J Eevo (EUNE)
: ^ This. If you want him to be more of a bruiser instead of a bursty mage, you need to revert the nerfs to his E, the main defensive ability. I'm pretty sure the E cooldown nerf was done with a different mindset in mind than the recent changes, where they were still trying to make him work out as he was, while the recent shift is towards a more bruisery playstyle because the changes really conflict with their aim. You can't have him be a bruiser with more passive usage if you don't adjust his cooldowns to 1) make his passive activate more often and 2) make him actually live long enough to use it with his E and W keeping him alive for longer.
The logical thinking behind these changes on pbe is that they were probably going to introduce AP Bruiser items. That is the logical thinking when you see Riot taking this direction towards Sylas. But logic doesn't work with Riot. I was okay with his Q nerf because they had to nerf him after giving a buff to his pasive, but all they did to his E was a mistake; a huge mistake. I wasn't surprised when he lost straight 5% in his WinRate after receiving these changes. 1- He had neither the items to support the new playstyle, nor the stats to be tanky enough to maximize the damage output. 2- His main defensive tool, his E, got nerfed really hard and he was extremely dependant on it to be able to do his combo without dying. Not only was his E CD nerfed, but now it only applies on the second cast and if it hits an enemy. His WinRate is nothing to be surprised of. This just shows how careless Riot is about champions that are not their main sells on skins.
: I am still cretin he is still good if you build him as an ap bruiser. {{item:3027}} {{item:3001}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3065}} Sure those items are nothing compared to ad bruisers but they still work fairly decent. I suggest building him a bit tanky. He might surprises you. Also, don't play him mid. Play him top.
http://www.op.gg/champion/sylas/statistics/top WinRate Top: 40.68%
Rioter Comments
Zeyphel (NA)
: Who would have though that OTPs of specific champions would have an higher winrate than average players? Amazing discovery. *sigh* Lets get to the point: In Masters+, Sylas WinRate is higher because people have a better understanding of teamfights and therefore more synergy which greatly benefits Sylas. Didn't I firstly mention that Sylas got nerfed because of LCS and not SoloQ? The only issue here is that the ones complaining are not the Masters or challengers, but the low elo players. That is what makes this post irrelevant.
That is an interesting fact. However, that doesn't mean that said champion is broken just that he can be strong in good hands. Well, I don't see a disagreement neither. I wanted rather to clarify why he gets stronger in high elo, but yeah skill always matters too. Good Luck
Saezio (EUNE)
: Sylas OTPs have one of the highest winrates if not the highest across all champ OTPs. Sylas winrates in Masters+ is significantly higher than diamond. These facts show that if sylas is played at or near his skill cap he is one of the best champions in the game. The fact that people bellow masters struggle with him shows that he is simply hard to play to perfection for most people. It was the same with akali, who had trash winrates in all elos but one of the top winrates in masters+ games and pro games. But the fact that people lose to low elo sylas players means they are just bad because there is no way he is played optimally there.
Who would have though that OTPs of specific champions would have an higher winrate than average players? Amazing discovery. *sigh* Lets get to the point: In Masters+, Sylas WinRate is higher because people have a better understanding of teamfights and therefore more synergy which greatly benefits Sylas. Didn't I firstly mention that Sylas got nerfed because of LCS and not SoloQ? The only issue here is that the ones complaining are not the Masters or challengers, but the low elo players. That is what makes this post irrelevant.
Yets4240 (NA)
: TFW you are so butthurt about people calling out an overload, overpowered, and overbearing monstrosity that you start making up bullshit "statistics" and outright lying, while hypocritically claiming that others are providing false or inaccurate data. GTFO of here with that bullshit.
Hey, if I understand right, the ones who are crying and butthurt are you guys. You are the ones crying after being unable to defeat a champion with an overall winrate of 47%. Maybe you could use that energy that you waste daily crying in learning how to actually play the game. Anyways, this is probably pointless. You guys are too difficult to change, once you refuse to improve for so long, it is really difficult that you do, so I hope that all those tears carry you somewhere.
