: Why a lot of people hates current Karma state ? She is one of the funniest champs on LOL !
She's simply a jack of all trades, which means she can do everything, but everything she does is subpar to everyone else who excels at that particular role. Top: Any smart top player will bide their time and just play safe until they can outscale her. Mid: Falls off late game and becomes a secondary support. Support: Other support does every support thing she does better. The only thing powerful about her is her RE because of her teamfight capabilities. Remove any part of that, she is pretty garbage during teamfights. Basically, all her power is relegated into that Mantra form, meaning the rest of her kit is meh. Current Karma represent a lot of things that people don't like: 1) Poor kit cohesion (see above) 2) Poor treatment of the mains community 3) Poor kit balance 4) Bland lore 5) Overbuffed compensation due to 1)
: > [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=rcLxFl3X,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-05T04:58:21.373+0000) > > That's why i hate massive retcons... > > Riot, don't do that, for the love of god. Dont do what? GIve hero a new VO? Even in the original lore she was a professional dancer or something that wanted to join the League and died in a botched tower diving exercise. Not exactly a crazed robo killer. Seems like riot changed their minds rather quickly about what they wanted Ori to be.
> [{quoted}](name=Ahri Body Pillow,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=rcLxFl3X,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-05T05:06:40.540+0000) > > Dont do what? GIve hero a new VO? Even in the original lore she was a professional dancer or something that wanted to join the League and died in a botched tower diving exercise. Not exactly a crazed robo killer. Seems like riot changed their minds rather quickly about what they wanted Ori to be. Orianna, the champion, wasn't a professional dancer in the old lore. She was a robot like Blitz. The original story was that the real Orianna, the father's daughter, who was talented in dancing, wanted to join League and died during a training session. The father made Orianna, the champion, from metal and was named after his daughter, hence, being the "clockwork" girl. This Orianna joined League in the dead one's place to fulfill her "father's" wishes. She is soulless and mimicks what the "real" Orianna would do. If you look into her Judgement story, she does not have humanity, yet tries to understand what it is, either figuratively or literally ("taking them apart"). The current iteration of Orianna does not have humanity either, having given away the last bit of her, the literal heart, to her father so that he could live. She is not a cyborg. She is fully robotic. The issue with this story is that they didn't write the reason behind why she is with League, which complicates things. Both are tragic stories and both versions are striving to find what/who they are in Runeterra.
Rioter Comments
kuzzy47 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Saianna,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TNUEs733,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-05-05T15:54:36.696+0000) > > But remember folks its the dirty MAGES that shouldn't have spellvamp in this game. Funny cuz mage burst is best counter to these ad healing champs.
> [{quoted}](name=kuzzy47,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TNUEs733,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-05-05T16:27:04.012+0000) > > Funny cuz mage burst is best counter to these ad healing champs. {{item:3155}} can counter them right back.
Psi21 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ZapMyHeart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HxsmfY3a,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-18T03:28:11.577+0000) > > Clearly you haven't played long enough if you haven't recognized Rito's pattern of buffs and nerfs. They don't give a rat's ass about whether they made two wrongs or more wrongs. > > See: Karma's relaunch. Keeping certain champs below average. Ranked queues. matchmaking. Certain champion bias. > > You say you been playing since beta? Were you playing Co-op only? You clearly haven't been playing the game if you think this is the first time Rito pulled this nonsense. A simple look at the Boards since 2012 could easily tell you how bad their decision making has become. > > As such, this is basically a knee jerk remedial change due to the culmination of years of abuse from the ARAM-only account. Not like Rito won't correct it; just that it will take months of complaints for them to rebalance this mess. > > It's the same thing they always do. I'm sure you already know this, considering you play the game since beta (doubt that this is your real account). And clearly you don't read. Because I have proven I played far longer than you. Your Karma tangent is nothing to do with the conversation. But But this .... I was on and participated on the boards from 2011. Clearly your the one with the lacking experience I have 10s of 1000s of games in each of major rotations of custom games. Why can't you understand. The change to remove bans was pretty immediate. Because *ding *ding as stated above it was having the desired opposite effect and was helping ARAM-only 5 man premade groups with a similar roster to get the champs they wanted. How can you not understand that??? And LoL this is my real account.
> [{quoted}](name=Psi21,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HxsmfY3a,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-18T17:20:30.450+0000) > > And clearly you don't read. Because I have proven I played far longer than you. > > Your Karma tangent is nothing to do with the conversation. But But this .... > > I was on and participated on the boards from 2011. Clearly your the one with the lacking experience I have 10s of 1000s of games in each of major rotations of custom games. > > Why can't you understand. The change to remove bans was pretty immediate. Because *ding *ding as stated above it was having the desired opposite effect and was helping ARAM-only 5 man premade groups with a similar roster to get the champs they wanted. How can you not understand that??? > > And LoL this is my real account. And clearly you don't read either. Your length of play in the game doesn't mean much, considering I've been playing the game since 2011, making me just as qualified, if you are going to flaunt your sign up date. Besides, you could have easily just bought the account when selling accounts were rampant back then. Also, you're*. If you been playing the game for that long, as you claim, you should already know about the difference between your and you're. It's been a meme for years. There's really no excuse for you not to know the difference. Clearly you haven't played the game long enough if you can't even understand the simple fact that Rito does what it wants. You state that you were on the boards from 2011? Doubt it, considering you can't even understand that simple fact that I listed above. What's the chance of getting a 5-man premade on ARAM? Not very likely. Unless you are also on a 4 or 5-man yourself. Therefore, this is an outlier issue. Not hard to understand??? When Riot's bottom line is affected, they simply change it. As seen in how fast they reverted the change of bans, it's clear that those ARAM only accounts were quitting in droves, making them lose $$$. Same reason why they are afraid to nerf Yasuo, Zed, and Riven to the ground. We haven't seen the last of bans, as a good chunk of players aren't happy with how it's playing out. They got a taste of it and they aren't going to stop.
Psi21 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ZapMyHeart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HxsmfY3a,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-17T05:03:19.364+0000) > > Yes. > > Are you new to this game? > > Rito has always overcompensated on buffs and they don't pick the obvious solution. See my post above. > > ARAM-only accounts ruined the mode because they abuse the lottery system by only buying squishy, long ranged characters with lots of CC (for the most part). > > Hence, Rito's new changes. > > Rito not only corrects this via the bans, but make sure to overcompensate buffing by allowing those with tankier/melee champions to get the edge now with buffs + towers crumbling under Demolish, giving those melee/tank champions a better win outcome to "make up" for previous games. > > Is it fair? > > Absolutely not. > > However, people can't blame it entirely on Riot, when that was their way for the longest time. > > Point the fingers at ARAM-only accounts. They started this ball rolling. > > The rest of us are simply caught in their selfishness. You couldn't be more wrong. Been playing the game since beta. Which is more than I can say for you. I am sure you probably didn't even recognize my icon (Xmas Baron) I am sporting from 2012. But here is a post all the way from 2011. So yeah I KNOW THIS GAME. http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?page=1&t=463465 1. Riot took the ban system out of TRAMP The ban system was making it easy for 5 man teams in the higher MMR with a similar roster to select their champ on ARAM only accounts. 3 weeks of rotation just wasn't enough to prevent eliminating 5 of the unwanted champs. Don't get what you like dodge try again. 2. "Long Range characters with lots of CC" you would like to think the damage nerf would then go to Jinx or Caitlyn. But bluntly mages were affected. The only champs that have always gotten out scaled by broken tanky dps. 3. "Is it fair? Absolutely not" - So you think a professional company is going to use the term two wrongs make a right? You have lot to learn about business. 4. The weaker towers to help diving tankie dps who is abusing Warmogs doesn't make a good ARAM game. In fact two tankie dps teams butting heads makes the game boring as hell and with very little skill (which I think you probably enjoy). 5. ARAM only accounts have been around, forever and why not, there are more accounts/"what they call players" that Riot can boast they have over the competition.
