AntiSJW (NA)
: I never said his only counter point is play off your jungler--- thats an assumption and a bad one. Yes being circumstantial doesn't mean balance but when the previous argument addresses him as if he never suffers from situational strengths as reason to nerf then its a pretty good response Your counter argument about ignite is a bad argument to call mine a bad argument lol The point was in relation to above ^^ That is to say there are champions with more mobility, survivability, damage, and overall team utility than yasuo. You can't use that as a reason to nerf him alone. I don't think his winrate or utility across all elos justifies him being "too strong". Ban rate is because he's annoying and popular so you're likely to see him a lot. You haven't really said anything to refute the large amount of typing I've done.
> [{quoted}](name=AntiSJW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AHtzRAeR,comment-id=000000000001000000000001000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-06T06:16:23.256+0000) > > I never said his only counter point is play off your jungler--- thats an assumption and a bad one. On your first post, your answer was literally "Ok jump him in numbers or take the 5v4 against his team elsewhere." I don't mean to treat it as the crux of your whole argument, but this isn't really counterplay within Yasuo's kit. > Yes being circumstantial doesn't mean balance but when the previous argument addresses him as if he never suffers from situational strengths as reason to nerf then its a pretty good response > > Your counter argument about ignite is a bad argument to call mine a bad argument lol The point was in relation to above ^^ > That is to say there are champions with more mobility, survivability, damage, and overall team utility than yasuo. Of course it's a bad argument, that's the point; it follows the same logic you gave me to work with. > You can't use that as a reason to nerf him alone. I don't think his winrate or utility across all elos justifies him being "too strong". Ban rate is because he's annoying and popular so you're likely to see him a lot. I'm glad Riot disagrees with your philosophy of nerf-immunity based on winrate, otherwise I'd still have to ban Akali on this patch :S
AntiSJW (NA)
: Frustrating doesn't mean broken
> [{quoted}](name=AntiSJW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AHtzRAeR,comment-id=000000000001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-04T21:42:58.805+0000) > > Frustrating doesn't mean broken Not saying it does.
AntiSJW (NA)
: All of your answers aren't reasons as to why "he's broken" - Your inability or rather frustration with learning how to play against him as a mage doesn't make the champion broken. He has strengths and weaknesses- too bad if the strengths frustrate you personally. Get better at calling/coordinating with your jg if you really can't handle the match up yourself. Circumstantial means not broken, not constant, and not overpowered. He's been gutted repeatedly compared to his earlier version. You're really just making a complaint that relates more to you and not the "rebalancing" needed for the champ in general. Lastly, there are far "worse" champions in the game who will own your whole team way worse than a yas could Not like you addressed that or what it means to have circumstantial power
> [{quoted}](name=AntiSJW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AHtzRAeR,comment-id=0000000000010000000000010001,timestamp=2019-02-04T21:42:17.623+0000) > > All of your answers aren't reasons as to why "he's broken" - Your inability or rather frustration with learning how to play against him as a mage doesn't make the champion broken. He has strengths and weaknesses- too bad if the strengths frustrate you personally. Get better at calling/coordinating with your jg if you really can't handle the match up yourself. If a champion's counterplay is "coordinate with your jungler", I think that says more about the champion than it does about me. It's like you're assuming that he can't coordinate with his own jungler, or that your jungler having to focus your lane doesn't come at the opportunity cost of pressure elsewhere on the map. > Circumstantial means not broken, not constant, and not overpowered. He's been gutted repeatedly compared to his earlier version. You're really just making a complaint that relates more to you and not the "rebalancing" needed for the champ in general. Being circumstantial doesn't inherently make something balanced, and being less powerful than a previous version doesn't automatically make something not powerful. > Lastly, there are far "worse" champions in the game who will own your whole team way worse than a yas could Flash is a stronger/more popular summoner spell than ignite, ergo ignite did not need nerfs. Bad argument. > Not like you addressed that or what it means to have circumstantial power We aren't arguing over whether his power is circumstantial or not, the only argument made in reference to it is that being circumstantial doesn't inherently balance an ability or effect.
Emo Twink (OCE)
: Hi, I quickly skimmed this mid assignment break and just wanted to add that my complaint about his E increasing dmg is just. it's completely unnessasary. Not broken but just a completely unneeded feature, like Irelia's extra dmg to shields or something. Just adds a lil bit to his already good waveclear but thats it. Edit: Just to put this in, it only just adds how unnecessary some parts of his kit are, or how overloaded he is.
> [{quoted}](name=YoRHa 9S,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AHtzRAeR,comment-id=0000000000010000000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-04T08:03:25.774+0000) > > Hi, I quickly skimmed this mid assignment break and just wanted to add that my complaint about his E increasing dmg is just. it's completely unnessasary. Not broken but just a completely unneeded feature, like Irelia's extra dmg to shields or something. Just adds a lil bit to his already good waveclear but thats it. > > Edit: Just to put this in, it only just adds how unnecessary some parts of his kit are, or how overloaded he is. Gotcha. I agree, regardless of the tuning on the damage numbers, it really is just bloat on the ability text. Hell, his E could do no damage, it'd still be frustrating. I agree though, if it does need to do damage, just having a flat consistent amount would be better. In any case though, it doesn't even scratch the surface of why the ability is frustrating.
