Rioter Comments
: Because if it ends in failure like all the assassin reworks did they've reverted now except for Katarina's, it'll get her on a rework schedule quicker
> [{quoted}](name=2nd Chance,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=pcPqQArR,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-14T21:57:12.116+0000) > > Because if it ends in failure like all the assassin reworks did they've reverted now except for Katarina's, it'll get her on a rework schedule quicker You make a great point but I also would like to play my fav LoL champ ya know? :c
: Small Diana Gameplay changes coming to PBE
Passive changes are just...bad. Losing out on mana regen, and attack speed, and compensated with...20 more base mana? Not an equal change at all. Damage nerf only hurts our assassination, don't see why this was necessary Revert this pls. Q could be more interactive with the rest of the kit but instead it's QoL change so that's w.e E is still just a move used ONLY after pressing R, don't know why there isn't a bonus effect that's actually viable for our character in there yet but whatever. That R nerf is gonna fucking kill us in 1v1s and teamfights. 0.5 seconds is A LOT OF TIME for opponents to do...anything. Very not good. Please don't put this on live.
: > [{quoted}](name=aqours fanboy,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=pcPqQArR,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-14T21:31:48.981+0000) > > I'm well aware her kit isn't healthy, and as such why she can never be buffed as she would be incredibly broken in the meta. > > *HOWEVER*, her place right now is average AT BEST; her kit being toxic balances out with her blatant weaknesses, and as such is in a state where she should not be buffed or nerfed. > > Why do they feel to make her diving ability and laning phase worse when she is already bad? Her kit remains the same playstyle, yet she is a worse diver and a worse laner now because of it. > > It doesn't make any sense. I would honestly post your concerns in the Dev Corner thread about this. By what I could see, most people share your discontent with the proposed changes.
> [{quoted}](name=Dokueki Kenshin,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=pcPqQArR,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-14T21:36:07.656+0000) > > I would honestly post your concerns in the Dev Corner thread about this. By what I could see, most people share your discontent with the proposed changes. Link?
: Dianas kit is cancer. Its either weak af or is just an insta one shot with cc and shielding
> [{quoted}](name=ChrisBrownze,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=pcPqQArR,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-14T21:13:27.866+0000) > > Dianas kit is cancer. Its either weak af or is just an insta one shot with cc and shielding I'm well aware her kit isn't healthy, and as such why she can never be buffed as she would be incredibly broken in the meta. *HOWEVER*, her place right now is average AT BEST; her kit being toxic balances out with her blatant weaknesses, and as such is in a state where she should not be buffed or nerfed. Why do they feel to make her diving ability and laning phase worse when she is already bad? Her kit remains the same playstyle, yet she is a worse diver and a worse laner now because of it. It doesn't make any sense.
Rioter Comments
: The vote for a 2020 VGU is up
{{champion:131}} {{champion:89}} This year ain't our year, and next year ain't our year, but the year after that? *HELL YEAH!~*
: {{champion:80}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:80}} NO!!!
> [{quoted}](name=Percentages,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=83XE2Y4u,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-01-23T07:49:48.803+0000) > > {{champion:80}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:80}} NO!!! Mount Targon get no love gang is always accepting new members! ;-;
Rioter Comments
: Targon - Where's the love?
The day Mount Targon gets a cinematic is the day I get Challenger. That shit is NEVER gonna happen :/
: > [{quoted}](name=aqours fanboy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R9jYqY41,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-01-03T20:50:11.680+0000) > > Almost like they are intended to get in and out by design. > > Champions that can only go in (i.e: Wukong, Diana) suck dick because they can't get out and they are countered by just being tanky/having resistances. > > So let's not, shall we? No let’s. The assassin class in general is just aids. What is the counterplay to “zed dives behind my entire fucking team, presses r. Misses his q, spins (which isn’t dodgeable at this point) auto attack ignite, and then TELEPORTS BACK TO SAFETY, with zero reprocutions”? Oh I suppose I missplayed by existing in a world where zed is a thing.