> [{quoted}](name=Psi21,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HxsmfY3a,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-17T23:57:00.987+0000) > > You couldn't be more wrong. Been playing the game since beta. Which is more than I can say for you. I am sure you probably didn't even recognize my icon (Xmas Baron) I am sporting from 2012. But here is a post all the way from 2011. So yeah I KNOW THIS GAME. > > http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?page=1&t=463465 > > 1. Riot took the ban system out of TRAMP > The ban system was making it easy for 5 man teams in the higher MMR with a similar roster to select their champ on ARAM only accounts. 3 weeks of rotation just wasn't enough to prevent eliminating 5 of the unwanted champs. Don't get what you like dodge try again. > > 2. "Long Range characters with lots of CC" you would like to think the damage nerf would then go to Jinx or Caitlyn. But bluntly mages were affected. The only champs that have always gotten out scaled by broken tanky dps. > > 3. "Is it fair? Absolutely not" - So you think a professional company is going to use the term two wrongs make a right? You have lot to learn about business. > > 4. The weaker towers to help diving tankie dps who is abusing Warmogs doesn't make a good ARAM game. In fact two tankie dps teams butting heads makes the game boring as hell and with very little skill (which I think you probably enjoy). > > 5. ARAM only accounts have been around, forever and why not, there are more accounts/"what they call players" that Riot can boast they have over the competition. Clearly you haven't played long enough if you haven't recognized Rito's pattern of buffs and nerfs. They don't give a rat's ass about whether they made two wrongs or more wrongs. See: Karma's relaunch. Keeping certain champs below average. Ranked queues. matchmaking. Certain champion bias. You say you been playing since beta? Were you playing Co-op only? You clearly haven't been playing the game if you think this is the first time Rito pulled this nonsense. A simple look at the Boards since 2012 could easily tell you how bad their decision making has become. As such, this is basically a knee jerk remedial change due to the culmination of years of abuse from the ARAM-only account. Not like Rito won't correct it; just that it will take months of complaints for them to rebalance this mess. It's the same thing they always do. I'm sure you already know this, considering you play the game since beta (doubt that this is your real account).
Psi21 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ZapMyHeart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HxsmfY3a,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-16T02:45:25.164+0000) > > Blame it on all those ARAM-only accounts that abused the system then. So you think Riot making towers weaker, abusive tanky dps and warmogs are to be blamed on ARAM-only accounts??!? *Bogggle O.o o.O WTH are you talking about. Riot F-ed up ARAM plain and simple. This was a terrible upgrade. And it isn't ARAM it is TRAMP. Maybe ----> **T**anky **R**andom **A**ll **M**id **P**atch
> [{quoted}](name=Psi21,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HxsmfY3a,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-16T13:35:13.247+0000) > > So you think Riot making towers weaker, abusive tanky dps and warmogs are to be blamed on ARAM-only accounts??!? > > *Bogggle O.o o.O > > WTH are you talking about. > > Riot F-ed up ARAM plain and simple. This was a terrible upgrade. And it isn't ARAM it is TRAMP. > > Maybe ----> **T**anky **R**andom **A**ll **M**id **P**atch Yes. Are you new to this game? Rito has always overcompensated on buffs and they don't pick the obvious solution. See my post above. ARAM-only accounts ruined the mode because they abuse the lottery system by only buying squishy, long ranged characters with lots of CC (for the most part). Hence, Rito's new changes. Rito not only corrects this via the bans, but make sure to overcompensate buffing by allowing those with tankier/melee champions to get the edge now with buffs + towers crumbling under Demolish, giving those melee/tank champions a better win outcome to "make up" for previous games. Is it fair? Absolutely not. However, people can't blame it entirely on Riot, when that was their way for the longest time. Point the fingers at ARAM-only accounts. They started this ball rolling. The rest of us are simply caught in their selfishness.
Psi21 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ZapMyHeart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HxsmfY3a,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-15T05:38:45.969+0000) > > That solution is way too simple and straightforward for Rito to implement! > > Snark aside, financially speaking, Rito would be doing their coffers a diservice if they completely alienate all their ARAM-account players. At least the bans allows the rest of us to have a little breathing room at banning certain champions and making the games a bit more balanced. The certain ranged champs that all were nerfed? towers are weaker... tanky dps running rampant And how can you call it all random when champs are banned? Even more gap closers were put in the game and Warmogs is still a problem. No Snarkiness here Riot F-d up the game yet again.
> [{quoted}](name=Psi21,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HxsmfY3a,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-15T13:31:03.736+0000) > > The certain ranged champs that all were nerfed? > > towers are weaker... > > tanky dps running rampant > > And how can you call it all random when champs are banned? > > Even more gap closers were put in the game and Warmogs is still a problem. > > No Snarkiness here Riot F-d up the game yet again. Blame it on all those ARAM-only accounts that abused the system then.
: ARAM isn't ARAM with bans
That solution is way too simple and straightforward for Rito to implement! Snark aside, financially speaking, Rito would be doing their coffers a diservice if they completely alienate all their ARAM-account players. At least the bans allows the rest of us to have a little breathing room at banning certain champions and making the games a bit more balanced.
: Who has the best dance and why?
{{champion:420}} when she has tentacles up.
: What is everyone's favorite champion, and lore?
Old {{champion:61}} and old {{champion:43}} 's lore and Judgment story were my favorite. {{sticker:sg-soraka}}
Urgash (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Krofinn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YYb1RIl6,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-04-07T19:28:28.293+0000) > > I agree with almost everything here. > > Additional thoughts: I don't hate bans, it really helps with champ diversity... however, it slows down the start of matches, and I would prefer an alternative: Unlock all champs, and give everyone 1 reroll per completed match, with 1 reroll as the maximum. (Meaning each team should have a pool of up to 10 to choose from, supposing everyone uses the free reroll, but that's out of the FULL ROSTER.) > > > CHANGE RUNES THAT ARE USELESS IN ARAM- Make Ghost Poro great again, thanks. I would also prefer they unlock the full roster for everyone in ARAM, it would solve instantly the problem of "ARAM ACCOUNTS" I also agree on the runes, they are very eager to nerf runes that are too strong in aram (Dark Harvest for example), but they do nothing for totally useless runes, like Waterwalking for example.
