: > [{quoted}](name=anonymous119,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=NnvgAxY5,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-20T10:23:50.209+0000) > > For more context on what happened and why: > > This is the owner of c9 talking about why the changed happened. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsvunHO8Ac4&feature=youtu.be > > This is the coach of c9 talking about why he recommended the change. > https://www.invenglobal.com/lol/articles/5366/c9-reapered-gives-his-honest-reasoning-behind-the-roster-changes > > tldr: Reapered believed that the way things were going with c9 that the team wouldn't make worlds this year and that radical changes were needed. > > I really don't know what kind of life you're going to live if you honestly believe that being reprimanded at your job for a lack of effort is bullying. It seemed like a fairly straight forward decision. The c9a team were winning their scrims and the c9 main team were struggling. They tried to put the best performing players on their main roster. Smoothie is a bit unfortunate as he was benched to keep the bot lane synergy from their academy team and wasn't the motivation problems they were having with sneaky/jensen. Scrims are just that. Controlled scrimages to work on one thing or another. Playing a full game is a different animal and C9 is struggling. The A team at least made the playoffs. This team is 1-3 having beaten only Optic and losing to Clutch, Golden Guardians, and 100 thieves. They have yet to play against Fox, TSM, and Liquid. Lose those and they will have dug themselves a hole. Though it certainly isn't time to panic yet after just two weeks, it's time to raise an eyebrow. And trashing ones team and throwing them under the bus is something an owner should know better than to do. Handle that stuff in house.
> [{quoted}](name=BigBellBrute,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=NnvgAxY5,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-06-24T21:59:38.002+0000) > > Scrims are just that. Controlled scrimages to work on one thing or another. Playing a full game is a different animal and C9 is struggling. The A team at least made the playoffs. This team is 1-3 having beaten only Optic and losing to Clutch, Golden Guardians, and 100 thieves. They have yet to play against Fox, TSM, and Liquid. Lose those and they will have dug themselves a hole. Though it certainly isn't time to panic yet after just two weeks, it's time to raise an eyebrow. And trashing ones team and throwing them under the bus is something an owner should know better than to do. Handle that stuff in house. It's easier to argue these things in hindsight. When I made that comment they were 1-1 and looked fairly good in both games. I would agree that this last week was bad for the team. One of my favorite things as a fan is when watching a struggling pro swap teams and suddenly start putting up all star performances. I'd imagine c9 was hoping that this time on the bench would bring a similar change in performance to the c9 stars. I don't think any one expected this to a permanent move. The question wasn't if they would return, but when they would. I wouldn't be surprised if they announced an additional roster swap this week or next.
Kyth (NA)
: C9 management are serious bullies.
For more context on what happened and why: This is the owner of c9 talking about why the changed happened. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsvunHO8Ac4&feature=youtu.be This is the coach of c9 talking about why he recommended the change. https://www.invenglobal.com/lol/articles/5366/c9-reapered-gives-his-honest-reasoning-behind-the-roster-changes tldr: Reapered believed that the way things were going with c9 that the team wouldn't make worlds this year and that radical changes were needed. I really don't know what kind of life you're going to live if you honestly believe that being reprimanded at your job for a lack of effort is bullying. It seemed like a fairly straight forward decision. The c9a team were winning their scrims and the c9 main team were struggling. They tried to put the best performing players on their main roster. Smoothie is a bit unfortunate as he was benched to keep the bot lane synergy from their academy team and wasn't the motivation problems they were having with sneaky/jensen.
: Lcs Players and Ghosting
It was a fairly big scandal when the players could see the broadcast monitor at worlds a couple years ago. Multiple players were caught turning around to look at it which would be considered ghosting. Riot is a pretty good company at realizing its own mistakes and nothing like that has happened again as far as I'm aware. Pro players have some one standing ~3 feet behind them at all times during matches. I would imagine it would be very hard to cheat with a referee literally looking over your shoulder at what is on your screen.
: NA LCS Finals and Doublelift
No matter what he does people will give him shit for it which is the sad part of this community. Some times the vocal minority is so vile that it can't help but draw all of the attention to itself. If you've ever read twitch chat, youtube chat, or youtube comments then you've seen what I'm referring to. This community will remind him about this event every single day he's on stream for the rest of his life. I personally will support him if he chooses to continue to play in the finals or if he chooses to take time off.
Sora Omo (NA)
: GGS vs TSM does GGS even have a chance?
No one has mentioned this yet, but the ggs vs tsm match is the first day on a new patch for competitive. An upset is absolutely possible. I personally am hoping for tsm/clg to qualify, but it's much more likely to be tsm/tl.
: Anyone who argues Bjerg is better than Jensen needs a reality check. There is not a single stat that points to that. Jensen is better in lane, supported by stats. Jensen is better out of lane, supported by stats. Jensen is better on a national stage, supported by record and stats. The head to head record is essentially the same, supported by record and stats. TSM can have 3 imports and offer top talent the most money, but Bjerg still cant succeed. You admit yourself that Jensen means more to his team, but this is also supported by stats. If Jensen played for TSM, they’d probably have a legitimate chance to win worlds. Bjerg simply cannot carry a team and his team cannot carry him.