The counterplay is having your summoners up, having items that help to counter champions such as Zed directly ({{item:3157}}), or if you cannot build them, you stand with your protectors (tanks, supports that can heal or that have items such as {{item:3109}} , {{item:3190}} , {{item:3107}} , etc.) that have the stats/kit to mitgate/prevent Zed from fulfilling his objective of killing a priority target. Assassins are designed to be pick champions, punishing ill-advised positioning on the map and in the fight. I am not understanding why an assassin expunges their whole kit to risk themselves on killing a target that's mis-positioned from the team that is usually a ranged champ. Without this class, priority targets like ADCs don't have much to fear in terms of dying, as nobody else has the movement options to safely get in, deal damage, and get out without going through the front-line. QQing just because you keep dying to an assassin isn't a good reason for a class to be aids.
: Can we mother fucking stop giving assassins 17 million escapes?
Almost like they are intended to get in and out by design. Champions that can only go in (i.e: Wukong, Diana) suck dick because they can't get out and they are countered by just being tanky/having resistances. So let's not, shall we?
: Assassins shouldn't get to destroy an ADC while being un-targetable, ever. That's the definition of not bringing any risk to the table and playing a skill-less champion. I play Katarina and when I want to get kills, I need to pull off an entire combo chain including the ultimate in many cases in order to land a kill. All the while where the opponent gets to either run away from my ult or interrupt it. The bot laners can also gang up on me while I attack them should I choose to roam. No such drawbacks apply to Zed who brings no real risk to his executes.
Zed has to run in range of his ult, and he also probably needs to get some damage off before ulting unless he's stupid fed. ADC has plenty of opportunity to run, hit him from their range, use any abilities or summoners, etc.
: I had no idea monkeys came with free stopwatches. Also, let's build armour on adc's in order to survive that un-avoidable ultimate.
Alright some things for you: One - Assassins should tend to destroy ADCs, as I feel it is their job to do away with that set of champions in a quick manner (and if they don't have the damage, ADCs like Vayne fucking laugh in your face as you suffer) Two - An ADC that is alone should 9/10 times lose to an assassin that gets the jump on them. it is what it is at that point Three - If you are near someone with support/shielding/healing-esque type shit, no assassin, let alone Zed, should even threaten you. So yeah. ADCs don't need armor. Supports (and maybe tanks?) just need to use the items that Riot has blessed them with.
: > [{quoted}](name=aqours fanboy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKJYbOEH,comment-id=000b00010001,timestamp=2018-12-28T03:54:56.760+0000) > > Ok so first off. Seven downvotes? These boards are a pure travesty. > > Secondly, I'll have to say right now Zed cannot solo a jugg like Darius unless Zed is extremely ahead AND Darius is extremely bad. > > Thirdly, Zed is NOT a tanky champion. At all. He's absolute waste in late game because by now everyone is either tanky witth armor or full to the brim with support items that are a direct hindrance to Zed. > > Fourth, counterplay? Well: > > Redemption > Locket > Knights Vow > A 600 g item > A rune that gives said 600 g item for free > Zhonyas > Shields in general > Supports in general > > Not to mention how nerfed this champion has gotten since his release. Duskblade was a crutch that gave this champ spotlight solely due to the fact that it was an overtuned, overpowered item that. > > This champion isn't good. If you complain that he stomps you, I'm sorry to say, but you just might be garbage at the game. The Immy real counterplay here is Zhonyas which is only good on AP based champs. Let's talk about listing 'supports' as a counterplay in this case however. The top tier meta supports (Thresh, Pyke, Brand, Alistar) can't do shit against Zed the moment he casts his ultimate and kills your ADC with the hit which follows. Their attacks don't work on his shadows. The only supports which help in a counterplay are those who give out a lot of shield or one like Bard who can induce stasis. The only such top-tier viable champion who can help counterplay Zed right now is Morgana. Most other shielders are squishy to the point where it's a free double kill for Zed.
I didn't even list all the champion specific counterplay he has, using defensive runes, not dying to him like a monkey, etc. Fact is there's so much that prevents Zed from being effective as an assassin compared to almost every other assassin not named Ekko that can burst you down in less than 2 seconds. And in terms of support: They have so many items that offer shielding, health, tankiness for themselves AND their AD Carry, to the point where there shouldn't even be any danger. My point still stands. People just suck balls at this game so they complain about the champion instead of realizing how to play optimally.