> [{quoted}](name=Urgash,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YYb1RIl6,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-04-07T19:37:30.870+0000) > > I would also prefer they unlock the full roster for everyone in ARAM, it would solve instantly the problem of "ARAM ACCOUNTS" > > I also agree on the runes, they are very eager to nerf runes that are too strong in aram (Dark Harvest for example), but they do nothing for totally useless runes, like Waterwalking for example. Don't we know by now that Riot doesn't care for the obvious solution and goes about a problem in a roundabout way instead? The bans are simply a way to not completely alienate those ARAM-only accounts (which by the way, you aren't considered one, as that term applies to those accounts who **only** have S+/A+ tiered champs in their selection pool to beat the randomization odds of the mode), while making it a bit more fair to others.
: Now that ARAM has bans, let's talk about that.
{{champion:37}} -> {{champion:157}} -> {{champion:11}} -> {{champion:54}} Sona: Heal + poke is just deadly combination Yasuo: His wall becomes even more obnoxious on that mode. Plus, easy to land a 5 man ult. No thank you. Yi: Easy clean up janitor on that mode, making him hard to beat if he gets even slightly ahead. Malphite: His ult + my braindead teammates who loves to bunch up together around me makes for a fun time. Next!
: This doesn't feel like ARAM anymore: Bilgewater update...
Perhaps expand your playstyle to learn and try new champions? Many people aren't going to really judge you for not really knowing how to play a champ you aren't familiar (they usually side eye your build, if anything or if you keep going HAM 1 v 5). ARAM was never competitive, but because of all those ARAM only accounts that abused the system of pulling a champ only from their owned pool, it created an imbalance in winrate and what not. You shouldn't expect to always get your way in the game. That is called entitlement. Especially for a game mode that is randomized in nature to begin with. If you need to blame someone, curse those players who ruined the system to begin with. The bans are simply correcting the imbalance and forcing those ARAM only accounts to either adapt or choose another game mode.
: It'd be nice if my team would atleast ban shit that makes sense like: Brand, Mundo, Veigar, Zoe, MF Instead of seeing Pyke ??? get banned on both teams, blitzcrank, random shit like Darius? Ok
> [{quoted}](name=SpiritOfOdysseus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bUwqeoWz,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-04-03T22:59:05.021+0000) > > It'd be nice if my team would atleast ban shit that makes sense like: > > Brand, Mundo, Veigar, Zoe, MF > > Instead of seeing Pyke ??? get banned on both teams, blitzcrank, random shit like Darius? Ok Uh, not to be rude, but Pyke, Blitz, and Darius are pretty tough to play around. Pyke: Near impossible to kill due to his passive + easy resets with his ult. Blitz: 1 pull and you basically have 5 enemies collapsing on you. Before the minions even leave the fountain. Darius: Easy to AoE heal with how small the map is. Snowball allows him to chase with ease, taking out that Jugg weakness. And his resetting ult.
: would you play a vintage league ? one of the first versions of the game.
Yes. Because I would get to play old {{champion:43}} before she was ruined by a rushed rework.
: If void staff is going to have 40% magic pen, then achieving 150+ MR needs to be possible w/ 2 items
Then nerf tanks so they wouldn't be exploding carries with one rotation.
Rioter Comments
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=GreyfellD,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UumU8Bp4,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-03-12T14:59:44.047+0000) > > As usual, this guy is a RACIST. Guess its the way most modern companies are now. Blame your customers. How is that in anyway RACIST?
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UumU8Bp4,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-03-12T15:24:45.878+0000) > > How is that in anyway RACIST? Because she's a white woman and people be claiming reverse racism. Riven needs to check her white privilege.
: Remove oracles from ARAM?
Nah. Without it, Teemo's shrooms would be running rampant and destroying people left and right. I've played Teemo and it's all about utilizing his ult in a way that is strategic for both you and your team. Mainly, putting it in front of your tower to stop enemy waves, hiding them in bushes, so if enemies follow (even with Oracles), they would trigger it. Plus, you are forcing the enemy team to sink their precious gold into Oracles, which means they are behind your team in terms of items, making it easier for them to win fights. That, itself, is already powerful enough.
: It's not the same thing. The problem with Karma was poor direction. The problem with Shyvana was that they've been using A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT VERSION OF HER LORE FOR OVER 2 YEARS.
> [{quoted}](name=HalfTangible,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2LFFn9At,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-03-13T00:21:34.728+0000) > > It's not the same thing. > > The problem with Karma was poor direction. > > The problem with Shyvana was that they've been using A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT VERSION OF HER LORE FOR OVER 2 YEARS. Is her relaunch not a completely different thing? If you compared her old kit with her new one, it's basically different. Same as her 2nd lore that the community had to beg for the writers to change back. If it's not, we can also say that Shyvana's latest one is about the same, minus a few key details.
: Again, it's possible we should nerf Riven. It's also possible we incorrectly nerfed Singed and should still not nerf Riven.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bEraBg5K,comment-id=000e00030000,timestamp=2019-03-12T20:04:12.672+0000) > > Again, it's possible we should nerf Riven. > > It's also possible we incorrectly nerfed Singed and should still not nerf Riven. Why not nerfbat her in both knees first and then ask questions later? Multiple champions have been nerfed hard for lesser problems. You've jumped the gun many times, despite multiple outlets telling you otherwise. Why does Riven warrant an extended grace period to carefully assess?
: You're right. Riot nerfed champs for less.
> [{quoted}](name=Jeddy017,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UumU8Bp4,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-03-12T16:31:10.439+0000) > > You're right. Riot ~~nerfed ~~ crippled champs for less. Ftfy.
: "I'd rather just push through it and see what exactly Riot's narrative team has in store. " I wouldn't. I absolutely refuse to give even a single solitary flying fuck about what they do with anyone's lore from here on out, especially Shyvana's. "Woops, we were working with a different lore state than the one the players had for years!" If they can make a mistake *this* extreme and just *ignore it*, I see no reason to. This is a level of incompetence that initially made me laugh like a maniac, until I realized: if this could happen to Shyvana, why couldn't it happen to any other character on the roster? How am I supposed to trust that any character's bio is the way it's supposed to be if Shyvana's bio could be so different from what Riot's working with for literal YEARS? How am I supposed to care about a character's lore if it's just going to change to such an extreme and delete entire characters on a whim? At least with Varus you could argue that his family only existed to die in the first place and Varus pre-ascension COULD still have his old backstory. But the "new" bio and the previous are impossible to reconcile.