> [{quoted}](name=IncrediPhiLL,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ApMekRAE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-12-08T16:10:13.436+0000) > > Anyone who argues Bjerg is better than Jensen needs a reality check. There is not a single stat that points to that. > > Jensen is better in lane, supported by stats. > Jensen is better out of lane, supported by stats. > Jensen is better on a national stage, supported by record and stats. > The head to head record is essentially the same, supported by record and stats. > TSM can have 3 imports and offer top talent the most money, but Bjerg still cant succeed. > You admit yourself that Jensen means more to his team, but this is also supported by stats. > > If Jensen played for TSM, they’d probably have a legitimate chance to win worlds. Bjerg simply cannot carry a team and his team cannot carry him. Jensen is an amazing player, but it's disingenuous to gloss over all of his flaws while trying to pitch him as the best mid playing in NA. Jensen has never won a split even after joining the team that had the most split wins of any organization at the time he joined. Jensen has choked at critical moments throughout his career. Jesnsen trades off being lane dominant by being a weaker roamer than many other mids in NA. From the voice comms I've heard jensen is no where near the vocal player that bjergson is. I'm not going to pretend tsm as a whole hasn't shit the bed internationally far too many times. I know the popular forum theory is to say that the only common player through out all of tsm's failures is bjergson so he's to blame. I disagree. TSM has pretty much documented what went wrong every year and for the most part it's the same problem with communication each year. Players like dyrus, santorin, biofrost, wildturtle... etc all went completely silent during world's matches. It was more of an organizational failure which I hope they've fixed with their new coaching staff. The tsm having the most money in NA fan theory really needs to die. Tsm was rich by esports standards when the other owners were just random people struggling to stay afloat. Tsm is one of the few organizations not backed by NBA teams, venture capitalists, or billionaire investors. Tsm would never win a bidding war with team liquid.
: At some point....hopefully....... Realistically tho, I don't think TSM or NA will ever win Worlds. 7 years and yet, NA takes every regions' talent and they still can't sniff the semifinals is a clear indication that it will most likely never happen. My eyes will be on Bjergsen to actually "try" to do something on the International stage, instead of shifting the blame on less talented players as well as from the fans. This is Bjergsen's time to actually show not only to the other International players that he belongs in their skill cap but also to the fans. Bjergsen has no more excuses for not actually winning or getting close to winning anything on the International stage. Any fans who think teams that have 40+ min games win or lose are bad should be very interested in this next split with TSM as Zven and Mithy are a bit better overall than say Double and Bio but they're games historically have been around that 40+ mins, not to mention besides that great MSI performance they too have a history of underachieving on the International stage.
> [{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=piPLTPyv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-07T05:40:39.061+0000) > > At some point....hopefully....... Realistically tho, I don't think TSM or NA will ever win Worlds. 7 years and yet, NA takes every regions' talent and they still can't sniff the semifinals is a clear indication that it will most likely never happen. > > My eyes will be on Bjergsen to actually "try" to do something on the International stage, instead of shifting the blame on less talented players as well as from the fans. This is Bjergsen's time to actually show not only to the other International players that he belongs in their skill cap but also to the fans. Bjergsen has no more excuses for not actually winning or getting close to winning anything on the International stage. > > Any fans who think teams that have 40+ min games win or lose are bad should be very interested in this next split with TSM as Zven and Mithy are a bit better overall than say Double and Bio but they're games historically have been around that 40+ mins, not to mention besides that great MSI performance they too have a history of underachieving on the International stage. If eu and na merge I think we have a chance. The more realistic option is if NA continues to absorb top eu and korean talent then we might have a chance. People focus too much on individual teams and less on the over all health of the league. If the bottom 7 teams are strong then it forces the top teams to improve to stay on top. When the bottom 7 teams are weak then the top teams coast by with out having their flaws exposed. I was super excited when echo fox picked up huni not because I'm an EF fan, but because it will force every single top laner in NA to improve or get stomped just as he forced this when he was on fnatic in eu and imt in na. I really hope an NA team is able to get pray and gorilla at some point for that exact same reason. Tsm has a strong roster, but so does clg, tl and I'm a fan of 100t wildcard. I don't think tsm's roster will dominate NA like our #1 teams have done in some splits in the past. I think spring will be a really tight race for number one.
Skÿy (NA)
: 100T adc
Qtpie is probably the highest paid person in all of lol esports. He would have to take a massive cut in pay to join any pro team and it seems unlikely that will ever happen. Most people think 100t will try to sign cody sun who is under contract with TL, but not on tl's starting roster.
Miror B (NA)
: See, I kinda beg to differ. For the longest time TSM has had top-tier (not the best in the world, but some of the best in their region) junglers only to turn them into the same arbitrary wardbots who get flamed year after year after year. Not only that, but these junglers haven't really been able to prove their skills within their own region afterwards (with amazing moving to origen and santorin being in challenger). While I'm not saying that Sven can and should be a god-tier jungler on C9 now, if he shows the same passive tendencies that he did on TSM with roughly the same circumstances (meh-tier toplaner, top-tier-for-NA mid, top-tier botlane) then we can definitively say that he didn't know how to play in his environment as opposed to the general belief of many that TSM just doesn't know how to effectively use their junglers properly.