: > [{quoted}](name=aqours fanboy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKJYbOEH,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-12-27T15:27:44.948+0000) > > Zed also is just in a terrible state where he sucks absolute dick. > > Too much counterplay to him exists in the game, and he can't even reliably carry even when he gets kills. > > He's become a low elo champ because at lower levels people are absolute trash at the game. Name the counterplays. Zed solos juggernauts such as Darius and tanks like Tahm late game and you guys cry about how weak he is. You either name the weak aspects of Zed or learn to never be taken seriously when your favourite assassin can 1v1 bruisers with ease.
Ok so first off. Seven downvotes? These boards are a pure travesty. Secondly, I'll have to say right now Zed cannot solo a jugg like Darius unless Zed is extremely ahead AND Darius is extremely bad. Thirdly, Zed is NOT a tanky champion. At all. He's absolute waste in late game because by now everyone is either tanky witth armor or full to the brim with support items that are a direct hindrance to Zed. Fourth, counterplay? Well: Redemption Locket Knights Vow A 600 g item A rune that gives said 600 g item for free Zhonyas Shields in general Supports in general Not to mention how nerfed this champion has gotten since his release. Duskblade was a crutch that gave this champ spotlight solely due to the fact that it was an overtuned, overpowered item that. This champion isn't good. If you complain that he stomps you, I'm sorry to say, but you just might be garbage at the game.
: I love people who say a strong champion like zed is weak while....
Zed also is just in a terrible state where he sucks absolute dick. Too much counterplay to him exists in the game, and he can't even reliably carry even when he gets kills. He's become a low elo champ because at lower levels people are absolute trash at the game.
: Identifying Diana's kit's problems
I am all for making Diana more of a bruiser than an assassin if it means I can continue to use Phase Rush without backlash.
Rioter Comments
Ætheist (NA)
: "Win 3 games where you placed at least 8 wards in each game."
Dude it is extremely easy to ward eight times per game, winning seems to be the only thing here.
Carralar (EUW)
: Yasuo is since 51 patches one of the MOST BANNED champions
People don't know how to fight him or fail to understand he's a scaling champion. It's wild that in 2018 a full build Yasuo can 1v3 and people baby rage like as if he isn't meant to do that in the first place. Ridiculous, indeed.
: Love getting "outplayed by a Zed omegalulz"
If that's all it took then you fucked up hella bad and you deserve that.
: After 4 years I have learned the boards are correct more than Riot when it comes to balance
Rioter Comments
: This discussion is NOT over! Comparing all possible rune paths, Sorcery is the one that sucks the most. AD champions have everything now. AP no assassins champions are being gutted till oblivion.
Because having transcendance isn't enough CDR am i right boys also sorc is not the worst, that goes to precision
: Can you guys stop giving AD all the good stuff?
"Really Riot? What the hell are you thinking? We mages need that rune, and not all can just go into Domination willy nilly because that tree is not suited for them unless they are the likes of Diana or whatever." Oh this is 110% incorrect. Not the Diana thing, she'll LOVE this fucking rune, I'm glad it's there, but I can assure you many mages benefit from domination secondary. Hell, primary dom on mages isn't exactly uncommon either.
: > [{quoted}](name=We Love Heresy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z6nw2GUz,comment-id=001c00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-08T04:17:51.396+0000) > > Seeker's is, without any debate, the best and most efficient armor item in this game, it was only seconded by pre-nerf Ninja Tabi. Only if you farm up the passive, which again, is hard to do like I already said and no, it really is not. Zed just melts through it like as if you didn't have any armor in the first place. > > Also, Zed's combo is actually not as hard to dodge, you just need good positioning and not to be in a choke point where you have limited movement. As a ranged you definitely have an easier time avoiding it unless you're in melee range (for....some reason?) Again, it's actually pretty hard. Just like going against a Blitzcrank, I move around a lot but he still manages to hit them. And as a ranged, if I'm constantly moving around, I can't farm as much and then if I use my spells not wisely to farm, I'll run oom and that's not what I want. > > Also eating one Zed Q >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eating WEQ elec. Not too sure why that sentence needed to even be said, by itself one Q or two should not chunk. LOL. One Q does chunk. Nice try bud. > > Also ALSO the fact you don't count that blantant weakness as a counterplay proves you refuse to understand the matchup. Like...Zed needs W to maximize damage. He won't do well in lane if he cannot constantly get that damage. 24 seconds is like...EONS to do damage to him and pressure him off the wave. I'm not sure why you can't understand that. I just believe it. So what if he misses a W? We can't do much to him in that time span because 1) he's already a level or two up because he was able to farm when we couldn't, and 2) our spells barely poke him at all early. Mainly just poke to get him to back off the CS for a bit then it's back to avoiding his stupid kit. I understand the match up just fine. Zed just doesn't have weaknesses or counterplay.
