Latarnia40 (EUNE)
: Ideas how to make Hail of blades viable
I've been advocating for option 1 since they made changes to it. It's baffling that it doesn't have this already. It would actually be a useful late-game rune if it could reset. And I think it should have a damage bonus of some kind. Not massive, but it needs to be small yet meaningful. Something like % Armor penetration on your attacks. Preferably this would be a very low damage bonus that would scale up higher by the end of the game. Something like 5-15% Armor penetration (based on level).
: I think Riven discovered Noxus wasn't really a meritocracy. What it professes to be and believe in and its behavior don't always line up. Believing in strength and merit based advancement has to be _balanced_ (hint) with a level playing field and honorable conduct.
It was stated by a rioter that the events in the Awaken music video are actual written stories. Is there a chance we could get Riven's story anytime soon?
Zaghyr (NA)
: If you think you can do something for only 24 hours and already have muscle memory of it then you have no idea how muscle memory works.
> just read the post you're responding to lmao I did. That's why I clarified both points because I was hoping to god you weren't stupid enough to use ONE 24 hour session as your example, but unfortunately you were. > yeah you definitely did 4000 repetitions of it during the 7 games fam Never said I did. No idea where you got that idea from fam > muscle memory has nothing to do with your actual memory and there is no long and short time memory there, its just about motor functions and your brain getting used to performing it. how long of a period you practice it for has no effect on anything. You're right it isn't 'actual memory', but it is a type of memory and the concepts of Short-term and Long-term memory still apply here. Muscle memory is just procedural memory, and like other forms of memory, become more ingrained in you over time. 4000 repetitions in 24 hours means nothing a month later when you can't replicate what you did. But 100 repetitions over 40 days has a much greater effect for muscle memory because it gives your brain time to ingrain that experience rather than rushing it and not letting it settle. Studying works the exact same way. Cramming for a test the night before might work in the short-term, but does nothing for you later on, while studying constantly over a period of time works much better for remembering. Muscle Memory works like this as well wether you believe it or not. Just because someone repeats an action 4000 in one day does not mean they will be able to come back to it later and do it again, especially compared to people who have repeated that task over a long period of time. And even if you were right, and 4000 repetitions in a day were all you needed, it would still be pointless because if you spend that time fucking up the combos then the only thing going into muscle memory is how to do it wrong.
Zaghyr (NA)
: If you think you can do something for only 24 hours and already have muscle memory of it then you have no idea how muscle memory works.
First of all, if you are basing your example on doing 4000 repetitions over 24 hours in ONE 24 hour sessions, then your example is really bad because the situation it calls for is extremely unrealistic and would never happen. Now if you argued that you could develop muscle memory for Riven's combos over the course of 24 hours of repetitions separated into many many smaller segments (like 1 hour a day for 24 days), then I could agree with you, but only to an extent. Even if you do the same repetitive task many times in a very short amount of time, it would not give you the same results as doing it many times over a longer period of time. And this is true for gaming and playing Riven specifically. Muscle Memory is called memory for a reason, and part of that is because of short-term memory and long-term memory. Adrian Riven has long-term muscle memory for her combos because he has done this consistently for many years. If Adrian Riven stopped playing for a week and after that week was over held a 'combo contest' with a regular player who practiced her combos non-stop for most of the prior week, I 100% guarantee you that the player who only practiced for that week would never be able to pull off those combos as effectively and consistently as Adrian Riven would, because the muscle memory is different. If all you do is condense fast repetitions into a small amount of time then all you do is develop short-term memory, which you will not keep. I'll give you a real life example. I bowl and have been in bowling leagues since I was really young. Today my bowling style is to use no thumb, meaning I only use my middle and ring finger to the first digit and hold the ball in my palm, curved into my arm. I tried this years ago and sucked at it but did it non-stop that day and ended up playing like 9 games doing this (this was a christmas party, and fuck did I regret this, I couldn't life my arm above my head for a week). By the 3rd game I got the hang of it and by the 7thish game i was doing well consistently. After a few weeks I went bowling with my brother and did this again for fun, and sucked ass at it all 3 games. Now I have been practicing this and bowling like this for several years now and can bowl like this consistently (meaning my start, approach, and release) even if I haven't bowled in months. This is what I mean by you don't understand muscle memory (at least in a mechanical sense, not weight training which is its own thing really). Repetitions are worthless unless done consistently over time. If 2 players did 4000 repetitions each, and one did it in a day and the other did it in 2 weeks, it is vastly more likely that the player who did it over 2 weeks would have better muscle memory because it was able to develop properly.
Hi im 12 (EUNE)
: yes there is sucha massive difference between challenger and GM players, its also definitely not because of how fucking broken riven is and how bad renekton is lmao > If you say you can master Riven within a day or two you can't master anything in a day or two, not even garen but hey keep putting words in my mouth, if you think you actually can't apply the combos into your muscle memory by doing them for 24 hours you have no clue how the human body works.
If you think you can do something for only 24 hours and already have muscle memory of it then you have no idea how muscle memory works.
Nep Bot (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Wiented,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNeKgAkO,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-04T03:15:36.898+0000) > > The fact that you dont even know that Cleanse HAS NOT BEEN REMOVED FROM SR shows just how little your post is worth. the fact that I miedx up cleanse and clarity should not only be obvious, but stands as an example that you should not quickly writee these posts during loading screens
So let me guess, you had a bad experience the game before and felt the need to rush out a post???
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 2
Considering how well live updates for 9.13 were received, how well do you think they would be if they were combined with your Gameplay Thoughts? As it stands now your Gameplay Thoughts are much less focused on the balance aspect of gameplay than they were when you first started it and most of the time the comments to each one are regarding specific balance changes and balance questions. So considering Live Updates did really well in the fact that players were able to engage with potential changes before they were even put on the PBE and give better feedback more quickly, I think it would be beneficial to both the balance team and the players if they hopped in on the posts to let us know about specific balance options they are thinking of (like reduce mana cost, increase damage, -5 MS, etc...) so they can get early feedback on potential changes and so we the players know the thought process behind their changes more often. This could be as simple as them posting their own Gameplay Thoughts once or twice a week or even include things in yours. If they are posting their own then it would just be a combination of topics from several different balance team members. Unfortunately when patches go live, a bunch of players are left scratching their heads at the specific changes made, like the recent Syndra changes that I'm completely baffled by, but with Balance based Gameplay Thoughts the playerbase, or at least a portion of it, can have a better idea of what the changes are aimed at and make suggestions. Not only that but it would serve as a better, more direct way for rioters to interact with those of us on the boards who are actually care about the balance of the game and not just QQ about things we don't like.
Meddler (NA)
: From memory we're looking to buff her mana per level (40 instead of 30), letting her cast a bit more and likely adding a bit more power in average skill games than really high MMR/pro since mana management tends to be more optimized there.