> [{quoted}](name=HalfTangible,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2LFFn9At,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-03-10T17:34:24.605+0000) > If they can make a mistake *this* extreme and just *ignore it*, I see no reason to. This is a level of incompetence that initially made me laugh like a maniac, until I realized: if this could happen to Shyvana, why couldn't it happen to any other character on the roster? How am I supposed to trust that any character's bio is the way it's supposed to be if Shyvana's bio could be so different from what Riot's working with for literal YEARS? > Shyvana wasn't the first to get shit on. {{champion:43}} 's relaunch was the beginning of the end. However, the players back then were too stupid to realize it because she was pretty non-existent and they didn't dream of **their** champions getting pwned as well. The only people vocal were Karma players and the playerbase was way too small for them to influence Riot's change. It's bittersweet. {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
: 2019 and people still don't know that Seeker's exists lol
> [{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xijhsXys,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-03-06T18:59:40.047+0000) > > 2019 and people still don't know that Seeker's exists lol Hexdrinker also exists.
darkdill (NA)
: Why do the Ionians have such a disdain for Lux in their interactions?
Well, Ionia is currently going through a war internally and externally. Externally: Noxus Internally: Magic corruption within the lands When you have someone bubbly, happy, and optimistic around, while you saw your friends and family die in front of you and you are still fighting for hope and peace, it shows a sense of ignorance and being out of touch with reality. While Lux have her own struggles (keeping her magic from Demacia, releasing Sylas into the world), her outward portrayal is perceived as vapid and carefree, without any knowledge of the world, which rubs a lot of Ionians the wrong way. I quite like it. It shows a dichotomy with many subtle layers and implications.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 15
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=1ZAPMpxT,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-15T17:10:17.300+0000) > > We don't have other changes currently underway for Karma. Something we'd like to try whenever we do next work on her though is an adjustment to her passive. That would involve giving it charges that get consumed whenever she deals damage that reduce her Mantra CD by a much larger amount than at present. Goal would be to allow spikier, clearer successes, rather than the more sustained Mantra tick down as at present. Curious how that sounds to those of you who play Karma? May I ask why is it so important to maintain that 'buyback' portion as her Passive, rather than move it to her Ult instead? Or keeping it only at 1 charge? Many Karma players expressed frustration that she gets a relatively meh passive, while someone like Yasuo gets 2 passives + an additional one with his ult. Can we look into giving her a more cohesive passive that rewards her significantly for aggression like Lissandra's new passive? Move her buyback trait to her R and give her something that can help her team better. At this current time, it's like "Yay...I hit the enemy champion. That's ~2 seconds Iess I need to wait in order to press R...". It's rather bland like Liss' old passive of "Yay...I saved 100 mana because my passive was up when I used an ability". Even with reducing the charges by a significant amount of CD, unless it was on Katarina's scale of reduction that would basically reset the charge, I don't think it would be received that well, as her main damage is from her Q and her W is rather unreliable for damage. Suggestions from players indicate that she may do better with incorporating her old battle-mage playstyle with supportive qualities or a yin/yang type with opposite effects to not only bridge the gap between communities, but also allow her to actually make a difference in fights, rather than be a shield bot. Perhaps a passive that utilizes some of those ideas instead? Mantra is her defining trait, however, Heimerdinger seem to represent that more than her. How would the team still maintain that Mantra style, while deviating his style from her, along with making it original?
Alsius (NA)
: The old, pre-rework Karma was infamously one of the weakest champions in the history of the game. I'm not sure if you want a revert back to that period. It wouldn't be a bad idea to bring back aspects of that kit (maybe make her RE a shield that detonated after a few seconds, increase her damage dealt, let her Ultimate have charges), but there is a legit reason they removed the original Karma from the game, rose-colored glasses nonwithstanding.
> [{quoted}](name=Alsius,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=1ZAPMpxT,comment-id=001d0002,timestamp=2019-02-15T18:49:33.396+0000) > > The old, pre-rework Karma was infamously one of the weakest champions in the history of the game. I'm not sure if you want a revert back to that period. > It wouldn't be a bad idea to bring back aspects of that kit (maybe make her RE a shield that detonated after a few seconds, increase her damage dealt, let her Ultimate have charges), but there is a legit reason they removed the original Karma from the game, rose-colored glasses nonwithstanding. That is actually false. Old pre-rework Karma was not one of the weakest champions in the history of the game. Her winrate was actually around 48%. And she didn't get any real substantial buffs after like the 1st month she was released. Nor was she in rotation for any free weeks after her mandatory one after she was released. That award went to reworked Karma when she was first introduced and sat at ~43% winrate until the team buffed her multiple times in the span of several patches. Also, if you want to talk about one of the weakest champions in the game, Eve was intentionally kept in a sad low winrate state for many years until they reworked her. Legit you were reported for trolling simply by choosing her. There wasn't any legitimate reason to remove old Karma outright because the team never did anything to address any of her "weak" areas to begin with, unlike many other champions who went through cycles of buffs and nerfs. They simply hated her and ignored her for the entire 2 years until they saw an opportunity to change her. Back when they were experimenting with the idea of a champion rework much larger than their usual Kayle/Ryze scale, they saw this as a way to use her as a guinea pig because they hated her and didn't care too much if it went bad anyways. When they did decide to change her, they fired her original designer tasked to work on her (Guinsoo) and gave her to some newbie designer (Scarizard) who didn't know what the hell he was doing, rushed her rework with bits and pieces thrown in from their testing and here we are many years later. Old Karma may have been weak (due to how much the game has changed towards being League of Mobility), however, let's not rewrite history and pretend like she was actually given any chance to have been good in the past 5+ years. She was always a throwaway champion and even up until now, the designers are still adamant about keeping her that way. Players didn't remember old Karma through rose-colored glasses and nostalgia. They remembered her because of how poorly the game treated her through being freezed out entirely for the 2 years she was present, her shoddy rework, and the disrespect directed by the developers toward her playerbase. Want to see what those old Karma players felt? Read the comments from the archived 1k+ paged thread that spawned after her original rework dropped: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3286685&page=1 The team got so much flack through that thread that they had to *move* that original thread from the GD to some random sub-forum to stop players from bringing up that thread to the 1st page to be reminded of how royally they dun goofed. ----- As a fun sidenote, old Karma was picked up by Singapore Sentinel's Chawy during LoL e-sports tournaments and gave their opponents a run for their money.