PB4UAME (NA)
: Copying and pasting from another commentor who bothered to actually type this out, and call you assholes out on your utterly indefensible bullshit. "So, we're just straight up lying now, and ignoring casting times, casting lock outs, cast animations, etc? Fucking great, I love the boards, /s Naut self CCs himself for over half a second just to get his root auto attacks off, his ult has a .5 second cast time, then it travels even at point blank range for some time, before actually going off. To just root someone in melee range then ult them takes Naut almost the full 1.5 second window discussed, and he still ahs three other abilities to use, his Q alone takes between 1.5-2.5 seconds to cast depending on range, which is already longer than the window discussed. To use all of his abilities, even with animation cancelling, and cancelling the windup/windback on his auto (and only autoing one time, instead of the 3-5 you'd want in a teamfight) takes Naut legitimately over 5 seconds if he hits his Q. He can't even cast his shield (which has a cast time) during any other abilities, and if he does it during an auto, it resets the auto attack timer and cancels the auto to start a new one. Now, let's look at the damage and ratios, shall we? Level 18 Naut has: 110 physical damage on his passive no ratio 280 magical damage + .9AP on his Q 35 magical damage + .2AP on his W 175 magical damage + .35AP on his E (his man damage tool, btw, on a 7 - 5 second cooldown) 450 magical damage + .8AP on his ult (half damage to secondary targets) All told, he has 110 physical damage and 940 magical damage with 2.25 AP ratio on his full combo Level 18 Sylas has: 47.5 magical damage with 100% TOTAL AD + 20% AP on his passive, that in a full combo, he'll use 4-5 times = 190 - 237.5 + 400%- 500% TOTAL AD + 80 - 100% AP Its also in AoE with no damage loss to multiple targets. 290 magical damage on his Q + 1.20AP 180 magical damage on W + .65AP 130 magical damage + .2 on his E Not even counting an ultimate he's got 760-807.5 base damage with a 2.85-3.05 AP ratio. For shits and giggles let's let him steal Naut's ult (not even a good one for him) That's an extra 450 magical damage .8 on his ult (half damage to secondary targets) Now Sylas is chilling at a monstrous 1210-1257.5 base damage with a colossal 3.65-4.05 AP ratio on the combo. Oh and did I forget to mention Sylas gets a 180 shield + .9 AP as well as a 140 heal + .4 increased to 245 + .7AP if below 40% giving him a total of 425 free effective HP + 1.6AP times his damage mitigation each fight. In comparison, Naut gets a shield for only 100 + 13% of his HP. Syals actually has better damage, base damage, ratios, mobility, faster cast times, less lock outs due to animations, and basically no self CC, and he even has better survivability tools and defensive steroids than one of the only viable tanks currently. Get the fuck out of here with your baseless insinuations and outright lies." -Yets4240 Even without giving him an ultimate, he has AP ratios worth 4.45-4.85 total AP if you count his defensive ratios along with his offensive ones, or ***JUST*** 2.85-3.05 AP or .6 to .8 higher AP than Naut, who, without his ult ratio has only a 1.45 total AP ratio. Just to reiterate that point, pre level 6, Sylas has 4.45-4.85 total AP as his ratios, Naut has 1.45 total AP. A difference of ***AT FUCKING LEAST 300% OF HIS ENTIRE AP*** Oh, and Sylas also has a fucking 400-500% total AD ratio in there too, just because fuck you he needs the highest ratios of literally any champion in the game before he even steals literally any ult in the game, with guaranteed as good or better scaling than for the champion whose ult he stole. So the difference is ***Sylas has 300% more TOTAL AP*** *and* ***On top of that*** he *also* gets mother fucking ***400-500% more TOTAL AD.*** And yet, here you actually fucking are, trying to lie through your goddamn teeth that they are the same, and some dumbass fools who have no idea how this game or either champion works actually up-voted you for your lies and drivel. To say that they are even remotely close in base damage, AP, time it takes to get their damage off, burst damage, etc is laughably and demonstrably false, even before one considers the AoE aspect of Syals' kit, and how much higher the effective AP ratios would be in an actual fight where he'll mutliproc abilities and actually have an ult (or two) to steal during the fight. He also has lower cooldowns, so can get more rotations off faster, further increasing the damage and ratio disparity between the two champions. Their damage potential is not even remotely comparable, as Sylas has nearly double Naut's scalings, and lower CDs with more AoE.