The Syndramains sub has been discussing what changes could be done and overall they think that the main things that Syndra needs is for her W nerfs to be partially reverted. Right now its radius is 225 when it was initally 275, but they the mains are fine with even 250, and I agree this is greatly needed. And possibly more than anything Syndra needs QOL improvements for her abilities and bug fixes. Her W and E are VERY unsatisfying to use, clunky, and riddled with bugs. Her W will just not grab units, seems like it has a much longer throw time than normal, and sometimes won't even throw the unit at all, personally I have trouble just picking up Dark Spheres that are in range while spam clicking them. Her E is riddled with bugs, particularly these: Initial cast won't knockback enemies or even damage, won't knock back dark spheres, dark spheres will not damage or stun enemies they pass through.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 17
What do you think of {{champion:92}}'s current state after the changes and do you think they hit your goals?
: Because laying out her kit highlights how powerful it is, and then leading into the fact that they're very low CD with no mana to gate them in any way highlights even further how powerful it is.when building an argument its best to lay out the baseline of the oposistion first, then lead into the issus at hand. if i had come here and said "riven has low CD's and no mana" it would have been a problem, you have to lay out WHY its powerful which i clearly did, then lead into why i think its too powerful or in this case toxic then offer a solution. Shields serve a defensive purpose, and any champion that has a shield shouldn't have one unless its pathetically weak to the point of being damn near useless. if the champion doesn't have CC or mobility, in far too many cases both, they really don't need the shield too especially one that powerful that scales with their offensive attributes. i played riven....way back when the black cleaver got remade and was disgusted, i'm not a mechanically advanced player got issues with my hands so i generally stick to ACTUALLY brain dead champions like hecarim and Urgot lol, but when I can play champions like Riven with even marginal success it doesn't bode well for the argument they're skill intensive.
> Because laying out her kit highlights how powerful it is, and then leading into the fact that they're very low CD with no mana to gate them in any way highlights even further how powerful it is.when building an argument its best to lay out the baseline of the oposistion first, then lead into the issus at hand. if i had come here and said "riven has low CD's and no mana" it would have been a problem, you have to lay out WHY its powerful which i clearly did, then lead into why i think its too powerful or in this case toxic then offer a solution. Are you saying that her being manaless and low cd is powerful because of the things in her kit, or that her kit is powerful because she is manaless and has low cd's? In my mind these 2 things could be interpreted differently, and depending on which one it is, listing her kit wouldn't prove much. What if her stun was 0.1 seconds long? or she only got like 10 AD from her ult? If these were the case then these things in her kit wouldn't be problematic even if she has no mana and low cooldowns. Again my point is that listing the things in her kit doesn't amount to much because even if her being manaless and having low cd's is problematic that doesn't mean that everything in her kit is problematic because you need to look at each thing individually; just having something in the kit doesn't make it problematic, even if the champions is manaless and low cooldown. >Shields serve a defensive purpose, and any champion that has a shield shouldn't have one unless its pathetically weak to the point of being damn near useless. if the champion doesn't have CC or mobility, in far too many cases both, they really don't need the shield too especially one that powerful that scales with their offensive attributes. Still gonna disagree here but I see your point. I think champions need shields even if they have CC or mobility due to their being many more factors to consider besides them having CC and/or mobility, especially with how far the game has advanced from say 4-6 years ago. >i played riven....way back when the black cleaver got remade and was disgusted, i'm not a mechanically advanced player got issues with my hands so i generally stick to ACTUALLY brain dead champions like hecarim and Urgot lol, but when I can play champions like Riven with even marginal success it doesn't bode well for the argument they're skill intensive. And why doesn't it bode well for the arguement? You said 'when I can play champions like Riven' which implies that its an occasional thing, because like you said you cant generally play mechanically intensive champs because of your hand, but just because you do well doesn't mean she's easy. I've played her like dogshit and far below my mastery of her several times for various reasons and done really well, and on the flip side I've played her at my best and it wasn't nearly enough. I also don't know what skill level of players you generally play against or just how often you've played Riven so I can't tell if you win out of playing against bad players or you're just familiar with her. I said earlier that anyone can pick up a champ and do well occasionally and that would still hold true with you. The other thing that you're not realizing with Riven is that she is generally a jack-of-all trades fighter, meaning she has a range of options of stuff to do so you can easily find a way to be useful. My point is that just because YOU do well with Riven when you get to play her doesn't mean she or other champ's aren't hard because that is YOUR experience, not the rest of the playerbase, and there are more factors to consider for why you do well with her. It is a shame though with your hand, because if you tend to do well with her then you could be a very good Riven player if you weren't hindered.
: i did use the wiki, but i got the urgot ratio mixed in with the riven ratio by mistake even though i had both pages open. me getting that wrong tilted me more than anything when i was actually posting the OP lol. and no i wasn't ranting i was laying out Rivens powers, and then led from that into her having no mana to gate her already low CDS, to set up the problem you have to identify what makes it powerful. even at early game they're not really holding her back that much is the problem,even 10% cdr makes her kit very forgiving and its damned easy to get that these days. i agree with you the mages shouldn't have an AP shield either, diana having a shield and that much burst tilts the ever living shit out of me, even with her being 'gated' by mana i think her shield should have a much higher cost. the reason i didn't bring up the AP champions with shields is because that's a different issue than the one this post was attempting to address, which was that most of the manaless champions are toxic designs. which again i'll cede that point i should have explicitly stated i thought this was a toxic game design choice rather than a broken or over powered one my bad. her dashing having the option to be offensive or defensive doesn't NOT make them a defensive option it makes them a versatile option, one which doesn't really matter once she gets any amount of CDR and the CD doesn't impact her choices, especially now that riot reduced the CD on her Q for some ungodly reason.Yasuo is another example of a champions mobility being a powerful Versatile option. if there are minions nearby for Yasuo to dash through most champions are not safe and can't outrun him,nor can they chase him at least he's squishy...or would be if he didn't have a shield though thank the gods his doesn't scale with AD at least.anyway back on point, all of this combined into her bloated kit, without mana to hold her late game power in check is a problem.Riven requires critical thinking...for about....10-15 minutes before she gets even a little CDR then her kit is too forgiving. if you have a better solution i wouldn't mind hearing it. appologies if this is difficult to read and sattered just got off work and probably gonna pass out now.