rujitra (NA)
: Riot is constantly doing surveys, and to my knowledge most of them are *proactive* - i.e. they are surveys to *identify* problems. If Riot is making these changes, it’s because they did a survey and found that karma mains as well as regular players thought that these were problems with Karma’s kit.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=TkiBEVYV,comment-id=0032000100020000000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-28T19:23:34.281+0000) > > Riot is constantly doing surveys, and to my knowledge most of them are *proactive* - i.e. they are surveys to *identify* problems. If Riot is making these changes, it’s because they did a survey and found that karma mains as well as regular players thought that these were problems with Karma’s kit. If they actually sent out surveys (which they most likely didn't, as they asked us here on the boards, the Mains board, and Reddit for feedback), it is a very biased way to acquire information. A) Current Karma mains outnumber everyone else who aren't. B) LoL players constantly cycles out, so those who aren't mains just know this current iteration of Karma. C) Old and pre-5.10 Karma players are a minority due to the time lapse. Just basic statistics show that we are outnumbered. Therefore, our opinions would always be the "minority". You argue that Riot takes into consideration all Karma player's feelings? Just read the two sentences I quote from Neurocat. Their changes are directly targeting **current Karma players**. Straight from the horse's mouth. Anyone else is kicked to the curb. Yet again. Do you know why there is a lot of bitterness when it comes to Karma? A brief history will tell you easily. 1) Karma was a guinea pig for future reworks. She was given to a designer with 0 experience, that was also rushed out, due to drama within Riot (Guinsoo, who was working on her, mysteriously had some internal issues in the company, and subsequently, they panicked and gave her to some random staff member). No one considered old Karma players' feelings. 2) People who were accustomed to the new playstyle of Karma, met a rude awakening in patch 5.10, when the shield bomb was removed. There was no issues with it. Yet, Riot took it upon themselves to take it out. This demoted her further into the support role. No one considered those current Karma players' feelings. 3) No communication about changes for 5+ long years and when there is, vague statements. But with this one, it's like "Oh no, we should totally consider Karma players' feelings when we change her. Current Karma players' feelings, that is". There is a lot of shadiness involving Karma and this latest change is another slap to the face to the minorities of those 2 groups that were screwed over without any form of communication or changes dedicated to them to rectify the past histories of changes. Keep in mind. Karma was an experiment that Riot used to dictate future changes. Don't be surprised if your favorite champion gets pulled a fast one. Even these majority current Karma players are not safe.
: {{champion:238}} played mid every single game. But he's not OP. Everyone just rolls face on him because they are all so skilled. Every single one of them.
> [{quoted}](name=GoPhuckUrSelves,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y12Y2zNn,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-10-25T11:28:37.033+0000) > > {{champion:238}} played mid every single game. But he's not OP. Everyone just rolls face on him because they are all so skilled. Every single one of them. Cue in the usual statements. You need to l2p, as he's easily counterable. When he burns his W, he's free. Rush Zhonya's. Call in the jungler. CC him. Yada yada.
: how to not feed with immobile mages midlane?
Buying an early 300g armor item is pretty good investment. Mostly, don't get poked out by the assassin, play a bit on the safer side, and always remember to ward. For Vel, his E is pretty good to follow up with a W and Q to the face to show them who is boss.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ifneth,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=zXF0U4aF,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-10-24T15:50:24.807+0000) > > While pre-update Ezreal might have been endearing, I imagine this new one would just turn Lux off with his arrogance and emptiness, especially once she’d read about what he’d done with that artifact. Yikes. > > Also, an arrogant and insecure guy who won’t take no for an answer sounds like the start of a rather cringey or even creepy story, rather than the romantic comedy you have in mind. What’s he gonna do once she politely but firmly turns him down? Ez respects physical boundaries. He'd take the rejection like a champ, honestly. That doesn't mean he wouldn't try to change her mind by changing her perception of him -- which would probably be good for Ez. It would ultimately mature him into acceptance.
> [{quoted}](name=FauxSchizzle,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=zXF0U4aF,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-24T18:18:52.062+0000) > > Ez respects physical boundaries. He'd take the rejection like a champ, honestly. That doesn't mean he wouldn't try to change her mind by changing her perception of him -- which would probably be good for Ez. It would ultimately mature him into acceptance. Would he mature enough to realize that he really belongs in {{champion:44}} 's manly arms? {{sticker:sg-jinx}}
: To your points: * Ideally, it would work with all resources. Honestly, that's a bit tricky to implement to cover all future resources. It doesn't give energy right now because energy refund is honestly quite powerful - a lot of champion's burst windows are balanced around a certain energy pool, and Karma being able to freely donate that might create some incredibly powerful picks that overshadow most others. * The objection to bonus root in favor of something else (like damage) is fair, and I think a matter of taste on the skill. I know folks who don't really know its there, some folks who really like how strong it is, and some folks who don't care for it. * The issue is that pre 5.10 Karma's R-E was a pretty large part of her power budget already, in not a great way to meet our goals around diverse Mantra choices. We'd likely need to significantly nerf it past where it was. I really enjoy her shield bomb as well as a spell, but at the end of the day, I can't sacrifice the thing that a lot of current Karma players really enjoy for my own preferences.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot NeuroCat,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=TkiBEVYV,comment-id=0032000100020000,timestamp=2018-10-24T21:57:53.344+0000) > I really enjoy her shield bomb as well as a spell, but at the end of the day, I can't sacrifice the thing that a lot of current Karma players really enjoy for my own preferences. > We made in the call to go with the version closer to live, since more live Karma players are attached to that, than the power of the old shield bomb. Quick question: When has considering majority of the champion's playbase's feelings started? Last week? Or when it just suits Riot's personal goals and happens to be a convenient excuse to try and do damage control? Because Riot certainly haven't considering Karma players' feelings throughout this entire time. A: When she was given to a no-name first time designer to be used as a guinea pig. Those current majority of Karma players' (old Karma players) feelings weren't considered. B: When pre 5.10 Karma's Mantra E shield bomb was removed. Those current majority of Karma player's feelings (patch 5.10 Karma players) weren't considered. So please tell me why this latest iteration of "current" Karma players' feelings are oh-so super duper special and have to have their feelings spared?
Shigure (OCE)
: Yeh her passive is real hard to proc... requiring only 2 hits from 3 abilities which hit multiple times (2x on Q, 3X on W, 3x on R) 2 of them prioritising champions, and the one which isn't a multi-hit almost guaranteeing another ability will hit to proc it anyway. It's almost impossible for Ahri not to proc it in a trade or when ganked as she simply needs to press W and/or Q to proc it. Charms hit-box is standard hit-box and as i said as a champion with a triple dash she should be vulnerable when her mobility spell is down and she misses her CC. Ok onto the champs you listed. You specified more then 1 mobility skill without ult then listed Ult as the 2nd mobility spell for half of them so can ignore Graves,Kai'sa, Kha'Zix, Yi, Zed for the sake of this argument (and Kayn doesn't count to begin with since he uses both in his engage and both are horrid forms of escape). The rest i can agree with, Talon and Akali are too safe and Pyke is getting nerfed next patch specifically because of how easily he escapes once in with the tank build however he also uses all of the above for engage so eh goes either way. You also have to factor in that majority of these are melee and have to go into melee range to do anything so are much more risky then a champ that stays at 550+ range whenever possible. For the 1 mobility + shield or non skill-shot defense you can add Ahri to that since she gets a heal from her Q as that's a form of sustain same as a shield. Honestly it seems like your argument is Ahri is fair because she is vulnerable when her mobility spell is down whilst all these champs are not whilst almost all of them are in a much riskier situation assuming their mobility spell is down and have a much weaker form of mobility/escape then Ahri and her triple dashes in the first place.