So What? You never bothered to call his weaknesses. I call that Bias. Nonetheless, lets call them. 1- He is really vulnerable to ganks specially early game having his E as his only defensive tool which is a mini-dash on 18 CD. 2- All his skillshots are easily avoidable. He has a tiny hitbox for Q and E2. Anyone who is not a stone can easily avoid his Q and E2. 3- R is extremely conditional. Ever wondered what you could do with Jayce or Udyr's R? Exactly, nothing. 4- Bad Base Stats for a Melee translated in someone who is extremely vulnerable to poke, reason for which most of the times he uses teleport and avoids using ignite. 5- Extremely vulnerable after one rotation. His CDs are usually high (Q as the exception) which means if he doesn't kill you in a rotation, he is most likely dead. He can heal but it means nothing after he uses his combo because he has nothing to finish you and I am even counting the AA reset after each ability. Sylas would only be able to one-shot you with a pure damage R and if he caught you out of position which, btw, is mostly your fault. 6- He has nothing to contribute to a teamfight but his R. If he wasn't lucky to keep a perfect R at that precise moment, he lacks utility in the fight and is more like a weight in late game than a help. 7- He has many counters. Try picking Ahri, Vladimir, Heimerdinger, Vel'koz, hell even lux works against him and if you are slighty decent at the game you have won the lane and the pressure. 8- His scaling is nothing compared with many mages. If he doesn't gets a lead early/mid, he is not going to be a threat in late game at all. 9- His Full Combo TAKES TIME. If you aren't fed and want to kill someone from 100-0 you have to keep a damage R and do a full combo which includes procing pasive after each ability while predicting enemy movement. This takes damn time and it wouldn't be so bad if we weren't in a damage-burst meta. You will probably be one-shotted before being able to do a full combo. 10- Lack of Effective AP bruiser itemnization. And now Sylas has been forced to build full AP and try to play like an assasin which obviously wasn't what he was designed for and many other assasins do a much better job than him. This can be viewed in his 47% Win Rate. Short tip: Who the Fzxc builds AD with Sylas?
: > [{quoted}](name=Zeyphel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hfNufnUH,comment-id=00020001000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-11T19:00:05.115+0000) > > They also nerfed Sylas and changed his numbers. You haven't played against the 51% WinRate Sylas, you just played against the 47% WinRate one, and yet you are complaining and seem to have lost. > > What you want is Riot winning lane for you. Not a all i want to be able to dodge atleast 1 of his abilitys and not get owned. I'd dodge his q and his e yet i still died to him. seems a bit unfair.
I know very well the ranges of output damage for Sylas and I can tell you that there is no way that a non-fed sylas can 100-0 you if you avoid his Q and E2. How do you explain this phenomenon?
Saezio (EUNE)
: What else? Cause the champs is literally stomping shit in Masters+. Sure people not able to play him correctly overall affects his winrate, but he is surely a very strong champion as showcased by his ban/pick/win rates in pro across LEC LPL and LCK. Idk but probably lcs too but I don't watch that.
He is not stomping anything. Your own source contraddicts your claim. He has a 2.4% Pick Rate which means he is mostly played by people who know how to play him and electrocute is better than Conqueror for early and when you need short trades, so it really depends on the matchup. So, yeah, people are able to play him correctly wether you like to acknowledge it or not. Is he stronger in Pro play? Yeah, and exactly the reason why he is being overnerfed for soloQ and is keeping a 47%. You all need to stop being so easily baited in a rage post which is most of the time someone who played worse than his opponent but his/her ego makes it so he is unable to accept it, resulting in pointless complaints like this one.
Saezio (EUNE)
: What do you mean? That every site is wrong that shows sylas players are using predominantly electro? The truth is sylas can pick any of electro/conqueror/comet/aftershock depending on his lane matchup. But people are just defaulting to electro for some reason. Just look at what the pros are picking on sylas vs different opponents. Now, sure you aren't gonna pick conqueror vs lux or azir, cause you ain't procing that shit. But vs champs like akali or yas or zed it's the best option.
I never say that it didn't affect his WinRate, but it is not the biggest reason of his 47% WinRate.
Saezio (EUNE)
: Check electro and conqueror pick percentages in plat+ Then check again at masters+ Draw your own conclusions Edit : [Count the electros](https://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Sylas)
Source Edit: And yet OTPs Sylas players seem to carry more Electrocute/Aftershock than Conqueror and are finding better successr. I have seen 3 challenger players that carry mostly Electrocute when they play Sylas and they have way more Wins than Losses.
Saezio (EUNE)
: I agree partly. But sylas suffers a lot from people playing him wrong. 67% are picking electrocute for the love of god. xD
Yeah, I agree too. All those challengers and High Elo players taking Electrocute with Sylas... they are sure so bad. The must have no idea how to play him. Most of his playerbase (which is barely 2.4% Pick Rate) is unfortunately unable to understand the champion. That must be it. Edit: Aftershock Sylas is situational. Extremely dependant on the matchup.
