reach you and she still keeps half the damage components it grants. It's super funny to me that she gets the "C-c-c-combo!" status given that she isn't comboing. She's mashing a button to close distance and not trading that much for it. > > Riven is a pretty high skill-ceiling champion. But the skill floor is way too low. Well put, and I agree there, particularly since death's dance and spear of shojin are so good for her.
: What game are you playing? Yi and vayne will not be in top lane and yi doesn't clear that much faster vs a tank jg in fact nunu has much faster clear and can easily steal camps from him. So to answer your question tanks can easily out farm them. Also that has nothing to do with anything.
Vayne is niche top lane along with ryze; yi not so much, but tanks used to be viable in the jungle years ago. And you must be playing yi poorly if you can't outfarm most tanks; but an even weaker excuse to dodge the point.
: > [{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fTi3V1jM,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-05-06T15:38:07.116+0000) > > Indeed like yasou she has a built-in damage amp, though requires micromanagement to use it. > But I'd say the problem is mostly due to having multiple dashes, being resourceless, and having a shield that scales with attack damage; as well as several offensive items offering utility and durability, making her deceptively difficult to punish once she gets rolling. Then why can a Riven get rolling??Do you know that with same segment, Riven is hard to fight against almost all champions on top?? If you get killed , the only word to say is you sucks, how can you be rolled by a Riven? Whatsmore, Riven players payed thousands of games to practice this champion, shouldn't they get rewarded??You think a player with 2000 games expierence cannot beat you idots with only 50 games is acceptable??
> [{quoted}](name=callmetopkiler,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=fTi3V1jM,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-05-07T12:08:26.115+0000) > > Then why can a Riven get rolling??Do you know that with same segment, Riven is hard to fight against almost all champions on top?? If you get killed , the only word to say is you sucks, how can you be rolled by a Riven? > Whatsmore, Riven players payed thousands of games to practice this champion, shouldn't they get rewarded??You think a player with 2000 games expierence cannot beat you idots with only 50 games is acceptable?? Like yasou she only needs an item or two to negate her weaknesses depending on the matchup, and even an idiot can exploit extra safety-nets to bury an opponent; and even if they die as well that's sandbagging the more competent opponent so her team can beat them easier later. As an offensive champion she has a much easier time farming than most, unless you're playing a marksmen or another duelist melee to keep her constantly pinned down, you're racing the clock before she starts winning trades. Yes I'd say the more experience player should generally win, but the problem is when the kit has too much reward for how little risk it has.
: There is one, it's called the rainbow poro icon. Considering that nowhere in the world is it frowned upon, let alone illegal, to be straight, where as there are still places in the world where lgbta+ people can be legally murdered or tortured(only recently has the US been pushing for conversion camps, which is a fancy word for kidnapping people and torturing them until they say anything to get it to stop,to be made illegal),why do straight people need to be celebrated _more?_ Seriously, go to any romance section in books or movies and bask in the hundreds of entries depicting a man almost kissing a woman. Meanwhile there are people in the government who want to take away my rights. There have been attempts to amend the legal definition of a hate crime to not include lgbta+ people, to make it legal for me to be fired because I'm gay, and only recently has gay marriage been legalized. If you want straight pride, _take it._ You can walk down the street hand in hand or take your SO out to dinner anywhere in the world without fear. You can marry and have kids, both biological and adopted, without jumping through hoops or having people oppose you. Everything we are striving for you already have, so why does being stright, which is the default for humanity and is never discriminated against, need to be brought to people's attention?
*Cough Cough* Marxism; the doctrine that the state throughout history has been a device for the exploitation of the masses by a dominant class, that class struggle has been the main agency of historical change, after the period of the dictatorship of the proletariat, be superseded by utilizing socialism including the labor theory of value, dialectical materialism, the class struggle, and dictatorship of the proletariat until the establishment of a classless society. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/kcgKiexE-blizzard-bans-controversial-ok-symbol?comment=001d Because undermining what has continued the survival of the human race, for the sake of screwy egotistical minorities is such a wholesome idea huh. Why does being in a relationship warrant it's own holiday (valentines)? What about the singles then? There's always been a subtle stigma against straights that aren't in a relationship, whether it be drifters/partyers/unstable employment, yet you don't see them trying to drastically shift society for attention.
: > [{quoted}](name=Itz D Exorcist ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fvkTB0GF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-31T07:48:11.266+0000) > > Riot will never-ever bring back anything remotely tank related because the wide majority of players these days are Call of Duty fanboys that just want to see fights, damage and year long stuns that relate to 20 min stomps. This game exists because a mod got really popular on WCIII and it inspired some devs in college to see if they couldn't have an entire game dedicated towards the custom map. A decade later and the strategy aspect of the game is being continually stripped to: clear waves asap look for harass on opponent if low enough <1s all-in else roam and see if a teamfight doesn't erupt I get Riot doesn't want people to afk sustain/powerfarm in their lanes for 25 minutes (unless it is Kayle for some reason) before people finally group and maybe one team finally breaks 5 kills, but this is way too far in the other direction.
A sad truth; wish their esports would fall through so the tryhard fans would move onto another game, maybe the devs would change it back into the team strategy game it started out as.