> [{quoted}](name=Shigure,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tc9eaAwc,comment-id=0018000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-15T02:01:47.063+0000) > > Yeh her passive is real hard to proc... requiring only 2 hits from 3 abilities which hit multiple times (2x on Q, 3X on W, 3x on R) 2 of them prioritising champions, and the one which isn't a multi-hit almost guaranteeing another ability will hit to proc it anyway. It's almost impossible for Ahri not to proc it in a trade or when ganked as she simply needs to press W and/or Q to proc it. Charms hit-box is standard hit-box and as i said as a champion with a triple dash she should be vulnerable when her mobility spell is down and she misses her CC. > > Ok onto the champs you listed. > > You specified more then 1 mobility skill without ult then listed Ult as the 2nd mobility spell for half of them so can ignore Graves,Kai'sa, Kha'Zix, Yi, Zed for the sake of this argument (and Kayn doesn't count to begin with since he uses both in his engage and both are horrid forms of escape). The rest i can agree with, Talon and Akali are too safe and Pyke is getting nerfed next patch specifically because of how easily he escapes once in with the tank build however he also uses all of the above for engage so eh goes either way. You also have to factor in that majority of these are melee and have to go into melee range to do anything so are much more risky then a champ that stays at 550+ range whenever possible. > > For the 1 mobility + shield or non skill-shot defense you can add Ahri to that since she gets a heal from her Q as that's a form of sustain same as a shield. > > Honestly it seems like your argument is Ahri is fair because she is vulnerable when her mobility spell is down whilst all these champs are not whilst almost all of them are in a much riskier situation assuming their mobility spell is down and have a much weaker form of mobility/escape then Ahri and her triple dashes in the first place. Q has a delay. W's priority can be janky. Her heal needs 9 hits to activate, making it severely unreliable. Triple dash has higher CDR than any other non-ult mobility that the other champions have listed above. You argued about her triple dash mobility, so everyone I've listed some form of mobility in their R as well. You can't pick and choose it. Especially when Ahri's self-defense are highly conditional. The person who I was responding asked why she ain't on there and there's a reason. She's a safe pick, but that's pretty much it. As for the rest of the champions, we both know their mobility skills are top of the line as well. Let's cut the bull and not pretend that they don't have any back up mobility if they happen to burn their ult. If you want to argue about when their mobility spell is down, you conveniently forgot that they have an additional back up spell for additional mobility. For reference, see the list above. More than half the champions has some additional mobility that is not severely conditional. Not exactly hard to understand.
Shigure (OCE)
: and you could say the same for a large portion of the champions listed above if their main mobility spell is down. The only one's up there i can agree with is Zed, Talon, Akali and Kha who is situational (Kha needs to reset for an escape). Ahri should have moments of vulnerability where she can be ganked or caught since she has 3 dashes on a fairly short CD (which goes down as far as 44sec late game). And it's not like she can't do anything when her ults down 20% ms on a 9sec cd with a 1.4 sec charm is plenty to protect yourself when your ult's down. A large portion of mid laners only have 1 CC ability and no Mobility spell to protect themselves with (Lux, Veigar, Syndra, Vel'Koz to name a few).
> [{quoted}](name=Shigure,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tc9eaAwc,comment-id=00180000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-15T01:07:20.316+0000) > > and you could say the same for a large portion of the champions listed above if their main mobility spell is down. The only one's up there i can agree with is Zed, Talon and Kha who is situational (Kha needs to reset for an escape). Ahri should have moments of vulnerability where she can be ganked or caught since she has 3 dashes on a fairly short CD (which goes down as far as 44sec late game). And it's not like she can't do anything when her ults down 20% ms on a 9sec cd with a 1.4 sec charm is plenty to protect yourself when your ult's down. A large portion of mid laners only have 1 CC ability and no Mobility spell to protect themselves with (Lux, Veigar, Syndra, Vel'Koz to name a few). Yeah...no. Ahri's mobility is tied to her R, which has your standard cooldown. Her passive relies on actually hitting her enemies x2, adding on skill cap, and making it very unlikely to be used all the time either. She burns her R and she's screwed. Charm's skillshot hitbox is small as well. Whiff it and you're doubly screwed. Meanwhile, other non AP champions who has mobility + defense don't need to aim. And to be fair, with a lot of mobility in this game, if she is caught without her ult, she's dead meat anyways, even with her E. Meanwhile, the ones listed above. More than 1 mobility skill outside of ult: Akali: W, E, and R. Graves: E, and R Kaisa: E and R Kayn: Q and E Kha'Zix: E and R Yi: Q and R Pike: W, E, and R Talon: Q, E, R Zed: W and R The others have 1 mobility + a form of shield or other type of non-skillshot defense: Camille: E and Passive Irelia: Q and W/E Yasuo: Passive, W, E, R Jax: Q and E/R Only 3 on there either has 1 type of mobility or none: Xayah: R Sion: R Jhin: Reload passive
Shigure (OCE)
: High Mana costs? Her Q costs 65-85 mana based on rank whilst her W and E cost 40 and 70 respectively. Unless your using Q off cd you shouldn't be running out of mana anytime soon considering her mana costs are much lower then champions like Lux, Orianna or Galio who actually have mana problems until lost chapter. And she's up there for the safest laning phase champion in the game once she hits 6. Triple Dash, MS passive which only requires 2 ability hits (aka just her Q) and a 1.4sec charm at rank 1. Her ulti is the definition of an "oh shit i dun goofed" button since majority of the time she is going to have 1 or 2 charges still up after going in and putting herself in a bad situation.
> [{quoted}](name=Shigure,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tc9eaAwc,comment-id=001800000000,timestamp=2018-10-14T23:03:21.956+0000) > > High Mana costs? Her Q costs 65-85 mana based on rank whilst her W and E cost 40 and 70 respectively. Unless your using Q off cd you shouldn't be running out of mana anytime soon considering her mana costs are much lower then champions like Lux, Orianna or Galio who actually have mana problems until lost chapter. And she's up there for the safest laning phase champion in the game once she hits 6. Triple Dash, MS passive which only requires 2 ability hits (aka just her Q) and a 1.4sec charm at rank 1. Her ulti is the definition of an "oh shit i dun goofed" button since majority of the time she is going to have 1 or 2 charges still up after going in and putting herself in a bad situation. It's rather high for the low mana pool she got, considering it's a rather basic skillshot damage ability only. Lux and Orianna got quite a lot of utility in their abilities. Not that it means anything. They could all use a mana buff. Also, it's like you didn't even read anything I wrote. If her R is down, she is out of luck in actually doing much. Look at the above listed champions. Majority of them has an additional form of mobility or safeguard even if they used up their ult.
: Personal Question , why didn't you put {{champion:103}} in your list? tho it annoys me as someone who mains to see a lot of hate on her But I'm wondering why didn't you put here there
> [{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tc9eaAwc,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2018-10-14T01:57:06.247+0000) > > Personal Question , why didn't you put {{champion:103}} in your list? tho it annoys me as someone who mains to see a lot of hate on her > But I'm wondering why didn't you put here there Probably because Ahri still has very clear cut weakness in her kit and is only truly annoying when the meta shifts to safe mid picks. Her mana costs are pretty high during the laning phase and if you whiff her E, you are pretty much useless if your R is down. Whereas majority of the champions listed above have some sort of additional "oh shit I dun goffed" button even in worst case scenarios.
: The Biggest Flaw With LoL Is That It Expects 5 Strangers To Work Together.