: > [{quoted}](name=macspam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hfNufnUH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-11T05:11:21.184+0000) > > I dont mind his defensive capabilities, having longer more drawn out fights that last more than a single rotation is good for the game. But sylas with lich bane deathcap will basically kill you with a auto W. Like legit its just over loaded as hell i feel like he has the azir syndrom they need to get rid of the dmg or the heal and shield. He just has way to much. Maybe remove some of his cc no reason his hook should stun you as well.
My friend, as tilted as you may be, take a look at his WinRate before making any complaints. Every champion can destroy you if you do bad. Sylas is not the exception. If you have proof that you were playing better than the Sylas' player, we would want to see it.
Terozu (NA)
: I will say her combo is probably faster as well, but I don't think a full combo from Akali does as much as Sylas, and the mechanics in her kit seem far more difficult. I'd have to actually do the math on that though and I'm to tired to, I'll do it tomorrow. She has one more dash than Sylas though three of her dashes aren't reliant on a target, but they can _also_ be dodged making them less valuable since hitting them is more required for her. Also, since Akali's Q is gated by a high Energy cost you actually have to consider that, saying she can Q twice from full Energy, you can consider it charge based. She gets 1 'charge' every 10/9.5/9/8.5/8 seconds, hitting her passive refunding 1 second. And unlike actual charge based spells that can't be lowered by cdr. Though her W gives her one free charge. I will also point out that Sylas' Q has higher base damage and it requires 2 Akali Qs to match one Sylas Q anyways. Their passive damages are roughly equal but lean in Sylas' favor due to natural ad scaling and his passive dealing damage equal to a crit + AP scaling. Basically, to match Sylas' damage Akali needs to Q twice and get both assassin's marks on the enemy, this will match Sylas' getting the first part of his Q off and his passive off. If the second part of his Q goes off he wins. Akali has to reposition way more to get her passive her slow is conditional and very narrow area and she has much less aoe damage in general. Akali has to work harder for less damage. And then Sylas is also safer. Now I feel like this comment is probably nonsensical and confusing because I can barely hold my eyes open. So I'm going to bed.
2 Akali's Q do nearly same damage than Sylas Q1+Q2, but they are more consistent to land and slow enemies by 50% (+40% - 70% Speed Buff) while Sylas Q only slows enemies by 15% - 35% (only 50% when the player hits both parts which is easily avoidable, opposed to Akali's Qs.) This concludes in Akali having an easier time using her pasive and comboing. I don't see any difficulty doing this since missing Akali's Q is really difficult and after hitting the opponent you are almost warranted a free pasive hit with that 50% slow + Speed Buff. Let's also mention how Akali's passive deals 39 − 180 (based on level) (+ 50% AP) and restores energy, while Sylas passive deals 5 − 47.5 (based on level) (+ 20% AP) and doesn't recuperate any mana while being an expensive ability for Sylas mana pool. Are you seriously saying that Sylas builds AD??? Let's ignore that and keep discussing. In general Akali does way more damage than Sylas because the damage you say she doesn't have in her Q, she has it in her passive while Sylas has a stronger Q (harder to hit also) but has a weaker passive. Saying that a free dash is weaker than a gap closer because it can be avoided is something irrational. Ask anyone what is better: A gap closer which requieres a target to be used (only works as offensive) or a free dash that can be used agressively or defensively. Answer is pretty obvious. I will also want to mention how Akali R has 2 free dashes that are way, and I mean WAY LONGER than Sylas' E and do way more damage while being AOE btw. Also, Keep in mind that Sylas' R is a double-edged knife. Sometimes useful and sometimes useless. Extremely conditional while Akali's R is as strong as always. I have seen you showing the upsides of Sylas' R but I never seen you pointing the downsides.