> [{quoted}](name=Mye,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=KWzu1hqf,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-11-28T18:00:10.234+0000) > > See, I kinda beg to differ. For the longest time TSM has had top-tier (not the best in the world, but some of the best in their region) junglers only to turn them into the same arbitrary wardbots who get flamed year after year after year. Not only that, but these junglers haven't really been able to prove their skills within their own region afterwards (with amazing moving to origen and santorin being in challenger). While I'm not saying that Sven can and should be a god-tier jungler on C9 now, if he shows the same passive tendencies that he did on TSM with roughly the same circumstances (meh-tier toplaner, top-tier-for-NA mid, top-tier botlane) then we can definitively say that he didn't know how to play in his environment as opposed to the general belief of many that TSM just doesn't know how to effectively use their junglers properly. I don't think the forum coaches that we are will ever fully know what calls are made behind the scenes. The vast majority of the time that sven was on tsm his problem wasn't that he was too passive it was that he was too aggressive. In spring during his first year on tsm he had the most deaths of any jungler because of constant botched invades. This got fixed during summer 2016 tsm, but then started coming back during 2017 spring/msi/summer. It's possible that in trying to fix his bad invades the coaching staff went too far in getting him to play passive. I'd argue that this happened to wildturtle when they tried to tone down his flash forward play style. Members of tsm have commented while streaming that they would often tell sven to pick more aggressive jungle picks and that the decision to stick to tank junglers was his own call. I think for sven to be successful he needs his solo laners to be dominant. Sven looks lost when playing from behind. jensen is a good fit for that play style, but c9's rookie top laner is a massive unknown at this point.
Miror B (NA)
: I personally like the move, if only because it finally allows us to gauge TSM's jungle choices. If Sven goes back to his carry mentality and plays even slightly more aggressive, then we can definitively say that it's the coaches of tsm that kill their junglers and not the players.
> [{quoted}](name=Mye,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=KWzu1hqf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-28T16:06:10.378+0000) > > I personally like the move, if only because it finally allows us to gauge TSM's jungle choices. If Sven goes back to his carry mentality and plays even slightly more aggressive, then we can definitively say that it's the coaches of tsm that kill their junglers and not the players. I don't think it's as simple as saying if he starts playing aggressive again he'll be successful. At msi and early summer his blind aggressive invades were what was losing tsm the early game. I personally think that the tsm players just struggle to deal with pressure of playing at worlds so there's a very good chance that regular season sven on c9 will out perform worlds tsm sven.
Miror B (NA)
: They'll also refer to it as the "Deficio rule", to try and sway as much suspicion off bjerg as possible.
> [{quoted}](name=Mye,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=t39uga5c,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2017-11-28T16:42:33.674+0000) > > They'll also refer to it as the "Deficio rule", to try and sway as much suspicion off bjerg as possible. The rule change was mostly about the mass exodus of korean players to China. It had little to do with NA and literally nothing to do with bjerg as he was already a resident by the time the rule change happened. Before the rule change happened you could have had samsung white reform as an all chinese team which is what forced riot to act. Most of the korean pros have returned to korea so it's unlikely they're going to change it again.
: 2018 NA LCS Rosters thoughts?
I think almost every roster patched some of the major holes they had with imported players. Starting with TSM.. I guess it was my understanding that pretty much every TSM player has said many many times that they though sven was too nice. To me this means he wasn't giving enough push back to say what he wanted to do and was instead was just following the orders of the rest of the team. I always thought the most impressive thing from mike was his after game interviews. The guy is a very calm, collected and articulated speaker. Most young players are either scared shitless to do anything or dardoch level of cockyness. He is by far the most untested element of the new TSM roster, but I have hope for him. Doublelift and bjerg both commented that biofrost was completely silent in games and it was a huge problem for the team. I think mithy was a really good pick up for a more vocal support player. I don't think sven is a straight upgrade over dlift, but sven has far less baggage with him. Dlift does amazing things and terrible things and you aren't always quite sure which to expect at any given time. I think sven is closer in line with sneaky and stixxay in that they're consistently good adcs even if they don't have as many wtf moments for good or bad. I think TSM stays #1. I give #2 to team liquid. They took the core of imt in xmithie, pob and olleh then added doublelift and impact. I think this roster will be much better at playing around bot lane than tsm was. Bjerg and hauntzer took a lot of resources away from doublelift who is one of the best laners in NA. If you give doublelift a jungler like xmithie hovering around bot they will dominate lanes. Impact is an amazing top laner when left alone on an island. He plays the lane smart. #3 is clg It's essentially the same lineup but with reignover fixing the dumpster fire that was jungle. Aphro has re-signed yet and that would be a hit if he went elserwhere. #4 c9 I don't know their top laner and so that's a huge question mark to me. However, they've been hinting at bringing rush back. Their core players with rush in the jungle is always a roster you can't under estimate. I think 5-10 is a lot harder to say. Most of those rosters have weaknesses in my opinion. I think optic could have done better than lemon for support. The guy really needs to transition to coaching. Meteos has had commitment problems to lol in the past and I'm not sure 100 thieves will fix that. I also wonder what bot lane is left for them to take. Clutch is mostly team NV with the addition of febiven. It felt like most games Lira was having to drag his team kicking and screaming into a good mid game. I'm not sure if that will change even with the new mid/top laner. Golden Guardians just looks weak. I don't know why contractz left c9 for this. Flyquest has the possibility of being a solid middle of the pack team. Both of FQ's solo laners last season were pretty meh and both got upgraded. If echo fox gets huni that will be an interesting team. I think dardoch needs to stop getting more chances after he's burned so many bridges due to toxic behavior.
: > [{quoted}](name=anonymous119,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=AYGKUjLK,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-18T21:36:37.386+0000) > > I don't think riot liked the idea of cross esports advertising for lol and overwatch at the same time in the LA area. It's different for a team like c9 who's OWL team is in london. They wanted to build brands for each of the teams with out helping to build a brand for a competitors esport. > > I understand what riot did from a business point of view. It was a smart move. I dislike it immensely as an esport fan. NA was stale when too few teams were challenging that #1 spot and to lose the #2 team in NA is going to hurt. I'm still hopeful that one of the new organizations pick up the entire imt roster. From a business view, I look at it this way. LA has how many millions of people? Riot's studio holds how many people? I guess Overwatch is going to have a studio. How big will that be? Neither will make a dent in each other. There are enough people in LA for both. And when someone who is as ga ga as that guy is and clearly would be an asset, you don't let the fact he's also ga ga over other e sports too get in your way. Riot got snotty once before over certain streamers. They took it on the chin for that one and changed their minds. Let's hope they'll do the same.