AntiSJW (NA)
: He has a high skill cap, low health pool (raka has more base health lvl 13 for ex), and his durability is circumstantial. Windwall is not broken, its just annoying because its one of the best abilities in the game. However it doesn't do damage, has a high cd, doesn't increase in size until you level it, and without it he wouldn't provide much to any team. His Ult is already extremely situational compared to others who can just click theirs off cd. E is situational and doesn't even have max damage off the first dash Q and auto attacks come out to relatively the same dmg later, and the cc is on a charge system. Shield is small actually, refreshes only on movement, so usually it feels overpowered because you jumped him while it was up, then he ulted super far to another target to counter your damage. It only last for 1.5s I believe, so refreshing it with ult jump is pretty crucial to participating in any team fight. Otherwise you sit on the sidelines, getting less XP and gold. Also, Yas doesn't get rights to the minions in a team fight. I can't tell you how many games my mobility gets halved because all my dashable targets are blown up by allies and all of a sudden I only have flash or an enemy champ to reposition He doesn't counter all ranged champs, he just dictates they respect his shield and wind wall cd in order to trade and farm safely Is he perma pushing? Ok jump him in numbers or take the 5v4 against his team elsewhere. He's not overloaded, he just appears that way because he's annoying lol
> [{quoted}](name=AntiSJW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AHtzRAeR,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-03T20:31:41.372+0000) > > He has a high skill cap, low health pool (raka has more base health lvl 13 for ex), and his durability is circumstantial. Soraka starts losing on base health to Yasuo at level 2. He has 523 base + 87/level, to her 529 + 78/level. His durability is circumstantial, but doesn't come at any cost. > Windwall is not broken, its just annoying because its one of the best abilities in the game. However it doesn't do damage, has a high cd, doesn't increase in size until you level it, and without it he wouldn't provide much to any team. His Ult is already extremely situational compared to others who can just click theirs off cd. Windwall isn't broken, it's just annoying because it's broken? -Not doing damage isn't relevant to the strength of an ability. An ability can be powerful without dealing damage. Ex: Hawkshot, Thresh's Lantern. -The size of the wall is hardly relevant, if the ability so much as clips the edge of the wall..poof, it's gone. -Not being able to provide to a team isn't a good excuse to have something broken exist, if anything, it argues in favor of making changes to Yasuo to accommodate. As an aside, skirmishers aren't usually the class of champion that people look towards when asking for team utility. Outside of your standard split pushing, what does Jax, Riven, or Tryndamere bring? Damage and some cc? Pretty standard stuff. -His ult is situational, agreed, but I'd argue that the extra "features" of it makes up for that (the armor pen & passive shield reset). Additionally, knockups are quite common, the hoop to jump through to get his ult off isn't terribly large. > E is situational and doesn't even have max damage off the first dash I don't get the complaint op makes on this as far as the damage goes either. It isn't what makes the ability frustrating. > Q and auto attacks come out to relatively the same dmg later, and the cc is on a charge system. And it all scales down with his auto attack speed, effectively increasing the range of his autos, as well as making them aoe. One of my personal issues with Yasuo is how difficult it is to match his waveclear on a mage since I have to spend a resource to push while he doesn't. > Shield is small actually, refreshes only on movement, so usually it feels overpowered because you jumped him while it was up, then he ulted super far to another target to counter your damage. It only last for 1.5s I believe, so refreshing it with ult jump is pretty crucial to participating in any team fight. Otherwise you sit on the sidelines, getting less XP and gold. The shield increases as he levels, and refreshing on movement isn't a drawback, it's a reward for doing something in the game that you're already doing anyways. It's not on a limited cooldown or anything, it's based on movement, which is something that he's coincidentally good at. Also, looking at the amount it absorbs is far more relevant than it's duration. The shield is also proactive while it's available, which is huge. > Also, Yas doesn't get rights to the minions in a team fight. I can't tell you how many games my mobility gets halved because all my dashable targets are blown up by allies and all of a sudden I only have flash or an enemy champ to reposition Your team's poor play isn't relevant to the balance of a champion. If my teammates don't take my Thresh lantern, it doesn't make the ability garbage. > He doesn't counter all ranged champs, he just dictates they respect his shield and wind wall cd in order to trade and farm safely > Is he perma pushing? Ok jump him in numbers or take the 5v4 against his team elsewhere. He's not overloaded, he just appears that way because he's annoying lol He dictates the flow of the lane with his choices. When laning against a competent Yasuo, your choices aren't exactly irrelevant, but they don't matter nearly as much as his choices. Against other mids, he can just afk push while taking defensive/sustain runes while using his passive and mobility to dodge or mitigate your damage. You have to spend mana to push back, so he'll force you to back by virtue of outsustaining you in resource. This creates a lane where you have to be aggressive into him to attempt to prevent him from pushing (and scaling), and his kit is extremely potent from a reactionary position. Also, the jungler argument. The moment we jump to the "call your jungler" argument, we have to keep in mind that the enemy team has a jungler and other lanes as well. If yours has to watch mid, theirs gets to put pressure elsewhere.