Terozu (NA)
: ? Sylas Passive: Lich Bane with Ravenous Hydra centered on Sylas. Q: Aoe X damage that leaves a bubble which pops to deal damage again and slow. W: dashes to the target and heals based off missing health(even at high health it heals more than Akali's old healing). E: Dash and gain an above average strength shield. Second E: Throw out skill shot that stuns, dash to stunned target and knock them up. R: Use any opponents ult with their cooldown before you can use their ult again and your own cooldown before you can steal someone else's ult. Morrigan Passive: Every third auto deals bonus aoe damage. Q(1): Skill shot that deals minimal damage but marks target. If Mark is detonated by her abilities high damage. W(2): Send a clone to a specific spot and stealth. If you take damage or deal it remove stealth, if clone takes damage becomes a badass bird and flies away. E(3): Snare all enemies in front of you in melee range. R(4): Become an enemy or ally for X seconds, you have their full kit. Cooldown is based on whether you used their ult or not. Akali Passive: After hitting a target with an ability and successfully disengaging(or more difficultly, chasing) your next auto will do bonus damage and minorly restore energy. Q: AoE attack with a smaller aoe that slows. W: Shroud that makes you invisible within it's moving aoe and move buff, also large energy recover. E: Throw skill shot and dash opposite way. If hit you can dash to hit enemy. R: Dash with little damage to microstun targets. After a moderate lock out dash again to execute. My issue with Sylas is, they're actually very similar. Passive is an enhanced auto, but Sylas' is flat out better. Q is an aoe attack with a conditional slow. But Sylas' has a larger aoe for both and deals more damage. W is a great defense tool. But Akali forces her to go passive to make use of it. E free dash, conditional skill shot dash. Their base kit is really similar, but well, Sylas is just better. He has better burst, better sustain, more aoe, better single target. Then you get to ults. Sylas can complement that same amount of safety, and damage and mobility, with a ton of different options. Sylas' kit is more overloaded than Akali's, but she's hated and he's not really mentioned.
I can't say anything about the comparison with Morrigan since I don't know that character well enough but with regards to Akali, let me say why Akali is consistently more of a problem than Sylas. While it is true that Sylas Q1+Q2 could do more damage than 1 Akali Q if the Sylas player is good enough to hit both parts (which is nothing easy btw), Akali's Q is much easier to land on an enemy and has nearly no CD. Compare 1.5s CD to 9/8/7/6/5s CD. Akali is also much more mobile than Sylas in most aspects. She has more movement tools than Sylas and also most of them are dashes which give her more freedom of movement around the map and better roaming. As an extra detail, she has way much more burst damage than Sylas and her combo is much more easier to do than Sylas's combo and even faster.
Terozu (NA)
: Why was Akali so hated, but Sylas is fine?
Maybe because his abilities aren't in 1 second CD and because he doesn't have 4 dashes? What else do you think might be?
: FINALLY jungle Sylas. I haven't even watched the video but of these changes will make him viable in the jungle, I'm happy.
You still play jungle? We need more people like you, so that I don't get autofilled jg anymore.
: I'm liking the direction that they're taking with sylas
I thought that there was no way that Sylas Winrate could go lower, but hey, you guys showed me that once again I was wrong. There is nothing bad with the way you want Sylas to be played except that the meta we are in is a damage meta and the non-existent AP bruiser itemnization. However, seeing you guys working on Sylas was good. Thanks for trying.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zeyphel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Yzy2IPxj,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-30T14:01:21.468+0000) > > People won't understand that. They feel like if they can't destroy him in seconds, then it is bad design. > > Definitely something that should be fixed. > > Unfortunately, people were used to beat him in lane without doing anything at all and without having to worry about being hitted by him. Changing their mentaility would be a challenge. > > Also, some people are vague to learn. Therefore they prefer to complain because they think that if the champion gets nerfed, then they don't need to learn to play against him. As someone who gets destroyed by Aatrox and hates him, any tips you an give or?
I can add you and go into more details depending on the matchup.
: Got an Iron 4 player on my team as a gold
Riot: All working as intended!
: I Wish the Game Was a Coin Flip
Actually, the 50/50 forced winrate is one of the biggests problems leading to unfair matches.
