: > [{quoted}](name=ce2727,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LqVrQV2j,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-15T02:11:49.483+0000) > > Yes, and many other players have too... the first thing to go when you're tilted is your rationale. That is no one's fault but their own. Don't int.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LqVrQV2j,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-15T02:16:50.843+0000) > > That is no one's fault but their own. Don't int. I've done nothing but agree with that point of view since the start of the thread. Nobody has offered a reasonable counter-argument to simply informing players of the ban duration beforehand so these incidents never happen. People are downvoting my comments because I inted, not because I'm spewing nonsense.
: > [{quoted}](name=ce2727,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LqVrQV2j,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-15T02:00:03.493+0000) > > I'd bet that players who know about how the ban system works, learn it by by word of mouth, or visiting the forums like everyone reading this. I think it's safe to say that most people don't read fine print documents like the Terms of use. I was certainly aware that inting was against Riot's expectations. It's the 14 day punishment that I never heard about in all my time playing normals. You knew that it's against the rules, but you didn't know what the punishment was, so you figured you'd just go ahead and do it? {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LqVrQV2j,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-06-15T02:05:20.808+0000) > > You knew that it's against the rules, but you didn't know what the punishment was, so you figured you'd just go ahead and do it? > > {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}} Yes, and many other players have too... the first thing to go when you're tilted is your rationale.
zPity (NA)
: A penalty for one game is independent of your past and future behavior. It's simple, you broke the rules in your one game (since toxicity vs toxicity is clearly not allowed) and received a penalty. players will enjoy you being off the rift for 14 days p.s. don't get on your smurf either.
> [{quoted}](name=zPity,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LqVrQV2j,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-06-15T01:52:19.062+0000) > > A penalty for one game is independent of your past and future behavior. It's simple, you broke the rules in your one game (since toxicity vs toxicity is clearly not allowed) and received a penalty. > > players will enjoy you being off the rift for 14 days > > p.s. > > don't get on your smurf either. First part makes sense and I agree. Second part isn't necessarily true, I've done a lot more for the in-game community over the past ~5 years than I took away with my ban game.
: > [{quoted}](name=ce2727,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LqVrQV2j,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-06-15T01:32:30.373+0000) > > Well of course, but how is an ignorant player (such as myself, pre-ban) supposed to decide not to int for the first time, if they're not aware of the punishment? How about the [Terms of Use](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse) you agreed to when you signed up, which tells you to review the [Summoner's Code](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/featured/summoners-code), prominently featuring "Never feed intentionally and don't give up the fight!"?
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LqVrQV2j,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-15T01:51:09.030+0000) > > How about the [Terms of Use](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse) you agreed to when you signed up, which tells you to review the [Summoner's Code](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/featured/summoners-code), prominently featuring "Never feed intentionally and don't give up the fight!"? I'd bet that players who know about how the ban system works, learn it by by word of mouth, or visiting the forums like everyone reading this. I think it's safe to say that most people don't read fine print documents like the Terms of use. I was certainly aware that inting was against Riot's expectations. It's the 14 day punishment that I never heard about in all my time playing normals.
: Not even reading your post. > First offense intentional feeding - Why 14 days? Because you're allowed to intentionally feed in **zero** games. That's none. No games. Ignorance of the punishment is no excuse, you knew it was against the rules. **THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE STICKIED SO THAT EVERYONE CAN SEE THAT INTERS GET PUNISHED.**
> [{quoted}](name=GatekeeperTDS,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LqVrQV2j,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-06-15T01:42:21.656+0000) > > Not even reading your post. > > Because you're allowed to intentionally feed in **zero** games. That's none. No games. Ignorance of the punishment is no excuse, you knew it was against the rules. > > **THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE STICKIED SO THAT EVERYONE CAN SEE THAT INTERS GET PUNISHED.** I think you're right, the punishment for inting needs to be verbalized more by Riot. And yes, I did know it was against the rules (as most players do). However, I believe players that understand the 2 week punishment for first offense inting will never even consider it due to the severity. After that match I absolutely expected a ban, but I was truly stunned when it read "14 days". In my experiences with video games in general, gameplay related bans (other than exploits/cheating) are usually in the range of 1 to 7 days.