> [{quoted}](name=BigBellBrute,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=AYGKUjLK,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-18T21:50:27.388+0000) > > From a business view, I look at it this way. LA has how many millions of people? Riot's studio holds how many people? I guess Overwatch is going to have a studio. How big will that be? Neither will make a dent in each other. There are enough people in LA for both. And when someone who is as ga ga as that guy is and clearly would be an asset, you don't let the fact he's also ga ga over other e sports too get in your way. Riot got snotty once before over certain streamers. They took it on the chin for that one and changed their minds. Let's hope they'll do the same. The esport fandom group is far smaller than the population of LA especially when you consider how small of a fraction of the player base of both lol and ow follow esports. I'd also assume the number of sponsors interested in esports is fairly small so both lol and ow are competing for them. I don't think you're taking OW seriously enough for how much it sees itself as the main competitor with lol for esports. It's up to individual teams to build their own brands right now. I'd assume in the franchised lol world of 2018 then riot is going to be much more active in trying to get people interested in the various teams. To me it makes perfect sense that they don't want to do a massive spot light on imt who by the way also happens to have an OW team a couple miles from riot's studios.
: > [{quoted}](name=Maszii,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=AYGKUjLK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-18T20:55:39.425+0000) > > Get money or die trying make LCS It wasn't money with imt. they had their ducks in a row early and really carried much of Riot's water on the franchising thing. Riot is mad IMT is doing the streaming thing for their overwatch. Riot's shooting themselves in the foot. IMt's owner is ga ga over e sports He would be as big of an asset to have in lol as he would be in overwatch.
> [{quoted}](name=BigBellBrute,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=AYGKUjLK,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-10-18T21:02:32.084+0000) > > It wasn't money with imt. they had their ducks in a row early and really carried much of Riot's water on the franchising thing. Riot is mad IMT is doing the streaming thing for their overwatch. > Riot's shooting themselves in the foot. IMt's owner is ga ga over e sports He would be as big of an asset to have in lol as he would be in overwatch. I don't think riot liked the idea of cross esports advertising for lol and overwatch at the same time in the LA area. It's different for a team like c9 who's OWL team is in london. They wanted to build brands for each of the teams with out helping to build a brand for a competitors esport. I understand what riot did from a business point of view. It was a smart move. I dislike it immensely as an esport fan. NA was stale when too few teams were challenging that #1 spot and to lose the #2 team in NA is going to hurt. I'm still hopeful that one of the new organizations pick up the entire imt roster.
: I think I've missed any controversy around that... have there been any details about why that's happened? Seems like it doesn't have anything to do with the team's performance, if I understand the circumstances correctly.
> [{quoted}](name=KempyreanPirate,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ncp43XYA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-10-18T18:56:30.359+0000) > > I think I've missed any controversy around that... have there been any details about why that's happened? Seems like it doesn't have anything to do with the team's performance, if I understand the circumstances correctly. People were speculating that riot didn't like how heavily invested IMT was into the LA overwatch league team since that's on their door step. I understand where riot is coming from, but I'd be a lot happier if one of the new teams kept the current roster as is.
EsoEs (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=anonymous119,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ErLaeALY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-10-08T02:36:52.612+0000) > > Relic shield was changed a long long time ago to show as cs for the adc when the support uses a charge while killing a minion. Wait what? Does it also show on the support cs count?
> [{quoted}](name=EsoEs,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ErLaeALY,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-10-08T02:43:16.324+0000) > > Wait what? Does it also show on the support cs count? Yes.
EsoEs (NA)
: LoL Casters Need to Stop
Relic shield was changed a long long time ago to show as cs for the adc when the support uses a charge while killing a minion.
: Rewards for Pick'em
I think riot is worried that if they ever make the prizes too generous and then a worlds with no upsets happens. A popular reddit thread was suggesting just put the korean team in #1 in every group they're in and then randomize every thing else. Last worlds 3/4 teams in semifinals were koreans and the only reason more people didn't get every thing right was the crazy wildcard/h2k upsets. The amount of randomness is pretty massively diminished if you predict the korean team as #1 in every group, the korean team winning every quarter final, and the korean team winning every semi-final. The above scenario isn't any where near 100% likely, but it's too plausible of a scenario to justify any more generous rewards in my opinion. If a massive upset doesn't happen then you're going to have tens of thousands of people with a near perfect pick-em.
: What's the Connection between Competetive LOL and Moon Landings?
It's not every time some one disagrees with "some thing." It's every time people start spouting idiotic conspiracy theories about lol that don't hold up to the lightest scrutiny. It's completely valid to compare their paranoid delusions to the moon landing conspiracy. Players choke, teams throw and upsets happen, but that doesn't mean that the lcs is scripted.
: Top 20 happiness
It's really disappointing that when pray and gorilla were free agents that no western team were able to sign them. H2k was looking to get the duo together and that team would have been amazing. Tsm was trying to sign pray exclusively when dl was taking his hiatus. Obviously they're much better off as the #1 team out of korean, but as a huge pray fanboy I would have loved to see him in the lcs.
: SN LCS
In the past riot has had a page dedicated to promoting awareness of viewing parties. I'd email riot directly rather than posting on this sub-forum that only has ~20 active people on it.
MysterQ (NA)
: Even an uneducated blob like me thinks GroupD is the easiest chance for TSM. What group would be better lol?