: > [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Yzy2IPxj,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-30T10:50:57.385+0000) > > Pull back on his hotfix buffs. Aatrox has 38 armor at level 1 which is too high for a champion who deals so much damage at a distance and can reliably whittle opponents down without committing to a short range trade, especially when Aatrox ramps up into a sustain beast. If an opponent gets to him early they should be allowed to make more damage stick. Lower it to 33 and he will be fine. I disagree; Aatrox is a juggernaut, he *needs* juggernaught stats to fit his class. The hotfix buffs(more damage and armour) helped him deal with opponents that simply had to get in melee range of him to hard counter him, now he has more power to fight back and defend himself. > Make R's healing bonuses apply to self healing only. Its very unreasonable how borderline unkillable he becomes without landing his Qs simply by having a healer teammate. I agree with this; the R change makes him unstoppable when paired with soraka, yuumi etc,. > I have played as Aatrox more than against since his changes and it is very silly how effective I was able to be even if I was behind. I believe players just need to learn how to play against him. He is extremely predictable and you learn his limits, weaknesses and strengths when you play against him often. I also heard his winrate has gone down. I'd give it a few more weeks before concluding on nerfs
> [{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Yzy2IPxj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-30T12:06:07.859+0000) > I disagree; Aatrox is a juggernaut, he *needs* juggernaught stats to fit his class. The hotfix buffs(more damage and armour) helped him deal with opponents that simply had to get in melee range of him to hard counter him, now he has more power to fight back and defend himself. People won't understand that. They feel like if they can't destroy him in seconds, then it is bad design. > I agree with this; the R change makes him unstoppable when paired with soraka, yuumi etc,. Definitely something that should be fixed. > I believe players just need to learn how to play against him. He is extremely predictable and you learn his limits, weaknesses and strengths when you play against him often. I also heard his winrate has gone down. I'd give it a few more weeks before concluding on nerfs. Unfortunately, people were used to beat him in lane without doing anything at all and without having to worry about being hitted by him. Changing their mentaility would be a challenge. Also, some people are vague to learn. Therefore they prefer to complain because they think that if the champion gets nerfed, then they don't need to learn to play against him.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zeyphel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g5ZtiVFq,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2019-05-26T06:41:11.039+0000) > > ''Speed of sound'' You are completely exagerating, but that's okay; players often do that when they are tilted and if you see an Aatrox trying to dive your team you just focus him and he dies because his revive only actives if he gets to kill one of your teammates. If you are staying under tower with 1 hp and expecting him not to R and go for the kill, then the one making mistakes is you. It's not Aatrox faults that people don't know what overextent is. > > The sustain is good but is not anything that will stop you from killing him if you focus him. If you ignore him, that's your own problem. Don't come to boards to complain if you gifted him a kill and a free revive with it when you weren't supposed to be there. Except that his sustain is ridiculous and applies to **ALL** healing sources, meaning that if they have any competent enchanter or any other frontliner to help he will plow through your entire team. There's a reason he's sitting at 52% WR with a high pickrate despite him being a "hard" champion.
That is the only thing I agree that should be fixed about Aatrox. I think the rest of his kit is balanced on the skill of both players: The one playing Aatrox and the oponent.
: sylas is insane because hes a champ thats designed to fight and actually do well without an ult.
Yeah, but somehow he is keeping a winrate of 47% to 48%. Maybe he needs a nerf?
: > He has damage levels near Zed, and a shorter dash. Zed is not considered Overpowered. Care to explain why you say AAtrox is overpowered? Zed doesn't dive straight into the enemy team and sustains through everything they throw at him while also chaining kills and being tanky. Who needs a longer dash when you're running at the enemy at the speed of sound?
''Speed of sound'' You are completely exagerating, but that's okay; players often do that when they are tilted and if you see an Aatrox trying to dive your team you just focus him and he dies because his revive only actives if he gets to kill one of your teammates. If you are staying under tower with 1 hp and expecting him not to R and go for the kill, then the one making mistakes is you. It's not Aatrox faults that people don't know what overextent is. The sustain is good but is not anything that will stop you from killing him if you focus him. If you ignore him, that's your own problem. Don't come to boards to complain if you gifted him a kill and a free revive with it when you weren't supposed to be there.
: then the aatrox you played against sucks lol
I could say the same about the players who complain about Aatrox. Could there be any possibility that their skill level is lower? No way, they are surely too good to make mistakes. The champion! That must be it!
: any aatrox player who isnt drunk, high or first timing the champion wont let you do that. he will throw his q1 before you jump on him or he will cancel your jump with q1 (takes practice but a veteran aatrox can pull it off), when you jump he will w you and q2e backwards and q3 you, auto you and walk away. what happens is that you ate his full combo along with all the sweetspots and you did no damage to him.
I never mentioned you to jump on him if he haven't used his Q1, but when he is about to use Q3 and surprisingly this new Aatrox is far from being as tanky as before after loosing the immediate revive. Predicting where you are going to move to try hitting you (As Aatrox) takes as much skill as the enemy player to avoid being hitted with the strongest parts of Aatrox Qs. In general, I would say a skill matchup. The only thing that makes some people belief that he is too strong is because they weren't used to be punished by Aatrox so hard for bad plays and now when they face someone who has a way to answer to random agression, unskilled players get desesperated for the kill and end giving Aatrox a substantial amount of gold.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zeyphel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g5ZtiVFq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-24T16:24:42.206+0000) > > Aatrox is strong, but not overpowered. You just have to play around his Qs. Q1 and Q2 attack him from melee ranged and save your dash (if you have one) for Q3 and that's it. You have to be mindful of where his Q crits. After you know it, you can flip the table. > > Also, now he can't dive you without risks like before. Some people get mad at him because they can't AA him to death early game. > > He has damage levels near Zed, and a shorter dash. Zed is not considered Overpowered. Care to explain why you say AAtrox is overpowered? This is true, BUT any smart Aatrox will just mouse over where the person dashing is going to be. For instance, ANYTIME I fought an Irelia top as Aatrox, she'd always end up behind me after dashing. I'd just mouse over and target behind me to hit her.