Moon Mom (NA)
: if you own all champs you're getting a reroll a game anyway... i don't think it's ptw at all.
> [{quoted}](name=Moon Mom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=77aA9X9E,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-02T10:12:06.721+0000) > > if you own all champs you're getting a reroll a game anyway... i don't think it's ptw at all. The problem isn't the people who own all the champs though. If I played on an aram account, having an extra reroll every game drastically increases my chance to roll into a strong champion, and then by proximity, it increases the odds that my team gets a strong champion via the trading system. It's absolutely pay to (have a higher chance to) win.
: Trynd is such a fun champion to face
Honestly Trynd isn't really in a good place currently, not that it really has anything to do with how "fun" it is to lane against him. If there were a lever to pull to tone him down slightly, I'd take away his ability to activate his ult while hard cc'd.
: Except..... unless you're surrendering or extremely out of your elo, short games DON'T happen in ranked.
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bqBNZwFn,comment-id=000800010000,timestamp=2019-01-14T16:36:49.466+0000) > > Except..... unless you're surrendering or extremely out of your elo, short games DON'T happen in ranked. To give the benefit of the doubt to you, I'd say that in a lot of cases where the game SHOULD be decided/over, the winning team often doesn't know how to close out the game. With that on the table, games probably go longer than they need to, but games on average are often decided early because of how easy it is to snowball objectives off of a lead currently.
IG Ziko (EUNE)
: Player Base: We hate these 20 mins stomps, we want 50 mins games back. Also Player Base: Nexus blitz is such a fun mode because it's fast based and full of action. Me: {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
> [{quoted}](name=Cavalier707,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bqBNZwFn,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-01-14T15:45:04.522+0000) > > Player Base: We hate these 20 mins stomps, we want 50 mins games back. > > Also Player Base: Nexus blitz is such a fun mode because it's fast based and full of action. > > Me: {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}} I'm down with Nexus Blitz being a fast paced game mode for when I want to opt into that. Summoner's Rift isn't designed to be that. It's one thing if occasionally one team is super aggro and wins pre 20 minutes, it's another for it to be the norm. Games on SR are generally decided earlier than ARAM games are, they'd probably be overall shorter too if we could surrender vote ealier.
: you're cassiopea so you literally have the ability to stop rengar from jumping
> [{quoted}](name=Hammermancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lsqEyHWm,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-27T00:07:00.526+0000) > > you're cassiopea so you literally have the ability to stop rengar from jumping The range of his leap is about the same range as her W, but her W has a slight delay (travel time).
: I think it is baiscally official that the Akali rework is an unfixable failure.
I personally think her sustain in lane is more annoying than her shroud.
YetAnohter1 (EUNE)
: I'm still a noob so maybe I shouldn't speak about balancement because I don't understand it myself but... I must say I'm surprised by ppl saying these champs are "unfair to play against" and, quoting the OP, > [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oLn4b2oL,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-26T08:28:18.819+0000) > they literally make you feel like you can't do anything when the champ is at all strong. [Yasuo winrate: 47.57%](http://na.op.gg/champion/yasuo/statistics/mid) [Zoe winrate: 49.87%](http://na.op.gg/champion/zoe/statistics/mid) [Kalista winrate: 49.4%](http://na.op.gg/champion/kalista/statistics/bot) [Darius winrate: 49.78%](http://na.op.gg/champion/darius/statistics/top) Now drumroll please... [Akali winrate: 44.85%](http://na.op.gg/champion/akali/statistics/mid) It would seem it is very possible to do something against them? They all have winrate below 50%. They all **loose more games than they win**. And the so detested Akali has the lowest winrate of them all. Yes I know the winrate argument is often rejected, but why? If "_nothing could be done_" against these champs, shouldn't their winrate skyrocket?
> [{quoted}](name=YetAnohter1,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oLn4b2oL,comment-id=002c,timestamp=2018-12-26T20:55:49.210+0000) > > I'm still a noob so maybe I shouldn't speak about balancement because I don't understand it myself but... > > I must say I'm surprised by ppl saying these champs are "unfair to play against" and, quoting the OP, > > [Yasuo winrate: 47.57%](http://na.op.gg/champion/yasuo/statistics/mid) > > [Zoe winrate: 49.87%](http://na.op.gg/champion/zoe/statistics/mid) > > [Kalista winrate: 49.4%](http://na.op.gg/champion/kalista/statistics/bot) > > [Darius winrate: 49.78%](http://na.op.gg/champion/darius/statistics/top) > > Now drumroll please... > > [Akali winrate: 44.85%](http://na.op.gg/champion/akali/statistics/mid) > > It would seem it is very possible to do something against them? They all have winrate below 50%. They all **loose more games than they win**. And the so detested Akali has the lowest winrate of them all. > > Yes I know the winrate argument is often rejected, but why? If "_nothing could be done_" against these champs, shouldn't their winrate skyrocket? Most of these winrates are after the champions were dumpstered as a result of their game-breaking mechanics, but ultimately winrate has nothing to do with the overall experience of playing with or against them.