You mean to tell me in 22 seconds you can't do a damn thing to Zed. Twenty-two seconds. I'm just...what?... Your laning just seems so subpar if you struggle with keeping CS up with a Zed.
: > [{quoted}](name=We Love Heresy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z6nw2GUz,comment-id=001c000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-08T02:07:19.805+0000) > > First it isn't counterplay, now it's bad counterplay? > > Zed's W has 24 sec CD rank 1. A window to exploit. COUNTERPLAY. Then we get a fucking Q to the face. No thanks. > Zed must hit both Qs and E to proc electrocute (SAFELY, I might add. He can still blink shadows and auto but that's more aggro). If you know this, you can be aware and be ready to dodge. COUNTERPLAY. Not so easy to dodge mind you. > Seeker's is viable on every fucking mage, as is Hourglass, as is Stopwatch (if you can afford to use the Inspiration tree). This isn't counterplay but it is a countermeasure. Seeker's sucks, as you have to farm to get the full stats, which can be hard with Zed poking you in the face, and even then a full Zhonya's barely does shit. He has his ult up more than you have the active, plus it delays our powerspike way more than rushing a Hex and Maw is for him. > > Zed has clear weaknesses that can be exploited, which means there is counterplay in the matchup. Downvote it, reject it, tilt over it. It's the clear fact. They are barely weaknesses at all, if they can even be called that. And I don't count them as counterplay. Aren't real facts to me.
> [{quoted}](name=SnugglePuggle94,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z6nw2GUz,comment-id=001c0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-08T02:21:14.445+0000) > > Seeker's sucks Seeker's is, without any debate, the best and most efficient armor item in this game, it was only seconded by pre-nerf Ninja Tabi. Also, Zed's combo is actually not as hard to dodge, you just need good positioning and not to be in a choke point where you have limited movement. As a ranged you definitely have an easier time avoiding it unless you're in melee range (for....some reason?) Also eating one Zed Q >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eating WEQ elec. Not too sure why that sentence needed to even be said, by itself one Q or two should not chunk. Also ALSO the fact you don't count that blantant weakness as a counterplay proves you refuse to understand the matchup. Like...Zed needs W to maximize damage. He won't do well in lane if he cannot constantly get that damage. 24 seconds is like...EONS to do damage to him and pressure him off the wave. I'm not sure why you can't understand that.
: I understand it just fine. Dodging isn't good counterplay.
First it isn't counterplay, now it's bad counterplay? Zed's W has 24 sec CD rank 1. A window to exploit. COUNTERPLAY. Zed must hit both Qs and E to proc electrocute (SAFELY, I might add. He can still blink shadows and auto but that's more aggro). If you know this, you can be aware and be ready to dodge. COUNTERPLAY. Seeker's is viable on every fucking mage, as is Hourglass, as is Stopwatch (if you can afford to use the Inspiration tree). This isn't counterplay but it is a countermeasure. Zed has clear weaknesses that can be exploited, which means there is counterplay in the matchup. Downvote it, reject it, tilt over it. It's the clear fact.