> [{quoted}](name=Rainbow Slayer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3Ec5wlIb,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-10-14T15:50:34.306+0000) > > Sometimes teamwork is a good thing, however forced teamwork is never a good thing. I think a lot of frustration comes from the Ranked criteria. "Forced" teamwork is fine, as long as the grading is relatively balanced. At this moment, those who play Ranked are grouped into an 'All or Nothing' category. Either you win and everyone gets a relatively close amount LP or y'all lose and your LP tanks. What happens if they fine tuned the grading? Whether you win or lose, the game takes into account your KDA, along with CS, warding, damage dealt/taken, objective control, and so on to then implement a greater range of varying amount of LP gain or loss? It would separate those with skill or teamwork mentality from those who aren't or has greater selfish tendencies.
: Was honestly wondering if anyone was going to mention that Warwick is a CertainlyT Champion. Not many people bring him up in these CT discussions.
> [{quoted}](name=Rägnarok,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YeoNHk4I,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-10-14T14:21:47.614+0000) > > Was honestly wondering if anyone was going to mention that Warwick is a CertainlyT Champion. > > Not many people bring him up in these CT discussions. WW is arguably a very successful rework. Because WW is most certainly not a CertainlyT's champion. His kit was pre-existing and CT (along with many other team members) worked on his kit. Basically, CT needs his hand held to actually make something relatively balanced in League.
: K/DA eve is missing the usual head accents in shadow form
Her splash art nails (gold) and in-game nails (black) don't match either :O
: I feel bad for fans of old Karma, but it's been so long that significantly more people like the current Karma than still remember and liked the old Karma, and it's bad business to piss off 20000 people in order to make 2000 happy. I hope someday they add a champ that fills the niche she filled for people, but I don't think it's reasonable to ask them to say screw you to all the fans of the current design...
> [{quoted}](name=Eleshakai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VVQiBH5b,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-10-10T19:35:16.945+0000) > > I feel bad for fans of old Karma, but it's been so long that significantly more people like the current Karma than still remember and liked the old Karma, and it's bad business to piss off 20000 people in order to make 2000 happy. > > I hope someday they add a champ that fills the niche she filled for people, but I don't think it's reasonable to ask them to say screw you to all the fans of the current design... Perhaps they can change her and force the new players to like the update version. Not like they didn't do that to old fans with any regret. Why act as though they aren't willing to screw over new fans? Unless the champions are Lee Sin, Yasuo, Zed, Ahri, Katarina, Yi, Riven, Lux, or Vayne, any champions is subject to being throttled by Riot's rework team.
Sukishoo (NA)
: K/DA Ahri, Akali, Evelynn, and Kai'Sa
I'm hoping they fix Evelynn's nails. Her splash nails is gold and the video is black nails.. {{sticker:sg-soraka}}
: > [{quoted}](name=ZapMyHeart,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=XENuO0U1,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-08T22:06:03.635+0000) > > Your idea of a godly being is rather restrictive. Not all gods that are worshipped have amazing OP OP powers that saves anyone and everyone. If you look into mythology, gods themselves (major and minor) are not all-powerful nor are they invincible either. > > The best way to explain Janna is to compare her to the Virgin Mary. She is worshipped by millions to this day, yet, she was simply a human. To Zaunites, Janna is their Virgin Mary. > > Plus, you have to look at the context. Piltover and Zaun are technology-based cities, as in, no innate magical powers. They gain their strength and "powers" through augmentation or weapons. All the champions from either city have some form of weapon or technology upgrade other than Janna. Which makes her very unique. > > Place Janna in Demacia and she'd be vilified as a demon. In the Shadow Isles? She's be prey. Bilgewater? Basic blonde. Ionia? Wind Spirit. Therefore, looking at the geographical nature plays into it as well. I’m not saying she has to be all powerful just far beyond the tech and magic capabilities of Piltover and Zaun. Or just really active and charismatic with a clear mission and goal in mind. As for the Virgin Mary she is not worshipped as a Goddess or anything close just highly revered due to her connection to Jesus as his mother. Janna doesn’t have connections to an actual God. If Jesus wasnt God himself and was just some really nice mysterious guy without any major powers (while Janna can create wind to some extent relative to the setting she is just another mage), or even a single message (Janna makes no claims about herself and has no real message to her followers) do you think anyone would worship him? As for understanding magic. Piltover and Zaun are both familiar with magic, magic is common place enough that Piltover has academies for training mages as revealed in Ezreal’s new lore who is a mage.
> [{quoted}](name=ForgottenStone,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=XENuO0U1,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-08T22:54:56.754+0000) > > I’m not saying she has to be all powerful just far beyond the tech and magic capabilities of Piltover and Zaun. Or just really active and charismatic with a clear mission and goal in mind. > > As for the Virgin Mary she is not worshipped as a Goddess or anything close just highly revered due to her connection to Jesus as his mother. Janna doesn’t have connections to an actual God. > > If Jesus wasnt God himself and was just some really nice mysterious guy without any major powers (while Janna can create wind to some extent relative to the setting she is just another mage), or even a single message (Janna makes no claims about herself and has no real message to her followers) do you think anyone would worship him? > > As for understanding magic. Piltover and Zaun are both familiar with magic, magic is common place enough that Piltover has academies for training mages as revealed in Ezreal’s new lore who is a mage. You're expecting too much. Hence the reason why I mentioned that you are being too restrictive on your views of what constitute as a god or what it should mean. Many deities are depicted to hang out or just focus their energies on a select few. Virgin Mary is seen by many as a goddess by the way. Why would anyone want to worship a measly human, despite being a deity's mother? See Greek/Roman mythology. Keep in mind, Janna is not human to begin with. Your monotheistic point of view doesn't really match the lore of LoL. If anything, League seems to be pulling from polytheism, where there are multiple types of gods and levels of powers. Plus, Jesus's powers are questionable at that because there aren't any proof to them. Also, Jesus was a human, who died at a stake. So there's that. Piltover and Zaun may be familiar with magic, but as I said, they are still heavily focused on technology to augment anything. Out of all the champions that are considered powerful from the two cities, Ezreal and Janna are the two beings with actual decent magic. One is human and the other isn't. And arguably, Ezreal needed a gauntlet that he found to actually bring it out, which indicates that the academies in Piltover aren't that great at nurturing any potential mages. Those with any sort of magical talent in Zaun ain't gonna be getting an education in Piltover because of how the cities themselves are financially structured. Janna is a rare being on Zaun. A spirit with magic whose powers are tied to that of human prayers. The less worship, the weaker her powers are. And vice versa. Read her biography. She saved the city of Zaun once. As Zaun and Piltover's technology advanced and people's beliefs waned in exchange for technological advances, Janna was put to the side. Which is why she ain't that powerful. Same as our world. We have technological advancement in favor of religious beliefs.