: "Games Change... Adapt or Leave."
Completely agree. I never understood why people make adaptation and feedback to be mutually exclusive concepts. For League's example, I can spam Dark Harvest while simultaneously making the statement that Dark Harvest in it's previous state was overpowered and needed to be tuned down.
: This is getting out of hand.
> [{quoted}](name=Electro522,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qo7FiEYQ,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-02T22:04:57.245+0000) > > https://i.imgur.com/osoJTgr.png?1 > > Oh, and guess who won? You'll never guess it, I swear. Team 2 did, because Graves and Jax were open.
: Everybody hates it, not just assassins. If anything assassins care less because most actually have a way to deal with it. Except lissandra E has no condition and it is only slow enough to walk away from if she does it from a far enough range. So now you have to keep a certain distance from her at all times whenever you don't know where the jg is because unless you have flash your one gank away from get fuckedville. Yah well considering that anivia Q is as large a lux E than yah people are going to hate Anivia E. So your saying the counter play to Lissandra is a counter gank... That could be said about any champion. Worse your whole plan relies on Lissandra using E and also taking it. Didn't take it? Guess the counter gank doesn't work and I'm still in the same situation once it comes back up.
> [{quoted}](name=Oakleaf Ranger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P58heH4b,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-16T09:36:12.293+0000) > > Everybody hates it, not just assassins. If anything assassins care less because most actually have a way to deal with it. Hyperbole, and non-assassin (mages) are more effective at dealing with Lissandra in general; they don't have to go into range of Lissandra to harass her. Lissandra's spells have a short range. > Except lissandra E has no condition and it is only slow enough to walk away from if she does it from a far enough range. So now you have to keep a certain distance from her at all times whenever you don't know where the jg is because unless you have flash your one gank away from get fuckedville. To quote your previous argument: "Her W might as well be a point and click snare because all she needs to do is use E to get in your face to make avoiding it impossible unless you have some method to dodge it point blank." -You're saying all she has to do is use E to close the gap. -you can walk away from her E if she isn't on top of you -If she casts E close to you, it's hard to dodge (how did she get close in the first place without it?) If Lissandra is casting E from close range, you've already allowed her to walk close to you. > Yah well considering that anivia Q is as large a lux E than yah people are going to hate Anivia E. I'm not even sure how you begin to compare Lux E with Anivia Q. The comparison pretty much starts and ends with "skill shots that deal magic damage". Lux E has a much faster travel time. If you take issue with Anivia Q (and Lissandra E), I think reaction time might be an issue here. Those abilities are molasses slow unless they're casting them literally on top of you. > So your saying the counter play to Lissandra is a counter gank... No, the counter play to Lissandra is to abuse her short range. Alternatively you can also shove her in and force her to spend mana pushing back the wave (her mana costs are high to budget her passive). > That could be said about any champion. Worse your whole plan relies on Lissandra using E and also taking it. No, it doesn't rely on this at all, I was giving an example of how to punish her. If she throws E and doesn't take it, she's out a gap closer for 18~ seconds. > Didn't take it? Guess the counter gank doesn't work and I'm still in the same situation once it comes back up. You beat Ahri by punishing her in the 8~ window her charm is down. It's even easier with Lissandra, her window is 18~ seconds.
iiGazeii (NA)
: You have several options: * Punish her poor waveclear by pushing her into tower and backing up, forcing her to use Distortion on the wave (i.e., not you) * Poke her so she can't safely all-in while staying safe. Don't step up too far. She falls off hard into the late game because her teamfight game is garbage. LeBlanc is good at one thing and one thing only, and that is killing one person. Like laning against most assassins, your job is not to kill her, it's to survive her and let your tanks handle her later on. * Buy Banshee's Veil. It screws up her combos and makes you require much more resources to take down.
> [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VYTKrMgM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-15T20:14:19.358+0000) > > You have several options: > > * Punish her poor waveclear by pushing her into tower and backing up, forcing her to use Distortion on the wave (i.e., not you) > * Poke her so she can't safely all-in while staying safe. Don't step up too far. She falls off hard into the late game because her teamfight game is garbage. LeBlanc is good at one thing and one thing only, and that is killing one person. Like laning against most assassins, your job is not to kill her, it's to survive her and let your tanks handle her later on. > * Buy Banshee's Veil. It screws up her combos and makes you require much more resources to take down. You forgot one crucial option: Banning her.