> [{quoted}](name=MysterQ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=EhFIQIHT,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-09-17T20:01:56.447+0000) > > Even an uneducated blob like me thinks GroupD is the easiest chance for TSM. What group would be better lol? I suppose it depends on if your goal is to just get out of the group or if your goal is to get out in first place. I think it's easier to place 2nd in group A and B then it is to place 2nd in group D if that makes sense. This is still all assuming WE joins group D which is very likely to happen. I think edg #1 seed was more a fluke than an indication of how good of a team they are.
: Worlds Group Draw Thoughts
It seems really strange to me that all over reddit and lol forums people are calling group D easy. The entire panel of casters ranked WE as a better team than rng and edg despite having a really close loss in the semi finals. You throw in FW who went even with tsm at msi and won the tie breaker and it's by no means a free pass for tsm. I think misfits more, so than splyce from last years worlds, have the ability to take upset wins over every single team in that group, but not consistently enough that it's likely they will make it out of groups. I think it's extremely likely that WE takes first in group D and there's a pretty close to 50-50 on fw/tsm as the 2nd. I think tsm are honestly more likely to choke than fw in high pressure situations. The rampant optimism on these boards about tsm's chances seems unwarranted. If c9 or fnatic get matched into group A I think they're shit out of luck. I think this is probably the most clear cut group of #1 skt, #2 edg and I'm not expecting any upsets. I think my absolute favorite scenario for worlds is if fnc gets placed into group B. I think a lot of times the best lol is when teams of similar skill level are playing against each other. I think fnc, imt and gam are all really close to each other which will make 2nd in that group really fun to watch for. I think imt is more likely than tsm to make it out of the group stage. Group C can be fun if g2 shows up the tournament. I know people like to throw MSI around as a "hey they showed up on the international stage," but they really didn't. G2, especially during the group stage, looked absolutely awful, but some how every other teams looked equally as awful or worse. G2 is a really good team when they play to their potential and if they're in good shape and c9 gets thrown into this group it would be a fantastic group to watch. -edit If all of the main region 3rd teams make it through the gauntlet this is what the groups look like. I'm pretty sure Group d is closed to guaranteed to get WE since they have no chinese team, and all of the korean teams are already placed. A B C D EDG LZ G2 FW SKT IMT SSG MSF AHQ GAM RNG TSM C9 FNC HKA WE or A B C D EDG LZ G2 FW SKT IMT SSG MSF AHQ GAM RNG TSM FNC HKA C9 WE
: So, X amount of casters for this ? I mean Riot would need like 20 staff members as casters(for the English audience) if teams are literally 1-2 countries away right? Like traveling purposes ? This looks cool but honestly I think it'll be gone after a split/year from costs and such but who knows, it's EU, it wouldn't be EU if they didn't change their format after every split.(28 games in split, 18 games in a split, ties in series, 13 games in a split, 2 division for some reason and now this, what's next ?
> [{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=vbLXmzhR,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-09-08T07:11:37.714+0000) > > So, X amount of casters for this ? I mean Riot would need like 20 staff members as casters(for the English audience) if teams are literally 1-2 countries away right? Like traveling purposes ? > This looks cool but honestly I think it'll be gone after a split/year from costs and such but who knows, it's EU, it wouldn't be EU if they didn't change their format after every split.(28 games in split, 18 games in a split, ties in series, 13 games in a split, 2 division for some reason and now this, what's next ? I am not saying they will go down this route, but a fair number of the various asian league casters are not actually in the building with the players. The matches are streamed to them and they cast from the stream. This is done in a number of other esports as a way of cutting expenses.
Miror B (NA)
: From what I can gather, about 2/3rds of the way through the entire split (going to guess there'll only be one split per season) the 2 best teams of each region join 4 other teams who qualified via "play-in" (the play-in happening between all of the 3-4 place teams) in their own playoff kinda thing. It essentially means that playoffs are way longer, with the upside being that the regular season might be far shorter. Oh, and the bottom 2 teams from each group will go into an open qualifier meaning that EUCS just got a hell of a lot more exciting to watch if only from a quantity standpoint.
> [{quoted}](name=Mye,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=vbLXmzhR,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-09-08T01:41:06.338+0000) > > Oh, and the bottom 2 teams from each group will go into an open qualifier meaning that EUCS just got a hell of a lot more exciting to watch if only from a quantity standpoint. I don't think the match between the 23rd best team playing the 24th best team will be bad enough that it's entertaining. However, I've never been a fan of any region's CS matches. I think by far the most common reaction when a team doesn't know what to do is to do absolutely nothing. Teams that don't know how to play early game, mid game or late game just sit around and wait for some thing to happen.
Miror B (NA)
: Divide and Conquer: Franchising in EU is upon us
I personally am not a fan of this. There were only 4 teams I would watch in EU and usually only when they're playing each other. I have no interest in watching g2 vs mm and even less interest in watching g2 vs a team that's even worse than mm. The splitting of the EU lcs into 4 regions and diving the top teams between them means less watchable matches and more mostly garbage matches. Admittedly, I don't fully understand the greater league part of it. I think it's solely post season alternative to play offs.
: Who do you think will win the NA/EU Finals ?
The g2 vs misfits final is hard for me to get excited about. All of EU has been insanely inconsistent. I think there's a really good chance of msf, g2 or both not showing up for the finals. I think msf will choke and g2 will take it 3-0. In general I don't care who wins as long as we get a good match and I have pretty low expectations for this. I think imt vs tsm will be a fantastic match. Both teams are prioritizing similar picks and were each others main scrim partners during the semi finals. I think both teams pretty much know what the other team's strat will be ahead of time. I'm pretty sure we're going to see some juggermaw, mid lane adc, and cass priority. I think tsm will be the first time 3 consecutive split champion winning 3-2.