: You never know. If it is a skin of a champion that gets a VGU that skin you didn't want might become something cool.
If I didn't like the champion before the visual upgrade, I doubt I will afterwords unless it's a rework of their kit, but that's just me.
: {{champion:84}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:142}} Are way ahead of tahm for being worst thing created
> [{quoted}](name=Jimmy Rustles,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ceBT8tM5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-02T16:36:02.171+0000) > > {{champion:84}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:67}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:142}} > > Are way ahead of tahm for being worst thing created I think you forgot yasou and gnar, lol.
: "actually tanks are weak in lane and typically lose most lane match ups. " I said this in my post. "then they are so far behind their mid game is bad" But if you cs as well and dont give the bruiser an early snowball you'll be on an even playing field because most bruisers fall off with a few exceptions who are weaker in lane when they scale well i.e. trynd and jax. And if the bruiser doesnt snowball the tank is much more effective in teamfights. "mid game is where tanks are suppose to shine, and "fall off ' later cuz of carries /damage out scaling." Hyper tanks such as mundo and rammus can become really strong in the late game even able to 1v1 carries but this game isnt about 1v1s its about team play, making a tank still more effective than a bruiser in the late game as long as they can soak up the initial burst of a team (which is the tanks job and they usually have the kit complete that). Examples include: shen W, voli passive, rammus W, malphite passive, in tank galio cases his W, sejuani has her armor you need to break first (i dont play sej but i think its her passive), maokai has his invunerability on his W and his sustain on his passive with the dispositioning to stop/stun targets for a moment and so on. "so if tanks are oppressed so hard in lane they dont get to that mid game spike, and then just a liability for the most part the entire game." Since this was based on the other claims which we talked about i dont think i need to say anything into this.
Have you tried farming as a cc tank while playing against a lane bully? Have you tried being a front-liner for your team when you're a couple items behind? Have you tried keeping enemies locked down when they have more survivability? Tanks used to be good mid-game, but ever since riot's balancing fumble years ago combined with their esports obsession, that doesn't exist anymore. Snowballing is easy and insanely powerful; and trying to hold off as a late game champion only works if the enemy team fails hard, but by then multiple anti-tank items are in play to keep them useless. The poster has the right idea of buffing tanks directly, as their items could again be abused by other classes, and we all know how that's settled.
: Does Riot hold grudges?
Yes but not like you're thinking, more like reverse favoritism towards a handful of champions, it's changed over the years but it's still there.
: there is an issue with that logic tho by making everything over powered you break the game and by nerfing everything across the board matches become dull/stretched out that is why they change what they do, when they do
Cutting the game time in half for a spectacle of 3rd person CoD was a mistake of balancing by the way.
: The thing is that retaliation is not defense. You being toxic back to them is not a defense, it's retaliation. Self defense in this instance is denial and muting. Not "deny and attack back", just "deny". Not "Mute and keep flaming them to get back at them for flaming you", just "Mute". And specifically about denying...It does nothing anyways. And don't repeat what they said. Self defense is using the reasonably smallest amount of aggression needed to remove yourself from danger. If a bully attacks you, you're supposed to put forward enough of a fight to get them off of you **then leave**, not keep hitting them after they're already off of you. In League, the minimum reasonable force from you is to mute them, and any court that took a case like this remotely seriously would agree.
Granted, but I'd add part of the problem is that the one retaliating can be the only one getting punished, when the instigator should be as well for deliberately provoking.
: She's weaker around mid-game to compensate for the early and late strength. Quite a few champs are like this, actually. Kayle used to be like that (She had a lot of early strength due to range in toplane, but didn't have enough of anything to survive in mid-game), and Kindred's like that as well.
Midgame doesn't matter when she's snowballing from early game, and by the time behind opposition catches up she's reached late game power. If she's supposed to bully then she should fall off, if she's supposed to carry then she better be weak early, if she's to be best during mid-game then she'd be a generalist; she's not the only champion to cross the no-weak-point threshold either, but she's got a few of the most obnoxious traits for a marksmen.
: The thing is...How do you encourage AP assassins to go with these items instead of regular mage items? And how do you discourage mages from going with these items? AP-users in general don't have a lot of incentive to go with other things. ADCs and AD Divers are both AD-users, but they build vastly differently because they do different things and require different stats. Mages and AP assassins, in most instances, just want to burst, and they both want mpen and AP for that, while picking up CDR and a single mana item (for most). They want the same stats and they do the same things, so how do you encourage them to not build the same items? And keep in mind - Locking off items from certain champions isn't an option. Riot doesn't like doing that and it feels like shit because even if a certain item would be **really great for this instance** you're physically not allowed to get it. And, specifically about the high base values...what stops them from going full tank then?
"ADCs and AD Divers are both AD-users, but they build vastly differently because they do different things and require different stats." Not always as some champions can easily flex into other roles based on how their kit functions; remember lucian can abuse black cleaver thanks to his passive & dash, missfortune benefits well from lethality thanks to her ricochet shot and attack speed steroid, irealia and nocturne can use essense reaver for sustain, ext. There's always overlap but I don't think it's an issue, as long as synergies are considered beforehand.
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ZT Xperimentor

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