: > [{quoted}](name=We Love Heresy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z6nw2GUz,comment-id=001800000000,timestamp=2018-05-08T00:32:07.656+0000) > > "How does a mage waveclear as fast as Zed can?" > > For one, Zed will utilize his passive for last hitting much more than Q, if you position yourself off the wave, he shouldn't be able to hit both you and the wave; he will have to choose. Dodging Q on it's own is not difficult, and depending on your champion, you can punish him easily in both of these situations. Zed doesn't need to farm with his Q, he uses it to push the wave because Mages can't keep up with his waveclear You actually read the "How does a mage waveclear as fast as Zed can?" and then decided to answer an entirely different question Let me spell this out for you: Mages Don't Have More Waveclear Than Zed Before 3 Items The one exception to this rule is Aurelion Sol, but he can't even harass Zed in-lane while farming because Zed's movement speed +W let's him poke Sol down easily > "They run out of mana." > If you managed your mana poorly, yes, yes you will. That's not Zed's fault. That's your fault. Any champion that has tools to harass would exploit you, if this is the case. If you managed your mana PERIOD. Doran's ring literally JUST got nerfed and it even says in the patch notes why "We at Riot didn't want Mages waveclearing AND harassing opponents, we want them to choose between the two" Zed has no mana, therefore he can push the minion-wave infinitely using his Q and/or QW Oh look, Zed literally can't have less than 60 energy for over 30 seconds. Since Zed's Q has a lower cooldown earlygame than most mages' waveclear abilities, he can push the wave infinitely Mages can have less mana to contest with Zed's waveclear and Zed's Q out damages any mage ability until any mage has 3 finished items > "Stay under tower and try to farm." > Zed's pre 6 is VERY vulnerable. You play into his hands being passive. His W CD is 22 seconds, and he will be FISHING for that shit in lane. Positioning yourself correctly means you'll never eat an electrocute proc, and if he misses his combo and tries to blink back for the auto, step back and dump a load on him. After his shadow is gone, that's 20 seconds of free harass assuming you have the resources to do so. Don't be passive before 6, just be alert. Zed's pre-6 is vulnerable to other ASSASSINS because other ASSASSINS can do more damage than him before his level 6 MAGES cannot do more damage than Zed pre-6 "Positioning yourself correctly" means standing 600 feet away from minions and Zed because his shadow range is HUGE 20 seconds of "free harass" isn't "free harass" when Zed Q outdamages most mage abilities before 3 items > "Oh Zed reached level 6 first." > Again, your fault. Manage the lane better. Yes, my fault that I can't permanently push the wave because I have mana to actually manage while Zed's energy lets him permanently push the minion wave. Clearly my fault that I can't permanently push the minion wave /s > "Then just ulted and mangled the mage." > If you built {{item:3191}} and have kept the lane remotely healthy, Zed should not one shot. Again, Zed will FISH for that Electrocute. At 6 of he W's before ulting, you can waste your summoners if you REALLY THINK you won't survive. He has no way to reach you if you do so. If he saves W (most Zed's will), understand he will ult BEHIND. If you have CC, use it behind you. Otherwise, wait for him to re appear before you flash. Don't get hit with multiple Q's or E's in this scenario, you will die. I assume you already know that. Be weary for ignite, too. Electrocute + Serrated Dirk + Zed RQE = 100% -->5% health mage oh look + ignite = 0% health mage HMMMMM Also, CCing Zed doesn't stop the fact that he can instantly go back to his initial R shadow(being invincible to CC when he does so), W back towards the mage and then force the mage to back if the Zed hits so much as 2 Qs (which Zed will be nearly guaranteed because of his W shadow) This makes Zed have an even LARGER level + gold advantage > If you do that, he shouldn't get the kill. You're assuming that Mages have the same earlygame power that Zed has. Stop it. Mages don't do Zed-levels of damage in the earlygame > I think your frustrations (and the Boards) with Zed are due to the fact you feel so helpless, but in reality, ranged classes really are not. Most have at least some form of CC, and EVERY mage can harass him early. {{item:3191}} is the best armor item in the game, and it's 33% of the reason why Zed underperforms in games. If you are REALLY feeling scared, {{item:3047}} . Seeker's armguard makes mages unable to waveclear because they run out of MANA still. Ninja Tabi makes mages SLIGHTLY tankier towards Zed, but that's really only one Q or E worth of difference to Zed Not to mention that it cuts most Mages' damage in half if they don't take Sorcerer's shoes > To summarize: Harass early, figure out lane positioning, don't get electrocuted, save your {{summoner:4}} for when he re appears during R, understand your enemy laner. Summarizing poorly argued points does not make them any less poorly argued > Hope I helped, have a nice climb. You didn't help
Why are you focusing on waveclear as a mage if you aren't roaming? Your main priority should be harassing the enemy so THEY can't roam. Shoving the wave against a Zed seems mighty pointless. Also, Tabi isn't required at all, just if you actually can't fucking lane against, which you clearly can't. You didn't talk at all about how my points to deal with him in lane actually are applicable, and instead continue to bitch about the champion as if he's going to play the lane right every single time. You win vs Zed if he can't snowball. He can't snowball if he can't kill you or if he can't leave his lane. If you can't one shot the wave then why waste all your mana on JUST the wave? Prioritize hitting the champion. Zed is either gonna fish for his laner or shove and roam, if he wastes the former, good job, 100ish seconds without an ult early. The latter? HARASS HIM. Not sure what's poor about this, this is how you beat Zed. You don't get Electrocute'd. Whether you avoid it or not is entirely skill based.