> i did use the wiki, but i got the urgot ratio mixed in with the riven ratio by mistake even though i had both pages open. me getting that wrong tilted me more than anything when i was actually posting the OP lol. Ya having the right info but still putting down the wrong one is tilting, I've done it too, especially in math classes where that sucks more. > and no i wasn't ranting i was laying out Rivens powers, and then led from that into her having no mana to gate her already low CDS, to set up the problem you have to identify what makes it powerful. even at early game they're not really holding her back that much is the problem,even 10% cdr makes her kit very forgiving and its damned easy to get that these days. But why would laying out all the assets of her kit matter unless you go into why each one is problematic BEFORE you say that the core issue is low cooldowns and lack of Mana? My issue with that giant paragraph is that you list all those things, and then you say that the main problem is her low cooldowns and lack of mana, without going into why each one is really problematic. If those things are problematic BECAUSE of her low cooldowns and lack of mana, then it wouldn't matter if you put those down anyway because the problem wouldn't those those assets but the low cooldowns and lack of mana generally. Regardless of if it was a rant or not, my main issue is just that you listed out everything in her kit when it seems unecessary, because you could have just said she has low cooldowns and lack of mana, and then explained why each ability is or is not problematic based on those cases. And her kit isn't as forgiving as you think it is, its just that a lot of people don't know how take advantage of her mistakes that well, same for some other champs like her. >i agree with you the mages shouldn't have an AP shield either, diana having a shield and that much burst tilts the ever living shit out of me, even with her being 'gated' by mana i think her shield should have a much higher cost. the reason i didn't bring up the AP champions with shields is because that's a different issue than the one this post was attempting to address, which was that most of the manaless champions are toxic designs. which again i'll cede that point i should have explicitly stated i thought this was a toxic game design choice rather than a broken or over powered one my bad. I never said mages shouldn't have AP scaling shields, I think they should, just like I think AD scaling shield's should exist. What I said was that the logic you used to say that AD scaling shields are bad would also apply to AP shields. Both kinds scale with offensive stats. The issue is just how they scale. Personally I think some of them need higher base shields but much lower scaling to make them more generally usable, and less snowbally and explosive. >her dashing having the option to be offensive or defensive doesn't NOT make them a defensive option it makes them a versatile option, one which doesn't really matter once she gets any amount of CDR and the CD doesn't impact her choices, especially now that riot reduced the CD on her Q for some ungodly reason. The cooldowns do impact her choices, a lot. Especially when it comes to engage/disengage, clutch plays, and anim cancelling. I don't mean this to be rude, but I want to know how much you've played Riven, and if you have how much have you mastered her. Because generally lower elo Rivens and newer players won't maximize their cooldowns and ability usage, so it seems like it doesn't matter because they can spam abilities and do well, but that doesn't work when things start to get hard. Misjudging your remaining Q cooldown, using E too early, overestimating yourself while you wait for your W, these are things that can ruin the situation and I know I've done it my fair share. And I agree, buffing her Q cooldown was not the best idea. They should have buffed something else as compensation. >Yasuo is another example of a champions mobility being a powerful Versatile option. if there are minions nearby for Yasuo to dash through most champions are not safe and can't outrun him,nor can they chase him at least he's squishy...or would be if he didn't have a shield though thank the gods his doesn't scale with AD at least.anyway back on point, all of this combined into her bloated kit, without mana to hold her late game power in check is a problem.Riven requires critical thinking...for about....10-15 minutes before she gets even a little CDR then her kit is too forgiving. if you have a better solution i wouldn't mind hearing it. Still though, I disagree that she doesn't take critical thinking. CDR or not, Riven is not easy to play effectively. Yes you can hop in on your first game and stomp, but you can do that with any champion. Riven is one of the hardest champions in the game because of her mastery curve, and a player will never be able to play her at the highest level without critical thinking. I've thought of solutions for years on personal reworks I've written to make her more balanced. And I've written a lot of them, and for many other champs too to see how I would fix the game. Generally the things I would say would work best are giving incentives to the player for proper usage of abilities and not spamming things and to lower her burst but increase DPS. Having a way to gate her abilities would also work, but I don't think mana or Energy would work (definitely not energy). The biggest problem is that these things that are problematic with Riven would not be this bad if she couldn't animation cancel the way she does. > appologies if this is difficult to read and sattered just got off work and probably gonna pass out now. No problemo
: the problem with AD scaling shields, is that there's a reason champions like lee have a shield but it scales with AP, because allowing them to build damage while also getting a defensive attribute from it is hardly fair, beause riot has said and balanced the game around AD being valued higher. the point of the post is to point out how mindless champions like riven with no mana are and how they don't really get punished for spamming their kit, further more if you had read the damn post you'd have seen that there was actual criticism it was, agian, that these manaless champions are(for the most part with rare exception) toxic. not broken, not over powered, just toxic IE unfun to play against. Riven has plenty of defensive options with her 4 dashes on a VERY low Cooldown, as well as hard AOE CC. also good, most champions that aren't tanks shouldn't and don't have such a powerful defensive tool built into their kit when its not their job to be a tank riven is very clearly designed to deal damage but she has a very powerful CC, survivability, mobility, and burst kit. because you don't like or even agree with the opinions offered here doesn't make it a rant just like me disagreeing with everything you've said doesn't make yours a rant. i clearly deconstructed the problem with her kit, being low CD and no mana so there's not incentive for critical thinking, and offered a solution in Mana to curb that. because increasing her Cooldowns would probably actually ruin the champion. allow her to abuse her low CD's for a while before exhausting her mana, leaving a wider window of opportunity for counterplay. though i will cede you one point...i was wrong on her AD ratio on her shield....my bad....