Play with Aatrox's mind. His Q3 casting takes some time. If he doesn't hit you with the center, he won't strike you too hard. Sadly, Irelia's dash is targetted but still you should have more than one direction to dash. Wait until you see him use Q3 and then dash. He probably thinks you will move to the side of your tower to avoid Q3. Move to the opposite side then. I have tried it and they get confused and I take almost no damage. I didn't even dashed, he himself dash to south thinking I was going to avoid his Q3 that way, and I just moved 2 steps up. He did no damage to me and I won the trade. Strategy to beat him is simple. Attack him at melee range if he haven't used Q1 and after he uses Q3 use your dash or move to the opposite direction.
iDarkWind (EUW)
: Are you really comparing Zed to Aatrox lmao
In terms of damage? Yes In terms of utility? No They are both champions that are heavily rewarded when they do combos perfectly and use skill abilities. People just refuse to learn to play against Aatrox now that he is not garbage. Complaints are just the result of Aatrox being in a bad state during so much time. Some people got used to defeat him smashing the keyboard, and now when they try to kill him randomly they are failing which drives them crazy and then they complain infinitely. Aatrox is not going to recibe any big nerf. If anything a really little one to calm the crying of unskilled players.
: Before renerfing Aatrox into the ground, consider reverting some of the hotfix's changes
Aatrox is strong, but not overpowered. You just have to play around his Qs. Q1 and Q2 attack him from melee ranged and save your dash (if you have one) for Q3 and that's it. You have to be mindful of where his Q crits. After you know it, you can flip the table. Also, now he can't dive you without risks like before. Some people get mad at him because they can't AA him to death. He has damage levels near Zed, and a shorter dash. Zed is not considered Overpowered. Care to explain why you say AAtrox is overpowered?
Zeyphel (NA)
: You probably have the highest IQ that I have seen in a while.
The inability of some people to understand sarcasm is common, but it never stops surprising me.
: Daily reminder that the jungle needs to be nerfed
You probably have the highest IQ that I have seen in a while.
Madsin25 (NA)
: My tip for you is abuse him before he gets nerfed to the ground for being the most cancerous top laner to exist atm.
So, you're mad because Aatrox actually rewards the player by their skill unlike some busted champions that I prefer not to mention which have been keeping an insanely high winrate toplane and only require to spam buttons? Sorry, my friend. Maybe is time that you start playing more with your brain than with your hands.
: {{champion:36}} goes where he pleases
: Squishy immobile with laughably bad cc. Pick any burst and she just crumbles immediately.
Yeah, poor champion and I am yet here wondering how such a weak champions has nearly 55% WR with 15% PR. (54% WR in Masters+) Who knows maybe Masters and Challengers are too bad playing against her and refuse to learn how to play against Jinx. That should be it.
: If your only argument is "there is too much damage already" then you instantly lose.
Yeah, that is my argument. Summarized. Ignite has no place in a game with these levels of damage. Going into more details won't change your opinion. I don't understand why you try to look like you would agree in other case when the thing is that most people enjoy using Ignite. Runes give too much damage. Champions have too much damage. Infernal Drake gives too much damage. Items give too much damage. And many other things. Not saying that you enjoy using ignite, but most people do. Who won't enjoy killing a target after missing your most important abilities anyways. It is a free kill securer on short CD.
uNhoLeee (OCE)
: sad players have no idea how ignite is useful. assassins AA combo? lmao.
Ignite makes champions who are not supposed to do too much damage, oneshot you, or provide a point and click execution when you are low health in a game that everything can drop you low in health. Since you say I am sad, illuminate me and show me how this should make me happy. Don't bother mentioning the grievous wounds effect since most people use ignite for damage and not for GW.