: LOL. Nice one bro. That's not counterplay.
Dodging is a mechanical skill. Stopping him from effectively using his kit via champion knowledge = counterplay. I don't think you understand counterplay at all.
: Champs that counter Zed =/= counterplay The ability to move around Zed and stop him from having an effective kit via actual mechanical skill = counterplay Zhonya's hourglass takes longer to build than it takes Zed to get to level 6 Zhonya's also HAS to be rushed but it makes it so that Mages can't waveclear properly Zed has almost no counterplay The one thing that can actually stop Zed in his tracks is armor-stacking champs and champs who build tanky AF Mages do NOT build tanky AF so they'll always lose the lane Mages don't build Frozen mallet, and mallet isn't even good against a midgame Zed(since that's the only time when Frozen mallet would be finished) Seems like _someone_ is stretching to make Zed seem balanced somehow
Understanding what Zed can do, what he wants to do before level 6, and knowing how to deal with his ultimate = counterplay.
: "How does a mage waveclear as fast as Zed can?" For one, Zed will utilize his passive for last hitting much more than Q, if you position yourself off the wave, he shouldn't be able to hit both you and the wave; he will have to choose. Dodging Q on it's own is not difficult, and depending on your champion, you can punish him easily in both of these situations. "They run out of mana." If you managed your mana poorly, yes, yes you will. That's not Zed's fault. That's your fault. Any champion that has tools to harass would exploit you, if this is the case. "Stay under tower and try to farm." Zed's pre 6 is VERY vulnerable. You play into his hands being passive. His W CD is 22 seconds, and he will be FISHING for that shit in lane. Positioning yourself correctly means you'll never eat an electrocute proc, and if he misses his combo and tries to blink back for the auto, step back and dump a load on him. After his shadow is gone, that's 20 seconds of free harass assuming you have the resources to do so. Don't be passive before 6, just be alert. "Oh Zed reached level 6 first." Again, your fault. Manage the lane better. "Then just ulted and mangled the mage." If you built {{item:3191}} and have kept the lane remotely healthy, Zed should not one shot. Again, Zed will FISH for that Electrocute. At 6 of he W's before ulting, you can waste your summoners if you REALLY THINK you won't survive. He has no way to reach you if you do so. If he saves W (most Zed's will), understand he will ult BEHIND. If you have CC, use it behind you. Otherwise, wait for him to re appear before you flash. Don't get hit with multiple Q's or E's in this scenario, you will die. I assume you already know that. Be weary for ignite, too. If you do that, he shouldn't get the kill. I think your frustrations (and the Boards) with Zed are due to the fact you feel so helpless, but in reality, ranged classes really are not. Most have at least some form of CC, and EVERY mage can harass him early. {{item:3191}} is the best armor item in the game, and it's 33% of the reason why Zed underperforms in games. If you are REALLY feeling scared, {{item:3047}} . To summarize: Harass early, figure out lane positioning, don't get electrocuted, save your {{summoner:4}} for when he re appears during R, understand your enemy laner. Hope I helped, have a nice climb.
Also, dodging skillshots is one of the main differences between good and great players. I suggest you learn how to do so.