> the problem with AD scaling shields, is that there's a reason champions like lee have a shield but it scales with AP, because allowing them to build damage while also getting a defensive attribute from it is hardly fair, beause riot has said and balanced the game around AD being valued higher. 'because allowing them to build damage while also getting a defensive attribute from it is hardly fair'. What isn't fair is only applying this logic to AD scaling shields. Every AP scaling shield also follows this logic and that is why it is a poor argument. What really matters for AD shields isn't that they exist, but how far they scale. Like you said, AD is valued higher than AP, but that doesn't mean AD shields shouldn't exist, it just means they just be handled differently in terms of scaling. >the point of the post is to point out how mindless champions like riven with no mana are and how they don't really get punished for spamming their kit, further more if you had read the damn post you'd have seen that there was actual criticism it was, agian, that these manaless champions are(for the most part with rare exception) toxic. not broken, not over powered, just toxic IE unfun to play against. I wouldn't say champions like Riven are mindless and don't get punished, Riven certainly isn't mindless and can easily get punished, especially early, its just her mid-late game most people have an issue with, hence her E cooldown nerf. Of all the manaless champions the only one that I think is truly mindless is Garen, even if he is intended to be new player friendly. And I know you had some criticism, but my problem is how much non-criticism one has to sift through to get to it. Be specific with the criticism and offer specific suggestions for the problems present. And if your underlying point is that these champions are toxic (in design) and don't want someone to misinterpret that as broken or over powered, then say so. >Riven has plenty of defensive options with her 4 dashes on a VERY low Cooldown, as well as hard AOE CC. also good, most champions that aren't tanks shouldn't and don't have such a powerful defensive tool built into their kit when its not their job to be a tank riven is very clearly designed to deal damage but she has a very powerful CC, survivability, mobility, and burst kit. I wouldn't classify her dashes or CC as defensive option because they are also offensive options. Her dashes specifically have several drawbacks that I don't think you are considering either, and their defensive power (if used that way) are only problematic later in the game when she actually has all that CDR. Her CC, ya I can see the problems with it, but individually they aren't that strong, their strength comes from her cancelling and mobility. And Riven isn't the only one with these traits even if they aren't tanks, there are a number of other fighters and even mages that have several forms of CC, mobility, survivability and burst. Riven is a jack of all trades fighter champion, but that isn't necessarily a problem, her main issue is just being overtuned which is more problematic when she is because of her cancelling. >because you don't like or even agree with the opinions offered here doesn't make it a rant just like me disagreeing with everything you've said doesn't make yours a rant. The way you wrote your first giant paragraph, in my eyes, is clearly a rant. The last paragraph isn't, you actually had something to say about it and I generally agree with what you said there >i clearly deconstructed the problem with her kit, being low CD and no mana so there's not incentive for critical thinking, and offered a solution in Mana to curb that. because increasing her Cooldowns would probably actually ruin the champion. allow her to abuse her low CD's for a while before exhausting her mana, leaving a wider window of opportunity for counterplay. Again my main problem is that it took you until the very end of the post to actually address what you thought the key issues were. You could have gone more in-depth and you probably should have because I don't think you deconstructed it per se, but you definitely hit some of the huge pain points. Now her not requiring critical thinking I blatantly disagree with, but I do agree that just increasing her cooldowns would just kill her. There are other ways of giving a wider window of opportunity for counterplay besides Mana and cooldowns, surely, but mainly cooldowns will do the trick, and this is mostly an issue mid-late game when she has max or near max CDR. I personally think she needs some form of gating or another way to better balance her, but as I said earlier, I don't think Mana is the way to go. > though i will cede you one point...i was wrong on her AD ratio on her shield....my bad.... I see this too often. I completely understand typing something in the heat of the moment, but this happens so often nowadays, when like, the wiki exists, it's there... Although you might of been thinking of Urgot's shield ratio when you typed that because his IS 150% bonus AD.
Gixia (NA)
: As someone who's long wished to see Diana go in a bit more of a fighter-y direction, I would love it if they implemented changes like these.
Her kit translates into a fighter for me and personally I think thematically and gameplay wise she fits the game better as a fighter. She can fit a similar niche to champs like Riven or Wukong who are fighters but can op into assassins roles and playstyles, but her identity shouldnt be as an assassin.
: Thank you so much for the extensive analysis, this hits a lot of the areas I was hoping to discuss and read about. I won't be able to get through all of the points you've made but they're all very remarkable. The biggest gamble I want to suggest is the shift from expecting Diana to get her AS steroid from her spell cast rotation to just getting her to a point where she naturally grows into a fast-attacking champion. I tried putting that steroid elsewhere on the kit but it felt like it was extra buffs when trying to instead give the power through Q and the base. I do love a lot of your suggestions and will try to see if I can put some of them in to test.
Thank you for the reply! Sorry if the post came across a bit aggressive but I genuinely feel like the changes you made were simply out of touch with what we believe Diana actually needs. Some of the changes you made are a step in the right direction or just pretty nice in general but just not what we think she really needs or what the Diana mains really want to see changed. They mostly want a small rework, and I agree, she needs it to escape her identity crisis. The thing about the AS change is that I don't think it truly fits Diana in the current state of the game. Giving Diana an AS steroid does several things for her, namely a smooth combat pattern, varied builds, dueling power, and tower pushing power, and lets not forget jungle clearing, which is a MAJOR painpoint for many Diana mains. As it stands I don't think Diana can function with just higher base AS. This is mostly because of her base kit not having an identity and her limited build paths between AP and AS. Her only useful AS item is Nashor's and it is an amazing item for her, however, its the only one. Full AP Diana does not always opt into Nashor's and because of this she loses a lot of dueling power and tower pushing power. Going for a more Bruiser style build would be nice, except there is no real itemization that would make this work with her kit. As it stands her kit is a mix between a fighter and an assassin but excels at neither. This puts her in a weird position where she can't make either build truly effective without being overtuned and the downside of this is that her diver/fighter build and playstyle takes the hit. Her numbers simply do not support a fighter playstyle on their own, and when combined with poor itemization she is left in the poor state she is in now. The AS steroid was a way for her to be relevant in fights when she needed to be and so she could play around with builds without feeling useless. The base AS buff is nice, but I don't think she will be able to compete with other champions unless she has that steroid or some other form of dueling power (like my Moonlight on-hit suggestion) because she has poor itemization that will not mesh very well with a poor kit and lack of identity. Going forward I think it would be best if you think about which playstyle you want these changes to impact, granted there will be some beneficial overlap, but you would need to take itemization and possibly runes into account. I like that you are aware that the AS change is a gamble but I think more can be done with it.
: The Problem With Riven, And Many Others.
The Problem With Posts Like This, and Many Others. Your post is one of the most grotesque exampls so I'll be using it. > So...on top of having next to no CDs , one of three shields in the game that scales with AD the other two being Urgot who has a longer CD and mana(and he is still busted mind you but not really for that reason tbh) and Kled who's AD shield is packed into his Ultimate while Rivens is on a 3 sec(6 post nerf thank the gods) with one of the highest base shield HP in the game, as well as scaling with 150% of her AD...which again there are three moves that do that ...in the game...the other two are an ult....and a significantly longer CD move with MANA! The Cooldown argument that has been beaten to death. I get that she is frustrating with SoS, but early her cooldowns are not that low, only if she is rushing a lot of CDR early. She has one of 3 AD scaling shields in the game......and? At face value, what's the problem with having an AD scaling shield? And your reason for her having an AD scaling shield is problematic because its nitpicking details of abilities. Yes Urgot's AD scaling shield has a mana cost and a long cooldown, but what does it also do? Gap-close, Damage, CC, and the shield itself has a higher AD ratio and duration and even has a bonus HP ratio. Riven's does not have damage or CC, and only has a 1.5 second duration. Kled's AD Scaling shield is a long range Movement ability that grants allies movement speed, does damage, CC's, and has a massive Shield, but as you said, it IS his Ult. So what do their shields have that Riven's doesn't? Damage, CC, other effects, longer duration. NATURALLY they would have trade-offs for having more things involved with the ability. Riven's E does 2 things, dash and shield. Not to mention that her shield only has 1.5 second duration and a lower AD scaling than even Urgot's shield at 100% bonus AD, not the 150% AD that you said (seriously if you are going to complain at least get your numbers right). She also needs the higher base Shield and frequency because she's squishier than both of these champions. Urgot has higher base defensives and is ranged, and Kled has far more health because of Skarl and a brief invulnerability. > moving away from that for a moment....Riven also has an AOE stun...an AoE execute with an AD steroid making her shield, AND DAMAGE even more fun and interactive, an aoe Knock up....4 dashes all with no mana, and thanks to riots brilliant idea to ,for some ungodly reason, REDUCE THE CD ON HER Q she'll now be even MORE MOBILE! and the funny thing is....they could do this, they could make her a spam champion with all of this garbage and make her so much easier to fight, and balance, by giving this mess and most of the other champions like her Mana (or at least energy, which is barely better lets be honest here) Without going into much detail, this is just pointless rambling. All you are doing is listing things in her kit and complaining that they exist. This is the issue with EVERY QQ post that comes up. There is no actual criticism and suggestion, the only thing present is the person listing everything in her kit and saying that she's problematic because she has this list of things in her kit, not WHY things in her kit are problematic. > now certain champions should probably remain manaless, like Garen, they're simple and straightforward as well as making them more friendly to newer players. but Champions like Riven, really need the mana to hold them in Check. there's not any thought put into it, they just GO and keep GOING because they don't get punished for it. they don't run out of mana. they're RARELY ,if ever, caught without one of their 4 dashes or shields or a dash AND a shield, off CD. I do think Riven could use some for of gating on her kit, I'm just not sure that Mana is the way to do it. This needs to be in RANT, not Gameplay. This is ranting about a problem in a way that offers absolutely nothing.