: EU LCS, Whats up with not posting Vods? (not just EU, many Vods missing)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL_uk_eFylw&index=31&list=PLPZ7h6L6LC7UcFZi1BYghMlKqZ1QSlvCw The matches you asked for. Go to youtube, lol esports, playlists and then find w/e region you're looking for and the matches are there pretty much the moment the game ends.
: I take it TSM is first based off Total Win/Loss
I understand why riot did this and in all honesty it's a more fair way of doing things. That being said; I really miss tie breakers and this system has pretty much gotten rid of them all together. Some of my absolute favorite lol matches were the end of the season tie breakers where so much mattered on one game winner take all.
: What happened to rush?
Apparently this is him. https://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=RRRR He never got picked up by any korean teams is the long and short story.
: TSM? More Like TSBM
It isn't so much about disrespecting the enemy team as it is having fun with each other. The game in question they weren't waiting for minions to kill the nexus. They were watching biofrost and trick 1vs1 each other. You can see the pings on the map and dl heading down to the fight. They ended up killing the nexus right before he died. They do stuff like this rather frequently if you listen to their shit tsm says content. The time they tried to convince hauntzer they were fountain diving then just watched him die, the time bjerg tried taliyah wall hauntzer into the fountain, there was a time when some one jumped into the fountain as the nexus was one hit away and then stopped damaging it to watch him die... etc
: > [{quoted}](name=PresidentPeewee,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=FEyJ8HfW,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-06-25T02:03:29.334+0000) > > You're throwing around best in NA pretty willy nilly. It has only been not quite half of the summer split and apparently cody sun and IMT are "undoubtedly" the best in NA, which I do not think is true. You can deny reality all you want. But the simple reality is they're on top of the standings right now having beaten CLG, Dig, TSM, and C9. So right now, they are indeed the best. Maybe next week they won't be. But now they are.
> [{quoted}](name=BigBellBrute,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=FEyJ8HfW,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-06-25T06:26:24.940+0000) > > You can deny reality all you want. But the simple reality is they're on top of the standings right now having beaten CLG, Dig, TSM, and C9. So right now, they are indeed the best. Maybe next week they won't be. But now they are. As an imt fan you should be painfully aware that it doesn't matter if you have a record setting win rate for the split if you are going to lose 0-3 during your first playoff game.
: Why do pros play on a delayed patch?
Riot has extremely frequently had to issue hotfixes to patches because of either gross imbalance or finding a new bug. The pro scene is by far the most visible showcase of LoL gameplay. Riot does not want people watching the potentially bugged and horribly imbalanced several days after a major new patch launches. I doubt the pros want to play on that either. Their system isn't perfect, but there are good reasons why they do it. There is a lot of weird off topic discussion about free unlocked accounts and smurf accounts. Yes it has been confirmed that you can request a fully unlocked level 30 account from riot that started off in diamond 3. However, pretty much every single pro has many many smurf accounts that they play on for various reasons. Wildturtle once had some thing like 5 of the top 7 accounts in challenger. I personally played against dyrus when he was a pro a fairly large number of times on a sub level 30 account he was streaming with.
: Piglet Shotcalling for TL
In general I'm in favor of replacing piglet, but he played very well in today's losses. His team full on collapsed beyond what any player could carry. When you look at the players TL has had and struggled to get to play well on the stage then I think it is more of a coach/infrastructure problem then a player problem. I would go as far as saying that if I ranked TL's problems then piglet would be pretty low on that list. RO looks lost, GG doesn't make plays, and their macro in general is non existent. Other teams have had success with a strong early game jungler essentially snowballing the game to where poor macro doesn't matter as much, but RO cannot seem to do that. I would replace him before piglet.
: TSM is only playing the Play-In Stage
It's annoying on a principle level that they judged h2k's world performance to be that much more significant than clg's msi performance. I like h2k a lot. I think prolly gives some of the best interviews of any coach, but let's be honest they had the easiest group draw and the easiest possible quarter final match up in possibly the history of worlds. Clg took down skt/rng the best teams in the worlds for their finalist msi appearance with out a fluke group/match up. To look at last year and go "na sucks they have to play against IWC to even prove they're worth a spot" while eu gets a guaranteed slot just seems really shitty.
Nolex (EUNE)
: Final 5th game bjergsen ult with syndra 2 players, why no remake?
They only do remakes for game breaking bugs. The separate server/patches on the tournament realm where the pros play tends to result in a surprising number of small bugs in most games. This is the clip of what happened. https://clips.twitch.tv/CleverEvilEggnogJKanStyle The syndra ult did not do full damage to both targets, but the orbs were split to who ever was closest between the two targets. Yes, this was a known bug that is fixed on live, but the tournament realm is played on an earlier patch where it isn't. However, the bug had essentially no impact on the game. Smoothie the person targeted by the ult would have died regardless of the bug and jensen lived through that entire fight not coming close to dying.
: I'm really confused what happened. The meta really didnt' shift out of his favor, so by all accounts he should still be at the same or similar standards as he was last split. I know they've reduced the amount of practice they typically put in, but the dropoff over the break seems a bit more extreme than it should have been.