: Ok so then how does a mage waveclear as fast as Zed can? They can't because they run out of **_MANA_**? well that was one huge main counterplays of Zed... I wonder what Mages will do now? Maybe they'll stay under their tower and try to farm while aiming to build {{item:3191}} Oh, Zed reached level 6 before the mage and then just ulted and mangled their body under tower while living with 5HP due to {{item:3155}} + Nullifying-orb HMMMMm yes, so much "obvious counterplay" at work here "dodge the skillshots" also doesn't work as an argument for why Zed has "obvious counterplay" because then all skillshots should be insta-kills because "you can just dodge the skillshot bro, git gud" {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
"How does a mage waveclear as fast as Zed can?" For one, Zed will utilize his passive for last hitting much more than Q, if you position yourself off the wave, he shouldn't be able to hit both you and the wave; he will have to choose. Dodging Q on it's own is not difficult, and depending on your champion, you can punish him easily in both of these situations. "They run out of mana." If you managed your mana poorly, yes, yes you will. That's not Zed's fault. That's your fault. Any champion that has tools to harass would exploit you, if this is the case. "Stay under tower and try to farm." Zed's pre 6 is VERY vulnerable. You play into his hands being passive. His W CD is 22 seconds, and he will be FISHING for that shit in lane. Positioning yourself correctly means you'll never eat an electrocute proc, and if he misses his combo and tries to blink back for the auto, step back and dump a load on him. After his shadow is gone, that's 20 seconds of free harass assuming you have the resources to do so. Don't be passive before 6, just be alert. "Oh Zed reached level 6 first." Again, your fault. Manage the lane better. "Then just ulted and mangled the mage." If you built {{item:3191}} and have kept the lane remotely healthy, Zed should not one shot. Again, Zed will FISH for that Electrocute. At 6 of he W's before ulting, you can waste your summoners if you REALLY THINK you won't survive. He has no way to reach you if you do so. If he saves W (most Zed's will), understand he will ult BEHIND. If you have CC, use it behind you. Otherwise, wait for him to re appear before you flash. Don't get hit with multiple Q's or E's in this scenario, you will die. I assume you already know that. Be weary for ignite, too. If you do that, he shouldn't get the kill. I think your frustrations (and the Boards) with Zed are due to the fact you feel so helpless, but in reality, ranged classes really are not. Most have at least some form of CC, and EVERY mage can harass him early. {{item:3191}} is the best armor item in the game, and it's 33% of the reason why Zed underperforms in games. If you are REALLY feeling scared, {{item:3047}} . To summarize: Harass early, figure out lane positioning, don't get electrocuted, save your {{summoner:4}} for when he re appears during R, understand your enemy laner. Hope I helped, have a nice climb.
Merlinez (NA)
: Can we like stop indirectly buffing Zed?
Can we like stop directly whining about a champion that has obvious counterplay, and instead discuss methods to best him in lane? I'd like to actually have a reasonable discussion at some point.
: C9 Sneaky is at it again || SG Soraka
I'm putting a petition in for Blood Moon Diana.
: Meanwhile there are plenty of support mains that *want* shield/heal power to be nerfed because they knew overloading it was unnecessary, for example.
I don't deny Riot is targetting the wrong archetype if trying to help assassins, but: a) This change doesn't hurt mages that much. It's all overreactions and Boards angery circlejerk b) Anytime anyone gives valid points or at least offers the chance at a reasonable discussion, "lul downvoted theyre jus mad let them vent" and it kinda makes this whole gameplay board a 100% joke.
: I mean, if it were your champ/class, you'd want to voice your discontent. Is it so bad that players come to the boards when they're upset?
It is when the other end of the spectrum gets perma downvoted and it's literal whining instead of an actual discussion/dialogue.
: Zed in 8.10
It's amazing how much hate a champion with bounds of obvious counterplay gets. Feel bad for the mains. I really do.
Emo Twink (OCE)
: Zed, His Lack of Weaknesses, and Seeker's Armguard
His W is a 20+ CD. Don't get Electrocuted and it's a free lane.
: Why the new mana changes are not as bad as you think
I wish people would stop downvoting and start responding, I wanted a discussion of opinions, you know?
: > [{quoted}](name=We Love Heresy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c7adTzqw,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-04-24T16:10:16.431+0000) > > How so? What is horrible about creating interaction in the mid lane? > > An afk waveclear meta is hardly a meta worth playing. Cuz my karthus lost 500 mana. Thats like another 20 AP he lost at full build. I used to be able to hit 1400 AP late game glass cannon build. Now im lucky to get 800. They need to literally double ALL of karthuses ratios to make up for these losses that has come from years of AP redesign.
Karthus was very strong due to the changes, I feel this change does not gut him at all, as he still is a powerhouse the longer the game goes, and he still will be expending his mana pool in lane constantly. I feel this is just a personal gripe of being unable to have the stats your champion formerly had.