: Small Diana Gameplay changes coming to PBE
As with every other person who has commented so far, I also think these changes are terrible. **Simply put they completely miss the mark for the changes you were aiming for.** > In the meantime I’ve also been thinking about ways to add small improvements to Diana's kit to make her more enjoyable overall to play as and play against. Patch 7.14 had significant changes to Diana that brought her closer to being a very single-purpose AP assassin, while also gating her attack speed behind spellcasts. I want to try bringing her attack speed back to a more normal baseline and reducing her reliance on AP to succeed. Your changes do not follow this at all. To start, you said that you want to make her more enjoyable to play as and against with 'improvements'. The changes you made will actually make her even worse to play with for a few reasons. 1. **The loss of the AS steroid.** This is essential to Diana's play pattern and satisfaction because her base abilities early are not very strong and she needs to have DPS to succeed. The loss of AS makes her lose a window of power that was necessary to trade patterns, could lower her jungle clear health and speed, and when combined with the passive damage nerf it will maker her tower/split pushing power much, much weaker than it currently is unless you build enough attack speed to offset the nerf. Don't get me wrong, the buffed base AS and AS growth are wonderful changes, however these changes would only truly be felt when you are already building a lot of attack speed and would only maker her high AP bulid more clunky and less satisfying to play 2. **R reset time.** When combined with the lack of an AS steroid on her, this would make her even more clunky to play. You said you wanted to slightly increase her time to kill, that's fine, but this specific change comes with the downside that it makes her already weak and usually slow burst pattern early even worse. Diana is not going to one-shot someone early in most cases and will usually have to poke and then land a full combo with 2 R's in order to kill the target, and in clutch moments that 0.5 seconds could be the deciding factor in whether you die or they die and whether or not you can catch them before they escape. This is the exact same issue that arose when Pre-Rework Akali had her ult dash times messed with. This is also a slight nerf to her in-combat mobility, but the movement speed buff of her passive might heavily outweigh this change. 3. **E cooldown buff not hitting the mark.** This change doesn't necessarily go against the goals you set, they just don't hit the mark for what she needed. Don't get me wrong, this is one of the better changes you made, but this isn't what we needed. The primary issue with her E in terms of satisfaction and usability is how unreliable it is. As it stands this ability is only usable when the target is already close to you. The problems start when the target starts getting to the edge of the radius. This ability becomes really weird and frustrating when they reach the edge. Even if they are in range when the spell is casted, they will either walk of range during the cast time, or the ability will just not pull them at all even though they were clearly in range. While the cooldown change is nice because it would buff her sticking potential top-lane and massively increase her sticking power late-game, it doesn't fix the core issues with the ability. Besides the problems with its reliablity at the edge of the radius, it is also a nearly dead jungle spell until lv6 and is only used for the AS steroid increase, it is also nearly useless against ranged match-ups pre-6. You also said you are changing her AS so that she relies less on AP to succeed. This won't work because in order for her to succeed with less AP, her kit needs to be able to function with other builds that focus less on AP. Not to mention you nerfed the AP ratio on her passive, which would would make non AP builds weaker, and would require more AP to offset the nerf. The only viable builds that would work for her that involve less AP are on-hit DPS builds and bruiser builds. The DPS builds could work with the base AS buff, would be a bit weaker because of the passive damage nerf. The bruiser builds would be less effective than pure DPS, because while you do have higher mana, base AS, lower E cd, and the new MS buff, there is no proper AP bruiser itemization, her Shield is too reliant on high amounts of AP to be effective, she does not have good DPS without Nashor's, and she has no form of tank-busting innately to deal with other fighters and tanks. _**SUGGESTIONS**_ * **Lower her base AS (lower than 0.725, but much higher than 0.625. Keep her AS steroid after ability cast, but change its scaling to be less explosive and more manageable with the higher base AS.** In terms of satisfaction a mix of both changes would be ideal. Having a higher base AS would open up more viable builds and increase early game satisfaction and the AS steroid would still give her windows of power, but would have to be tuned so that her AS post change and pre change comes out roughly the same when using AS steroid. * **Don't nerf her early base Mana as hard, keep the Mana growth buff, keep the removal of passive Mana restore**. Overall these are nice changes actually. The reason I'm suggesting on making the base Mana nerf less harsh is because to try and keep some of the suggestions power-neutral, I will be suggesting lowering her Mana regen and/or Mana regen growth, and slightly uping some of her mana costs (by like 5, maybe 10 for her E or R, but not all abilities will get a mana cost change. * **Keep the passive Movement speed buff, or put the movement speed buff on her W.** I actually quite like this change, and honestly it could work on her W as well granted the MS increase is higher on her W because it would be utilized less often, especially if you are focusing on DPS. If the MS buff is good enough, then I would keep the AP ration nerf to offset its power a little. * **Keep her E cooldown buff, and make it more reliable to use when champions are closer to the edge by hitting the pull directly and/or messing with the cast time and channeling.** The buff is nice, and I would keep it, but the ability really only needs QOL changes to make it more reliable and satisfying. If the E is better to use and she gets MS on her passive, then naturally this ability should also get a slight nerf to it to compensate. Lowering the slow % would do the trick sich her sticking power is already more frequent and reliable from other changes. * **Remove the R reset Nerf.** There are other ways to increase her time to kill without making her clunky. * **Keep the fog-of-war change on her Q, it's actually kind of nice to have that option.** * **Increase her base AD.** IF AND ONLY IF YOU INTEND TO GO THROUGH WITH _YOUR_ ATTACK SPEED CHANGES, then please increase her base AD so it doesn't feel like she is hitting someone with a wet noodle. Would also help offset the AP nerf to her passive slightly and while may be hitting people is massive bursts of speed like she did, they are slightly faster on a base level and hit a little harder. * **Buff her base Shield, lower the shield's AP ratio, possibly add a bonus HP ratio or Mana ratio.** If you want her to succeed with less AP then her W ABSOLUTELY needs to be functional at less AP. Giving her a better base shield would already help her other builds and should be a nerf to her full AP build, and if you have to you could add the bonus HP or Mana ratios as other ways to the make the shield good without he need for a lot of AP. Naturally this change would come of a nerf to offset it, something like lower damage, slightly higher cooldown, or slightly higher mana cost, or a combination of them would do. * **Using R on a Moonlight marked target no longer removes all other Moonlight marks from other targets.** This is something a lot of Diana players want, while it would probably have to come with some kind of nerf, it would help her reliability and satisfaction a bit. * **Nerf her burst, but buff her DPS.** How you do this is up to you, but I think it is necessary for her health and balance based on the changes you presented. I have my own suggestion, but he only problem with mine is that is might require a VFX change, but hopefully it won't. The Suggestion is this: **_Enemies marked by Moonlight now take X(+Y% AP) bonus magic damage from Diana's basic attacks and Lunar Rush._** This change would be accompanied by a very slight nerf to her Q damage and a slightly higher nerf to her R damage, but would also work with your Passive damage nerf, and should NOT be done with by base AD buff suggestion. This would lower her burst a bit, but give her more dueling power and DPS in moments of power. Her ult would be less bursty overall except when reset with Q. I don't think this is a heavy Mechanic change at all, but the main issue with it is that you might have to add a VFX for when the damage is dealt. However, the VFX change wouldn't have to happen if you just don't make a VFX change at all, or preferably make Diana use her Crit animation when attacking enemies marked with Moonlight. Most of your changes, and some of mine, are either power shifts or buffs accompanied by compensation nerfs. Overall if the combined list is less power neutral then desired, then naturally you would have to make more nerfs to compensate assuming you can find the proper areas to nerf. Some of YOUR changes are nice in concept but they miss YOUR mark and would only hurt Diana in other ways that as you can tell do not make Diana players very happy.