Rioter Comments
: The game lacks basic logic
The thing is that it have been proved that most people don't like to play a regular tank (high survivability, low damage, hard CC,). People want to play this kind of Tank: (high survivability, high damage, hard CC). Some type of Hulk which brokes your bones almost killing you after 1 attack and lets you unable to do anything and laying on the ground (CCed) during 3 seconds.
: Turrets should do less damage in bronze/iron
Yeah, and lets make the game a diving party lvl 1.
: Mummy is fine. Not every champion needs a vicious learning curves and minigames in their kit. We need extremely simple, easy to pick up, champions too. As for the thread, even Riot Tryndamere stated that Tryndamere's kit was one of their worse designs, was pretty much outdated on release, and that he doesn't even play the mess. [(somewhere in this interview)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcIESs9hlnM)
: IF The only thing that Matters is MMR and Rank Doesnt Worth Shit Then show me My MMR not my RANK
It is funny that you are being ranked by your rank, yet you get matched in games by your MMR. Gold Players matched against Diamond 2 player to get out of gold. Totally fine.
Rioter Comments
: his win rate also seems to have dropped when they increased his cooldown on E from 12 seconds at rank 1 to 18 seconds after already dealing with his healing in the previous patch... he had been reduced to a 50% win rate, now he's 47% they're making his kit weak like it HAS to be because the very best can abuse it. He still averages 50% in diamond and above and before the nerfs that pushed him to 47%, his ban rate was above 40% ... https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Sylas/graphs/ https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Sylas/historic/ The ability is incredibly powerful: it makes his power entirely dependent upon his opponents, making him very flexible if the person knows how to handle him. In addition to that, he has multiple mobility spells, a shield, a large heal and a reliable early game that scales into the late game...
All good except that he doesn't scale as good as you think in late game. His early game is good but he is not as strong as early game bullies and he doesn't scale as good as most mages. He has base damage but his scaling is nothing special.
: how about putting it this way: he has all of the strengths of his opponents ultimates without the weaknesses most of his opponents have, so for champions that have very powerful ultimates and have to suffer in their kit for it, Sylas does not
Is that so? Don't you ever realize that his own kit is his weakness and his R is not enough to compensate it? Why would the champion with such powerful abilities have those low Winrates??? :Thinking:
Syrile (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Zeyphel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zypGi5ET,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-05-02T20:35:44.025+0000) > > He is not op in regular play. In fact, he is really bad in teamfights, and his R is situational. Which is why I said he was op in pro play. :) And specified gutted for regular play. To be honest though, depending on enemy comp, Sylas can be pretty good. However, he requires a lot of a player and most people cannot do the required things to play him.
He has been given oportunities in pro play and he is still developing worse than many other utility mages. His R was the only thing decent in his kit for team fights and again is situational, depending on Rs of enemy team. He wasn't op in pro play. He was just a counterpick for CC bots. He was strong against this composition but he was never too strong to be considered an op champion.
: Why is noone banning or playing sylas?
Champion is having a 46% top and 47% mid, but yeah he is really fun to play and feels really good to do his combos. The problem is that he is not as rewarding as many other champions who do less than him. His abilities can be easily avoided and if you manage to hit all of them with AA resets and everything, it is still not as rewarding as doing full combo perfectly with other champs. And the last thing is that once you use all your abilities, you have to wait until tomorrow to be able to do your full combo again while you watch other champions spamming abilities and bursting everyone.
: I mean, full ap seems to be fruitless
but there is not a decent AP bruiser itemnization in the game
Syrile (NA)
: Because he is gutted for regular play and op in pro play. Typical nonsense from Riot. Basically, to be good with Sylas, you have to be really good or play really weak opponents.
He is not op in regular play. In fact, he is really bad in teamfights, and his R is situational.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zeyphel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2hf8FHrf,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2019-04-30T19:08:05.638+0000) > > Play Sylas in Ranked, come and talk with me then. Hard pass on that one friend. Murphy's Law, the one time I decide to bust him out is the time when people at my ranking will remember that exec's calling exists.
He is right now too situation and has a lot of bad matchups in mid. Therefore the 47%WR mid and 46% Top. First picking him is trolling. He does way less burst than many mages, not even talking about assasins. His healing is not what it used to be so exec's calling is not even necessary. Once he uses all his CD, he better runs because they are so long that he will have them again tomorrow. The only dash he has (E1) has long CD and is really short. E2 is really dangerous because it requires to travel to enemy location and also does non-existent damage. Q and E2 are skillshots with such a short hitbox that can be easily avoided. Champion is just too bad right now to be played in Ranked.
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Zeyphel

Level 56 (NA)
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