: People hate it because it empowers Lissandra's obnoxious aspect, her ability to gap close very reliably and CC you. Her W might as well be a point and click snare because all she needs to do is use E to get in your face to make avoiding it impossible unless you have some method to dodge it point blank. But don't worry if that was too much of an issue because her ultimate is a point and click stun just incase you some how found a way to fuck up using W point blank in someone's face. Oh by the way, this whole time Lissandra has been CCing you the enemy jungler has been strolling up to you to finish you off because you can't move for until 20 years pass. Fuck whenever Lissandra is good because its only when she can do this shit effectively in the meta that she sees play.
> [{quoted}](name=Oakleaf Ranger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P58heH4b,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-11-16T08:06:44.253+0000) > > > People hate it because it empowers Lissandra's obnoxious aspect, her ability to gap close very reliably and CC you. I'd argue people hate it because they can't one-shot her with their assassins in this matchup. > Her W might as well be a point and click snare because all she needs to do is use E to get in your face to make avoiding it impossible unless you have some method to dodge it point blank. Her claw has to be one of the slowest missile speed spells in the game; you can literally walk away from it. It's like saying that Anivia is too strong because her E hits so hard, while ignoring the condition that has to be fulfilled in order for that to be true. > But don't worry if that was too much of an issue because her ultimate is a point and click stun just incase you some how found a way to fuck up using W point blank in someone's face. Most ultimates do powerful things, and generally ultimates from most of the mid lane roster will kill you much faster, or immediately. > Oh by the way, this whole time Lissandra has been CCing you the enemy jungler has been strolling up to you to finish you off because you can't move for until 20 years pass. "Lissandra's jungler might come while she's fighting her laner. Nerf Lissandra." You could just as easily tell your jungler to come, bait her claw, and kill her after since she has no outs after she goes in with it. > Fuck whenever Lissandra is good because its only when she can do this shit effectively in the meta that she sees play. Even on the worlds stage, Lissandra was a niche pick. Teams weren't priority picking Lissandra, they were picking her either to play to Kaisa synergy (ally immobilizing effects apply Kaisa passive), or to contain Irelia & Leblanc with Aftershock.
: I really love how you guys are meta sheep + hypocrites. I've been running Aftershock on mages who have to go in {{champion:9}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:143}} and been called a troll / garbage / noob Now suddenly a random korean does it and everyone thinks it's broken. I'm glad I don't play this game anymore, garbage like this pisses me off beyond beliefs.
> [{quoted}](name=Beatrice falls,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P58heH4b,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-15T23:08:30.353+0000) > > I really love how you guys are meta sheep + hypocrites. > I've been running Aftershock on mages who have to go in {{champion:9}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:143}} and been called a troll / garbage / noob > > Now suddenly a random korean does it and everyone thinks it's broken. I'm glad I don't play this game anymore, garbage like this pisses me off beyond beliefs. Honestly outside of assassin matchups (and Irelia), Aftershock is pretty subpar. It's the one that the pros played though, and the one that shows up on her op.gg, so the sheep will flock.
: Is this Leblanc Nerf a joke?
> [{quoted}](name=Nausicäa ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ozMjftx2,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-10-30T22:03:50.646+0000) > > LeBlanc > Distortion (W) damage lowered from 85/125/165/205/245 to 75/115/155/195/235 > > First Irelia gets -5 movespeed when shes broken as fuck now this? > > -10 damage on an ability she uses as a gap closer and doesnt land half the fucking time? Gj balance team, ive long since lost faith in you and this change made me laugh. Unlike a 5 ms nerf, 10 damage (on her W) will actually affect her early wave management.
: "Just CC him" is as retarded as "just kill him"
: What keeps you coming back to League?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost
Hovila (EUW)
: Yasuo got executed, because damage wasn't enough to break through his passive's shield
On one hand, you can channel Recall with a shield on, be hit, and continue recalling as long as that damage doesn't exceed the shield amount. On the other, getting executed after being spotted by enemy Kalista's sentinel grants her kill credit. Stuff's whack lol
: Completely ignoring that the last buff Yasuo got was at 42% winrate, and that Lee was sub-50?
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vo4ekYyB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-07T22:06:02.822+0000) > > Completely ignoring that the last buff Yasuo got was at 42% winrate, and that Lee was sub-50? You're right! Buff Zoe.
: I think the spheres fire one at a time, so maybe you can cast one while you're ulting and it'll add it before the other 6 finish. I'm not a syndra player so I don't know for sure
> [{quoted}](name=420 grams,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FUZitBHe,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-03T17:43:58.879+0000) > > I think the spheres fire one at a time, so maybe you can cast one while you're ulting and it'll add it before the other 6 finish. I'm not a syndra player so I don't know for sure Correct. Also W extends the duration of the sphere you pick up.
Anin777 (EUW)
: Sigh. You need to level up your comprehension skills. Kai'sa did hybrid dmg which is hard to balance/counter. So they nerfed her. Zed deals physical dmg and is countered heavily by armor. Also consider it was Ardent meta not too long ago, he couldn't even kill ADCs. Let alone tanks. So he got buffs to compensate.