: Battle Academia Skins (Ezreal, Graves, Katarina, Jayce, Lux and Yuumi)
I was really looking forward to this skin line, but this is dissapointing. We knew yuumi was getting one, and Jayce was pretty obvious, but Graves as the teacher I did not expect and I really like it. The problem is Lux and Ezreal. These 2 SHOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN THESE SKINS. Lux does not need anymore skins and Ez doesn't really need another one either. The other problem is that this and Star Guardian overlap on their design base. Lux and Ez now each have 2 skins where they are superpowered highschoolers. Just why.
: Early 9.10 Patch Discussion
Do you know what kind of changes Riven will be getting or at least the general goals of the changes?
Meddler (NA)
: Hasn't tested particularly well. Was popular but pretty degenerate, given it let a strong lane counter become an all purpose late game item without sufficient trade offs. Trying a different direction for Wit's End as a result.
I think Zephyr could still work, but only if you tweak a few problematic parts of the kit. They way I see it the problems with the item are 1) Too much movement speed, making it a lategame boots replacement for nearly half the champion pool. 2) Stacking resistances on-hit, gives waaaay too much defensive power with NO trade-offs. 3) Too much on-hit damage, 50 on-hit damage is a lot for an item with that much defensive power. The item needs to be a little less generically powerful and have trade offs. Here is my suggestion. 1. Remove the stacking resistances of Wit's End and Madred's and reduce their prices 2. Reduce the price of Zephyr a small amount. 3. Nerf the movement speed to 5%. 4. Remove the dual-resistance stacking on Zephyr. 5. Reduce the on-hit damage to 40 6. Add a new active with the effect: For the next 4ish seconds, you lose the armor and mr of this item, but gain 20% attack speed, 10% movement speed, and 40 more on-hit damage (90 second cooldown). This way the item could fit a different design niche compared to other items, have a tradeoff for a winder of power, and have more fair base stats. {{item:3172}} Zephyr 3000 gold Recipe: Wit's End + Madred's Bloodrazor + gold (the reduced gold amount for the componenets would probably be around 1200-1300) +40% AS +40 Armor +40 MR +5% Movement Speed Unique Passive: +40 on-hit magic damage. Unique Passive - Tenacity: Reduces the duration of stuns, slows, taunts, fears, silences, blinds, polymorphs, and immobilizes by 35%. Unique Active: For 4 seconds, lose 40 Armor and MR, but gain 20% Attack Speed, 10% Movement Speed, and an additional +40 on-hit magic damage. (90 Second Cooldown) Even with this version though the numbers might still be too high and would have to be lowered, but I think this would be a better version of the item because some of its more problematic stats were lowered and and it gives an active that is a moment of power with a large tradeoff.
: Riven dealt me 500 dmg on 1 lvl
{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
: OIffensive posts will NOT be toiletrated
Moody P (NA)
: Possible Wits End/Zephyr rework
This looks awesome. It's a good way to bring back bloodrazor, make Wit's end less of a niche pick, and make zephyr a non-boots-replacement item. I'm All for it. For clarity and flair they could make it so that your character is surrounded by winds when the resists are fully stacked, would look like a shield, but would serve a thematic purpose and gameplay clarity purpose as well. And this way Yasuo can acutally build a fucking wind sword item, rip stormrazor.
: A friend is just an enemy you haven't betrayed yet.
username checks out
: I wish I could gift you my blue essence. You could buy the whole roster and never worry about blue essence again.
KueˆT (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Zaghyr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JME7Yf0F,comment-id=00040001000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-28T04:29:48.021+0000) > > I'm not getting defensive per se, I'm just really confused. What you said doesn't make any sense to me. And yes I am poor in essence, I only have enough to get about 2-3 champs, while i have 3 or 4 close to lv7 Mhm, Well I was saying I feel that its a "More thoughtful" way of expressing your love for a champion and devoting essence to the score.
I can understand the sentiment, but my problem with this is that it feels frustrating instead of being an accomplishment. It is basically telling you to play a champion, get good at them, master them, and then you won't be able to show your mastery because it is behind a paywall. Getting 3 lv7 shards is already a grind as it is for some champs, but putting the mastery behind another wall doesn't feel rewarding, it feels repetitive.
Minarde (NA)
: I'm guessing the intended message is "If you really cared about that champion, you wouldn't mind investing the Essense into that champ." So basically "No true Scotsman," applied to Champion Mastery.
I can understand that, i just disagree with it.
KueˆT (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Zaghyr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JME7Yf0F,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2019-02-27T20:14:12.415+0000) > > What the hell are you talking about?{{sticker:sg-lux-2}} Why are you getting defensive? At this point you're inclining me to assume that you're poor when it comes to essence, Given that you probably are.
