: A lot of thought went in to this. It's interesting, though a bit complicated. What I think is coolest about it, is that it lets Wukong be more flexible, and it might give him bursts of feeling how he does in URF, which is a blast. I think it could be a good option. What I think may be worth thinking about is how CDR would affect it. Once you have enough CDR, youd basically be able to mimic it immediately after casting it. So, at max cdr and max level Q, you'd almost be able to: aa, Q, aa, Mimic, aa, Q (cuz its almost back up)
Yeah, I think this passive has a lot of potential to break Wukong's kit. Implementation of it must be done with caution and good balancing, but If done correctly I think that it is a fun way to add more creativity and mix ups to Wukong
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TheLastDino (EUNE)
: i like these ideas but, i think his passive giving him a flat 100 armor at full health just as bonus armor is way to powerful early on. poke champs can hurt him yes, but their poke will be weak early and with high mana cost he'll cost them all their mana before he's half health. maybe make it scaling? start with 75 (1-5) bonus armor into 100 (6-11), 125 (12-17) into finally 150 (18). this would help him scale better into lategame aswell giving him good pressure early (though worse than before) but more overall use as a tank late game. also, mentioning his R turning into steam, maybe every few second when his R is up, or just after using a W he'll went out steam from (add number here) directions from him, kinda like Urgod's shotgun knees. but RNG. it could be from just his back or maybe his arms. overall it would be cool as a small effect that skillfull players could use effectively
I'm not a fan of the RNG, but I can imagine your idea really well. < 3
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: I respect your points there and I agree. My two last bits: I think that when yu have the Grand skyfall as an ult, it already makes you a setup champion. I also wouldn't want to inforce insec in his kit, but it's something you cannot avoid with a kit like this and that might cause a balance poblem between elos. On the other hand most of divers do not have an escape, so in the end it's probably better to leave it targeted, as a lane bully with an escape is incredibly toxic and frustrating to play against (like Gnar). Which brings me to the second bit, which might only be a clash of opinions: I think that champions reliant on snowballing off of 2nd level (little hyperbole, just early game in general) are not a good concept and Riot doesn't like it either, that's why hey are trying to make champions less feast or famine when they are reworking them. I personally wouldn't go for a design like this because of this reason.
They don't want champions to rely on snowballing to be useful but then there are champions like Darius. He is made to be a lane bully that just does not get beat, and that is exactly what he offers to his team, A lane that will win itself 90% of the time. Just like Darius, Pantheon will have these tools to win most of his match ups. Him winning lane will be very consistent and the player has to use his lead to contribute to his team. Its not like other champions who need early kills to be strong, but have bad match ups that shut down the entire champion. Pantheon will be built on the idea that he will win lane and the skill will be how hard they win and how well they can push their lead. Lastly, being ganked can shut down these kind of champions like Darius but at the very least they still pull the jungler to their lane countless times just to even the lane.