> [{quoted}](name=Anin777,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AUERc4KK,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-14T17:49:42.307+0000) > > Sigh. You need to level up your comprehension skills. Kai'sa did hybrid dmg which is hard to balance/counter. So they nerfed her. Zed deals physical dmg and is countered heavily by armor. Also consider it was Ardent meta not too long ago, he couldn't even kill ADCs. Let alone tanks. So he got buffs to compensate. Zed was weak in the last meta, so even though he's strong in the current meta, we can't nerf him. ???????
Anin777 (EUW)
: Uhh Kai'sa deals hybrid dmg which is probably the hardest to counter. Compared to Zed she has a way higher dps so miss me with your garbage attacks.
> [{quoted}](name=Anin777,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AUERc4KK,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-01T16:02:24.396+0000) > > Uhh Kai'sa deals hybrid dmg which is probably the hardest to counter. Compared to Zed she has a way higher dps so miss me with your garbage attacks. You're right. Kaisa does hybrid damage, so buff Zed. ???
: I am glad they nerfed Zoe’s e range. One suggestion I made on release. I like playing her and the lower splash damage and e range give a little more counter play. Still isn’t a healthy kit but it’s more manageable. Not sure how they think the recent w damage nerf will make a difference. That was never really important to her.
> [{quoted}](name=The Space Cowboy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3jAaN7mA,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-06-30T18:56:04.302+0000) > > I am glad they nerfed Zoe’s e range. One suggestion I made on release. I like playing her and the lower splash damage and e range give a little more counter play. Still isn’t a healthy kit but it’s more manageable. Not sure how they think the recent w damage nerf will make a difference. That was never really important to her. People skilled up W early on (anywhere from 3-5 points) for powerful early cheese. The damage is essentially point and click, and the movespeed made her hard to pin down.
Emo Twink (OCE)
: Lad, that's the issue. There's so much options for getting through armor its basically useless.
> [{quoted}](name=HoneyOTU,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AUERc4KK,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-30T22:52:45.997+0000) > > Lad, that's the issue. There's so much options for getting through armor its basically useless. Actually, building armor counteracts lethality, believe it or not. Lethality is a stat that's meant to be strong against squishy targets because the armor pen it provides is a flat amount. Against a squishy that builds armor, the flat amount ignores a larger percentage of their armor because their armor value is lower. Against targets with more armor, lethality is much less effective for the same reason, and since Lethality is something that items are budgeted for, they typically don't scale well into targets/teams that stack armor over raw damage.
Anin777 (EUW)
: Considering how gosh darn awful he was before those buffs, well yes he shouldn't be nerfed.
> [{quoted}](name=Anin777,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AUERc4KK,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-07-01T01:41:38.264+0000) > > Considering how gosh darn awful he was before those buffs, well yes he shouldn't be nerfed. You're right, Kaisa didn't deserve her nerfs either, should've left her at pick/ban because she released in the dumpster. This logic is ass.
Rioter Comments
: finally they did something right with URF
> [{quoted}](name=Ok sure but why,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=53eGVraM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-27T23:44:06.705+0000) > > finally they did something right with URF Yeah if you don't mind 30 dodges before playing against a team that's completely stacked ;)
: Why do you care though? why does chucklefuck mcgee deserve to have your attention? they're as you said just a chucklefuck mcgee. chucklefuck them right into the mute button see how they like that. Oh wait, you wont see them anymore hahaha
> [{quoted}](name=LuciferDraco,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ywvPn9KL,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-05-27T22:38:57.169+0000) > > Why do you care though? > > why does chucklefuck mcgee deserve to have your attention? they're as you said just a chucklefuck mcgee. > chucklefuck them right into the mute button see how they like that. Oh wait, you wont see them anymore hahaha Not seeing them is what they're complaining about, based on what he wrote.
Rioter Comments
: Back with another idea, this one for annie.
I like the idea of making Tibbers more interactive, but at the same time I'm not sure that I'd want power taken out to put into the hands of AI. I'd also like to see some form of change to make Molten Shield a bit more relevant. It's effect is fairly negligible other than charging stun, so I wouldn't mind seeing something done. I miss when Tibbers got ms from it before her update. I wouldn't even mind seeing something crazy like Tibbers breathing fire while E is active, or duplicating her basic spells or something, at the cost of some of the initial damage.
: pyke is a fucking beast, hopefully i can play him mid but i would have no prob playing him in the support role
> [{quoted}](name=0DESTROYERZ0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Pki5MYL,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-05-14T22:24:29.717+0000) > > pyke is a fucking beast, hopefully i can play him mid but i would have no prob playing him in the support role I don't think he's going to have good waveclear to be played mid.
Trias000 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Zach xD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lxFEH5ce,comment-id=000a000100000000,timestamp=2018-04-27T15:28:22.687+0000) > > Cleanse is much more powerful than Tenacity. Consider the damage creep in the game currently; you can non-exaggeratedly be killed in a second in some cases (team fight, assassin, etc). If you get hit by a stun for 1.5 - 2 seconds, the value of removing it completely and being able to flash is much higher than instead reducing the stun duration to 0.75-1 second because realistically in that scenario, you'll likely still die. OP's argument is that tenacity is useless because it doesn't reduce knockups. It's basically like saying that {{item:3031}} is useless because it doesn't give AP. But you say something different - that tenacity is useless because you get deleted before the cc ends anyway. And that's a huge generalisation, that is probably false in most cases. There are certainly situations where tenacity can save you, especially if you're tanky.