I'm not getting defensive per se, I'm just really confused. What you said doesn't make any sense to me. And yes I am poor in essence, I only have enough to get about 2-3 champs, while i have 3 or 4 close to lv7
KueˆT (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Zaghyr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JME7Yf0F,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-27T16:52:13.583+0000) > > If anything, they need to remove the Blue Essence cost to GET the mastery. I've already fucking proved myself on the champion, WHY do I have to PAY in order to show my mastery, when I have have already put the time in and gotten the S's, and use an in-game currency that accumulates extremely slowly? Their is nothing special or good about having to spend currency to 'prove' that you mastered something when you already have and have the shards and cp to prove it. I never understood why they game it a cost. I had to sit on 3 lv7 Xayah shards for a couple weeks before I had enough BE to 'show' my mastery. If you really cared about the champions kit and gameplay and it suits you Blue Essence wouldn't be a problem {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
What the hell are you talking about?{{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
zPity (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Zaghyr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JME7Yf0F,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-27T16:52:13.583+0000) > > If anything, they need to remove the Blue Essence cost to GET the mastery. I've already fucking proved myself on the champion, WHY do I have to PAY in order to show my mastery, when I have have already put the time in and gotten the S's, and use an in-game currency that accumulates extremely slowly? Their is nothing special or good about having to spend currency to 'prove' that you mastered something when you already have and have the shards and cp to prove it. I never understood why they game it a cost. I had to sit on 3 lv7 Xayah shards for a couple weeks before I had enough BE to 'show' my mastery. or if you are like me, I own all champs, so i just save shards of the champs i want to bump up in mastery (cost = 0)
Lucky...... I only have like 13 or 14 to go, which is why this is so annoying, I have to choose between mastery or a champion
: Riot, it's time to remove the champion mastery level cap.
If anything, they need to remove the Blue Essence cost to GET the mastery. I've already fucking proved myself on the champion, WHY do I have to PAY in order to show my mastery, when I have have already put the time in and gotten the S's, and use an in-game currency that accumulates extremely slowly? Their is nothing special or good about having to spend currency to 'prove' that you mastered something when you already have and have the shards and cp to prove it. I never understood why they game it a cost. I had to sit on 3 lv7 Xayah shards for a couple weeks before I had enough BE to 'show' my mastery.
: I definitely feel you on AP fighter items. I think to some extent that's a side effect of how ability power works as a stat though. Attack damage has attack damage, base attack damage, attack speed, and Critical Strike chance, all of which feature into how much damage you deal on an attack and allow a lot of tuning on what characters prefer what items. Ability power, meanwhile, simply has ability power and to a lesser extent cooldown reduction. This means that an item that is useful on a Bruiser runs the potential of being overpowered on an assassin, or overpowered on a tank. Anything you make that appeals to bruisers will, by its very nature, be something that tanks and mages and supports can consider. It almost makes me wonder if base ability power should be a statistic, so that bruisers have some default damage scaling built-in and you could make items that utilize for add to that base ability power to offer bruisers itemization options but doesn't risk edging into the tank or assassin or Mage design space.
I think the bigger problem with AP fighter itemization is that Deathcap exists. Like you said, AP fighters have real stat that they can use to scale, and this makes it very hard to cater items to them. Right now AP itemization is really bad, and imo, it is because of Deathcap. Over the years Riot has continuously reduced the AP of most items and just increased the %AP bonus of Deathcap, while messing with AP ratios on champions. The changes that they have made requires AP champions to go either full Magic Pen, which is way too strong early game, or Rabadons, otherwise they will not scale into lategame. This is a problem for AP Fighters because since their only scaling stat is AP, riot has to be very careful with their numbers. If you give them high base damage to make up for their low AP numbers lategame, then they will just be played as tanks. If you give them lower base damage and really high AP scaling, like Sylas, in order for them to get more value out of the smaller amount of AP they SHOULD be building, then will just be going full AP and turn into assassins. Deathcap existing will remove the middle ground for AP bruisers because the %AP bonus is too explosive and polarize them into tanks or assassins. As long as Deathcap exists, AP bruisers would never be able to exist alongside regular AP champions because they wouldn't be able to balance AP for both classes unless they added ridiculous effects onto new bruiser items. Personally I don't think Deathcap should give bonus %AP at all, it should have some other defined purpose. Same reason why I don't care for IE, these items are designed in a way that makes them mandatory, which I don't think is good design. The other thing they could do for AP Bruisers, and for some mages in general, is give them Mana scalings like Ryze. For regular mages this would let Mana stackers compete with Magic Pen and Deathcap mages and open up more build options. For AP fighters, this would allow them to scale really hard with more bruiser based items, like RoA, Abyssal Mask, Iceborn Gauntlet, etc.
: Why has there been nothing said from a Rioter on the input buffering bugs plaguing Riven, Yasuo ect.
They are aware of it. A hotfix won't be able to fix it so they are redeploying the patch on monday to fix it. The bug has to do with attack moving
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 22
: Unpopular opinion. Riven should ONLY have a reflex shields.
How did this make it onto this board.....
: Players that are not listening to shotcalls should be banned
: Riven
Because this never happened.
: I know, the majoriy of people on here aren't high enough MMR to understand anything, and they get triggered when confronted with things they can't argue toward.
While your facts are right, your attitude isn't. You are suggesting that anyone who is low elo does not have good game knowledge or enough for what they say to matter. This is blatantly wrong and is a crude generalization of players. Players are low elo for a variety of reasons. They may be bad, they may not like to play ranked, they may have a life outside of league and not have a lot of time to play, they might not have great communication skills, they might not have great mechanical skill. It does not always come down to them not having game knowledge. All you are doing is bashing the players who have played this game for 8+ years who, while not being as technically skilled, have significant game knowledge but can't always utilize it effectively. Not all high elo players are high and mighty in terms of game knowledge. It is pathetic how many times I have seen a stream highlight or other clip of 'high elo' player saying something stupid or just getting something blatantly wrong, whether its details about an ability, how a champions kit works entirely, recent changes that were released, etc. and sounding like a bronze player on his first day of ranked.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 20
Thoughts on Xayah? She has been very weak for a looooong time now. Would love a response after getting radio silence for the last few months on the topic.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 15
What are your thoughts on {{champion:498}}? She has been weak for a very long time now and while having Essence Reaver again is nice, the crit item changes as a whole have not helped her.
drash79 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ArandomCanadain,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=17waMEg9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-13T03:27:24.264+0000) > > ok, i cant tell if you're kidding or not. im gonna ask you to tell me your reason if you're serious > If not good troll. > if you are serious go watch this video > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBZd3rF1H1c Are you stupid, a keystone that is both true damage and a deathstance, while giving ad while immediately giving ad doesn't sound overturned to you? Plus, no. I am not watching hashinshin, he only complains about stuff, to hide his lack of skill.
> Are you stupid, a keystone that is both true damage and a deathstance, while giving ad while immediately giving ad doesn't sound overturned to you? > > Plus, no. I am not watching hashinshin, he only complains about stuff, to hide his lack of skill. He isn't but you might be. Doesn't matter what the keystone gives, what matters is the numbers. The keystone can be perfectly balanced based on its numbers.