: Wow an actual objective conversation with arguments? I thought these were C&C Boards... Putting alot of damage into his Q is the last possible solution to pick, because when you put most of the power budget into one spell, it creates a frustrating Blitzcrank scenario when dodging one skillshot decides the whole outcome, them most relatable comparison being S4 midlane Nidalee (because Javelin Toss, lol) - fortunately your version of Pantheon has way lower mobility and no sustain, so that is in his favor. I personally think that it is the low mobility (which you completely preserved) that makes him a problem to balance because if his damage is not absurd, he gets outscaled by 99% of toplaners - Jayce is important to mention because he's exactly your version of Pantheon but more overloaded (swaps form only by himself, his poke has longer range, provides speed boos for his team). You could make his W [Spear] a skillshot, which would give him an escape and also allow the spell to deal more damage because it's a skillshot, so you wouldn't need to load alot of damage to the Javelin Toss. It would also make him easier to balance for all elos as his insec would be easier to pull off (you are allowed to jump to the preffered position if you fuck up Grand Skyfall's exact placement - for the sacrifice of escape) without Flash. The stun would encourage him to use it aggressively. And what is absolutely awesome is that his CC would still be reliable, but not as disgustingly uninteractive, because his trade combo would change like this: - You walk up for a CS - Pantheon: AA, **knockback**, **stun-jump**, AA, Heartseeker - Pantheon is still in melee range so he cannot block AA and all his CC is on CD - Trade continues As for the knockback distance being halfed (300 units I suppose?), might be a solution, but I'm not sure if max. HP threshhold is a good idea simply because it uses to be pretty clunky/unclear (like Irelia's stun). Maybe 2-3 AAs (and possibly abilities) applying stacks on the enemy that then gets marked as *distracted* (knockback on distracted units is doubled) would work better. <3
Yeah, the greater knock back after a few autos works better. Using health can vary and make Pantheon even more worthless when behind. where using the 3 basic attack system will let him still effectively use his q when behind as well as preserving his early trades where he wont deal half of his opponents health. This does slow down his combos when he is in the late game which sucks but Im happy with for sure. With the rework Im looking to keep him as a very strong early champion who needs to get a lead early and then snowball it w/ roaming to be any use to his team. Falling off late (as well ad adding more counter play) is a fine way to balance that, which makes me think that your point about the dashing to any location isn't a good idea. Pantheon having his gap closer doesn't actually make him a mobile champion because where he can dash is very limited, This is a point you made and I agree. However I think allowing him to dash wherever he wants gives him too much power in team fights, He already has un-needed defense with his ability to knock any unwanted opponent away from him. Giving him even more ways to peel for himself or re-position in a fight makes his snowballing damage aspect way to powerful, and the snowballing is something that I would like to keep. You also expressed how the skillshot dash would give him more ways to use that insec combo, but the insec combo Is something I would actually like to avoid. Some utility has already been added too his kit, and that on top of his powerful laneing can go a far way, I would not like to push it any farther for balancing reasons and to stick to his kind of characteristics. What Pantheon brings too your team should not be utility and set up (something that Camile and Lee Sin do), instead I would like to see his power coming from the fact that he won lane and he is stronger that the enemy teams toplaner, and even tho their top may be more adequate at team fighting, they are too weak in comparison to Pantheon who has been snowballing the game since he got first blood level 2. When it comes to my point about pushing more damage onto his Q I think you took it too far, He can still have solid damage in his kit. You just need to make sure that there is a balance where, his damage without the ranged Q in some cases is not worth taking because the trade back from the opponent may out damage him due to his under-utilization of both Stances. Making landing your Q the deciding factor in some matchups can be a healthy direction to push the champion. That being said, I don't want this to be true for all matchups, Some should just be really really good matchups for Pantheon, and whether or not he uses his kit to its maximum potential should only determine how hard he is bullying rather than if he wins the fight or not. That aside, your point about Jayce was really funny to me. I didn't notice until just now how similar their kits are. I do imagine that both champions, though similar, could still exist together and keep their own strengths and weaknesses separate. These points are good. This feed back gives me a better idea of how my ideas will actually play out. Tell me what you think if you still care at this point < 3
: You think laning against Pantheon as a melee is toxic now? Watch this rework idea. Basically how any trade would go: - Enemy you wants one CS, walks up to get it. - Pantheon: AA, stun, E, puts you on half of your max health - You try to trade back, your auto is dodged and you are kicked away Teamfight: Pantheon drops down with ult behind the enemy, AA, knockback and stun-jump an enemy for a free Insec with easy escape. Otherwise it seems nice, but one of those CCs needs to go.