: To answer your questions directly before saying anything else; > 1) What do you think a justified ban for this scenario is? I'd say that the 14-day ban is justified here. The punishment ladder consists of two chat restriction tiers (10-game and 25-game) then two ban tiers (14-day and permanent), so it only makes sense that a gameplay-related offense receives a punishment that's actually appropriate. > 2) Should players who are 'new' to toxic behavior receive warnings before action is taken? In general, I'd say yes. But in this case; no. Players shouldn't need to be warned that deliberately sabotaging the match for their team and intentionally feeding isn't welcome behavior. If their offense was more modest and/or infrequent, like insulting players or low-key negativity, I'd consider a warning perfectly reasonable. But for egregious offenses like trolling or intentionally feeding, a warning should not be needed. --- Another issue that's brought up, albeit not presented as a question, is prior positive behavior being stacked against recent negative behavior. It's not a wholly uncommon argument, but, here's how I see it; Previous good behavior should not exempt players from punishment for breaking the rules. There's already a fair bit of leeway for players who aren't really bad (it takes quite a bit to reach the first chat restriction, outside of hardcore flaming), and egregious offenses (such as hate speech, int-feeding, trolling, etc.) should always take precedence over prior positive behavior. Because whatever previous positive behavior you've shown should only be factored in to your punishment as the expectation for how you should behave, not as a safety net for if your behavior falls under that line where it's no longer acceptable. If you're positive, sportsmanlike, and good-natured, then it's expected of you to keep being such, but that's about as far as it goes in the event that you deviate into negative, unsportsmanlike conduct. The 14-day ban is definitely meant to hurt; it's supposed to be a decisive punishment that warns players that ruining the game for other players through gameplay means (trolling, intentional feeding) won't be tolerated, no matter the reason, and it should give ample time to think about how you got there; what led you to misbehave, how you could've done better, and how you'll improve going forward.
> [{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LqVrQV2j,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-15T01:37:22.929+0000) > > To answer your questions directly before saying anything else; > > I'd say that the 14-day ban is justified here. The punishment ladder consists of two chat restriction tiers (10-game and 25-game) then two ban tiers (14-day and permanent), so it only makes sense that a gameplay-related offense receives a punishment that's actually appropriate. > > In general, I'd say yes. But in this case; no. Players shouldn't need to be warned that deliberately sabotaging the match for their team and intentionally feeding isn't welcome behavior. If their offense was more modest and/or infrequent, like insulting players or low-key negativity, I'd consider a warning perfectly reasonable. > > But for egregious offenses like trolling or intentionally feeding, a warning should not be needed. > > --- > > Another issue that's brought up, albeit not presented as a question, is prior positive behavior being stacked against recent negative behavior. It's not a wholly uncommon argument, but, here's how I see it; > > Previous good behavior should not exempt players from punishment for breaking the rules. There's already a fair bit of leeway for players who aren't really bad (it takes quite a bit to reach the first chat restriction, outside of hardcore flaming), and egregious offenses (such as hate speech, int-feeding, trolling, etc.) should always take precedence over prior positive behavior. > > Because whatever previous positive behavior you've shown should only be factored in to your punishment as the expectation for how you should behave, not as a safety net for if your behavior falls under that line where it's no longer acceptable. If you're positive, sportsmanlike, and good-natured, then it's expected of you to keep being such, but that's about as far as it goes in the event that you deviate into negative, unsportsmanlike conduct. > > The 14-day ban is definitely meant to hurt; it's supposed to be a decisive punishment that warns players that ruining the game for other players through gameplay means (trolling, intentional feeding) won't be tolerated, no matter the reason, and it should give ample time to think about how you got there; what led you to misbehave, how you could've done better, and how you'll improve going forward. I totally agree with your case about prior positive action being irrelevant. Perhaps, what I meant to convey is that I haven't historically been a toxic player, so an immediate 14 day ban for gameplay related behavior was more devastating than it needed to be to bring me back onto the right path.
: Do you need the threat of punishment to not act like an asshole?
> [{quoted}](name=insomniacjezz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LqVrQV2j,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-15T01:35:24.072+0000) > > Do you need the threat of punishment to not act like an asshole? People act in their own self interest, in this case, self interest was ruining Player X's experience. However, the effect of this that's overlooked by first time int'ers is how it impacts the other players in the match. Do you think a 24 hour ban and informational message would improve the system? I think having that information would stop most people in their tracks next time they considered it.
: It's _supposed_ to hurt. **Don't int.**
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LqVrQV2j,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-15T01:29:06.648+0000) > > It's _supposed_ to hurt. **Don't int.** Well of course, but how is an ignorant player (such as myself, pre-ban) supposed to decide not to int for the first time, if they're not aware of the punishment?
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ce2727

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