: They are buffing ER, a historical rush item for her, so I suspect that they don't want to touch her till ER is buffed.
I don't think +5 AD is going to do much. Will it make the item better? Yes. Will it feel better to use powerwise? Yes. But, it won't put Xayah back into a good spot, direct changes to her will have to be made to really help her. I do think her WR will go up when the Conqueror rework is released. I have tested it a lot and have had both a lot of fun and success with it. But even then she would still need help.
Åtvid4Life (EUNE)
: 7 patches is quite an understatement. She's been weak since 8.11.
imo her power really started dropping after 8.19, she could keep herself afloat between then and 8.11 but now she's just been garbage for many patches now
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 13
What are your thoughts on {{champion:498}}? She has been fairly weak for nearly 7 patches now and the ADC changes have done little to help her. Do you have any plans for buffs for her?
DaBooosh (NA)
: 53% because players don't know how to deal with Yasuo
> [{quoted}](name=DaBooosh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bBsiovNW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-09T13:25:48.543+0000) > > 53% because players don't know how to deal with Yasuo Lol, they WOULD know how do deal with him if they didn't ban him 73% of the time and actually took the time to learn how he works and how to beat him.
Morgentau (EUW)
: Question for Riven Mains
She can be a large AOE disruptor, she can execute key targets when initiating fights, she can splitpush becuase of inherent wave-clear, etc. Basically she is a jack of all trades, master of none champion who can fulfill multiple rolls depending on what you need.
: I just tested the Riven VFX update on PBE and it feels very incomplete
There are different VFX changes on the PBE than the ones listed in this video, and they are much better than these.
: Ask Riot
This is something that was done of real-life gladiatorial settings. The black paint serves to reduce glare from the sun and its reflections off of things like sand. This way fighters don't get blinded while fighting.
5050BS (NA)
: Riot Why is Yasuo's Q (an AOE for both its uses) heal for 100% LifeSteal?
His Q is treated as a basic attack, and Lifesteal and on-hit effects are only applied to closest (for 1st and 2nd cast) or first (for 3rd) target hit. So while his Q does do aoe damage, it behaves like a basic attack and only applies lifesteal on one target, not all of them.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zaghyr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rZrpdW2t,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-03T02:38:45.460+0000) > > You're seriously going to keep arguing? Again you are narrow-minded and you are only looking at the number of dashes and ignoring the distance of the dashes themselves. Each of Riven's 4 dashes are fairly short in distance on their own. 260 units for Q and 325 for E, for a total of 1105 distance traveled. > > Fiora's Q has a range of 400, and later in the game with some CDR and hitting an enemy her W is on a shorter cooldown than Riven's shield is at MAX CDR, so she only needs to cast the thing 3 times in order to beat Riven in mobility, and even with the cooldown of her Q, this can still be done within Riven's Q cooldown timer. Oh ya, and Fiora gets bonus movement speed from her passive too. > > Renekton's E is 450 on each dash for 900 total, which beats Riven's Q entirely, and only requires 2 inputs, albeit you do need to damage something for the second dash. > > Lee Sin's Q can make him dash up to 1300 and his shield 700. > > Irelia Q is 600. Meaning killing a target or procing a mark already puts her ahead of Riven. > > Camille has 1200 total range on Hookshot and gets movement speed from her Q. > > While Riven's mobility IS unconditional, each of her dashes are short on their own and even when they are all added together they are still outmatched by other champions. Those other champions DO have conditions for their mobility, but they have to have those conditions for that much mobility to be fair. Riven is also fair because her unconditional mobility is kept in line by that fact that it is gated behind 2 different abilities, requires 4 inputs, and is VERY dependent on CDR. Do you want to keep going? Again entirely ignoring the point. She has unconditional mobility. Renekton has to hit enemies, Camille has to hit enemies and be near a wall, Irelia has to have a target Lee sin has to hit a enemy or have a ward/ally unit fiora gets half the fucking range of riven. What does riven have to do again? Head but her fucking keyboard with her mouse in the right direction? You completely ignore the point of UNCONDITIONAL. no cost. Low cooldowns with any form of cdr. And even has fucking cc tied to one of them Incase someone was able to keep up.
Read my last paragraph again, since you completely missed what I said. I will say it again in a way that you can understand. Riven's mobility is unconditional, yes, but has the downside of being split on 2 abilities, requiring 4 inputs, and each dash very short on its own. CDR will not be considered because Riven's mobility is not the only one affected by CDR. The other champions all have the same, if not stronger, mobility because they have harder conditions to meet. Camille's E and Lee's Q are absolutely insane mobility tools that leave Riven in the gutter in comparison, but in exchange for that strength they have harder conditions to meet. This is not a hard concept. Weaker mobility = less conditions, stronger mobility = harder conditions. That's called balance. While there are cases where this is ignored, this is mostly true. In regards to Riven specifically you are also ignoring what using her mobility means for the rest of her gameplay. Her shield, one of her CC, and her primary damage ability are all tied to her mobility, meaning in some cases she will have to trade one thing for the other. And in order to perform certain combos you are sacrificing mobility for combo speed. You're ignoring the conditions of her mobility and the trade-offs.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zaghyr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rZrpdW2t,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-02-02T20:56:03.768+0000) > > And you are wrong on both accounts. I'm not a Riven one-trick, just a main. And I never said she isn't mobile, I said she isn't AS mobile as other similar champions. Your comment just shows how salty and narrow-minded you are about this. What similar champion not named akali has 4 unconditional dashes in their kit?
You're seriously going to keep arguing? Again you are narrow-minded and you are only looking at the number of dashes and ignoring the distance of the dashes themselves. Each of Riven's 4 dashes are fairly short in distance on their own. 260 units for Q and 325 for E, for a total of 1105 distance traveled. Fiora's Q has a range of 400, and later in the game with some CDR and hitting an enemy her W is on a shorter cooldown than Riven's shield is at MAX CDR, so she only needs to cast the thing 3 times in order to beat Riven in mobility, and even with the cooldown of her Q, this can still be done within Riven's Q cooldown timer. Oh ya, and Fiora gets bonus movement speed from her passive too. Renekton's E is 450 on each dash for 900 total, which beats Riven's Q entirely, and only requires 2 inputs, albeit you do need to damage something for the second dash. Lee Sin's Q can make him dash up to 1300 and his shield 700. Irelia Q is 600. Meaning killing a target or procing a mark already puts her ahead of Riven. Camille has 1200 total range on Hookshot and gets movement speed from her Q. While Riven's mobility IS unconditional, each of her dashes are short on their own and even when they are all added together they are still outmatched by other champions. Those other champions DO have conditions for their mobility, but they have to have those conditions for that much mobility to be fair. Riven is also fair because her unconditional mobility is kept in line by that fact that it is gated behind 2 different abilities, requires 4 inputs, and is VERY dependent on CDR. Do you want to keep going?
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Zaghyr

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