: Worried about spamming spells? **How about they increase cooldowns and mana costs instead** **Y'know... To make landing shit more important?** #Cause basically reducing nearly all the mages' base max mana by what? 25%? #IS PRETTY FUCKIN SHITTY. Also another indirect nerf to Malzahar and AA staff :/
Increasing costs and cooldowns would be a bad idea because it is exactly the same thing you are doing in this scenario without actively solving the problem. A Syndra still needs to be poking a melee in the early game. Increasing the mana cost and cooldown is no different to her than decreasing your base mana, as you will run OOM either way. At the end of the day, the issue this is attempting to solve is the uninteractivity in mid lane, and having a high mana cost doesn't make that uninteractivity go away. It would simply be a bigger problem as the game wore on, compared to just nerfing base mana and making mana changes all around. Also, Malzahar is a mid lane problem child BECAUSE of his uninteractive kit and Riot should take a good hard look at him.
: Except the changes are fucking horrible.
How so? What is horrible about creating interaction in the mid lane? An afk waveclear meta is hardly a meta worth playing.
Rioter Comments
: Except Zed's skillshots are completely made irrelevant once he has R. It's not a skillshot at point-blank range. You're just incompetent if you miss it. It's instant-cast, and at point blank. Now, sure, Zed has skill expression *before* he ults. And if he wants to maximize damage, he has to aim something. But he doesn't need to hit QE from both ghosts right now, he has enough damage to kill someone without doing more than landing *maybe* a second Q from him. I mean, post-6, Malzahar still has to aim his Q. Even after he ults, because his Q still has the same delay on it. Zed...Still has no delay on it.
Sorry, I mixed up his skills. I meant in regard to him w e w e w e w e w e w e w e the wave infinitely, not interacting with a laner, having a passive shield for no damn reason, and being a free kill for a jungler. A good Malz makes your champion i r r e l e v a n t
Phridolin (EUW)
: Malz has two dump spells who doesn't need skill at all: His point and click ult - which is easy countered like zed ult but you need an unnecessary item for it which delays your power spike unlike hourglass. And his ... W? which is also point and click and hits cruse the enemy with an isane amount of sustain dmg - nearly as toxic as Mordes overbuffed ultimate. Ofc a Zedplayer is salty, cause Zed player who are good and tryhard need actual skill - unlike Morde, Malz and Veigars.
I have no idea why this has 17 downvotes. It feels like literal ass having to use max effort to match a champion that just flops on the keyboard.
Warpes (NA)
: "Malzahar is a tryhard champ that people only pick when they want to win"
Malzahar is literally a cancer champion, who the fuck would rather play an auto q w r bot than a champion that actually has to hit skillshots?
GigglesO (NA)
: You play highly aggressive champions with lots of mobility and wave clear, ofc you haven't had to play extremely passive...
There are lanes Ekko and Diana have to play passive in order to abuse their advantages later. If you play champions that are weak early then they have no choice but to play passive, that's not the fault of damage that's the fault of the champion matchup. if you want passive matchup tho ekko in lb xd theres no aggro there
: 1-2 seconds? That's a pretty long fight for today's standard. Just earlier today, I got killed by a 1/9 elise in .17 seconds : ). Yep : ). 1/9 : ). .17 Seconds from that 1/9 Elise : ). This game is wonderful : ). *eye twitch* I agree, the game would feel much better if fights lasted longer than the duration of a blink. Plz Rito ._. Edit: I went back through the replay, and she was actually 1/6 at the time she killed me. I don't have a way of recording a replay atm without lag : ( but I can assure you death recap said 100% of the damage was from her in .17 seconds without being chunked prior : ). Interactive gameplay is so fun : ). Everything is just great : ). *more eye twitches for reliving that moment* ######No sarcasm, I do really like league even in it's broken state, but I just think it would be enjoyable to have decent length teamfights again. Edit 2: A lot of people don't believe me / want a replay. I can't atm, but I might be able to use someone elses computer to get one later. Will see what I can do.
if a 1/9 elise one shotted you then i assume you got full combo'd and considering items > kda in terms of 1v1ing if she has full ap and you have no mr that is completely feasible. zzz.
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