: > [{quoted}](name=ZapMyHeart,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=XENuO0U1,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-08T19:23:15.021+0000) > > My thoughts are because it's based on socio-economic trends. > > Piltover and Zaun are interconnected together, however, Piltover is the rich area, while Zaun is Skid Row. > > Aka Eagleton and Pawnee (Parks and Rec) or from Battle Angel Alita, Tiphares vs The Scrapyard. > > Unlike Piltover, where everyone is relatively comfortable and attracts the richer crowd. Zaun is like the black market, dealing with basically anything that might not be legal, attracting shady people and all kinds of questionable business or those who can't afford anywhere else/can't get out due to being born there due to poverty. > > Those who live in destitution have a tendency to seek out some spiritual aspect, perhaps as a way to cling onto hope because despite the technological advances in Zaun, it doesn't free the citizens from their poverty nor their environments. The reason is because only a small portion of Zaun's population actually strike it rich through these dealings, while everyone else trudges along and try to scrape by to see another day. > > Janna, who might not be the most powerful being, is worshipped as a protective figure, as who doesn't want a motherly figure with magical powers protecting them? Those people cling onto this because they have nothing else and it allows them to be comforted in face of their realities. And hope is considered to be the most strongest feeling out there, allowing beings to get through dark times. > > If you read her flavor story, the last few paragraphs give you a bit of insight on what a Zaunite would feel when around Janna. I get what you are saying but the problem with all of that is how her powers don’t really stand out to be awe inspiring relative to all the other crazy stuff going on in Zaun or Piltover, a magical artifact releasing fire “demons” is a Tuesday over there. So I’d imagine it would take a lot for someone to look like a goddess to them. So Janna isn’t super powerful and at the same time not very active as well as her lore story doesn’t make her out to be a superhero or motherly protector helping her “children”. Instead she occasionally shows up clears the smog for a few minutes and give people hugs and words of encouragement. A good thing to do but at the same time it’s not like her actions are miracles beyond the realm of mortals. So I’d expect her to have celebrity status especially amongst the downtrodden but not being straight up worshipped. As most people aren’t going to worship you as a god for giving them a pep talk or blowing some smoke out of their face. Now if she were going around shielding people from bullets and knife attacks, curing cancer, healing the blind and crippled, changing the weather, bringing the dead back, etc. I could see people worshipping her like a god as those actions are extraordinary miracles beyond the capabilities of anybody they’d know.
> [{quoted}](name=ForgottenStone,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=XENuO0U1,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-10-08T20:15:40.816+0000) > > I get what you are saying but the problem with all of that is how her powers don’t really stand out to be awe inspiring relative to all the other crazy stuff going on in Zaun or Piltover, a magical artifact releasing fire “demons” is a Tuesday over there. So I’d imagine it would take a lot for someone to look like a goddess to them. > > So Janna isn’t super powerful and at the same time not very active as well as her lore story doesn’t make her out to be a superhero or motherly protector helping her “children”. > > Instead she occasionally shows up clears the smog for a few minutes and give people hugs and words of encouragement. > > A good thing to do but at the same time it’s not like her actions are miracles beyond the realm of mortals. > > So I’d expect her to have celebrity status especially amongst the downtrodden but not being straight up worshipped. As most people aren’t going to worship you as a god for giving them a pep talk or blowing some smoke out of their face. > > Now if she were going around shielding people from bullets and knife attacks, curing cancer, healing the blind and crippled, changing the weather, bringing the dead back, etc. I could see people worshipping her like a god as those actions are extraordinary miracles beyond the capabilities of anybody they’d know. Your idea of a godly being is rather restrictive. Not all gods that are worshipped have amazing OP OP powers that saves anyone and everyone. If you look into mythology, gods themselves (major and minor) are not all-powerful nor are they invincible either. The best way to explain Janna is to compare her to the Virgin Mary. She is worshipped by millions to this day, yet, she was simply a human. To Zaunites, Janna is their Virgin Mary. Plus, you have to look at the context. Piltover and Zaun are technology-based cities, as in, no innate magical powers. They gain their strength and "powers" through augmentation or weapons. All the champions from either city have some form of weapon or technology upgrade other than Janna. Which makes her very unique. Place Janna in Demacia and she'd be vilified as a demon. In the Shadow Isles? She's be prey. Bilgewater? Basic blonde. Ionia? Wind Spirit. Therefore, looking at the geographical nature plays into it as well.
Ratpie (NA)
: Should Sona be allowed in ARAM?
> [{quoted}](name=Ratpie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eqYqAssk,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-10-08T04:39:07.773+0000) > > Should champs with around 70% win rates and this strong be allowed in ARAM? or should they be deactivated? Yes, they should be allowed. Or else ban every other annoying champion on there: {{champion:32}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:68}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:142}} {{champion:143}}
zoliking (NA)
: Dude dodging an ARAM is worse than dodging a regular game. Chances are that among the 9 people in the game there were at least a few who were excited to play what they got and now they might have to play a shitload of games to get the same champ again. 15 minutes is a sad excuse of a penalty for an ARAM dodge.
> [{quoted}](name=zoliking,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HcebrEJf,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-10-08T08:31:03.583+0000) > > Dude dodging an ARAM is worse than dodging a regular game. Chances are that among the 9 people in the game there were at least a few who were excited to play what they got and now they might have to play a shitload of games to get the same champ again. 15 minutes is a sad excuse of a penalty for an ARAM dodge. I feel like there should be a 30 minute penalty + the dodger retains the champ they had prior to them dodging until they play the game out.
: Why do people even worship Janna?
My thoughts are because it's based on socio-economic trends. Piltover and Zaun are interconnected together, however, Piltover is the rich area, while Zaun is Skid Row. Aka Eagleton and Pawnee (Parks and Rec) or from Battle Angel Alita, Tiphares vs The Scrapyard. Unlike Piltover, where everyone is relatively comfortable and attracts the richer crowd. Zaun is like the black market, dealing with basically anything that might not be legal, attracting shady people and all kinds of questionable business or those who can't afford anywhere else/can't get out due to being born there due to poverty. Those who live in destitution have a tendency to seek out some spiritual aspect, perhaps as a way to cling onto hope because despite the technological advances in Zaun, it doesn't free the citizens from their poverty nor their environments. The reason is because only a small portion of Zaun's population actually strike it rich through these dealings, while everyone else trudges along and try to scrape by to see another day. Janna, who might not be the most powerful being, is worshipped as a protective figure, as who doesn't want a motherly figure with magical powers protecting them? Those people cling onto this because they have nothing else and it allows them to be comforted in face of their realities. And hope is considered to be the most strongest feeling out there, allowing beings to get through dark times. If you read her flavor story, the last few paragraphs give you a bit of insight on what a Zaunite would feel when around Janna.
Lapis (OCE)
: What's wrong with Karma?
It's because she's a generalist that is heavily reliant on her team. Mage role: Early game bully, but doesn't offer anything better for late game compared to your standard burst or control mages. Support role: Early game bully, but turns into a shield bot late game. Tank role: Weaker than your standard tank. Mainly an unkillable nuisance, if you have enough mana. Heimerdinger is a better Mantra-type champion than Karma is.
Hoku (NA)
: Tryhard/Full Mage Supports
There's a term for that back in S2: Kill lane.
: Can't we have a circus themed skinline with The Magnificent TF as its head?
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ZapMyHeart

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