> [{quoted}](name=Trias000,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lxFEH5ce,comment-id=000a0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-27T21:40:23.500+0000) > > OP's argument is that tenacity is useless because it doesn't reduce knockups. It's basically like saying that {{item:3031}} is useless because it doesn't give AP. > But you say something different - that tenacity is useless because you get deleted before the cc ends anyway. And that's a huge generalisation, that is probably false in most cases. There are certainly situations where tenacity can save you, especially if you're tanky. Your arguments were that cleanse would be useless if tenacity were truly useless, and that if mages didn't value the tenacity highly from mercs that they would go sorcs + null magic instead. I was pointing out the reason that that wasn't true. The value of tenacity is largely diminished by the fact that knockup duration isn't affected by it, and that tenacity's effect is fairly miniscule. Is tenacity better than no tenacity? Certainly. Is gold spent on tenacity better spent on something else? Certainly.
KAZMERA (NA)
: Anyone else feel Ekko is sleeper strong and/or overtuned?
> [{quoted}](name=REFORMEDSQUIRTLE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5cN8NP4o,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-26T10:00:32.215+0000) > > There are few champions in the game that make me question Riots balancing team. But Ekko is definitely one of those champions that I ban nearly EVERY game now. Spammable (Mana cost almost non-noticeable) Q with Dorans for stupid easy wave clear, Massive shield in a wide area great for zoning, else the enemy laner will get stunned and lose a trade/kill, Build in Sheen with a dash, and an "oops i fucked up" reset ult. Maybe its with the new runes that he is a big pain the ass in lane now, but I have definitely been seeing more Ekko's lately and it makes me want to pull my hair out. I feel like the amount of options in his kit is overloaded and the only reason he isn't dominating is that the meta doesn't favor his playstyle and his numbers aren't all there.
: Rylai should have less AP, but significantly more HP and a stronger slow
> [{quoted}](name=YumaS2Astral,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ufokg4YY,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-26T23:20:19.465+0000) > > I think the direction that Riot is pushing this item currently is wrong. Adding more AP to it means that it will just encourage more burst heavy AP champions from purchasing it. Meaning that we will be back to when Rylai had 100 AP and it was purchased by every mage (save a few specific mages which already had CC everywhere on their kit). > > This item should be like Frozen Mallet. You purchase it when you want to have a little bit of soft CC and tankyness, but you sacrifice damage potential by doing this instead of purchasing things like Titanic Hydra. > > To do this, something they could do is to reduce the AP to 45 or 50, increase the HP to 500 or 600 (maybe 700) and then revert the slow to what it used to be back when it had 100 AP and 400 HP. Then change its recipe to a {{item:1026}} + a {{item:1011}}. Maybe slighty increase the cost. > > This way, this would be a better item for champions like {{champion:27}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:8}} and peharps {{champion:30}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:50}} - They would love the stronger slow and extra HP, and wouldn't mind the loss of AP too much, especially since their kits have a lot of natural damage already. (especially Vlad which can convert the extra HP into AP) The extra tankiness would help them last more and deal more damage to begin with. > > On other hand, champions like {{champion:1}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:103}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:134}} would need to think twice before purchasing this item, since doing so would mean they would do less damage, and those champions generally want to do as much damage as possible in a short time. Whereas they abused old Rylai because it was one of the few big AP items back then. The slow was just the icing on the cake. Some of them could buy this to have an easier time landing their CC, but that would be a loss in damage potential (something that wasn't true with old Rylai due to it having 100 AP) Making the changes you described just changes the target audience for the item. Saying that "mages should have to give up X to use Rylais, but now Ap Bruiser/tank/Cass can go nuts with it!" doesn't suddenly make it more balanced.
Dasdi96 (NA)
: Knockups are way too common and powerful compared to other forms of cc.
I don't even know what can be done with Tenacity to make it a more valuable stat at this point. Maybe you can remove it and re-allocate the gold budget elsewhere on the items, maybe Tenacity can be reworked in some way (maybe damage reduction while CC'ed, the reduction increasing with tenacity. In this case you could easily make it work with knock ups as well), I don't know what the best way to do it is. Tenacity is a tough stat to make appealing, because it's only valuable when you're in a bad position. Basically if you're "stacking" tenacity, it's worthless if you actually end up avoiding CC, which is ultimately the goal.
Trias000 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Mordepool,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lxFEH5ce,comment-id=000a0001,timestamp=2018-04-26T20:24:48.676+0000) > > Magic Resist. They could strip off the tenacity and drop the price accordingly. Ok, then why do they take {{summoner:1}} ? You can't cleanse knockups. If tenacity was useless, cleanse would be too. Also, for a mage it would make more sense to build {{item:3020}} + {{item:1033}} if it was only about magic resist. Yet they often choose {{item:3111}}.