> [{quoted}](name=BisexualPlantBoi,realm=EUNE,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=0ydFAvcu,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-28T09:47:10.456+0000) > > You think laning against Pantheon as a melee is toxic now? Watch this rework idea. > > Basically how any trade would go: > - Enemy you wants one CS, walks up to get it. > - Pantheon: AA, stun, E, puts you on half of your max health > - You try to trade back, your auto is dodged and you are kicked away > > Teamfight: > Pantheon drops down with ult behind the enemy, AA, knockback and stun-jump an enemy for a free Insec with easy escape. > > Otherwise it seems nice, but one of those CCs needs to go. I Like these thoughts but problems like his trading in lane can be avoided, such as putting a lot of his damage on his ranged Q and maybe removing the small AOE of it, while lowering the overall Spear Stance damage. This would make a trade like the one you described less punishing. Additionally you will have to be kicked away before he can block an auto attack, as he would still be in Spear Stance. You bring up a very valid point about how powerful his flanks can be with this new kit. Chunking the back line and pushing them into the middle of a fight is something that very experienced lee sin players are know for doing and is not something you want to see coming from a duelist. The fact that Pantheon could do this with a follow up stun is not good. The first change that comes to mind would be to make it so that the knock back distance is halved when the opponent is above half health. This forces the Pantheon to have to stick to them longer before they can pull off such a combo, granting more time for the team to react. This change also does not interfere too much with the overall features of his kit, but does push away his ability to peel himself, which can be a fair nerf in itself. I appreciate these comments the most. It can be hard to think of ways that the kit can be exploited on my own, there are a lot of possibilities and I might also be tunnel visioning too hard on the details that I like. < 3
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: > [{quoted}](name=Seraphim117,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UgJkAord,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-31T00:08:21.315+0000) > > its fine from my view ( a gp main) he&#x27;s always weird with item interactions, I like that and feel like it helps seperate bad and good gps Also it adds counter play to his new basically 0 counter play kit. His new kit is toxic and really shouldn't get free armor pen on top of AoE bonus damage and on hits combined with crit. Basically its the only thing keeping him in check until they realize he's a failed rework because he is totally unbalancable with the stats they gave him.
Seems like its not that bad to me. You can dodge his barrels or take them out with auto attacks. Just because it deals high damage does not automatically mean that it has no counter play
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: > [{quoted}](name=CastRequiem,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=ygBxzP9B,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-08-22T00:10:32.967+0000) > > they plan on making him a ap bruiser mid. Post your source for that statement. Your credibility hinges on it Good ideas though
Well shit, I swear Ive seen them say something about it but I can't find it. Either I suck or I just imagined it. Anyways I guess I will remove that part cuz it seems to be incorrect / unsupported.
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: As a j4 player I would really, really, really miss the shield. Also this would really hurt his time in the jungle. I like the charging flags idea though. The others are iffy imo.
He would lose out on his instant shield to prevent burst/ poke. but his e shielding should still give him ok survivability in the jg. And better ganking with his stun passive
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: The thing that makes him really strong is his W early on. He can outpush anyone and use that lane preasre to roam with his E. What you want with aurelion is useing the early preasure to impact the map and snowball. Once his team is ahead, he really is good for both splitpushing and siegeing. Shoveing his Q down a lane can zone opponents away from a tower for a few sec, allowing your team to deal alot damage on it basically for free. His aoe potential in teamfights also is quite high, but not as explosive as orianna or such. Basically, yes, with same kda, orianna or karthus would be stronger mid-late, but his early roams are way more potent than theirs.
: Sol is a champion that gets better the better you are at positioning and having a team that coordinates around you automatically. That and Rylai's. In LCS where the team has been practicing around Sol all the time they're essentially creating zones of control where everyone who enters takes good damage over time and are slowed. Which is a massive advantage for a team that can use and abuse that power. But for your normal scrubs like me, where the team doesn't coordinate enough to abuse the slows and damage he's fairly average a champion I think. His winrate certainly plummets as soon as you get below Platinum.
Thank you for the response. much love < 3 :P
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InTheory (EUW)
: ***
Well sorta. it does not scale with your max hp. but an 100 (just a random number) shield is stronger on a champ w/ alot of armor and mr. rather than a champ with low resistances
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Dealth (NA)
: (W) Empowered Aegis * Grant Jarvan IV a small shield, if cast again within 1 second the shield is increased. If not cast again half the cooldown is refunded.
Yeah basically
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Zokie0 (NA)
: What kind of music is used in Lulu's login screen?
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: change zileans passive back.

Zokie0

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