> [{quoted}](name=coeurloyal,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=TveRWIH1,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-04-19T22:46:52.416+0000) > > I'm really confused what happened. The meta really didnt' shift out of his favor, so by all accounts he should still be at the same or similar standards as he was last split. I know they've reduced the amount of practice they typically put in, but the dropoff over the break seems a bit more extreme than it should have been. When tsm was playing well they invaded as a team and backed sven up. The problem now is that he's still invading when his solo laners are in no position to help him. It seems pretty clear cut to me so I have no idea why it hasn't been fixed yet.
: C9 vs TSM? Votes anyone?
I think sven is one of, if not the, most inconsistent players to have qualified for play offs. He has made so many many bad invades both during the regular season and in play offs where it put his team behind. If that isn't fixed that I hope tsm loses because on the world stage that level of poor play will be punished even harder. I think if sven gets his shit together tsm will take it 3-1. I think c9 will have little bit of play off jitters with the vast majority of their line up having never won an lcs split.
: Ok, and what about the TSM/TL situation with your " . I really just don't think 12+ teenagers/people in their early 20s are going to lie with perfect conviction for the two hours when their every single movement is being followed with a camera" Don't you think if TSM/TL did possibly say something or got caught cheating the refs would have stopped the game instead of letting the games/series continue? That was my last question/post as I have nothing more to say about this topic and need to hit the ol' dusty trail soon. I will however read your response to this as it was your post so I view it you should have the last word.
I'm sitting in 20 minute queues between games in mid diamond so this is just killing time to me. I don't believe the refs would have stopped the match. Riot usually builds their case internally then gives a brief synopsis of what happened and lists the penalties.
: " I think you're full of shit" - Calm down tiger no need for that. " Riot isn't stupid. They've listened to every single match from tsm played on that stage. They have recordings of every single match communication that team has ever played on stage. Why do you think they wouldn't notice a team acting different from normal ? " You do realize that each game there are referees on stage with the players that listens to every single game and they report anything they find could be cheating or against the rules and yet I don't recall them finding anything or hearing anything from a single player.
> [{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Vm78uLte,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-27T08:41:14.201+0000) > > " I think you're full of shit" - Calm down tiger no need for that. > > > " Riot isn't stupid. They've listened to every single match from tsm played on that stage. They have recordings of every single match communication that team has ever played on stage. Why do you think they wouldn't notice a team acting different from normal ? " > > You do realize that each game there are referees on stage with the players that listens to every single game and they report anything they find could be cheating or against the rules and yet I don't recall them finding anything or hearing anything from a single player. It used to be a lot more common a few years ago that the refs had to step in. Teams who were intentionally causing pauses at key moments so they could talk during the pause caused the rule change players aren't allowed to speak and were fined by the refs. Later on refs fined multiple teams for breaking that rule and talking during pauses. Refs caught and fined players looking at the big screen that doesn't have fog of war. Curse and dignitas colluded to split the prize money from a lol tournament and half ass their games against each other and got caught by riot pretty much right away.
: My point is that TL and TSM orgs are very close, and if this win gives a better seeding in the relegation tournament, it represents a win-win for both orgs. Like do you think if Envy were to ask Regi for doublelift's contract he would say yes? Highly unlikely. C9, TSM, and TL will always scratch each other's back with the big investors getting involved in LCS. And it would be so easy to throw perhaps as the mid laner. All you would have to do is change your mouse sensitivity or make a poor decision. It's not like in voice comms, teams are like "Yeah I want to win!" or "Darn we are losing!" It is usually very emotionless calls about mia's etc, like I don't understand why it would be hard to "act" in this situation. If there was match fixing it would have been discussed BEFORE they set foot on the premises. And just because Reginald says something in an interview does not mean that he actually believes it. He's an org owner, and he has to worry about his public image and the TSM brand image.
> [{quoted}](name=DestruX10N,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Vm78uLte,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-27T08:08:40.737+0000) > > My point is that TL and TSM orgs are very close, and if this win gives a better seeding in the relegation tournament, it represents a win-win for both orgs. Like do you think if Envy were to ask Regi for doublelift's contract he would say yes? Highly unlikely. C9, TSM, and TL will always scratch each other's back with the big investors getting involved in LCS. And it would be so easy to throw perhaps as the mid laner. All you would have to do is change your mouse sensitivity or make a poor decision. It's not like in voice comms, teams are like "Yeah I want to win!" or "Darn we are losing!" It is usually very emotionless calls about mia's etc, like I don't understand why it would be hard to "act" in this situation. If there was match fixing it would have been discussed BEFORE they set foot on the premises. And just because Reginald says something in an interview does not mean that he actually believes it. He's an org owner, and he has to worry about his public image and the TSM brand image. How is almost losing the first seed for the spring finals a win-win situation for tsm? How is TL scratching tsm's back? To repeat an earlier argument, riot does mic check where they literally have people listen to every single moment of a voice communication from the entire time the teams are playing. I really just don't think 12+ teenagers/people in their early 20s are going to lie with perfect conviction for the two hours when their every single movement is being followed with a camera and every thing they say is being recorded. You say you don't see how it would be hard to act in those situations and I think that's the crux of the differences between us. I think you're full of it and that makes no sense to me that 10 players with no acting experience between them are going to fool literally millions of people scrutinizing their every movement. Riot isn't stupid. They've listened to every single match from tsm played on that stage. They have recordings of every single match communication that team has ever played on stage. Why do you think they wouldn't notice a team acting different from normal?
: If there was going to be match fixing I highly doubt it would be discussed during the match. Additionally, it wouldn't require everyone on TSM to participate, maybe just one or two members performing poorly. OP was just wondering if there was going to be an investigation; no where do I see him "jumping to conspiracy theories" when there's a very possible conflict of interests.