Cleanse is much more powerful than Tenacity. Consider the damage creep in the game currently; you can non-exaggeratedly be killed in a second in some cases (team fight, assassin, etc). If you get hit by a stun for 1.5 - 2 seconds, the value of removing it completely and being able to flash is much higher than instead reducing the stun duration to 0.75-1 second because realistically in that scenario, you'll likely still die. As for Mercs over Sorcs, that's mostly a meta adaptation. In competitive play, mid laners typically clear waves and roam, almost robotic like. The incentive to harass, fight, and contest your lane opponent isn't very high currently, so Merc's ends up being a safer buy (You don't get as much mileage out of sorc's in a passive lane).
: WTF IS THIS LEE BUFF?
More of the frustration for me stems from this idea that it feels like Riot issued a global emergency the moment Lee was hit by a change while Ivern is still rotting away somewhere in a ditch, just to give an example.
: wtf is is with the "shaco" shitposts, he has a 51-54% winrate... in EVERY ELO
Winrate is a comprehensive reflection on how balanced a champion is. Ryze is a highly contested pick in pro play. Pick one.
: but what if RNGesus hates you and all you get are mana pots ? (if you pick this on vlad)
> [{quoted}](name=HeroGilgamesh,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I76cza3l,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-23T16:37:17.105+0000) > > but what if RNGesus hates you and all you get are mana pots ? (if you pick this on vlad) I don't believe mana pots can drop for manaless champs.
Naon (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=R FLASH EMOTE XD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GeaEGwcp,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-02-04T22:37:55.520+0000) > > i love ccing a tristana just to have her jump away because of the shitty buffer that it has. needs to be removed tbh If you hit Gnar mid jump it messes him up because he is lightweight. IDK why trist doesn't have something similar to this. She has to safe of a laning phase for her to be given so much room to scale like she does.
> [{quoted}](name=Can NOT Support,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GeaEGwcp,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-02-04T23:19:00.652+0000) > > If you hit Gnar mid jump it messes him up because he is lightweight. IDK why trist doesn't have something similar to this. She has to safe of a laning phase for her to be given so much room to scale like she does. She does. After the initial buffer (cast time), she can be displaced mid-air. Just about every Thresh montage has them flaying a Trist as she's trying to jump, as an example.
Nphobic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Zach xD,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=58ReHNH8,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2017-10-21T02:39:10.442+0000) > > "I just hit gold V, 0 LP. Time to go talk shit about silvers!!" Talk to me when you finally get out of silver xD
I mean I'll give you props for playing to Gold. I didn't even care enough about ranked to play out my placements this season, so say whatever..lol
Nphobic (NA)
: Good thing ill never get you in my games because of you elo, lol. I mean if you really knew how to play her you wouldn't be hard stuck bronze 3
> [{quoted}](name=Nphobic,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=58ReHNH8,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-20T19:12:18.330+0000) > > Good thing ill never get you in my games because of you elo, lol. I mean if you really knew how to play her you wouldn't be hard stuck bronze 3 "I just hit gold V, 0 LP. Time to go talk shit about silvers!!"
Kanzler (NA)
: Because that would cost them money from RP sales and they love their money.
All the free shit that people get from these costs them money. You're playing a game that is free, they're correcting the system of gameplay being gated behind rune purchases, and throwing out freebies via hextech crafting and BE rewards via leveling. Even if I thought it was stingy, giving me anything for free beyond the actual core game is a bonus to me.
: True, but you basically have to build a defensive item or more if Annie is ahead because she'll just flash RWQ from 1000 units away and nuke you with 0 counterplay.
> [{quoted}](name=Bob the Toastr,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=5PtbBdtG,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-24T17:24:38.906+0000) > > True, but you basically have to build a defensive item or more if Annie is ahead because she'll just flash RWQ from 1000 units away and nuke you with 0 counterplay. Ask your jungler to come force her flash. If it works, you win lane. Woah.
: When someone tells me my Champion takes no skill
I never understood this statement. Like, I don't care how much skill a champ in league, a deck in mtg, hearthstone, etc takes. Does it win/is it fun? All that matters to me. I suppose it's self serving to claim something takes no skill while you sit on a black screen waiting to respawn. Sometimes you just have to vent out frustration or give yourself an excuse to put you back on your feet. It's a pity that people resort to that rather than preventing the situations that caused them to die to begin with though. I play games for personal enjoyment, not to prove myself to random strangers. I don't really care how much skill they perceive me having.
: Annie's damage and indefinitely holding stun--thoughts on some changes
Why does this argument keep coming up? TF can cast while he holds his card. He doesn't give up the ability to push by holding his stun, and he can warp across the map with a gold card. They're completely different characters with different playstyles. I do think Annie needs changes/rework, but it shouldn't be based on a comparison to one mode of TF's pick a card, considering what else comes packaged in his kit.
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Zach xD

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