> [{quoted}](name=DestruX10N,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=Vm78uLte,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-03-27T07:06:58.115+0000) > > If there was going to be match fixing I highly doubt it would be discussed during the match. Additionally, it wouldn't require everyone on TSM to participate, maybe just one or two members performing poorly. OP was just wondering if there was going to be an investigation; no where do I see him "jumping to conspiracy theories" when there's a very possible conflict of interests. I sincerely doubt riot wouldn't notice some thing was wrong listening to 2+ hours of a teams voice communications if they were sandbagging to lose on purpose or with the cameras following them around for every single moment after they stepped on riot property. How many pro players are also professional actors. I don't even buy into the conflict of interest. Doublelift was being paid to sit on tsm's bench getting rusty from only playing solo queue. Reginald gave an interview where he outlined why he was trading his contract because he thought the lack of time on stage would cause problems when he decided to return to pro play. If you saw his first days on stage then you'd definitely see how right reginald was. I personally think it's conspiracy theory bullshit because it's applying a narrative with a complete lack of information. If you've followed tsm throughout the seasons then you'd know that their loss to TL was some thing that happens pretty much every single season when they throw to a bottom ranked team.
: Team liquid vs TSM investigation?
It was not at all uncharacteristic of tsm. The other team they lost to was echo fox was of similar standing to TL. Tsm had an extremely close series against NV the team below TL. Literally multiple riot employees are listening in on the voice coms for the entire match. The loss from tsm almost cost them their first seed going into playoffs. Tsm's coach has strong words about this topic before the match even started explaining that it's among the worst feelings to lose to former teamates. Please think things through before jumping to conspiracy theories.
: Who do you think deserves the ALL 1st - 2nd - 3rd winners ?
It seems strange to have so few players from the currently #1 ranked team on your first team. I realize there are a lot of strong individual game performances, but if they aren't able to consistently convert leads into game wins then it doesn't mean as much. 1st team top: hauntzer/tsm jng: meteos/p1 mid: bjergsen/tsm Adc: arrow/p1 support:biofrost/tsm 2nd team Top: impact/c9 jungle: Dardoch/imt Mid: Jensen/c9 Bot: Sneaky/c9 Support: Stunt/p1 3rd team Top: Zig/p1 Jungle: Contractz/c9 Mid: Ryu/p1 Bot: Wildturtle/tsm Support: Aphromoo/clg Impact was godlike at the start of the season and a lot of his current stats are inflated from this. I feel Hauntzer is the stronger and more consistent top laner right now. Meteos is a breath of fresh air in NA from the constant "carry hard or feed hard" jungle style that has been popular in NA this season. I realize the overwhelming number of people I put are from 3 teams, but I also feel those teams are unquestionably the best in NA.
: WTH happened to locodoco?
Loco has never been well respected by the players that he worked with, problem persisted through multiple teams, so he ran into constant problems with failing to be an authority figure. Right now he's coaching a challenger team.
MrHaZeYo (NA)
: I don't get why P1 would give up there good Supp just to help TL lol.
> [{quoted}](name=MrHaZeYo,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=rsI5kthl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-08T22:08:36.534+0000) > > I don't get why P1 would give up there good Supp just to help TL lol. There was drama behind the scenes in P1 where adrian didn't want to play with inori. I'm guessing this was a "one of us has to go" moment and p1 decided to stick with inori. It isn't about helping TL; they just benefited from the timing.
Łulu (NA)
: 7.3 sure took a toll on C9
I personally think it showed how much they were relying on impact to be a playmaker. In all of the games they lost, and the game he was subbed, there was a clear lack of pressure from the top lane. Impact was known as the guy who not only forced jungler pressure top but would even still gain advantages while in the 1vs2. This weekend he was straight up not looking great in the 1vs1 let alone forcing pressure top.
: Welp. xPeke's finally outta bot lane. Origen's 2017 roster doesn't look that promising, though.
It's been commented on in the past that the bottom teams have a much harder time recruiting talent because pro players don't ever want to risk the possibility of being relegated. This og roster looks far better then what I was expecting looking at what players hadn't been signed yet. However, in my opinion OG has never had a roster problem. They've always had the talent to do better then their record showed. Their problem was always in coaching and staff. I think this is a solid middle of the pack team if peke can manage shot calling korean players.
Kinjishi (NA)
: What domestic mid-laners are improving? (Bjerg, Froggen, Jensen, and a few others are imports). Pobelter has always been fun to watch and is a NA player, but he's the only domestic NA mid that is fun to watch.
> [{quoted}](name=Yasu Yoru,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=UXt6hxh6,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-12-17T03:25:53.506+0000) > > What domestic mid-laners are improving? (Bjerg, Froggen, Jensen, and a few others are imports). Pobelter has always been fun to watch and is a NA player, but he's the only domestic NA mid that is fun to watch. I recognized that by far mid lane is the most imported slot in our region. People who watched NA LCS pre-bjergson should remember how bad our mid lane game play was. You had people like shiptur who had an insane KDA because he never did any thing except wave clear and afk at turret for 20 minutes before taking 0 risks in team fights. Then you had the exact opposite in Reginald where he would suicidially make plays that he hoped would work out. It's harder to point to specific players, but I do think the mid lane as a whole improved dramatically.
: Na lcs is killing the game?
I strongly disagree. To me the import/international players forced the domestic players to improve to compete. I think Huni coming to NA was the best thing to ever happen to the NA LCS. Our top lane was an unbelievable shit show before huni started man handling people making them improve. Bjergson with mid is a little questionable because it seems to be the #1 imported slot for the region, but I do think directly after he transferred we saw improvements in the domestic mid laners.
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